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A Not-So-Simple Twist of Fate: Could Hillary Bequeath Us Our Long-Awaited Third Party?
Oh boy. Where have I seen this movie before?
I think it was four years, surprisingly enough. Hey, what a coincidence! Wasn't there a presidential election going on back then, too?
Remember how Howard Dean came out of near total obscurity, how he started walloping the presumptive front-runner, John "Fearless" Kerry, by taking bold positions (at least in the context of American politics) against the war, and against George W. Bush? Remember how Kerry changed his tune to ape Dean's message, and how nervous Democratic voters played it safe and came home to the guy with the experience and the name brand? Remember what an outstandingly effective candidate he then turned out to be? Remember the "real deal"? (Oh, and what a deal it was. I think experienced card players refer to that hand as a 'jack-shit straight, seven high', if I'm not mistaken.)
Is this ringing any bells for anyone?
Only Democrats could lose the White House in 2008. It's hard to imagine a more perfect storm favoring their decisive, landslide victory. This should be 1932 redux, and then some. There's a reviled incumbent from the opposite party, already past his expiration date four years ago when he stole a second election. There's a new nominee from that same party joined to him at the hip on the most important issues, and stupid enough to be seen as such publicly. There's the economy heading into a recession after years of lethargy for the middle class. An extremely unpopular war based on lies. A massive national debt. A housing crisis. An environmental crisis. Gas at well over three bucks a gallon. Oil over $100 a barrel. The dollar at record lows and plummeting. Pension stocks falling and cities falling apart - when they're not literally drowning. Scandals everywhere in the Republican Party. Three-fourths of the country believing America to be on the wrong track. And more. Put it all together and it's an amazing scenario! It's like some poli-sci professor somewhere was tinkering around with a real-life statistical model, setting all the variables at max to see how big a blow-out is theoretically possible. "Hey, I wonder what happens if...?"
It's a perfect, perfect storm. And then along came Hillary. Look, I certainly don't object to her running if she wants to. But I do object to how she's running, and I think Democratic voters are as dumb as a bag of hammers sitting out in the rain to pull the handle for her. In this year of the great political tsunami, Republicans have managed to - inadvertently, it would seem - choose their best hope to hold on to the presidency, even if they can't quite stand their own choice. Hillary would be the Democrats' worst hope.
She would go into the general election with all sorts of pre-existing baggage and negatives. She would get smashed to pieces by McCain on the very voter selection criteria she herself has articulated for use against Obama: experience and national security. McCain could virtually take her 3:00 a.m. ad, pull her out and drop himself in, and use it against her. And he will. Her candidacy is already ugly to contemplate, and she hasn't even released her tax filings yet. Aren't Democrats just brilliant? Hey, maybe she can get Kerry to be her running mate! Perhaps Bob Shrum is free these days, and can finally push himself into double digits on his personal best lifetime count of presidential races lost (with zero wins), by managing the campaign.
But it's not just Democrats going with the Clintons that alarms me, it's how they might win it. It is almost a mathematical certainty that neither candidate can win the nomination by means of gathering pledged delegates in the months ahead. Under the proportional allocation system Democratic primaries and caucuses tend to use, a candidate has to do exceedingly well in the popular vote to realize a significant shift in delegates. It would appear that Clinton's got some favorable states ahead, and that Obama has as many or perhaps more, unless momentum has really shifted now, after Tuesday. I tend to doubt that is the case, unless Obama goes all Massachusetts at this point, like Kerry and Dukakis, and stands by helplessly watching the steamroller as it relentlessly approaches. In which case, fine, anyhow - get the clown off the stage, he's not ready for prime-time. As a tired American progressive, worn down by disappointment across more decades of losing politics than I care to count, I can abide many things. But one of them is not another wimpy Democratic presidential nominee who gets out-slugged by the latest Karl Rove and manages yet again to seize defeat from the jaws of victory.
Anyhow, let's say we end the primary season about where we are now, with Obama about 100 delegates up, and having won more votes and more states than Clinton, but with neither candidate over the magic nomination-clinching line. It would be fairly outrageous for the Clintons to seize the brass ring at that point, but they will not care in the slightest what the ramifications of their actions might be for the party or the country. The Clintons will do anything - and I mean anything - to get the presidency. This is a sickness that infects the hearts and minds of some people much more than others. Because of their own needs, most prominently a very deep-seated personal insecurity, they simply need the validation of being president, and they go after it like a heat-seeking missile headed toward a power plant.
You don't want to get in their way, man. Road kill is no mere metaphor when someone's intensely-held life aspiration is on the line and their moral bearings got tossed overboard sometime back in their twenties. You don't get that sense of desperate pathological need from, say, Jimmy Carter or George McGovern, while individuals like George H. W. Bush or Richard Nixon fairly reeked of it. In the case of Bush the Elder, clearly the whole point of being president was to be president. He didn't seem to have any ideas of what to do with the office once he got there. In the case of his son, the whole point was to do it better than Dad, and so he had lots of completely insane ideas of what he wanted to do once he got there, particularly in areas like taxes and Iraq, where Poppy had screwed up on the way to losing a second term (amateur!).
The Clintons are very much cut from the same cloth as Old Man Bush. Actually doing something in office is incidental to the main project, which is the psychological satisfaction (and reassurance) that comes from all the attention, glory and power attached to the White House. Compared to that overwhelming goal, they no more care about national health care than does Sean Hannity. If they can win by going single-payer, so be it. If they could win by war, the death penalty and welfare slashing instead, they would. Indeed, they have. The point is that the Clintons will do anything to secure the presidency, even if that includes wrecking that part of the Democratic Party they didn't already wreck during the 1990s, and/or tossing a few body blows in the direction of American democracy. The definitive model here is the 2000 election, and the campaign I'm referring to wasn't Al Gore's, ladies and gentlemen. More like the other one in that race. Anyone with any doubt about what they're capable of needs to adjust the satellite dish on their igloo, and fast. (If she does leave the race, it's only because she absolutely cannot see any mathematical possibility of winning whatsoever, and she wants to preserve some shred of her reputation because - and only because - she'll be getting ready for 2012. Even if there's Democratic incumbent in the White House. Maybe especially if there is.)
Far more likely is that Clinton remains in the race, keeps it competitive by staying within range delegate-wise, and marches all the way to Denver fighting for the nomination. Then she plays some card, or combination of cards, in order to effectively steal it from Obama, despite his having won more states, more votes and more pledged delegates. Perhaps she does it using superdelegates. Perhaps she manages to get Florida and Michigan counted. Perhaps she sues to invalidate her loss in the Texas caucuses. Perhaps John Edwards (with anywhere from 12 to 61 delegates pledged to him, depending on whose count you believe) wants very badly to be Vice President or Secretary of State. Perhaps Bill cuts some sort of deal in a smoke-filled room somewhere. Maybe it goes to the Supreme Court for resolution (you know, those nice people in black robes who gave you the George W. Bush presidency), and they decide in her favor. Most likely she employs a combination of all these gambits, and collectively they could possibly give her enough delegates for a narrow technical (and very Pyrrhic) victory.
If any of these scenarios play out, Obama should leave the Democratic Party and run as a third-party candidate. Simple as that.
It would be the morally proper thing to do, and it just might even be successful, especially in the longer term.
If this seems an improbable quest, remember that Obama's support is quite passionate - he's not just your standard-issue marginal political preference for, say, Joe Biden over Chris Dodd. Nor would this be some personal (and absurd) vanity project, like Ross Perot's. His supporters would be outraged at the stealing of the nomination from its rightful owner, and they're a motivated bunch. Black voters would feel particularly slighted, and would be likely to follow Obama elsewhere. That alone would be enough to finish off the already badly-damaged Clinton candidacy in the general election. Given this moral high ground, too, I don't think Obama would be perceived as the Ralph Nader who gave the election to McCain. Perhaps, because of access restrictions, he wouldn't even be able to get on the ballot in many places, except as a write-in.
In the end, I don't think it much matters. If he can't win in 2008, the country will be ripe for the taking after four years of John McSame. And Obama has shown us nothing this last year if not excellence in organizing skills. There's plenty of time by 2012 to give birth to a real progressive party that has been aching to calve off from the Democrats for three decades now. If the Clintons and the Liebermans of this world want to hang tight with their DLC party of Diet Pepsi Wall Street, let them. If they feel a burning compulsion to become the Whigs of the 21st century, I for one won't stand in the way.
The idea of a third party alternative has long been a dream of progressives in America. It has also too often been a fantasy and a distracting albatross. Particularly since the Bill Clinton era of centrist sell-out - but really going back to the Reagan period of Democratic cowardice, the McGovern campaign of entrenched Party power acting shamelessly toward their nominee, and certainly the Johnson debacle in Vietnam - progressives have been looking to ditch the shell of the former New Deal now doing business as the corroded (and corrosive) Democratic Party.
Unfortunately - really, very unfortunately - it's an almost impossible trick to pull off given the structure of the American political system, and I have joined lots of other smarter people counseling against the effort, suggesting an attempt at hijacking the Democratic Party instead. Not for nothing was the last new major party born in America 150 years ago. It's not an accident that for about three-fourths of the country's history it's been Republicans or Democrats. Period.
Oddly enough, however, this is probably the year when the country could come closest in a long time to seeing the birth of a genuine third party. Theoretically, at least - if the right sequence of events transpired. It's probably a long-shot, and not my personal preference for the short-term, but it is feasible; it's probably the only way to imagine overcoming the considerable institutional barriers to creating a third party in America, and doing so would be just the shot of adrenalin this decrepit old political system needs. Moreover, there are - believe it or not - still some folks out there who don't yet get the damage done by conservatism in America. Another four years of the same may be just the tonic to finally seal that deal forever.
So, let me see here. We'd have a destroyed Republican Party, a destroyed Democratic Party, and a new progressive, "Fired-Up!" party rising out of their ashes. We could do a lot worse than that. And we could thank Hillary Clinton for it all, if it happens.
Sometimes a silver-lining can turn into a whole pot of gold. David Michael Green is a professor of political science at Hofstra University in New York. He is delighted to receive readers' reactions to his articles (dmg@regressiveantidote.net), but regrets that time constraints do not always allow him to respond. More of his work can be found at his website, www.regressiveantidote.net.
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127 Comments so far
Show AllI'm with you, David. If Obama runs in the general election, he's go my vote, whether he runs as a Democrat or and Independent. If he's not in the race, I'll vote Nader.
Over the last month, I've gone from a "I'd much rather have Obama than Clinton, but I'd much rather have either of them to McCain" to a "Will never vote for Clinton".
She totally disgusts me, after how she campaigned in Ohio and Texas.
Clinton will win the election. The machines are set. This Obama drama is to keep our eyes off the continuing destruction of the country.
Bush is opening up our last wilderness to oil and lumber interests. The Real ID act is getting ready to start up. The Congress just caved in on the spying on Americans. The Patriot Act is still in effect.
And we're spending all this time squabbling about an election that's already been decided by our shadowy overlords.
If you want to join a third party, join the one that's been struggling to change America for the better for decades - the Green Party. We could use more people and more energy.
Or you could just follow the media hype and continue to swoon over Obama.
Your choice.
Green wrote about Clinton theoretically stealing the Dem nomination and Obama running as an independent: "Given this moral high ground, too, I don't think Obama would be perceived as the Ralph Nader who gave the election to McCain."
Not a more *moral* high ground, just a much more publicized one. The true moral high ground belongs to the candidates who have consistently run on real progressive principles.
sign me up
i, too, am solidly in the 'will never vote for clinton' mind. so it will be obama, nader, another green party candidate, or stay home.
I have always been skeptical about the advantages of having a third party. I have always seen that move as a way of splitting the democratic ticket. But that was when the republicans were the only only enemy to democracy. Now they are simply public enemy #1, with the democratic party running a close second.
Obama has won all of his votes the hard way, from people who have mnade it their business to know him and who decidedly want his leadership; contrary to Clinton's followers who vote for her out of ignorance of her true nature, name recognition (quasi-ignorance)or political favors she might bestow (feminazis included here). If anyone can unite this country, in any party, it is him. And with his following, he can do it just as easily from a third party. If he doesn't win the democratic nomination, he should run as an independent. If he won't, I for one will write him in.
A lot can happen in the remaining nine months of this administration..just look at how much happened in the first nine months...I agree with Mr. greenerthanthou..I believe the whole thing has been rigged from the start including excluding those with progressive ideas. Everyone even close in the running are now dedicated to maintainint the status quo. Whether it is the first women, or first black or first Oldest Man it won't make a bit of difference. It appears that only those interested in lining their pockets are the only ones we keep electing. So...Go Green!
I still don't see what people like about Obama. He goes around chanting 'hope' and 'change' in rythyms he stole from MLK. So he sounds good. But he's either avoiding any specifics at all, or at other times he's promising everything to everyone. Neither one tells you what he'd do as president. And I feel like the whole damn thing is just one big con game.
Neither one has in anyway broken with the leadership of the Dem party while in the Senate. So, what the Dems have done, or haven't done is a good guide to what they'll do as President. Ie, anything the corporations want is golden and they'll work hard to give it to them. Anything the people want is just oh so hard and people have to be realistic and realize they can't get it.
I'm not voting for either one of these two in the general election. The Democrats in general make me sick.
Great article, but I can't see Obama running as an independent. I just don't think he has it in him to leave the Dem party and go independent.
More and more, I'm hearing or reading one of two reactions if Clinton's the nominee: "If Clinton's the nominee, I'll vote for McCain" (for those who lean right). Or: "If Clinton's the nominee, I'll vote Green, Nader, or stay home" (for those who lean left). I'm in the latter camp. Under no circumstances will I vote for that &#@f%! Clinton. But McCain will be our next President if Clinton's the nominee, because too many people hate Clinton (including me).
In the three decades I've been voting, my candidate has never won. Why should this time be any different? I vote because people fought and died for the right to vote, but really, the "good" candidates never make it through the cesspool that is American politics to emerge a victor. It's precisely because they ARE good that they can't win. They're either too ethical and unwilling to be vicious, calculating, criminal, etc. (like Rove, Billary), or they end up dead.
Illusions may be the hardest things to lose. But there we are. From his support for Israel to his big corporate backers, from his waffling on the Iraq war to his mouthing of support for Dodd's fight against telecoms immunity from the safe distance of the campaign trail, Obama is the same artificially "progressive" candidate as his opponent.
I recommend supporting the best candidate for the job, let the chips fall where they may; but Mr Green shies away from a principled stance in favor of a real progressive, dreaming instead of a more popular, artificial condidate whose progressivism is as genuine as hair gel.
We are urged to join this wish-fantasy about a popular politician taking the election away from Clinton, rather than a genuine progressive doing it.
This is self-defeating from two points of view. If looked at from the pragmatic point of view, the scenario of the Democrat losing to the Republican because Obama runs a third-party candidacy is indistinguishable from the Democrat losing because of a Nader candidacy.
Even worse, from the progressive point of view, it is a defeat to tie our future to a personalism, a heroism of the individual; especially when the individual in question has solely rhetorical progressive credentials.
I happen to believe that Obama will win the nomination. I plan to vote for a progressive for president, not him.
The way to create a viable third party is to organize in the states which allow Citizen Ballot Initiatives.
Create State level constitutional amendments requiring Equality of Ballot Access for ALL Candidates, regardless of party.
Currently, each party, in each state, has a different set of rules and requirements for becoming a candidate. The only thing all states have in common is laws which disenfranchise Third Parties.
Constitution level laws which would require all candidates to receive Equal Access to the ballot is the way to go.
Of course, both Democrats & Republicans would fight Tooth & Nail to prevent it. After all, they've got things nicely rigged.
Turn their own words against them. It's time for a Change.
McCain could virtually take her 3:00 a.m. ad, pull her out and drop himself in, and use it against her. And he will.
**exactly. And it was Mark penn who emailed the media to say if they lost on Tuesday it wasnt his fault--no one was running the campaign.
So they will do anything to win and dont care what bridges they burn.
We don't need a third party, we need a second party, one that is more pro-labor than business and promotes federal bureaucratic and regulatory solutions to poverty, healthcare and unemployment. I'm prepared to vote for Obama even though he'd likely be a corporate sell-out in the White House but I won't vote for the proven sell-out. What are those blue collar voters thinking? If they really blame NAFTA for their troubles, why would they vote for Mrs. NAFTA? Perhaps they're playing it safe going with the established brand name, as Mr. Green suggests. They want Kerry in skirts!
Clinton IS a monster!
CoMarc...I agree with your assessment of both Obama and the Democrats. But, assuming that Hillary manages to slither her way to the nomination (possible) and Obama runs as an Independent (doubtful, I know) wouldn't that be a Good Thing?
I mean that in tactical terms of breaking the stragle-hold of the two-party duopoly and creating space on the left (as well as the right) for additional parties. I think that would be a step in the right direction.
The worst thing is that Clinton is proving that negative advertising works within our current monopoly media structure.
It certainly may be time for the birth of a Progessive Party, but it's not very likely Obama would be at the head of it. Start with his position on health care--not universal, not single payer. He supports nuclear power and has taken oil lobby money (see oilwatchdog.com). So maybe Hillary is indeed "the devil we know." I haven't been taken in by Obama's empty rhetoric. He's preferable to McCain, and I will say the same about Hillary. They are the flip sides of the same coin. It just boils down to whether you want a black man or a white woman for President (OpraBama or Billary, both are 2-fers!).
anne faith - I empathize. I did vote for Bill Clinton. When he won I realized I had never had the winner experience. When he immediately folded (to wall street), and don't ask don't tell, no health care (that time really was Hilary's best hairdo though), I crawled back into my familar place of seeing the game (follow the money game) continue. This time around I realize that I may not live to see any restoration of anything that has been destroyed in my life (I am 59 today). So my mantra for 2008 is 'it's the supreme court stupid'. I will settle for restoration of habeus corpus if a non Republican can change the court. Unfortunately we have Mark Penn, and a woman who I feel betrayed by, a woman who will destroy this year's chances for better Democrats.
Happy birthday, sansf. Hope it's a good one!
It would be nice if all those impassioned anti-Hillary, Obama people peeled off and voted for Nader or the Greens. Even a 5% vote can launch a combined progressive party for 2012. This split will likely encourage the conservative religious right split off from the Republican party too.
"Only Democrats could lose the White House in 2008."
I couldn't agree more. If the Dems go Clinton, the country's going to go McCain. And if Obama makes it, Clinton will have left him wounded enough ...for McCain to beat him.
If this happens, I'm going to seriously consider becoming a Republican in order to change that party from the inside.
Mr. Green sez: "... there are - believe it or not - still some folks out there who don't yet get the damage done by conservatism in America. Another four years of the same may be just the tonic to finally seal that deal forever."
Good article otherwise, but — no.
It's gonna have to get a lot worse than four years of "the same" to sway anybody who doesn't see it by now. Then again, it certainly will get worse.
Yes, she is a monster. If she wins the nomination I will not vote for her. Now that "Monster Hillary" is using Obama as one of her campaign promises. She knows she can't win his followers over, so she is plagiarising, in effect, using his presence as VP to win their votes! What kind of a sick, egotistical bitch would do this?
Look at this:
Clinton raises possibility of ticket with Obama again
SARA KUGLER
Associated Press
March 7, 2008 at 1:17 PM EST
HATTIESBURG, Miss. — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on Friday again raised the possibility that she might run with rival Barack Obama on the same Democratic presidential ticket.
Speaking to voters in Mississippi, where Mr. Obama is expected to do well in next week's primary, Ms. Clinton said, "I've had people say, 'Well I wish I could vote for both of you. Well, that might be possible some day. But first I need your vote on Tuesday."
It is the second time this week that she has hinted at a joint ticket with the Illinois senator; he has not ruled it out but says it is premature to be having those discussions.
I'd like to borrow a campaign slogan from Macy Gray: "Get back bitch, I ain't giving you shit!" I going out and making a bumper sticker right now. Who else wants one?
We don't need a third party. What we need is a multi-party democratic political system that offers voters more voices and choices, not the two-party corporate duopoly that we have now. We already have a third party (third-largest that is): The Green Party (www.gp.org), which I would guess represents the true political views of most of the regular readers of Common Dreams if they would bother to do the research. We also have a fourth party, the Libertarian Party, which most Ron Paul supporters would support, if they dared to think out of the two-party box.
In the United States we have the following political parties, which legitimately represent the views of American citizens, but are denied equal access to the political process:
• American Heritage Party
• American Independent Party
• American Party
• American Patriot Party
• American Reform Party
• Communist Party USA
• Constitution Party
• Democratic Socialists of America
• Family Values Party
• Freedom Socialist Party
• Grassroots Party
• Green Party
• Independent American Party
• Labor Party
• Libertarian Party
• Light Party
• Natural Law Party
• New Party
• New Union Party
• Peace and Freedom Party
• Prohibition Party and Prohibition Party New Web Site
• Reform Party
• Socialist Equality Party
• Socialist Labor Party
• Socialist Party USA
• Socialist Workers Party
• Southern Independence Party
• United States Pacifist Party
• Workers World Party
Would American consumers be satisfied if their only choice in soft drinks was between Pepsi and Coke? NO. But in politics most people seem to be content with a similarly restricted choice. We need a multi-party democratic system in this country and we need it NOW. No, make that YESTERDAY.
okay, you don't like hillary and you don't like obama so you're going for nader and john mccain will be our president. And we wonder how democrats (the only other game in town) lose the elections every time. Mac daddy has guns, Jesus and the grudgingly given love of big, big money on his side. Democrats have a couple of candidates who generally think that people should be able to run their own country, at least, have some say on the big issues. I've lived through this horror story called the bush administration for almost eight years now and nothing, Nothing I could have done would have changed the minds of the "people" in charge. At least with a Democrat we are not completely cut off from being American citizens. I'll take that for now. I also like the feeling that the democrats might provide less murder for the general world population. Sure, HIllary is hawkish at times, but she isn't invested in murder like the "conservatives" whose every sip of wine is by now a sacramental rite akin to those taken by vampires. No, by this time I will take the "lesser of two evils." Just get me away from these Republicans. I can't take that sort of torture anymore.
Hillary Clinton is trying to push the democratic party so far to the right she can feel comfortable with it. When the Clintons were under attack from the right wingers every democrat rallied to their defense but now we must be honest enough to say that they were right all along about these unethical people. We have seen this from the moment she lost Iowa and the emails about Obama being a Muslim started being sent out from her staff. This was followed by race baiting "he could have been selling drugs" from one of her thugs in New Hampshire. Then we had the crying routine followed by more race baiting even to go as far as darkening his skin in an ad. Then Ohio where they deliberately played the race card with so much success that 20 percent of people voting for her said they would never vote for a black man. Then finally teaming up with Rush Limbaugh to win Texas. Can anyone tell me what the hell difference there is between Hillary Clinton and the worst scum of the republican party?
OK. It's been a couple of days now and I've grown up. I still might vote for Kucinich.
America already has the perfect female candidate - Cynthia McKinney. Watch the video, then pass it on to all of your friends. She is the only female Presidential candidate we should be working for!
Why on earth is this Harvard-educated protege of Zbigniew Brzezinski being touted as a progressive?
The scenario of Clinton wrangling the nomination and Obama being on the skids is quite feasible. Remember Jesse Jackson's run in 1988? He had far more people vote for him than Dukakis and when he proposed that he therefore ought to be the VP candidate, he got snubbed in favor Lloyd Benson, who just like Daddy Bush (Dukakis' opponent) was another white millionaire from Texas.
Even if Obama now has Jesse working for his campaign, and even if he's started sounding more like MLK in his speeches (intentionally? sure would seem so), Obama has and always will be an inside player. He wouldn't have gotten as far as he has if he wasn't. Obama start a third party? Don't hold your breath.
But I wonder, if Obama does get snubbed, and then duly back Hilary, and doesn't even get the VP slot... Would pissed off black voters think about shifting their vote for McKinney? After all, McKinney has personal roots in the civil rights movement and a demonstrated track record of commitment to racial justice.
Thank you, bildad, for pointing out our other political parties.
And Happy Birthday, sansf.
You posters that keep whining about the election being the end of the world so vote for a Green, Nader or another loser are wasting your time.
The Monster is going to team up with the Muslim and win the election for the Democrats.
Isn't this just a bit sick? We sit here arguing over 2 people who both clearly do not represent a true breaking away from the last 8 years like it's the most important decision any of us will make in our lifetime. We get angry and mean about it, we say we'll take action if it happens. But, meanwhile back at the farm, our Country is literally disinegrating from under our feet. The one truly useful thing Mr. Green does above is list several of the hundreds of symptoms of this disinegration. Read his list of issues again: "An extremely unpopular war based on lies. A massive national debt. A housing crisis. An environmental crisis. Gas at well over three bucks a gallon. Oil over $100 a barrel." Now try to add as many other huge issues/problems as you can, I'll start: a broken and expensive healthcare system, a massive out of control and expensive military industrial complex (which is a different problem from the Iraq war), $350 billion plus spent on foreign oil each year, global warming, peak oil, taxation without representation, unfair taxation, illegal immigration, a failing public school system (in Ca where I live anyway). On and on the list goes. SO WHEN EXACTLY DOES THE MIDDLE CLASS RADICALIZE? After we've all lost our jobs, homes and savings? Or do we act real soon while we collectively still have assests which with to aid us in fighting back against the Oligarchy? LIBERTY IS NOT FREE AND VOTING FOR MEMEBERS OF THE RULING CLASS WILL NOT SAVE IT SO WHAT PRICE WILL YOU PAY TO SAVE IT, WHAT WILL YOU RISK? WHO WILL LEAD THE REVOLUTION? ANYONE, ANYONE...BUELLER, BUELLER...(don't respond to this post with any "that's why I'm voting for Nader" crap either).
People said Nader was *egotistical.* So what would you call a person who thinks she can win the Democratic nomination without either the popular vote or the majority of delegates?
the first and last question in all of this must be, "what is the most likely scenario for ending the occupation of Iraq?" we must not lose sight of this out of resentment towards the Shill's tactics. remember that McCain has virtually campaigned on bombing Iran.
It is amazing to think that at one point the Democrats once stood for something. There was a time when there were meaningful differences between the "2" parties". Now they stand for nothing. The only selling-point for the Democrats is that they are not Republicans. They are an empty shell of a political party, the "not-Republican" party, and essentially "Republican-lite" if they have any ideology at all. The Democrats can only win by default, not by having some specific "ideas" or platforms that win people over. So basically the Republicans have to destroy themselves in order for the Democrats to stand a chance at getting into office, rather than win on their own merits.
The idea of a McCain presidency is terrifying, but so is a Hillary presidency; an Obama presidency doesn't seem a whole lot better. His campaign lacks specifics and seems similar to Clinton's in message although he mentions "change" a lot more. I think I'll vote Green(not the author of the article).
Wow, now this guy is one serious flack. Or is he just a hack? I'd combine the two for the most accurate descriptino.
Every four years the sad ass flacks come out and try to scare people into remaining Democrats, and it works. The idea that Obama is any more that a contestant for American Idol is an outrageous fraud perpetuated by unctuous hacks like this fellow.
'The Clintons will do anything - and I mean anything - to get the presidency.'
Yes, they are desperate. Fellow CD fans, suspend your disbelief for one moment and consider the seemingly impossible--that the U.S. government has thought reading technology, and has since 1994.
What would it do to the Clinton's reputations if it was revealed that Bill Clinton signed the original order allowing the covert use of thought reading technology on average Americans?
That is why the Clinton's are desperate to regain the White House to keep this secret. (That's probably why Bill is so cozy with Bush Sr.)
The Clinton's second hope, if Hillary loses the nominination, is that the Bush clone, bomb-Iran McCain wins the Presidency. Anybody but Barack.
So her scorched earth demolition of her opponent in the primary serves both purposes.
Ok, thank any who tried to suspend their disbelief, and all for putting up with me when I write about this.
My greatest fear is not that anyone is capable of fixing Bush's mess. Either party will look bad four years from now for not being able to.
My greatest fear is what McCain may do to the Supreme Court. That's the kind of legacy that lingers...
To my2sense:
Hillary mentioning Barack as a running mate is a tactic she uses so she can say to win Superdelegates that she is the candidate who was willing to unify the party and Barack was the divider. She wants to counter the critisim of her very negative campaign.
Anne Faith; I am another one who since 1968 has never voted for a winner. I sometimes hope my
record doesn't get broken. It has always been somewhat nice to always be able to say "Don't blame
me, I didn't vote for him".
As an ex-pat brit, and Liberal before they were Liberal Democrats, I would be very worried about a quick move to a third party. Three party systems are the best way for those in power to divide and rule. Thatcher et al managed to stay in power and do so much damage because of the three party system in the UK. That's not to say a grass roots party cannot emerge, Labour did so in the early years of the 20 C.
I would become an American and vote if there was a party worth supporting, but alas alack.
pax anyway
Kathy--
I understand and agree.
But just in case anyone who calls the shots is watching--I am one democrat who will not vote if my only choices are Hillary with Barack or Hillary without Barack. There was a time, about two months ago, when I was torn between them. But no more. I have seen her evilness.
I wonder how many other people feel the same way? And if we all abstain from voting for that "dream ticket," how unifying will
that be?
Fuck the Dimocraps. Why? Because they already said repeatedly "Fuck You" to me and the people who gave them the big anti-Bush mandate. They're so full of shit and ego that they can't tell themselves what's true anymore. Kucinich was as good as it's going to get. They assassinated him---so let them play their games and lose yet again. I am not going to vote for anybody whose idea of America is Dubuque, Iowa. Let the empire fall as it pleases.
We all know that a candidate with truly progressive positions will be, in this day and age, knee-capped by the corporate media and can never make it even to first base. So it would seem that the only progressive candidate who could possibly make it to home plate would be one who pretends to be at least somewhat status quo. Is Obama that person? We cannot know unless he makes it there. However, any clever and highly intelligent progressive who seriously wants to win would have campaigned very similarly to the way Obama has campaigned. Progressives really have nothing else going on right now so I do not see what it would hurt to give him the benefit of the doubt, particularly since he did choose to be a community organizer and work for the public good. That should be worth something.
If the dems are stupid enough to run Clinton, an Obama/Nader or Obama/Kucinich ticket would be fun to watch and an excellent life insurance policy for BHO. Clinton at Health, Edwards at Justice, Richardson at Energy, Ron Paul at Defense.
And all in the same dream.
I don't see Joe Lieberman's protege starting a progressive third (sic) party. I also don't much care which DLC member gets the nomination for the Dems.
We already have Green and Socialist parties for those who want actual progressive choices.
I guess I should qualify my statement that the good candidates never win. Although Dennis Kucinich dropped out of the presidential race, he did win his congressional primary. (Yay, Dennis!) Although I didn't get to vote for him for Congress (I don't live in Ohio), I did vote for him for President (in Florida) and sent money to his campaigns. I'll count that as a win. And boy, did it feel good.
The people who don't understand what's at stake in this election either don't want to understand, don't care, or are deep in denial. Rather than second guess strategy, or voting for someone against another, just vote directly what you stand for and let the results fall where they may. And don't waste your energy on those who wish to remain 'ignorant.' They'll probably only growl at you anyway.
That being said, having Obama running as an independent with, say, Edwards would make for a most interesting election. Even if they received only a third of the vote, that would make a repug 'winner' most nervous and serve to break the 'third party barrier' in this country. "I mean, hey, if they can do it, so can I!" Four years later we could have a true 'progressive' in office.
Add two more votes here for Obama... or Nader if Clinton is running. We can't vote for Clinton. She gets worse the more you look at her. I'd rather see John McCain win than Clinton trash the reputation of Democrats by taking the presidency and doing nothing but triangulating and posturing and pretending she's experienced.
"If ..., Obama should leave the Democratic Party and run as a third-party candidate"
AGREED. Hillary is a false flag Dem. She - and her DLC friends - would/will make an effective contribution to the McCain camp. We need more Democratic leaders to show some courage (before the convention), and to endorse Obama.
While the conclusions reached here are probably valid, I think a point has been missed. We do not need a "third" political party; we need NO political
parties. We need new forms of organization which will act directly to create
direct democracy. Face it: whoever is elected will have to be opposed on some level. Let's shift our energies to organizing and strategy that offers
some hope of working.
This is not cynicism, folks, this is a call to abandon failed strategies.