What the Republicans have done and are doing is without merit.

BUT

What FDR said bears slight resemblence to what he did.

For a different view see:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/higgs/higgs77.html

The author, when asked about WWII as a follow-up to "The Great War" (WWI before WWII) said: "I have not written about this connection except in passing, but Jim Powell has done so in his book WILSON'S WAR: HOW WOODROW WIlSON'S GREAT BLUNDER LED TO HITLER, LENIN, STALIN & WORLD WAR II (2005)."

Our Washington legislative traitors and Secretary of State Knox also committed a double-blunder on Wilson's watch: The Federal Reserve Act and the 16th amendment.

The 60's were a product not of the New Deal but of the Vietnam war and conscription. We rebelled because our asses were on the line. There is no draft today precisely in order to prevent a replay of the 60s. FDR was no hero, he responded to the pressures of the time because he had no choice if he wanted to be president. Huey Long is the real reason for the New Deal, FDR was pushed.He was also a criminal, and noone should forget that. He was responsable for millions of unnecessary deaths, sacrificed Americans to have an excuse to go to war, and then promptly committed war crimes to cement his legacy as one more American war criminal President. He is not someone I admire. Like Buckley he was arrogant and classy and used this to fool people into thinking he was bright. He wasn't, and neither was Buckley. Americans always fall for form over substance.

Follow the money...it is currently in the hands of an unelected group (the Federal Reserve)that has the power to do anything it wants (see Bear Stearns last Friday/Sunday) with no accountability. The delusion that we live in a democracy-- Well, we could if we determined that we were no longer allow ourselves to be slaves. Watch this clip--an inspiration to a new democracy is possible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sZCNlPwG8o

The year after I was born, my father got a road building job on the WPA, the government's program for putting the country back on track after the The Great Depression, and the greatest program I think this country ever had. Not only did it provide jobs for millions, there were so many things these jobs got done to benefit the country, half that probably would never have gotten done without it.

The New Deal made a huge impact on my life in another way as well. It took away my fear, and probably my whole family's fear, of ever ending up in the Poor Farm that was at the edge of the small town I grew up in.

What is ironic about the generation that benefited from the New Deal was also the mid-wife to its' current state of near demise when enough of said generation voted for Grandpa Caligula (Reagan).

I simply want to reduce each and every corporation to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.

Very well put and the only thing standing in the way is greed.For even in this you have to follow the money. Tony

It wasn't just political policy, but EROIE--the 40s, 50s, 60s were the apex of per capita energy boom and now those days are over. expect declining standard of living--everything gets more expensive from here on... certainly, we could do better to improve the quality of life and not squander what we have...

mustbefree: uncontrolled greed (...as in Wall Street financial engineering...) is not "natural" (determined by our genes)as some people want us to believe but the result of an ECONOMIC IDEOLOGY that has turned a society based on values like solidarity and economic justice (e.g. New Deal) into a market society where people are encouraged to be selfish,ignorant consumers (the masses, the "herd")on one side and on the other side greedy, power-hungry individuals whose major role is to shape and control the economy to the advantage of a small power-elite (including illegal wars...)

In a nutshell: Politics is no longer about human values ("the common good", justice, etc.) but about serving the needs of the ruling elite at the expense of the majority of the people. This means in essence a refeudalisation of society dressed as a formal democracy (people can express their opinions, vote but their wishes are ignored if not compliant with higher priorities...)

The PR-industry is working hard to keep them (us) "happy" (read: docile)and focused on consuming while silly entertainment and hyped sports-events distract us from more important things... (like what happened to democracy?)

Here is a very good documentary about this subject: (The century of the Self, Part 1-4)

http://video.google.de/videosearch?q=The+century+of+self&sitesearch=

Good Friday 2008 - a sad day, indeed....

First of all I'd like to say that I am a huge fan of Frances Moore Lappé. I have been a vegetarian for 34 years and a vegan for 20 years, and Diet For A Small Planet was one of the things that set me on that path.

Ms. Lappé writes:

Roosevelt still warned that "the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism" ... Might we start by demanding that the 2008 presidential contenders commit to engaging us in living democracy ... ?

According to an article in today's LA Times:

Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, who are running for president as economic populists, are benefiting handsomely from Wall Street donations, easily surpassing Republican John McCain in campaign contributions from the troubled financial services sector ... Some Democrats worry that the influx of money will make their candidates less willing to call for increased regulation of financial markets, which have been in turmoil after a wave of foreclosures on sub-prime mortgages.

Unfortunately it appears that the 2008 presidential contenders from the party of Roosevelt and the New Deal have a notion of "democracy" that is closer to Roosevelt's notion of fascism.

As the author in her quotation from Roosevelt and as minitru imply, the economic "laws" are not immutable natural laws, though the right has invested enormous resources in convincing the unsophisticated that such laws are indeed absolute. As economic processes are removed by several degrees from phenomena that are accurately described by well-understood natural laws, at best the so-called economic laws could only be descriptive in a general way of economic realities of a particular society at a particular point in time, with all that society's particular attributes, e.g. a particular level of technology, population density, distribution of resources, set of values, and perspectives on life and the nature of reality.

And, consistent with minitru's assertions, it appears that economic elites successfully exert pressure on the development of such laws, including with regard to which such laws are communicated to the general public, so that the laws operate to serve the interests of such elites more than to enlighten or educate with regard to the economic realities of the society.

To anybody that had a hand in bringing this to my eyes, thank you. I have long been a proponent of the new deal. If you look merely at anecdotal evidence the new deal becomes so obviously the engine that built the great middle class.

I am always amazed at how the conservatives try to put the credit on the war. We've seen how well a war works at stimulating an economy. I'm no economist, but econ 101 taught me that the multiplier effect is lowest for dollars spent on military. I'm sure they're now teaching that it is just liberal crap.

Paul Krugman's book "The Conscience of a Liberal" explains things quite well.

Even better at showing how conservative policies lead to these problems is a Public Television program I saw called "The Supreme Court." Excellent.

"Might we start by demanding that the 2008 presidential contenders commit to engaging us in living democracy–in community-based deliberation, policy shaping and action, on matters from climate change to ending hunger to reinventing farming so that it sustains both farmers and the land?"

Sure, we can demand all we want - but, according to a recent USA/Gallop poll, 41 million fellow Americans still support Bush, as in, they support the complete opposite of what we would be demanding.

So a candidate "agrees" to our "demand." Great. What do we do about the other 39,999,999?

Excellent. Read this because I wasn't familiar with the author.

Without the stark realities of the consequences of unregulated speculation (the great depression) will the unconvinced be converted? Who knows, but doesn't seem we'll find out, 'cause I'm betting we're in for a really bumpy ride, an even greater depression. No matter which hole in the dike they stick their fingers in, the reality keeps seeping out that the value (wealth) that the system is trading at, doesn't in fact exist. Paper trails, leading in circles. Leveraged beyond comprehension. FUBAR.

Thanks to Frances Moore Lappé for pointing out that economic power is an essential component of political/democratic freedom.

Conservatives have invested economic power with a moralistic quality that says the wealthy have a God-given right to their wealth, that they deserve every bit of it as an act of nature. And government has no legitimate role in redistribution of wealth.

But the natural law at work is actually the universal 80%/20% rule of Pareto. In almost any population, 80% of any commodity is possessed by 20% of the people. It's the "normal distribution", but it is not necessarily moral. It's more like a law of statistics or probability, and not a law of God. And our economic/governmental system now seems to skew the results even further in favor of the wealthy.

To me, it's moral to work against the natural 80%/20% distribution, and mandate economic freedom for all.

"Might we start by demanding that the 2008 presidential contenders commit to engaging us in living democracy–in community-based deliberation, policy shaping and action, on matters from climate change to ending hunger to reinventing farming so that it sustains both farmers and the land?"

Here is a good place to start:

http://www.nationalinitiative.us/

I am a beneficiary of the New Deal. I received a debt free college education and grew up free from want, despite being the product of a single parent household at a time when that was an anathema. My father died in a car accident when I was 4 years old, leaving my widowed mother with three girls, aged 5, 4 and 1, and a baby on the way, my brother. She raised us alone on Daddy's Social Security and VA survivor's benefits, and when each of us came to college age, we received a portion of Daddy's Social Security and VA survivor's benefits to attend college, thus allowing all four of us to attend college debt free.

What the right does not seem to realize is that when government makes this kind of investment in its people, only good things can result. Our generation grew up, thanks to the New Deal and its social safety net, the most prosperous and comfortable generation thanks to our parents sacrifices. The men of the WWII generation were able to attend college on the GI Bill and as a result, became the best educated and the most prosperous generation ever. Their ingenuity and education allowed us to enjoy unparalleled comfort, created a middle class and pioneered so many of the advances we enjoy now, like cell phones, microwave ovens, computers, digital TV and so many other spinoffs of the space age.

The right doesn't seem to get it that dismantling the social safety net is the fastest road to economic disparity, poverty and a widening of the gap between rich and poor. They're clueless about what they aim to achieve in their touting of the "ownership society". They're destroying this country in the same way that the rampaging hoards of Visigoths and others managed to destroy Rome. But then, most of these people would not be caught dead with a history book in their hands anyway.

I just hope that the next President can resurrect the New Deal for the 21st century and put our country back on track again. But then, I don't count on anyone to fix anytime soon what the Bush administration has so badly broken and that will take generations to repair. May history condemn them as the worst administration ever.

Here's why our DLC Dims have rejected FDR:

90% tax on earned income over $6mn (adj for inflation <- 1930's)

53% tax on unearned income.

50+% tax on mega-estates.

Wagner Act.

Glass-Steagall.

That's all. That's what you demand, to begin with. See just how fast all those Dims vacate the premises. That's your Dimocracy in action, running away. No doubt they noticed how the money was evaporating from their pockets and realized they needed another infusion from their richfilth corporate masters. That's who they work for, not us.

Will Obama change that? Will we DEMAND it from whoever wears the American Purple? Will they, whoever they are, as head Overseer on the Plantation, tell you to shut up and go away or they will taser you, gas you, microwave you? Is that your Dimocracy? Let's see if I remember:

Democracy is where the government fears the People.

Tyranny is where the People fear the government.

Answer that for yourself. Who's afraid now?

Just asking.

Pieces of 8.

For a few months now, I have been saying something like SallyUUKent has said in her comments above: The New Deal and GI bill (and increased government spending for the war) not only helped the poor out of the depression; it was the best thing that ever happened for capitalism. By helping the homeless and poor, creating the safety net, the strong middle class, and support for relatively consistent consumer confidence, the rich have reaped many benefits. This is nothing like the socialism people characterize the New Deal to have been. The short-sighted greedy, and some of the propagandized, Republican-voting middle-class and poor don't get it: It's in the best interests of THE RICH to have the New Deal and GI Bill, etc., not to chip away at them.

The new military will be a mercenary one of mostly foreign members if the neocons get their way. The current volunteer force is not willing to do absolutely anything, but mercenaries will and in total secret. A drafted army would have been impossible to force into Iraq. The volunteer one is balking. Notice the mercenaries are not complaining and no one keeps the death toll.

When all the capital is extracted here the mercenary army can be turned on their former employers (US taxpayers). The former employers might join up if they are desperate enough.

SallyUUKent, Excellent post!
Sally, may I offer a suggestion? Go to www.mercola.com and ask for advice. I can't get on your website with my computer???

SALLY UU KENT: Very moving post.

VINCE LAWRENCE: I wonder about all that's being artificially held together now, too. I believe it's the Hindus who refer to the physical plane (what Westerners call reality) as MAYA, the plane of illusion. With that being said, since money is itself OFF the gold standard, and thus more or less a currency that exists on the basis of symbolism/numbers, why can't the paper/symbol just keep flowing so long as everyone goes along with the game?

The right wing Repubs, with the help of the fundamentalists, know exactly what they are doing to peoples lives and just do not care, as long as they have theirs. It was the same with the war, send the boys and girls over to die for their glorious causes of democracy, liberation, etc. Does anyone think the Bushco really cares about any of the people over there, be it ours or theirs?

The pigs in power are aware that their downsizing government will make life unbearable for many people, and know quite well the trickle down philosophy is nothing but a joke. However, with their war games, there is no downsizing, just more and more until the country fails.

Remember the tax cuts were across the board, which sounded fair to any misinformed people, who did not realize their pittance was nothing compared to the thousands handed to the rich. We have the most rotten administration in the history of the country and their sickness and greed is spreading to others more every year.

FDR was called a traitor to his class in the 1930s when it became clear what he was accomplishing. A "Traitor to his Class!" Yes, that means that Class War in America has been raging for a hundred years. And it has been waged by the wealthy on the rest of society. Some of the front-line troops in this war are the lobbyists mentioned in the article. Read General Smedley Butler's book on how other people have been 'used' in this ongoing war.

But every time a tax-increase or other progressive idea is suggested, these same upper-class warriors scream that this is an unfair 'class war' idea. What hypocrites. What liars. They know damn well that they are the ones running class war, and that they are winning. And they will amorally do anything to win this war, including using the tax codes and the national financial system against the people, and including pretending to be shocked at the mention of class war.

FDR was beloved by the vast majority of the American people because his policies were the closest thing to socialism they ever had. His actions salvaged the nation from the destruction wrought on it by the last Capitalist Pig Operation against the people and the nation, which is now called The Great Depression. And as the article indicates, his policies built America into a progressive nation working towards justice for all and the real Four Freedoms. He enabled the quest for liberty of generations of Americans, until that paid-corporate-spokestoady Reagan started the tax backlash of the wealthy. The nation has been on a downhill class war course since then, and the decline of America has greatly sped up under the current cretinous President Bush, easily the worst American president ever, in all categories.

However, much of FDR's progressive program was amazingly blocked by Republicans of THAT period, until World War Two scared the right-wingers into opening the death grip they had on the money system. As always, the Republicans will give any amount of money for War to kill those they perceive as trying to get their stuff! But they will not pay anything for preserving Life Itself or for a decent existence for others! And the only government welfare or bailouts allowed are for the financial upper class, not for the 'rabble' of the rest of us.

It is outlandish that the current American President made a big deal about Jesus Christ being his favorite philosopher. Because it seems he has totally ignored that philosopher during his entire presidency. In fact, he has followed a completely Contrarian path from that of his 'favorite philosopher'. It seems in reality this president's favorite philosopher must be Alestair Crowley, whose most famous phrase is 'do as thou wilt' and who worshipped Satan, like Dick Cheney apparently does, too.

It is evident that the current administration sees government service as an opportunity to grab whatever they can from the people's government. Unlike true servants of the people, they do not believe in service, they just pretend they do for public consumption, as a front. Really, they believe in self-aggrandizement, greed, selfishness, fraud and grand larceny... just like the CEOs they say they emulate.

As we now sadly realize, it is finally self-evident that a government 'run like a business' is a complete and obscene failure. It is a farce that lets the thieves guard the jewels. Like Dillinger replied when asked why he robbed banks, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld and the Bush Crime Family should truthfully reply when asked why they got into government service, "becaue that's where the money is!"

These criminals are waging class war against the American people and the American Constitution, but they will never ever tell the people the truth. Like the guilty murderer, they will not openly admit to their crimes, as their punishment would be, should be, extremely severe.

We must find our way again like the generation of the 1930s, that turned to socialism for the sake of world humanity and for the sake of every citizen in this nation. We must admit, like they did, that class war is real and ongoing.

The people must demand that this class war waged against them must end, and the servants of the people must return to being just that, our servants not our masters, not our kings, not our extortionists. And that includes the President and the Congress and the Supreme Court, all of which have been subverted, by right-wing corporate-toady con-meisters, from their true roles in our lives according to the Constitution.

Context is everything. Vital factors in moving Roosevelt in such a progressive direction included an collapsed US economy and more importantly A STRONG LEFT. The Communist Party was strong and influential as was organized labor. Also, the existence of the USSR created an ideological competition in which the condition of working people was important. Lastly, the strong presence and involvement of Eleanor Roosevelt, a brilliant, empathetic and progressive leader, must be acknowledged.

The presence of a strong left in other countries has resulted in national health care, a strong safety net and worker security that we do not enjoy in the US. Instead our money funds the military and related industries. This is the result of McCarthyism's attacks of the left and labor from which we have yet to recover. That defeat gave rise to the national security state and the monopolization of every facet of our society by corporate interests who are still engaged in an anti-communist class war against anything that threatens that monopoly.

"Given the New Deal's powerful grounding in freedom and the striking advances it ushered in for most Americans, why was the right able to reverse the New Deal in just one generation? "

In a word, stupidity. The right had a very charasmatic leader (Reagan) that convinced people government was bad, and that the private sector could solve problems better than government. The implication was that big government was equal to socialism, and the Democratic party supported big government, so they should be demonized. And he loved to use the 'L' word slogan to bring that demonization on..

And people bought it, and still do. I've seen several articles on how people buy into the propaganda of the right at their own expense. Not only that, but supporting right wingers has become part of several religions who see free markets as God's way, and who would never support Democrats due to abortion and civil unions/gay marriage. They have no concept of true equality or freedom. These are those who would turn us into a theocracy if they could.

We've lost true democracy because Corporate America hoodwinked the populace into thinking it could create prosperity and opportunity more than government. And one of the first things they did was weaken unions, and it has all gone down hill ever since.

Unfortunately, I don't see it changing back. I can only hope that Obama, with his rhetoric against corporations will be elected and prove that it was more than rhetoric. I think the people are going to elect Democrats in droves due to the war and all the illegal activities of the Bush administration, and the arrogance of Republican leaders in Congress. But it will take someone able to move people to affect a real change, and I see him as the only option available for that.

McCain and Clinton are insiders. That in and of itself doesn't mean they couldn't make big changes, but it just doesn't feel that they would, especially McCain. But there is something about Obama that gives hope.

So, I will vote for him and hope he follows through..

The New Deal had good parts and bad parts. Some of the economic controls hindered economic activity. Ag rules and Supreme Court decisions about them (Wickard v Filburn) gave us the Raich decision.

Helping the poor and unemployed was worthwhile but it did not pull poor people out of the depression and in 1945 the powers that be were scared to death that as soon as soldiers got home it would be 1938 all over again. So much for faith in capitalism! So, we got good things like the GI Bill of Rights but we got bad things like the National Security State. Many were afraid to dismantle the military machine for economic reasons.

Roosevelt admired Mussolini and helped undermine Upton Sinclair's run for Governor of California.

The problem today is debt from Hell. We will go nowhere until we get a handle on that. Among other things, We need a Constitutional Amendment that simply states "No business/corporate entity will be considered 'Too Big to Fail' and no tax dollars will be used for this purpose. Corporate entities will not be entitled to full protection under the First Amendment, free speech being limited to truthful commercial speech". Then we can go from there. Instant Runoff Voting would be nice.

You have to fix the systemic problems first, repeal legislation of the 90's (the repeal of banking laws of the 30's, Telec Act of 1996, NCLB, etc and while we're at it, defund the World Bank and IMF) and pay down debt.

John F. Butterfield said:

I simply want to reduce each and every corporation to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.

BRAVO! I couldn't agree more!

Peaceman said:

SallyUUKent, Excellent post!
Sally, may I offer a suggestion? Go to www.mercola.com and ask for advice. I can't get on your website with my computer???

Thank you, Peaceman. I still wear my 1979 Kent State University class ring to remind myself that I received that B.A. degree debt free thanks to my father's sacrifices in WWII and FDR's Social Security program that allowed our family to survive with dignity after my father's premature death.

We had a roof over our heads, growing up in a small story-and-a-half Cape Cod bungalow that my mother bought after my father died because the rented house we were in at the time was too small with one more child on the way, we had food on the table - yes, my mother was often forced to stretch budgets to feed four hungry children, but she always managed to do so with no problems. We didn't travel like our friends did to exotic places like Florida on spring breaks or other vacation spots, but we always found ways to amuse ourselves at home. My mother used to make our clothes and we regularly handed them down to younger siblings when we outgrew them (well, except for our brother, who always got new clothes, being the only boy in the family!). We recycled, repaired and reused as much as possible.

But we never wanted for anything. Ours was a home filled with love, music, books, pets and lifelong learning. Sure, we didn't have a lot of money growing up, but Daddy's VA and Social Security survivor's benefits kept a roof over our heads, food on the table, clothes on our backs and allowed us to grow up in dignity and relative comfort despite not having a breadwinner father there and a single mother raising four children on government pension.

I've never forgotten that. I don't make a lot of money now at my job, live as frugally as I can, but I'm struggling now with rising gas and food prices, medical bills and other unforeseen expenses. I'm five years out from retirement and I don't know how I'm going to make it on my PERS pension. I suspect I'm going to have to get another job to supplement my income so that I can live without crushing debt. I don't see any big fixes on the horizon, even if a Democrat wins the White House and even if Dems capture large majorities in the Senate and Congress.

Fact is, I'm scared. Rightfully so. My generation were taught that if we went to college and completed a degree, a job would be guaranteed us and that we'd be set for life. Well, I got out of college during another big economic downturn and it took me four years to land a decent job. I did odd jobs before that, but nothing permanent. So I got a late start on my career and have nothing to show for those four years of odd jobbing. Sure, I've now got 25 years in at my career and am on the excellent Ohio PERS program that will pay me 68% of my final three highest salaries when I retire, but even that's probably not going to be enough to survive what is looking more and more like a long term economic slide that will take years from which to recover.

I feel betrayed by my own generation's stupidity and greed. How soon they all forget the lessons of their parents generation and their sacrifices for us, their progeny. We've screwed the world for our offspring and their descendents. And it's not going to get any better anytime soon, either.

How very sad. The New Dealers must be rolling in their graves knowing how badly our generation seemed to desire the complete dismantling of everything they worked for to create a comfortable middle class that was the bulwark of the American economy and is no more and may never be again.

Oh, and as for my web site, try this:

http://treecitytimes.blogspot.com

and see if that works.

Task 1: sustainable energy independence that fights global warming.

We need 100 million buildings with solar assists (hot water, heat) and with tighter doors and windows and insulation.

We need 100 gigawatts (at least) of either wind, solar or geothermal electricity, whichever is cheaper regionally. 25,000 wind turbines alone would do this job, and we have far more than enough wind potential. (Self-sufficient backyard electricity is preferred to monopoly electric systems.) We also need to upgrade the country's transportation capacity to high voltage DC lines, the kind that don't cause any leukemia at all and can carry electricity thousands of miles without losses. Then we need storage capacity for a few weeks of electricity, either through pumped hydropower or underground air pressure storage, again, whichever is cheaper and less ecologically disruptive.

Next, we need an electric-source above-grade automated personal rapid transit system in every city. These transit systems should be at least a factor of ten cheaper, in total, than tearing up the land for freeways and sitting in traffic every day burning fumes and getting in horrible wrecks caused by drunk drivers. Oh, and commuting could be faster and more enjoyable.

The New Deal was reversed so quickly because it was a half measure. Roosevelt was forced to rescue Capitalism because there were actual socialist solutions in the public consciousness. Reagan took office toward the end of the 50 year Global War on Socialism, which Bush has replaced with the Global War on Terrorism, the common thread being rule by fear.

But socialist ideas are not completely dead, and, since it is a better way to organize society, they will eventually prevail.

I don't believe in the concept of a "middle class," by the way. It is just a ploy of the ruling class to divide the working class. There is no reason at all for there to be a large segment of our society on the edge of survival with little access to health care, limited food supply, poor education and homelessness either real or threatened.

If people are united and demand true democratic and egalitarian organization of society a better world IS possible.

Siouxrose: Hey there. You always go for the mystical and the spiritual, but to my mind what is happening in the financial/corporate world is pretty simple - maybe I'm wrong.

The percieved total value of what is in the market is based on the prospect of increasing future returns. As long as the system was moving along with all players agreeing this was likely to continue, everthing was OK. There would be failures but it wouldn't be systematic. The problem is that activity of modern industrial society is highly dependent on cheap abundant energy. Petroleum. All summer long, speculators ran up the price of crude, beyond what the actual supply/demand might have justified. Maybe for the first time here in the U.S. we got a reallife lesson in the true "cost" of non-renewable. All of a sudden, with the reality of permanent and increasing costs for fuel, the actual value of many industries and commodities would have to be re-evaluated, and many probably don't have the return potential investors were counting on.

Sorry, I was trying to find a way to say this simply. Another try: Investors have speculated the value of the market beyond reality. Just like before the last big crash. Without the harsh consequences of that crash FDR probably wouldn't have been able to make the New Deal.

I'm not looking forward to trying to survive an economic collapse, and who knows if we'll respond with anything like the progressive accomplishments of FDR and that movement. I'd like to think so, but then I thought long ago that by now we would be more respectful of the realities of living on a closed planet.

heavyrunner, Very good comments. The "middle class" caste system has always been about divide and conquer.

Contrary to what we were taught in school about him, Julius Ceasar wanted an egalitarian society and was killed by the ruling class. In every society, both ancient and modern, the extremely wealthy have more money than they can ever spend but deny basic necessities to the ones producing the wealth for them.

Someday people will figure out how they have been getting screwed by the rulling class and actually do something about it. Untill it happens, the standard of living will continue spiralling downward until society returns to a fuedalistic state with royalty, serfs, and indentured servants.

In the meantime, gie them plenty of sports, Nascar, sleazy entertainment and false religious indoctrination and that will keep them happy.

"I simply want to reduce each and every corporation to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."

Mr. Butterfield, thank you! That's the first laugh I've had in a long time.

Vince Lawrence: The problem is that activity of modern industrial society is highly dependent on cheap abundant energy. Petroleum.

The economy expands accordingly as the labor pool (population) expands and productivity (technical advances) expands. Unfortunately, the capitalist extremists discarded Adam Smith's market rules and feverishly embraced the goal of economic expansion by any means possible, so natural resource consumption (especially petroleum) had to expand too, very rapidly, so the economy could expand very rapidly, so the capitalists could dominate the society, and the world, more thoroughly.

Some people say we have to reduce our consumption. The simplicity is beautiful, but the idea is not rationally anchored to anything. We really need to return to Adam Smith's market rules which constrain our industrial activity to that which serves the society's better interests, and it's not the capitalists who determine these, rather it is the consensus of informed and responsible citizens, a majority of people, the public. So our consumption is properly anchored, that is, the economy becomes well-regulated, or calibrated to the size that best serves the society.

VINCE LAWRENCE: I realize fuel costs went up and that's driving up costs of things like milk. The whole system is its own illusion, granted, some of that illusion is tied to ACTUAL commodities, some of which are limited resources. I was not born to be an economist, but I have studied the spiritual laws and try to apply the lessons... sometimes the fit is easy, other times a good deal of "poetic license" is called for. In this time of madness masquerading as leadership (and/or ordinary reality), I think we should grant a lot of room to options customarily perceived as outside "the box." Resurrection, anyone?

"In this time of madness masquerading as leadership (and/or ordinary reality), I think we should grant a lot of room to options customarily perceived as outside "the box.""

Hear, hear. And may we have the wisdom to recognize those options when we see them (we won't find them in the usual places).

Well I don't know about anyone else, but I've been facing the realities of feeding a family of 4 (2 children), and the grocery bill has almost doubled in a relatively short period of time--and is continuing to rise. One starts to wonder where the 'cut back' limit is in that regard, illusion or no. So much for those cravings (ha, ha). It's always interesting when you watch newscasts like CNN, and hear them say: "when you don't factor in gas or food, inflation is low..." Then you wonder, who can avoid buying either of those two?

As far as our government goes, they've been 'anti-new deal' for quite some time now, and the evilers who run things got us spitting on one another, saying or implying that if you're poor you deserve it, and that helping those folks is what keeps everyone else's taxes so high. Wow, they have really done a head job on the electorate who, ironically, are themselves inching closer to the poverty line every day. Futher, it looks like things are going to get a lot more difficult in that regard before they get better. And this poster thinks that only the consciousness of compassion and love can turn things around and create a society that is self-sustaining. Before that happens in America, though, a lot of 'letting go' has to take place.

The New Deal was pragmatism personified, and went through various stages. Inevitably there were mistakes.
NO use quoting Krugman - he is still in short pants and knows little history. I like Barton Bernstein's take in an article titled 'The New Deal: The Conservative Achievements of Liberal Reform', in his edited collection, Towards a New Past: Dissenting Essays in American History, Vintage, 1969.
That is, the New Deals achievements were conservative (in the real sense of the word) - they saved the system from itself.
ANother New Deal is needed, for precisely the same reasons. But where is the personnel? Non-existent.

I was born in 1936. My family never recovered from the depression. However, I was intelligent and hard working. I started working part-time at 16 and saved money for my education.

At that time, tuition was low, jobs were available (albeit, as a woman I was paid less), and with good grades, you could get a scholarship that paid some of the tuition.

Many of us who wanted an education put everything we owned in a couple of shopping bags, took the Greyhound bus to the university town, found a job, and worked to get our degree. It worked for us. We lived poorly but could manage.

There was also a different attitude toward poverty. Perhaps people remembered that respectable people lacked work during the depression. At any rate, we may have been poor but we were respected.

I doubt that I could have managed it in the world of today.