starofthesea: Good point. I do like Harper's though--not quite leftie, but at least it's reassuringly illusion-free about the crappy state of the nation.

corvo---hasn't been a good leftie "rag" since the IF Stone Weekly later Bi-Weekly/ Now them's be the good ol days! Or maybe Ramparts

p.s. I failed to mention that Vonnegut's dismissal of voting appeared in, of course, In These Times -- in an imaginary interview of Vonnegut by Kilgore Trout. Here's the passage:

TROUT: I've never voted in my whole damn life. I didn't want to be complicit. But is it time I did?

KV: The planet's immune system is obviously trying to get rid of us, and high time! But sure, go vote for somebody. What the hell.

And here's the link to the whole thing: http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/1351/

formernadervoter: The Nation is all about power among what's left of the left; it just uses progressivism as a tool. Remember how hard The Nation tried to kill Pacifica Radio just a few years back? Now it's just scrambling for a place at the Obama table in the unlikely event that he wins the election and the Powers That Be let him "win" it.

In These Times is even worse; it whores itself to potential subscribers with appreciative quotes by Kurt Vonnegut. This would be the same Kurt Vonnegut who commented on the utter futility of voting for anyone. That doesn't stop Head Apparatchik Joel Bleifuss for issuing nasty, fact-free condemnations of Nader voters seven years after the fact.

CANDIDATES' VOTING RECORDS COMPARED (updated March 4, 2008)

What is more important, image or substance? Rhetoric or record?

Candidates' campaign speeches change from week to week. They pander to one group, then they pander to the next group. So, how do we know what they really stand for? Check their voting records!

Right now, Clinton and Obama are promising to fix NAFTA and other trade deals. But, how did they vote on that issue when they had the chance? They are promising to end the war in Iraq. How did they vote on that issue when they had the chance? Corporate welfare, environmental protection, social justice, public health, consumer protection — they've voted on all these important Progressive issues, and more!

Clinton, Obama and McCain have all been U.S. Senators for the past three years. Here's how they voted:

(1) Confirmation of Condoleeza Rice to be Secretary of State (vote taken 1/26/2005)
Analysis: Neo-con, war criminal
Clinton: Yes, Obama: Yes, McCain: Yes

(2) Tort "reform" (Class Action Fairness Act of 2005) (vote taken 2/10/2005)
Analysis: Opposed by more than 68 consumer, civil rights, environmental and labor groups, it was described as the "final [Republican] payback to the tobacco, asbestos, oil and chemical industries, at the expense of ordinary families whose health has been compromised."
Clinton: No, Obama: Yes, McCain: Yes

(3) Dayton Amendment (S.Amdt. 31) to the 2005 Bankruptcy Act (vote taken 3/3/2005)
Analysis: Would cap credit card interest rates at 30%. Senator Dayton provided examples of predatory lenders charging vulnerable people more than 1000%/year interest. Republicans argued that "free-markets" should set interest rates, and government should not interfere.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: No, McCain: No

(4) Energy Policy Act of 2005 (vote taken 7/29/2005)
Analysis: A corporate-welfare bill called "bad policy" by Public Citizen because it gives "billions of dollars in unjustified subsidies to the fossil fuel and nuclear energy industries," rolls back environmental regulations for the oil and gas industry, and "repeals the Public Utility Holding Company Act (PUHCA), an essential consumer protection that ensures that electric utilities exist to serve the people, not the profit interests of large corporations."
Clinton: No, Obama: Yes, McCain: No

(5) Dorgan Amendment (S.Amdt. 1665) to the 2005 Commerce Appropriations Bill (vote taken 9/15/2005)
Analysis: Would prevent future trade deals that allow "dumping" of products into the U.S. at prices below their cost of acquisition (harming U.S. farmers, ranchers, businesses and workers), by prohibiting the Commerce Department from weakening current countervailing duties and antidumping laws.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: No, McCain: No

(6) Confirmation of John Roberts to the Supreme Court (vote taken 9/29/2005)
Analysis: Hard right-winger
Clinton: No, Obama: No, McCain: Yes

(7) Confirmation of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court (vote taken 1/31/2006)
Analysis: Hard right-winger
Clinton: No, Obama: No, McCain: Yes

(8) USA PATRIOT Act Reauthorization (vote taken 3/1/2006)
Analysis: Allows the government to spy on citizens in "fishing expeditions" without probable cause or a court order, including listening to telephone calls, intercepting emails, accessing private medical records, library records and bank records, and searching homes and businesses without permission or knowledge.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: Yes, McCain: Yes

(9) Feinstein Amendment (S.Amdt. 4882) to the 2007 Department of Defense Appropriations Act (vote taken 9/06/2006)
Analysis: Outlaws use of cluster bombs in most cases, in order to protect civilian lives from unexploded cluster munitions.
Clinton: No, Obama: Yes, McCain: No

(10) Iraq withdrawal timeline goal (2007 Supplemental Appropriations Act) (vote taken 3/29/2007)
Analysis: Provides that, "The President shall commence the phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, with the goal of redeploying, by March 31, 2008, all United States combat forces from Iraq."
Clinton: Yes, Obama: Yes, McCain: No

(11) Kyl-Lieberman resolution on Iran (vote taken 9/26/2007)
Analysis: Tantamount to a declaration of war (Sen. James Webb, former Secretary of the Navy).
Clinton: Yes, Obama: NV, McCain: NV

(12) Feingold-Reid Amendment (S.Amdt. 3164) to the 2008 Department of Defense Appropriations Act (vote taken 10/3/2007)
Analysis: Requires the President to safely redeploy all U.S. troops from Iraq by June 30, 2008, except for those needed for al Qaeda operations, security and training.
Clinton: Yes, Obama: NV, McCain: No

A good Progressive would have voted as follows:

(1) Condoleeza Rice: NO
(2) Tort "reform": NO
(3) Cap credit card interest rates at 30%: YES
(4) Energy bill: NO
(5) Prevent unfair trade deals: YES
(6) John Roberts: NO
(7) Samuel Alito: NO
(8) USA PATRIOT Act Reauthorization: NO
(9) Outlaw cluster bombs: YES
(10) Iraq withdrawal timeline goal: YES
(11) Kyl-Lieberman resolution on Iran: NO
(12) Iraq withdrawal timeline requirement: YES

Here are the candidates' Progressive vote totals:

Clinton score: 8 of 12
Obama score: 4 of 12
McCain score: 1 of 12

Jim G,
I feel the USA is f, ed. You forget 2000 and 2004 Bush lost those elections. What in the world, since GB has given the powers that allowed this to happen even more power in america has changed? GB the war prez but whose war? Israels? Obama or anyone running is not going to change a single thing?
Over 70% of the US hates GB, yet you put your hopes in the election process that as I said above does not work. The people running are a joke, get use to it Jim.

But I thought Obama was the change candidate, John.

Hey all you Obama fans, what's wrong with your man?

Outside the Loop said: "I don't mean to say that the Palestinians are being treated as severely as were the Jews in Germany in the 1940s"

The ONLY thing missing my friend is the gas chambers.

There may or may not be an election in November. Some of you seem to think winning matters, that if Obama is nominated and wins he may or may not change the balance that draws the lines in the Palestinian sand. In fact Obama like any politician will do what circumstance dictates. He can be sure of only one thing "change". At present you can only judge by his rhetoric on positions and his smooth chameleon transition as needs change. The financial barons and the military industrial complex that actually runs your country and its self image is hardly going to give him a free hand once he gets into the sand-box, baring in mind that the present administration is probably planting a fair amount of doo-doo for him to deal with in the next four years let us imagine the job he faces and those calls at 3 AM:
- Collapse of the US Dollar along with various financial institutions, banking / insurance
- Global decoupling as cause and as result of the above
- Hyper-stagflation, (declining growth with double digit inflation)
- Double digit unemployment as banks foreclose on commercial assets
- Domestic disturbance, violence, (see 90s Argentina for an idea and add your NRA) and draconian oppression under martial law (see Katrina - NA).
- After Israel simultaneously attacking Lebanon and Iran involving mini-nukes, in September or October 08, America will be drawn into joint air action and policing of Iran and Syrian airspace. Leading to a whole new scenario in Iraq.
- Above leads to a complete breakdown between the UNSC V. UNGA and calls for a new Charter.
- Breakdown of NATO in Afghanistan
- About turn In Pakistan relations, followed by a possible military coupe-d'etat, followed by civil strife and the rise of militant Islamists in the driving seat.

Of course this is speculation but, the importance to Israel of "eliminating" Hamas right now becomes obvious, but as

Pakiman said :
"…sad situation, but the only hope is for Muslims, Arabs, all third world nations etc. to unite and force change."

Unfortunately Israel and the US have put the whole matter of hubris on a violent and aggressive military footing where anything goes, and if you don't like it you're a terrorist so you know what to expect. More terrorists???

Bernice said :
"Maybe the candidates (and the electee in January) need to hear from MILLIONS of Americans …. If theUN's Security Council is paralyzed by the US, can't the General Assembly act without it to come to the defen(c)e of Gaza and, surely before long, the West Bank and Lebanon?????"

No, they are not listening, they never will… The UNGA is a consultative body without the power of law. But you are right. I expect what the Palestinians and Iraqis feel today will be spread far and wide from Kabul to Beirut. A hundred million will suffer and another million may die.

Outside the Loop said:
"Irony of ironies. When the Jews in Germany faced the death camps, people kept silent…… No major American politician is showing the courage to speak the truth on this…. The silence of Obama and Hillary is deafening."

I think this is only the beginning, wait until every Arab-Muslim-Iranian etc.. is considered your (potential) enemy all 1.4 Billion in the world. That is what this has been all about! Terrorism? Most Europeans and Asians feel that the US and Israel are the greatest threats to world peace. We know who the terrorists are.

Unfortunately Little Brother, none of the above still gets you one of the above, and why allow for the worst?

The choice between Hillary and Obama may indeed be a "no-brainer".

Still, some of us with brains are still stuck on "none of the above".

good luck,

You first man!

The situation is gonna change because it has to for the system to survive.

Obama is threatening to be the strongest player in the world because he knows there are certain fights that have to wait until you are in position to do anything about it.

The article above complains that Obama is not making this an issue now but the letter by Obama posted was written in January.

If Obama is killed than maybe you will think he is OK?

Or if he follows your political advise and commits suicide, than he would be OK?

He can't do shit about anything until he gets in.

The advise Jimmy Carter gave is correct but he said get involved before inauguration and that means after elected.... it is before Huckabee's inauguration too if he meant any candidate.

Israel won't talk to Hamas, Bush and Britain won't talk to Hamas and that is what the holdup is,

Now Obama's main theme is that he is willing to talk to anyone that is important so that is why he is different and offers hope that no other candidate does.

What the Dem haters here do is what they will do until election day, blame everything on the Dems.

Winners do not follow the advice of committed losers.

Obama is a winner and he doesn't intend to be killed just so the folks who hate the Dems can think maybe he is OK.

Sorry, good luck, bend over first!

two countries that make Hitler look like a school yard bully. THE USA, (the land of sheep) and Israel. Nothing is going to change you sheep, vote till you are blue in the face nothing is going to change. HA HA HA , now all line up and assume the position.

When will the people demand discussion of the Palestinian issue. One only has to adopt of the trait of empathy, one of the seventeen lessons discussed by Ralph Nader in his latest book on things he learned from his father. By putting one's self in another's place, an better understanding of the issue can be had. Former President Carter's book, "Peace Not Apartheid" deals with this issuewith clarity and detail. Of course AIPAC and the other zionist apologizers won't hear of it because "God promised this land to us". To those that beleive in God, there is only one God, the God of everyone.

Vern: As I still have some breakfast in my stomach, please don't remind me just yet that I have to choose between Clinton and Obama. If I can't keep my gorge down, my keyboard gets all messy.

Bottom line: The choice is Clinton or Obama.

I do not have any illusion that Obama is perfect and is far from ideal. But your option is Clinton who not only is waging a highly unethical campaign, but has more in common with McCain at times-than Obama.
That is your choice. To me it is a no-brainer.

Irony of ironies. When the Jews in Germany faced the death camps, people kept silent. I don't mean to say that the Palestinians are being treated as severely as were the Jews in Germany in the 1940s, but the silence in the face of their mistreatment is similar. No major American politician is showing the courage to speak the truth on this. Ethnic cleansing is a crime, even when committed in Palestine by Israelis. The silence of Obama and Hillary is deafening.

p.s. to Vern: Obama is smart enough to know that he can't repeat Hillary Clinton's mistake. She's still overcompensating for the s*itstorm that confronted her when she embraced Mrs. Arafat.

Vern: And my feeling is that Obama is yet another of those faceless careerists who will say anything to anyone in order to get elected; and who, once elected, will do as his special interests tell him.

wouldn't want to scare off the huge Texas and Ohio Jewish vote

medusa: If you want to believe the OT is the history of the "development of a moral consciousness," then I guess nobody can stop you.

To me it's just the projectionist fantasies of one of many barbaric tribes. It would be a historical curiosity we could regard with some admiration for its less barbaric features if there weren't so many people who actually believe that it's the "Word of God" and thus at all relevant to anyone's moral compass.

Now excuse me; I've got to go stone someone wearing blended fibers.

athiestic, pro muslim

Oh dear...

Though, my feeling is that Obama, who at least differentiated between support for Israel and support for Likud, would be much more likely to be an honest broker, as opposed to Clinton who can not grovel for the lobbies and kiss the ring of Likud long enough.

The entry by "tolerancenow" just above is incredible. The Palestinians, just like Native Americans, weren't turning their lands into shopping centers, so they were "trash" who deserved what they got from outsiders trying to dump their own problems on them...."Palestinians fight from behind baby carriages"---I guess because they don't do it the "moral" way with missiles, helicopters and tanks bought on the cheap from the U.S. with its own delusionary reasons for the sales....The fact is that "ordinary" Jews and Arabs were getting along as (im)perfectly as anybody else on the planet until the FANATICS on all sides started poisoning the atmosphere with their "holy" Bible-based delusions of grandeur....What a beautiful spiritual idea---we have the true god if we're able to kill you all. Look, either declare what you really are by wiping out all the "others" or give up these ass-foolish metaphysical fantasies, ALL OF YOU....Nobody gives a FUCK about your "God" or your "holy status" clubs. You are, as Yeats said, "weasels fighting in a hole"....

Hi David Grayling, I second that idea.

P.S., went to your web-site, the 'machinations' as you refer to the subterfuge and manipulation of the many by the few is a true cancer, America is sick as we speak from this parasite.

To Juan Cole, Noam Chomsky and other bearers of light.

And lest we distract, 'izrayhell' ain't about what religion or tribe mommmy claims-It is about murder and infanticide and torture.

Dead babies don't care what voodoo their killer practices.

Israel, "The Jewish State," Or a Homicidal State of Mind?

tolerancenow - what a good idea. Sorry you've still got a ways to go, but keep up the good work.

Medusa said "Jewish identity is based on family ties through the mother - a little archaic, but a throwback to less patriarchal times." Actually, it was a throwback to exactly Abraham's time, not exactly less patriarchal. If the line is traced through the mother, then Isaac and not Ishmael is the inheritor. If traced through the father, then Ishmael wins, which wouldn't be kosher, so to speak.

LOL, second. The thing is; every 'group' seems to be full of all sorts, claiming to be 'representative' of their group, while the actual idea(l)s of said group's members varies widely. Having said that, any sub-group that advocates, by means of violence, the destruction of sentient life, is full of shit. Period. And further, when they claim to do so in the name of GOD, whether it is the personal conversations that George Bush has with GOD or the conversations that jihadists have with Allah, or whether it is those of the "chosen people's", these claims belie insanity of the highest order. Killing others in the name of God is WORSE than killing monks in Burma.

When I had a discussion a few months ago with my nephew, who is a student at a Lutheran seminary, about what he found so great about Obama, I mentioned Israel's crimes against the Palestineans.

He told me he participated in a conference call with Obama at the seminary and he said Obama said he supported the Palestineans but had to wait until he was elected to come out with that fact.

I called Obama a coward and was told I was "depressingly cynical." I imagine this is what happens to people like me who have Cancer, lose their insurance, have their chemo cut off mid-treatment and then have to wait four months to get medicaid.

Then I stumble onto some articles about his "saintly" wife working for a non-profit hospital and whom devotes her time to getting rid of non-insured persons like myself, Obamatruth.org. What a joke these people are...

I'd like to nominate tolerancenow for an Oscar, that is the Oscar awarded to the person who has chosen the most inappropriate nickname ever devised.

Any seconders?

tolerancenow - mmm what an interesting name for someone who spews such ignorant vitriol.

I hope you feel better soon.

tolerancenow; thank you for your post.

Tolerance truly is a beautiful and all too rare human trait.

Khiam

Hey, hatemongers, cool your frenzied anti Irael, athiestic, pro muslim diatribe.
Until 1948, nothing grew or was built in Palestine. It was a sleepy little barren territory. The muslims there were the Arabic parallel to American poor white trash. Why do you think the Western powers put the holocaust surviviors there to begin with? They all thought that if the scorpions and terrain didn't kill the Jews, the arabs would. Hitler's plan would still be carried out. (Frankly, Iran's leader has a point- They should have put the holocaust survivors in a European area and made that a sovereign nation).
The muslims failed to massace the jews in Palestine because they're, well, not smart and God is simply not supporting muslim hatred. Muslims believe in a way of life most of you idiots abhore. So why do you support these cowards who fight behind women and children?
Hatred and intolerance are what drive the muslims to kill non-muslims. Do you idiots honestly believe that if enlightened feminized American liberals inhabited Jerusalem, it would make a difference? Do you idiots honestly believe that if you reached out to muslims in Palestine and convinced them to become feminized athiestic American liberals peace would result?
NO!!! You idiots would have all of your stupid heads chopped off, your women sold to Somalian warlords and Saudi Arabians and your sons and daughters forced to become suicide bombers. Why? Because you're stupid athiestic American liberals who AREN'T MUSLIM!!! God you're dumb!
Palestinians hate jews, not because they destroyed their lands, but solely because they are not muslims! Muslims kill their own children by firing rockets from schools where children are threatened with death if they leave. Muslims don't really respect the sanctity of human life- Didn't Belsan teach you idiots anything?? Why are you idiots supporting these warrior neanderthals?!?!?!
The muslims on this sight are playing a muslim trick with you. They honestly want you to believe Israelis have no right to self defense and that Israeli children should die because of what the muslims are doing to their own women and children!! Like idiots, you fall for it. Muslims are followers of a warrior general who decided killing non muslims was better than negotiating, that lieing to non muslims was better than dealing with them truthfully.
Muslims have also recognized that guilty feminized American liberals are easy prey- All they have to do is act as if they are a helpless minority and you idiots send them money, sympathy and support their hate. Let the wealthiest people in the world- Arabic oil sheiks from Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Oman, Kuwait and Iran take care of the Palestinians- you idiots stay out of it. Arabic muslims are not a helpless minority that needs the sympathy of American feminized liberals. They are simply cold blooded killers of those who are not muslim.
If Israel wipes out some muslims and survives, then Islam will be proven a false religion. The entire world will be safer, freer and Arabic women and children could actually have a chance to live productive lives without threats from crazed warrior sociopaths.
GO ISRAEL!! LEAVE ISRAEL ALONE, CONDOLEEZA.
Oh yeah, if you idiots want to support the muslims so damn much, why are you complaining about greehouse gases, high oil prices and buying hybrid electric cars? These activities take away from your helpless muslim minority.

Nader or bust!

Our political 2-party system is hopeless and needs to be gotten rid of. No candidate who can get on TV will talk about this except one. Why not support him?

lizard:

The vast majority of climate scientists worldwide who are not on the industry dole disagree with your #4. "Global warming is mostly a natural phenomenon".

drwu,

Thanks for re-posting my Obama letter post - which for some reason, has disappeared! Next time, however, please properly cite the author of the post and link...

Madrid March - good points - thanks for all the references I will look at them.

The bible was written when people did identify more with tribes, clans, specific bits of land, but I wouldn't overplay the actual racist element nowadays. That was a long time ago. It's more a nationalism based on cultural identity. I haven't yet heard a Jew say s/he was superior because of his/her race. In fact, race is something Jews I've talked to/lived among have denied, always saying that there is no such thing as a Jewish race. And when you look at all the places Jews have lived and come from, you have to see that's true. Jewish identity is based on family ties through the mother - a little archaic, but a throwback to less patriarchal times. And through culture/ritual. The battle in Israel is a battle over land and water.

The Palestinians aren't a race either - or even of a single religion. What freaks me out is that this vicious campaign, this push to annihilate the Palestinians is even possible after the horrors of 1940+. The world stood idly by then, even assisted and made money off the time that Jews were being wiped out - now they're doing the same thing to the Palestinians and again the world is callously standing by and making business off it. I don't get it. If it was wrong then, why isn't it wrong now?

And enough already with the Qasam excuse - if you came on my land, cut down my tomato plants, poisoned my dog, cut my electrical cable, shot at my kid, bulldozed my garage, and dumped all your sewage in my yard, I'd be tempted to fire at you with my BB gun, too.

namaste March 2nd, 2008 10:11 pm
Hi Namaste! Thanks! By Green are you referring to the Green Party of Peace?

TAILCAP -- You've got that spot on, that"The cowardice of the Democratic Party may come to haunt them …"

I'm envisioning a new political map, whereas previously the battle of red/blue colors predominated, shifting in July dramatically toward the _ G R E E N _ color of PEACE and allowing

Namaste
… … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … & … ML King … … Inspiration … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — MLK

Thanks Mike, I agree. I think we both want a fair and peaceful society. As one poster noted change will need to come from us not the leaders. Their hands are tied. If we could all unite like the colonist did against England we can certainly succeed. Maybe thats our real task. Coming together.

Ric Abreu

Whoa tailcap, I am humbled by that post.

The system, the political process, is so corrupt, as are all the major players.

Many CD'rs disagree about what form hope might take, but I feel most want the same things. We are just so checkmated.

Well, it will be interesting.

Sorry for any offense or if you feel insulted. We all have a right to express our opinions and I will respect yours. I will be more careful posting to avoid this happening again. Insulting others is not cool. Sorry.

The topic is leadership. The fact is they were all leaders and a person whose sole concern is getting elected is not a leader and that is the subtext of the article in my opinion.

It is precisely these type of excuses for "leaders" that will cause them to lose elections. Unwilling to take tough stands or risk anything. They play it as safe as possible. Calculating all the way to the bank. They lose. Risking is what makes heroes.

The cowardice of the Democratic Party may come to haunt them as they may just lose to McCain because at least to middle America they know where he stands. We need principled and courageous leaders. The Democrats are not. That is my opinion.

Things you cannot say if you want to be president:

1. The US is the most destructive force in the world
2. I do not believe in God
3. 9-11 was the work of Mossad
4. Global warming is mostly a natural phenomenon
5. Israel is a rogue nation
6. The president and vice-president are war criminals
7. The cuban embargo should be lifted
8. The US is a plutocracy
9. The defense budget should be slashed
10.Reduce the number of bases at home and abroad
11.Israel is an illegal entity
12.Treason has been committed by members of the government

Beyond Empire:

I like McClinbama

tailcap; you insult Rosa Parks, Jesus Christ and Dr. Martin Luther King when you call them politicians.

Who told you Jesus was a Politician tailcap?

Or that only your opinion was valid?

And where did you learn to insult those with opinions which differ from yours?

Rosa Parks was not a politician.

Nor was Dr. King; He was a God.

But to reitterate: Politicians don't commit political suicide. logic 101A.

Got it. What we need are focus groups in foreign and domestic areas. The focus groups will state what they are in favor of and what they oppose in order for the "leader" to get elected. The "leader" then follows their wishes in order to get elected. There is one complication; when the leader's masters oppose what people approve of, for example in the case of the Iraq war the wishes of the people must take a back seat to the wishes of the masters. A good "leader" always checks with his focus groups before making a decision in order to ensure he will not lose any votes. The "leader" then proceeds to follow the followers for the next four years. The focus groups then help him get reelected and the cycle repeats.

Does anyone seriously think anyone named Barak Hussein Obama can afford to be seen as sympathetic towards the Palestians?

Who wants to bite the hand that bribes them?

formernadervoter March 2nd, 2008 6:07 pm
Here is a link about The Nation endorsing Obama:
WSWS
The "circularity" of hope: The Nation endorses Barack Obama
By Patrick Martin
15 February 2008

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb2008/obam-f15.shtml

mikepeters March 2nd, 2008 4:52 pm
"Politicians don't commit political suicide"

Good argument. I wish you could have emailed that one to Dr. Martin Luther King. If he would have taken your advice he might still be alive today. Rosa Parks should have just given up her seat and avoided the embarrassing arrest. Come to think about it, I wish you would have been alive around 2000 years ago so you could have given Jesus the same advice. He might never have taken a stand against Cesar and he wouldn't have suffered the crucification. Always do what is politically advantageous. Avoid taking tough stands that although principled and moral could be used against you. Good point.

You make a good argument for us all to become political cowards sitting in the back of the bus. No balls no glory.

So, John, why did The Nation endorse Obama?

What a foolish move. Same goes for the commentary by Matt Rothschild at The Progressive magazine site and all the other progressives who are endorsing Obama over Hillary as if he's going to represent some kind of change. He's not.

He's for the criminal sanctions on Cuba, too.

All these progressives giving, giving and giving and asking nothing in return. Well they, and we, are going to get nothing.

Help Ralph Nader and Matt Gonzalez instead.
votenader.org

And I say that as a former Nader voter who sees that I have to return to Ralph's agenda cuz the Democratic Party doesn't work.

There is another reason the pols are so much in favor of killing Semites (Palestinians) so others can steal their land. Israel has a huge nuclear arsenal, several hundred. This number is all out of whack with their opponents, who have none. (Pakistan has never attacked Israel, and doesn't have nearly that many.) What is the size of this arsenal for? The only use I can think of is to intimidate the US.

With the help of the US Navy, Israel has had the ability to covertly nuke a coastal city anywhere in the world (including the US) for about 5 years.

When this was announced, Israel statements indicated that they were intended as a threat to Iran. Which is why, of course, Iran wants a viable nuclear weapons program. Whether they have an underground program or not, they do need the weapon unless a champion steps in.

Nader '08. Hilamacain is a dangerous animal - If all those who intend to give up on peace, ignore human rights, increase the military budget, forget about universal health care, continue the growing wealth disparity, hide in fear from various evil monsters under our beds, and prop up our failing electoral process wish to vote for either of the Republicrat candidates, be my guest.

If any of you have the wisdom to see that only by spliting this race in three does any of us have a chance to see a change in the perilous direction the empire is heading, then put aside your fears and join me in making a statement to our single party exploiters.

If all the Democrats who held their noses and voted for Kerry in 2004 would have voted for Nader, we would now be on our way to real change. That damn Kerry; egomaniac, spoiler, why, oh why did he have to stay in the race? This time make your vote count, don't waste it on a demogogue, excuse me democrap, er democ-RAT. Vote for real change - NADER '08. Don't let a Republican take the Whorehouse, er Whitehouse again.

First candidate who promises to nuke Israel has my vote.

How does the Jewish lobby wield so much power given they only make up 2% of the world's population? I've put some ideas together on my blog. Take a look. You may be surprised. You may also be scared!

Meanwhile the farcical Presidential election goes forth. I don't know how you stand it, all the hype, all the lies, all the pretending. While the Democs destroy themselves, the Repubs are laughing.

No one in Australia is laughing!

www.dangerouscreation.com

Since it is political suicide to question NaziIsrael, for Barack to do so now would insure Hillary's nomination.

If they both questioned Israel McInsane would win by a landslide.

Politicians don't commit political suicide. How about questioning why in this free country this subject, NaziIzrael is so sacred? That would take more courage than pot-shotting politicians; always easy work.

Obama '08.

Medusa:

I want to dialogue with you on this, but I believe you are wrong about you idea about what Jews' chosenness signifies. The Babylonian Talmud does indeed have what we would call racist and supremacist verses in it.

Here is a link for example to Sanhedrin 57a, from the Babylonian Talmud:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_57.html

In these verses, we are taught that Israelites may steal from "Cutheans" without any punishment, that Israelites may kill "Cutheans" without suffering the death penalty (which would occur if they killed another Israelite), and that an Israelite can withhold wages from a Cuthean. In the notes, the editor says that a later censor substituted the word "Cuthean" for the original "goy." Look at note 33. I assume you know the meaning of the word "goy."

Your first accusation, I am certain, will be that I got this off of some anti-Semetic site. But no, this is from "Come and Hear" which is a Jewish group that argues for religious tolerance. I have had friends who told me repeatedly that the Talmud is very racist against non-Jews. I abhor white supremacists, and will not look at their sites, so I looked only at Jewish, or philo-Semitic, sources for the Talmud.

To be fair to you, I will also link to the site of a Rabbi who is trying to explain the context of such quotations in the Talmud:
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/kill.html

I have read his explanations of what I think are in fact very racist verses, and I don't buy his explanations.

Keep in mind that Jews in this country are no longer an oppressed minority. In fact, according to the latest Pew Forum Research Survey, Jews have the highest income of any religious ethnicity in the US, (and I would not be suprised if the same held for Europe): http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/table-income-by-denomination.pdf

Given their elite status, they have a duty and a responsibility to challenge the racism in their own tradition (as Christians have spent the past 40 years doing).

Thanks, Common Dreams, for being one web site which carries articles from the press outside the US, as well as the even fewer North American reporters like John Nichols who are concerned about the deepening crisis in Gaza and dare to write about it with a real historical awareness.

It looks as though his article will be published in this week's Nation Magazine, where we occasionally find good critiques like this.

However, this is the first article I've seen on this issue which aims to ask the American voter why neither of the possible Democratic Presidential candidates, nor the US press, mentions anything about this and other long-term and tragic issues of Imperialism. How many Americans, other than the comparatively small number who read the alternative press, even know the background of this issue and why we Americans should be concerned about it, and the future of its influence on the entire middle east imbroglio, or the history of European and US Imperialism.

Thank you John, and Common Dreams, for reminding us of one of the biggest elephants in the living room!

Dont talk about the ELEPHANT indeed.

Where are all the bleeding hearts, neo-cons, state department feminists, etc? These folks were raring to go for Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Darfur. But on the Israeli attack on Gazans, not a word. Where is Wesley Clark and his planes? Say Bill Kristol, how about invading Israel? Bleeding heats, where are you?

Is there some neo-con with the balls of a Winston Churchill calling for a NATO force to bomb back Israel?

Whaddisup with that? This Israeli aggression against Palestinians is what drove our CIA agent OBL to be so angry as to blow US up on 9/11.

Maybe the candidates (and the electee in January) need to hear from MILLIONS of Americans who are appalled at the way our tax dollars are used by Israel to kill and maim innocent Gazans, withhold access to medical care for the wounded (www.guardian.co.uk 03/02/2008), cut their electrical power so their water treatment plant quits and raw sewage runs in the streets. We have NO idea how bad life is for Gaza.

Pretending that a few homemade rockets are "intolerable" but that wholesale attacks by air and tank that wipe out homes and entire families is merely "self defense" is to call what looks like attempted genocide by a false name.

If theUN's Security Council is paralyzed by the US, can't the General Assembly act without it to come to the defense of Gaza and, surely before long, the West Bank and Lebanon?????

Israel and the U.S. are the same thing. This is a problem for anyone who cares about human rights.

USAn, the "chosen" question has nothing to do with racial superiority. Your arguments are illogical and make unwarranted assumptions.

It has to do with a moral superiority, or the development of a moral consciousness based on a contract with a Guy-in-the-sky. The OT is an elaborate contract with gd, with accompanying anecdotes to demonstrate what happens when you break your end of the contract. And the rewards when you follow the rules properly.

Where I have a problem is in that song from "Exodus", "This land is mine, gd gave this land to me." Stirring music, but gd gave this land to everybody.

As a group, voters who desire peace - not more wars or a sustained effort of the status quo, and are also anti-empire building - we have no candidate to choose from for the office of President of the United States in either of the major political parties. Green or Independent votes will not amount to a winning ticket, and that being said, we have no electable candidate! After Kucinich dropped out to concentrate on his congressional race, I still cast my vote for him in the California primary. I contributed to both of his campaigns because he represents my convictions and concerns. I worry now that big money will knock him out of Congress, with the result we the people being even less represented. Come November, I may make the same choice, to vote for Kucinich, to voice my protest, or I may leave the selection of a president of our empire blank. As a natural born citizen, and a voter for the past 43 years, I have never felt more despair for my country or for the citizens of the United States. The audacity of hope does not play out in my neighborhood.

Another issue that has been ignored by all candidates, & by the US media, is the declaration of independence by Kosovo 2 weeks ago. If you followed American politics, you'd never even know it happened. Yet in the larger world, it's an incredibly destabilizing event. (Needless to say, the US is a driving force on the wrong side of this issue, as usual.)

Are any protest planned at israeli embassies?

Don't forget McCain or his daddy Admiral McCain who was complicint in the USS Liberty incident.

voxclanamtis,

Yes, it is legitimate. The letter is dated January 22 when the UN security council was trying to get a resolution condemning the Israeli blockade. It has been spread widely around US Jewish web sites as evidence that Obama is on their side. While I can's cite the story, I read a story (in Al Jazeera's website, it think) where a spokesperson from Obama Senate office confirmed it.

It is also very credible simply in that there is nothing remarkable about it - it is merely reiterating the viewpoints of the overwhelming majority of the US congress.

Since when is Obama trying to get the Peace vote?

He is going after the "bring the troops home - only from Iraq - and only the combat troops" vote. Like most of the US Congress he is all for Peace in Palestrine - the peace of complete Israeli subjugation, like say, the peace that finally prevailed over Pine Ridge Reservation after the Wounded Knee Massacre.

This may be the defining question of foreign policy. Can a US President not be a servant to right wing Israeli and militaristist foreign policy? Israeli human rights abuses are plain to see for most of the world. Yet they continue to be ignored as shown in this article. Two days ago there was a Hollywood celebrity event in solidarity with the suffering people of Sderot. Sylvester Stallone and Jon Voigt etc.. McCain, Hillary and Obama all sent their video salutes to the event. In the absence of a word of empathy for the vastly greater suffering by Gazans, this is racism and hypocrisy. The pressure is being cranked up on Obama ... and it is plain to see at www.haaretz.com The coming weeks and months will show whether he really has character and integrity or not. If he plays it smart, he will start associating himself with pro peace and progressive Jews and Israelis ... and start to question Israeli human rights abuses and crimes.

It's completely genuine...the truth is, there is no way to tell what Obama's true feelings are about the Palestinians, or even if he would be able to do anything about it. As some have mentioned here before, it would be impossible for Obama to stand up for Palestinians and win the election, that's just the truth, so he can't. Even if he tries if he becomes president, there is no way of telling if he will be able to accomplish anything...sad situation, but the only hope is for Muslims, Arabs, all third world nations etc. to unite and force change.

As an American Jew I am appalled that in the state of Israel there seems to be no difference between what was known as
"the master race" and "the chosen people".

As a non-Jew, I myself have trouble with such a distinction. If someone of a particular ethnic group believed that they are a "God chosen people, it must follow that God would choose them for some kind of superior racial characteristics; right? Or alternatively, being a God-chosen people would lead one to conclude that ones opinion on a matter is more important than someone from a non-chosen group, since being chosen by God would basically make one a spokesman for God; correct?

So perhaps, just as Christians have a lot of nonsense they could get rid of that get in the way of Jesus's simple humanistic teachings, maybe Jews should consider quietly dropping this "God chosen poeple" stuff.

That's one reason I'll not be voting for either Hillary or Obama. Of course no question about McCain.

Instead of thinking lesser of the two evils think

"NEITHER OF THE TWO EVILS"

USAn

Is this a hoax? Is this for real? Why would Obama publicly align himself with belligerent assholes when he's trying to go after the peace vote? I doubt whether this is a geniune letter. Can anyone confirm it?

Yes John, there seems to be no concern by the three front running candidates on the fate of the Palestinians, or the moral issue of simple human rights, no questions are asked of them, that is verboten, or of the apartheid and racist state of Israel.
As an American Jew I am appalled that in the state of Israel there seems to be no difference between what was known as
"the master race" and "the chosen people".
Yet there remains the number one question in America for the candidates that is unasked and unanswered, it is the subject that has recieved more air time, print and on-line
space: What is their take on BRITTANY SPEARS?
I am a concerned citizen and I want to know!

Watch Al Jazerra to get another perspective. If you can't get it go to the web site. Tell your friends.

Israeli policy is off limits to candidates. Only the president can talk about it. Everyone else must just accept and be happy. Our current Congress is occupied Israeli territory.
Hoa binh

We could solve this crisis in one day if the US simply told Israel that their special status was over and they would henceforth be treated as just another country.

But, with US help and with the generous checks from millions of US Jews in thousands of synagogues, Israel has the Palestinians under their thumb, and their 60-year ethnic cleansing/genocide project is nearing completion. So why should Israel negotiate???

In light of Obama's pro-Israel statements last week, I absolutely could never vote for him, or any other candidate.

Due to Pennsylvania's profoundly undemocratic, onerous ballot-petition system, and dirty tricks on the part of the democrats, there is little hope of Nader being on the ballot, and only slightly better odds of McKinney appearing on the ballot. But I will be making a few phone calls to some Green party organizers and will work like hell collecting signatures so we have a shot of at least getting McKinney on the ballot.

So much for Obama the bringer of hope and change.

This, among other reasons is why I will not vote for Obama, Billary, nor McCain. They are bought and paid for by AIPAC. To me it is tragic that no one will hold Israel accountable for war crimes, like its corrupt cohort, the United States.

Our Zionists made sure of that.

The terrible Israeli raids on Gaza look very like that militant government seizing a last opportunity to inflict major damage before the rules begin to change - that's my most hopeful assessment of a bloody and onesided battle. It is truly sickening to see all of the major tv news, including the BBC taking a pro-Israel stance in this carnage; they have no shame.

Israel will invade Lebanon this summer--and it may be used as a pretext to attack iran--since no one in the US(and Europe) will say anything against Israel.

It is bizarre--especially when many of those countries have large Muslim populations.

Supporting suicidal idiots like the Israelis doesnt make much sense domestically.

Israel: the great global trouble maker(the US is first but since Israel is so tiny the amount of trouble it causes is extraordinary).

The are not going to touch this with a ten foot pole. Any mention of Palestine, even concern for civilian casualties would be instantly controversial. We've reached a point where we can't even talk about Palestinians as human beings, and there is no mainstream politician who has the courage to address this issue fair and square. It's hugely demoralizing for those looking for some iota of change, but I guess we should have realized long ago, that on issues of Empire and the Middle East, there is little difference between the candidates.

Moreover, Obama has successfully suppressed his past concern for Palestine. For someone banking on hope and change, he certainly has shown extreme cowardice on this issue. Hillary is a lost case altogether.

This is why I want Nader in the debate.
He talks about things the other candidates won't touch.

But but but the people on the TV say if I pull the right lever on election day like a good doggie everything will be all right!