"grumpyoldlady
So?"
Well, you have to hand it to Dick Cheney, he is succinct. I don't know of anyone else who could piss off millions of people just by uttering one word. Now that's talent! Conversely, I would be willing to bet that if the Vice President suddenly clutched his chest and dropped dead (God willing) the vast majority of Americans would respond to the news with the exact same word. We, too, can be succinct."

Cheyney would have to actually have a heart to drop of a heart-attack. Maybe we should hope that his head just explodes spontaneously -- seems more likely.

Users NMBill and WTF claiming falsely

that muslims support bin laden is

a pretty bold charge .

It is a false charge. The only fans of Bin laden are the americans themselves. Who just can't seem to live without a war of their making somewhere in the world.

Muslims do not support that criminal.

To claim the opposite is hate speech designed to inflame and incite americans against muslims.

Somewhere there is someone that is actually interested in this topic that is being starved for information. I'm 58 years old, never had an abortion. I could get breast cancer thou and I certainly would not use that BS posted by Riverman.

" There is a Persian proverb that says (rhymes in farsi):
"Drop by drop, surges an ocean" … "

In Dinotopia, that was paraphrased to: "Even a a single-raindrop raises the sea"...

{And riverman -- you are rather an argument for the efficacy of selective-abortions (consider a liberal-arts education...).

Timothy McVey was evil also, but also off the topic here, moron.

To The Lorax:

This progressive board is part of the US. The US gives everyone the benefit of free speech.

Eat that cracker yourself.

I agree with Riverman. Abortion is evil.

Riverman

I think you would feel better if you understood the real influences that drive abortion as a reproductive choice. There is a bigger picture. You are just making everyone mad because this is not the topic for discussion.

Mr. Moore has made millions with his documentaries. If he really wants to help this country, he should spend those millions in housing the homeless or providing medical help to those unfortunate soldiers coming from the US war zones; open a website where we can send the money for a noble cause.
Mr. Moore does not have a clue about politics or least, offer genuine solution to our "terminal" state of the Union.

Yeah, it is too late for Mrs. Cheney...

If you want to really do something, Moore, get out there and stir up angst. Get the public's attention to take these criminals, and the swine Cheney out. Arrest them for crimes against humanity before they start another war with Iran and all hell breaks lose. So far speechs and wriings have done nothing to stop the insanity of this crimninal administration and Cheney has gotten away with murder and knows he doesn't have to answer to the press much less american soldiers and american tax payers. Lets' see if you still have the clout to get the ball rolling,Moore.

Funny how a well written article by Michael Moore about Dick Cheney, turned into an abortion issue. ~Riverman~ has accomplished his mission. I have a suspicion that Riverman is actually ~Dougwagner~ in disguise.

Riverman: One-in-six abortions end in miscarriage. These "acts of God" make him the biggest abortionist on the planet.

WAIT JUST A MINUTE! Darth Vader is NO Dick Cheney -even his lordship, Darth Vader had some scruples and was by no means a mouthy coward. Lord Vader LED his troops into battle himself; he did not fear the ravages of war and indeed was harmed bodily by warfare. Previous, to becoming a fallen Jedi, he was aka the "fearless" Jedi for his warrior performance on the battlefield. Pray tell, just what war, what battle in the military arena did Dick Cheney fight? NONE. He just plays at war, which, like Dubya, is why we are having such a hard time getting out of the Iraq mess.

Okay, after reading some other comments, please allow me to throw out, not a tirade I promise (for past tirades I didn't come back soon enough to take abuse I maybe possibly deserved, sorry btw), but about the abortion thing, I see it got thrown in here.

Okay. Just a minutes worth of comment on it, one paragraph.

Some people hate abortion and envision late-term murderous things, a terrible sin, murder. Worse case scenerio. But I have to say to them, imagine forcing a woman to have and hold and take CARE of a baby she would have been WILLING to do that to, and it's worse. It's worse. I really think that. I can't imagine having a late term abortion, for anything less than life-threatening, personally. I can't imagine giving a baby to a woman who would, for no good reason, be willing to do that to her own baby. Why would you want to? I wouldn't encourage someone like that to even hold a baby. But force her to have the baby? It's..not a good idea.

Sometimes I want to tell people, please, to stop with all this "life" worship abortion hate, and care more (or at all) about pain and suffering OF the living.

Hey CD Editors,
Can you do something about Riverman 101, please?
He is never on topic, always annoying, makes no sense, angers all the readers, and is obsessive about abortion and male-only voting. Please limit his posts to the ones which are at least on topic with the article. I'm tired of his daily garbage.

It's been so hard to watch this war and the bs all over it And that preacher being put down, this cycle.

"Play me that crazy preacher again, will you, about how maybe God, in all his infinite wisdom, may not exactly be blessing America these days. Is anyone surprised?"

Bless YOUR heart for even taking that one on, Mr Mike. Foreign people might think the US is damnable, minorities in this country might thing we're damnable, but even if seems like a lot of folks have been talking like that in their church in our nation, a cultural staple in their experience, forget it. What "they" actually think doesn't matter? It's been all to please poor white America who just can't stand the idea that anyone ELSE might even think that? It doesn't matter who or how many people might feel that way now, kill the messenger?

Yeah. And so it goes. Thank you for pieces of sanity you give us, right in the face of the crazies. Thank you.

I can see it now.

Reporter: "Mr. Cheney, according to polls, the American people are unhappy with the recent installation of Martial Law, the suspension of all elections, the nuclear wars, and mass migration to slave labor concentration camps."

Cheney: "So."

This monster often makes me think that David Icke might not be all that kooky. Cold blooded.
Maybe Dick can eat Riverman? They seem to be compatible in their distaste for democracy.

xi_people is right. 911 was executed from inside the White House and Bin Laden is dead. Both of these prepositions are clearly, easily, demonstrably true if you are not holding your hands over your eyes and repeating the brainwashing mantra you have been conditioned with over the last several years.

Only The (911) Truth Will Set You Free. The one and only way to end this war and change America to the path of Peace is to open your eyes and admit the awful truth about ourselves and the monstrous, greedy, heartless killers whom we allow to control our country and lie to us so we may reap the benefits of Monster Capitalism without having to face the terrible guilt associated with what we are tacitly and passively supporting.
You know it's true.

Riverman....go swim in another site, your posts are rambling and a needless distraction. Put it to rest please and post in another site better suited to your rants, starting with Fox or National Review.

Barack Obama has my vote iff he takes Dennis Kucinich, or Ralph Nader, or Michael Moore (or Bill Richardson?) as a running mate. It's a win-win-win solution for Progressives.

Most of the Bush regime's and the Neoconservatives' worst atrocities were ignored by major media until Mike had the balls to air them from whatever public platform was available to him. He's more important than most of us realize, and I hope he'll keep plugging away. In the near future, one of two scenarios is possible _ Mike's face will be on our money or stamps, or the US will no longer exist as an entity capable of printing either. So what if he's goofy and has a sense of humor? Same with Ben Franklin. He's trying to get a message out to a country where goofy gets attention.

Rail on, Mike, and thanks.

Hey there Michael Moore. I've encouraged you to do this before and I'll say it again. How about a docu-film on the god of America. This made-in-America plastic Jesus really does deserve some de-mystifying and de-construction. I neither subscribe to nor advocate an atheistic stance, but I join the majority who are disgusted by the projection of self-serving hateful men; the god they have fabricated serves their economic and power goals while eroding the credibility of beliefs more rational and constructive.

riverman101
you rail against abortion but use the victimization of innocent members of other animal species in your pleas.
That's proof we need more abortions. The less humans the better.

The Bible says so--just think of abortion as early homocide. Or think of wasting the Canaanites as late abortion.

Nader and McKinney are the best candidates. Gore would have been a crap president--he couldnt even win his home state.
Obama IS a better choice than McCain or Billary, but since Billary is poisoning the water so Obama cant win...

Disenfranchised obedience

Repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results is considered a form of insanity.
This philosophy is important to remember when considering the third party candidates for office during the 2008 elections. Real difference is necessary, change is slow and frequently opposed by those who benefit from the status quo and more often than not it takes individuals with the resolve to argue for reason so that educated change can occur.

The myth that it is the third party candidate who is always the spoiler, is contrary to the basic fairness doctrine of a democratic representative republic and ignores the fact that the media is controlling the debates, with little concern about the issues that matter to we the people.

Keep in mind that in democratic elections Those with the most votes win. Being that a majority of the American people are so disgusted with "politics" the real majority has demonstrate no confidence in the failed two party system. The winner of the past several presidential elections has been no confidence. The problem when a majority of the eligible registered voters don't even show up is that narrow elections are obviously easier to steal.

The despoilers of these United States in fact are the Democrats and their war party Republican clones, two identical stripes of corporate welfare pundits, amassing power and control to the benefit of the few at the expense of the many. They are the two party lap dogs of the corporations who also own the media. We are the people and we can force change, but it does require effort.

If we the people stuff the ballot boxes, the results will be undeniable. Exit polls showed that Gore won in 2000 and Kerry won in 2004, but by margins that were too close not to exploit. Gore would have won by large margins, had he run on the issues. Kerry would have won by large margins, had he run on the issues. Because they did not speak to the heart felt issues of environmental stewardship and ending corporate war profiteering, neither really deserved to win.

Corporate media also intentionally excludes third party candidates from any discussion of the issues, long before the debates even weigh into the race. Sanitized media coverage thus excluding alternate points of view from the process is more dangerous to democracy than a Nader run for office. The media is not sanitized, so you say. There are more 3rd party candidates than just Nader, who, it is also rumored, is not even seeking the green party nomination in 2008. There were even several Republican and Democrat candidates expressing more points of view than the corporate media myth of a two party system would allow, such as the candidates opposed to the illegal occupation of sovereign countries. Did you notice how they have been systematically denied any press coverage. Please third part despoilers is simply paying lip service to the denial that our country is being looted.

Issue cleansing is what we are "up against" when a corporate controlled media, and their look the other way apologist politicians lie to a lazy electorate base that can research the issues, should be asking politicians tough questions and needs to actively advocate, educate and vote for change. The choice is clear, we take back our lives, our air waves and our democracy or the same old lies will guarantee that our disenfranchised obedience will get another ten thousand children killed in our endless occupations for our addiction to oil.

Third party candidates represent a fair and reasonable alternative to the same old corruption. The corporate media myth makers just don't want you to know that electing a third party candidate is a fundamental democratic right.

I can not say that I am happy with the Democrat's performance. Because I am not. But, they are also fighting a losing battle in this country! It's been so dumbed down by right wing nut jobs (aka Republican talking heads) who flood the airwaves with their misinformation and venom. It's going to take a major overhaul to ever get this country straighten out from the mess the neo con Conservatives have made out of it. I still hear the same lies that Bush told to start this war spouted by the ignorant. Unfortunately, these people don't seem to know any better. Where would they find out different, when the MSM keeps the lies going daily.

But, when I go to the voting booth I will vote for a Democrat! Mostly because they are the least of the evils out there today. I will under no circumstances vote Republican! All voting for a third party candidate will do is put another Republican in office. SO WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE WHO ELSE IS THERE TO VOTE FOR?????? So I understand why Michael Moore supports Democrats! It's literally the only hope we have left!

Hey Riverman101, yeah you...

Try med prescription 102. It is clear 101 is not working at all.

I fart in your direction.

To all others, here: Riverman101 is living proof this type of "Christian" is descendent from monkeys: Monkey see, Monkey do - type sadly.

Although I'm sure Riverman(any number here) will argue the point.

Some people are annoyed by religious nutballs trying to blog on a Progressive site. It doesn't really bother me though. I actually find it quite amusing. After about 2 sentences I can see that there is a marked lack of education, particularly in the grammar department. Next comes the feminist / abortionist bitching and off-topic blather. Then comes the reference to He / Him ect and the religious fantasy world mind trip.
It's plain to see that the religious lack the intelligence necessary to manage their own life. They always have some other person do it for them. Afterwards, they mindlessly parrot whatever idiotic comments their great 'leader' has to say. When you call them on their bs, they always pull out some book. "My book is better than their book" they say.
The religious in this country are the greatest threat to our freedom. It's too bad there's not an on/off switch for these parrots.
"Squawk! Stop Abortion cause God says so!"
"Squawk! Men should be running the country not women."
"Squawk! Same sex marriage should be outlawed because it's not God's will!"
"Squawk! We have to censor television and the internet!"
Here's a cracker Polly. Now please shut up.

There's nothing wrong for those who believe in God to ask Him to bless America. We need all the blessings we can get, considering the pseudo-religious and atheists who are condoning the bloodshed in Iraq.

The man who would have ended the war was ignored, ridiculed, and kept from showing what he could do to help get us out of this mess.

God bless Ron Paul. Still my choice in the election.

So? This arrogance comes from the fact that Cheney has been in the Middle East setting up the Grand Finale for the world for the ultimate battle in The US War to Re-colonize the entire Middle East. Cheney was there in Saudi Arabia to stabilize oil supply in order to begin the attack on Syria and Iran.

Ultimately, the real enemies of the US and its European allies are Russia, China, and even India, too. To beat these societies back, Cheney has led us into a war to get control over declining world oil supplies. Re-colonizing countries that have seeped themselves out of direct control of the US was necessary per neocon plan.

So? Well, that's what it is all about.

Riverman:You are a plague on these blogs!!

TWO WORDS:

EDUCATION
MEDIA

"In the beginning there was the Word"

RiverMan101
Its obvious that we need to enforce MORE abortion. Obviously your mother should have aborted you before you had the opportunity to grow into an inferior, illogical biased female bashing bigot. Perhaps if women had more help with raising children, some would be willing to have more of them. And further, the article you refer to about Europe's population is about how the WHITE population is dropping. Its a fear mongering, racist piece about how Europe is being taken over by non-white, non-native Muslims and Africans. And furthermore, what's wrong with reducing the population and taking the strain off the world's recources? You're just mad cause a more qualified woman took the job you felt you were entitiled to when you were born with a penis.

"There is a fundamental struggle, and we should at least support the right thing, even if the mainstream media and society doesn't. That is why I am voting Nader."

There is a Persian proverb that says (rhymes in farsi):
"Drop by drop, surges an ocean" ...

someday The Story of Civilisation will tell it like it is (was).

"Such as why is the mastermind of the attack on the United States of America — Osama Bin Laden, still free, and why have we not been able to apprehend him?"

"Comments like this show that, even in protest, many Americans are still woefully ignorant about world events. To answer the poster's questions: ..."

Yes, also watch Farenheit 9/11.
George & Osama knew each other through family friendship when they were kids. Before the Al Queda "mastermind" went to prep school @ the Farm.

God blessus all? pur-leeze! The problem begins with this stupid childish idea that a god exists! Nothing will ever happen in the world while people like Dick Cheney and Michale Moore trot out god every ten seconds. If god existed then he either lets war happen, in which case he has the morality of dickhead cheney, or he cannot stop them, which makes him about as powerful at controlling the world as michael moore.

Let's stop trotting out the stone age notions and DO something.

"a logical person would look at these different reports and KNOW there is covering up.. then he would use some logic to try to see who may be telling the truth…"

Sheesh...another proto-typical 'male' obsessing over women's-issues/reproduction/sexuality AND 'their-Natural-inferiority' -- AND, misogynist-leanings re: his 'notable Logic' whilst only 'Logical _He's_' should get to use the Internet(s) -- in a 'Perfect-Future'?
[Do us all a big-favor -- apply your own 'logical-standards' to yourself, and then promptly-cancel with your ISP]

"Of course the draft is going to be reinstated, no doubt. Cheney and the lot are rallying the crew to attack Iran, which Israel will be happy to comply with, 9/6/2007 and such."

[Mike?]

The draft most-CERTAINLY will not be reinstated (we will be tapping-into the 'made desperate' of Mexico/C.A. for our 'neo' cannon-fodder & 'boots-on-ground' -- that Gen. Barnes quit rather than "cooperate-with by training" -- and they will have the 'carrot' of quasi-citizenship (like 35-million neo "guest workers" will) IF they survive 6+-years, and also the reduced combat-pay/Benefits our own 'poor-troops' now are stuck-with before having to pay-back any 'signing-bonus' when newly-crippled, themselves).

And, there will be NO 'attack on Iran' unless someone seriously-'goofs' (it cost billions and a lot of 'hard/secretive-Work' to arrange that mess in 1979 [much like the previous-one, in 1953] -- and Iran has been supported ever-since while being 'groomed' as a replacement-'enemy'/'threat'/Rationale to replace the once-same USSR/'commies' in an endless "GWofT").

[But 'Yes', Israel (future Capitol of the Western-world and carbon-taxing NWO-instrumentality -- while always its 'religious'/Mythos-Center) WILL be "very happy", indeed -- once it's Palestinians, now made so-numerous and 'walled-in/beaten-down', are allowed to henceforth work in newly-build/extra-'wall' Israeli-factory's (or, newly-pipelined [from Iraq & Syria-or-Lebanon] Haifa-refineries/'waterworks'?) as "the ME's neo Cooley slaves/prison-laborers"]

The most important difference between either "democrat" and McCain would be his or her judicial appointments. Not only to the Supreme Court, where two or more seats may become vacant, and a single Republican appointment could make Justice Kennedy irrelevant and solidify a conservative majority like this country has never seen, but to numerous other Article III positions. Judges nominated by democrats will differ significantly from those nominated by republicans.

This may or may not be a reason to vote for that party, but it is a truth that should be considered before voting for a third party.

Hank Fur and Aloysha,

Please don't despair. In fact, the Democratic Party has been taken over and changed for the better in the past fifty years. You may not remember, but the Democratic Party *used* to be the party of the Southern racists and bigots until Lyndon Johnson put Federal might behind the suppression of Jim Crow laws and annoyed the "Dixiecrats" enough that they deserted the party in favour of the Republicans, who've been held hostage by them ever since. It's not for nothing that Ronald Reagan used coded messages about "States' Rights" and busing to implement the Nixon "Southern Strategy" and the first Bush used Willie Horton to let the closet Klansmen know that he was on their side. The growth of the Republican Party has been in large part due to the Renaissance of racism, dressed up in fancy clothes these days, with think-tank talking points and cue cards.

The Republicans *still* use the "Southern Strategy" to win elections, by accusing John McCain of fathering a black child, while studiously avoiding the term "miscegenation" and the RNC campaign against Harold Ford, Jr. in Tennessee featured ads coyly suggesting that Ford was 'dating' white women.

And then there are the new Southern Strategy ploys of Bill Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro attacking Obama with the same old subtle, coded racist slurs, reminding us that Clinton was a Dixiecrat before he polished up his act as a "really nice guy."

YAY Michale Moore writes an article!

Hey ~Riverman~, would you please do me a favor? Write, "Kem Patrick is dead meat" 500 times and post it here, so we can read it and "WEAP". ___ BTW, I believe in breast feeding, big, medium or small, all women are wonderful. ___ Thanks Riverman.

To Cheney and others, GOD means Globalize Or Die. Those who help, get blessed (knighted) by the Queen, like Sir Bubbles Greenspan (thanks for trashing the economy Alan).

Other knights

Billy Graham - KBE (2001)

Bill Gates - KBE (2004)

General Colin Powell - KCB (1993)

General Wesley Clark - KBE (2000)

Rudolph W. Giuliani - KBE (2002)

George H. W. Bush - GCB (1993)

Ronald Reagan - GCB (1989)

General Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. - KCB (1993)

Future knights

GWB

Cheney

Rummie

I wonder what Bill Clinton did wrong, oh, Monica, sorry. the Queen is kind of touchy about that kind of thing. Divorce is fine though.

riverman

Every medical procedure includes a risk/benefit analysis that would apply to abortion also, but you posted a link about breast cancer that is really about abortion and that is disingenuous.

riverman can't help it. His preacher held his head under water too long during his baptismal ceremony down at the river. Poor guy.

Political parties may come and go but the National Interest is constant.
Occupations/wars are easier to continue than to end. 93 years, 11 months, 10 days until the end of Iraq occupation. Patience y'all, patience.

Gotta have more babies to fight World War III.

I object to more to the misrepresentation of the information and possible health consequences with biased information....

treefrog whether you like it not its a statistical reality that actuaries the world over know of. Your wikireality isn't the same as reality reality.

riverman

The link you posted is an antiabortion site and has little or nothing to do with preventing Breast cancer. This is disengenuious posting on your part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-breast_cancer_hypothesis

riverman101

The real reason to limit posting length to less then both volumes of the Urantia Book.

riverman, spamalot.

wow riverman I think your right. Its like picking heads or tales when either result leads to murder and greed. The question simply is which innocent deaths do you have more of a problem with.....innocent babies or innocent civilians/marines etc?
Crushed infant skulls - or - bombed shelters
severed limbs from teh abortionist - or - limbs blown off from land mines and bombs?

Vote anyway you want, just pick someone, anyone and then hold them accountable to the constitution. Or, go back and wait for another "so".

God Bless you Michael Moore. You should run for office. We need more Democrats like you in office. You are smart. You are caring. You are right. You stand up to power. You don't think you are perfect (and we know you are not - but you are pretty darn good).

Really. Run.

Hint: Help Al Franken get elected. It would be a good thing. And Al can lead the way for you to become Senator.

Michael Moore has it right. Again.

Cheney is perhaps the most blatant members of our current administration in his disregard for the what anyone thinks other than he. The man is evil.

Regarding the Democrats, we cannot make progress until we have an Administration that will work with Congress (or at least play fair) as opposed to thumbing its nose at Congress, the American people, and the rest of the world. That is why I support Obama.

As for God, do believe it's appropriate for those who believe in him to invoke his name. But I would not say "God Bless Us" or "God Damn Us". I would say "Κύριε ἐλέησον" (from the Greek) or "Kyrie eleison" which means "Lord have mercy on us". We will all ultimately come face to face with our God, and those who have not done what they can to help change America at this critical time will need all the mercy they can get.

Spoiler. Spoiler. Spoiler. It's anal, you know. Sure, Hillary is spoiler to Obama supporters. Obama is a spoiler to Hillary supporters. And oh, here in Vermont where we have FOUR major parties, the front runner to beat the Republican incumbent, is???? Whaddya know? Anthony Pollina of the Progressive Party. No, NOT a Democratic Party Candidate. A Progressive Party candidate. Imagine that!!! And you know what? The Democratic Party has no candidate. They are trying to arm twist Peter Galbraith (economist) to run as a Democrat. But of course, by the Democratic Party logic adhered to on this front for the Democratic Party, Peter Galbraith would be a spoiler! No? By the way, we just passed instant runoff voting in Vermont and the Republican governor is probably going going to let it become law without signing it. All of this came about about because Vermont doesn't call anyone who wants to run for any office "a spoiler". They welcome them into the democratic exercise. So those of you Democrats who think you are going to win the presidential election in November by bashing Nader and his supporters, start sweating. The more you blame Ralph and exhibit your hostility the more votes you will lose. Besides, you can't figure out which corporate backed war candidate you want.

All sensible, non-rigid political reformers, including Michael Moore, should cease invocations of 'God's Blessings,' or 'God Help Us' nostrums/fiats, whenever advocating what can only be in the end human-willed spiritual and political change.

Granted: Some kind of incomprehensible Creator arguably gave us struggling, confused humans Rise; but It, Whatever It Is, is obviously not any kind of God that magically intervenes at the behest of our ego presentiments, or our political outlookds, nor reliably in the exercise of our inner, day to day conscience, or personal needs, or standard, brain mis-circuited worldly actions toward one another.

While acknowledging a Transcending, Unknown Higher Design which initially created us, and so-far supports our confused, violent, and mostly-embarrassing life on Earth, Humanity's continued, mindless calls to God to solve humans' Earthly problems nevertheless are, and will always remain a step backward for us still monkey-like creatures - both as a practical world-organizational matter, and as anything meta-cognitive or meaningfully religious, to boot.

So I say to you, Michael Moore: Keep doing what you're doing [fine things]; keep educating the world to survive and prosper in the only way it can [by advocating that People Do Unto Others, etc.]

But leave magical thinking about God, out of it. Otherwise, you're just reproducing, further legitimizing the bogus normative idiocy of Religious Arguments from Authority which fascist political leaders have used to bring common epistemology to the low state in which we currently find it.

I would ask you, Michale Moore: Hasn't Humanity has just about enough of this disastrous metaphysical, certifiably-insane bullshit, that keeps pretending that God Approves of rotten, humanly-elitist Agendas?

I think so. Moreoever: I think you know so, too.

billyboy1, this isn't about the Supreme Court. There's no way a Democratic president could successfully get anyone to the left of Scalia onto the Supreme Court. The Republicans in the Senate would filibuster, and they'd probably be joined by the Nelsons, Landrieu, and other DINOs.

COUNTING
Another way the 4,000 count is off - it does not include contractors who die in the war. Over 1,000 workers, who are not enrolled in the US military, but are paid by the US government to provide "services" in the war zone, have been killed during the invasion / occupation / war / fun and games in Iraq.

VOTING
Love to see all the passion and analysis, but as one poster noted, voting is the least of our responsibilities as citizens. Who among us is organizing our family, our community, our workplace, our friends and neighbors, to resist fascism, war, corporate rule? Or to build self-sufficiency from corporate food systems and economics? i would love to see some passionate discussion of all the non-party projects that we are involved in to resist the world of corporate war industry, and build the world we need.

SWEARING
Love to see all the passion, but when we are calling each other names, we are not doing anything worthwhile. Certainly, there are among us paid disruptors who purposely seek to feed spite and despair. Let's stop feeding that fire, and burn something else instead.

I've decided I'll not live long enough to see a true progressive ever elected President. What it appears to be coming down to is, can we stand to have another neo-con(J.M.)elected so he can further pack the Supreme Court with more crazies, or should we hold our noses and vote Dem in Nov. if the polls show the race close in our own state. At least that way we may get a couple crumbs off the table, rather than being left totally out in the cold.

This is not the year for a Nader vanity/spoiler cnadidacy. McCain isn't a card carrying neocon, but Lieberman will be his minder. We need to get the radical neocons as far away from the white house as possible. The bread and butter republicans still don't understand how dangerous these people are. They have their tax cuts and the war is almost a non-issue with them.

Don't waste one vote. Independents like Cindy Sheehan in congress will be great. Obama or Clinton will have work with them to mintain a majority in congress.

Let's see. The economy is going through a 'rough patch.'
McCain doesn't know much about economics so he's going to study up by reading Greenspan, architect of our current problems, Bush is hosting easter egg rolls on the White House Lawn while the number 4000 of dead US soldiers pops up on the screen, and America will soon be celebrating the superiority of its' athletes in Communist China. We recently celebrated "Good Friday," although it's hard to see how tacking a guy to a cross in a torture death was a good thing. What's next? The Chinese capturing and executing the Dali Lama as a terrorist? Keep a suitcase packed.

rmax writes: "There are two ways to vote Republican in 2008: vote for them or vote 3d party."

Ahh, but there are in fact *three* ways to vote Republican in 2008. You can
*vote for the Republicans
*vote for the third party
*vote for the Democrats

Hardly matters, because most of the votes will still be counted on Republican-made and -operated electronic voting machines.

So?

MeAlsoTo_ARealist, so true, everytime I read ALMOST 4000, which is bad enough that they can't take 3 seconds to look up, at minimum DoD confirmed, they are not even aware the men and women that die in Military(Veterans)Hospitals? from traumatic injuries are not even counted as part of the DoD tally, not to mention in-country(Iraq)suicides are not counted either, but the true count is closer to 9000.
BaritoneWoman, that's the answer BJ's, got Clinton Impeached, yeah?
Not once did I hear anyone state the Obama "I support AIPAC." statements. He has been trying to distance himself from the , OOOH he is a MOSLIM crap, for quite awhile. I don't think he wanted to push it. As if Muslims are a bunch of al-Qaeda, Taliban, Shari'ah, whack-os. I wish once one of them, Romney, Obama someone would have answered, "I fervently support the First Amendment and feel it makes no difference."
Of course the draft is going to be reinstated, no doubt. Cheney and the lot are rallying the crew to attack Iran, which Israel will be happy to comply with, 9/6/2007 and such.
I hold out 0 hope for this country, we are pre-Depression, bush says, "a bit of a slow down", cheney, SO?, says "going through a rough patch" WTF???????????? It would have been nice if when Conda-lie-za, McInsane, cheney were in Iraq and the ME if they had encountered an RPG, IED or a Suicider, one can dream.
Thanks Michael Moore, after reading all that everyone was screaming at each other about I am sure you will understand why we are not storming by the millions to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

MY TURN

I absolutlty love reading the passion you put into expressing yourself.

In regard to the 'Bushs' War' controversy I would like to express my deepest appreciation for your concern. However, please consider the reasons behind their action, these men of means. I think a lot about what these people are saying behind closed doors.

I IMAGINE

A leader, looking out over his charges and seeing a lot of misery. Really all he sees is people propogating and wasting resources. He knows the stresses on the resourses and would like to continue in his own cozy way of life but it something isn't done soon to bring the population into balance with what Mother Earth, then we are all going to freeze.

So what to do? Who decides who gets elected to sacrifice their lives for sake Mother Earths ability to provide comfort for everyone. People like Cheney are the ones who have the guts not to feel guilty that he gets our soldiers killed or maimed; to assure his and his ilk the comforts that they what to continue to enjoy. I can imagine they sometimes think while downing a shot of vodka: these people just don't get it that they have the right to say no. I just hope they don't all rise up one day and put us in our places.

I appreciate that you value human life and the efforts you have gone to to bring knowledge to the people whose lives you touch. So.... do you think we should go on propogating and continue to prolong life with surguries and treatment, particularly the elderly, that go extreme measures? Do we go back to the days when bypass surguries or, heaven forbid, transplants weren't an option and let the elderly go back to dying at more reasonable ages in order to start depopulating the earth? Do you thinks it's okay to let the population grow another 3 billion people?
How are we going to keep all these people warm and happy?

Posted by:
Mordechai Shiblikov March 24th, 2008 4:54 pm
-If God had wanted to bless the USA . . . he ,it, or whatever that power is or was, would have prevented George Wanker Bush from becoming president of this nation. No, down here we are apparently on our own. And on our own I have been been stoned since yesterday (Easter). When faced with the self-destruction of this nation as symbolized by 4,000 dead in Iraq, it is certainly one effective way to deal with the problem. George Wanker Bush is the last scoop of mashed potatoes in the bottom of the rotten barrel. John Wanker McCain is the dregs of that barrel and he will be the next Numero Uno. As the German poet Friedrich Hebbel once pointed out: governments never learn anything from history or the lessons that can be deduced from it. We are faced with a future of more death, more blood, more debt and more eye-popping, jaw-dropping stupidity from our fellow citizens. Long Live Boo!-

[And I expect a better Editing-function in cd.org..."until they're DOA's-(counted)-elsewhere"...!]

And, I'll see your "So?", and add my "And?":
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7693
"The Post-Bush Regime: A Prognosis"
by Richard K. Moore
[Any relation of yours?]

Reading Odoco, Karlof1, so well-reasoned and Doom n' Gloom, very moving, and most of the other very passionate folks convinces me the responses CD gets are WAY ABOVE AVERAGE and quite inspiring.......I understand the frustration..... but the revo ain't ripe yet so despite strong questions I gotta go with the Audacity of Hope for 2008. I'm 75plus; I hope to "see" 2012 , but by then,if I'm still sucking air-- my heart and gut may be forced into a more desperate place.Things could move very fast EITHER WAY!

Four thousand of our children and a million of theirs - none of whom will ever rise again on the third day. So? Only Warbucks count to these cruel and greedy liars!

Mike -- as a fellow-Michigander, you gotta know our 'war'-dead exceeded 4,000 in Iraq years-back (go ahead and count the ones on planes already-dead, so that they 'don't officially count' until their DOA's-elsewhere). And, dead-Iraqi's number WELL over that million you mention.
[But, STILL less than what Clinton/Albright killed...! And, hugely-less than what Clinton/Gore-2008 will 'rack-up' -- via starvation all-over the ME/3rd-World...]
Don't 'damn these people with faint-Praise', Mike...give full "credit where it is due".
[I expect better-efforts/fact-checking/objectivity from a Flint-boy...!]

Bush has no planes, no bombs, and if he had to fight a war he'd have to do it with the chain saw he uses on the ranch. It's the "Democrat's War". They voted to fund it. Only the Congress has the power to declare and fund war. We have been bombing Iraq since 1991.
I'm voting for Nader.

IRS, "Our records indicate you have not paid your Federal Taxes"

Me, "So?"

How many politicians do we have in this country?

What if four thousand of THEIR loved ones were dead because of this invasion?
Would it still be going on??????

God may not bless America, but She will bless you, Michael.
I know it's not easy, but thank you for trying to wake us up.

Maybe that'll be John McCain's campaign slogan -

SO...?

More War, Less Jobs - SO...?

No More Habeas Corpus - SO...?

The US is the richest and technologically most developed country in the world. This is too much of a temptation for any human being. Power corrupts and huge, barely limited power corrupts in the same ways; witness Bush and Cheney. Imperialistic policies follow, first abroad, such as in indonesia, guatemala, chile, irak and elswhere. Then, as some people realize the craziness and inconsistencies of these policies, the empire begins to crack down on its citizens at home; witness illegal surveillance and abuse of presidential power. Thus, extreme unchallenged size is the most serious enemy of a democracy. This won't change regardless of who is elected president. The only salvation for the US democracy is to break up the country into several rich, smaller, hopefully decent countries. Whoever does not consider this a possible, though perhaps very long term, solution is adicted to the idea of a strong and dominant republic and, by definition, a republican. This makes most Americans republicans at heart, regardless of their stated political affiliation and explains the presence of Bush and Cheney and the weakness of democrats when push comes to shove.

The Penguin fishing off the Sultan of Oman's royal yacht inspires comparison between the present day petro-racket and the past various global rackets of the British, the Anglo-Americans and others. The opium racket, the spice rackets (cinnamon, tea, etc), the cotton racket, the tropical fruit racket. All rackets shared the essential features of grand scale, that production was geographically separate from consumption, requiring the consumer's dependence on large producers, and that consumption could be controlled through marketing, and that consumer addiction and dependence could help control the consumer, particularly to help drive empire expansion.

"So?"

So, Penguin, one of the exercises in the new K-12 civics curriculum will go like this: Kids, what are the current and emerging global rackets and what local industry can you participate in to help snuff out those rackets and how will you celebrate your noble accomplishments?

If God had wanted to bless the USA . . . he ,it, or whatever that power is or was, would have prevented George Wanker Bush from becoming president of this nation. No, down here we are apparently on our own. And on our own I have been been stoned since yesterday (Easter). When faced with the self-destruction of this nation as symbolized by 4,000 dead in Iraq, it is certainly one effective way to deal with the problem. George Wanker Bush is the last scoop of mashed potatoes in the bottom of the rotten barrel. John Wanker McCain is the dregs of that barrel and he will be the next Numero Uno. As the German poet Friedrich Hebbel once pointed out: governments never learn anything from history or the lessons that can be deduced from it. We are faced with a future of more death, more blood, more debt and more eye-popping, jaw-dropping stupidity from our fellow citizens. Long Live Boo!

GOING BY WARS ON A $HOWY EVENING
--Apologies to Robert Frost / Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening

Whose War$ these are I think I know.
His Cour$e is in the Pillage though;
He will not See me coming here
to watch his wars "fill up" with "$O?"

cont. @:
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/3354/81/
--posted: comment # 8

so? all this is irrelevant: u.s. 'deploys nuclear sub to persian gulf'

www.presstv.ir

sub heading under middle east news.

It's Bush's war and it's Cheney's war for Halliburton and KBR!!! That fact is unarguable ~Gordon~.

The Democrats and Nancy Pelosi insuring impeachment is off the table are at fault for not stopping it and pulling ALL of the troops out of Iraq and deserting that idiotic embassy and "Green zone".

But they're dammned if they do and damned if they don't now. Gore or Kerry would never have stared the war with Iraq. Bush put the country into this mess and now the Democrats have to solve it. I don't believe they can in any suitable manner.

You can be assured McCain won't and you can be assured Nader, or any other third party candidate won't either, because they're pissing up a rope to run for the presidency and any who waste their vote for them are only doing so for useless, self gratification. They can later say, I didn't vote for so and so, I voted for Nader, or Mary Anne Dufus and feel good about it. ___ Shit.

HEY, MICHAEL:
MAYBE IF YOU HAD STOOD BEHIND DENNIS KUCINICH WHEN HE NEEDED YOU THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT???!!!!

MooreNEVER openly supported Kucinich, donated to him, endorsed him, or worked for him. Michael Moore is a cop-out! I used to think he was a great guy--but those days are over since the aforementioned anonymity. NOW he will endorse O-bummer because they are down to two celebrity candidates and BadRock is the lesser of evils! SHAME ON YOU, MICHAEL MOORE!!!

Ooh, this "discussion" is a neo-con's wet dream.

I agree with what Howard Zinn wrote a few weeks ago (remember that far back?) - pulling the lever is the least of the things required of citizens. If that's all you do, you ain't a citizen, you're merely a consumer.

To Michael Moore: I love your stuff man, but to this latest, I say, so? And add, no shit!

Bush's War (or whatever you want to call it) airs tonight and tomorrow night on Frontline. We may already know it all. So? So, I'll watch it anyway just in case I don't already know it all.

Okay, I love Micheal Moore and all, but -

How can he acknowledge that the Democrats could have "pulled the plug" on this war anytime in the past 15 months, but haven't, and then go on just a few sentences earlier to call it "Bush's War?" Doesn't pretending that it's all Bush's fault enable us to accept Democrats who are singularly unable or unwilling to stop the war, simply because they are not Bush (or Repbulicans)? And let's not forget, it was a Democratic-controlled Senate, in 2002, that voted to give Bush the go-ahead.

Yeah, Cheney is evil incarnate, but evil does not succeed because of the acts of a few evil people, but rather by the inaction of the rest of us. I'm ready to go beyond bashing the neo-con warmongers and start going after our "representatives" in Congress who point to finger at Bush-Cheney while allowing the war to continue for their own political gain.

"Where do YOU want those billions of dollars in pollution allowances to go?" AdeleTheCzech March 24th, 2008 4:03 pm

Ooooohhh. Oooooohhhh. Ooooohhh. If we don't vote Dim the Unions will all die. If we don't vote Dim all the jobs will go off shore. If we don't vote Dim we'll lose the social safety net. If we don't vote Dim bad people will be appointed to the Supreme Court.

IF WE VOTE DIM THEY WILL GET US OUT OF IRAQ AND IMPEACH BUSH CHANEY.

FUCK YOUR GODDAMN DIMS. FUCK'EM AND LETT'EM DIE ON ANTHILLS IN THE MOHAVE THEN BURY THEIR BODY PARTS IN SEPARATE HOLES. LET THEIR NAMES AND THEIR FAMILIES BE ERASED FROM THE BOOK OF TIME.

AN ENEMY IS AN ENEMY BUT WHEN THE ONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE YOUR FRIEND SELLS YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN INTO SLAVERY - WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO THEM? HOW MANY GOBBETS OF FLESH WOULD BE LEFT WHEN YOU ARE DONE?

FUCK YOUR DIM ANIMALS. I WAS THERE AND I DO NOT FORGET. Let them die.

Take your fear based faith based politics and shove them up your Dim ass. Yes dearie, we're all very afraid now. Afraid enough to carve betrayors into gobbets of flesh. After your Dims deliver America into starvation, the machetes will be sharpened and your neighbors will come after you as a defender of EVIL.

Bubye.

What do you eat for beakfast ~Tetti Tatti~? My God you are such a horrible, souless person, how can you stand yourself?

I proudly voted for Nader in 2000, and then again in 2004. I will not vote for him this year. Why? Because Nader is more interested in getting his last shot at the Presidency than he is in bringing the country together to defeat the right wing. Because he is old as dirt, like John McCain. Because saying and believing the right stuff doesn't mean shit unless you can deliver. I don't think Nader can deliver.

And to the sorry soul who is going to vote for DK: We all love DK and wish he also had more of a chance, but he is out of the race! Wake up!

And finally, who in their right might can vote for anyone other than Barack Obama right now? Honestly? How much change do you think can actually come from one election? Do you think that by electing someone like Ralph Nader, we will suddenly no corporations, universal health care and free education through Ph.D? Again, wake up.

It's time to act like adults, vote like adults, and then take responsibility like adults. The problem with you Nader and post-campaign DK people is that you think the President we elect is the answer. We are the answer. We need someone in there who will at least listen to us, and then it's up to us to give that new President a deal he can't refuse!

It still amazes me that America looks the other way while Bush and Cheney continue to destroy it. There has to be a way to get rid of them and now!

Democratic voters are the most ignorant, the blindest, the most exasperating people on the face of the Earth. They hate Nader for getting 90,000 votes in Florida in 2000, but forget that 2,000,000 (that's 2 million) registered DEMOCRATS (= idiots) across the nation voted for Bush for president that same year. Can you stop eating excrement for breakfast every morning, Democrats?

Can you face reality and admit that your party is responsible for Iraq, for the disastrous economy and for the loss of our civil rights as much as Republicans are?

My, what a hotbed of Nader voters here! Guess you all still believe Ralph when he says "there's not a dime's worth of difference..."

Well, kindly read this short quote from Kelpie Wilson on Truthout today re global warming:

"The European Union Emissions Trading System established under the Kyoto protocol gave away emissions allocations to polluting industries in a grandfathering scheme. This depressed the price of carbon and got the market off to a slow start in 2005.

The Lieberman-Warner bill would repeat this strategy in the US by giving away over half of the pollution allowances - worth billions of dollars - to big industries like coal-burning electric utilities. By contrast, both Clinton and Obama advocate auctioning 100 percent of the allowances.

One hundred percent auctioning is a litmus test for much of the environmental community, which sees the revenues as a crucial source of funds to pay for research and development of renewable energy and to support low-income people who will be hurt by higher prices. In fact, a cap-and-trade system with 100 percent auctioning of allowances is functionally not very different from a carbon tax."

Where do YOU want those billions of dollars in pollution allowances to go? Think it doesn't matter if you vote Dem or Repub, or waste a vote on any candidate without a chance in hell of winning? This is one of the crucial issues of our time. Think about it.

So..what's wrong with the lesser of two evils? Dems are less evil, and Repugs are more evil. There are two ways to vote Republican in 2008: vote for them or vote 3d party.