'believed to be only the fifth ever such event'...............anyone know the other four?

The Senate has met in secret session many times; the House only a few.

see Table 2 in
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS20145.pdf

We now have the right and obligation to remain silent. Speaking out may lead to imprisonment and death. Der Fuehrer and his pet monkey have spoken and the new Reichstag will obey.

It only remains for We the People to march lockstep into war, or into the camps. Those who obey will be allowed a ration of food.

This is so the voters can't see who is going to help people who broke the law.Tony

MWB2681

thanks for the link.

There is no justification for immunity in the argument that companies will be less willing to help in the future. All they have to do is follow the constitution which requires the government to get subpoenas for a search and seizure.

There is, despite what the Bush junta argues, no reasonable argument for the government to bypass the usual procedure for getting court orders to conduct investigations. If there is such an argument it should be made in open session and the discussion should be about how to amend the constitution's protections in the Fourth Amendment. This requires ratification by the states -- in other words, public debate by the "people".

A secret government is dangerous and is really not a government at all -- it is a dictatorship.

They violated my rights. I'm suiing. Doesn't matter what you cowards do in your infantile " secret ' pajama party/black mass.
I'm suiing you, and GETTING your MONEY.
Go to hell.

"Companies that may have helped us save lives should be thanked for their patriotic service, not subjected to billion-dollar lawsuits that will make them less willing to help in the future," Bush said earlier.

Of course, the telcos themselves haven't shown any interest in this ultra-important defense of their rights, in the same way that none of the nations bordering Iraq felt there was any threat from Saddam in 2003. Patriotism? They were getting PAID, and when the White House didn't pay their bills the telcos cut access.(No links, unfortunately - I leave researching for the interested party. Teh Gazoogle is your freind.)

And I see future immunity is not an issue, just retroactive immunity. Hey, that Titanic deck chair would look so much better over there...

The immunity is even more for himself since he started it before 9/11.

They could bug anyone they wanted before 9/11 so they lied about that too so the solution was Homeland Security.... now all the tentacles that couldn't talk to each other much now are under a whole new centralized Monster!

the Monsters job is to make itself look good....

Are we in trouble or what?

Piece a cake.....

Congress, White House and Corporations are above the LAW. Only us citizens are subject to them. Democracy, American style? Transparency is not always 'good' for your security...hmmm

This issue of immunity is more fundamental than that. The Dem's have not won a battle with bush yet. Will they capitulate and try to dress it up? Of course they will. Will they surrender to the chimp? You bet! Will they rationalize and surrender their manhood? What manhood! Puke puke puke!

A secret session to discuss secretive activities in order to protect secrecy in the future.

I'm sure glad we have such an open government.

I've an idea for a product. Print the Constitution on every sheet in a toilet paper roll and place it the bathrooms of every government building.

F%^#ing telecomm's "willing to cooperate" is an outright promise and condoning of additional breaking of the any LAW, in the future. ¿ AS IF that would be a good thing for America ?
____ In a pig's eye ____

jlocke123 Thanks for saying the same, and more.

Namaste
… … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … & … ML King … … Inspiration … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — MLK

The do-nothing congress is meeting in secret. Wow. Whatever the vote is it will be either all Republicans Yes and all Democrats No or it will be all Republicans No and all Democrats Yes. Either way it won't be enough for their 60% nonsense. They might as well go home. What's the point?

The people who occupy "The People's House" no longer represent the people. It is time to assert the people's right to representative government by demanding the state governments recall the congeressional delegations and hold elections for replacements who will truely swear to uphold the Constitution and represent their constituents.

THIS is "democracy"? No, this is republicanism, this is representative republicanism, and its showing why the system is irrational and outdated. Why should we give these idiot politicians the option of taking away our constitutional rights? Forget the fact that this is an, outdated, typical liberal democracy, it makes no logical sense. Because some elected officials say so? If this were a democracy they wouldn't make decisions that are in direct opposition to their constituents. If were a democracy they would be nothing more than administrators and do what they're told. What we have is rule by nobles, nothing more, and they don't even make good enough decisions to justify having the power they do.

Dissentisfree, I'm asking this, it isn't rhetorical. Is representative government better than direct democracy? With capital having the power it does and the international economic system the way it is, I personally don't think anything other than what we have is possible if we keep representative government. Look around the world, every traditional democracy is acting in the same way (parties calling themselves "socialist" are just as pro-globalization as the right wing parties). The only countries bucking the trends (like Venezuela, Bolivia and possibly Ecuador) are those using more participatory varieties of democracy. However, for that to happen you need a mass, organized movement and we don't have that here.

The House of Representatives is in cahoots with the White House. They keep no secrets from each other, because they share the stakes in their shared pursuit - to expand the power/control of elites over the rabble. This secret session thing is designed to confuse the rabble. It is yet another cass war assault.

It is possibly a clever trap. Once you tell the representatives a lot of information in a secret session like this, they are bound NOT to talk about it. If they are told enough stuff in the secret session, they are effectively bound and gagged, because if they say anything, they can get in deep you-know-what. It would hamstring any further discussion and therefore any further activity.

What think you?

"I have no mouth and I must scream"
- to borrow Harlan Ellison's title

Namaste

This just in: The House passed the surveillance bill 213:197. It now goes to the Senate, but both the Senate and Bush will not approve without the immunity provisions.

There is no open govt. and for all intents and purposes really never has been. Have you ever heard the results of an IMF/World bank /CFR/Bilderburg/G8 meeting on TV or anywhere else? NO, and you never will. Because it ALL happens behind closed doors. This is all way behind the curve folks. The govt has been monitoring your communications for at least the last 20 yrs. I can personally drive you by the relay station and array here in Colorado that the Eschelon project has been using for at least that long to check out all your stuff, if they want to. We are ruled by secrecy and corruption, it's how we do business, and it's not gonna go away just because you write a little letter to bitch about it. You sit there and watch the govt's. of the world day by day preparing for what's right around the corner. Time to take the hint and do some preparation of YOUR OWN.
The Revolution will not be televised!

Money talks. Whether Congress makes them pay for their transgressions or not these Bush lackeys WILL pay for their transgressions. I dropped AT&T as my provider since I can not trust them to keep my communications private. Next I will switch my cell phone provider from Verizon, another privacy offender, to CREDO Mobile, the telecom with a conscience.

The 'secret' session was so the voters wouldn't know how their Reps. voted. I told mine that I would NEVER vote for him if the Tel-Cons were granted impunity.

Cowboys make better lovers: Ask any COW

Awaken March 14th, 2008 11:03 am

"There is no justification for immunity in the argument that companies will be less willing to help in the future."

No justification at all. It's just more Bushit. These telecom companies getting "free" airwaves from this goverment are "obligated" to comply with government regulations - and not requests from a wanna-be dictator! They essentially have no choice but to follow the rules if they want to conduct telecom business in this country.

If Congress gives these bastards immunity, I WILL vote for Ralph Nader. I'm getting tired of this $hit!

IF THEY'RE IN
VOTE THEM OUT
RETURN CONGRESS
TO THE PEOPLE

ZERO INCUMBANCY UNTIL WE GET REPRESENTATION.
HOW BAD COULD IT BE??

"Companies that may have helped us save lives should be thanked for their patriotic service..."

Twisted Logic 101

Laws may be broken if performing a patriotic duty. Whistle blowers will be prosecuted if they expose state secrets. All illegal acts performed by the government are state secrets and patriotic. Exposing illegal acts committed by the government is unpatriotic and illegal.

So much for, "We're a nation of laws."

This is a no brainer. The telecom companies are hardly ignorant of the laws about wiretapping that they violated. The Bush executive branch cannot claim ignorance of FISA laws that they willfully broke.

A secret meeting of the House is very bad news and suggests that the reps will agree to break the laws and give the telecom companies immunity from prosecution.

So, who are the chumps still following the laws anymore? Is it the middle class that dutifully pays its taxes? Is it the soldier who carries out illegal orders in Iraq?

If our so-called elected leaders won't follow the laws, why should we? Use your creative (or destructive) imagination, but let's not bleat like sheep anymore. It's time to realize that we the people are under occupation just like the Iraqis - and that means it's time to "improvise." (Did you get that AT&T? Assholes.)

{ perhaps } they knew you were going to say that, before you knew

AND AGAIN I SAY..YOU ARE PAYING FOR THIS..THE SPYING, THE ILLEGAL WAR, THE ARMIES OF MERCENARIES WHO WILL HANG YOU IN THE VILLAGE SQUARE AND RAPE YOUR WIFE..AND CHILDREN..YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE ARMIES OF LOYALIST ZEALOTS THAT CONSTITUTE ENTIRE "AGENCIES"..JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCES THAT SET UP HOMELESS MEN WITH THE HELP OF DRUG DEALERS WITH MUSLIM SOUNDING NAMES WHO THEMSELVES ARE FACING JAIL..ETC..ETC..YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE WHOLE CORRUPT AND FRANKLY...EVIL REALITY..
SO..HERE WE ARE..IT IS APRIL..THE BILL FOR THIS YEARS COMING EVIL IS IN THE MAIL..WILL YOU PROVIDE THE RESOURCES TO TORTURE AND MURDER? TO RAPE THE ENVIRONMENT? WILL YOU PAY? MOST OF YOU WILL..I AM SORRY TO SAY...MOST OF YOU WILL GO ONLY AS FAR AS AN ANGRY POST..YOU NEED TO GO FURTHER..IT IS TIME..IT IS TIME TO HOLD A GENERAL TAX STRIKE..THIS IS THE TIME..TO LET THE MILITARY CORPORATE FASCIST THEOCRACY CURRENTLY IN POWER THAT THIS IS THE OUTCOME OF THEIR ACTIONS...COMPLETE FINANCIAL CHAOS NATIONALLY...AND THAT IT IS THE DIRECT RESULT OF THEIR INABILITY TO "REPRESENT" US..AND TO LET THE NEWCOMERS..WHOMEVER THAT PERSON BE (THEY NEED TO STEAL 5 MILLION VOTES THIS TIME, TO GET MCCAIN IN AND KEEP IT "BUSINESS AS USUAL"..PROBABLY IN TEXAS OR COLORADO FROM MY "SOURCES") SO...YUP! WILL YOU PAY? WILL YOU BE COMPLICIT IN THE DEATH OF FREEDOM AND THE END OF THE NATURAL WORLD? WILL YOU GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY AND LET THEM LOSE 9 BILLION OF IT EVERY SO OFTEN? WILL YOU ALLOW THEM TO BILL YOU FOR THE WORK THEY DO TO DISMANTLE YOUR RIGHTS?
DO NOT PAY..DO NOT PAY..DO NOT PAY...TAKE A BRAVE STEP...THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY..THIS IS HOW...LAZY..OUR VALUES HAVE BECOME..IN THE REST OF THE WORLD..THEY MUST TAKE UP AN AK-47 IN ORDER TO REALLY CHANGE THINGS..TO RID THEIR SYSTEM OF ZEALOTS...BUT HERE...GEE..ALL YOU HAVE TO DO...FOR NOW..IS ....NOT DECLARE...AND MOST ARE NOT EVEN WILLING TO DO THAT...I AM SORRY..I WANT YOU TO BE MAD..EVEN IF IT IS WORDS ALONE...IT MAKES MY HEART GLAD TO SEE YOU ALL SO ANGRY, AS AM I..BUT IT IS TIME PEOPLE..IT IS TIME TO SHOW THEM THAT WE ACTAULLY DO HAVE A CRITICAL POWER LEFT..THE POWER OF THE PURSE...THEY KEEP SENDING US THE BILL ...FEELING QUITE COMFORTABLE THAT 80 YEARS OF TERRORISM INTHE FORM OF DRACONIAN TAX COLLECTING MEASURES WILL KEEP YOU PAYING FOR WHATEVER THEY DO...AND YOU ARE COMPLICIT...BUT THINK..WHAT IF 100 MILLION DID NOT PAY...CAN YOU IMAGINE...IT REALLY COULD HAPPEN..IT REALLY COULD...IT IS THE EASIEST THING IN THE WORLD...WE HAVE REAL POWER...THIS ONE FORM...AND WE NED TO USE IT..TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION IS ALIVE AND HERE..AND WE NEED TO DO WHAT OUR NATIONS CREATORS WANTED US TO DO..TO STAND UP FOR THE RIGHTS THEY HAD TO SECURE WITH BLOOD(BY THE WAY..A MUSKET IS AN ASSAULT RIFLE..FIRST AND FOREMOST..THE CONSTITUTION..ALL THE AMENDMANTS..TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT)...WE CAN SECURE AGAIN..WITH A PEN...DO NOT SIGN..DO NOT PAY...OR I AM SORRY TO SAY...SHUT UP!

jcrumb March 15th, 2008 12:45 am
You are right on the mark in my opinion. Problem is that for this action (boycott paying taxes) to work we need to do it as a large movement. We need to mobilize our friends, neighbors co-workers and the guy on the corner that sells pizza. You and I won't cut it, we need millions of people to buy in.

How do we do this when the majority of "progressives" on even this left-leaning website support a pro-war, pro-corporate and pro-status quo candidate like Obama who plans to continue the occupation and are so deluded that they believe it? Others support "monster" Hillary.

How do we convince "Middle America" when we can't even convince so-called liberals that support Hillary and Obama? These liberals are completely sold on the two-party system and think Democrats are the answer. They think the answer is to put a Democrat in the White House to really mix things up and bring us "change" when there is nothing in their records as senators to suggest this would happen.

I like your idea jcrumb. What are your thoughts on how to convince others to join us?

WTF I love it "A secret session to discuss secretive activities, etc. And why are they making it so that any future transgressions will not be considered illegal? Has congress gone schizo? And why should the meeting be secret? From whom? the people who pay these freaks their income and health care are barred. Just another step to secrecy and fraudulent activities and I will be so glad when Bush shuts up.

Thoughts_Into_Action March 14th, 2008 11:49 pm

"So, who are the chumps still following the laws anymore? Is it the middle class that dutifully pays its taxes? Is it the soldier who carries out illegal orders in Iraq?"

It is both!

The only way international corporate predators can control the globe is by getting world governments to END national sovereignty. Here is just one example of how the power-elite are going about accomplishing this task:

http://www.economyincrisis.org/articles/show/1209