"Ah well, hopefully the worst prophecies of global warming will come true and solve the problem."
---Yeah, THAT's a healthy attitude---let the village die to save the village....YOIKS!

Anti-whaling nations could stop the Japanese if they wanted to. Trade boycotts, tourism boycotts etc. Lots of ways of applying pressure, but the governments dont care. Most japanese people dont support it, just as most Canadians dont support hunting of seals or grizzly bears or hunting in general.

If they allow commercial whaling by the Japanese, how will that stop Norway or other countries, or tribal groups like the Makah (why dont they want to resume human slavery too?) from doing the same?

Ah well, hopefully the worst prophecies of global warming will come true and solve the problem. The slate needs to be wiped clean--just unfortunate that other species have to suffer for the failures of one.

GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!
GREED, CRUELTY, STUPIDITY!

I hope someone has the presence of mind to at least furnish a copy of these reprehensible plans to the whales.

The Japanese have refused to abide by an international whaling ban,"INCREASINGLY ESCALATING its activities until it now kills more than 1,000 great whales a year [under the guise of 'scientific research'] and sells the meat."

And so now the Japanese are going to abide by the restrictions of an international whaling agreement for a "limited hunt" in its own waters only?

Hoo Boy.

It would appear that once again that money is stronger than decency. Thus it up to those who care about the whales to make too expensive for the Japanese to continue this barbarous practice (Iceland and Norway are waiting in the wings to see if they can restart this as well).

Japan needs ways to express its own arrogance and ignorance, too, so no surprises. Way to go Japan. Let's show what stellar exemplars you are! Why did god have to leave the planet to self-interested fools to run?

Who is buying the whale meat?
How could it be so profitable to operate a whaling fleet when your supply is limited and declining?
What will the poor whalers do for work when the whales are gone!
They better start some night classes, or maybe someone will buy neocon pelts.
Brains are already too hard to find.

The Japanese buy the whale meat. As do the Chinese. Most of Japan's food comes from the sea and not from farming land, for obvious reasons. But the Japanese people have been sold a bill of goods by the FA (Japanese Fisheries Agcy): that whales must be destroyed "for balance" because they eat too many fish! (Maybe the Japanese should Google 'ocean decline'; they'd see that whales aren't the culprits.)

There is another element, too: national pride. The pro-whaling lobby is very strong there and they view the loss of whaling as a loss of national pride. They see giving up whaling as some sort of a cultural humiliation.

12monkeys March 9th, 2008 3:10 pm

"What will the poor whalers do for work when the whales are gone!"

The "poor whalers", like everyone else involved in the "over-fishing" industry will have to find a job doing something else.

Greed will eventually destroy the entire planet!

Japan consumes one third of the entire world's fish harvest. I guess too much isn't enough. I suppose it's a good thing they also like tofu, sooner or later they will need to transition to a new protein source.

and papananook,
It wouldn't be letting the village die to save the village, it would be letting the village die to save the planet. Not that there will be any saving. Nothing will be to avert global warming, the zealots think god(sic) will save them, the rich think they can buy their way out of the suffering and the politicians couldn't find their asses with both hands. I just hope I live long enough to rub some noses in the shit they refused to clean up.

a book recommended by a regular poster on another thread: 'the world without us' by alan weisman. in a chapter preview i read, the author wrote about the plastics going into the oceans, rivers and seas. despicable as it is, i don't think we have to worry about the japanese, icelanders, norwegians, faroe islanders or any other nation hunting these wonderful creatures. soon enough, their food supply will be polluted/dead/extinct from the ingestion of these man made monsters.................either way, there is no hope for the whales or mankind. according to the author, even the cockroaches get it in the end...............

They figure the worlds going to hell anyway, may as well eat the only truly intelligent mammals....

coco, yes plastic is particularly damaging of the marine debris. I think it is in Australia that there is an organization rescuing sea birds. The birds think that the plastic bits are food and feed them to their chicks. The chicks starve from the non-food or they get a blockage that kills them. The debris is fatal to other sea life as well. I would like to live on the coast (any coast!) and volunteer to help with the animals and the clean up. There is a tv series right now called The Planet After Man. I wonder if it is based on the book you mention, The World Without Us? Thanks for the reference.

The Bloody Whale Poachers! They tried to put a bullet right thru the heart of Captain Watson & he would be dead right now if not for a kevlar vest, an anti-poaching badge & a miracle! And they did this whilst poaching in a Sanctuary no less! The Southern Ocean Sanctuary where they have also been poaching endangered species of whales! They are Dolphin killers too!
They should not be rewarded for all that & the Sea Shephered should not be the one called 'militant' over butter balls, the poachers were throwing real flash grenades too & injured crew. They were not researching for whales, they were researching for killing, killing, killing.

THE BOYCOTT PETITION IS AT:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/8/stop-the-killing-boycott-Japan

And for & from The Dolphins too
& Their Cetacean Defenders:
'I'll Stand by You! '
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=1x5nfRF6K_k&NR=1

If Jules Verne was alive today, his Captain Nemo and the Nautilus might be sinking the whaling and factory fishing ships. I guess he would be a fictional eco-terrorist.

The Japanese have to know hunting the whale population beyond sustainability is stupid, but even if they don't, there seems to be a large international community looking out for the whales.

Regarding issues like their cultural pride and enforcement, how would they like it if some or their whaling ships were confiscated or even sunk? That would be a better use for the US Navy than terrorizing Iran.

Regarding the US Navy, it may be doing more harm to the whale population with its high powered sonar than the Japanese taking a few thousand every year. I'm sure Dubya and company want to overturn, or even just ignore, the ruling of that "activist judge" who told the Navy to take it easy on the sonar.

Yes, if i were a whale, i would be organizing the whale underground.
I'd be enlisting the dolphins and especially the tuna who are so endangered.
I'd email the sharks and the sailfish whose neptunian tactics are well
worth saving. I'd let em know there are a few humans out there who
actually care what happens to them.

I'd enlist empathic humans to further my cause. Brother human, haven't
you seen the Star Trek sequel? Whales are our brothers and they are
your saviors, If you will help to save them, we help to save ourselves. Can't
you see that.

We are all caught up in the same web of life.
Even though we were taught the big lie,
The one that says all is disconnected.
We know it's all a lie.

And now as we approach the end of Gregorian Time,
The lie is exposed
The light returns with the promise that it will go
whereever darkness hides.

The light will show that it doesn't favor torture, inequality or
the specialness of certain arrogant humans who just
happen to control capital. You worship the false idols and golden
calves which the bible so aptly describes.

You choose suffering and addiction over redemption by choosing the material over
the spiritual, by glorifying the lower instincts over the higher. As if evolution
ever goes in reverse. Your arrogance is supreme. Your denial, more than a river
which flows thru Egypt.

You will have your way even though it assures the destruction of most of mankind.
You think your riches will protect you? Well they won't! What you put out will come back
to you, if not in this life, the next. Now is the time to choose love over fear.

The Japanese consider kitchens laboratories and plates and chopsticks scientific instruments. This sham, cloaking environmentally irresponsible hunting of endangered species in the guise of scientific research, violates the spirit, if arguably not the letter, of the law.

Kelmer: agreed.

Libertas fugit: agreed.

Papananook: you just don't get it. I believe Kelmer is saying that our attitude towards whales is indicative of our broader attitude. I believe that what Kelmer is saying that one can not be destructive to others without ultimately being destructive to one's self. Some of us for some reason or other have just opened our hearts to the feelings of others, and for those of us, Compassion is a good enough reason to agitate to ending acts which contain cruelty. For others it is useful to know you can't exploit and harm others without at some time or other suffering the consequences yourself. Today we are starting to see this with the way we have exploited the planet and its life so much that the climate is heating, and now we are all going to suffer. Part of the problem has been caused by the way we have factory farmed animals: it turns out that the consequence has been rampant methane emissions, as well as loss of oxygen regenerating plants (the lungs of the planet) resulting in global warming. This is I believe an example of what Kelmer has expressed. Kelmer is not rejoicing at the wipeout we are all about to suffer, rather, Kelmer is clearly bitter and angry when he (or she) says "hopefully the worst prophecies of global warming will come true"... it is obvious that Kelmer's true hope is that we humans stop being so selfish and cruel, that we stop harming defenceless animals and that we work compassionately and carefully towards a solution in harmony with the planet's ecosystem and all lives today which depend on it.

12monkeys: (aptly named) what ARE you talking about?

Gail: Agreed

The Car (or SUV) is going off a cliff and everyone's arguing about where to sit!I'm in the trunk tied up with duct-tape over my mouth, kidnapped by human greed, apathy and stupidity.

Nietzsche was right, God is dead and so are we. Soon!

Ciao

NatW of course, "money is stronger than decency" we are talking about humans here! Humans for the most part don't give a shit about anything other than themselves. If a few million Americans boycotted all Japanese products Japanese whaling would end. This is easy to do and I've gotten along fine without anything from Japan for years. Try it!!

When the fish and whales are gone there will be plenty of work at the soylent green plant. Greater growth from unregulated capitalism will solve all problems and meet all needs. Just watch Fox news and listen to your Republicans.

When the aliens come to hunt some intersting flesh (for scietific purposes, of course) I will be the snitch that tells them Japanese are tastey!

What's the problem here??? The Japs have found that a bunch of food can be had with not much effort. As we in the West pull our wagons around the fire to stave off the savages, we oughta be thinking about where our next meal is coming from. Of course, Japs are tasty...as are the rest of human flesh...if you're starving. Look down the road and figure which of your neighbors will have their eyes on your hocks when times get tough(er).

Let the Japs have their way, and all that want to exploit the resources of Mother Earth...shark fin soup, for Chrissake????? Sooner or later we'll all pay the price, and it won't come in the form of "No down payment...No payments until 2010...Free Delivery."

My kids wonder why I'm such a cynic. I mean...I mean...Is there really any other way to look at this ridiculous situation???

What a scrumptious set of posts. Wow. I've almost got a hard-on. (Now I'm wondering if the CD censors will excise this comment on the basis of that lewd sarcasm!)

I've never eaten whale meat. Not--at least--that I know of. I live in Taiwan, so seafood is pretty prominent on the menus of any local fare. But I don't see the point. Well, rather, I do see the point, but I don't see the point of the point. Hunting whales is a big bang-for-the-buck business. They're big, I say, BIG. You snag one whale, and you've got more "seafood" in much easier slices than you'd get if you trawled a net for small-fry.

This is nothing more than the meat-industry trying to maximize its profits vis-a-vis its spending. Not so dissimilar to agriculturists seeking the fattest banana or the fastest-growing, most disease-resistant soybean. The problem here is that they're going after the top of the food-chain. Plants don't [necessarily...I'm a botanist and I won't bore you with all the sundry details of nutrient competition] eat plants, but whales are limited in number by the food sources they consume.

Cut out their base, and they starve. Over-harvest (as if wild populations don't already fall under the category of being self-limiting) and you get an imbalance in the lower trophic tiers. It's interesting to consider the idea that we could "sustainably" (along the dangerous slope of declining ocean life, mind you) harvest whales and yet have no impact on the marine food chain given the other declining populations of potential whale food sources, isn't it?

Could that possibly be a "scientific" factor in these secret plans? Culling the top feeders in concert with the observed decline of available food sources for whales? Have we given up on aqua vitae?

As I recall, the last news item I saw on Japanese whaling (a couple months ago)indicated there is a very limited market for whale meat; it has to be given away to school lunch programs, nursing homes and whatnot. Sorry I can't provide a link. Does anybody else know if my memory is correct?

The elder spirits of the whales are sacred, so many people have no respect. Life everywhere is so under threat, even if you can't perceive it. Something has to change.

Less than 10% of the Japanese population consume whale meat.

Under the present conditions of a technical moratorium, the supplies of meat that are sold into this niche market are extremely limited, thus prices are highly inflated.

It is a very profitable business if you own a harpooning vessel and can stomach the horror.

Banning whaling entirely would force whalers to become pirates, and the market that they supply to shrink and become black. Profits would rise, but at least there'll be no more loopholes to exploit.

WmC, I believe you are correct. I have read that the younger generations of Japanese don't like whale meat--feel it has a strong, unpleasant taste. Probably why it's being supplied to school lunch programs--an attempt to give the children a taste for it.

By opting for this "compromise", the IWC would be writing off for good the 25,000 small "coastal whales-dolphins and pilot whales" that are killed annually off Japan's coasts.

Since these small whales and dolphins have been proven to have Minamata-level and above mercury toxicity levels in the meat, the IWC would in effect be saying, "Let's compromise and let the Japanese eat toxic dolphin waste! Let them hunt off their shores and feed the dolphin and whale meat laced with mercury to schoolchildren throughout the country in the Japan Whaling Association-sponssore lunch programs. Who cares if the unknowning Japanese pregnant moms or older people already experiencing early onset Alzheimers-like symptoms from this poison dolphinmeat suffer like the residents of Minamamata did in the 50's and still do today?"

Shame on the IWC "compromisers". NIMBY wimps.

Here is the link to the recent NY Times article you may be seeking on the dolphin kill/ mercury poisoning issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/world/asia/21dolphin.html?_r=1&ex=1204693200&en=5abc27cf1f831e16&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin

>>As I recall, the last news item I saw on Japanese whaling (a couple months ago)indicated there is a very limited market for whale meat; it has to be given away to school lunch programs, nursing homes and whatnot. Sorry I can't provide a link. Does anybody else know if my memory is correct?<

not only the japanese but the us navy is attacking whales and dolphin with enhanced sonar. just gave these comments to a navy hearing on the effects of what they are doing.

We all know sound travels much faster and further underwater than above it.

Science indicates dolphin and whales know where each other are located by using their sonar. Science has now shown us they each say their own name (as a unique sound signature) plus the individual's name they are talking to. We know they are a high order of sea life and that they have a sophisticated social system.

Possibly, their communication system is helpful when whaling ships are approaching, likely their biggest threat to survival today? Also, their food supply is dwindling due in no small part to the chemicals leaching into the oceans through the polluted and dirty water that continuously drains from landfills and other contaminated areas throughout the world.

Whales and dolphin are facing these major challenges to their survival and now the Navy has escalated its war on this species by blasting them with incomprehensible sonic sound levels that surely confuses and disorients them, disables their communication system, damages them internally, and makes their world uninhabitable. They have no other place to live! Likely, they commit suicide by beaching themselves in ever increasing numbers because they have been unable to tolerate this war being waged upon them.

The Earth needs these gentle beings for their important ecological role. In addition, they demonstrate very rare interspecies compassion, by the many instances of dolphin and whales protecting human lives from sharks.

What are we doing?

Surely, the Navy with all its resources can confine testing to small areas at limited times and save this harmful technology for a true emergency, if needed?

Why not, develop other methods of detection to demonstrate our compassion for another species as they have demonstrated their compassion for us?

Thank you very much,