It takes brains, passion, and courage to creatively confront one's peers. Is it alienation or challenge? The assumption you make may belie your values.

This was essentially a non-violent action. Little but the slightest discomfort and expense can come from being doused with a harmless liquid. The assault charge, and your buying into it, betray an embrace of the status quo, of not wanting to be pushed to think or act outside a very comfortable zone we've made for ourselves here - most strikingly in a religious gathering.

Repeatedly characterizing and rejecting the event with the words "violence" and "alienation" says volumes. You - we - don't understand what those words really mean for many people in the world.

Quit worrying about the reputation of "the peace movement", as if that's some monolithic thing we're all responsible for. Quit thinking like this is an election. Thoughtful people will respond to events thoughtfully. The angry guy spouting his mouth off at the protesters isn't what we should be taking away from this.

It does not take brains to be disruptive, yell and throw fake blood.

It has not been noted that these protesters are parishioners at Holy Name either-only that they call themselves "catholic schoolgirls"-which does not make them catholic. And YES, they were intentionally coming to disrupt the ritual. Read the article-they directly stated that because of the high attendance on easter, they deliberately chose to perpetrate their actions during that liturgy.

I did not state that all the people attending mass were actively working for peace-only that many of the posters here were making the assumption that those who were attending mass were all complacent and supportive of the status quo. We have no way of knowing this and it is an unfair and untrue characterization.

You state at the end of your comment:

"The protesters jolted many of the congregants and pissed them off. Uncomfortable but a first step"

Toward what are these actions a first step? Alienating people? Creating more anger and hard feelings toward the peace movement? Encouraging violence in places of prayer? (yes, they were charged with assault)...Did any of these actions bring us one step closer to getting the troops out of Iraq? No. Will the actions of the catholic schoolgirls attract more people to join those who are working for peace? No.

So, yes, the catholic schoolgirls did, indeed, jolt the congregants of Holy Name and piss them off on easter sunday. Still,hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and 4000 american soldiers are dead and more will die and we are no closer to ending this imperialist crime. Yippee...yes,by all means,congratulate yourself! It's a great first step!

helenahandbasket:

There is little evidence that the American Catholic community as a whole is actively engaged against the Iraq war, regardless of the actions of some prominent Catholics. Worship services don't deserve the hands-off stance you think they do. A bunch of comfortable people coming together in community, as you say, and theoretically being more reflective than in their daily lives, seems to be an ideal time to thrust pressing social issues into their consciousness.

These weren't outsiders coming to disrupt their rituals. These were members OF THAT COMMUNITY. If people can't use their brains and passions to break down barriers and communicate to people in their social groups - what does that say about the insularity of the Church? Ritual over substance. Predictability and comfort over engagement and dynamism.

The protesters jolted many of the congregants and pissed them off. Uncomfortable but a first step.

helenahandbasket:

Thank you for expressing what I was thinking more eloquently than I am able.

ditto.

I've read the comments on this page-and so many of them are filled with assumptions and judgements about the people at Holy Name and the protesters.
How do any of you know that the people at Holy Name are supporting the war? Many, many prominent peace activists have been devout catholics...Martin Sheen, Kathy Kelly (who is from Chicago), Dorothy Day, Daniel Berrigan. In order to fully practice their faith, they attend mass-just like the people of Holy Name. They take time out from protesting and working for peace to pray for it. To feed their spiritual life through community and prayer. For Catholics, Easter is the most sacred holiday of the liturgical year. So, while I agree with the protesters stance against the war, I disagree with their methods. There are no ends-only means and making an act of aggression during a time of prayer is wrong-whether it is anti-war protesters disrupting easter mass or US soldiers disrupting prayer at a mosque or elsewhere.

All this hateful judgement toward people just attending mass on easter sunday. All of them could have been at peace rallies last week, all of them could be actively writing and calling their senators and representatives to end this tragedy. None of us know that they are complacent. It is just assumed because they are practicing their faith. Don't we all stil have that right in this country?

How have we come to this level of hatefulness toward one another? Yes, it is true that the institutional Catholic church is rife with hypocrisy. However, people don't go to mass to worship the catholic church. They go because they need community,they have faith and want to share that with others. All this bitterness and vitriol directed at people attending easter mass says much more about those commenters than it does about the faithful at Holy Name.

Of course the Iraqi people deserve to have peace. They deserve to be able to go to their mosques and markets and schools without threat of violence-and we must all continue to work for peace and to hold our government accountable. I just don't see how peace will be achieved at gunpoint, or thru yelling and spraying "blood" during easter mass.
Personally, I am not a fan of the institutional catholic church. I agree that the church hierarchy is oppressive and controlling and hypocritical. (oregoncharles-the security at Holy Name is so good because there are always protests there against priests who have abused children) But, in spite of the institutional church, there are also many really wonderful, practicing catholics who do work for a more peaceful and just world.
Please, let's keep our focus on the war criminals who must be held accountable-and be kinder to one another in the process.

Kudos and a standing ovation to the protestors - solidarity!

Great action; and look for the next military shipment blockade coming soon in Seattle I believen - and think what level civ.dis. you'd be willing partake in; and may I suggest it be linked to impeachment?

During initiation processes the initiate is hopefully traumatized to the extent of viscerally waking up to their individual inner truth and power. No, the congregation did not agree to an initiatory process, but neither dose the 14 year old boy or girl.

Plus: we're spewing "depleted" uranium into the atmosphere and ground water thus committing potential suicide along with our avaricious genocide!

So it would benefit us all for those who can grow up to grow up. And not just to curtail and avoid catastrophe...but to express the human glory of the ocean of heaven that floats all around us but that we do not see.

Holy Name Catherdral could use some emails. There are children all over the world that have suffered due to US policies. Children that have witnessed one horror after another.
I suppose interrupting an Easter service to demonstrate "social conscience," is a big "no-no" for christianity. How convenient and selective the christian faith is-and how stunningly hypocritical, as well.

When young people act non-violently to protest the horror these comfortable church goers help to inflict upon Iraqi's it is a good thing.

" Muscleboy March 24th, 2008 3:43 pm

Yes well the USA and UK are mass-murdering and otherwise torturing people on a global basis but especially in Iraq and Afghanistan the good Catholic people of Chicago should be able to have a peaceful Easter service! Spraying them with fake blood was just plain rude. ..."

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, sure. I FAR PREFER TO NOT ATTEND Christian ceremonies in shallow mind and soul USA; no true sense of being charitable, having a good sense of humour, etc. IOW, NOT examples of followers of Jesus of Nazareth are they!

Remember, around 77% of "Americans" supported war on Iraq when it was already and very obvious that this could never be justified; and according to reports I read, which surely others also read, "Christian" churches of the USA all supported the war, with the Roman Catholic and Presbytarian churches being the lesser supporters, but over 60% of both still supported the launching of this hellbent war that the UN refused to authorise and thereby declared it to be illegal, besides what we could realise for ourselves and very easily so? Remember that?

Like I said, NOT TRUE EXAMPLES of followers of Jesus of Nazareth are they!

What these protesters did would not be treated this way in many Quebec churches, but there are noticeable differences between the characters and ways of Quebec clergy and those in the USA. I've noticed it myself, but it is common enough knowledge here too.

Ici, les gens sont beaucoup plus 'bons vivants'! Here, people tend to be more relaxed, jovial, humouristic, jolly souls, etc.; is what the French 'bon vivant' basically means.

Moins de tetes pointues. Fewer pointy heads.

If I become minister in the church, then protesters like these will never be treated differently than the way I believe and know, through Scripture, that Jesus would treat them. He would have told these people at the Mass in Chicago to relax, to not make a scandal out of the incident, to NOT publish the names of these protesters, who are followers of his, and to take the incident in good Christian heart; to UNDERSTAND, instead of being pointy-headed elitist idiots. He'd say as he purportedly did about Mary Magdellan, a prostitute, whom other criticised for this, and which is that she was more full of [love] than they were, and God loves [love].

These people are the Mass in Chicago judged only based on momentary surprise and appearances, and Jesus said to NOT judge based on appearances, but to look DEEPLY.

NOT true examples of followers of his are they! Bunch of pin-headed elitists I'd give a piece of my mind to, if I could do so in person; liking that approach best of all. I'd use this protest incident to re-teach Scripture to these elitists.

Saints aren't saints unless they have a [good], healthy, sane sense of humour!

dgioia wrote: "How do you know they're "complacent" or "indifferent"?? I guess because they went to mass on Easter?"

No, because they reacted angrily to their slight discomfiture during one of their rituals, rather than thoughtfully to the substance of the protesters' message, to these people who had gone out of their way to put themselves personally at risk. It's all right for them to hear the occasional watered-down media report of mayhem in a distant land, but not for them to personally experience something slightly uncomfortable in the bosom of their own community.

The people of this country don't like having their comfortable lives interrupted, don't like anything they perceive as too in-your-face". It's about time more of us say to that: "Tough shit. Wake up."

Jesus protested in the temple because many of the so-called faithful were really just supporting the empire.

This time we have people who protest in the church because many of the so-called faithful are really just supporting the empire.

Back then, the emperor wanted his statue erected in the temple. Most people protested.

Now the emperor wants his flag flown in the churches. Just about everyone concedes.

This is the appropriate audience for the protesters--those who claim to care but really need to learn how.

Well, fake blood was spilled and real ink too. At least the press corps kind of sort of alluded to the ongoing Iraq war, which has disappeared from sight and out of the American consciousness.

This stunt got more ink than the recent Winter Soldier event conducted by Iraq veterans.

The question should really be: What does it take to get the mainstream corporate media's attention, now that the U.S. official dead soldier count is at 4,000, and rising?

By the way, didn't Jesus say something like, "Blessed are the peacemakers"? Apparently, not so in church.

I wonder if the IRS will question the church's tax status now, like they did to a church in Pasadena, Calif. when the minister questioned the war?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUdftDH70TQ

How do you know they're "complacent" or "indifferent"?? I guess because they went to mass on Easter?

Sitting each Sunday in their pews, the worshipers listen to a ceremony honoring their lord. The priest blesses a chalice of wine and wafers, symbolizing the body and blood of their savior, which the worshipers then proceed to take within themselves.

The Catholic Schoolgirls Against the War chose a perfect time to spread the symbolic blood of dead soldiers and innocent Iraqis upon themselves and upon complacent citizens. I applaud all creative attempts to awaken or to shock others from the sloth of indifference to Imperial atrocities being committed by their government.

I think I'm going to take my three year old outside and shoot some guns around the ground at her feet and pour some blood on her. Maybe I'll stop letting her wear clothes and put some land mines out in the front yard. Then maybe she'll understand that her and her friends and family are heartless jerks because we went to mass on Easter.

At least you know where all the hypocrites are on Easter Sunday. They are quite mean with anyone that exposes that hypcrisy or rocks thier boat.

"Are you happy with yourselves?" Mike Wainscott of Chicago shouted at the demonstrators as they were being handcuffed. "There were kids in there. You scared little kids with your selfish act. Are you happy now?"

How about this Mike Wainsscott

Why don't you fly over to Iraq and see how scared their kids are?

Fuck you Mike. Thank you all that stand up for peace.

The point is, the truth is downright painful sometimes. Especially when your brain's been working overtime to ignore some very horrific realities.
If we, as conscious forces, are not pissing some people off, we're not doing our job. This line that "we're alienating people who would otherwise be on our side" with tactics like this is a load of crap. The war has been going on for FIVE YEARS. If these people haven't stepped off the sidelines yet, they're not going to...at least not without a little prodding.

OH MAN: "We should all work for peace," George said, "but not by interrupting the worship of God."
This is the problem with religion.

All venues are OK for protesting this horrendous war crime. Scared the children? So what? How about one million Iraqis slaughtered so far? I think, if they had chosen the luxury of being scared than being slaughtered.

Thanks - you protesters.

Two wrongs eh???
I take it you're not thinking about the lies that led to an unnecessary war; violating the concept of a 'just war' (not that that concept had any traction whatsoever outside of a church).

Nor would you be thinking of the wrong in killing wounded soldiers and civvies, which has happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

How about the wrongs of bombing weddings, blowing up churches, mosques and hospitals?

Scaring yankee children is a wrong above all other wrongs, eh? If you believe that making the children suffer for the mistakes of bush et al, end the freaking war and make restitution for your crimes against humanity.

I suppose it'd be totally tasteless of me to point out that Hollywood has been making billions of dollars by producing fictional horror movies that are designed to frighten the children...

this is the exact kind of extremism that will turn many away in disgust.

I presume that the word many refers to the many of the anti-war movement members who are gaining traction . If those members can be shocked and disgusted by a fake-blood-soiled Easter hats and non-violent fear aimed at , as one poster described , otherwise-bored children then these polite anti-war movement members are lip-service protesters and a sham .

AngstOfThePeople : Learn some history

Gandhiès mantra has been the practised strategy for every act of non-violent-civil-disobediance against unjust policies and laws .

Referring to the authorities , First they ignore you , then they ridicule you , then they fight you , then you win.

When the civil-rights marchers decided to disobey the city ordinance and walk across the Edmund Pettis Bridge , each marcher knew that he or she was walking a into fully-armed phalanx of Alabama State Troopers ready to SHED REAL BLOOD and SCARE CHILDREN . The marchers knew the carnage was going to be televised across the nation and across the world . Was there real blood , really , traumetized children É . Of course there was . That was the plan.

Ask any historian of the civil-rights-movement , what event would be considered the watershed of that movement and I think many would agree with three land-mark words , Edmund Pettis Bridge.

American citizens were offended , not in the way you think by the demonstrators but by the reaction of the legal authorities .

Did it work É You tell me . Do you see any Whites-Only signs É , any black students at U. of Miss É , any white students a Howard or Tuskegee É....

After you have checked out these stories and strategies do the same for Gandhi and Mandela in South Africa and Gandhi in India and remember the phrase : make them beat you , draw real blood and maybe kill you and make sure everybody including kids are watching .

Obviously the demonstration was not selfish either as there was a selfless purpose behind the demonstration. So when the Christian claimed that the demonstration was selfish, was he actually lying or he just used the wrong adjective by accident? I choose to believe he told a lie.

its blair bush and all the rest of the war mungers
we should get at,

Wow! That was cool. I wish I would have thought of that. :-) As surprising as this demonstration on "Holy Ground" was, what was not so shocking was the reaction by the congregation. This was the typical Christian response. Even Jesus did worse in the Synagogue than these people did spitting fake blood. The congregation should feel lucky that it was a show and not the real thing in which Iraqis are literally killed inside buildings of worship while services are taking place.

There is an interesting quote in this piece that is actually the final sentence:

"We should all work for peace [...] but not by interrupting the worship of God."

I see. So by this logic when Jesus basically ransancked a Synagogue by knocking down a table full of money in protest this act was...dare I say...an example of something positive? Also, who is to say that God did not intend for those six people to be in the church in an effort to demonstrate that, as many Christians claim, "God works in mysterious ways?" Did not think of these possibilities did you? Nooooo...instead, rather than using the mind that God gave you first, the congregation chose to, what was the word... "berate" the people who were arrested for "disrupting your precious service" and doing such an unholy disgraceful act inside God's house. Oh that's right...God does not reside in a building but in each one of us. That's right my bad sorry I forgot.

Some other person mentioned in the piece demonstrated the all too typical Christian act of judgment in which this subjective person who obviously lacks objectivity by default as well as lacking critical thinking skills claimed:

"...you scared little kids with your selfish act."

Who gave this person the right to be so presumptuous? Very smug and prideful of the person to ask if they felt happy after being arrested. I am not sure how they six people felt; but for the Christian to ask them if they felt happy is quite frankly none of his f-n business! :-)

What you think of that answer Christian? Hmmm... By the way, for those sweet innnocent little American children inside that church to feel scared by some people spitting up fake blood - cry ME a f-n river! This particular Christian should think about what an Iraqi child goes through DAILY seeing REAL blood caused by the likes of these American Christians! I would cut the inside of my mouth and spit on every member of this "Christian" congregation if I could and just call it the blood of Christ! Yeah... Let's see how freaked out these Christians would be then.

Yes well the USA and UK are mass-murdering and otherwise torturing people on a global basis but especially in Iraq and Afghanistan the good Catholic people of Chicago should be able to have a peaceful Easter service! Spraying them with fake blood was just plain rude. We shouldn't be confronted with the Hitlerian misdeeds of our own society when we are worshiping God! That is just WRONG!

Just because little tiny Iraqi children are burnt alive or their tiny arms and legs ripped off their bodies by our bombs and 50 caliber machine guns doesn't mean it's ok to scare our little kids during their worship of God. It's just not the decent thing to do. I mean the purpose of going to Church is so we can pretend God will not hold us accountable for our actions and that we will go to Heaven.

sure....but 2 wrongs...?

I don't know why they chose to do this at this place but... People are saying he frightened the children. But what about the children in Iraq? They see the real thing up close and personal every day. Where's the outrage about the children in Iraq who see REAL blood and carnage and see their mothers and fathers and siblings blown away before their eyes? They are innocents, too. Don't they deserve their innocense?

Only 'Christians' driving SUV's and jangling jewelry allowed here..heaven forbid issues regarding the proletariat.... and a war in another country...you've got to be joking [sic]

Funny protesters, and I'm surprised that a Christian church would dare to react harshly like this, or at all harshly; for it should be 'not at all'. True Christians would be definitely understanding about what these protesters did and even welcoming of their act, but when in elitist member parishes, then WATCH OUT; bunch of pointy-headed and shallow- or non-hearted elitists.

In Quebec, Canada, it would be very normal for the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as other serious crises due to injustices, to be included in what's said by the parish priests. Maybe not in the elitist churches, but they don't number many here, so like I said, ... normal enough.

I went to Easter Mass yesterday and the parish has a relatively conservative priest, but he mentioned the war, as well as other injustices, addressing those in general terms meaning that all serious injustices were to be understood as referenced; maybe because he's 80 and not of strong health, needing to keep Masses ... not long.

I hadn't been to Mass or inside a church for a few years, but figured to go yesterday. Not having gone over a few years, though, maybe the former 'normal' isn't so normal any longer; although the priests who aren't too conservative, in the sense it's usually meant and which is to mean 'not good', surely included the wars this weekend; perhaps in all of their Easter ceremonies, starting with Good Thursday. Quebec definitely has some of these good priests.

Many are very weary though. The average ages are ... old, there are relatively few priests compared to even 30 years ago, now; and the aged ones often aren't of strong health. Many are required to work several parishes, given the major decline in the number of priests, and needing to serve many parishes adds to the wear.

Nonetheless, those who aren't too (negatively or wrongly) conservative would most surely include the topics of these wars during Easter ceremonies, and many times again the rest of the year. After all, the topic of current injustices in the world, which in some cases consists of injustices begun long ago and continued today, along with the causes, economic greed, and so on, these are all pertinent to address during Masses; pertinent and also important to mention. After all, Jesus of Nazareth was activist not only on religious topics, but also social injustices. Saying Mass today, he'd reemphasise the need to be [active] against social injustices.

But pointy-headed elitists are all ... [pointy]-headed.

Im not over reacting but at a time when the anti war movement is gaining traction, this is the exact kind of extremism that will turn many away in disgust.

"American children suffer?..."

Yeah.... they are gonna suffer alright! When they inherit the 3 Trillion dollar monetised and accrued debt Bu$hCo crime syndicate has given them...Along with the reckless 7 Trillion deficit spending Bu$h and his cronies have engaged in....

Lets not overeact to a little imitation blood being squirted around... the real bloodbath is in Iraq where Iraq childrens body parts are scattered all over the street....

I suppose that not one of those 'concerned' parents gave a second to consider the parents of Iraq where they live in fear of their children's lives each day because of the hell bush has unleashed…."

- sooooo, your answer is to stop the war by making American children suffer? gotcha.

"....I suppose that none of the concerned parents gave a moment's thought to the children of Iraq who watch their parents get their f#####head's blown off because they drove a car too close to a yank soldier. I suppose that not one of those 'concerned' parents gave a second to consider the parents of Iraq where they live in fear of their children's lives each day because of the hell bush has unleashed...."

Exactly....

"How many people complain about Fish and Game clubs taking children out on hunting and fishing trips."

Why should there be any complaint? So long as the parent is there or otherwise approves of such an activity, I don't see the problem.

"There were kids in there. You scared little kids with your selfish act. Are you happy now?"
I suppose when an Iraqi child watches his mother being killed as "collateral damage" they don't get scared.
Who is the selfish a$$hole here?

PETA stood outside and still stands outside the nutcracker in Boston and other cities to protest the parents who dare to wear fur. They hand out these comic books with graphic and unrealistic depictions of animal slaughter.

consequently, people like me stand outside, handing free mcdonalds hamburgers out to the homeless and anyone else who wants one. Gotta love that freedom of speech.

I dont know why Peta would be handing out bloody comic books at a Nutcracker show unless it was sponsored by something bad, usually they are pretty good about their targeting--but regardless, shielding children from the reality of injustice makes no sense if you care about injustice. The only reason parents get mad is they dont want their kids to know about injustice until they are old enough to be apathetic. Usually kids are smarter than that. Showing the horrors of the circus to children going into a circus is the right thing to do.
Kudos to Peta for being so brave.
How many people complain about Fish and Game clubs taking children out on hunting and fishing trips.

The great thing about Peta is that it knows children are its future--and it has worked, according to the NYT Peta is considered the best charity to work for by teenagers.

Screw the Invisible man in the sky--a bunch of hypocrites in church worshiping a violent pastoral god instead of fighting to improve things for God's creation. Typical.

Yes, indeed, as the "slaughter of the innocence" clearly shows us in the Bible. Great "good news", eh?

what of leaving the children to be children? there is a place for innocence, you know.

Scaring the children? Poor little lambs...

Did any of them happen to note what the topic of Easter is? The gruesome death of a man, tortured and stuck on a cross. Yah yah, supposedly the guy comes back from the dead; something that some people call a zombie, but hey if worshiping a zombie floats your boat I suppose launching a war crime is a good idea. The actions of the protesters is tame compared to that little story, not to mention the creapy pictures that hang on the walls of most Catholic Churches.

I suppose that none of the concerned parents gave a moment's thought to the children of Iraq who watch their parents get their fucking head's blown off because they drove a car too close to a yank soldier. I suppose that not one of those 'concerned' parents gave a second to consider the parents of Iraq where they live in fear of their children's lives each day because of the hell bush has unleashed.

What a bunch of ding dongs.

Give us Barabbas!

The reply is that the issue of the Iraq invasion is of much larger social concern than the possible frightening of some schoolchildren (doubtful - when I was a bored child being forced to attend Mass day after day, my classmates and I looked forward to any kind of disruption or excitement, no matter how minor). In any case, the real issue for the adults in the church is likely that they were discomfited themselves by the interruption to their comfortable worship routine.

Those children will be paying for the Iraq debacle with their money, and possibly with their bodies. Scare them good.

A good example of bad targeting.

I'm puzzled by something, though: why does a church have such effective security? What are they worried about? In particular, who do they think might demonstrate against them? Some people out there with a grudge against the priesthood, maybe?

Its events like this that turns public sentiment against the protest movement. What was accomplished here other than a tawdry headline and some shocked kids on Easter Sunday?

"Are you happy with yourselves?" Mike Wainscott of Chicago shouted at the demonstrators as they were being handcuffed. "There were kids in there. You scared little kids with your selfish act. Are you happy now?"

- Wainscott took the words right out of my mouth. This is a completely inappropriate place and time for the catholic schoolgirls to make an impact. This is very much on the level of the PETA fanatics handing out flyers and comic books depicting gory comics on animal slaughter as they head into the Nutcracker in Boston - its reprehensible that anyone would terrify children to get a point across.