US House Passes Spy Bill, Rejects Phone Immunity
WASHINGTON - The Democratic-led U.S. House of Representatives defied President George W. Bush on Friday and passed an anti-terrorism spy bill that permits lawsuits against phone companies.But the 213-197 vote was far short of the two-thirds majority needed to override a promised veto by Bush. He has demanded that any telecommunication company that participated in his warrantless domestic spying program secretly begun after the Sept. 11 attacks receive retroactive immunity.
The battle over whether to shield companies has been a key reason why the House and Senate have been unable to agree on a bill to replace a law that expired last month that expanded U.S. authority to track enemy targets without a court order.
It has also prompted Republicans to accuse Democrats of undermining national security, while Democrats have accused Bush and his fellow Republicans of election-year fear mongering.
“It is time to reject the scare tactics of the Bush administration and enact this carefully crafted legislation,” said Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat.
White House spokesman Tony Fratto fired back: “Their bill would make it easier for class-action trial lawyers to sue companies whose only offense is that they are alleged to have assisted in efforts to protect the country after the attacks of Sept. 11.”
About 40 lawsuits have accused AT&T Inc., Verizon Communications Inc and Sprint Nextel Corp of violating the privacy rights of law-abiding Americans swept up in the electronic surveillance of phone calls and e-mails. Damages could total in the billions of dollars.
Closed-Door Court
While the House-passed bill would not grant immunity, it would allow phone companies to present their cases in a closed-door court, with the judge given access to confidential documents about the surveillance and the authorization for it.
The bill would revamp the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to keep up with ever-changing technology, like e-mails, which didn’t exist when the law was written.
The measure would also expand U.S. spy power, but not as much as the administration has demanded. In addition, it would increase congressional and judicial oversight.
Bush has backed a competing bill overwhelmingly approved by the Senate last month that would bolster U.S. electronic surveillance and grant phone companies retroactive immunity.
The House bill was approved shortly before lawmakers left for a two-week recess, leaving behind questions about if and when the House and Senate can agree on a measure to send Bush to sign into law.
House Republican Whip Roy Blunt said, “The security of the country over the next two weeks while we’re gone will not be what it would have been if we would have passed the (Senate) bill today in a bipartisan majority.”
House Democratic leader Steny Hoyer accused the administration of “trying to stampede this Congress into passing the Senate bill. This Congress owes the American people more than blind obeisance to the executive branch.”
Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, Bush authorized warrantless surveillance. Critics charged he broke the law, while Bush says he had the war-time power to do it. He later put the program under FISA court supervision. Terms remain secret.
(Additional reporting by Richard Cowan and David Alexander)
© 2008 Reuters
The White House would be open to lawsuits, that is the motivation.
Rich
cheney and bush will be impeached, that’s the motivation. “Bush has demanded retroactive immunity…” We demand the truth about the depth of the dragnet and their lies.
I wonder why the msm or anyone bring up the fact that they were spying before 9/11 and nobody on the dem side brought it up either. Tony
Bravo to the House Democrats so long as they resist King George. Given that he is so eager to whitewash the telephone companies’ lawbreaking at his behest, Democrats should complain he wants a PHONY surveillance bill. The pun is terrible but memorable.
No, no, no! Warrantless surveillance began BEFORE 9/11, months before.
The Dem’s are morally bankrupt. Hope does not reside in their hapless and gutless over-compromised decisions. They are just positioning themselves to collect tribute from the telecoms to be used in this years elections. Then, after the elections they will grant the telecoms immunity. They care nothing about the American people as their rhetoric suggests. They care only about themselves and their corporate benefactors. To believe otherwise is hubris. The Dem’s will promise the moon but give you breadcrumbs. They too are rotten to the core. They are moral jello.
So…the security of the nation depends on..Warrantless wiretaps?..sooo..a warrant and some form of actual court involvement..I mean we are a nation of…”laws” is somehow detrimental?
It amazes me that even the Dems do not make a public statement to the effect:
“HOW DOES LACK OF JUDICIAL OVERSIGHT EQUATE TO HELPING THE TERRORISTS?”
It also amazes me that the repugnicans and the entire corporate fascist theocracy can make these..phenomenally hypocritical statements without any..logical..as in the logic of debate…repercussions from others in government..not just the “fear mongering” retort..but rather a “read between the lines” retort that explains to the american citizen…who…lacks a sense of..verbal finesse..to show them what is REALLY BEING SAID BY THE REPUGNICANS..to whit..that to allow the judicial process when it comes to corporate corruption of the legal system is tantamount to “helping the terrorists” in other words..if you believe that the Corporate Fascist Theocracy should be held accountable for their illegal activities..you are an..enemy combatant! and you know what? Read the Military Commisiions Act for a real masters of Terror reality check…because you ARE THE ENEMY COMBATANT…the defining guidelines are SO FLIMSY that essentially ANYONE can be classified as the “Enemy” and the REPUGNICANS are really coming..dangerously close to this kind of rhetoric more and more frequently..I predict it will be quite soon that we will actually hear..”you are a terrorist” said to a Dem for not “obeying” Der Junior…eg. you are helping the enemy..therefore you ARE the ENEMY..
And finally..and yet again and ad nauseum…I say to you..
YOU ARE PAYING FOR ALL OF IT..YOU SHOULD BE ANGRY..YOU SHOULD ARGUE AND DEBATE..YOU SHOULD BE HOPPING MAD AND SCARED SHITLESS…BUT YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS IN THE END…SO YOU ARE IN FACT COMPLICIT…YOUR MONEY IS BEING USED TO STRIP YOU OF YOUR RIGHTS…HOW IRONIC.. AND THE REALLY SAD AND ALARMIONG FACTOR IS THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO PAY DESPITE THE …FACTUAL AND UNAVOIDABLE REALITY THAT YOU ARE IN FACT MAKING ALL OF THIS POSSIBLE..YOU WILL RATIONALIZE AWAY THE ONE POWER YOU ACTUALLY HAVE LEFT..THE POWER OF THE PURSE..YOU DO NOT NEED TO PICK UP AN AK-47 TO CRASH THIS ROGUE “GOVERNMENT” AND ALL OF DUPLICITOUS ACTIONS, THIS ABSOLUTLEY UNDENIABLY OUT OF CONTROL FEDERAL ANIMAL THAT IS DESTROYING…DAILY..THE FREEDOMS SO HARD WON ONLY 230 YEARS AGO…AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS..”NOT DECLARE” THAT IS ALL..AND THE 10 MILLION OF YOU WHO ARE SO PISSED OFF, AS AM I, AND WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT..AND COULD…WILL NOT..BECAUSE IN THE END YOUR COMFORTS AND YOUR CONVENIANCES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO YOU..I AM SORRY TO SAY THIS, AS I FEEL THAT MOST OF YOU ARE GETTING IT RIGHT INTELLECTUALLY…AS IF IT MATTERED WHAT I THINK..DUHH..BUT THE FACT THAT YOU WILL NOT TAKE ACTION OUT OF FEAR OF RETRIBUTION FROM THE VERY GOVERNMENT YOU WISH SO DESPERATELY TO CHANGE..IS…DISHEARTENING…YOU COULD CHANGE THINGS SO EASILY..SO EASILY..WHAT IF 10 MILLION ..MORE…OF YOU JUST DIDN’T PAY THIS APRIL? CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW QUICKLY WE WOULD SEE A TURN AROUND? WHAT CAN THEY DO? WITHOUT THE MONEY AND THE TACIT SUPPORT THAT IT IMPLIES..THEY ARE ALL DONE…THEY NEED EVERY THIN DIME..PERIOD..AND YOU ARE GIVING IT TO THEM..PERIOD..
SO STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE..FOR REAL..PUT YOUR INCOME TAXES WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS..AND WHERE YOUR MIND IS..AND ACTUALLY STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN AND SAY..”NOT IN MY NAME” I WILL NOT PAY THE SALLERY OF A MAN OR WOMAN IN UNIFORM OR EVEN WITH JUST A …”LAMINATE” THAT IS TORTURING A CONFESSION OUT OF A “SUSPECT”. I WILL NOT PAY THE SALLERY OF A PRESIDENT THAT SIMPLY IGNORES ANY ASPECT OF ANY LAW HE FEELS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO CONSOLIDATE POWER INTO THE HANDS OF A DOZEN INDIVIDUALS..I WILL NOT PAY…FOR I BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY AND THE CONSTITUTION AND I WILL NOT BE COMPLICIT IN IT’S DESTRUCTION, COMPLICIT IN ILLEGAL WARS, COMPLICIT IN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE ENVIRONMNET…AND ON AND ON…
SO THIS IS WAHT YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE…THIS IS IT..YOU CAN MARCH, YOU CAN YELL AND SHOUT AND POST REPLIES..BUT YOU ARE PAYING THE SALLERIES OF THE PEOPLE WHO HATE YOU FOR YOUR FREEDOMS…OUR GOVERNMENT…YOU MAKE IT ALL POSSIBLE..PERIOD…SO DON’T…OR..I AM SORRY TO SAY…SHUT UP!
jcrumb…I have seen this string of commenting from you before…and given it some thought. I agree, we are complicit and it is ironic that we are paying for it…and if only vast numbers of us would refuse to pay…. BUT, there are MANY holes in your theory…Most of us don’t pay a thing in April..we fill out our forms to get a refund from what our employers have sent in all year long…as they are required by law to do. If you don’t pay your taxes, it is my understanding that after a while they garnish your wages and get their money anyway??? Many of us have children, and though we may wish to be noble as to the cause of sacrificing our ” lives, fortunes and sacred honor” for the cause of American Democracy..the reality is, I’m not going to do all that while I have children to raise….But the reality also is that I can see that I may live to regret such a choice…We here all see a different vision from most. When I tell friends and relatives how dire things are in my vision..they suggest I see a psychiatrist..or take some pills…It’s not all that bad…they say…I remember studying the antebellum south and wondering why all the slaves didn’t just rise up…or the Jews in Germany for that matter…in each instance they outnumbered their captors by huge numbers at many times. And I see your suggestion here in the same light…you are right…but it’s all a matter of critical mass…and that isn’t anywhere near happening YET. And ’til it does, all we’ll get for our trouble is trouble…
oh yeah…AND not having the money doesn’t seem to stop the current government anyway. Deficit spending is all the rage right now, if you haven’t noticed.
thinkingmom, you can reduce your taxable income to zero by working fewer hours in establishment-connected jobs and working more hours in building and maintaining your house/car and growing your own food. When you switch over, then you become part of the solution, and you are able to lend support to others who are doing it. Any discussion you get into you will be able to very effectively argue against the establishment and for the alternative. It builds your confidence and peace of mind to get out from under the thumb of the establishment. This is how it was meant to be - all of the enlightenment thinking supports it, and plenty other sources argue for individual independence from the establishment. A good policy is to ask bureaucrats the reasoning behind the policy. If they can’t provide you a satisfactory answer then announce to the bureaucracy that you are rejecting it, then reject it. Teach your children that the government should fear the people. People should treat each other as equals. But the bureaucracy should be treated as a machine that may be beaten up or destroyed when necessary. And the larger the bureaucracy, the more important the threat to destroy it. The federal government should always be under threat of destruction, the corporations too, and all large organizations.
House Republican Whip Roy Blunt might be right. It all depends on your definition of what it is we are seeking “security” from.
I love it when I hear that “Spying only began AFTER Sept. 11th 2001.” I’m sure a lot of you CD readers are all aware of COINTELPRO and their “…Pin point potential trouble makers and neutralize them…” The government has been spying on people for years just under different names!
jcrumb:
i’d like to add that 230 years ago, no real freedoms were won, as you might have it. what the revolution accomplished was the changing hands of a system of control, from the landed & wealthy aristocracy of england to the landed & wealthy aristocracy on these shores. the new government was designed to protect this “minority of the opulent” (those are james madison’s own words–) from the dangerous majority. even thomas jefferson, who wrote so nobly of equality–owned slaves until the day he died. our fathers–not to be confused with the “founding fathers”–have never been free, and so the struggle continues.
depending, of course…on who’s version of history you read.
thinkingmom,
i am loath to consider post 9-11 america amongst the downtrodden of history–i do have hope that while history is doomed to repeat, we are in fact headed for that critical mass that will at last right the imbalance this planet sees. be it a nuclear holocaust, a climate-change disaster, or otherwise, the complex natural systems that govern this planet (the ones we as a species fail to comprehend) do have a way of purging the virus every so often…unfortunately, we humans are the virus (with shoes). and so, the meek will inherit the earth after all–the deserving ones–namely, plants, animals…i take comfort in the thought that one day, life will flourish on this rock without humans to muck it all up.
rtdrury,
can you elaborate at all on the reducing of taxable income to zero?
“It has also prompted Republicans to accuse Democrats of undermining national security, while Democrats have accused Bush and his fellow Republicans of election-year fear mongering.”
How about undermining the very foundations of this country? That has a bit more teeth than this typical lame response from the Dems.
“White House spokesman Tony Fratto fired back: “Their bill would make it easier for class-action trial lawyers to sue companies whose only offense is that they are alleged to have assisted in efforts to protect the country after the attacks of Sept. 11.”
Well Mr. Fratto, if those companies didn’t break the law and their only offense was “that they are alleged to have assisted in efforts to protect the country”, they have absolutely nothing to worry about.
The repukes leave themselves open for so many devastating rebuttals and attacks, but rarely are they ever called on it.
Every article I can find is focused on the House defying Bush and refusing to give the Telco’s immunity. Wow, those courageous House Dems.
What happened to the discussions about the expansion of warrantless wiretapping? If I recall correctly, didn’t Dem’s say they were rushed into approving a prior bill that expanded the government’s ability to spy without judicial oversight? Isn’t this bill doing the same thing?
This all looks like sleight-of-hand to me. Look at the telcom immunity and ignore the rest of the bill.
The facts have shown that the intelligence on the planned hi-jacking was known by the CIA before 9/11, yet the department did not act on it’s information. What, if any, will change after the passing of their (Republican) bill?
What a pathetic display. It’s hard to believe that the most reviled President in US history can wring this kind of response from Congress.
It’s way past obvious that campaign finance reform is needed.
Of course, once a bill with some actual balls gets passed, the installed Supremes will knock it back. We’re screwed.
As a friend of mine from here emailed me, presuming as we all do the reverse logic here,
blow job in the oval office = IMPEACHMENT
murdering others children = LEGACY
Thanks bill
“House Republican Whip Roy Blunt said, “The security of the country over the next two weeks while we’re gone will not be what it would have been if we would have passed the (Senate) bill today in a bipartisan majority.””
Listen to the mockingbird: Bus$hit is now Blunt$hit. Nothing has changed to secure the country over the next two weeks; the domestic spying will continue as usual. In fact, I was talking to a friend last night and heard the intermittent clicks that are so obvious.
It’s fairly obvious that Blunt, like most of our corporate-controlled politicians is concerned with potential lawsuits after these corporations by-passed the FISA laws. They are criminals, regardless of “who” asked them to wiretap.
Across the Country:
414 Resolutions Upholding Civil Liberties and Rights
http://www.bordc.org/index.php
The people are getting fed-up with the Federal Government’s abuse of power!
It has also prompted Republicans to accuse Democrats of undermining national security, while Democrats have accused Bush and his fellow Republicans of election-year fear mongering.
No one has undermined national security! And the Republican’s know it. If they need to eavesdrop all they have to do is get a warrant which are easy to obtain. They don’t even have to wait to do it. They can obtain one within 48 hours of when they have started their wiretapping. This is more Republican fairy tales! All it’s about is Bush harboring his fellow big business lawbreakers. He wants it to where big business can do what ever it damned well pleases and never be held accountable! The Democrat’s need to continue to pass legislation like this and let him veto it! Maybe eventually people will wise up to who is undermining national security! Not that we have had any in the last 7 years since the creep has been in office.
ctrl-z March 16th, 2008 1:04 am
“This all looks like sleight-of-hand to me.”
Nailed it!
A secret, back room deal designed to make the DimWits look “courageous” after nothing but cave-in after cave-in and refusal to impeach. I agree with ctrl-z, emphasis is put on the part that makes Dims look good while the part about expanding government police state powers is given short shrift. The Dims can “appear” to stand up to Bush while giving him even more power. Too little too late.
!2 Dims voted against it, 1 voted present and 7 voted present.
Dump the Dims, change yourself and then join a 3rd party and help to build it up.
I just don’t get it.
Congress has been happily passing unconstitutional surveillance acts ever since (and including) the FISA Act. I mean, come on now, retroactive warrants? How far have we sunk as a people that we regard FISA as moderate and just?
And now the House Democrats are playing Kabuki Thea-taaaaah on us again, pretending to be brave and defiant when we know they’ll only cave on us yet again. Why they’re even bothering to act like Defenders of the Constitution is entirely beyond me–maybe they’re holding out for bigger donations from the telecoms?
Come on people. What’s with all the negative banter.
Take a little good news and enjoy it for a couple of weeks!
Focus your energies on more important issues; like say convincing your congressionals to move ahead with Impeachment proceedings. It Is Not Too Late!
Did anyone read this shit they voted on? It does not matter, why would you think Kucinich voted Nay? They never define ‘Terrorist’, anyone here without documents, you do not get a thing, no lawyer, no bye kiss my ass, WTF do you think they are going to do bake them a cake? Good as dead.
This an Amended Amendement, the actual fight will be with ‘Restore America Act of 2007′ on the Senates Calendar, oh joy of F$$KING USA LIFE!!!
pete7651:
I think what rtdrury is suggesting is working under-the-table jobs where you get paid in cash so that the money you earn is under the radar of the government. Then you don’t have to pay income tax on it. However, as another option you can work an official job and just work less. All you really have to do is make less than the taxable income, which varies depending on if you are single, married, or have any dependents. If you are in the lowest wage bracket you only pay social security and nothing else.
I’ve been successful at this by working a lot less and spending a lot less. I don’t own a home or a car. I ride a cheap bike everywhere. I rent a simple room while I’m working, and after getting enough money together I go travel cheap in another country such as India or Mexico for a while, which allows me to stretch my money farther and support small, local economies in the third world countries I visit as well. (You do this by patronizing the hostels, food stands, markets and restaurants run by the locals. You also learn a lot about the world we live in! You can also work small trades under the table if you want, like teaching English or carpentry.) This works for me because I don’t have kids and I’m not picky with my living situation. However, everybody has to find their own way. It’s a lot harder if you have a family or a house or a job that requires you to stay in one place. But I’m just sharing my experience to simply give ideas. It only requires thinking outside of the box.
rtdrury also suggested finding creative ways to require less money, which would allow you to make less, such as growing your own food in a garden. I haven’t tried that, so I don’t know how practical that is. But in my hometown I’ve accomplished spending less by cooking more at home, buying primarily second hand things, and riding my bike everywhere. In the end, I don’t pay income taxes, and I’m still within the law!
Just sharing my thoughts and experiences. Hope that helps in some small way! Good luck.
The Democrats have given us enough “theatrics”. They either get something done or Ralph Nader will get my vote.
The lesser of the evils isn’t going to solve the critical problems facing this country!
There is no dragnet. Bush had plenty of power to engage in legitimate wiretaps using existing FISA court rules and procedures which allowed extreme flexibility. The only reason for Bush admins need to circumvent any real checks of it’s wiretapping is that they are not wiretapping legally. That is to say they are using our government to wiretap reporters; peace activists; even political opponents of any kind; even governmental civil servants. This is something anyone can research. FiSA offered absolutely no impediment or problem of any kind whatsoever unless ones goal is to engage in illegal wiretapping. That is a very big and important fact as Bush continues to put in place a criminal fascist governmental system in place of our representative democracy. People say Bush is too stupid to do all of this. I would like to know one single thing the Bush administration has done that isn’t stupid. I mean monstrously stupid.
Without putting an independent investigation of 9/11 and “Impeachment of Cheney/Bush” “On The Table”, Congress has rendered itself “Impotent”.
Iraq is not a threat to U.S. National Security. Iran is not a threat to U.S. National Security. As a matter of fact, no nation has threatened to attack, invade, or occupy the United States since Pearl Harbor and then Japan had no plans to invade or occupy the United States.
The attacks of 9/11 had nothing to do with invading or occupying the United States. World Trade Center #7 was an obvious “Preplanned Demolition”. The destruction of evidence, the failure to seal off crime scenes, the failure to include eyewitness testimony, was “Obstruction of Justice” not an investigation.
At no point was 9/11 a “Threat To National Security”. The CIA knew what was about to happen. The Israeli Mossad (Super CIA) was following, at least, 4 of the alleged terrorists and had been in contact with the CIA. Instead of interrogating eyewitness Mossad Agents, the FBI escorted, allegedly, 130 of them out of the United States.
The U.S. Government has now compiled a list of over 1 million possible terrorists. That list should now be published or, at least, examined by the eight U.S. Attorneys who were fired by Cheney/Bush.
During “Operation Cyclone”, the United States and Pakistan recruited 100,000 Islamic Militants. The United States and Saudi Arabia put together 12 billion dollars to finance the operation and those militants then trained the next generation. I am sure that the CIA Rendition Program was used to find as many of those original U.S. trainees.
DOW Chemical company was immunized from prosecution and since then, hundreds of thousands of Americans and Vietnamese have died from cancers they contracted from contact with Agent Orange.
The phone companies knew they were doing something illegal. Cheney/Bush knew that they were breaking the law. However, they all knew that they had control of the judicial system and could do whatever they wanted.
Until you divide the democratic party into two parties; Conservative Democrat and Progressive Democrat, the United States will continue in its course towards a “Tyrannical Democracy” and control by “Conservative Americans” who believe that “The End Justifies the Means”
I remember in the sixties so many guys (usually) promoting some simple, laid back lifestyle. They looked down on the ants who worked 9-5. All they needed was a stereo and a weekly check from Mom and Dad (whose wealth they despised).
So many of the Thoreauian alternate lifestyle suggestions are OK for a single free spirit with some way to get cash, but practically impossible for many people who have responsibility to house, feed and clothe others. Children, oldsters and anyone with a medical condition would probably not find the off the grid scenario workable. Thoreau, Whitman, Kerouac, and the utopian communities were never more than a token protest and had little effect on the nation’s economy or policy.
A healthful and very modest lifestyle is increasingly difficult to achieve for the propertyless. Usually you need a job, where taxes are deducted up front. People live in urban areas where the opportunity for growing food is limited. People rent and have to pay the higher and higher rents. People need transportation. People need some source of heating.
People who take responsibility for others should be admired. They need more practical suggestions about how to protest this horrible government. How choosing a month to cancel service or boycott or late pay the phone companies that gave data to the government? Same with cable TV, which for the most part does not report the truth.
But if you want to drop out from the above ground economy - how do you get a job as a $4000 whore? That would work. And you would get a lot of support from Congress.
One idea is to go into national forest land and make a home out there. With the readily available natural materials you could make some sort of hut to live in. Most of your food could come from the local vegetation and pine nuts. You may need to plant some vegetables like carrots or beans. If you have children you can check some books out at the library and home school them. If you need an address just use the local ranger station. Get to know the rangers of course. Clothing can be made from sewn together rags. Natural fibers can serve as thread. Make sure the colors blend with the surroundings. You can duck if helicopters fly overhead and stay away from roads. We will not pay taxes. This lifestyle may not be for everybody but if enough of us do it we can be the change we want. We can lead by example.
jclientelle:
I agree that the off-the-grid lifestyle doesn’t work well for most people. I wasn’t trying to put forth an attitude of superiority over other people at all, and I apologize if my post came across that way! I was only sharing my personal experience for those who may be in my position and searching for ways to stop paying income taxes, which was a specific question somebody on this thread asked.
I have many friends who have houses, kids, and fixed jobs, and I know it’s not possible to just drop out when you have such responsibilities. I don’t look down on others who haven’t dropped out at all; on the contrary, I admire the desire they have to take on such responsibility!! They have found their own creative ways to resist, such as boycotting certain things and teaching their children to be more responsible citizens… something extremely important in this day and age. We all have our own paths to follow, and our own ways in which we want to or can resist against things we feel are unjust. I applaud anybody and everybody who resists in any small or large way, whether they encourage their kids to eat healthy food or boycott things or go live in the wilderness. Everybody deserves respect, and we should all support each others’ efforts to create a better world.