Zhongman

The is real value in living the old ways, it is too bad many people don't figure this out until they are old. You don't realize what you have until it is gone.

Yes Treefrog, It's a tangled web indeed. The idea is to get something on everybody so they can't object. Old age is scary for many and it's hard for older people to change their ways, but we all can support local agriculture even if our government doesn't. It will take a while to get out of this trap.

Zhongman

Very good points. I some communities people pool thier money to access non-industrialized processed food. It is also important to look how these private companies are funded. Lots of people are funding things they object to through thier retirement accounts. These investment firms put your money in places you might object with, it is time to find out where your money goes, it maynot be in your best interest.

I read an informative article last year on very healthy (and Illegal) raw milk. Of course it needs to be consumed soon after it comes from the cow. Many cultures (like China) have a food distribution system where vegetables and meat are picked/slaughtered the same day they are consumed. People shop for the day in the morning and hence are always eating fresh food. That's where it at, fresh. If it's in a box or can, stay away from it. These large corp. organizations can't deliver that fast and the food we get from them is sometimes weeks old before it hits the skillet. Go fresh, go local and let the corporations figure out what to do with all that unused processed food. Stop buying their shit!

elmysterio...I agree. That is why I have voted for Nader for over 20 years.

Treefrog... You make an important point. The ultimate responsibility is with the stockholders. Anyone who owns Monsanto or stock in other anti-humanitarian corporations is also complicit. That also means that anyone who pays taxes to the US government is a war criminal.

Another example of how the US GOVERNMENT IS YOUR ENEMY. They are a government by and for the corporations. A "Fuck the people" attitude is prevalent.

r jackowski

Excellent article that stresses the need to be vigilant. BGHr is a synthetic growth hormone, the real stuff is very expensive. Monsanto check out the stockholder information, lots of people are invested in this without knowing it by investment groups. If people would take more responsibility about what they do we might change things. Just not buying something is not going to work in and of it's self.

Some of you are right. The US government refused to allow Creekstone Farms to test its own cattle at it own expense. The government wants the information about prion diseases kept secret from the consumers. If the government had allowed Creekstone to test its cattle, the whole system of secrecy would have been exposed. We will never know how many have already died from prion diseases.

Read my article titled "Monsantos Udder Disgrace". Just one more situation where the corporations are relying on secrecy in order to profit from their unsafe products.

WE REALLY NEED NADER NOW BEFORE THE WHOLE FOOD SUPPLY GOES DOWN!

so the USDA is trying to tell me that it is not my business to know if i ate contaminated beef? what else is not my business to know?

so the USDA is trying to tell me that it is not my business to know if i ate contaminated beef? what else is not my business to know? THAT IS A BUNCH OF BS!!!!

Buy local, from a producer and vendor you trust.

It's supremely cruel, this incident. But not only this incident. The whole euphemistically named "meat industry". It's a business of brutality and exploitation of defenceless creatures. Creatures we have brought into being, moulded into the form we desire as though they are just commodities, and not lives, not beings with their own hopes and yearnings for freedom in the security and comfort of their own herds. Just like us. With some minor differences - no technology, no arrogance.

We don't need meat of any sort to live. In fact it's a leading cause of heart disease, and dammit, the factory farms and the methane emissions are killing the planet.

For the smartest most compassionate animal on the planet, we are the dumbest cruelest most heartless animal on the planet.

I have one last thought to add. For many years now, I have been privately wondering if this increase in the number of cases of Alzheimer's, dementia, senility, etc... is not really mad cow disease. Mad cow disease takes years to become visibly noticed. I've heard different times that it takes to display itself. But I've heard twenty years or so mentioned the most often. And this number was mentioned from what I considered the most informed on the issue.

I know it's a crazy idea and that's why I almost never mention it but could it be true that there is a relation? And that it isn't just Alzheimer's or some other ailment that seems to be affecting more and more of the elderly but Mad Cow disease instead?

Just a thought.

freethinker68--I disagree that we need Ralph Nader in the white house. I think this article is proof that we can't afford for him to go to the white house-- we need him to do the job he already has. There was a time when Ralph protected us from things like this, before he decided to stick his nose into politics. If Ralph is president, how much time do you think he will have to deal with consumer protection issues like this?

ticonderoga

I think you have it right. The FDA as a regulatory agency is not really a stakeholder as much as a middleman. The cost of testing one in every thousand cows is much less than testing all cows. Plus, if you find an unhealthy cow, well that is going to get pretty expensive. So, it is more than just free speech.

Thanks, Treefrog. I think I get it:

The FDA doesn't want small farmers, especially organic ones who don't feed their cows growth hormones or ground-up cows or stuff like that, to label their beef as proven to be Mad Cow free because then people will realize that most beef isn't proven to be Mad Cow free, which will force the big agribusinesses to test every cow in order to compete.

Huh? Someone who produces a superior product isn't legally allowed to label their product as superior because it might harm the business of someone else who makes an inferior product.

Wow! Imagine trying to tell a small car manufacturer that they can't tell people that their cars get 40 mpg because their larger competitors' cars only get 25 mpg!

Isn't this infringing on freedom of speech, or something like that?

Well, are we surprised that the government agency is protecting the business interests? That is par for the course with the Republican administration. Big Business, after all, is who owns this country.

There is no reason not to test every cow as they do in Europe but they (FDA) consider it a competitive advantage, people would notice there is currently very inadaquate levels of testing. (not to mention safeguards are not practiced or regulated as was seen in the HS-video) There are other factors the bean counters use to determine what constitutes the value of not testing.

If you use adaquate sanitation and food handling, e-coil is not life threatening. People probably eat a lot of e-coil without knowing it unless it is the super e-coil that is produced in feed lots. Considering all the stuff that is in food (sigh):

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/ceah/cei/taf/emerginganimalhealthissues_files/dioxins.htm

unkanny, are you saying that the FDA is trying to prevent a farm from testing every cow if it wants to, or is the FDA trying to prevent a farm from having to test every cow?

If it's the former, I don't get it at all. If a farm wants to test every cow for Mad Cow disease before it sells the meat from that cow, why should the FDA care?

> You would have to test every cow

The FDA expressly prohibits such testing. It's appealing a Federal judge's ruling that Creekstone Farms be allowed to test every cow, something they MUST do to sell to Japan. Cost, effectiveness, none of that matters, it's not allowed so all other factors in whether to test become moot.

It is a good thing that e coli testing does not require reagents controlled by the FDA.
I suspect that if the EPA could prevent people from testing for mercury and other toxins, it would. Ignorance increases confidence. Or so the FDA tells me.

You would have to test every cow as they are slaughtered before the age where symptoms would be apparent. Before factory farms cows were 5 or 6 years old, now it is around one year.

Kernel, what are you doing? As homeward-angel said already, at this time there is no way to detect Mad Cow Disease in the field, not by a veterinarian or anyone. It can only be detected once a cow is dead.

gde

There are range cattle where I live, both beef cattle and dairy (conventional farms), but less than a hundred miles from here is one of the factories in that video. There are also feed lots but they are small in comparison to the factory operations. Visit http://Scorecard.org you will see that none of these factory places have sewage treatment and the size of the problems. Consider 90,000 places with thousands of animals. It makes my heart sick.

Treefrog, you are absolutely correct. There are dairy factories and meat factories in the Chino/Ontario area, but no farms of consequence in the traditional sense. 150 years ago people ranged cattle, but it took a huge area /head to support them. Water and food are shipped in, and the shit poses a major problem to the prime natural water supply of Orange County, since there is far too much for the earth to recycle in situ.

I think people are going to end up like the pigs in that video, only a bigger pen. Think about those already in thier corporate work cubicles living in corporate housing, eating corporate food, getting thier corporate shots and and finally thier corporate death certificates.

If you sit down with a legal pad and list all the things that you provide for yourself without the aid of a corporation. Where you have established a choice and know the impact of your choice to yourself (family-think 7- generations)and your environment. Food is a good place to start, there is a lot of information in this thread to consider. It is very difficult to live outside of corporate rule and getting harder every day.

Hi hybridoma2001 -- Very well stated, and tremendously significant for meat eaters to consider.

When you mention that "We have some great minds in this country, only they're being kept under lock and key," I thought to only add that they are subject a different form of economic slavery than most "wage slaves" in this country.

Most true science can only occur in larger Federally supported universities, research labs, or similar -- as the costs for equipment and pristinely clean labs is too far beyond anything else.

While focused research at corporations is not very pure (or general open ended) but is particularly targeted upon a near term profit (or fire those expensive scientists, and let them go work wherever).

The lock and key is economic, and "social" power, as many jobs are manipulated by politic appointed "public relations" dilettantes - like the lying SOB at NASA shutting down Hansen on Global climate change, who didn't even have any college degree (but was good friends with rethuglican mob).

I mention this because it is an immense crime against humanity, where publicly funded efforts are twisted into private gain, and needed results are buried as politically unwarranted for public knowledge of, as that would bring too much attention (way too soon for enough profiting) upon illegal, corrupt, and unhealthy aspects of corporate practices.

Namaste
… … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … & … ML King … … Inspiration … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — MLK

"I wish people on this site would stop claiming that human beings aren't equipped for eating meat. We are omnivores, that's why you have incisor and "canine" teeth up front, and "grinding" teeth in the back."

Being so equipped is hardly sufficient reason to do it. I have hands with which I might pet or strangle my cat -- which ought I to choose? That's the real question facing omnivorous meat-eaters.

anne faith, indeed it does.

hybridoma, the fact that none of the scientists at the lab eats beef says it all.

Prions were mentioned earlier in this thread. I worked at a level three biological research center in San Francisco, where Dr.Stan Prusiner, the Nobel Prize winning scientist for the discovery of prions was the director.

To destroy prions is amazingly difficult. First, they need to be submerged in 1 normal sodium hydroxide for no less than twelve hours. After that, they go into the autoclave where they are exposed to extremely high temperatures for an hour or so. I wish I could remember the degrees celsius. Only then is it considered safe to dispose of this hazardous waste.

To finish, not one scientist working at the lab ate beef and in talks about recent research, the USDA was kept out of all lectures because of a fear of losing government funding.

What a disgrace and crime that the scientific community is basically gagged for fear of government reprisals.

I am not a scientist. I was just a lab technician, but I learned a hell of a lot while working there. We have some great minds in this country, only they're being kept under lock and key.

Another surprise, the gov't protecting corporations. When this country will turn off American Idol and Survivor and recognize that big gov't and big corp are the same and they don't give a rat's butt about us. Only then could something positive happen. Oh, but did you see who got voted off last week...? We are doomed not only by this gov't and big greedy corps, but mainly by the average ignorant and arrogant American.

What hasn't gone to s... under the watchful eye of George W Bush! He is the most corrupt man in the universe. He has cut funds to the FDA to where they can barely exist. I don't think there are any laws governing our country anymore. Except for what Bush wants to enforce which is none. And still people vote these 'Robber Baron's' into office whenever they can. People just never seem to learn these people are for big business and no one else.

arise257 March 8th, 2008 6:44 pm

"I wish people on this site would stop claiming that human beings aren't equipped for eating meat. We are omnivores, that's why you have incisor and "canine" teeth up front, and "grinding" teeth in the back."

I agree humans are omnivores and cows are grass eaters. The biggest problems we have with beef today is they are feed corn which is not a natural food for them. If you ever get a chance try some beef that is grass fed only. You would not believe how much better tasting/tender it is.

Corn is use to add weight quickly to a cow. It also adds a lot of fat, fat that is unhealthy. You can see it in the marbling. A grass fed cow doesn't have much marbling and contrary to public opinion marbling doesn't add much flavor. In my opinion, based on years of cooking, the most favorable tender steaks are the ones with the least amount of marbling.

I personally, according to the cut, rarely us any seasonings on my steak.

Kernel, i must disagree with you on that. The nature of the 'disease' of mad cow makes it impossible to detect in the field. these prions are very dangerous little buggers and if not checked could cause a total collapse of the system. just imagine in 15 years when millions in the us and other countries start developing alzhemers symptoms at the same time. Prions cannot be incinerated, so even the ash is a biological threat. So call that scare tactics.

This is factory production not farming. This video demonstrations there is really nothing about raising pigs that constitutes farming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FBKeYXgm_w&feature=related

Kelmer. I think you will find out that Canada is a lot more up front about any mad cow cases than the US.

From the article:

.....But Richard Raymond, USDA undersecretary for food safety, told an incredulous House Appropriation's agriculture panel this week the information is "proprietary" and would not be released.....

The ARROGANCE of this administration's agency heads is beyond belief.

And another thing... that video recently made public by the Humane Society which showed those obviously sick cows at the Hallmark slaughterhouse being prodded, bulldozed and struck to get them up off the ground was documentation enough to indicate a serious problem with the meat industry. That was not an isolated incident.

It's time to start BOYCOTTING some of these entities and making it stick.

Kernel said:
"Of course they need to be checked by a veterinarian in case of Mad Cow disease"

When did we have the break-through that gave Vets the ability to determine if a cow has Mad Cow disease in the field?
I thought that could only be done in a lab with much effort.

You are correct on that ~Kernel~. I've seen healthy dairy cows that could run a race at age 18. They have to be milked. That blog stating milking dairy cows ruins them is nonsense.

But I suspect some wko blog here might be suffering from mad cow disease.

Why would anyone think a cartoonist would know anything about dairy cows and the effects of being milked? I have run a dairy for a number of years and can tell you there is nothing to that story as cows are supplemented with all the calcium and other minerals they need as are most all farm animals.

Some cows are like humans, they wear out from natural causes and some are injured in loading or hauling and may not stand. Of course they need to be checked by a veterinarian in case of Mad Cow disease, but that has been brought under control in this country. I believe Canada has still had problems with it.

It is difficult to see the value of misinformation being put out on this subject. We should be alert but these scare stories do no service to anyone.

I am SICK and TIRED of this Capitalistic clap trap about businesses... if it wasn't for consumers they wouldn't be in business... and that is the ticket. Because they want to LIE and keep the trught from consumers.. we know the whole factory farm business is a sham.

Where is Oprah when we need her.

She fought the Meat Industry.. and I think she won.. didn't she?

Having this insane government put the "foxes in the henhouse" (not to guard as chessgames56 says, but to bring it down(meaning every department of the government, except the military, justice department, and the faith-based), we "chickens" have to start looking out for ourselves.

We've been lied to, and kept in the dark about so many things, I don't think there's much left that we can trust. I'm even getting paranoid about the fresh fruits and veggies I buy. I don't know where they were grown, or what was in the soil they were grown in. We don't know where our prescription drugs come from, or what might be in them. We know the regulations on them are nearly non-existant now; we don't know what our children are being subjected to in their food, their toys, or the required injections they get as babies.

One thing's for sure - humankind is gonna have to start evolving again to be able to handle all the s--- we're ingesting. And I'm sure it'll get a lot worse before it gets better - if it ever does.

"President Bush said if the Congress doesn't hurry up and grant all of Big Agriculture retroactive and universal preemptive immunity for all preventable poisonings, the US will be that much more in danger from the evil terrorists.

The President added that if "some yungin gits a tummy ache from eatin the God-blessed best dern meat in werld, theres doctors with compassion. Not that any child has ever gotten sick from tain'ed beef in 'Merica, y'see what I'm sayin - Americans must un'er stand: our meat is S A F E and you, the People, should buy and eat as much as y'all can."

The meat coming from slaughter houses is not the same thing that our ancestors ate to keep healthy. It wasn't processed and readily available, you had to raise or hunt it which meant you didn't always consum meat. I'm an ominvore as all my ancestor were before me. This is not the isse here, the issue is how our animals are treated from the time they are born until they are consumed by someone that eats meat. They pass through any number of people that have the first-hand opportunity to see that they are treaed humanely. All of these people are complicit and should have alternatives or be held accountable. What they are doing is not only unsafe it is criminal. The CEO was Steve Mendell and he should be paying a social consequence for his criminal behavior.

As in many other cases, by "proprietary" they mean "obstruction of justice". Since the outfit is going bankrupt, what the USDA is fighting for is the principle of obstruction of justice.

It is time we put a consumer advocate in the White House....DON'T YOU THINK?

Vote Nader!

The Federal Deception Agency did it again. The food supply in the U$A is not safe. Everyone needs to spread the word about prion diseases. The government and large corporations are not worried about law suits because there is no way to test a person for that exposure until it is too late. Prion diseases are almost always fatal.

i would venture to say that perhaps we should thank the USDA. afterall, it's well known that steak from a downer cow with a hint of ecoli is tastier than a steak from a healthy cow.

something about the diseased meat gives it seasoning on the microbial level.

perhaps it's an aquired taste...either way, we need more downer cows in our diet.

I wish people on this site would stop claiming that human beings aren't equipped for eating meat. We are omnivores, that's why you have incisor and "canine" teeth up front, and "grinding" teeth in the back. We don't have two stomachs like cows or other herbivores, but we do have the long digestive tract necessary for extracting energy from cellulose-laden food.

It is true that a vegetarian diet is more efficient, both in production and consumption. I'll never argue that. What I will argue is the ridiculous notion that humans aren't supposed to eat meat.

In many areas we can't protect ourselves from what the government does or doesn't do, but this is one area where we can.

It's simple, too: Don't eat meat and don't buy processed food.

A wise person I know once told me that you could save a lot of money and a lot of time by staying out of the central aisles in your local grocery store. Just walk around the outside and buy fresh food only, concentrating on fruits and vegetables and leaving out the meat, and you'll be done in 20 minutes and it won't cost you nearly as much money or time as if you bought meat and wandered around in the center aisles, buying packaged convenience foods.

Avoid cans, avoid frozen foods, avoid stuff in boxes, and avoid anything that has an ingredient in it that you don't recognize.

We have the power, especially as far as what we eat goes, but we just don't use it.

Fascinating terminology, "proprietary". Legal obscurities are well processed prior to any testimony into open microphones, nevertheless, it's transparent the USDA's role is increase or preserve the velocity of Big Agriculture's profits. There's nothing cynical about the power a sensationalist video has. Americans don't usually get to see inside Food Inc.

States are formed to protect ruling classes. Sometimes they do it with a little subtlety, sometimes not(as in this case). Our agribusiness parasites
could not care less about public health. They are about profits. They have an ally in the USDA.

Until we confront this state of affairs, it is destined to remain the same.

Makes you wonder - do we have a right to know if recalled spinach is still on the shelves?

It doesn't seem to matter if it's recalled beef or NIE regarding Iraq. Democracy assumes an informed public.
And it's decided that we don't get to know. Congress, our elected representatives, don't get to know. Only the Executive Branch gets to know. And they apparently don't read, not that people telling them verbally seems to matter much.

Like I've said before on CD, f--k the USDA.

This is the shit guarding the bull.

The Public Can Bury Their Children In Ignorance while King George Waterboards Whistleblowers! Vegans of the world Unite!

KEM PATRICK -

It warms my heart to see your words today. You had me worried yesterday.
For what it's worth, from a tiny locust, I'd miss you if you were gone.

Since progressing from Progressive to rEVOLutionary, I have come to the conclusion, where Ralph Nader was wrong, was looking to "employ" the government to protect US. The US Constitution is designed to where the government protects our rights to protect ourselves. In this frame, consumer groups would do better as private corporations. That's how oil won.

Don't worry about the food supply. Just keep chewing the fat.

Did you notice how none of the newspapers talk about how the downed cows could have mad cow disease? They 'carefully' avoided mentioning it.

Mad Cow Mad Cow Mad Cow

Of course, vegetarians will have the similar problems with GMO foods.

Did you hear about the new seed bank sponsored by Monsanto? Now is the time to start supporting your own local organic seedbanks. The sinister thing is the air is called profit under the system of capitalism, where human rights, and animal rights, have no value.

so it goes...

I don't know who ate the recalled meat, but it wasn't me. I don't even like the stuff around my food. I wish my supermarket would locate its meat department in another building, where it wouldn't bloody up the shopping carts and checkout conveyors. Dragging a diseased, half dead cow from a filthy boxcar to a hamburger grinder is bad enough, but displaying their dripping body parts in the middle of a store where I go to buy my dinner should be against the law.

Thank goodness for the blatantly transparent idiocy of USDA policy. They are obviously completely corrupt and hopefully this will provide average Americans the inspiration to become vegetarians who do not consume corporate foodstuffs. Several years ago a dear friend asked me to try going a few weeks without consuming any "food" which contained artificial coloring and I did. I would not go back now for anything. Try it for a month and see for yourself the changes which occur in your mind and body, then go into a supermarket and gaze in wonder at all the things you used to think were food and consumed without a second thought. This will revolutionize your life and free you in deeply indescribable ways. Thank you, Tim 4 Dog! Now I am kicking sugar and feel like a lifelong drug addict who has just sobered up. Animals are for petting!

Senators and consumer and animal welfare groups are calling for a complete downer ban. Downers are usually dairy cows barely able to stand due to calcium depletion from being milked intensively and are worth as little as $84 per head.

***hey its about using up a resource isnt it? Isnt that the green thing to do? And why waste the manure --just feed it back to them. Recycling(approved by idiots in lab coats). You cant reform the meat and dairy industry. Its as bad now as it was in HG Wells or George Bernard Shaw's day, or even Pythagoras' time.
Veganism is the only rational dietary choice for humans. Better to keep meat eating for species that are actually born with the equipment to do it. Humans arent.

The USDA is run by people within the beef/chicken industry. The only time they have a recall is when the outbreak has the potential of being extremely devistating. Most people don't realize that the entire industry is pretty much self regulated, and our government can't order any sort of recall. Both sides of the aisle are responsible for this hazard, but once again the public sits by and gets sick.

As far as the video being "shocking", all one has to do is go online and find the hundreds of similer videos of horrendous slaughter house conditions. Our Congress is a joke on yet another issue.

At one time in our history, this would be termed a serious crime and someone would at least be fired. This is not even sensible and who is going to do anything about it? Nobody is, the corporation's lobbyists own Congress and our presidents. If one wished to state our problems with one word, the word would be "lobbying".

We must wake up to the fact that the FDA is now completely in the pocket of the big corps that they claim to regulate. The fox(es) are indeed guarding the hen house.