Now It Gets Dangerous for Democrats
Here is what conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh said about the prospect of a continuing contest for the Democratic presidential nomination on the eve of the Ohio primary and the Texas primacaucuses that have - with "good enough" finishes for Hillary Clinton -- assured the race will go on:
"We need Barack Obama bloodied up politically."
Limbaugh explained to fellow right-wing gabber Laura Ingraham - yes, they are now interviewing each other -- that Obama has gotten this far in his race for the presidency with most of his popular appeal intact. As such, he would be hard to beat as the Democratic nominee in a race with Republican John McCain.
"I want our party to win. I want the Democrats to lose. They're in the midst of tearing themselves apart right now. It's fascinating to watch, and it's all going to stop if Hillary loses," Limbaugh argued, as he suggested that Republicans in primary states should cross party lines to vote for Clinton.
Only by keeping Clinton in the race, Limbaugh explained, will it be possible to "sustain the soap opera" that might ultimately diminish Obama sufficiently to secure an undeserved Republican win in November. Well, the soap opera has been sustained.
With her big Ohio and Rhode Island wins and a narrow victory in Texas, Clinton can do more than just carry on. She can say, credibly, that, "We're going strong and we're going all the way."
Tuesday night belonged to Clinton, and she owned it.
As Bruce Springsteen's "The Rising" played, the senator claimed the victory she needed with the line: "Ohio has written a new chapter in the history of this campaign, and we're just getting started."
What is getting started is an edgier, rougher Democratic presidential race.
And don't think that the New York senator will pull any punches.
If the Clinton campaign has learned anything from the two-week campaign that preceded the Ohio and Texas votes, it is that Hillary Clinton will not win unless Barack Obama loses. The senator from Illinois must be damaged, badly, or so the theory goes, in order for the senator from New York to grab the Democratic nomination from his clutches.
Make no mistake: The candidate and her Clintonistas have sought to inflict that damage.
This campaign moves so fast that it is easy to forget everything that happens in a two-week timespan. But, since Clinton lost Wisconsin's February 19 primary, the hits really have kept coming. There was "Barack stole lines from Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick" hit. There was the "Barack stole a page from Karl Rove when he sent out negative mailings" hit. There was the "Barack dresses like a Muslim" hit. There was the "Barack's campaign told the Canadians one thing about trade and Ohio another thing" hit. There was the "Barack's not the guy you want answering the phone in the White House" hit. There was even the "Barack's defiling the memory of Ann Richards because she would have wanted Hillary to have a clean shot at the nomination" hit. And always, always, always, there was the steady drumbeat from candidate Clinton that: ""I have a lifetime of experience I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech (against authorizing President Bush to attack Iraq) he made in 2002."
Now, the strategy has been sufficiently-if-not-completely validated.
So Clinton will go on, and chances are that she will go on rough. Will it be enough to secure her the nomination? Clinton and her aides think so. Their calculus goes like this: Obama is really just another Democratic presidential "flash-in-the-pan" who started strong but will ultimately wear thin- like Gary Hart in 1984, like Paul Tsongas in 1992, like Howard Dean in 2004 - and Clinton can slowly but surely take advantage of uncertainty about Obama until she "closes the deal" at a convention where she arrives with momentum from late primaries and caucuses, maybe even revote victories from Michigan and Florida, and a clear advantage among super delegates.
The scenario is not a likely one. More likely is a repeat 1972, when South Dakota Senator George McGovern seemed to have the nomination secured by early spring but former Vice President Hubert Humphrey's campaign kept "raising doubts" about McGovern to the very end. The Humphrey campaign and its allies pulled no punches. They suggested, with none-too-subtle encouragement from incumbent Republican President Richard Nixon's surrogates, that a McGovern candidacy - and, presumably, a McGovern presidency -- would be all about "acid, abortion and amnesty": legalizing drugs, attacking moral values and forgiving military deserters.
Democrats did not buy it; they gave McGovern more primary wins and the nomination. But McGovern and his campaign were done severe damage. A World War II hero with a stellar Senate record on serious issues like providing food aid to the world - so stellar that Bob Dole and George Bush would ultimately celebrate his work in this particular area -- was redefined as what Republicans and their amen corner in the media now refer to as a "McGovernite."
Clinton's campaign has been given a new lease on life.
It will continue.
But she and her supporters - as well as Democrats who may still be undecided about this contest -- need to think long and hard about the kind of campaign will now run against Barack Obama. If the Clinton camp runs the right campaign on legitimate issues, and if it does so with dignity, they will not harm Democratic prospects in November - no matter who the nominee turns out to be. On the other hand, if they run wrong, and seek to destroy Obama by any means necessary, they could be responsible for two defeats: Clinton's for the nomination and Obama's for the presidency in November.
Those are the stakes as the long campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination now enters its most dangerous stage.
John Nichols' new book is The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders' Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson hails it as a "nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the 'heroic medicine' that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"
Copyright © 2008 The Nation
Delicious
Digg
StumbleUpon
Newsvine
Facebook
Google
Yahoo
Technorati
180 Comments so far
Show AllIn regards to:
That's because our government says DU is harmless. So why bring up a subject that is harmless?
Of course our government is lying, but the candidates may not know it.
~
Kem,
Hope you get the discovery channel -- we just watched this today on direct tv and the hour long show is worth watching every second of it.
Discovery Health :: HealthDay :: Gulf War Illness Strongly Linked to Chemical Exposure
http://health.discovery.com/news/healthscout/article.html?article=613421&category=17&year=2008
Keep passing on the good stuff! Maybe, one day our candidates will awaken and address these matters. If not, maybe global research should consider putting each and every picture on the front pages of every newspaper in the world!
Take care,
Diana Saba
Disabled Retired Nurse
Nothing Depleted About 'Depleted Uranium'
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUL20060122&articleId=1777
Folks-
If you agree with the logic that superdelegates should not overrule the will of the voters, you should think about taking a few minutes to send a letter like the sample one below. It has the potential to be a very powerful act of mass nonviolent resistance.
***
You may contact your Democratic senators and representatives at:
http://www.senate.gov
http://www.house.gov
Dear Senator XXX,
I am a registered Democrat and I've voted in every election since 1988. Should Senator Obama lead in pledged delegates and popular vote at the time of the convention and the superdelegates do not follow, I will stay home in November. No Democrat in any race will get my vote, and I will strongly urge other Democrats to stay home as well.
Please share this with your fellow superdelegates.
Thank you,
XXX
That's because our government says DU is harmless. So why bring up a subject that is harmless?
Of course our government is lying, but the candidates may not know it.
What I don't understand and find extremely appaling is not one of the candidates have addressed the following issues...
Nothing Depleted About 'Depleted Uranium'
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUL20060122&articleId=1777
Diana Saba
Tn USA
Hopefully the split between the 2 Democratic candidates destroys their party. They have done nothing substantial to stop(and in fact have aided) Bush's policies and therefore nothing is lost if their party self-destructs.
Only something better and more effective can come from the rubble.
Kem, a toast to you -- you have a devilish sense of humor.
Clinton doesn't have a chance of getting the nomination on the square -- she'd have to win every remaining primary and caucus by over 60 percent of the vote. She's hasn't won even one primary or caucus by over 60 percent. That means she's going to have to play the Superdelegates -- if they go with her, McCain wins in a landslide as Dems desert Hillary in revulsion. Read this:
Comment posted by Matt Shirley to Altercation, Media Matters, 3/6/08:
Name: Matt Shirley
Hometown: Pearl Harbor, HI
Dr. Alterman,
If I may, I'd like to make a few comments to provide a little perspective to the hyperventilating about yesterday's primaries:
It's over, even with last night's results, we are left with:
(1) Sen Obama has a lead of approx 138 in pledged delegates. There are only about 619 pledged delegates left. Sen Clinton would have to poll 63%, on average, in ALL of the remaining primaries. She did not do that in ANY of last night's States, and it is hard to see even one primary where she could do that.
(2) The following States are included in that 619: Wyoming, Mississippi (the next two States between now and Pennsylvania), Indiana, North Carolina, Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota, with 318 delegates. Even assuming Sen Clinton splits 50-50 in these Obama friendly States (highly unlikely), she would have to poll 73% in all the remaining elections. Not even if Sen Obama was caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl, could Sen Clinton pull that off.
(3) So her hopes boil down to convincing the superdelegates to give her the nomination despite having won fewer pledged delegates in the primaries. That would hand the moderates and independents that voted for Sen Obama to the Reps, and energize the conservative Clinton haters in a way Sen McCain could never hope to achieve on his own. Not even a Party with an instinct for its own jugular like the Dems would be that stupid.
It's over.
Read the rest here: http://mediamatters.org/altercation/200803060001#13
It's very interesting that right pundits find Obama harder to beat. You'd think they'd used all their ammo up against the Clintons and were saving up their juicy bits for Obama after the primaries when the fight against McLame starts up.
I think Obama's charisma scares them, and rightfully so. He'll definitely win the "who'd you rather have a beer with" theory this time.
IKE IRWIN March 7th, 2008 12:00 am
it's so critical that we remember to laugh at the absurdity of the situation i remember either elie wiesel or victor frankl noted that those who had the greatest chance of making it through the concentration camps were those who adapted and used humor while demonstrating truth (remember the film life is beautiful), i believe that's probably true in prison as well. whether we have many freedoms, a few freedoms, or no freedom we still have satirical humor.
it's amazing when i run across censors in life, if not outright censorship - implied censorship, even at such prestigious gatherings (murders)as a CD thread. i don't understand why people can't use the scroll down function on their computer if an insight is too long or complex or didactic. just skip it. instead it's 'oh my god' she said blah, blah, blah, i have a tendency to scroll past the whiners.
is the first amendment still a progressive idea?
thank you for the thoughtful letter, when i first read it - it completely resonated w/ my own feelings. if obama doesn't pull it out, i'm buying a few bottles of bourbon and will make my decision about a week later. if it goes to the convention (as it will), i truly hopes he walks out of the convention if he isn't nominated. as to which party he should align himself with ? (green, labor, rainbow) i can't say.
...see ya on the streeets of denver.........support sheehan.......
...peace...............
This Nichols story has brought out the most humorous cross comments yet. I have not stopped laughing from the abusive comments that a few people have exchanged with others. Yes how good . . .the home of the free? Nnd the very, very, very, very, brave. So brave the people have to shadow box with terrorism, hide under their beds, and pee their pants when a firecracker sounds for democracy day or is it hypocrisy day?
This is what the USA has become, the most frightened homeland buffoonery, witnessed on this planet! All one can do is laugh at this display of deep wisdom. How proud I am to have spent three years of my life fighting for what this country has become. Yes by all means I hope it becomes what some of you out there want, it will help it go down faster. Why try to help Obama who has captured the minds of the youth who want change? Give him a chance to rise to the office and I believe he will!!!
Now in Nov can the DEMs (Hillarites and Barockers), Greens and Naderits and REP haters have the same if any venom and teeth left to prevent McCain from being Pres? And CD editors - any limits on posting, 500 words or less please?
If Clinton wins the nomination I get to vote for Nader again. Just when I thought I might vote for a Democrat. Funny thing is that I voted for Clinton in 92 and have voted Green ever since. This year I told my friends that I would vote for Obama, even though he is flawed, if the Dems could get him nominated. I like him because he has done more to attract new voters than anyone in my lifetime. Clinton may prove to drive more voters away than anyone else.
Ah yes, a vote for Nader is a vote for McCain. Well, so is a vote for Clinton.
"Now It Gets Dangerous for Democrats?"
Hell, Now it gets dangerous for all of us!
I do not fully subscribe to Nichols' analysis about the nature of the conflict being stirred-up between Clinton and Obama.
In fact, I sense a darker and more malevolent hand in the stirring of this pot than merely Clinton and Obama's natural tendencies to compete with each other, by fair or tough tactics, for the nomination. I also see a comparison of campaign '08 more with '68 than with the 1972 campaign that Nichols references.
Yes, a ruling elite 'global corporatist Empire' hiding behind the facade of this 'Vichy American' faux government is entirely unified, and any orchestrated conflict between these initially vetted candidates is purely to escalate their level of publicly guaranteed allegiance to the corporatist Empire's absolute sovereignty.
By upping the ante on how loyal each of the remaining candidates will be in their respective pledges to the corporatist Empire's foreign (war) and domestic (economic) policies this allows the corporatist Empire to extract an accelerated spiral-downward of the "least of the worse" during the pre-election campaign ---- in order to insure that the final choice of only two candidates (which the American people still think they have any control over through their wanning voting rights) will already be driven, by competition, to the lowest possible level before the election.
Secondarily, this drive to "say and pledge anything" will also better insure that the corporatist Empire will never again find that they have an uncooperative president who has to be dealt with through extraordinary measures once actually in office --- like JFK or his brother.
This "race to the bottom" seems to be going extremely well, as noted.
Who knows? Perhaps Obama's role by the corporatist Empire, in this 'three card monte' scam of '08 is nothing more than being the leftish stand-in for Nader ----- while the real Nader exposes and attacks the real empire?
Without endorsing anyone, as I do not. I wish we had a viable
third party and could vote for a John Edwards or a Kucinich,
but we don't have a viable third party. Not yet at least. So
let me blog this observation withot any unwarranted attacks
about my credability, or political preferences, or my morals.
I wished to see 'exactly' how Hillary, Obama and McCain have
voted. What a surprise. Of the twelve most important votes on
the Iraqi issue, Bush's appointments of others, I discovered that
Hillary only voted EIGHT times with a vote that mirrors progressives
views. ___ Obama voted FOUR times progressively and McCain ONCE.
Based upon their actual votes, which are public information and open
and available for any of us to carefully study, I have to believe that
some of the opinions offered here are not very well informed.
Of course that is just my opinion and what in hell do I know.
Would anyone care to fairly debate my comments, or just ignore
an "obvious DLC shill" who does not always agree with pre-concieved,
PERHAPS faulty notions of some? If any do wish ot debate it, you may
wish to check the actual facts and truth of their votes however.
BELOW AN OPEN LETER TO BARAK OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN COORDINATOR.
In support of all those who shout here in vain against the Clinton scourge, against the Clinton camp who simply wants more of the same "failed policies of the past", in support who those who want change at any price because it can't be worse than these past eight years, nothing can, I submit a letter requested by the Obama's campaign director. It is an open letter to the super delegates. We all know that the entrenched congress is opposed to Obama and the will of America. We know the bought and paid media is nothing more than an establishment, corrupt, rubber stamp for government policies and afraid of their own shadows. They reflect this gutless country so afraid they might lose their next new car they would defeat any change agent more of the same stupidity regardless of the cost. They are afraid of change, which is necessary for global survival. I am opposed to the infrastructure of the Green party since the level of anarchy dictates against any real positive direction. Or for that matter a run by Nader, not enough charisma to attract sufficient voters, not that his message lacks importance. Hillary followed directly in the footsteps of Karl rove and George Bush and the republicrat from Connecticut, Lieberman her good friend.
Change is the only hope for this country and the world!
Dear Mr. David Plouffe,
Thank you for your request, although by e-mail. I am a visual artist, Filmmaker and global communicator. I have recently returned from Africa and work on both sides of the Atlantic in Europe. I know from my work that people for the first time in a long time are hoping for a change in America. Europeans believe that Barak Obama offers the possibility that America will once again join the global community. His stated environmental objectives create enthusiasm in those in other parts of the world.
There are some who believe that the democratic will of the people should be overturned by the presumption of power as in the super-delegate issue of the Democratic Party. This raises the specter of large-scale defections toward the Republican agenda by the youth vote, should the Democratic Party not align itself with the peoples democratic and non-militant direction. Should this occur it would affect world security and the issue of climate change directly. These issues are dependent upon radical solutions, which include global economic changes. Defection of democrats and particularly the young people-who hope for change and believe that change is necessary could possibly tilt the election toward the Republicans should the youth opt out. They would refuse to turn out for the Clinton camp.
Many fear that Obama may lose the election as a result of the strange electoral system and candidate approval mechanisms, felt to be undemocratic. This reflects the basic problem of what many think is a so-called Democracy in America where a win in the popular vote does not guarantee the change in direction of the country.
The Electoral College can make a change as we saw in the 2004 election which allowed Bush to take office; this renders the popular vote, void. The Democratic Super-delegate issue is a reflection of the absurd non-democratic American condition of the Electoral College. Should Barak Obama win the popular vote from America's Democratic caucuses, delegates and committed states prior to the convention I do not believe that he should accept second place as vice president, which seems to be the mood of the media controlled election process and spin jockeys. I believe that he should maintain himself as the democratically designated elected leader of the Democratic Party. Contrary to that hack journalist, Blitzer and his 'Dream Team".
Obama forced to that position should form a third party and run against both Hillary Clinton and John McCain. This would be true democracy in action but we all know this is a fantasy. People everywhere both in this country and abroad want change in the USA. Should that occur Obama needs a ready made party and given his environmental agenda the Green Party and others might supply the reasoning. However they are in such disarray and is probably an unlikely thought. His rhetoric suggests, that we must move away from the "failed policies of the past" if we are to save this world for future generations. However, his statement should show a willingness to take the lead in the conviction that he espouses.
Obama has stated he has run because the time is now not in the future. The changes needed, are as he puts it, "right now", not in the future and the perils of environmental collapse are approaching so quickly that we do not have the luxury of another eight years of "business as usual" which would be the Clinton way, before he could claim the office of president. Clinton knows that she can not win against McCain without Obama. To defeat Clinton and the return to the failed Bush methodology, she amply displayed to win Ohio with the politic of fear. Obama requires that he turn to a radical shift in campaign policy it necessary to win.
He is a populist candidate that has offered hope! He should continue that platform with the courage to take the steps necessary if the standard-bearer position is denied to him to effect party and changes in American direction. He should take this radical shift and direction, if necessary! By doing so he would serve notice to the Democratic Party that democracy is not lost in America should the first place be denied. The party is being prepared for Clinton to take the crown with the discussion now on the table for Michigan and Florida to vote once again. We all lose and the possibility of change and it goes down with her selection.
If Obama takes half the country with him to a third party we all have a chance. He believes that the failed policies of the past exist within the entrenched two party systems in congress represented by the Super delegates. The only way of preventing another move to those failed policies is not to allow Hillary Clinton to win by forcing Barak Obama to take second place. But does Barak Obam have that amount of courage to suggest this option, I doubt it, though I support the man. This would be the last hand to play and he should be discussing this in the back rooms of the party as Hillary is discussing, the two other states she covets for her crown.
This public denial by him of allowing super-delegates to determine the election would be a way of circumventing the second place the congress and CNN want him to accept. It would force the super delegates to reflect the will of the people. I heard one of the super-delegates speaking from Georgia. He was black and under examination by the press, it was clear that the position of many "super delegates" would be to overturn the national-will, regardless of Barak Obama taking the popular vote or the majority of delegates. "The failed policies of the past" has put the youth of the USA and the World in the present circumstances of possibly destroying their future and their life.
In the final analysis the USA did not rise to the level of intelligence and courage necessary by electing George Bush to office for two terms and I doubt that it will by choosing Barak Obama to lead. The media and the democratic establishment suggests the "dream team" scenario by supporting the status quo and have the temerity to think it can choose the way the people's choice will be suborned and thus nullifying the very democracy they espouse. The height of cynical belief. This congress has not dealt with Bush and Cheney for lying to the American people and Wolf Blitzer on CNN is the scourge of presumption and simply a clone of the establishment.
These policies, if continued will lead to chaos and the disaffection of the youth and could, by default, elect John McCain and with him a continuation of war for another hundred years. This is a moot point since thirty years remain before environmental disaster takes hold because that is the time we have left to make the radical shift in global politics, environmental direction and economics.
This is an open response from a European blogger. Included below:
Aggie67 February 16th, 2008 2:20 am 
I hope you Americans realize that we, in the rest of the world, are following these primary elections of yours with the greatest of interest. Whatever you do affects us so much. The election of George W Bush seemed to have been such a corruption of the democracy you hold dear, please don't let it happen again by your incessant bickering amongst yourselves. The world needs you to get back to REAL DEMOCRACY, so that we can all live a safer life. What we can't understand is why you don't seem to have "one man, one vote" It all seems to be based on which candidate has the most money, delegates and very strong lobbyists. Definitely not one, man one vote and the winner of the popular vote don't seem to win the election. Weird definition of democracy. 

Thanks ~Wonder 5789.~ I'm aware of what Titti-Tatti is and that was precicely why I responded to HER. This fine site has been OVERRUN with neo-con trolls for the past eight weeks. Their purpose is to disrupt and create friction amongst progressives and they have been somewhat successful in doing just that. They target me perhaps more than some others, because I post frequently, usually on two or three articles out of dozen every day. I post frequently as I'm retired, don't watch a lot of television and it isn't time for gardening as yet.
When I or any post an opinion, it is open for discussion and opposing viewpoints. We learn from one another by honest debating, sharing different views and often it is not only educational, but fun and at times humerous posts are written. However, when one such as the CRUD, Titti-Tatti or the Lizard arrives and writes bullshit, or starts a pissing contest, by writing some obnoxious attack instead of addressing the comments and offering a differnt opinion, it is disruptive.
Before we know it. the article becomes lost in the ensuing remarks. What may occur then, is the one attacked for no fair reason, is looked down upon by others who actually share the same opinions of the one who was attacked by a troll in the first place. If you don't reply to them their words may be taken as the truth. Hard feeling may ensue and before you can say shit, someone of value leaves this forum in disgust. That is the trolls purpose and I point them out, answer their attacks, so that any who may be un-aware may be more aware of their tactics and what they are doing here. They are smart, by sometimes posting sensible comments, attempting to hide their actual agenda. They often work as a team sharing the same offices. I have proof of that, and have previously posted what some trolls are doing from the same office complex in New York city.
Don't bother with titti_tatti, he/she is a troll working for McPain.
Thank you also ~Tetti-Tatti~. I suppose you have some appropriate backup information about me, to support your obnoxious obvservations of me. You and I have disagreed on another issue and therefore I'm sub-mental, oblivious, unreachable and my type of mentality is the reason we're in the mess we are in today. I have constantly berated the Bush/Cheney cartel and believe we are now a facsict state and don't appprove of it. You disagree with my opinions, so you must have the opposite opinions on those issues.
KEM PATRICK is the sad face of the American voter: sub-mental, oblivious, unreachable. His lesser-of-two-evils mentality is the reason we're in the mess we're in today.
Democrats are the real enemies of America, for the simple reason that they fool voters into believing they're on their side. Watch what they do, not what they say, for heaven's sakes. At least Republicans are scum, they admit it and they don't hide it.
LostMyTribe ---- no that is not true, what your friend said about VP's being barred from running for President. And to prove it, one example is Bush Sr. ran and won the presidency after being Reagans VP for two terms.
Gore ran in 2000 but lost, many more examples of course.
~CRUD~, I'd rather you swore at me than to say here comes the "DLC Sycophant", refering to me. My favorites were John Edwards or Kucinich. Apparantly we are now stuck with Hillary or Obama.
I wrote, I see it as Hillary will be the Demo nominee and you name me a DLC shill. I may be very wrong about my assumptions, but voicing an opinion such as who I think will win the Demo nomination, sure as hell doesn't make me a shill for that person and I don't deserve some blast out of the blue for that opinion, based upon what may very well occur. In my post, I said Hillary had used smear tatics and it backfired on her and she lost a lot of votes for that. I said Lizard is a neo-con shill and he has proved he is and several other decent people who post here agree. But you supported him here. Read YOUR posts you soplist jackass.
I am fully aware of what Bill Clinton did as our president, he made an ample number of serious mistakes. I think Hillary will attempt to correct those errors, I think Obama will also. I also think that one of them will be our next president and sure as hell don't wnat to see McCain win. Finally, unless and until we have major changes with our election process, funding for elections, limit terms for Congress and outlaw lobbying, not much of anything productive is going to change and the corporations will continue to rule us as Rossevelt warned us they would. We are already a fascist nation and I don't like it. I've written that series of opinions here numerous times in the past. I'm not a DLC shill, which is about the same as a Neo-Con shill in my opinion.
Look at the way we attack each other in here with sarcasm, accusation, etc. What makes us think 'we' are different from 'them'? It is part of the darkness of human nature to promote division. When ideology replaces present moment perception, it becomes an agent of war and discord. That is why only individual inward transformation will change the world. But we love to ignore the obvious because its easier to be self-righteous and blame others.
Yeah CRUD DUD, well, my mommy ran a speakeasy in Chicago, so screw you.
barely human,
The other consequence is that "left" and "right" will be seen as the useless poetic, metaphorical and allegorical axis it always has been. The terms are both allegorical, refering to the layout of the latter 18th century French assembly. They're so useless today that they've become little more than smoke or cover through which bad ideas, corruption, corporate-rule, fiscal mismanagement and self-backstabbing, are snuck in.
Possibility One: Hillary wins nomination, breaks party apart, Republicans win forever.
Possibility Two: Hillary wins, party holds together long enough to win one election, then she betrays all Democratic principals in an orgy of triangulation, we still shaft the planet, four years out another less repulsive Republican wins and the Democratic party is destroyed.
Possibility Three: Obama wins, senate and house go to the left, and society starts to restore a bit.
The meanness in Hillary may win her the election, but it will cost us our future, in the end.
I'll take a plodder over someone so convinced of their own righteousness any day. A supremely confident Hillary president will listen to no-one, and we live in a world that needs more thought, not less.
Same old shit, whatever happened to issues, whatever happened to policies, why do the general public accept this disgusting habit by politicians of lowest denominator mud slinging . The minute a candidate starts a character assassination of an opponent then that should tell even the dimmest among us they have little else to say.
Clinton/ McCain, America deserves you.
Kem is not a shill for Clinton. First, the two things I disliked about Billy were the promotion of NAFTA, and going along with the Grinch and his cronies on welfare reform. As a man, Billy had a weakness for women, and the self-righteous repugs (who in many cases were/are just as 'bad' or worse) rode that horse as far as it would go.
Otherwise, Clinton was not near as bad as those who came before him, though the religious right/repug machine would have you believe he was the devil himself. Clinton was blamed for just about everything by them, even after Bush took over the helm! Clinton's economic policies (except for NAFTA and pushing for China's favorite trade status) were much more sound than those of GWB, who vowed to be Raygun on steroids.
Now, we need a president who will strive to reverse NAFTA, rebuild our infrastructure, end the present wars while scaling back the military, bring back our manufacturing base (or build it anew), and create a sane health care program.
In the absence of Edwards, Nader comes closest to addressing these issues. That being said, the road back to sanity is likely to be one of contraction and hardship--at least for awhile, but it will at least be a sustainable course, unlike the one we're on now.
If Obama runs as an independent, John McCain wins.
Wanna play the middle name game? How about Hillary Republican Clinton?
The Clintons and the Bushes have many ties. guess who was at the Bilderberg meeting in Canada? Dont they choose presidents?
How about this? If Obama loses the nomination, he runs as an independant?
One thing seems certain--as the U.S.A. goes down, most people on both the "left" and the "right" will point fingers and hurl insults at each other, never accepting responsibility for the consequences of their own actions or considering the possibility that their own deeply-held beliefs and values are part of the problem.
Keep this one in your holster:
Report: NAFTA-Gate Leaker Said Hillary's People Were Reassuring Canada, Too
By Eric Kleefeld - March 5, 2008, 11:33PM
The NAFTA-Gate controversy has taken another turn, one that could potentially boomerang back on Hillary Clinton after initially damaging Barack Obama.
The Canadian Press — Canada's domestic equivalent of the AP — is reporting that the original source of the leak was Ian Brodie, chief of staff to Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper. And as it turns out, Brodie's original conversation with reporters focused much more on Hillary as the candidate whose people were reassuring Canada that the anti-trade rhetoric was all just campaign talk.
"He said someone from Clinton's campaign is telling the Embassy to take it with a grain of salt," said one participant in the conversation. The source added, "someone called us and told us not to worry."
Hillary's people were able to use NAFTA-Gate very effectively in questioning Obama's honesty in the Ohio and Texas campaigns, ultimately pulling off some decent wins. But if this thing doesn't die down, and the focus turns from Obama over to Hillary, they could very well see the story come back to bite them.
Link: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03...
From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.2008...
The sad, tragic truth seems to be that negativity works - at least amongst American voters. Obama may want to appear above the fray, but if he does, he will probably lose. Americans don't want reasoned issues - we want blood.
What a sad reality.
I guess as long as people are able to convince themselves that Democrats and Republican's are the same side of the coin. It eases their guilty conscious to vote another fascist Republican into office instead of assigning them to the scrap heap of history. That's the reason this country is such a mess. People keep voting the same Republican fascist's into office deluding themselves that this one is going to be different. 'Maverick' my ass!!! If he wants to win McCain will become another McBush!
anyone remember the Hillary Clinton quote where she advised folks who didn't like her war vote to find someone else to vote for?
The Obama campaign should use that in an ad to remind folks.
Problem is, Obama, unlike the desperate bottomfeeder, Clinton has at the very least a modicum of class and integrity and may be advese to mining the rich veins of Clinton dirt. Me, otoh, would have no problem watching Hillary wallow in her own stink. If they are willing to share the same Neocon sewer with the Bush gang, rather than ever hosing down the stench, then the BushClinton dynasty needs to be flushed together.
lost my tribe March 6th, 2008 2:29 am
actually i might be wrong,
he might not be able to run as VP, but definitely could be appointed VP.
it might be more like mcbeth. clinton makes obama an offer he can't refuse (be my VP luke, or face the wrath of the dark side- DLC). once obama becomes VP, his plane say...mum.. flies into the side of a mountain in say ...mum.....
in yugoslavia, maybe president clinton could have used the plane.. say a week earlier.
actually this could be act V scene 4, before the actual act VI - when bill clinton is appointed VP - he'll call obama his brother at the funeral.
i believe if, god forbid, the above scenario unfolded - it would be constitutional.
it's always been dangerous to be a democrat, ask ron brown.
.....peace....
kathyodat,
i respect your opinion and i hope you understand i'm just trying to have fun tonight. the results from ohio were very disappointing. i suspect race had a larger factor in the decision, for the last week i had been examining the county by county break down of the election results around the country (over at nyt's election 2008). the map of virginia caught my attention, if you look at the map of virginia you'll discover clinton gleaned most of her support from the appalachian part of the state (?the piedmont?), i knew he'd have problems in ohio and i suspect he'll have problems in WV. i think theres a direct correlation between low education levels and clinton victories. the billy-ray-jim-bob constituency of some of her rallies were harbingers of the outcome. as rothschild pointed out, he believes the SNL sketches influenced the outcome.
however, despite my humor/disdain of the clintons, i agree w/ dick morris' assessment. Obama needs to hit home the point clinton does not have the experience she claims credit for. he needs to put the position of first lady in context. for example, should rosylan carter be hillary's running mate b/c she was first lady? or perhaps a more qualified candidate barbara bush should run with mccain as his running mate. obama needs to have r carter describe what the role of the first lady actually entails.
it's the same with the corruption/influence of money. the minute the word rezco is mentioned, obama needs to be mentioning chelsea clinton's bosses name, bill clinton's business contacts and exactly which PAC's are supporting clinton. he needs to put that PAC $$$ into context for the masses. what do those contributions mean for clinton policy positions (talk about a great way to cancel out clinton's healthcare issue).
i know we may disagree on the ferocity of his approach, personaly i hope obama uses witty humor to make his points, but the points need to be made. you yourself have noted the sleazy tactics employed thus far, he either fights back or both of us will be spending more time at cynthia mckinney's website.
------------------------------------------
lost my tribe March 6th, 2008 2:29 am
actually your correct, bill clinton could run as his wifes running mate as a way to circumvent the 22nd amendment (obviously the legislatures of the past never imagined the dynamic duo when the amendments were authorized). try wiki..
.........peace..........
I'm interested in a point of law if anyone can help me out. This morning when Clinton said on CNN that she would consider a "dream team Clinton-Obama ticket. I sort of rolled my eyes thinking she's being too nice considering all the mudslinging she's be doing. Wondered if Obama would go for it. Somebody said that according to the 18th amendment a VP was then not allowed to run for president. I've searched and can't find where the 18the amendment says that. Just curious because if it's true it would mean if the so called dream team wins she has effectively shut the door on Obama ever running for president again.
Once again "Lucy" is holding the football and is promising to not pull it away at the last second. The sad thing is that so many "Charlies" are buying into to yet again.
Lobo Gris
iowablackbird, great links. It's clear that voters are taking a second look at Obama, and he needs to show that he can fight back. Since Hillary is hurting him with low blows, he needs to hurt back, or Americans will not feel secure with him. I hope he can keep it clean and honest at the same time, something that isn't even on her radar. I think he would gain respect from Americans from that. I read that if he goes after her vulnerabilities (and she has them), the Clintons will pull the race card. The Republicans will anyway, so let get it out there.
kathyodat
KEM - I never needed to use the foulmouthed diatribes you do. My mother always told me that if people start cursing and ranting about anything you've said, you must have been close to a truth they don't want exposed. As Shakespeare wrote 'methinks the lady doth protest too much'.
Using obscene language must make you feel like a man.
And, whether you agree or not or care or not, you still sound like a shill for Clinton and the Dem Leadership Council who is bought and paid for by Corporate America. Just take a good look at your comments.
Get real people. Washington is broken and whoever gets elected will serve their economic masters and that is not you and I. So get local and get Green.
dick morris' advice to obama (former clinton campaign mngr 1996)
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03052008/news/columnists/obama_better_battle_back_before_its_too__100539.h...
{"The battle of Hillary is over. The battle of Obama has begun.
The question of his readiness and experience looms ever larger in the minds of the media and of voters.
Her red-phone ad, citing her supposedly superior readiness to be commander in chief, evidently cut deeply among the electorate.
It's time that Obama counters her strategy by hitting back. His lofty politics of hope will avail him little in the aggressive, rough-and-tumble world of modern politics.
He's got to spell out the special-interest connections that stigmatize Hillary as the tool of the lobbyists.
He must underscore the need for her to release her tax returns for 2007 and 2006 to show the source of her new-found wealth.
He's got to learn to trade blows with the Clintons, the best counterpunchers in the business"}
--------------------------
some thoughts from ej dionne about the race thus far and the stakes on the table.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080303_the_millennium_gap/?ln
{"If Obama prevails, historians will see him as the first Democrat since Franklin Roosevelt to bring a whole new constituency into the system. That, the political scientists tell us, is how realignments happen."}
{"Clinton ran the last campaign of the 20th century while Obama ran the first campaign of the 21st century. Galston argues that Clinton ran a first-rate version of the last century's campaign—her fundraising by past standards was impressive.
"But Obama one-upped her by understanding the new possibilities of modern communications."}
{"Obama reached out to bloggers without pandering to them. In 2005, the blogosphere went after Sen. Pat Leahy for supporting the nomination of John Roberts as chief justice. Although Obama opposed Roberts, he defended Leahy against criticisms he called "knee-jerk," "unfair," and "dogmatic."
But Obama took an additional step, as Matt Bai reports in his essential book on the new Democratic politics, "The Argument." Obama offered a long post of his own on Markos Moulitsas' Daily Kos site declaring that Americans are "suspicious of labels and suspicious of jargon" and that Democrats should stand for "thoughtfulness and openness."
At a stroke (as it were), Obama did two things at once. He established himself as a unifier capable of, as he likes to say, "disagreeing without being disagreeable." And he demonstrated his respect for the blogosphere by arguing with its members in their own space."}
--------------------------
also matthew rothschild, over at the progressive, lists 10 reasons obama lost in ohio
nafta/rezco/the debate/red phone ad/clintons 'fighter image'/economy/too much time in ohio/RI visit/failure to bring richardson on board/ hillary's SNL appearance.
http://www.progressive.org/node/6159/print
continue to support sheehan..............
............peace............
I was kind of excited about Hillary when she first announced she was running. And then there was Barack. And then there was Billary, and the ugliness, and the reminders of who the Clintons really are. Now I have decided that if Hillary is the nominee, I am not voting. I don't really care if it's her or McCain, because they aren't that different. In fact, he might be better, because he doesn't seem to make decisions based on polls.
330mary j:
I'm not sure that the behavior you are describing in Ohio is any different from any other state. I've met so many people in other states that are exactly what you describe. Some are as racist, some not, but they are always obsessed with superficialities and never pay attention to substance. If they did Kucinich would be the nominee. I know it's the low quality of media and education that tend to lead to this, but I wonder how to get through to people that they have to act and organize to make their lives better when all they want to talk about is American Idol.
Lost my tribe----May I presume to recommend a film I just saw An Unreasonable Man----I promise it will make all you read here abundantly clear. We, the people have a long road ahead if we want to take this country back from the corporations and their enablers in Washington---both parties.You, I presume are young and I really want to do this for your generation.
Nader is the convenient scapegoat the Dems need to silence. He exposes their complicity with the corporate masters, and any who believe in his message will be accused of being responsible for a repub victory. Don't buy it. It's the latest big lie to shut us up. Refuse to be silenced!
I am 61 years old and I thought I knew what was what and now I know there is always something new to learn. See the film and be sad and outraged as I was but then we'll join hearts and get to work.
Lieberman?? Would she select a man who ran as an independant for the Senate and also lost as the VP choice once? If she does make it as the Demo's choice, she'd better ask Obama, if she's as smart as her college degrees state she is.
Lets be honest, when Clinton was the president, let's add the plusses and minuses. __ Minuses?? __ Anyway, when he left office, did we have any money in the treasury? How much was the National debt? Did we have a ruined army and National guard? Did we have three carrier groups in the Persian Gulf and fleets of B1, FB-117s and B-52H bombers in Guam and Diego Garcia, prepared to blast Iran? Was our Constitution a G-damn piece of paper? Were we publically threatening to nuke anyone? Was crude oil $104 a barrel?
Did "ALL" of the other world's nations fear us and hate our guts? Was Russia prepared to fight us again? Was it impossible to impeach a president? Was Halliburton making billions every year with no-bid government contracts? Would Clinton have treated the citizens along the Gulf after Katrina the way they have been?
Sure there were minuses, plenty, but it was not quite as bad. In fact, it was lots better. And don't forget, Billy insured oral sex is now an acceptable household discussion. Even the Bible thumpers don't close their mouths to the subject.
Suppose that Hillary did become president. Putting aside for a moment that she will do nothing about the war, NAFTA, reinstating welfare, breaking up media conglomeration, etc... there is a more basic problem we're all forgetting, much more important than Bill running amok. During the Whitewater investigation irrefutable evidence was turned up that showed Hillary had committed insider trading (I believe in cattle shares). No charges were filed since she was the first lady, and not an administration member, so I believe the charges are still open (Perhaps they were closed, perhaps the statute of limitations has run out, but I do not believe so.)If the charges are still open: what is to stop the Republicans from pulling Whitewater two in the first year or two of her presidency. It's like a scandal locked in a time release safe set to go of at the inaugural. If Clinton picks a decent VP maybe it would be a good thing, but somehow I would expect her to pick someone like Lieberman. Personally I think Lieberman would be even worse than Bush; he's just as corrupt and conservative, and he's a Democrat. Talk about a man who could do some damage.
just to clear up something i am just a planted ohioan. when am able to escape this state i will run not walk. most people want to be entertained not educated. most are more interested in american idol or dancing with the stars. believe me i work in a salon, unbelievable comments from "if obama gets in the white house will turn into hip hop nation" to "hes too black".ive also heard the n word more times that even though i dont talk politics at work they love to say that word.most are worried about finding curtains that match their couch, as their neighbors are losing jobs, homes oblivious to anyone else but their world. but dont get me wrong their are the ones who always restore my faith in people just seems the majority are self serving. peace
Hillary will claim to the super delegates, she won the popular vote in texas and she did, and also won all of the other major populated states and therefore would be a better choice over Obama against Mccain in the general. Whether the super delegates buy that argument or not is the question?
After the final states have voted, it will not surprise me at all, if Howard Dean does not allow Fla and Mich to have their votes count at the convention by some means. Depends upon what's in it for him probably. Now sayng that personal opnion, which is worth at least as much as any I've read here, please don't any foster some hair brained opinion, that I'm a Hillary or fascist government supporter. ____Thank you. And if you do foster such an opinon of me, go f##k yourself.
Hey ~BADBOB~, I took a picture of 38DD and the camera melted. I'd vote for her over McCain though, even though her face would make a freight train take a drit road.
330mary j
...they bring all this on themselves. god help us all....
When the axe came into the forest the trees said, "The handle is one of us."
living in ohio with over 200,000 jobs lost to overseas and mexico i watched with total over the top anger weeks ago when hillary the ego spoke at the general motors plant telling thousands of gm employees how she was going to fight for their jobs, if it wasnt so pathetic i would have cried. the gm union did not endorse any one. unlike our governor who kisses up to her any chance he gets. i should be in shock the way the primary went yesterday but am used to the way ohioans dont think. this state voted not once but twice for the biggest moron on earth. but not surprising given in the towns around lordstown over 75 percent drive foreign cars and cant wait to build another wal mart(14 in a 50 mile radius). plus still shocks me everytime a truck passes me with their confederate flag flying proud. WILL THE LAST PERSON OUT OF OHIO PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS!!! they bring all this on themselves. god help us all.
kathydoat
I know Hillary claims that she just found out about the Texas two-step 10 days ago-- but the truth is, Texas had this system when Bill ran--twice-- so she ought to have known-- or maybe she hadn't yet started accumulating her 35 years of experience at that time? LOL
It must be off the left-right axis. It must be a third way, a re-framed message of progress. It could be done.
I'm glad to read that somewhere. What is a left-right axis? It's a line. It's one dimensional! The libertarians, if nothing else, at least plot a second axis--a social axis and an economic axis--and think in two dimensions politically.
Why not try to think three dimensions? Or more?
Well, now we have a bigger criminal to worry about than Bush and Cheney. We cannot get them impeached, but what say we try it on Hillary? After all, it was easy to get it for Bill and he didn`t even wreck the country. Surely Hillary has told one or two lies that should work.
Some CD posters must be appreciated by Bush supporters as it really gets him off the hook now that we have a new criminal to bash. This is certainly a productive line of opinions here and will no doubt solve the problems we are facing.
Another thing, CRUD, anyone who would support a fascism government and blog such here is a troll. The only one I had criticized here, because he writes bullshit here, is the Lizard and you ovbiously were supporting him with your obnoxious post. I can comprehend what's written.
~Crumdudgon~ I said what I believe will occur, that does not mean I support Hillary, You have a reading comp problem? I can say I believe the Spurs will win a game agaist the Bucks. Does that tell ANYONE I support the Spurs? ___Dope. Your other remaks about me were insulting to the max__ for why? Shove it and your lame excuses.
GKL March 5th, 2008 9:30 pm
"It's 3 AM, Mrs. Clinton. Do you know where your husband is?"
it actually takes sincere thought and input to be the first lady of arkansas and the first lady of the US. lets not cut hillary off short here. i mean there were christmas trees to choose, there were cultural events that required planning at the walton center, there were state dinners that had to be planned, those trips oversees didn't just magically happen -somebody had to choose bill's tie/socks for him , this experience was good enough for the people of NY state it should be good enough for us.
so when there's a crisis somewhere in the world and it's 3AM in the morning and that phone is ringing, i feel confident all of hillary's expierence in government will be working for my interests. and if she's not there and bill and his girlfriend answer the phone, well i'll feel confident about his choice to, let's be respectful of former presidents shall we...
-------------------------
BeForKids March 5th, 2008 9:48 pm,
"And what will she do when Bill starts running amuck?"
my suspician is he already is running amok (as he has for 40 years -flowers/lewinsky). we just haven't heard about it yet. the repubs may have better paparazzi then the dem's, i just wish the proof would show up before 4/22 (PA). it would be interesting to see how hillary would respond to that type of emotional attack during this campaign. i'm certain she'd either collapse like a house of cards or go on oprah and rationalize everything to try and become the VP (something i doubt will happen if obama is the candidate).
please continue to support sheehan.....congrats dennis.........
.......peace................
vesselpessel--I understand your point, and if it were any other president, I too would expect that cutting the funds would end the war. But this president has an expressed desire to consider all our kids collateral damage and go for broke. So I think to fund or not to fund was a hard decision to make. Either way they voted on that, it was bound to be wrong.
But your other point, concerning which candidate is supporting the war--I think neither is supporting the war. Both want to see it end, asap. But the fact remains, Clinton voted to authorize the war, instead of doing her homework; Obama did the research and knew it was not justified and not wise. If she has superior experience and is ready to lead on day 1, as she claims, why didn't she exercise her experience and lead in the right direction then? There can be only three possible reasons. Either she is a liar, or she is incompetent, or she led us deliberately into war. Which of these characteristics qualifies her to be President? All three--if you want another one like Bush in the white house.
I will remember your nephew in my prayers, with my own son.
I just wrote my Democratic governor, Senator, and Representative, superdelegates all, and asked them to please come out and endorse Obama to put a stop to the negative and destructive campaign Mrs Clinton is running, for the sake of the party. Please do the same.
my2sense, Clinton is claiming she won the popular vote, and she did. Texas has a weird set for rules for apportioning caucus delegates based on participation in the last general election. Don't know about the primary delegates. The Hispanic population made a poor showing 4 years ago, and are paying for it now. That's Texas.
My concern is that she only found out about it 10 days ago, and I thought, my God, she can't keep on top of anything and she wants to run the country? She doesn't trip over her feet, but she does keep dropping the ball. And what will she do when Bill starts running amuck?
kathydoat
curmudgeon, that was a graceful response to my friend Kem, who surely has a touch of the Irish in him. My middle son, very smart, informed, and conscientious, caucused in Washington for Obama, is a strong Obama supporter, but will ultimately vote against McCain, even if it's Hillary. Different people make different choices. However, the Democrats will lose a great number of votes if she is the candidate, and Republicans will come crawling out of the woodwork who may well have planned on staying home. Why they despise her so much I have no idea. Certainly not for the reasons I would never vote for her. She isn't doing anything Bush wouldn't do and they vote for him. I simply refuse to hold my nose to vote (and for her it would take both hands) and if that's all the Democrats can come up with, I'm outta there.
kathyodat
Clinton should be ashamed. Voters in primary states were doing web searches like "is Obama a Muslim or a Christian" according to Yahoo. Clinton will win at any cost, but the truth is the election is over. If Obama wins Clinton will already have done all of McCain's negative campaigning for him, and Obama will lose the General Election. If Hillary wins she has no chance against McCain. They both have stood by Bush every step of the way, she can't beat McCain's war hero identity, with Welfare Reform; NAFTA; and Bankruptcy Reform she can't stand on a platform of social programs or economic relief, and her only way to win is through negative campaigning, and she has no chance at bringing McCain the war hero down the way she has Obama. Clinton's negative, even racist, campaigning has lost the election for the Democrats. The only chance the Democrats have is if some huge scandal about McCain breaks between now and November. Barring that it's all over.
SO SAD - John NICOLES just anoyher Democrat shill!
What happened to the beauty of impeachment,and the reasoning behind it, nothing.
If you think that the constitution is important
If you think that the war is imoral and iligal.
If you think that tax cuts for the filthy rich are a not
good thing.
If you support single payer universal health care not for profit which would be less costly and more equitable.
If you think that dropping bombs on civilion populations in other countries rather than managing the inferstructure here at home,as bridges collapse.
If you support Isreals action in Gaza paid for by your tax dollars.
If you think that Isreal who has invaded all its neigbors and maintains an enormous nuclear arsenal while condeming and threatining Iran who
hasn,t invaded anyoun for over 200 years for hoping to have the same weopens that both the US and Isreal posses.
If you have an imperial agender.
I could go on and on, but enough is enough !
I suppose that you could be able to back any of the three major candidates if you don't share any of the above points as none of them seem to essentialy share the same set of princibles be it Clinton,Obama,or McCain.
I was turned off by the red phone Clinton ad. I'm suprised that no one has made a sequel to the ad in which Hillary answers the red phone and a very sexy female voice says, "It's 3 AM, Mrs. Clinton. Do you know where your husband is?"
We as Americans have already lost this election. At the rate we're going, the next U.S. president is guaranteed to hold the U.S. above international law, to support aggressive war if the costs aren't too much to U.S. corporate interests, to pursue continued erosion of our civil rights and the public square while pushing wealth from the poor to the wealthy. This country needs a second party.
My2sense - I have a dog in this fight - a nephew who is a Special Forces Marine Capt. on his third tour in the Middle East. I would prefer that both Senator's Clinton and Obama not continue to give Bush continuing funding for the war. Without funding ways would have to be devised to bring our children home. Both Senators are equally culpable. It's disingenuous to say that Clinton is supporting the war while Obama is not!
I would vote for a Nader/Sheehan ticket. Of course I would not get my way but I'd like to see them get some press time if possible. Raise some issues and to hell with the Dems locking Nader out of silly Obama-Clinton so called debates. What I think Nader and Sheehan could bring up are the creative and even outrageous possibilities and means to get our country out of this mudhole we seem to be in. Look what Sheehan managed to do with Camp Casey in Texas of all places where BBQ and Rodeos are king, oh and oil. Why not start doing the theater of the absurd to get national attention. Marches are good too.
LOL--38 double DD--What is that your IQ? 38 double dumb dickhead?
Tailcap and dougnwagner are right. All the republican strategists have admitted that they would rather fight Hillary than Obama. It was the repubs who set up that lie about Obama and the Canadians over NAFTA. The repubs want him out of the race. And our former first lady is in bed with them. Once a Clinton, always a Clinton.
He had to vote to fund the war--since we were already engaged in war. Or would you prefer to let our kids die over there?
For once I agree with dougnwagner
Republicans will win if it is McCain vs. Hillary.
my2sense March 5th, 2008 8:49 pm
Best wat to protect troops already there is to only fund an airline ticket home. That is all that need to be done. The argument about having to continue the because they are already there is silly. You stipulate that the money can only go towards transporting them back.
militantliberal - How can you call Hillary the "pro-Iraq War Candidate" when Senator Obama voted "TWICE" in the Senate to fund the war?
Can somebody explain to me why the press is saying that Clinton won Texas? The Houston Chronicle reported these results today:
Texas Primary:
Obama - 62 delegates
Clinton - 64 delegates
Texas Caucus:
Obama - 38 delegates
Clinton - 29 delegates
Total:
Obama wins Texas by 7 delegates
What the hell is going on?
Bill Clinton was the same age as Obama with zero foreign policy experience but now Hillary claims her opponent is dangerously unqualified. Carter, Reagan and Bush II had no foreign policy credentials. Why is Obama's campaign allowing this nonsense to stand?
Barack, we know you are a patriot..wear the lapel pin, put your hand on your heart on every occasion you get the chance...take away their shallow talking points.
For once, I agree with RichM (March 5th 12:22 pm) or Alexander Cockburn, as the case may be. Obama laid down when he should have challenged Hillary's past defenses of NAFTA, and her flip-flopping on the issue since she declared for the presidency, even agreeing with her position in the debate that we should keep NAFTA while amending it to protect workers and the environment, etc. It seemed Obama was complacently figuring that he was so far ahead he just needed to avoid making a blunder, rather than confront Hillary. That caution may turn out to be a fatal mistake for his campaign.
Meanwhile, Hillary's desperate tactics have been alienating many Dems and independents who might have voted for her in November, and she's laying a trap for herself in the general election. That 'Red Phone Ad' in which there's no red phone, can be easily turned on her -- who do you want answering the phone at 3:00am during a world crisis -- a tough war hero with military experience or a smiley Shirley Partridge look-a-like with none? 'Leadership' -- McCain will flog her mercilessly with that overstated conceit. If she beats Obama, it will be a Pyrrhic victory as she loses the presidency.
I had planned to vote for Hillary were she the Dem nominee, mainly on the issue of Supreme Court and cabinet appointments, but now I'm not so sure. Her disgusting Rovian tactics, and her smug take-them-for-granted assumption that progressives will vote for her in November no matter what she does, along with her support of the Iraq War and Kyl-Lieberman, present a picture of a candidate who would effectively be little different than a President McCain.
I agree, Kem. My experience is that most people vote against the other candidate or party rather than for someone. It's how Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush 41 and 43 were elected. Nixon made his opponents look worse then him (quite a feat, when you think about it); most Carter voters deplored the fact that Ford had pardoned Nixon; many Reagan voters went with him because Carter had made America look 'weak' in response to the Iran hostages crisis; Bush 41 votes were in reaction to Lee Atwater making Dukakis into an oddball card-carrying ACLU pinko who would let violent criminals out of jail and --thanks, Bernie Shaw! -- wouldn't even try to kill the guy who had just raped and murdered his wife. Clinton was the antidote to hated wimp Bush 41, and Bush 43 was the alternative to the pusillanimous liar Gore and the 'French-looking' flip-flopper Kerry.
Hillary will be framed by the GOP Attack Machine as the greatest liar since Stalin, a 'liberal fascist' wishing to force her socialist programs on the nation, and a social deviant on par with Catherine the Great, along with the right-wing smears that have already ruined her viability with about half of the voting public.
Kem - you do me a disservice. I in no way accused you of being a neocon troll.
Read my comment again. I was accusing you of being beholden to the DLC - Democratic Leadership Committee - who is in turn beholden to the fascist corporate oligarchy controlling our government.
The Clintons were instrumental in its start. The same money that goes to Bilary goes to Obama as well.
Ergo they are not that different and both seem to support a neverending war.
Just my tortured logic - I could be wrong.
With her pro-war votes, her scare-tactic campaigning, her support for and by big corporations... what's the difference between her and McCain? Oh, right. She's a woman. But other than sex, what is the difference between her and McCain? Healthcare? That's a campaign promise. End the war? She's not too keen on that. NAFTA? Talk about a politically motivated flip flop. I'm so turned off by her actions, her performance in the debates and her campaign tactics, I'll never vote for her. NEVER. And I think many people who are excited by what Obama represents (real change from the past two dynasties of Bush and Clinton) these people will lose interest in the race if Obama is shut out through political maneuvering. It is unlikely that Clinton can "Out-Scare" the American public when running against McCain. Her red phone ad is only going to push people into McCain's military arms. Considering her unbelievable name recognition, that she is struggling to win against an unknown... that doesn't speak to well of her leadership abilities. Clinton is a politician. Obama is a leader.
I LOVE that bit about "Republicans should cross party lines and vote for Clinton" as a way to defeat Barack Obama and make the race Clinton vs. McCain. That's what they want for a showdown, which isn't really a showdown at all. I'm afraid that whoever wins, we will all keep losing to the corporate graft that has been the status quo for the last hundred years. Isn't it about time to shake off this slave state and steer our communities towards local, autonomous collectives and cooperatives? We could all benefit instead of a few insiders doing dirty deals to their own benefit and to the benefit of some of the most vile organizations on Earth.
"Democrat, Republican, they're all the same! Two sides of the same coin, two management teams competing for the CEO jobs of Slavery Incorporated!"
Wake up and live free
Somebody here on CD likened the Clintons to bad house guests who never seem to know when to leave. That is a very astute observation.
A similar but better-articulated analysis comes from Alex Cockburn today, who writes,
"...The only way Hillary Clinton can win the nomination is to savage Obama with calumnies, bloodying him to a point where the Clintons can turn make the case to the super delegates in the convention that in a race against McCain Obama has already been fatally wounded.
It's a course to which the Clinton campaign is now totally committed, exactly along the lines advocated by Mark Penn, Hillary's pollster and chief strategist. Penn's policy has been the antithesis of any grand coalition of the kind put together by Roosevelt in the 1930s. Already in south Carolina the Clinton campaign was willing to throw the black vote overboard. In Texas Clinton deliberately exploited Hispanic-black animosities.
Obama has plenty to be rueful about. He managed the astounding feat of being on the defensive in Ohio about trade, at the hands of a Clinton. The history of the late 1980s and 1990s was the Clintons at the head of the Democratic Leadership Council, arguing that the free trade agreements were essential to America's future. Ohio, devastated by job flight was treated to the spectacle of the Obama campaign failing on this very issue, because Obama shrank from making the full case against what Clinton did to working people in the 1990s. He could have slaughtered the Clinton record on Hillary's disastrous effort at health care reform, on the trade agreements, on the welfare bill, on the well- documented fact that the people who did well in the Clinton era were the rich. He was too innately cautious to play the populist card and he paid the price...."
As a former Clinton precinct captain (in '92, and again in '96), you might say that I've since found my sense of humanity re self -- and sense of reality as regards the utter paucity of same in the Democratic version of Bu$hco.
I find the utterly self-serving, truly destructive tactics being employed by this campaign bitterly repugnant. They serve naught but the most base interests of two truly despicable people. I shake my head in amazement that the race has come to this. My daughter -in a stroller at my side in '92- was so enthused about this campaign a month ago. Now? *sigh* Welcome to the ugliness that a mere two families have wrought upon our country for the past quarter-century.
BTW, I'd like to direct people interested in learning more about the intertwined evil of these two clans (Bu$h/Clinton) to consortiumnews.com. Robert Parry has done a boatload of incredible work through the years about these vile parasites attached to our body politic.
Politics is not tiddeley-winks. If one is going to put their name, reputation, voting record, etc into the public forum, they have to be prepared for serious observations and criticism. It's usually not fun and games, often it's a knock down drag out fight. if one is being criticized and it's not true, they only have to say it isn't true and then prove it. They also don't have to sit back and take hammering without hammering back. That's how it is, always has been and always will be.
It should be honest criticism, and if it gets real dirty, the Democrats could end up losing.
One of the most impressive traits of Obama is his ability to dodge a cheap shot while pointing out in clear language that it was a cheap shot. He is savvy and he is aware of what kind of leaders young America wants. He'll make McCain look like a doddering old relic. Unless the Clintons rake up some really stinking muck, he'll win (unless the Repugs find a way to steal the election again).
It's all about the glory of the Clinton's and their legacy. Last night she claimed again 'victory' in the Michigan and Florida primaries even though they don't count. Congrats on ruining the Party, Hillary. You get the nomination and then many like me will switch to voting Independent. Hey Democrat establishment, you could lose a whole generation or two of young voters as a result of the Clinton campaign tactics.
I agree, Mary. Obama is a better feminist. And a better person.
As for those who think Hillary "won" Texas, read this:
http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5206
She is contesting the Texas caucus results in order to stop the results from being broadcast. If you factor in the caucus results, Obama won Texas. But Hillary needs positive headlines today so she can pull some wool over the eyes of those superdelegates who are on the fence. There is nothing beneath this woman. She lies so much, and so well, she even dupes herself. And the media admits that they knows this but they are going along with it, for the turnover in readership. We all know the media don't care about truth-they want controversy-it sells.
As a longtime Nader supporter, I've actually come to realize that, I just might actually vote for the Dems this time, but only for Obama --and Obama WITHOUT the murderous witch HC onboard.
Wow. I think the Dems might have a chance unless the Clintons take them all down... and I THINK that's what is going to happen.
Obama can win. HC will never win the general election. Not gonna happen.
Kathy Heckman, I hope you are right on that but I'm not sure she hasn't already drawn too much blood...She's making the GOP's job very easy for them...On a happier not, Bush is on TV having a love fest with McCain...barf...
Hillary cannot mathematically take the lead in this election based on the popular vote. Everybody knows so but her it seems.
That said, I think this thing will work itself out before the convention. The DNC (yes, those 'ol Supers) are going to have to put a stop to this by endorsing Obama.
The Supers don't want it to go to the Convention, they don't want whatever candidate represents the Dems to be scarred before the nomination by McCain (or their Dem opponent), they don't want to go against the popular vote (really bad for turn out in Nov.), and they know that it is impossible for Hillary to gain the popular vote lead. Repeat: Hillary CANNOT GAIN THE POPULAR VOTE LEAD.
Very ironic that while Hillary is counting on the Superdelegates to make her candidacy, and alot of Obama supporters were against Supersdelegates loading on to Hillary, Obama will win the nomination earlier than the convention BECAUSE OF SUPERDELEGATES.
Go figure.
Hillary helped me make my decision. Before she pushed me in to Obama's camp with her Rovian tactics, she kicked me in the nuts by stripping away my hope of a unified Democratic party. She needs to have a "time out".
If Obama can't beat Hillary in the primaries, how the heck will he beat McCain in the general? If anything, Hillary is doing all of us a favor by going after Obama. It either shows how she'll run (and win) against McCain, or it will allow Obama the ammunition he'll need to run (and win) against McCain. With 70% of independents against the Iraq occupation, I can't see how McCain can make the "successes" in Iraq a winning campaign strategy.