They lose the most soldiers percapita, and still bush won't go to any of the funerals??? Eventually bush will die, may I suggest that a portapotty is installed instead of a gravestone.

I didn't know it was the only state He hasn't visited. That's sure telling...guess He keeps his ear to the ground on the mood in Vermont. If only He would listen to the other voices in America that are clamoring for relief from His ill begotten policies...

On another note, I hope that Barack keeps hammering away on Hillary's vote to permit the invasion of Iraq...a country that never did anything anyone can name to threathen US. That issue alone has driven our country to the brink... it is a colossal disaster for everyone save those who have made $$$$$$ on its implementation, execution.

They will be leaving the country they so much love soon anyway.

The rumor that Bush may have bought hundreds of acres in Argentina is prolly true.

That is where all the German Nazi war criminals hide out isn't it?

More likely Paraguay than Argentina !

Last time I looked, Argentina still allowed criminals to be extradited, Paraguay does not.

Not that Bush, Cheney, or any of the others need to worry about extradition. The Democrats inaction is tacit approval of their crimes.

As I understand it, there is a town in Vermont that says it will arrest Bush and Cheney if they ever show up there.

California, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York and other large states will be much more important come the general election in November.

A lot of red state caucuses give the wrong impression. A caucus is a meeting of the avid. It is not a reflection of the people's will.

If it is an open primary, anyone can vote for anyone. This is not an indication of what the people registered with that party truly want.

Why did Rhode Island vote so heavily for Clinton? It's like that state and Vermont aren't in the same part of the country.

Vermonters are the last of a dying breed... people who understand and appreciate REAL democracy and the value of the U.S. Constitution.

Over the generations, Vermonters have given more than their share of blood to the defense of this nation, as they have done in recent years for far less clear reasons in the Middle East.

Bush, Cheney and their cheerleaders in the "news" media have sold them a "lemon" and Vermonters again are among the first to recognize it and take action by indicting the criminals.

In my humble opinion, they should add a list of co-conspiritors to their indictments... names like Limbaugh, Coulter, O'Reilly, Scarborough, Hannity, Kristol, Krauthammer, Robertson and Podhoretz to name just a few.

Bush could not have done so much damage without their support.

This is true. In New Hampshire Obama and Clinton were neck and neck in districts using paper ballots. In districts using electronic machines Clinton was 3 to 1 at least! Corruption!

And in Ohio just two days ago there were widespread reports that hundreds of voters at various places were turned away because the polling place RAN OUT OF BALLOTS! How hard is it to print a piece of paper with some people's names on it? Cmon!

Furthermore

I am continually dismayed by Senator Clinton's remarks that Obama is all talk while she touts herself as "a fighter." We've had "a fighter" in the White House for 7 years named George Bush and we don't need "a fighter" anymore. Obama should spin Clinton's words like she spins his messages. He should say George Bush is a fighter too. And what we need is a listener. Which Obama says he is. A listener. Thank You.

We have to realize that the electoral process is not the only form of democracy. We need to raise our voices and speak louder than the monopoly media so our democracy is not defined by what topics are the most profitable. (war, missing beauty queens, paris hilton, etc...)

#
skippyagogo41 March 6th, 2008 12:17 pm

"They lose the most soldiers percapita, and still bush won't go to any of the funerals??? Eventually bush will die, may I suggest that a portapotty is installed instead of a gravestone."

You are too kind. An open cesspool would be more appropriate.

Lobo Gris

Vermont also differs from Ohio and Texas in being right beside the Canadian border and in getting Canadian TV channels. While Ohio focused more on the two leaks concerning Obama and NAFTA, my bet is that Vermont was focusing more on the source of those leaks.

Those in Ohio have no reason to doubt information which comes from the PMO (Prime Minister's Office) - can we say the same about the people of Vermont?

VAUDREE -- Wow, that is fascinating. I never thought of that. It makes sense that Vermonters are better informed because they get the Canadian channels. Over 10 years ago, I met some Canadian women on-line. I was amazed at how smart, intelligent, and well-informed they were. It was a chat site, and the Canadian women knew a wealth of facts about the US and it's international affairs that the American women didn't have a clue about (and, sickenly) didn't seem to care about.

SQUEEZE ME... whilst I let out a REBEL YELL in response to the mental imagery conjured up of the fine Brattleboro Constabulatory (likely all 3 of them) going up against Furher Bush's Secret Service(SS) aka Men In Black contingent.

Militantliberal-
Hitlery wins RI -read Newport/Providence RI vs
Obama wins VT -read Bumbblephuk VT

The NAFTA-gate ordeal has been explained in the Canadian Press. Too bad we can't get that in our media. It turns out it was Clinton's camp that was responsible. see this:
1. Report: NAFTA-Gate Leaker Said Hillary's People Were Reassuring Canada, Too
By Eric Kleefeld - March 5, 2008, 11:33PM
The NAFTA-Gate controversy has taken another turn, one that could potentially boomerang back on Hillary Clinton after initially damaging Barack Obama.
The Canadian Press — Canada's domestic equivalent of the AP — is reporting that the original source of the leak was Ian Brodie, chief of staff to Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper. And as it turns out, Brodie's original conversation with reporters focused much more on Hillary as the candidate whose people were reassuring Canada that the anti-trade rhetoric was all just campaign talk.
"He said someone from Clinton's campaign is telling the Embassy to take it with a grain of salt," said one participant in the conversation. The source added, "someone called us and told us not to worry."
Hillary's people were able to use NAFTA-Gate very effectively in questioning Obama's honesty in the Ohio and Texas campaigns, ultimately pulling off some decent wins. But if this thing doesn't die down, and the focus turns from Obama over to Hillary, they could very well see the story come back to bite them.
Link: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03
From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.2008

I wish that all the candidates would give up images of violence in their speeches. Hillary claims to be a "fighter" who will "fight" for me. I'm so turned off by all the war/sports analogies of win/lose, victory/defeat. I want a grown-up adult who will WORK for me and with me!

I wish to suggest that the Vermont electoral process encourages democracy by frustrating efforts of organizations like the Democratic Leadership Council(a true misnomer) from stacking the deck.This anti democratic front is todays version of the cigar filled room. It rules in states like Ohio and Texas. Oh does it fear populist candidates like Nader, Kucinich, and Obama. Grass root democracy is a threat to its power. For seasoned politicians, the real issue is power, not policy and people.

Vermont is just way cool. My favorite state. one could even live there.

"skippyagogo41" (sorry, typo)

In support of all those who shout here in vain against the Clinton scourge, against the Clinton camp who simply wants more of the same "failed policies of the past", in support who those who want change at any price because it can't be worse than these past eight years, nothing can, I submit a letter requested by the Obama's campaign director. It is an open letter to the super delegates. We all know that the entrenched congress is opposed to Obama and the will of America. We know the bought and paid media is nothing more than an establishment, corrupt, rubber stamp for government policies and afraid of their own shadows. They reflect this gutless country so afraid they might lose their next new car they would defeat any change agent more of the same stupidity regardless of the cost. They are afraid of change, which is necessary for global survival. I am opposed to the infrastructure of the Green party since the level of anarchy dictates against any real positive direction. Or for that matter a run by Nader, not enough charisma to attract sufficient voters, not that his message lacks importance. Hillary followed directly in the footsteps of Karl rove and George Bush and the republicrat from Connecticut, Lieberman her good friend.

Change is the only hope for this country and the world!

Dear Mr. David Plouffe,

Thank you for your request, although by e-mail. I am a visual artist, Filmmaker and global communicator. I have recently returned from Africa and work on both sides of the Atlantic in Europe. I know from my work that people for the first time in a long time are hoping for a change in America. Europeans believe that Barak Obama offers the possibility that America will once again join the global community. His stated environmental objectives create enthusiasm in those in other parts of the world.

There are some who believe that the democratic will of the people should be overturned by the presumption of power as in the super-delegate issue of the Democratic Party. This raises the specter of large-scale defections toward the Republican agenda by the youth vote, should the Democratic Party not align itself with the peoples democratic and non-militant direction. Should this occur it would affect world security and the issue of climate change directly. These issues are dependent upon radical solutions, which include global economic changes. Defection of democrats and particularly the young people-who hope for change and believe that change is necessary could possibly tilt the election toward the Republicans should opt out. They would refuse to turn out for the Clinton camp.

Many fear that Obama may lose the election as a result of the strange electoral system and candidate approval mechanisms, felt to be undemocratic. This reflects the basic problem of what many think is a so-called Democracy in America where a win in the popular vote does not guarantee the change in direction of the country.

The Electoral College can make a change as we saw in the 2004 election which allowed Bush to take office; this renders the popular vote, void. The Democratic Super-delegate issue is a reflection of the absurd non-democratic American condition of the Electoral College. Should Barak Obama win the popular vote from America's Democratic caucuses, delegates and committed states prior to the convention I do not believe that he should accept second place as vice president, which seems to be the mood of the media controlled races and spin jockeys. I believe that he should maintain himself as the democratically designated elected leader of the Democratic Party. Contrary to that hack journalist, Blitzer and his 'dream Team".

Obama forced to that position form a third party and run against both Hillary Clinton and John McCain. This would be true democracy in action but we all know this is a fantasy. People everywhere both in this country and abroad want change in the USA. Should that occur Obama needs a ready made party and given his environmental agenda the Green Party and others might supply the reasoning. However they are in such disarray this is probably an unlikely thought. His rhetoric suggests, that we must move away from the "failed policies of the past" if we are to save this world for future generations.

Obama has stated he has run because the time is now not in the future. The changes needed, are as he puts it, "right now", not in the future and the perils of environmental collapse are approaching so quickly that we do not have the luxury of another eight years of "business as usual" which would be the Clinton way, before he could claim the office of president. Clinton knows that she can not win against McCain without Obama. To defeat Clinton and the return to the failed bush methodology she amply displayed to win Ohio a radical shift in Campaign policy is necessary.

He is a populist candidate that has offered hope! He should continue that platform with the courage to take the steps necessary if the standard-bearer position is denied to him to effect party and changes in American direction. He should take this radical shift and direction, if necessary! By doing so he would serve notice to the Democratic Party that democracy is not lost in America should the first place be denied. The party is being prepared for Clinton with the discussion now on the table for Michigan and Florida to vote once again. We all lose and the possibility of change and it goes down with her selection.

If he takes half the country with him to a third party we all have a chance. He believes that the failed policies of the past exist within the entrenched two party systems in congress represented by the Super delegates. The only way of preventing another move to those failed policies is not to allow Hillary Clinton to win by forcing Barak Obama to take second place. But does Barak Obam have that amount of courage to suggest this option, I doubt it, though I support the man. This would be the last hand to play and he should be discussing this in the back rooms of the party as Hillary is discussing, the two other states she covets

This public denial by him of allowing super-delegates to determine the election would be a way of circumventing the second place the congress and CNN want him to accept. It would force the super delegates to reflect the will of the people. I heard one of the super-delegates speaking from Georgia. He was black and under examination by the press, it was clear that the position of many "super delegates" would be to overturn the national-will, regardless of Barak Obama taking the popular vote or the majority of delegates. "The failed policies of the past" has put the youth of the USA and the World in the present circumstances of possibly destroying their future and their life.

In the final analysis the USA did not rise to the level of intelligence and courage necessary by electing George Bush to office for two terms and I doubt that it will by choosing Barak Obama to lead. The media and the democratic establishment suggests the "dream team" scenario by supporting the status quo and have the temerity to think it can choose the way the people's choice will be suborned and thus nullifying the very democracy they espouse. The height of cynical belief. This congress has not dealt with Bush and Cheney for lying to the American people and Wolf Blitzer on CNN is the scourge of presumption and simply a clone of the establishment.

These policies, if continued will lead to chaos and the disaffection of the youth and could, by default, elect John McCain and with him a continuation of war for another hundred years. This is a moot point since thirty years remain before environmental disaster takes hold because that is the time we have left to make the radical shift in global politics, environmental direction and economics.

This is an open response from a European blogger. Included below:

Aggie67 February 16th, 2008 2:20 am 
I hope you Americans realize that we, in the rest of the world, are following these primary elections of yours with the greatest of interest. Whatever you do affects us so much. The election of George W Bush seemed to have been such a corruption of the democracy you hold dear, please don't let it happen again by your incessant bickering amongst yourselves. The world needs you to get back to REAL DEMOCRACY, so that we can all live a safer life. What we can't understand is why you don't seem to have "one man, one vote" It all seems to be based on which candidate has the most money, delegates and very strong lobbyists. Definitely not one, man one vote and the winner of the popular vote don't seem to win the election. Weird definition of democracy. 


WHAT changes? Changes that the magnetic orator professes? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't be mesmerized by emotioalism: Look at his voting record!!!

Ahhh, the Vermont Myth goes on. I moved to Vermont from New Jersey 23 years ago. The corruption in Vermont makes Jersey politicians seem like a choir boys. Check out Joshua Frank's articles on the State AG.

It is great that 2 towns just voted to arrest Bush/Cheyney but that does not compensate for the fact that 99% of the voters here support the dem/repubs. Both Parties are war Parties. The repubs love to fight wars. The dems love to fund wars. Vermont is no better, and not much worse than anyplace else - though the mountains are nice to look at.

If the election comes down to Clinton or McCain – I will vote for McCain. Though both he and Hillary are pieces of shit, at least McCain admits that he is a Republican.

"Vermont has the highest per capita death rate among U.S. service members."

Since when should this claim be a measure of intelligence or morality ? It's brain-washed patriotism . Had Vermont been at the top of the list for the most conscientious- objectors or bald-faced deserters then that would be worthy of praise . The occupation will be over when soldiers desert and not until , no matter how many towns and states vie for the dubious honour of "losing" the highest percentage of its citizens as dead service members.

I understand there is a movement in Vermont to form the second republic of Vermont and cecede from that imperfect union. I think they are on the right track. Cleanse the stables and start off afresh, be masters in their own house. That is a new idea!

I agree with whomever above said they are sick of fighting and do not need anyone to fight for us we need to talk and listen to one another.

Seaweed: Heh, good point. I'd think about doing the same, but only if McCain picks Tim Pawlenty as his running mate because I want that bastard the hell out of my state. He'd be able to inflict less damage as veep.

MN bridges falling down, falling down, falling down
MN bridges falling down, #@*! you, Pawlenty!

Nah, I'd rather vote for Obama, even though he's a will-o'-the-wisp. At least he's not quite as hawkish as the other two war-mongering gets. Yeah, I know, that's a bit like saying he's not as anti-semitic as Julius Streicher...

Still, Clinton and McCain are both worse than Obama on almost every issue so I hope he gets the nomination.

Someone needed to answer Clinton's assertion of mandate on the heels of the Ohio primary. Ms Goodman did it.

Where were you?

Run away with me, Amy.

Seaweed: you would vote for McCain over Hillary, I just saw on the news that Hillary would vote
for McCain over Obama. She calls herself a Democrat?

I didn't hear that one, but (if true) the bigger question is why the Democratic Party is so big that it calls Hillary a Democrat.

Of course it also called Lie-bermann a Democrat -- Ronald Reagan was once a Democrat. With a tent that big, god help anyone who votes for that party.

Do you suppose Bush would recognize the secession of Vermont and and their independence from the fascist nation of America with the same spirit of support he has bestowed on Kosovo?

Ah, hypocrisy! Now that's a true American virtue.

Way to go Amy!

Over a million Iraqi civilians killed by U.S. forces in an unconstitutional War of Agression, a Crime Against Peace, a Crime Against Humanity, a violation of the Nuremberg Principles, Judgement, and Charter, the Geneva Conventions, and the United Nations Charter!

It is time to hold the war criminals accountable for their crimes!

Peple in positions of responsibility need to be held responsible!

Anger? Frustration? I don't get it. If you don't like what the Imperial Chimp is up to, then shed the remainder of the exchange/association you've been doing with him, such as buying his gasoline. Shed it, then you'll be blissfully detached from the machine and no longer angry, frustrated. The author didn't explain why Vermonters would send themselves off to fight the Imperial Chimp's wars. That's very puzzling. Why would they fight in wars that they didn't approve? Vermonters are the most detached from the machine of any state in the union so there should be minimum anger and frustration there. Too bad they found some crazy reason to join the military. It must be the propaganda oozing in through their TVs. Hey Vermont! Turn off your damned TVs!!

Obams is "ON THE COVER OF THE ROLLING STONE!" Next issue!!!
Looks damn good, too! And Michelle is HOT!!
Let's elect him for all the right reasons, please vote, you guys!!

"I support the fact that these communities were able to do that. That's Town Meeting in Vermont. Anything can happen. Would I have voted for it? Probably not.

Get this, when you ask a Democrat would you have voted the same way as your constituents you get an answer that doesn't surprise.

"Probably Not"

Why would I vote for a Democrat? Can any one please tell what the Democrats have done the last 8 years that should cause me to vote for them?

What have they done and what is it you think they are going to do? Don't list reasons to not vote for Republicans. List reasons to vote for the Dims.

Truthseeker58 (with a hat tip to Vaudree), the Canadians I've met know a lot more about US politics, and the world, and history, than the average American. We've have not been well-served by our national media, currently owned by six large corporations, down from about 80 when Reagan took office.

There is a reason the Reich Wing Attack Machine belittles Vermont as "The People's Republic" -- they hate anything that reflects the will of the people or smacks of a true democratic republic.

I live about 20 miles south of Brattleboro just over the border in Massachusetts and I can tell you that Battleboro as been for quite sometime a very progressive town with strong influences from the sixties era. You should visit sometime Amy.

Great discussion going on here. Seaweed - wonderful comment there about Hillary. Also, so many Vermonters have died in the war because this is the heartland of patriotism - my country right or wrong......
If you want the facts about Obama check out MickeyZ http://www.mickeyz.net/

Vermont might be in my future. In Sinclair Lewis's novel "IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE" the hero escapes to Canada from Vermont when the U.S. falls under a fascist government. Actually, my wife won't move to any place where it snows.

"Does Hillary Clinton Want John McCain Elected As President?

It is obvious that Hillary Clinton cannot be nominated with a majority of elected delegates and equally obvious that she has embarked on a campaign of personal destruction as her last hope.

I cannot remember a Democratic candidate for president engaging in such totally negative personal attacks against a Democratic opponent, through her comments and through back-channel efforts by her staff, including attempts to play "the Muslim card."

Hillary Clinton seeks to destroy her opponent to save her nomination, and will only succeed in destroying the party and her own reputation.

This is why I predict a surge of superdelegates to Obama. They understand her tactics, they understand the danger her tactics pose for the party. They do not want to overrule the verdict of the voters. They realize that a desperate personal-destruction campaign against the probable nominee could turn a possible landslide for Democrats into a major Republican triumph.

Could it be that the outcome Hillary Clinton fears the most is a Democratic landslide led by an inspiring two-term Democratic president who truly turns the page?

Could it be that a preferable outcome would be that she engages in a campaign of total personal destruction of her Democratic opponent, in the hope of electing a Republican who would be a one-term president because of considerable age, allowing Hillary to run in 2012?

There are serious people asking these questions behind the scenes. The more she continues her campaign of destruction, the more we will find Democrats, including myself, believing this "Hillary prefers McCain to Obama" scenario could be true." --- Brent Budowsky

Jane Stanley is from the BBC and I think it boils down to how much of a building needs to collapse before you consider it collapsed. From the sounds of it, pieces falling from the towers hit the building taking huge chunks out of it.

RE: - It makes sense that Vermonters are better informed because they get the Canadian channels.

Like Canadians, they get both Canadian and American channels - though just CTV and the CBC main channel - I don't think they get Newsworld. Canadians get both Newsworld (CBC's version of CNN) and CNN but the only FOX they get is the one that shows Family Guy.

Canadians tend to gravitate towards topics they know something about (which creates the illusion that they know more because they don't post on threads they know nothing about) and to be guilty of source confusion - using the example of language, they often forget which term is Canadian, American or British - couch, sofa or chesterfield - sneakers, runners or trainers.

Need to comment on the two NAFTA-gate threads. Though who think that Harper misrepresented Obama's position on purpose tend to be hanging out at Alexander Panetta's 'NAFTA-Gate' Began with Remark From Harper's Chief of Staff thread and those who think that the leak is accurate tend to be hanging out at Paul Rogat Loeb's Did Clinton Win Ohio on a Lie? - both on Common Dreams. The irony is that the first link in Loeb's article (which is made up of about 1,000 links) is a segment of The National where Peter Mansbridge basically discredits much of the information originally leaked.

RE: - It turns out it was Clinton's camp that was responsible. see this: 1. Report: NAFTA-Gate Leaker Said Hillary's People Were Reassuring Canada, Too

Ian Brodie (source of first leak) talked about both Clinton and Obama to CTV but CTV mentioned Clinton in passing and focused on Obama - which is also suspicious. Though it seems that Brodie didn't have this candid conversation with Global or the CBC. Global is owned by Izzy Asper's sons. CBC is like PBS or the BBC with some public funding and tends to check out tips - if they get them first.

I don't think Clinton was in on it, but when the story broke, she saw it as a gift. Remember that if Clinton did not win either Texas or Ohio she was out of the race - so she looked at NAFTA-gate as something that had immediate rewards and ignored the long term consequences of it.

RE: - The corruption in Vermont makes Jersey politicians seem like a choir boys.

Is there more corruption or are they just more aware of what corruption exists?

RE: - my wife won't move to any place where it snows.

With the wild fluctuations in climate "any place" might include Texas.

Many of you are not old enough to remember the hordes of young people who turned out for Gene McCarthy and the '72 race. He did not win the nomination, McGovern did, and those enthusiastic kids did not have the sense to turn out in November because they thought they were taking the high road by not supporting him. Rhode Island was one state that did give him a plurality. He lost all but one other state. Politics is about compromise and cooperation and collaboration, not purity.

OldPro, I recall Gene McCarthy turning out hordes of young people in 1968, but not in 1972. McGovern's biggest problem was that his troops offended the Democratic Party establishment and they sat on their hands on election day -- I have even heard that some Dems actively campaigned for Nixon. They wanted to teach the McGovernites a lesson for unseating some of the Dem Big Wig delegations during the '72 convention. (I read the first Mayor Daley was particularly in a snit -- he vowed to rub McGovern's nose in the loss and his precinct captains were telling Chicago Dems to pull the lever for every Dem except McGovern -- vote for Nixon instead.)

I am old enough to remember being pissed off at Nixon for preempting my Saturday Morning Cartoons - that is as far back as I can remember.

He wouldn't just wait until the cartoon was over either but would interrupt it just when the story was starting to get interesting.

AMY GOODMAN FOR PRESIDENT.

impeach them, all of them.

lillulu you are a smarty.

I wish I had a little optimism right now. I had to disconnect cable to keep my sanity yesterday.

I remember the Chicago Convention... delegates getting beaten with the protestors... the DNC crucifying the anti-war delegations.

I remember having to tune into Pacifica during the SF State Protests and People's Park, just to find out what was going on, because Caspar Weinberger was doing his covert best at PBS.

As far as I can tell it hasn't changed. In the absence of a free media, we're doing amazingly well. Nevertheless, I'm convinced we're screwed.

I'm waiting for your surge. Beyond Hope... I'm praying to the God I don't believe in for it.