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Ralph Nader Is Not Simply a Spoiler
Ralph Nader, who created the genre of consumer advocate, once again will enter politics to run for president. No one has done more to enhance what capitalism is supposed to rely on and encourage - the informed consumer. His activism has been necessary because U.S. capitalism is increasingly morphing into a system whereby the privileged use government and manipulate information to retain their own power. It is class war by the rich.
Nader has moved from consumer activist to presidential candidate because our political process itself reflects and enables our sclerotic and crony-dominated economy. Our major parties, like brand names, too often offer little more than differences in emphasis, style and logos. Mainstream Democrats attack Bush, but they have failed to stake out clear alternative grounds on hedge fund income, trade policy, the Iraq occupation or the rights of labor to organize collectively in response to growing corporate dominance and consolidation.
Yet having said these things, I plan to join my Democratic friends in voting for Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton in November. Both major parties are too heavily dependent on corporate support, but corporate elites do not constitute a monolith. At least some important business interests now understand that health care is a drag on U.S. competitiveness, that the days of accessible oil and escalating balance of payments deficits cannot go on forever, and that war costs and no-bid contracts for crony friends are creating tangible barriers to their own expansion. Many of these outsiders may share with corporate insiders an antipathy to taxes and fear of unions, but they cannot abide the direction of the U.S. economy.
Both Clinton and Obama are more likely to scale back U.S. occupation of Iraq. Each is more likely at least to place the issues of poverty and the economic security of the middle class on the table. The coalitions Democrats must foster to win require attention to anti-occupation and social justice advocates.
Under our electoral system, minority candidates have no chance of winning nor even of producing the kind of gains proportional representation systems allow. Obama, Clinton or John McCain is going to be our next president and it does make a difference. I will not, however, join some of my Democratic friends in bashing Ralph Nader for running again. Nader's candidacy may benefit Obama or Clinton.
I remain unconvinced that Nader "cost" Al Gore the presidency. Without Nader in 2000, voter participation and voter awareness of issues would have been substantially less. Nader consistently polled around 5 percent of the electorate in the run-up to the election, while receiving only about half that total on Election Day. In addition, tracking polls during the run-up to the election suggest that during those points in the campaign when Gore strove to pre-empt Nader's populist themes, he achieved his highest support.
It appears likely that some voters became interested in politics because Nader spoke more directly and believably to their concerns than either major candidate. Nonetheless, on voting day many accepted the realities of our electoral system and voted for Gore. Many of these voters would have been at home and turned off by politics on Election Day but for Nader's entry into the race.
Obama or Clinton is unlikely to win without mobilizing the Democratic base. Obama seems to have excited a core of youthful supporters, but McCain, despite his pro-war rhetoric and his right-wing economic agenda, carries the image of a maverick. Both McCain and the corporate media will endlessly bash Clinton or Obama as radicals who will destroy the economy. McCain also will strive mightily to energize the social right around abortion and gay rights. A move by the Democrat to the center will not address the growing insecurity experienced by so many today or the deep concerns about the war. And it will fail to excite the activist base of the party whose get-out-the-vote initiatives will be vital on Election Day.
Democrats are unlikely to win a general election on vacuous calls for change. They must speak to grievances in believable ways and suggest responses that resonate with our citizens. Contrary to the corporate media, Medicare for all, rapid withdrawal from Iraq, and even the right to organize to bargain collectively are not radical in terms of our history nor as measured by many polls. Nader can force either Clinton or Obama to articulate a clear and believable alternative to McCain.
Obama's initial response to Nader was healthy: "The job of the Democratic Party is to be so compelling that a few percentage [points] of the vote going to another candidate is not going to make any difference." The eventual Democratic nominee should join Nader in demanding that TV debates include the consumer advocate. Along with commitments on health, trade and labor, this would show that the Democrat is a genuine democrat and would appeal to a sense of fairness most Americans hold.




110 Comments so far
Show AllCentrism is a direct function of corruption.
"Far Left" has been re-defined as opposition to stupid wars, neo-liberalism and imperialism... no matter how conservative one is otherwise.
Being a good conservative is now measured by loyalty to Bush or, in the future, being pro-war.
Coalition building is old fashioned politics; finding shared beliefs and common ground with groups that are otherwise political opponents.
There is are huge disaffections of social conservatives and fiscal conservatives, with the GOP. Many of these folks are against the war. Many of them believe Al Gore. Most of them would support public campaign financing. They are also BIG supporters of Internet neutrality.
The progressive, anti-war base of the Democratic Party has been progressively, systematically marginalized by the Party Gentry, fully in the pockets of the same forces that organize the new GOP. Cycle after election cycle, the Party Insiders trot out these pasty faced Eastern Seaboard, corporate "liberal" losers. The only ones they ever bring that win, are Southern Dems like Clinton, with the used car salesman smile and the shady, backroom machinations of their monied backers.
I have empathy with lots of these folks on both ends of the political spectrum... on some of THEIR pet issues. I'm an "impure" progressive. I even have some... libertarian sympathies.
Half the elegible voters don't even register. I question whether this is really APATHY or the passionate CONVICTION, that money trumps their vote so consistently, their vote is meaningless.
Now we have a pro-war Dem and pro-immigration, pro-choice Republican, vying for the favor of the imaginary "average" voter. Good grief.
Ya'all seem to want what you want when you want it... or you're going to take your marbles and run home... maybe snitch to the teacher.
When I say "kma," I want you to know I mean it in the best possible way. Sorry about beating you up after school.
Kucinich is a good democrat and a winner in his own right. He, with a grassroots backing, beautiful wife and celebrities couldnt break through the Barriers. But Nader, the lone crier will on his next (again) try, succeed in The Presidency? Y'all are more religious than me. Or better gamblers or something.
I really do believe Mr. Nader has much good in him. I just wish he would have a clear, focused vision that doesnt aim at Being President. As much as we all want him OR Kucinich and the small handful of true Leaders, short of an act of God/ Goddess this isnt going to happen. Now, Cindy Sheehan running for Congress or Senate is Brilliant! Mr. Nader, go counsel with Ms. Sheehan and come up with a better plan that we can really all get behind. Thanks. Peace.
Go Ralph!
"I'm really disheartened by how many that call themselves progressives debate like their on a lefty version of FOX news"
Ditto that. Well said.
Thanks for the post realitychecker.
What many here that threaten to not vote for the dems this election don't understand is that the third party idea only works this time around, in a vacuum. unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum. Democracy is a decision by the majority of the people, and that majority isn't aware that Nader, or DK, or Gravel are the best choices.
Change comes from the power to make change which comes from a majority to put the power in place to make change, period. 08 does not have the potential such an outcome. The future will if we work for it.
As far as Clinton being as bad as Bush for Kosovo and the sanctions on Iraq? That was the UN. He did resist in 99 when the UN pushed for lifting sanctions, but that's hardly the same as Bush. Also how much money did Clinton's corporations make from Iraq and Kosovo? Besides if you are concerned about the lives of Iraqis you should be supporting ours or someone's presence there, because if we walked out now and no UN peacekeeping force moved in, it would be mass slaughter. I have a friend who's from there and still has family there.
I'm really disheartened by how many that call themselves progressives debate like their on a lefty version of FOX news, and have little knowledge of our political system as it stands, and that it really is more about us than looking to one person saviors they think will save us.
We need a more representative government. I prefer Parliamentary systems, with no presidents of any real power at all, which are far more democratic. That's going to be a hell of a lot harder to push for under McCain, and a 2-3 seat more Republican Supreme court.
I'm also not going to sit home this election because there's not a Social Democrat on the ticket.
Common Dreams,
Thank you for this discussion! I think I have finally found at least a few souls out there who are willing to engage in a discussion about what may be the most important issue that progressives must deal with, and the sooner the better. (The following includes excerpts from a letter I sent to 2 "Progressive" publications in Sep. '07. Neither one printed it in whole.)
How do we get a truly progressive agenda incorporated into the laws enacted and the policies pursued by our elected officials? My answer is rather simple; by voting for progressive candidates, no matter what decal they wear on their shirts. We can march 'til our shoes wear out, write 'til our pens run dry, call 'til our tongues crack and our ears fall off, but in the end, if we do not vote for the progressive candidate, we will be like the farmer who spends all day milking the cows and then kicks the bucket over.
Regarding the '00 election: Instead of putting blame where it is due, some still choose to castigate one of the best and most progressive public servants of our time. But ask yourself whose purpose is best served by belittling, dismissing or otherwise denigrating truly progressive candidates.
Think about it. The Dems have made their political fortunes (literally) over at least the last 15 years by adopting a corporate and, arguably, conservative agenda - NAFTA, WTO, DOMA, welfare "reform", managed health care, Don't ask, Don't tell, fiscal "responsibility". They have supported, furthered, or otherwise caved into, this awful war, illegal wiretapping, lousy Supreme Court appointments, tax cuts for the rich, etc., etc, etc. and their coffers swell. Within this comfortable scenario the appearance of progressive candidates scares them to death. Witness their reaction to Nader. They expended Herculean efforts to keep him out of the debates and off the ballot. Why didn't they simply neutralize him by promoting a progressive agenda of their own? Quite simply because they are addicted to corporate money and adopting a progressive agenda or promoting a progressive candidate would mean having to kick the habit, a habit more addictive than cocaine. So each and every time elections role around, when it looks like there might be someone either in their own wings like Kucinich, or on the outside like Nader, who offers the electorate a truly progressive choice, they spread the word that he is "unelectable" or a "spoiler" who will ruin the Dems chances, and that would be just awful, now wouldn't it? And, each and every time, we chicken out, abandon the progressive and select another corporate Dem. Oh we grumble all right when our choices prove feckless, but then we find excuses for them, turn around and do it again; we march in Seattle then support free trader Gore, we march in New York, then support pro war Kerry. The Dems get our votes and get to keep their loot, too. How delicious! They're laughing at us, folks. We are such suckers. They know that all they have to do is shout "Republican ahead!" and we will scurry under the "protective" wing of any old Democrat they care to put up, no matter how corporate addicted he/she is. Granted, some of these Rep. are pretty bad indeed, but does this mean that we must keep giving addicted Dem. "relatives" our support, knowing they are using it for drugs, justifying our support by saying "Well at least our relatives are only doing coke, theirs (Rep) are doing meth!", while at the same time tossing out our clean Prog. siblings? How far we have fallen from progressives of old!
The Right Wing got control of the Rep. Party by making it quite clear that they would abandon it if it didn't adopt their agenda. If Progressives ever have a prayer of detoxifying the Dem. Party, let alone the country, we must do the same. We lost our chance to advance the movement in '96 (post NAFTA), sacrificing long term goals for short term gain (typical corporate thinking). We blew it again in '00 and '04. How many more times will we sacrifice our principles in our desire to "win"? If our representatives are spineless, it is because we are. And, adding insult to injury, the ultimate irony is that, at the end of all our triangulating, sacrificing principles for an "electable" candidate was our undoing. But that, too, was predictable - Dems lost in '00 and '04 because too many Dem. or Indep. "just plain folk", rightly perceiving that the Dem. candidate had no principles and offered nothing of real value to their lives, their jobs, their health or welfare, simply stayed home. They understood that even if the Dems won, they still lost. Who do you suppose really made Bush, et.al. possible? By failing to produce a real alternative, we did.
Remember, anyone who is 35 or older and is born a US citizen is indeed "electable". Of those who fall within these parameters, the only ones who "can't" be elected are the ones we don't vote for; if you want a progressive, vote for one and convince others to. Otherwise vote for the rest of the pack, spread the rumor that the progressive is "unelectable" or that he/she is "spoiling" it for the pack and spend the next years writing letters to the editor complaining about how terrible things are and either excusing your "electable" pack for their obvious (but predictable) failures or expressing your obvious (but predictable) disappointment in them. Then do it all over again. But isn't that the definition of insanity?
So, in the name of sanity if nothing else, we must make it clear that to cross the 90 foot chasms before us, we need the man or woman who will help us build 90 foot bridges and that nothing less will do; 20 footers (Clinton/Obama) are no more acceptable than 10 footers (Rep} - for at the end of either, we will still fall off the edge. In the Dem. primaries we had, until Kucinich left, the opportunity to be both Dem. and Progressive. Now will have to choose between the two. And not until enough of us choose the latter will the former understand that they must reform; all the money in the world will do the Dems no good if we refuse them the vote. And all the Dems in the world will do us no good if they refuse to detox.
Our civic, as well as our physical, bridges need to be repaired/replaced, not simply painted over with corporate financed political rhetoric. Whichever metaphor you chose, the longer we wait for detoxification/reconstruction, the worse it gets. So I supported Kucinich, again. But, in its wonderful corporate wisdom, the Dem. party, in picking one of their "electable" chosen is abandoning us, again. And when I say "us" I don't mean the "lunatic fringe", I mean the American people whose problems will not be addressed in any meaningful way by the candidate of either major party. So I will abandon them in turn and support a true progressive of whatever stripe. I ask you, not merely to do the same, but to make it clear to the powers that be that that is, in fact, what you will do. If the threat is credible enough, that may be all you will need to do. If you don't you will get more of the same, I guarantee you - for the force of money addiction is more powerful than marches, sit-ins and petitions directed at them or even logic, evidence and reason presented to them. It can only be overcome by our conviction, as manifested in our vote, and, yes, faith, the faith that if we stick to our guns and consistently vote our principles, the right (as opposed to The Right) will win. It may take a while, but, I'm sorry, it can be done in no other way.
How does that go again - first they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then they insult you, then they persecute you, then you win. So I don't really mind being insulted.......
from H20
sorry about the double post!
WE, The People, need to think about replacing the oppressive, self serving government we "enjoy" today.
We need to devise a new system which can embrace Ralph's suggestions and MORE!
www.PeopleForANewSociety.org
Having Ralph in the race may in fact help the dims recognize the wisdom in progressive solutions. If so and the dims act on it they could yet landslide the repugs.
Brace yourself.
Nader talks about things other candidates dont. Look at his new Counterpunch article on prince Harry and why Bush isnt getting his daughters to serve in Iraq.
hey look, the letters n-a-d-e-r headlining yet another article. hurry everyone, get your comments posted now before the other 14,392 arrive.
thanks, john buell, for a fair, balanced, non-emotional article. well written. now, everyone, post your emotions.
Before too long we could be faced with the choice between a right wing hawk democrat Hillary Clinton against a hawk republican McCain and Ralph Nader may indeed be relevant once again.
just what we need---another article rejecting the myriad real-world accomplishments of ralph nader and grasping at the flimsy resumes of two corporate hacks, based on what the author BELIEVES one or the other will do if elected.
lose the theology, mr. buell. evidence abounds to disprove your faith.
Ralph Nader had nothing to do with the 5-4 vote by the Supreme Court that gave Bush the presidency in 2000, or the voter fraud in Florida that set up this crime. If the Democrats can't win a decisive victor over the Republicans who have had 7 years of incompetence, corruption, debasing of the Constitution, and destruction of the US economy, they don't deserve to ever win any election again. It is time to form a third or fourth party in this country.
The Democrats don't deserve to win another election, but the Republicans do?
re mairs 1:21pm
well, yes. the Rs will fight for victory. the Ds won't.
If the company has to choose between a white guy and either a woman or a minority male - guess who wins.
Also, all I can say that unless Obama and/or Clinton change their spots, Nader is still the only game in town for progressives.
I wish people would spend their energy getting one of them to address progressive issues instead of swallowing the claptrap of the Democratic leadership's 'lose at any cost' campaign to nowhere.
Generally on point but kind of forgot to close the loop on the 2000 logic. Nobody is questioning whether Nader brought more voters into the process than would have participated without him. Nobody is questioning whether Nader helped to pull Gore ever so slightly left. Those are both very good things Nader accomplished in 2000. The problem is that he failed to do what he could to stop Bush by unreservedly urging his voters to vote for Gore.
Simple math folks; Nader got 97,000 votes in Florida. Gore "lost" Florida by a few hundred. Nader could have stopped it. He didn't. He is responsible.
Does Gore deserve the lion's share of the responsibility for the outcome in 2000? Quite possibly - the media, the Republican dirty tricks and the sonambulant public who thought having a beer with Bush was the overriding concern also deserve their share. But so does Ralph.
Responsibility very rarely falls entirely on one party. To say Ralph is responsible for Bush is not the same as saying Gore isn't. They both are.
Quite frankly, I think Nader is going to be a nonfactor this time around. His act is worn out. And that's too bad because we need someone who can wake people up and either create a VIABLE third party or pull the Democratic party onto a progressive track.
The best thing for the 'democratic' party may be to have someone who is really addressing popular issues to decisively threaten its victory. That way, it could no longer take the 'progressive' vote for granted, which it does now. The dems know that many are not so much voting FOR them as AGAINST the republican. This means we really do not have any 'choice' at all, or only a pitiable one. Why do we settle for this state of affairs, election after election. The answer is FEAR.
Thank you for the wonderful article but I suggest changing the title from:
Ralph Nader Is Not Simply a Spoiler
to:
Ralph Nader Is Simply Not a Spoiler
I voted for him last time. I'll do it again. And as this article points out, Nader or the people who vote for him are not spoiling anything. This is supposed to be a democrary. I'm still dissappointed that Kuchinich dropped out. I say, "Anyone who has the ability and resources to run should be allowed to do so on an equal footing with all the other candidates." I say, "Get rid of the primary system. It's undemocratic."
OK. Back to reality: I predict that in two years, regardless of who really becomes president in November, we will all be reading articles about why USA continues to escalate foreign wars.
re brissot 1:55pm
i notice you don't mention the 200,000 registered dems in florida who voted for bush. why is that? are they less responsible than nader?
The US may soon be unable to fund ANY wars. I wonder if the rest of the world is hoping for this?
Informed and honest people know that Ralph Nader is a beacon of intelligence and integrity, and is right on essentially all the issues facing our country. Of course Nader should run, and press those issues. If he is allowed to debate the other candidates on television he will have a great chance to win. In any event, Progressives must ultimately decide whether to vote for Nader in November, or to vote for the "least-worst" candidate, the Democratic nominee.
I personally want to make an informed decision. I worked for weeks to compile a table of information on each of the candidates' positions on the issues. I dug deep into debate transcripts, candidates' websites, public watchdog websites, corporate and alternative media accounts, books and voting records. On each issue, I tried to summarize the candidates' positions fairly, but this became frustrating because the candidates so often hedged, taking both sides of an issue. I found the candidates taking one position, and then later reversing themselves.
Over time, I realized the most reliable information came from the U.S. Senate website, which provides transcripts of debates on the Senate floor and records of all votes taken.
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/a_three_sections_with_teasers/votes.htm
Ultimately, I compiled a table of major issues that actually came up for a vote in the Senate during the last three years (when the major candidates, Clinton, Obama and McCain were Senators). I had no preconceived notion on how the candidates' voting records would compare, except that I assumed McCain's record would be the worst. The results have been surprising, to say the least. I now view all the campaign rhetoric and media accounts through the lens of the candidates' Senate voting records.
For example I know that John Buell's comment that "both Clinton and Obama are more likely to scale back U.S. occupation of Iraq" is true, but I also know that Clinton is acutally MORE likely than Obama to do so. See vote #12, below.
Overall, on the basis of actual voting records, Clinton would be a much better President than Obama. I will consider voting for in November. If Obama is the nominee, I will vote for Nader.
CANDIDATES' VOTING RECORDS COMPARED (updated March 4, 2008)
Here's how they voted:
(1) Confirmation of Condoleeza Rice to be Secretary of State
Vote taken: 1/26/2005
Analysis: Neo-con, war criminal
Clinton: Yes, Obama: Yes, McCain: Yes
(2) Tort "reform" (Class Action Fairness Act of 2005)
Vote taken: 2/10/2005
Analysis: Opposed by more than 68 consumer, civil rights, environmental and labor groups, it was described as the "final [Republican] payback to the tobacco, asbestos, oil and chemical industries, at the expense of ordinary families whose health has been compromised."
Clinton: No, Obama: Yes, McCain: Yes
(3) Dayton Amendment (S.Amdt. 31) to the 2005 Bankruptcy Act
Vote taken: 3/3/2005
Analysis: Would cap credit card interest rates at 30%. Senator Dayton provided examples of predatory lenders charging vulnerable people more than 1000%/year interest. Republicans argued that "free-markets" should set interest rates, and government should not interfere.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: No, McCain: No
(4) Energy Policy Act of 2005
Vote taken: 7/29/2005
Analysis: A corporate-welfare bill called "bad policy" by Public Citizen because it gives "billions of dollars in unjustified subsidies to the fossil fuel and nuclear energy industries," rolls back environmental regulations for the oil and gas industry, and "repeals the Public Utility Holding Company Act (PUHCA), an essential consumer protection that ensures that electric utilities exist to serve the people, not the profit interests of large corporations."
Clinton: No, Obama: Yes, McCain: No
(5) Dorgan Amendment (S.Amdt. 1665) to the 2005 Commerce Appropriations Bill
Vote taken: 9/15/2005
Analysis: Would prevent future trade deals that allow "dumping" of products into the U.S. at prices below their cost of acquisition (harming U.S. farmers, ranchers, businesses and workers), by prohibiting the Commerce Department from weakening current countervailing duties and antidumping laws.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: No, McCain: No
(6) Confirmation of John Roberts to the Supreme Court
Vote taken: 9/29/2005)
Analysis: Hard right-winger
Clinton: No, Obama: No, McCain: Yes
(7) Confirmation of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court
Vote taken: 1/31/2006
Analysis: Hard right-winger
Clinton: No, Obama: No, McCain: Yes
(8) USA PATRIOT Act Reauthorization
Vote taken: 3/1/2006
Analysis: Allows the government to spy on citizens in "fishing expeditions" without probable cause or a court order, including listening to telephone calls, intercepting emails, accessing private medical records, library records and bank records, and searching homes and businesses without permission or knowledge.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: Yes, McCain: Yes
(9) Feinstein Amendment (S.Amdt. 4882) to the 2007 Department of Defense Appropriations Act
Vote taken: 9/06/2006
Analysis: Outlaws use of cluster bombs in most cases, in order to protect civilian lives from unexploded cluster munitions.
Clinton: No, Obama: Yes, McCain: No
(10) Iraq withdrawal timeline goal (2007 Supplemental Appropriations Act)
Vote taken: 3/29/2007
Analysis: Provides that, "The President shall commence the phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, with the goal of redeploying, by March 31, 2008, all United States combat forces from Iraq."
Clinton: Yes, Obama: Yes, McCain: No
(11) Kyl-Lieberman resolution on Iran
Vote taken: 9/26/2007
Analysis: Tantamount to a declaration of war (Sen. James Webb, former Secretary of the Navy).
Clinton: Yes, Obama: NV, McCain: NV
(12) Feingold-Reid Amendment (S.Amdt. 3164) to the 2008 Department of Defense Appropriations Act
Vote taken: 10/3/2007
Analysis: Requires the President to safely redeploy all U.S. troops from Iraq by June 30, 2008, except for those needed for al Qaeda operations, security and training.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: NV, McCain: No
A good Progressive would have voted as follows:
(1) Condoleeza Rice: NO
(2) Tort "reform": NO
(3) Cap credit card interest rates at 30%: YES
(4) Energy bill: NO
(5) Prevent unfair trade deals: YES
(6) John Roberts: NO
(7) Samuel Alito: NO
(8) USA PATRIOT Act Reauthorization: NO
(9) Outlaw cluster bombs: YES
(10) Iraq withdrawal timeline goal: YES
(11) Kyl-Lieberman resolution on Iran: NO
(12) Iraq withdrawal timeline requirement: YES
Here are the candidates' Progressive vote totals:
Clinton score: 8 of 12
Obama score: 4 of 12
McCain score: 1 of 12
John Buell observes: "...tracking polls during the run-up to the [2000] election suggest that during those points in the campaign when Gore STROVE TO PRE-EMPT NADER'S POPULIST THEMES, he achieved his highest support." This reveals that Americans AGREE with Nader's positions -- but they DON'T want him as PRESIDENT. Simple!
(Are any friends of Ralph out there willing to whisper this in his ear?)
Bob K wrote: "Informed and honest people know that Ralph Nader is a beacon of intelligence and integrity ..."
Informed and honest people know that in 2000, Ralph Nader said -- repeatedly and emphatically -- that there was "NO DIFFERENCE" between Al Gore and George W. Bush.
Ralph Nader was -- and is -- too intelligent and too knowledgeable to believe that was true. It was, in fact, blatantly untrue.
It was, in fact, a deliberate lie.
At the moment that Ralph Nader said there was "NO DIFFERENCE" between Al Gore and George W. Bush, Ralph Nader became just one more dishonest politician, telling deliberate lies in order to get votes.
At that moment, Ralph Nader became a "beacon" of hypocrisy and cynical dishonesty.
At that moment, Ralph Nader became a "beacon" of hypocrisy and cynical dishonesty.
--So you say. Just because one does not put faith in whom you put faith in does not make them 'cynically dishonest.' Realism is not necessarily cynicism, though it can sometimes be disguised as such. Until or unless we inwardly understand ourselves, we will be deceived in all kinds of ways. Why? Because it means we still believe in things that CANNOT come true, no matter how hard we believe in them. That is the kind of self-honesty that brings with it a new awakening. And what we need most is a 'new awakening.'
Adele,
I have to disagree. It's true that most Americans agree with Nader's positions (just as the numerous "blind taste tests" on the Internet proved they agree with Kucinich's positions). However, your conclusion that we "don't want him as President," makes no sense. I assume you base that on the fact that he didn't win the most votes. However, that is because (1) most voters buy into the "he has no chance" media mantra, and "vote strategically" Democrat mantra, (2) his name recognition was lower than the other candidates -- also Kucinich's problem, and (3) he was not on the ballot in all states.
SecularAnimist,
Nader never actually used the words "no difference." If you are going to hang your hat on that claim, show us a document.
Thank You Bob
I plan on taking your research and sharing it with as many people as I can.
This is great word and I appreciate it . . .
Hazmat,
Wouldn't those 200,000 fall into "sonambulant public who thought having a beer with Bush was the overriding concern ..."?
During the 1960's Ralph provided the tools for consumers to have a voice. Unfortunately, too many Americans are scared of thinking about any topic beyond what can be condensed in a sound bite, and they have never opened the tool chest Ralph gave them to take the tools out.
FDR also gave Americans a few tools and some inspiration as demonstrated by his inaugural speech that has been broadcast and printed extensively this week (75th anniversary). If he were to give the speech today, many Americans would not be familiar with some of the words and would definitely want a more condensed version.
All of the progressive politicians in the world won't help America if the voters don't exercise their rights and brains.
Ralph Nader's phrase was "not a dime's worth of difference." I don't have a document or a link, but I saw him say it twice in person, once during the 2000 campaign, once at a Rolling Thunder Democracy Tour appearance the following year (i.e., both before and after the election).
However, people always take the phrase out of context. He said there was basically no difference on a host of issues. Anybody with half a political brain cell can see where the parties differ in their legislative agenda, but on issues that matter to the common people, both parties come down on the side of the corporations at the expense of working people and the environment.
And that's what Nader so eloquently said: there are differences, but the differences are meaningless. He talks in paragraphs, but the soundbyte world doesn't have the patience for complex thoughts, preferring slogans that fit on a bumper sticker like "Change!"
That said, as an unrepentant Nader voter from 2000, I'm a bit chuffed that he's running. I would have hoped for Nader to support Cynthia McKinney (or whomever the Green Party nominates). While it's nice to have multiple progressive choices, I'd prefer that he not compete for the 5% that the Greens need in order to have an automatic ballot line. His move seems calculated to hurt the Greens chances of doing even that, even in a year when progressive Democrats are fed up with supine Democratic Congresscritters.
Bob K,
"Nader never actually used the words "no difference." If you are going to hang your hat on that claim, show us a document"
Getting a little slippery. Nader said there's not a dime's worth of difference. Same thing. Are you a politician by any chance ...
Well, it started out on a positive and correct path until Mr. Buell begins the 3rd paragraph. Revolutions are not waged nor won by scared, less than honest and half-assed people. No....we are going to have to get honest and ACT in courageous ways if we are to live in a just and free society.
See ya'll when your 401 K's, house forecloses, you lose your job to some 3rd world peasant worker, and/or YOU JUST GET SICK AND TIRED OF THIS SHIT...half-assed political system!
I'll meet you on the frontlines! We are waiting for you.
peace,
M
Ralph still does not acknowledge that Al Gore would have been significantly better choice for President than George Bush. Until he admits the truth about Al Gore, and about his role in the 2000 election result, he is just another unpopular, no chance of winning nut case, wasting time and money running for President.
I hope those who support him in these columns are giving very heavily to his campaign. Then they can be as big a loser as Nader is. I hope that Nader runs in every presidential election until he dies and they cough up some significant portion of their money to help him, decade after decade.
But go ahead and put your faith in Ralph, if enough people did that, and let's say a million people contributed to his campaign, and his message resonated with millions more, why he could be a real candidate for president. Imagine that, Ralph could be like Barack Obama. That's all Ralph needs is a more charisma, more contributers, and well, just a little better judgement so he can tell the difference between an Al Gore and a George Bush.
Ralph Nader will never be President of the United States. That's the new awakening that Naderites need to address.
Al Gore had a chance to win, so does Barak Obama. In both cases, they would serve the nation and the world better than their opponents.
How many more articles will we have to read from people who defend Nader and build him up to be such a great candidate only to then say they are going to join their Democratic friends in voting for Obama or Clinton in November?
What a waste of time! Just go commit to voting for the lesser of two evils. We would like you to slug it out and work towards a more democratic system that allows people to vote for more than just the two parties. But if you are going to hint at supporting that movement and then turn around and agree to get suckered in to our broken system one paragraph later, just don't even bother to speak words of praise towards Nader and the movement for a better, more democratic America. If you aren't going to vote for the candidates working for a better system, you clear do not support a move to that system.
Whatever satisfaction you will gain from voting for Clinton or Obama will never be matched by the satisfaction for being part of a movement for a real change to the system with which we elect our leaders.
re brissot 2:46pm
given the widespread presumption that progressive votes rightfully belong to the Ds and were "stolen" or "siphoned off" by nader, i feel it's important to note that 200,000 registered dems in florida, and millions nationwide, tuned out on their party's standard bearer.
somnambulent, or uninspired? if the latter, how is it that nader takes the blame?
LOL!
"Al Gore had a chance to win, so does Barak Obama. In both cases, they would serve the nation and the world better than their opponents."
What a flack! People who promote the lesser of two evils are nihilists.
This is the part that irks me; all this whiney cowardly "liberals" that come out every round and go on and on abt teh Democrats and how this time they really are better. Or, even stupider; they haul out the old saw abt needing to stop the GOP because the Democrats are so so much better. Noxious flatulence, every word of it.
Unlike so many delirious Obamaniacs/Democrats, I am leftwing values voter; and we aren't cowards, we vote for those who also promote the same values. The Democrats do not.
Nader preserves the illusion that change will come from above. Whomsoever the president is in 2009, we will have to fight that person. Get used to it.
chi1088,
If that is directed at me, I'm sorry to offend. I voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004. However, in 2008 I want to be informed about all the candidates (beyond what the media tells me). If there is a "dime's worth of difference" this year, I want to know. That is the only way I can cast a responsible vote.
I'm not sure why a Democrat would want Ralph excluded from the debates. To the extent that they're running towards the center (which is a reasonable strategy in a winner-take-all system), having Ralph as a foil would only make their policies seem more moderate, with the Democrat in the middle of Ralph and a suddenly marginalized conservative.
In the words of a very wise person I know;
How can Ralph spoil an already spoiled democracy?
Instead of the Dems being "reactionary" to a progressive
candidate, why don't they be pro-actionary and quit acting
like Repugs?
We don't need a prez who will "scale back" the monstrosity
it Iraq...we need one to end it and end the US corporatization
of Iraq. Period.
Love
Cindy
www.cindyforcongress.org
I also refuse to bash Nader. My only question about him is where is he between election cycles. We need his help, maybe more articles here on Common Grounds and other progressive sites. I understand that his role is to keep capitalism regulated at least to the extent that we are not bashed over the head with a sledge hammer for 16 years at a time.
Cindy, I love you and want you to know I live here in Texas.
SecularAnimist: I may be wrong, but I don't recall Nader saying there was no difference between
Gore and bush. He did say that for the most part that there was no difference between the
democrats and the republicans. If you look at what bush has done in the last 7 years with mostly
a rubber stamp from the democrats, I think he was right. With everything bush has done, the democrats
still refuse to bring impeachment hearings against bush. Nader is not anti-democrat. I think he
would like very much to back a democratic candidate if they would go back to what the democratic
party used to stand for. He did back Edwards in this race,
Just curious, but what about a Nader/Sheehan ticket? That would give those of us who wouldn't otherwise vote something worth voting for! (Speaking as an expat who can still vote from outside the sinking ship.)
Why on earth would Sheehan give up her race against Pelosi? That might be the most important race in the country this year.
Progressives need to show political power. And to do it in a very public way that can't be missed. Ms. Sheehan booting the sitting Speaker of the House out of Congress would be an extraordinarily powerful event. It could not be ignored.
Think very hard about what you can do to support Ms. Sheehan's campaign. Not only by contributing, but everyone on this site should be considering whether they can take time off and go to CA next Oct or Nov to help with that campaign.
Very good point, COMarc.
Allow me to translate:
I'm still too much of a brainwashed pussy to vote outside of the "two party" system, as much as I'd like to.
"At least some important business interests now understand that health care is a drag on U.S. competitiveness, that the days of accessible oil and escalating balance of payments deficits cannot go on forever, and that war costs and no-bid contracts for crony friends are creating tangible barriers to their own expansion."
Whoopee f**kin do - Phillip Morris has an "anti-smoking" website and the Mafia occasionally builds a hospital, too.
Nader is responsible for millions of lives saved, and has never taken a corporate payoff.
Ron Paul has delivered over 4,000 babies himself, 22 years in Congress, and has never taken a corporate payoff.
BO has... talked a f**king lot, and accepted a shitload of corporate money.
HRC has... talked a f**king lot while voting for an illegal aggressive invasion and has enabled the continuing illegal occupation and has taken a shitload of corporate money.
But, as usual, the "liberals" and so-called "progressives" will line up behind whomever they are told to while convincing themselves they aren't.
To those who believe a Gore Presidency would have been seriously different from a Bush Presidency, please point out the occaisions where the Dems in Congress have stood up to Bush and stopped him from doing anything in the last 7 years.
After all, 41 Senators could have filibustered and stopped just about anything. Policies, budgets, wars, the Patriot Act, Supreme Court nominations, Attorney General nominations. The Democrats with 41 Senators could have stopped anything.
They haven't. That's what tells you there's very little difference whether its a Dem or a Republican in the White House.
The Dems are using exactly the same propaganda technique that have been used to start all our recent wars. They personalize all problems on one person and say that's the problem. So, we see this leading up to a war when all problems are caused by a Saddam. Now we see exactly the same technique used, but its Bush and Cheney personally that are the problem. Its always all Bush's fault. Its all personalized on him.
This is used to create the fiction that if we replace the cowboy Bush puppet with the black Obama puppet then all will be well. But to accept that one has to ignore the reality that the Democrats have been fully onboard with everything Bush has done. After all, they had the power to stop any of it with a Senate filibuster and have stopped nothing.
If you don't believe just look at today's headlines where the Democrats are about to give the US government much greater power to spy on Americans, along with immunity for those who've violated our rights and broken the law in the past. And that's just today's headlines. There's a long string of similar headlines stretching all the way back to Bill Clinton's election.
To quote myself, my conscience forbids me to give any credence to a system that compels me to hold my nose as I sell my soul to vote for something bad to prevent something worse.
I delight that I can vote for one my heroes. I cannot comprehend why the Dems think my vote belongs to them. It never has, it never will (unless they run candidates like Kucinich, which I don't think I'll ever need to worry about.) Tactical arguments don't work for me, because if democracy means anything at all it means being able to vote your conscience.