Jan March 14th, 2008 7:00 am
Good questions. Thanks for your thoughts. When you say:

Another thing we might need is the ability to be committed to working in a group when not everything about that group is to your own liking. Submitting ahead of time to the authority of the group or even to the "authorities" of the group is a very difficult thing to do for most of us children of the post WW2 era. Our individuality is often too great to allow us to be kind of "locked in" as members of a political party.

You are describing me exactly. I have been struggling with joining a political party for the reasons you stated. I don't like to submit to any authority.

I have usually voted for the Democrats but never joined the party. I feel like they have betrayed us and I have given up on them. I plan to join a third party and see what I can do to help better my country by trying to put good candidates into office.

The discussion about "courage" is right to the point. I often feel like a big coward although I do get involved. Doing things together with friends or like minded people makes it easier to overcome our fears.

Another thing we might need is the ability to be committed to working in a group when not everything about that group is to your own liking. Submitting ahead of time to the authority of the group or even to the "authorities" of the group is a very difficult thing to do for most of us children of the post WW2 era. Our individuality is often too great to allow us to be kind of "locked in" as members of a political party. We may feel like part of a movement but to actually join one of the parties is another matter. Do we really trust the leadership enough to be able to join? We may wonder if we may be led by the nose into actions that will have permanent consequences for our lives?

I often tell people how much I respect those activists that sat in trees to stop those trees from being cut down but I couldn't do it myself. My partner and I might pay a regular amount to groups like Green Peace or other more radical groups. But to actually be on the front line of action where you might get tazared or hit over the head by a police batton and then arrested is another thing again.

Perhaps it all depends on how much it all means to you.

Once, when asked what people should do, Ivan Illich said:
"Doing the right thing is harder than going to gaol".

I don't know anymore. What do you think?
.

Johnwyclif said

"Man, it's depressing being judged as harmless"

Yea

wsws.org website March 13th, 2008 1:17 pm

You made some excellent points. I am going to join the Socialist Equality Party. Without courage we are reduced to being maggots. Without courage there would never have been a Boston Tea Party. We would still be under British rule. Thanks for your comments, the list of socialists and the link to Albert Einstein.

Quoting from an article by David Walsh entitled, "New York Governor Eliot Spitzer Forced to Resign in Sex Scandal" --

"The real concerns in this episode center on the methods used by the Bush administration's Justice Department and their implications for the entire political system. What the facts and the context strongly suggest is that Spitzer was targeted by powerful enemies in the government, who act without restraint and on behalf of a definite political agenda.

"With its enormous financial and technological resources, and new-found powers under laws enacted in the name of the bogus "war on terror," the federal government has the means to "get the goods" on its opponents and either intimidate them into silence, destroy their careers, or have them locked away in prison. Political scores are settled in this manner and prominent figures eliminated in bloodless "hits."

"How many others are under investigation? What kind of impact will the set-up of Spitzer have on American political life, where those who live "blameless lives" are few and far between? ...

"... one needs to ask, at what level did this sting operation receive approval? Was it approved by Attorney General Michael Mukasey? Was George W. Bush involved?

"The affair became the property of the Department of Justice's Public Integrity Section, notorious under the Bush administration for its investigation of 5.6 times as many Democrats as Republicans. ...

"This is all about politics and the way in which politics is conducted in the US at present. With great fanfare, amid endless claims about the need to protect freedom and democracy, the US government launched the "war on terror," tightened banking regulations to fight "terrorist financing," and what has it accomplished? Involving the governor of New York in a sordid sex scandal! ...

"The Spitzer affair is terribly American, reflective of a country where social and class issues are not yet fought out openly, but through coded messages, metaphors and scandals. Meanwhile, the working population is disenfranchised and forced to choose between one or another millionaire politician.

The increasing resort to police-state methods to regulate political differences demonstrates that those social and class issues are threatening ever more insistently to burst through to the surface."

Here's the entire article by David Walsh -- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/mar2008/sptz-m13.shtml

Communism got its very bad propaganda and reputation, after its principles were twisted and usurped by greedy corporate psychopathetic fascists, VERY MUCH like our own current situation in the USA.

It would not surprised me if future international generations have distinctly bad opinions of Democracy, based on the last 10 years - which is a tremendous injustice and shame - as geo the inferior has absolutely nothing to do with representational democracy (from day minus ~ 75, … don't get me started … )

If you want different results,
try doing something different

Namaste
… … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … & … ML King … … Inspiration … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — MLK

Meanwhile, here are just a few notable socialists:

Albert Einstein

H. G. Wells

Mohandas K. Gandhi

Leo Tolstoy

Eugene V. Debs

Helen Keller

Jack London

Charles Chaplin

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Chico Mendes

Bertrand Russell

Lincoln Steffins

Ramsay MacDonald

Jose Marti

Nelson Mandela

Sun Yat-Sen

Margaret Sanger.

And this from socialist Albert Einstein:
"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive."

Clearly, what Einstein is saying is that it not only takes courage to live as an individual, it also takes courage to survive collectively, to preserve the species.

You may want to read Einstein's essay "Why Socialism?" http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Einstein.htm

Fear and Terror attack one's mind at an extremely vulnerable point, which often triggers blind obedience to ruling authority.

I AM CLEAR,
THEIR PSYCHOPATHETIC FEAR DRIVES ME FURTHER INTO ACTION
TO SAVE MY PRINCIPLES AND FAMILY

Thanks WSWS.ORG, your contribution is uncountable in it's synergistic impacts casscading through so many minds.

Namaste
… … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … & … ML King … … Inspiration … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — MLK

talicap,

Quoting from your post, above --

"I have been reading World Socialist Web Site for years and in my opinion they offer brilliant analysis of all major political events. I have considered joining their party the Socialist Equality Party but I am concerned that if we continue on our rightward trajectory all real opposition parties might be labeled as "terrorist organizations" because they oppose the policies of the US government and offer an alternative vision that is Marxist."

Thank you for the positive words regarding the wsws.org website. However, your fear that anyone associated with socialism, or any other fundamentally different ideology, may eventually be arrested is precisely what those in power count on -- fear.

Further down in your post, you write:

"The Greens may be a safer bet for now."

I can understand your fear but, at the same time, don't underestimate the fear OF THOSE IN POWER! This is a fear, among the ruling class, that's existed for centuries. And their fear is simple: they have the power and the guns and the money, but, numerically, they're greatly outnumbered.

The ongoing, historical, bottom-line question that obsesses them is: "All these people! How do we keep all them under control? And what if they begin to realize the incredible power they have?" ... So that they, too, are afraid!

The question then becomes: who is more courageous -- the exploiters or the exploited? ... Truth, justice, being properly informed, being real & human -- all these things that the masses of people have -- and the ruling class DOESN'T have -- should engender courage on their part.

So while I appreciate your support for the wsws.org website and the Socialist Equality Party (SEP) that sponsors wsws.org -- you can't have it both ways. People in other countries, especially third world countries, have greatly changed the from of government they've lived under, and they didn't accomplish what they did by "playing it safe."

I realize that that's easy to say, nevertheless, it's a basic political truth.

Many people in America, and I'm not saying this is you, but many people in America say: "Oh I voted for so and so and the War didn't end. I quit politics!" Or: "I voted for so and so and the economy is getting worse not better. I quit politics." ... You see the problem? ... Many Americans want to be safe and they also want instant results (instant gratification). These inclinations are probably more prevalent in the United States than anywhere else in the world. This may also be why the American public is so easily ... controlled ... by those in power.

As Frederick Douglass put it: "Power is not given, it's taken." And that takes courage. To say one is afraid to join a legally established political party (the SEP, for example) is itself very, very dangerous indeed. If that's the limit of one's courage: to stop at joining a radical political party, then that plays right into the hands of those in power who count -- who COUNT! -- on fear to keep them where they are.

jan

This whole affair shows me how futile my life has been.
I've been waiting and waiting for soembody to entrap me with sex.
I should have taken a road more travelled by.

Man, it's depressing being judged as harmless.

re: "what ever happened to the D.C. Madame who had hundreds/thousands of names in her "black book"? I haven't heard anything about this case from the Mass Media……have you?"

My favorite 'whatever happened' is the ANTHRAX attacks that killed a few people and turned out to come from Fort Detrick Maryland lab... not OBL. For months the media whipped up the terror of anthrax attack, always implying it was OBL or Muslims.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1216-03.htm

http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=22582

Francis Boyle, PhD, LLD – Professor of International Law at the University of Illinois, Champaign. A leading practitioner and advocate of international law. He was responsible for drafting the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, the American implementing legislation for the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention. He served on the Board of Directors of Amnesty International (1988-1992), and represented Bosnia- Herzegovina at the World Court. He holds a Doctor of Law Magna Cum Laude as well as a Ph.D. in Political Science, both from Harvard University. Author of World Politics and International Law (1985), Defending Civil Resistance Under International Law (1987), The Future of International Law and American Foreign Policy (1989), In re: More Than 50,000 Nuclear Weapons (1991), The Bosnian People Charge Genocide (1995), Foundations of World Order (1999), The Criminality of Nuclear Deterrence (2002), Palestine, Palestinians & International Law (2003), Destroying World Order: U.S. Imperialism in the Middle East (2004), Biowarfare and Terrorism (2005).

* Article 12/13/06: "The real culprits behind the 2001 anthrax attack on Congress were most likely US government scientists at the army's Ft. Detrick, MD., bioterrorism lab according to a former government biological weapons legislator and University of Illinois Professor.
---

THE SEX SCANDAL IS A WEAPON OF MASS DISTRACTION.

Jan. You are right on the money about republican entrapment rings for those trying to create social justice or end war. Too bad you paid for it with your tax and corporate dollars. Does the Republican Party run extensive Prostitution and Sex-entrapment stables? Does the Democratic Party? Of course they do. It is an effective investment against squeaky wheels. Who is investigating these corporate and politically financed prostitution stables?

Sex represents polar tension or different potentials offered by opposites. War, business, school and politics all put their players in tensions because of an estangement from culture including healthy family and community relations. We have millions of politicians, business people, students and soldiers who are placed in the situation of extreme tension as a routine part of their 'jobs'.

A strategic thinker realises that tense people are vulnerable. The institutionalised public who are also living forms of this tension, are easily deluded into 'hate speak' against the vulnerable, thus distracting them from the 'game'. Even 'smart' guys like Clinton and Spitzer are blind to this aspect of the game, so all they do is turn themselves in so that 'pimps' like Bush and company can continue their 'rabid' attacks here and around the world. The reality is that for all their 'hate' talk against the vulnerable, so-called 'Christian' and other religious zealots are creating and running the prostitution rings as part of the destructive world consumer addiction and war which they feed on.

I love some of these comments posted by others:

No one made Spitzer use prostitutes. He knew what would happen to his career and reputation if he got caught. Shed no tears for a man who obeyed his groin rather than his conscience.

You'd think that a guy who had to be hated with a purple passion with the wall street gang mwould be smart enough to keep his pecker in his pants!

"Spitzer's Shame Is Wall Street's Gain"

So was Bill Clinton's.

By the way, what ever happened to the D.C. Madame who had hundreds/thousands of names in her "black book"? I haven't heard anything about this case from the Mass Media……have you?

Where is she and her little black book hiding?

I simply don't know what it is about these powerful policitians that leads them to acts of utter stupidity like this. First off, we're living in the age of HIV/AIDS, and it's not a disease limited to junkies and gays, either. Multiple sex partners increases your risk of transmission, and so the first thing that I would do, were I "Kristen", Mr. Spitzer and his wife, would be to get HIV/AIDS testing.

After all, I don't care if "Kristen" was a high priced call girl. You don't know how many sex partners she's had, who she's slept with and how many times. A pretty young 22 year old gal like her should be doing better things with her life than selling her body for sex, but hey, it's her body, and if that's how she wants to make money, who am I to stop her?

It always amuses me how these poor wives are expected to stand by their men as they make their public confessions of infidelity. They stand there looking oh, so stoic, as if by standing there, they are somehow expected to show their support for their wayward husbands. Well, ladies and gentlemen, if that were me, I'd be mad as a cold wet hen and I would lose all trust for the man I thought loved me and was being faithful. I would lose all trust for him and would probably demand a quick and painless exit from the marriage and if I ever remarried, I'd want someone who I could trust to be risk averse and faithful, if I could ever again regain trust for a man.

One more comment:

So keep zipped up guys, and let's demand to know the names of clients 1-50.

Yeah, and if you're in the midst of a midlife crisis, go buy a candy apple red Corvette if you have to, but keep your pecker in your pants and be faithful to that woman that you took a solemn vow to on your wedding day. If you can't do that, then ask yourself why and do something about it.

"I have been reading World Socialist Web Site for years and in my opinion they offer brilliant analysis of all major political events."

Stopped reading at this point.

"Wall Street Cheers as Its Nemesis Plunges Into Crisis."?

Of course it was targetted. In addition to the corporate angle, hard-nosed governors and local officials are potentially a big pain in the neck when it comes to digging out fraud in the next election, should it occur. (The election I mean. I think the fraud is a certainty.)

Also, the news is distracted from serious stories, like the resignation of Admiral Fallon.

I believe that most everything we do is recorded and potentially public and can be trotted out and used against us. This type of selective prosecution is very dangerous.

So keep zipped up guys, and let's demand to know the names of clients 1-50.

For me the creepiest part of this story has been learning about the software banks use to data mine and flag our banking activities. It's apparently not just the movement of suspiciously large amounts of cash but smaller amounts as well if, in the judgement of your bank, it doesn't fit your profile. Why is there not more discussion on this aspect of the story? Anyone seen more info on how this happens?

I'm a New Yorker and can't afford gas or even a subway ride. I'm PISSED AS HELL that my governor spent $80,000 buying pussy. Consensual sex has nothing to do with it, I'm sure he would've survived an illicit affair and nobody would care.

Spitzer was an angry, vindictive bully who not only went after Wall Street mobsters but also his political enemies. He investigated their personal lives and had them followed by the police. He had it coming.

I just wished something just as embarrassing could happen to Bush and Cheney while in office.

The Media (so-called) is one-thing.

The FBI being _on_ someone 'like white on rice' is quite-another...
[The FBI was founded by a transvestite, ass-clown/ass-hat, pseudo-pedophile
hooked on young Mexican-boys whilst Cold-Warrioring, and yet Hoover
blackmailed ALL in D.C. (including-Presidents!), and for dozens of
years.]
The CIA (since it was the OSS and blessed with Julia Child-types whiles being 'schooled' by MI5/6-types) virtually IS Wall-Street's "enforcement-arm" -- most CIA managers/directors/etc. are out of just TWO major Wall-Street law-firms, for-example (if the Dulles-bros weren't example-enough!). [And/or out of the Skulls at Yale, and similar at Harvard/Princeton]
Gary Hart, MLK, and many-more discovered the same-thing/'reality' as Spitzer. [And others, who weren't so 'lucky' as to just be Scandalized or ABSCAM'd...many have suffered 'mysterious health-issues'... [or, as in former satellite-countries, 'disappearances/poisonings']. Ask Hoffa, Ruby, or Castro...we tried to kill Castro over 100-times, even with a poisoned scuba-outfit/wet-suit that killed his friend!
I think Elliot "Ness" Spitzer 'got off light'...considering.

hey canuckchuck.... you are right on the money....arrr the irony of this life leaves me dumbfounded [or just dumb depending on whether I take the viagra or just aspro]

You give a woman a few hundred buck to have sex with you once, and it's illegal.

You give a woman half of everything you own to have sex with you for as long as she will stick around, and you're AN UPSTANDING CITIZEN.

Crazy shit.

You grow a few buds in your backyard for personal use for your glaucoma, and you go to jail....you go to your doctor for your weekly prescription of Vicodine, and "hey, want some viagra with that?"

This is the REAL reason for Bu$hCo's warrantless wiretapping....Political Assassinations made to order...

I agree with almost every single comment.

qwijibo March 12th, 2008 2:07 pm
"BUT…prostitution is different. It's a crime, it's illegal."

qwijibo makes a valid point, however there is a double standard. Bush has also committed many illegal acts and the Democrats lead by Pelosi REFUSE to impeach. The Repugs on the other hand aren't so willing to bend over in bipartisan fashion for their friends. When a Dim gets caught with his pants down the Pugs scream for resignation and the Dim Wits quickly comply.

wsws.org website March 12th, 2008 3:00 pm
I have been reading World Socialist Web Site for years and in my opinion they offer brilliant analysis of all major political events. I have considered joining their party the Socialist Equality Party but I am concerned that if we continue on our rightward trajectory all real opposition parties might be labeled as "terrorist organizations" because they oppose the policies of the US government and offer an alternative vision that is Marxist. If that happens all its members may get arrested. I know it sounds far fetched but who would of thought 10 years ago we that we would become a police state that tortures and has no Habeas Corpus?

The Greens may be a safer bet for now. I really respect their candidate Cynthia McKinney because she had the guts to quit the Democrats and work to build up another party. She is scheduled to talk here in Los Angeles, April 15, 2008 at a peace rally.

Peace to all. Change yourself first. Then dump the Dims. Build up 3rd parties.

ONE FLY__There always has and always will be something bigger going on behind the scenes. This world is run by the people with the money and the power.

Poor Spitzer___if he had just waterboarded her instead of having sex with her, he would be ok, as Mukasey is not sure that would be torture, and we know his opinions are valid and unquestionable. How about if he had accidentally shot her in the face? OK also.

Um "real estate scam he didn't like", it was supposed to read.

And no, children, it wasn't "about sex". He was dealing with an international prostitution ring, i.e. Organized crime leaving him opem to blackmail, extortion, "undue influence", etc. To portray this as some manner of "affair/American hypocrites hate sex/it's his private life" sorta thang just brands the speaker as terminally naive when the topic isn't overtly "ideological".

Anyone who viewed Spitzer as a "progressive" was really drinking the MSM Kool-Aid. The most reactionary of all Dem AG candidates, he pulled a money-laundering trick to conceal his landlord daddy's contributions, and bought the job (although his pro-death penalty stance probably got him a few extra right-wing votes). Both as AG and Gov, he never met a real estate "development" scam... unless, of course, his buddies wanted the same property. His headline-grabbing "investigations" of Wall Street were mainly headline-grabbers, selective, and frequently extortionate. In this respect, he was an upper-east-side Rudy Giuliani.
That Spitzer got "Spitzered", while ironic, is mourned only by non New Yawkas who bought into the hype.

It's my belief there is something bigger going on behind the scenes.
http://oakcreekforum.blogspot.com/2008/03/chances-are-good.html

This country is run by a mafia. Spitzer was a part of the club, playing the hard cop. But he was in on bigger cover-ups. See my post above. He stepped on some other Don's toes, got kneecapped. Classic mafia stuff. The media is having fun with this and homeland security is ramping up for the witch hunts to come. Don't waste your words defending Spitzer, but take note about how ugly things have gotten in the land of corruption. Does anyone believe it is possible to reform this mess? It's all so disgusting.

This country is run by a mafia. Spitzer was a part of the club, playing the hard cop. But he was in on bigger cover-ups. See my post above. He stepped on some other Don's toes, got kneecapped. Classic mafia stuff. The media is having fun with this and homeland security is ramping up for the witch hunts to come. Don't waste your words defending Spitzer, but take note about how ugly things have gotten in the land of corruption. Does anyone believe it is possible to reform this mess? It's all so disgusting.

THis man knew what game he was playing in....and had to know that eventually he would be caught in the very trap he laid for others.

Question is: why would he so obviously choose to shoot himself in the foot?
He's not stupid, he knew people would be looking for any transgression possible to bring him down--why did he deliver himself to them on a silver platter?

The moral of this story is: Sex bad, War okay

IT"S A GOOD THING I can't afford spendy sex like a politician. The amateur I occasionally consort with in a licensed arrangement for the last 25 plus years is capable of turning me every which way but loose with a very limited set of practices.

IF HE GOT HIS MONEYS WORTH HE WOULD HAVE EXPLODED IN AN ORGASMIC PLASMA.

I have lost control of my cap control. Son must be setting sticky keys again.

It's a setup. When you want to get rid of a politician, you find his weakness and exploit it. Didn't Spitzer, as AG, prosecute prostitution rackets? So they offer him a taste, pull him in, and get rid of him. A classic means for the rich and powerful to eliminate a political threat. They're popping corks on Wall Street tonight!

Spitzer's banks turned him in. This is an untended consequences of all the Homeland Security hoopla. I had to fill out some information for my bank to be in compliance with homeland security. The lessonhere is , don't piss off your banker. Like tbone, I am wondering about the other 8 clients. What is going to happen to the Empire Club? Will any charges of human trafficking be brought against it?
In parting, anyone who can spend $5000 for an hour with a hooker has too damn much money.

This is absolutely correct. Why are people demanding Spitzer's head for a private, consensual act with an adult? Sure, it violates an antiquated and seldom-enforced statute, but why aren't the same people calling for Bush's head when he is manifestly guilty of thousands of counts of torture, some to death, carried out on his orders, and millions of rights violations against both American citizens and foreign nationals? This has the same scent as the Seligman case in Alabama. Yes, Spitzer is a hypocrite, but how many politicians aren't?

The other lesson about who really has power is this .... do you see any big investigations and people going to jail for all the phony securities they created and were selling. That was pretty much pure fraud. They worked hard to hide the worthlessness of the loans that the security instruments were based on. But, that won't be investigated.

Yeah, its crashed the economy, tens of thousands of Americans are losing their jobs, and American homeowners are losing hundreds of billions of $ (if not trillions) in equity. And the people who created these things got very, very rich. But you won't see a parade of them in orange jumpsuits and handcuffs going off to prison.

Its money that rules this country. That's why the Dems and Rethugs are the same, because they serve the same interests. Just different faces on the puppets.

Think there's any difference on the stuff that's important to money? Ask yourself what you are not hearing from either Obama or Hillary .... calls for investigations and prison terms for the Wall St fraudsters who've created our current financial mess. That's the equivalent of Sherlock Holmes' dog that didn't bark.

No surprise of course. It was the Clintons in 1999 who passed and signed the legislation that removed the depression era reforms that would have prevented this from happening. And Obama is the leading recipient of Wall St money in this election cycle.

Clinton's affair in the White House was tawdry but legal. What Spitzer did with prostitutes was illegal. He had no problem with prosecuting the prostitution rings in his previous job, which is more than a little hypocritical.

The funny thing is that I kept seeing headlines like "Spitzer tied to prostitution ring." When I read that headline, my first thought was that he was involved in running it!

Who cares if just used it. If he cheated on his wife, that's between him and his wife. I could care less. This is such a stupid way to chose leaders. I give a damn about what policies he's going to implement when in office. I could care less where he puts his prick.

Its a good lesson in who really runs this country. Follow the money. That's where the power lies.

Now, having absorbed this lesson, look at the Obama campaign and how its the number one recipient of Wall St money in this election cycle. Who do you think is going to be able to talk to President Obama and steer his policies? The Wall St moneybags people, or some college kid who volunteered for his campaign?

The straw that will break the camel's back is still in the process - - just wait for a few more "bail-outs" by the neocons and Feds, but before everyone beatitfies poor little Eliot, back off for a few minutes. Yes, on the surface it would appear that he did little more than what thousands of others do every day/night, but that's no excuse for what is aberant behavior. Sure, he paid for "Kristen's" "favors," but he cheated on his wife (and yes, that's by and large her problem to deal with), but even "old Bill" finally came to the realization that for those who are in power positions to "do it just because they could" is no better than what Bush, Cheney and their neocon legions have done and are doing - - it's still the same thing: taking unfair and unjust advantage of their positions.
With regard to the FBI's wiretapping investigation: there indeed is good reason to question suspect that some may have used their influence federally to take avenge against Spitzer because of his work to thwart corruption on Wall Street and the financial markets, but Eliot was also making some funny moves financially that created suspicion, too. I think there is a good quote here from "somewhere" that is applicable: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Spitzer having to resign for what should not be a crime or a misdemeanor at most while his enemies rejoice makes me sick.

Was the 3+% rally on Wall Street yesterday due to Spitzer's eminent fall or was it because the Treasury again bailed out Wall Street by promising to auction off T-Bills. Of course, we the people are saddled again. What will be the straw that broke the camel's back?

In the above article, Robert Scheer writes:

"The media consensus from the opening salvo was that Spitzer must resign and he will be thrown to the dogs, which is unfortunate because, LIKE CLINTON, HE HAS DONE MUCH VALUABLE WORK IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, and the outrage over this personal dereliction, tawdry in the extreme, is excessive." (Caps mine.)

First of all, whatever the extent of the "valuable work in the public interest" either of the Clinton's has done is minimal. Moreover, it pales in comparison to the *harm* they've done to the public good.

Surely, Robert Scheer is aware that the Clinton-Gore Administration, along with the full complement of mainstream Democrats, unswervingly supported the economic sanctions against Iraq -- economic sanctions that resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, many of them children, the sick and the elderly. ... JUST WHAT "VALUABLE WORK IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST" DID THE CLINTON'S DO TO OFFSET THOSE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DEATHS?

And, domestically speaking (because, after all, who cares about the death of all those foreigners) -- what about the Clintons' support of the 1996 Telecommunications Act? ...

The 1996 Telecommunications Act put more and more *public* power into fewer and few *private* hands. For one thing, the 1996 Telecommunications gave away -- repeat: GAVE AWAY, FREE OF CHARGE -- 50 billion dollars worth of digital spectrum rights to the a handful of *private* enterprise media giants. These were digital spectrum rights that belonged to the *public.*

Surely, Robert Sheer knows about the economic sanctions against Iraq; and about the Telecommunications Act. But he conveniently forgets them.

And what "public good" (pray tell) did Bill Clinton's 1996 so-called "Welfare Reform Bill" do, Robert Scheer? ... Other than continue to shift wealth from the poor, the working poor and the lower middle class to the rich. ... Other than throw hundreds of thousands of needy individuals below the poverty line – a poverty line that's based on 1950s economic standards.

Robert Scheer, am I telling you something you're not already aware of?!!!

Scheer's also writes:

"I CERTAINLY NEVER WANTED CLINTON TO RESIGN, LET ALONE BE IMPEACHED, but why is Spitzer's paying for sex more disgraceful than ripping it off?" (Caps mine.)

No, Bill and Billary shouldn't have been kicked out of the White House for Bill getting power-play blowjobs from an office intern. But what about impeaching Bill Clinton for his above-mentioned bloodthirsty support of the Iraqi economic sanctions? ... Or the bombing every third day of Iraq? ... Or the indiscriminate bombing in Kosovo? ... Or the bombing of a Sudan pharmaceutical plant, the only one in the country; the result being the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people? And for what? To try to kill one man: Osama Bin Laden.

Some concern for "the public good."

And what about Bill and Hillary's ongoing, systematic sellout to corporate interests; both in terms of Bill Clinton's military/economic policies as well as Hillary's presidential war chest, fat with millions of corporate dollars?

Is Hillary's cozy relationship with WalMart's "in the public interest," Robert (Cruise-Missile-Liberal) Scheer?

Shame on you, Robert Scheer. Presumably, you know better.

Finally, your pointing out that whoring is a far cry from lying the United States into a war; or that whoring is a far cry from the misery US economic policy is visiting on millions of people the world over ... such observations are rather obvious and commonplace nowadays. Perhaps a more suitable, more courageous column on your part would have been an expose not of the $1000-an-hour whores Spitzer patronized but rather much more expensive whores, such as, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John McCain, and the rest of the mainstream political whores who faithfully serve their corporate paymasters ... on bended knees.

So Spitzer used the services of a prostitute, or two. Who cares! The wife will handle him. But revealing Wall Street's and banks' corruption with the support of the White House...this is what took him down.

A point of clarification: Scheer is wrong when he describes Monica as a "young and vulnerable White House intern". Passing over the question of whether or not she was vulnerable, she was not a White House intern at the time of her dalliances with Clinton. She had a job at DoD.

This misrepresentation is pervasive throughout the media as a way of making Clinton look like a child molester.

Calling her an intern is like calling Robert Scheer a high school graduate.

"Spitzer's Shame Is Wall Street's Gain"

So was Bill Clinton's.

By the way, what ever happened to the D.C. Madame who had hundreds/thousands of names in her "black book"? I haven't heard anything about this case from the Mass Media......have you?

Where is she and her little black book hiding?

Why was he being wiretapped in the first place? Was Spitzer a suspected terrorist or something? Did the prostitute have ties to terrorists?

What this whole soap opera ends up teaching us is this: The U.S. government will harness all of its resources to investigate and find some sort of dirt on anyone who has the audacity to stand up for and fight for the rights of American citizens. The FBI's job is to remove such people from positions where they may accomplish some good for working people.

Isn't it amazing how Wall Street millionaires have the power to get an investigation like this started?

Now does anyone have any questions about who is really running the country?

Robert Scheer does the SMACKDOWN in the final three paragraphs! The truth hurts, don't it, 'Merkuh? Bunch of dumbshirt f*ckers.

While the targets are distracted, here comes Countrywide and B of A to steal all your houses through foreclosure, bend over and smile, 'Merkuh, you just been mugged. How's that vanilla purity doing for ya under the overpass?

No progressive movement should rely too much on a single man (or woman). Everyone is vulnerable to internal flaws or external slander. Our strength lies in numbers, not leaders.

So... Is this going to affect the Clinton Campaign?

Will it all be forgotten by the time Pennsylvania votes? Or will the memory of Bill Clinton's disgrace be lingering in the air because of Spitzer?

2-14-08
'Marketplace' Report: Spitzer Criticizes Bush

New York Governor Eliot Spitzer has accused the Bush administration of
preventing states from helping consumers avoid predatory lending practices.
Alex Chadwick talks with Steve Tripoli about what the president could have
done to stem the subprime mortgage crisis.

Listen:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18991472

Oops, can't critcize Bush...
Shades of Nixon?

Spitzer hasn't done much even as far as prosecuting goes. Just slapping few million dollar settlements on multi-national corporate wrongdoers who are already billions rich and not holding them accountable only keeps them "free".

As for his dirty sex scandal, he shouldn't have done it, PERIOD ! New York has plenty of economic crisis and he didn't do his damn job he was hired to do.

had he been president, would he have been impeached?

Here are some excerpts from an article at the wsws.org by Bill Van Auken entitled: "Politically Directed Dragnet Snares New York Governor Spitzer" --

"Whether the entire matter began merely as a routine bank investigation is open to question. It is hard to believe that no one knew about Spitzer's patronizing of prostitutes, given his high public profile and 24-hour-a-day security detail.

"What would be the political motive for setting such a trap? On his way up the political ladder, Spitzer made some powerful and bitter enemies. As New York state attorney general, many of his targets were on Wall Street, including New York Stock Exchange President Richard Grasso, whom he publicly censured for his $187.5 million salary, leading to Grasso's resignation. He threatened such figures as Goldman Sachs' former chairman John Whitehead and Hank Greenburg, former chairman of insurance giant AIG.

"US Chamber of Commerce President Thomas Donohue called his legal tactics 'the most egregious and unacceptable form of intimidation that we have seen in this country in a long time.' It is hardly unlikely that not a few people with substantial political influence in Washington had an interest in exacting retribution for these methods.

"Within Washington itself, there are also clearly identifiable motives for pursuing this case. Under the Bush administration, the US Department of Justice has, as New York attorney Scott Heron pointed out on the Harpers Magazine web site, prosecuted 5.2 Democrats for every Republican, and many of these Republicans were pursued only because they were caught up in cases against Democrats. Moreover, these prosecutions have in many instances been timed to coincide with the electoral cycle. Such was the case with the corruption prosecution of Alabama's Democratic governor, Don Siegelman, which Republican insiders have indicated was instigated by Bush's former chief advisor, Karl Rove.

"The controversy over the firing of nine US Attorneys that gripped Washington last year stemmed in large part from similar cases in which Rove and others sought to promote politically motivated prosecutions of Democrats. Considering the peculiar course taken by the Spitzer case, there is ample reason to suspect that it represents just such a political hit job by the Bush administration. ...

"Under the pretext of waging a 'global war on terror,' the Bush administration has demanded unrestricted access to this information, and the Democratic Party has acquiesced again and again. The Spitzer case shows to what effect such information can be used.

"If a politically powerful and immensely wealthy individual like Spitzer cannot protect himself from this increasingly Orwellian state spying apparatus, what about the average citizen?"

Click here for the entire wsws.org article - http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/mar2008/spit-m12.shtml

Note: I gave myself the username "wsws.org website" because the reporting and commentary at wsws.org is *invariably* light-years better -- more meaningful, more insightful, more accurate, more "first-order" in the questions it asks -- than at sites such as commondreams.org, counterpunch.org or similar so-called left-wing sites.

I make this point for two reasons:

1.) I'd like commondreams.org readers to check out the wsws.org website. I'm sure if you do you'll read it every day.

2.) I find that a great many of the comments offered by commondreams.org *readers* are noticeably further to the left than are the politics of the editors and founders of commondreams.org!

For example after a Ralph Nader article appears at commondreams.org, the comments by readers will be strongly in favor of Ralph Nader's presidential run. But notice who the powers-that-be at commondreams.org will support this November, and who they've supported in the past (Gore, Kerry).

They'll support whomever wins the Democratic nomination: Hillary or Obama. ... So much for the commondreams.org hierarchy supporting any fundamental changes to the political system in the United States.

By now allowing readers to comment on commondreams.org articles, it becomes strikingly clear just who represents the status quo, namely, the commondreams.org founders and editors (assuming one knows their political history of "cruise missile liberalisn"); versus who the true dissenters are -- their readership!!!

Why feel sorry for the man. I feel sorry for his wife and children who have to pay for the rotten behavior of "da Guvner",husband and father. His fall from the high pedestal he constructed is only poetic justice. Maybe the law that snagged him should not be on the books, his victims probably said the same thing about the laws that caught them, but it is on the books.
It is about time the "johns" got to publicly pay for their role in such a demeaning racket.
Bush and company are another matter and to compare them to Spitzer is misleading, two different laws two vastly different prosecutors. It the prosecution of Spitzer had been up to Congress he wouldn't have been caught, such prosecution would hit too close to home, prostitution is practiced in both parties, mainly of principal, less of body.

Bush has F'ed the USA and he will get away with everything!
Have you seen the Ashcroft (SP) deal 30 million to watchdog a corp. that should be shutdown for crimes against the American people - what am i thinking of course you have you are "Common Dreamers"!!!

great article by the way. I am a very liberal person.
I think hypocracy is at play here. The same standards should be applied evenly across the board. Sptizer is renown for prosecuting prostitutious act and sending people to jail, so I think he deserves to go to jail as well.

With that said, I dont think this scandal should be used as a distraction from our national problems: oil prices, Iraq/Iran, sub-primes mortgages, he economy and etc.
But I think rich and powerful people should not be above the law

Call me crazy, but consensual sex (be it straight or gay) may be a failure of character (if your married for example)...but it's not in and of itself a reason to be forced from office. It shows poor judgment, but that's about it.

BUT...prostitution is different. It's a crime, it's illegal. Now, we can argue if it SHOULD be illegal....but for better or worse right now it is. Public officials, Republicans and Democrats alike, who knowingly CHOOSE to violate the law like that deserve to be tossed out.

Didn't Louisiana Senator David Vitter just skate on by last year when he was found to be on the famous Washington Madam's list even though that story was backed up by a Louisiana prostitute claiming he had been her customer for years?

And didn't a news story surface that Cheney was on the Madam's list as well? Didn't that story die a quick death?

Apparently, if the politician involved is a Republican, the sex must be gay sex for it to count against him, and for him to have to resign, it must be gay sex with underage boys (note Larry Craig was not forced to resign, while Mark Foley was). If it is a Democrat, any sex outside of marriage counts and can lead to resignation or impeachment. Those are apparently the current rules.

I can understand when people say "it's his personal business", but this was NOT only his "personal business". If one has an affair, that's personal business....but when you hire a prostitute, it's NOT a personal choice...it's called ILLEGAL.

By the argument some use to classify this as "personal", does that mean I can buy and smoke crack...after all, it's just my personal choice?

Thank you, Mr. Scheer for getting to the dark underbelly of this story. When will Americans stop looking at the shallow headlines and begin to analyze the far-reaching subtext of this story?
I smell machinations that run like an interweaving network of sinister tentacles. Let us use this opportunity to completely open up and uncover the real political abuses. Time to expose all the high-powered Wall Street/MIC/big pharma/big oil/big media cartel and its real purpose for this little diversion. Mr Spitzer, how silly of you, even if your "crime" was minute in comparison to the Bushco/Cheney cabal of criminals, and their establishment of the American "stazi."

"How come there is no news about the other johns who were allegedly caught in this sting?"

Because they didn't catch any others. Once they had the dope on Spitzer, they quickly took the wiretaps down to prevent any Wall-St. friendly politicians getting caught up in it.

Read a story yesterday that TIA - Total Information Awareness - never died, it just went underground and kept right on accumulating information on Americans.

Maybe the two are linked? Why IS the DoJ investigating minor prostitution rings in a time of terrorism? Did they really have nothing better to do? Couldn't leave it to the NY AG?

I think they're just trying again to taint the Democratic Party as the party of hedonists and pervs. Dirty tricks to get St. Straight Talk elected (or at least make it a close enough race that they can steal it AGAIN.)

Robert Scheer as always nails it. Why the friggin outrage ? Would this really have surfaced if he was a Republican ? Wall Street went after him and drove a stake through his heart like they said they would.

Its frightening how the media and their kindred souls the Wall Street honchos have us by our cojones. They determine whats fit to print. We consume what they tell us to !!

You'd think that a guy who had to be hated with a purple passion with the wall street gang mwould be smart enough to keep his pecker in his pants!

Another fine example of the effectiveness of warrantless wiretaps. Collecting dirt on political figures is a great way to keep them in line. Why do you think the Dems are so eager to take a dive for Bush at every opportunity?

Goldangit, Mr. Scheer ... you're messin' up a perfectly good story by dragging all this context into it.

Spitzer will be fine in his exile from public duty. Just look how Larry Craig's getting along since ... oh. Wait. Nevermind.

Just another case of Democrats being totally and completely pummeled by the Republicans. The Repugs are laughing about how easy it is to "get rid of" any Dem that they perceive as a threat to their wealth and power. And the Dems make it so easy. It's the men vs. the boys. Spitzer was going after high powered interests and now he's gone. Next!!!

In many countries prostitution is legal. Governments don't waste money trying to stop the unstopable. They even collect taxes. However, I question what was so good that he paid $80,000 for it...Maybe I lack imagination.

Personally, I would not be surprised if he was targeted by those who feared him, which doesn't excuse his stupidity in his actions...and stupidity is the word that says far more than morality.

Hey, we think other parts of the world are fundamentalist? Wow! Why can we not get clarity that what a person does in his personal sphere is his business -- and what he does in the public sphere is ours? Bush and his friends screw and suck-off an entire country and world -- and he is tragically still with us still playing that truly criminal role of the great "decider." What folly!

No one made Spitzer use prostitutes. He knew what would happen to his career and reputation if he got caught. Shed no tears for a man who obeyed his groin rather than his conscience.

The damage from Spitzer's personal life to the larger crusade against financial chicanery has already been done, just as Bill Clinton's use of an intern probably cost us the large penalty of Democrats losing The White House in 2000----possibly even causing, indirectly, the Iraq War.

The goal worth pursuing now is to spin the Spitzer affair against the Clintons----to the benefit of real change, which is embodied at this moment in Obama.

I thought I heard somewhere that the Public Integrity division of the FBI usually doesn't investigate prostitution rings, but they did in this case. I would like to know who spurred this investigation to begin with. Why did the FBI take this on? What's behind that? Was it a frame up? I just watched Spitzer's dignified resignation speech and I am saddened by the loss of a capable man from public life, where most pols are lowly incompetents who take joy in the failings of others, and where PUBLIC corruption proceeds unscathed. What a sad, petty world we live in.

Unfortunately, sometimes good people do bad things.How come there is no news about the other johns who were allegedly caught in this sting? Is there any truth to the rumor that Spitzer was investigating 911? I do not condone his behavior,but compared to Bush,he is a choir boy!

re: doesn't cut it as a marketing bonanza

Look, what is 'news' and what isn't has little to do with profits alone! The news is a form of propaganda supporting the status quo. That's why BushCo hasn't been impeached--it's been a decision NOT to impeach him by the powerful people that run the media. It's not that an impeachment wouldn't sell newspapers and have people glued to the TV--IT WOULD!

Wake up and smell the raw power of elite-controlled media: propaganda of the status quo.

THIS IS A COOP BY THE FINANCIAL INTERESTS OF THE BANKS, WALLSTREET AND THE MEDIA!! SPITZER IS OUR DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNOR AND ENJOYS WIDESPREAD SUPPORT!! HE CANNOT BOW DOWN LIKE THIS!! THE PEOPLE MUST NOT LET HIM BE TAKEN OUT LIKE THIS!! THIS IS AN ATTACK AGAINST DEMOCRACY AND THOSE WHO GO AFTER CORRUPTION!!

ARE WE NEW YORKERS JUST GOING TO LET THIS GO DOWN LIKE THIS!?!?!
CALL YOUR FUCKING ELECTED OFFICIAL NOW!!! TELL THEM YOU ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE DECISION AND DO NOT SUPPORT HIS RESIGNATION!! CALL THE GOVERNORS OFFICE, CALL THE ASSEMBLY!! CALL EVERYONE IN THE STATE AND TELL THEM HOW YOU FEEL!!!!

ITS NOT lIKE HE's BANGNING LITTLE BOYS! IT WAS CONSENSUAL SEX!!! WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?

DO SOMETHING! SAY SOMETHING!!
DoNT LET THIS COOP BE SUCCESSFUL
(no offense to David Patterson, good guy too, but this whole situation cant go down like this!)