I just had a flash. Bush and cronies have commanded their paid minions in Columbia to do provocative cross border attacks on neighboring states. If one of these states respond's, the corporate press is primed to go into overdrive, painting Ecuador and Venezuela as the agressor's. The confused US masses will swallow the B.S. line and fall into to place as scripted or at least we will be lead to believe they do by the corporate neo-con press. Your typical suck up to the rich everyready [red slate] chumps, phony religious hacks and Rush Limbaugh like pundit's will be foaming at the mouth.
This process is getting boring and costly. It has already ruined this place.

I am Colombian, living in Colombia.

I was born inside the Colombian conflict with the FARC. My country has been fighting a war against this group for over 40 years.

I've worked with the Red Cross for over 10 years and had the opportunity to help and talk to victims of the conflict in lots of small abandoned villages (as someone in this discussion said).

Those who think the FARC are some kind of left-lead group are wrong. Maybe they were at some point but now they are nothing but a cocaine-producer group, that is not willing to negotiate, but keeps the lie they will, in order to mantain an excuse to run their bussiness.

Its not true Colombians don't support their government. President's reelection in Colombia was not possible and peolple voted to change the constitution in order to be able to reelect Uribe who had more support than any president ever had in our national history.

It doesnt have to do with Colombians liking or disliking the US. It has to do with a country tired of the Guerrilla, FARC, ELN, AUC, and the abuses of all this groups, the cruelty, the dead, missing and kidnapped people.

Colombians will support this government as long as it keeps promising that they will give an end to the FARC. Dont forget the over ten millions of Colombians that joined the walk against FARC and pro Uribe last Febuary.

It doesnt mean Colombians agree with all Uribe's politics, but people will support him for being the first president in 40 years who is actually doing something agains those "rebell" groups. We are tired of negotiations. We are tired of presidents like Pastrana who gave a big part of our territory to FARC...

Uribe may be wrong in a lot of things, but he brought hope back to Colombia, he made people belive that there could be an end to this internal war... even if we had to do a lot of sacrifices in social and educational investment.

As for what is happening with Ecuador, we all hope it doesnt come to action. We dont need a war against our neighbours when we already have one in our own Country. But you should have seen people in the streets celebrating Raul Reye's death. Its an asset to Uribe and Colombians see it that way.

(For those in the discussion who think they know a lot and say the others aren't informed: Its Colombia, not Columbia!)

It may be that Colombia's regime is a toady of the American government, that Bush would like to use this incident to topple the governments of Ecuador and Venezuela, that that the CIA or the NSA or the Pentagon helped plan Colombia's strike, that the FARC-Chavez connection is a red herring, etc. The question remains what a FARC unit was doing wandering around freely on Ecuadoran territory. If the Ecuadoran government didn't know they were there, Colombia should have notified them and requested their arrest. If the Ecuadorans knew they were there and took no action, Colombia probably acted appropriately. Harboring a rebel group waging war within another country is a violation of that country's sovereignty. Has everyone forgotten US support for the Contras at war with the Sandanista regime in Nicaragua? I believe they were operating out of Costa Rica and Guatemala. Leftists' ideological affinity with Chavez and the Ecuadoran government and dislike for US imperialism is irrelevant to the rights of Ecuador and Colombia as states.

I am a Colombian national and I find very offensive the believe and commentaries of some contributors in portraying Chavez as a victim of some conspiracy while ignoring his continuous support to a guerrilla movement in order to maintain internal strife in Colombia to rankle the US. While I am a true progressive I deplore those that leave behind their consciences to aid Chavez forgetting that it is him that keeps his citizens hungry, jobless, polarized, and divided in order to hold and stay in power. Shame on you for being so blind.

I'm shocked Hugo is 'taking such bait' from DC...
And, Correa had better 'check any flights' he is taking, or he'll end-up like Torrijos, of Panama (or worse, like Noriega-Moreno!)

The other 'Correa' I am reminded of here was spelled Korea...prior to that 'proxy-war'.
Hugo had best CYA. We are building a base in Suriname now, and have-several on high-alert, already, in Columbia/Peru (where Bushes 'retirement-ranch' sits on a 'to be cleared of natives' 100,000 acres, over a nice aquifer)...
Hugo is the Castro for a neo-Century, and a 'hurricane' he is!

Uribe has the same type of approval ratings as the Decider did circa Sep. 11., as far as the civil war goes. Someone mentioned it previously, but I'll say it again for emphasis. Colombians dislike the FARC a tad bit more than the Army, and this cross border targeted assasination just puts more political capital into Urube's pocket.

I'm really hoping tensions don't rise to action. Ecuador is slowly crawling out of the shadow of IMF/WB policy. I'm too lazy to do research, but I believe Ecuador was spending six percent of it's oil revenue on social services. I think Correa is very close to paying of his nation's loans. After that, hello Bolivarian Revolution. I don't think the super-majors agreed with his policy, and this crisis is the beginning of the U.S., via Colombia, to start bringing democracy to the Andes.

I was thinking about going to Quito in August to study spanish at this cool little language academy downtown. I hope it's still an option 5 months from now.

Interesting, in the chaos that must have ensued in the killing of 21 guerillas, the leader's laptop miraculously survives...

Ridiculous.

"Anyway, I hope what you are saying is true and I hope Colombians get another president who is not a "puppy of the empire"."

The history of Colombia is waves of assassinations and kidnapping and torture aimed at anyone trying to work politically for anything like this.

This is from memory, but I think I remember that in the 1980's the armed insurgents of that time agreed to lay down their arms and to participate in elections instead. Some 4000 got murdered for trying.

So, I'm not sure how the Colombians could possibly get a president who is not a 'puppy of the empire'. After all, we just murdered the rebel leader who was willing to sit down and participate in negotiations. Do you think his replacement will make the same mistake?

Chavez seizes oil assets in Venezuela from Conoco Phillips and Exxon Mobil. Chavez agrees to compensate the oil companies but wants Venezuelan control of Venezuelan oil.

The U.S. responds militarily through its agent Columbia and now has a "smoking gun" or "mushroom cloud" assertion against Chavez.

This stinks.

Lets see if the the Internet can prevent war or at least disseminate truth.

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) makes clear that the US needs to control 4 countries to complete coverage of the whole world. These coiuntries are 2 central asian republics, Iraq, and Colombia. This was decided befoere 9-11. In fact, one could argue that 9-11 was the first phase of launching the project. With the acquisition of Colombia and Iraq the plan is now complete. Colombia now is headed by a US puppet government and Colombians will die to further US aims. The leaders of Colombia will receive their reward and be even richer while the poor of Colombia head toward death to sutain their wealth. The US continues its march toward world domination with the full acquiescence of its people. There is no visible end to the misery the US is intent on producing around the world.

Iraq
Afghanistan
Somalia
Serbia
Cuba

These are present victims of the US

Next up: Venezuela and Ecuador.

Care for some Sushi or shall we just order a pizza?

Well, one part of this is obvious BS.

Why would a laptop from a current FARC commander have any info about money going to Chavez in 1992? I kinda doubt the laptop is so old that it just has some old files about that laying around on it.

---------------------
Like with any country, it depends on who you talk to. Generally, the upper classes are going to be very opposed to a rebel movement like FARC. And generally, the students who have the money to study abroad are from the upper classes. So I'm not at all surprised they didn't have anything good to say about FARC.

Try going to Colombia and talking to the peasants in some remote village. You might get a different point of view.

-------------------
We've been training Latin American soldiers to be our proxy army for decades. The School of the Americas is another well-known part of that effort. We've been fighting a war by proxy in various ways in the region ever since JFK was pushing the idea of 'counter-insurgency'. Probably longer than that.

From John Perkin's book "The Secret History of the American Empire" (2007), page 149:

"...as a result of [the book] Confessions [of an Economic Hit man]...several members of the U.S. armed forces approached me with accounts of maneuvers on Colombian soil aimed at a military invasion of Venezuela. Like Brett, they were deeply concerned about the course their country was taking: they did not dare go public but they wanted the American people to hear about their experiences.

Colombia is the glaring exception to the hemispheric anti-corporatocracy movements. It has maintained its position as Washington's surrogate. Shored up by massive taxpayer assistance and armies of corporate sponsored mercenaries, as well as formal U.S. military support, it has become the keystone in Washington's attempts to regain regional domination. Although official justification for U.S. involvement centers on drug wars, this is a subterfuge for protecting oil interests against grassroots opposition to foreign exploitation."

...[the U.S. soldiers asserted that the real reasons they have been stationed in Colombia were to establish a U.S. presence and to train Latin soldiers as part of a United States commanded Southern Unified Army (a term two of the three used)."

Get the book and read it. We're going back to war-by-proxy against the uppity Latin leaders. The U.S.-sponsored coup against Chavez failed, and now were seeing Bush's Plan B.

elmysterio March 5th, 2008 4:32 pm

These dem voters don't care about change. They care about the illusion of change. They need something to delude themselves for 4 years, possibly 8 - and what do you know, the same problems will exist.

It's the same attitude the republicans have had for the past 7-8 years. Though now they can't really ignore it. The economy is goin downhill, we're still bogged down occupying Iraq...But one thing they do selectively ignore is the whole larger government, expanded exec powers, spying etc.

This ones got it all, oil, drugs (looks like Bush and Uribe have been sampling the goods). How ruthless can it get; when all the involved parties recently were engaged in successful negotiations to release hostages; a brutal provocation.

The u.s. governments policy is to prevent peace.

I've been saying since the beginning, and I'll say it again... YOU CAN'T COUNT ON OBAMA OR CLINTON TO CHANGE ANYTHING. They are in the pockets of the corporate masters and AIPAC JUST as much as the rest of the evil ruling class. There is no HOPE in Obama... no PEACE in CLINTON... face it, you're fucked either way. Nothing is going to change until the empire implodes into itself.

This aggression by Colombia and the US is likely aimed at Ecuador's assertion of its sovereignty over its oil, not just its territory. The border region is vital to oil exploration and transport. See http://phillipbannowsky.com/Motherearth.htm for a prescient account of how oil lubricates all conflicts in Ecuador.

This just provides more evidence that the future welfare of the human race, and probably even its very survival, depends on the collapse of the US empire.

Since Bush has been doing everything in his power to accelerate that collapse, is he really going to be damned by history? If the collapse does occur soon, will Bush be seen as a hapless and disturbed simpleton who inadvertently saved the human race through his imprudent ruthlessness?

Hope springs eternal.

lwhunt330: "If we are lucky, the good people of Columbia will not tolerate their country becoming a US puppet. Most Columbians dislike the US as much as the rest of South America. Hopefully sanity will prevail."

In college, only a few years ago, I used to hang out with a group of Columbians and we talked politics quite a bit. Could be just my individual experience, but they had MUCH worse things to say about FARC than about their government, even as a puppet.

I echo your hope for sanity ...though this is made difficult when there's a guy with as big a mouth as that of Sr. Chavez. Where's the King of Spain when we need him?

lwhunt330,
So far I have never met either a Colombian or Venezuelan who opposes the US. Maybe is because those I've met are not in their country of origin and feel superior than the poor people who support Chavez or Correa, who knows.
Anyway, I hope what you are saying is true and I hope Colombians get another president who is not a "puppy of the empire".

spartacus,
You've made an excellent analysis, I believe what you say makes a lot of sense, thank you.

"Plan Colombia."

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/bush-cheney-drugs.htm

If we are lucky, the good people of Columbia will not tolerate their country becoming a US puppet. Most Columbians dislike the US as much as the rest of South America. Hopefully sanity will prevail.

This should teach Chavez to tweak the US where it hurts.

You must admit, it has only taken a week to put another WMD scenario into action after Chavez made threats to shut down the oil to US.

For those who have not been following Uribe he is nothing more than the Western Hemisphere Saddam ( when he was our guy starting a war with Iran at our behest).

Now we have manufactured an excuse and backed another pre-emptive invasion of a sovereign state.

We are once again backing the fascist strong-arm leader against a democratically elected government.

I should not be surprised since this US policy started in this Hemisphere (google Smedley Butler).

We exported it to the Middle East, honed it and now are applying it again in its birthplace.

US and puppets against the world.

The group of elites controlling the US government is the planet's pre-eminent class war aggressor and supports every proxy it can find to help wage its class war against the rabble. Washington is the group's political center, neoliberal capitalism is its economic framework, and Clintok, O'Bama or Mkkkain will be its next royal puppet. Columbia is the group's proxy in Latin America. Chavez and Castro are two of its key targets because they are the most visible champions of the rabble. But the rabble is learning to make each individual a champion, which enables the rabble to non-violently defeat all groups of elites, the class war aggressors.

A bad situation gets worse. I believe stronly in the government being set up by Hugo Chavez, but military might can never be an acceptable answer althought this clearly represents a defensive action rather than an offensive "pre-emptive" strategy.

It appears to be linked to a "free-trade" vote coming up in Congress as well as a manipulated propoganda campaign against the leftist movement in Latin America. I hope Chavez has the strenght to defend his borders without actually using military force and the wisdom to show the U.S. a better way to solve conflict.

Unfortunately, with the U.S. calling the shots in Columbia, the appeal to nationalism (fascism) advocated by Bush could indeed lead to a military incident but is most likely being used to advance a faulty UN resolution condemning Ecuador and Venezuela as states supporting terrorism in the hopes of undermining their truly democratically elected governments in favor of U.S. backed stooges.

We really need to bring down this paper empire!

'ZOZO is back

Something worth noting is the reaction of the two Democratic contenders for the party's candidacy in the presidential election.

Read a comment on their responses by Robert Naiman at Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/obama-glosses-colombian-a_b_89836.html

I interpret Clinton's comments on the Equadorian incursion as knee jerk and catering to the expectations her assumed supporters. I expect that we'll experience greater confrontation with Iran in her presidency, a pardoning of the telcos, the continued use of presidential signing statements, continued internal spying in the US, and a solution to the sub-prime and soon to be prime mortgage crises which will exclusively benefit the lenders.

Reyes was the key to hostage release and to negotiation. This is more Bush foreign policy through surrogates. Expect more of the same in a Clinton White House. Most of the primary voters, Democrat, independent, or Republican wouldn't have a clue with respect to what I'm writing about. The general ignorance in matters of the world among the greater part of the population of the US will be the undoing of this nation's Constitution and of its social, economic and cultural orders.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but don't count on moderation from Hillary and Obama. Here's how Hillary and Obama responded: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/05/7482/

Hillary response is just as bad as the Bush Administration's. It's got neocon written all over it. She defended Uribe the murderer and accused Chavez of "terrorism". How is Hillary's foreign policy different than Bush's might I ask? Obama (while admittedly more restrained the Hillary) admonished Ecuador and Venezulea not to ratchet up tensions. He should tell that to Colombia. Oh I forgot, Uribe's our "ally". He can do anything he wants. Never mind that Ecuador's sovereignty was grossly violated. I hope FARC, Chavez, Morales, and Correa prevail.

Columbia has made threatening moves toward Venezueala including border incursions prior to this. This is indeed the old US lacky leadership versus the new progressive wave in South America. It comes at a bad time for the Imperialsists though as we've blown our wad in Iraq. The Empire is not in a position or underwrite war or to intervene militarily.

Has anyone else noticed that Sr. Reyes was sleeping in a tent out in the jungle, risking his life beside his men?

The US government says that FARC has become a cocaine cartel. They claim that the leaders are utterly amoral people motivated by pure greed, just like the Americans.

During the last seven years, we have all had ample opportunity to observe the behavior of billionare sociopaths, and this isn't typical of the breed.

I don't see Dick Cheney risking his tender skin along with his soldiers in Iraq, nor would I hold my breath waiting for him to do it!

Columbia is a puppet regime of American imperialism. It's not surprising that it would do what it did. Bush is looking for any excuse to go to war in South America against the progressive forces there. Hillary and Obama will support the Evil Empire which acts in the interests of the corporate elite. Where are the "progressives" lining up on this issue? They're debating amongst themselves whether Hillary or Obama should be supported. What a bunch of worthless idiots. It's no wonder that the rest of the world has to live with the cruelty of American Imperialism.

"However, Colombia's president, Álvaro Uribe, received strong support yesterday from President George Bush and hit back with a series of claims, including allegations of close collusion between Farc and the Ecuadorean and Venezuelan leaders".

The above of story of alleged clusion between Chavez and FARC sounds alot the Bush adminstation, stove calling the kettle black.
Read the following.

"The Gaza Bombshell"

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19458.htm

I am sure Exxon and the big oil corporatocracy has nothing to do with this.

This could be the beginning of the war-by-proxy against the rise of the South American Left. Bush, Sarkozy,Uribe et.al. linking Chavez, Morales, and Correa to Islamo-Fascists and Al-Quaeda. This could be the beginning of WWIII, "the beginning of the end of the beginning of the end et. cetera... et. cetera... so on and so forth." I hope we can make it to Jan. 20th and either Obama or Clinton is sane enough to roll back the neo-con foreign policy of belligerence.

Well if this all doesn't smell fishy....

"I hope we can make it to Jan. 20th and either Obama or Clinton is sane enough to roll back the neo-con foreign policy of belligerence."

A forlorn hope, unfortunately.

As Chavez pointed out, the US is setting up Colombia to be the Israel of Latin America.

This analogy is even more exact if you recall that back in 1967 and 1972, the "threat" in the Middle East was a progressive, pan-Arab Socialist movement typified by Nasser in Egypt and the PFLP in Palestine. Islamism didn't exist, and only arose to fill the gap of despair when the Arab socialist aspirations were crushed.

I wonder how much Venezuela paid to free all those Colombians? Now narc bites the hand that freeds it?

angegarciamv March 5th, 2008 7:20 pm
I am Colombian, living in Colombia

Your argument makes sense but why is everyone condemning Chavez? Do you condone military action in other countries without the consent of those countries. If you guy's were smart you would tell the CIA and US miliary to leave and clean up the problem yourselves.

Venezuela and Ecuador have every right to defend their borders from military incursions, invasions etc. from Colombia or anyone else. Colombia is the regional troublemaker, not Chavez or Correa. Chavez and Correa are defending their regional sovereignty and their legitimate governance based on regional solidarity, anti-imperialism and social betterment for all, especially the poor.

I will stray from my left brothers on the question of FARC - I oppose violent resistance, especially one that has brewed 40 years of civil war. Nevertheless, FARC's crimes pale in comparison to Colombia's state-sanctioned murder of unionists, activists and leftist politicians.

Dump Uribe! He's an imperialist criminal!
Viva Chavez, viva Correa

You're right, but we cant. On the one hand we didn't have enough economic resources to kepp fighting against FARC. Uribe needed money in order to keep his commitment to the Colombians of fighting the Gurrilla.
USA gave him the money for that and in was called "Plan Colombia". We know the USA has other interests in Colombia besides fighting the drug-cartels, but the money and the support (i.e. guns, military training, weapons, etc) of the US is the only way to keep the fight against FARC and ELN. Many Colombians are against US politics, but many more are against FARC, so thats all people are thinking about right now.

Colombians are so tired of FARC and ELN, that they support a President who basically sold the country to the US, but anything sounds less bad than to continue with thin unending war.

It would be impossible to sustain this internal war without US help. The FARC and ELN do have financial suppor from drug-cartels and citizen paying them to free their kidnapped family members.
The government does not have any other way to financiate the war besides accepting US money.

We don't condone military action in Ecuador, but the Ecuatorian government knew about the guerrilla-camps in their territory and didnt do anything. Colombia apologyzed for the military invasion and offered to pay for the damage, but it cant be ignored that those were not poor people attacked during their sleep. They were guerrilla members that have killed, violated, kidnapped and abused thousands of Colombians. Chavez is trying to make them look like some kind of Che Guevara guerrilla which they are not.
They have no support from Colombians, except for those involved in drug cartels. They do not represent the interest of any civilian group. They just run a bussiness... an illegal one.

Buncha fucking freaks. They need to learn how to play nice. Or else we'll show em, won't we George? George?

Dear Colombians,

[Uribe] brought hope back to Colombia, he made people belive that there could be an end to this internal war… even if we had to do a lot of sacrifices in social and educational investment."

That's not why social and educational investment is being sacrificed! Social programs are being sacrificed on the altar of neoliberal capitalist privatization!

If Uribe is so good, has he solved any of the political-economic murders of those over 800 union organizers yet?

"it is him [Chavez] that keeps his citizens hungry, jobless, polarized, and divided in order to hold and stay in power. "

Isn't the capitalist bosses in Venezuela, with CIA help, who are creating the artificial food shortages, just like their phony PDVSA strike?

Isn't it the rich Venezuelan elites and their right wing media (with more CIA help, of course) that are the source of all the polarization and divisiveness?

And I guess the Caracazo food riots under the neoliberal IMF stooge Carlos Andres Perez were times of Venezuelan unity?

But I agree, FARC lost their ligitimacy a long time ago.

Just the same, these attacks constituted an extrajudicial execution. They could have been captured and tried.

And, considering delicate hostage release negations were underway by third countries was it a smart thing to do anyway?

As a leftist and labor union member, if I were a Colombian, I would be more afraid of my anti-union, capitalist bosses hit man than FARC.

Venezuela is to the East of Columbia. This sort of sloppy reporting is just the sort of reporting likely to alarm the Brazilians. And if one is to insist that one is north of the other then I'd say Columbia extends further north than Venezuela. So how Venezuela forces could be massing on Columbia's northern border is beyond me.

If you read analysis of groups engaged in guerrilla warfare, they can only survive, particularly as long as FARC has survived, if they have the support of the population around them

Again I remind you that this struggle in South America for independence from American hegemony is much more deeply rooted than a simple leftist socialist explanation. Unlike the U.S. Indigenous Peoples in South America make up a majority of people in many states. The recent passage of the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples highlights the efforts of the Indigenous to reclaim their sovereignty after five hundred years of Euro/American political and economic dominance in the region. The Indigenous world view is now again dominant in much of the region among the Indigenous Peoples. It forms the foundation of cooperative and not competitive lifeways whose roots go back over thirteen thousand years. If it could not be ended in five hundred years of genocide, it is not going to end. People there are not in the mood to take orders from Uncle Sam anymore and will fight to the death to defend and recover their historic rights to their land and culture. America is too ignorant and callous to care, and therein lies America's weakness. Bush is a pitiful president whose comprehension reaches no further than his Texas ego and bank account. He is a war monger and a war criminal in my opinion. It is the responsibility of the Indigenous nations to oppose Bush, Columbia, and the U.S. They take it very seriously.

NRA: It wasn't a dispute, it was an attack on another nation's territory. That's a no no but you don't seem to grasp that. Ecuador wasn't harboring anybody. Venezuela sent troops to make a point, Colombia broke the law to make a point. Both presidents are popular. The press is free in Venezuela, not Colombia. This is all a show sponsored by George Bush. Chavez is a good guy, Uribe is not. The people of Colombia are desperate for an end to violence and have turned against the guerrilla, believing they don't stand for anything but pillaging. But is the perception correct, or a media creation?.

Save your breath, lizard.

Anyone who calls him/herself NRA Freedom ain't about to hear what you say or much less care.

This person sounds like one the DynCorp International press agents justifying poisoning the farmers in the South.

Of course the fascist Bush Administration supports the right-wing Columbian dictator. The US has always supported right-wing regimes and toppled or attempted to topple legitimately elected left-wing governments in Central and South America.

The US is the biggest rogue nation.

Lets see, AL-Queda, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Kosovo, North Korea, Syria, various pipelines and the need to keep Russia and China in line. There will not be too much support militarily from the US other than hardware, and that is in short supply. The US military is occupied elsewhere, is in need of refurbishment, and a decade of rest and relaxation. The Neo-con thinking is overplaying the US military.

NRA, Check out the history of the US in South America. I know you won't. You are resolutely ignorant.