How many besides the 4000 have committed suicide and are not even counted in the total number killed.

Dear Marv
I just read an article today by someone who as been tracking the suicide rate carefully and is writing a book about it and he says that it is over 1000...
In sorrow
Cindy

Once again it's time to consider:

-how an allegedly civilized nation like the Unites States still traffics in death and destruction;

-how a populace of 230 million remains so complacent;

-how so many were hoodwinked by a bunch of magnets shaped like ribbons;

-how so many can be "offended" by words and pictures while they easily stomach rampant slaughter in a foreign nation.

We may easily be the sickest people on the face of the earth. When will we start healing ourselves and the world?

It hit 4,000 a while ago I think, when you ship out the seriously wounded and not count them as Iraqi war dead if they die on route, or in hospital, from their wounds...

I don't think the us does body counts properly, they don't count their own bodies properly and have stated that Iraqi bodies don't count at all. That's twisted.

"...each ... is equally precious and their loss equally tragic," said Rear Admiral Gregory Smith.

I wonder if the Rear Admiral put flowers on the lynched President's grave or wept for the millions we have murdered so far.

4,000 dead all in the name of Big Oil and defence contractors. I'm sure those CEO's feel that it is a small price to pay for the enormous profits this war has brought to a select few.

Keep it up, brave Iraqi patriots...

Why do the 4,000 U.S. dead get so much more publicity than the 1.2 million dead Iraqis not only in the U.S. but abroad as well? I guess we're only suppose to empathize with humans killed who are American citizens.
And despite the best effort of Iraqis to let us know that they utterly despise the U.S. government (and the military is the main symbol of the U.S. government) and its illegal occupation, there is abslolutely no indication that this White House (or the next!) have any intention of ever leaving.

The Surge is working! Mission accomplished! Oceania is at war with Eastasia! Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia!

The Pen Robber Primates

Will the pen robber primates of privileged pomp greave
while their pliant puppet mercenaries reave?
Do they rant like hyenas that are short on the tooth
Does their soul eaters meat get lost on the teat?

Do the pen robber primates prime the pump
of lascivious lobbyists leading Mammon with glee
to the plea of the hucksters from Wall burry street?

Do the pen robber primates, the Fed of the privates
prey on war like a soul eating whore?

OH CheeneyO Oh? Oh? Oh?

Gee What?

GWOT?

Gee Where?

Gee When?

Gee Why?

The U.S. casualty count for Iraq is relatively low in proportion to the time spent there when compared to countries such as Vietnam. Worst of all is that the people of Iraq are dying at a much faster rate than the peoples of both Vietnam and the US. For every one US soldier killed, there are more than 30,000 Iraqis killed. Think about that... While I don't blame ALL the Iraqi deaths directly on the USA troops, the USA certainly played an indirect role, not to mention 25% of the population of Iraq becoming refugees. These events are consequences of the USA choice to invade Iraq. This needs to be kept in mind. THE USA CHOSE TO INVADE IRAQ WHEN IT DID NOT HAVE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE!

While all of the Iraqi people are worthy of my sympathy, I believe that is necessary for them to order some kind of ceasefire between the factions so that political compromises can happen for the sake of their people and culture. It is very tragic what is happening all over Iraq. Again, this tragedy did not have to happen and is the saddest part of all.

What makes the USA better than the Nazis when the USA military are commiting genocide in Iraq with the use of depleted uranium? Seriously. At least the Nazis did not wage war against France and commited genocide against Jewish people strictly for the sake of greed and misguided revenge. For the Nazis were more justified in both cases than the Americans were for invading Iraq. If Iraq occupied USA for almost 125 years, like France did with Germany throughout the 1800s and early 1900s, maybe just maybe I would believe that the USA had a legitament justification for invading Iraq. However, I do not recall Iraq ever occupying the United States in USA History. This makes the USA even worse than Nazi Germany right now.

It seems clear that, with the obvious disproportionate number of casulties, that one goal of the USA in Iraq is to make the people of Iraq go extinct.

Ahuramazda asks:

"What makes the USA better than the Nazis when the USA military are commiting genocide in Iraq with the use of depleted uranium?"

It's painfully revealing that in the global picture, our comparison to Nazis can be suggested. If we are better than Nazis (a meaningless comparison anyway as it's a category error to apply good, better, and best to humans or their societies), it's in the same sense that moldy, shit-soaked whole wheat bread is better than moldy, shit-soaked white bread, or that dying from throat cancer is better than dying from stomach cancer.

Patriots:
http://ivaw.org/faq

I can't believe this article has been on the world wide internet since this morning & it has only attracted 12 people's comment in the whole world Something as morally repugnant as the illegal occupation of Iraq by British and American armed troops...

Now that's bad.....

I believe the U.S. military told us that 3000 shouldn't be considered a milestone. What makes me angry is the military telling the American people what the people should consider a milestone and what we shouldn't. If we want to observe a milestone, then we will, otherwise, the deaths continue unremarked upon. The Iraqi people and government need to stand on their hind legs and throw us out! Like Vietnam, they will be the better for it.

"....What makes the USA better than the Nazis when the USA military are commiting genocide in Iraq with the use of depleted uranium? Seriously. At least the Nazis did not wage war against France and commited genocide against Jewish people strictly for the sake of greed and misguided revenge. For the Nazis were more justified in both cases than the Americans were for invading Iraq. If Iraq occupied USA for almost 125 years, like France did with Germany throughout the 1800s and early 1900s, maybe just maybe I would believe that the USA had a legitament justification for invading Iraq. However, I do not recall Iraq ever occupying the United States in USA History. This makes the USA even worse than Nazi Germany right now...."

Exactly...nothing more to add

"No casualty is more or less significant than another; each soldier, marine, airman and sailor is equally precious and their loss equally tragic."

Then include ALL those Bush is responsible for killing - all the state-side suicides and murders and car deaths, all the "non-combat" and Afghan KIAs, all the "private security contractor" KIAs, many of whom were former US Military...

Then remember this: the Bush administration LIES about everything. Not a few things, not some things - EVERY SINGLE THING EVER!!!

So why is everybody so accepting of this number 4000 as if it were a fact?

4,000 is the tip of an iceburg. The graveyards are filled with thousands more that "don't count" because they didn't wear a US Military uniform.

November 17 / 18, 2007

Pentagon Cover Up
15,000 or More US Deaths in Iraq War?
By MIKE WHITNEY

The Pentagon has been concealing the true number of American casualties in the Iraq War. The real number exceeds 15,000 and CBS News can prove it.

CBS's Investigative Unit wanted to do a report on the number of suicides in the military and "submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the Department of Defense". After 4 months they received a document which showed--that between 1995 and 2007-- there were 2,200 suicides among "active duty" soldiers.

Baloney.

The Pentagon was covering up the real magnitude of the "suicide epidemic". Following an exhaustive investigation of veterans' suicide data collected from 45 states; CBS discovered that in 2005 alone "there were at least 6,256 among those who served in the armed forces. That's 120 each and every week in just one year."

That is not a typo. Active and retired military personnel, mostly young veterans between the ages of 20 to 24, are returning from combat and killing themselves in record numbers. We can assume that "multiple-tours of duty" in a war-zone have precipitated a mental health crisis of which the public is entirely unaware and which the Pentagon is in total denial.

If we add the 6,256 suicide victims from 2005 to the "official" 3,865 reported combat casualties; we get a sum of 10,121. Even a low-ball estimate of similar 2004 and 2006 suicide figures, would mean that the total number of US casualties from the Iraq war now exceed 15,000.

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney11172007.html

War (especially the Iraq War): Who Profits? Who Pays?

War is welfare for corporations.

Peace!

Got Metta?

~3,996~ combat deaths in Iraq. ____ That is NOT really big news. __ Buttttt, add four more and it's a horrific MILESTONE.

A "milestone" for God's sake because it's suddenly four thousand. Well we now know that we've reached the first mile in Iraq, can't wait to see how long it takes to reach the second one, ___ and how many miles to go?

Lest we should ever forget, here is another three minute read of what we have wrought.

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_blowinginthewind.htm

The grim reality behind this and other articles, newscasts and radio broadcasts is that the bulk of the articles have been written--in the can, so to speak--- for months. Just as the video obituaries of aging celebrities hit the airwaves within moments of their deaths, we get these stories. And we knew they were coming. We know the form, the tone, the crap they feed us.

To me the Medias of looking at reality is pathetic, morbid and cruel. How can we trivialize tragedy? I can barely believe what has happened to my beloved country.

Six and a half billion people, all wanting dwindling supplies of oil for gas, food, chemicals, medicines, plastics, clothing and just about everything else, what else could we expect?

Substituting oil for coal is worse, nukes the worst, but we mustn't halt the population and economy growing tumorlike, metastasizing around the earth. Nature's culling is never pretty.

I mourn the loss of the Iraqi people so much! I have personally apologized to many Iraqis.

I notice that the violence is ramping up again. The Sunni "Awakening" are awakening to the fact that they allow the occupiers to pay them for not fighting and they are pissed that their checks are not coming and are pissed that GWB is getting credit for the surge "working." Moqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army is also ramping up the violence...

One of the things that I was concerned about Winter Soldier was that when the Iraqi people heard US Soldiers confessing to horrific war crimes (that they know are happening anyway) without any reprisal to the soldiers that this would increase the hostility in Iraq...I don't know if the increase in violence is related to Winter Soldier...there are many factors involved...

4 US soldiers killed yesterday and dozens of Iraqis...each life is precious and I mourn each one.

It is time for our troops to say: "Hell no, we won't go." After 5 years and the exposition of so many lies it is clear that our occupation is a crime against humanity and the soldiers who go along with it are also criminals.

But after five years and 60% of America (a figure I got from the BBC interviewer that I just spoke with) not even having the foggiest clue that there were anywhere near 4000 soldiers killed and are not even in the ball park with the number of Iraqis dead, it is time for us to get off of our collective asses and demand an swift and full withdrawal of our troops---and Obama supporters, he must not talk about "slow redeployment based on conditions on the ground" which is also the neocon plan---but COMPLETE withdrawal.

Mr. "So?" Dick Cheney and Mr "Noble Cause" GWB need to be expeditiously forced from power and thrown into the deepest, darkest prison to contemplate their crimes for the rest of their lives.

Here at Cindy for Congress we are trying to force this issue back into the political dialogue.

No more money for occupation...PERIOD!

Love
Cindy
www.cindyforcongress.org

I wonder how many millions of innocent Iraqis have been killed between Bush Sr, Clinton, and Bush Jr's reigns. Of course the U.S. doesn't count how many Iraqis they've killed.

Obviously the American imperialists don't consider Iraqis as human beings to be counted; according to them, the Iraqis don't count. I've seen dogs in this country being more pampered and looked out for than our fellow human beings.

General Petraeus is gearing up for an attack on Iran by making statements that the U.S. "has proof" that Iran is killing people with Iranian weapons in Iraq. Of course the "proof" wasn't made public. The millions of Iranians to be slaughtered won't be counted, either.

"No casualty is more or less significant than another; each soldier, marine, airman and sailor is equally precious and their loss equally tragic," said Rear Admiral Gregory Smith.

Here you see the Pentagon exploiting death number 1 hrough 3999, in order to prevent death number 4000 from helping to eliminate death number 4001 on up.

Well Betrayus is a friggin nut, a Bush Shill.
If we attack Iran, it's gonna be the final mile for us.

Its a good thing I got on CD before leaving work. This article reminded me that PBS, at least in Philly, is airing a Frontline documentary titled "Bush's War" tonight and tomorrow. If they don't chicken out and yank it, it promises to cover a lot of area.

I have recently listened to some local interviews of soldiers who have gone back several times. The reasons include esprit de corps and a feeling they will eventually make things better there. Recent deaths of local soldiers have been both first week there and several tours with only a few days left.

The public at large really doesn't seem to care. Truckers are talking about a week-long strike to protest diesel fuel at $4.30 / gal, but the war? Its as if some other country is at war with Iraq. McCain has a decent chance of winning the election this fall, and the war is almost a non-issue. I don't get it.

Good luck with your campaign, Cindy Sheehan. The best thing that could happen this fall would be Obama elected as president along with a lot of independents he will have to deal with to keep a majority in congress.

4,000 is important because we in the peace movement hope that something, even a mere number will wake up the brain-dead American public to the insanity and futility going on over there. They certainly don't care about Iraqi casualties. How many more must die? At this rate, it could go on forever. My sympathies to us all.

LILLULU

and gen. petraeus has just said that he has evidence that iran is responsible for the recent attack on the 'green zone'. (bbc.co.uk)
and
www.presstv.ir
has an article on its website: u.s. 'deploys nuclear sub to persian gulf'.................

KEM PATRICK

get ready for that final mile. hope you've got your running shoes on.....

4,000 is unfortunately, merely the tip of the iceberg; the part that is visible. So many deaths concealed in this tidy number.

JFK rewritten in today's America: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for Dubya and his pals."

I wonder if there's a way to get an accurate count of the actual number of American soldiers who died because of bush's war. A study was done in Iraq that came up with over a million Iraqi citizens killed. They simply asked families how many relatives or friends died. Can't someone contact military families to see how many died or got wounded? I'm sure those numbers would totally blow America away, and once again, show how bush/cheney lie.

I thought when the illegal occupation started I thought we would get out when we had 5000 casualties (our own troops only). I didn't figure on the heavy mercenary presence or the total willingness of the press to actively support the lies put out by Bu$h the inferior. I was also surprised by the number of other nations' leaders willing to lap up the genetic material that drips from the DICK.

I have also greatly overestimated the intelligence of the American people and underestimated the unsupported FEAR that grips people in their everyday life. The people will tolerate any invasion of privacy to get phony security from unlikely events.

3 trillion dollars so far. If the war lasts 95 more years that comes to 60 trillion dollars, real dollars, like, in Euros. Maybe the Treasury Department can switch to printing counterfeit Euros, lots and lots of them. 100 years. This country hasn't got 12 more months of war cash. I suppose, when the house is facing foreclosure you gather up the remaining credit cards and go to Vegas for one more weekend.

2.5 million or so refugees. If Iraq really was a hotbed of terrorists, their people have been scattered all over the world now.

A country poisoned with the dust of depleted uranium. Vietnam's DMZ has a terrible legacy of birth defects 40 years later.

What does the number 4000 represent? Is that just combat related deaths, i.e Killed in Action? Does it count those who were wounded and med-evaced to some place like Germany where they then died of their wounds? Does it represent suicides in Iraq? Or suicides of combat vets who have returned to the U.S. and/or left their particular branch of the service? Does it reflect accidents?

Lots of questions but when it comes to numbers, remember: "figures don't lie...but liers do figure."

The figure 4000 does not even touch on the subject of the wounded. In the late sixties director Richard Lester made a film "How I Won the War." John Lennon was in it. One particular line I remember is "...war has been responsible for many great advances in medicine..." True. And the fact of the number being "only" 4000 is that in previous wars a lot of the wounded would have died. Now they live on with artificial limbs etc and at great, enduring expense (and pain) to themselves, their families and the taxpayers.

The architects (and their enablers) of this much human wreckage and misery should be on their knees, begging whatever deity they hold dear for forgiveness for what that have wrought. Then they should go to prison!

Maybe there they will find the Jesus that said "Blessed are the Peacemakers..."

4,000 American soldiers dead? So what? More than one million Iraqis dead. How about that?

As we pass from the 4000 milestone and the numbers look like 4021 then 4306 then 4582, little attention will be paid. I mean who really cares about an insignificant number like 4623? It has no ring to it. But wait till we get to 4989. Then we'll start to hear murmurs about the approaching, ever so significant, 5000 mark. Now that will be a day won't it? Imagine when we get close to 9995 and the headline grabbing 10,000 is just around the corner?

Due to body armor and improved medicine at the front, soldiers don't die as easily as they used to. That 4,000 number would have been 40,000 in the past. The number of seriously injured per soldier killed has gone way up. Instead of dying, they get to suffer the rest of their lives. This is the war of lost legs, concussions and post traumatic stress disorder.

4,000, 5,000, 10,000, what does it matter? They're only humans from the lower classes. But if we were counting in units of a million dollars profit then it would.

That's the way our world works now. Prophets out! Profits in! Question of priorities. Even the Churches are part of the game.

www.dangerouscreation.com

Keep voting Democratic and the toll will keep rising. Obama is not NOT going to end the war, Hillary isn't either. Pelosi, Reid? Never.

Vote Third Party or Independent, you blind fools.

We need to shut this war down. The people took the Viet Nam War away from the Nixon White House, and people need to take the Iraq War away from the Bush White house, as well.
We've done it before; we can do it again!

alexnosa back on 3/24 brought up the number of possible Iraqi people who have been killed relative to the to the number of Americans.

4000 is another milestone, but it is small compared to the number of Iraqis killed, so many in fact that the number is not known. 'Iraq Body Count' estimates about 80,000 - 90,000 Iraqis have been killed since the invasion. There are other estimates that are much higher.

"One in five Iraqis have been displaced. According to the UN Refugee Agency and the International Organization for Migration in 2007, almost 5 million Iraqis had been displaced by violence in their country, the vast majority of which had fled since 2003. Over 2.4 million vacated their homes for safer areas within Iraq, up to 1.5 million were living in Syria, and over 1 million refugees were inhabiting Jordan, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey and Gulf States"...from Refugees International.

Imagine we have stood by and alllowed our government to invade another sovern nation and kill thousands of their citizens and make refugees out of millions more.

Why are these facts about the people in Iraqi not more of an issue?...in our Congress?...in the news organizations around the world?...wherever there are caring people?

What there's a war/occupation in Iraq?!?!? Judging from the number of attendance at a family gathering over the weekend with 100 present, not one mention of the fifth anniversary, not one mention of 4,000 KIA, not one mention of anything of this sort, which is a shame, if it's not on TV before or after America Idol (or is it America is Idle). Public Apathy, or lack of interest - now that is Mission Accomplished, great job GOP/DEM/BUSH/PELOSI, et all.

Why didn't you bring it up Joe? We all should be talking about it wherever we go, even if it makes people uncomfortable. The death and destruction of Iraq is alot more than uncomfortable. We need to wake people up, even if it's just our family, friends and co-workers. Don't let them ignore it.