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Nader Runs, Obama Responds Wisely
Ralph Nader is running again for president.
After four previous bids, mounted in varying forums and with varying goals, Nader is used to the slings and arrows that will be tossed his way. He is conscious and committed. He will not back off.
He knows how to campaign in the face of a firestorm of criticism.
Above all, he knows how to make himself heard -- even when almost everyone who guides the political processes of the nation wants to shut him up.
The latter knowledge will serve him well in a 2008 contest where the man who is either a national treasure or a national frustration, or perhaps both, may find himself more marginalized than ever before.
Nader is running for the same reason he has run in the past: Because the likely nominees of the two major parties do not begin to meet the standards that might reasonably be asked of progressive contenders in 21st-century America.
Fundamental issues -- Wall Street-defined globalization, rampant and frequently deadly corporate crime, out-of-control military spending and an imperial foreign policy -- are not going to be addressed in a realistic let alone definitional manner by the Democratic nominee (be he Barack Obama or be she Hillary Clinton) or by Republican John McCain. And that, says Nader, will leave millions of Americans feeling frustrated and disenfranchised.
"You take that framework of people feeling locked out, shut out, marginalized and disrespected," he explained on NBC's "Meet the Press," the same forum where he announced his 2004 presidential run. "You go from Iraq, to Palestine to Israel, from Enron to Wall Street, from Katrina to the bumbling of the Bush administration, to the complicity of the Democrats in not stopping him on the war, stopping him on the tax cuts."
Nader's points are all well taken.
And they come from a man who is quite rational in his awareness that he will not be sworn in as president on January 20, 2009.
While Nader has yet to determine whether he will run as the Green Party candidate, a Green-backed independent or a genuinely unaffiliated independent, he is clear about his chances.
The arc of history bends toward Obama and the Democrats, not his candidacy, acknowledges Nader.
After eight years of George Bush and Dick Cheney, he said, "If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up, close down, emerge in a different form. You think the American people are going to vote for a pro-war John McCain who almost gives an indication he's the candidate for perpetual war?"
Presumably, the Democratic landslide that buries McCain will also sweep away various and sundry third-party and independent candidacies, including Nader's.
If that is the case, it will not be a new phenomenon.
Nader has bid for the presidency in different ways in every election since 1992 -- as a write-in candidate in the New Hampshire and Massachusetts primaries of that year, as a Green contender in 1996 and 2000 and as an independent with support from some of what remained of Ross Perot's Reform Party in 2004. His most notable run, in 2000, won 2.7 percent of the national vote, along with anger from Democrats who thought he "spoiled" their chances by tipping Florida -- and the presidency -- from Al Gore to George Bush. In fact, Gore won Florida, only to have the results manipulated into Bush's column by the Republican nominee's many allies in state government, with an assist from the Supreme Court.
In the intense 2004 competition between Bush and Democratic John Kerry, Nader's run won just 0.3 percent on 34 state ballot lines.
This year, Nader could have a harder time of it even than he did in 2000 or 2004.
Unlike Gore and Kerry, Obama -- now the likely Democratic nominee -- has taken savvier stands on a number of issues close to Nader's heart, such as trade policy. This is not to say that Obama is as good as Nader on the issues. Far from it. But Obama's more nuanced platform, as well as the movement character of the Illinois senator's campaign, is likely to leave even less space for Nader to deliver a message.
That said, Nader is a determined, sometimes unrelenting, truth teller.
He notes that Obama is something less than a pristine progressive.
Obama may be "the first liberal evangelist in a long time," says Nader, but the senator's "better instincts and knowledge have been censored" since he hit the nation stage.
"(Obama's) leaned, if anything, toward the pro-corporate side of policy-making," Nader said of the senator from Illinois. The consumer activist also scored Obama on on foreign policy, noting that, "He was pro-Palestinian when he was in Illinois... Now he's supporting (right-wing Israeli policies that thwart progress toward peace in the Middle East)."
Such blunt statements may not win Nader many friends among Obama's enthusiastic backers, and Obama did not exactly welcome his new rival to the race. "Ralph Nader deserves enormous credit for the work he did as a consumer advocate," Mr. Obama said while campaigning in Ohio "But his function as a perennial candidate is not putting food on the table of workers."
But Nader's not looking for Valentines from the Democrats.
Frankly, he's not even all that interested in popular approval.
The public-interest crusader worries far less about poll numbers and even vote totals than about saying what he feels needs to be said -- and using the forum of the electoral process to say it. And he is certainly not the first progressive -- inside the Democratic Party or out -- to suggest that Obama needs to be prodded on issues ranging from labor law to corporate regulation to single-payer health care and Middle East policy.
Nader's greatest value in any race is -- like Socialist Norman Thomas in his races against Democratic Franklin Roosevelt -- as a source of pressure on the Democratic nominee to address fundamental questions and perhaps to take more progressive stands on a few issues. As in 2000 and 2004, Nader's appeal will be determined in large part by the extent to which the Democratic candidate is willing to be bold.
Obama seems to understands this. Unlike Gore or Kerry, who never quite "got" the point of Nader's runs in 2000 and 2004, the Illinois senator appears to recognize that it is pointless to grumble about Ralph Nader as a "spoiler." Rather, the point is to be more appealing to progressive voters who might consider voting Green or independent.
"I think the job of the Democratic Party is to be so compelling that a few percentage [points] of the vote going to another candidate is not going to make any difference," says Obama.
That is the bottom line with regard to Nader's latest bid.
If Obama runs as a progressive, Nader will have little room to maneuver. If Obama runs to the center, Nader's space will open up -- a bit.
John Nichols' new book is The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders' Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson hails it as a "nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the 'heroic medicine' that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"
Copyright © 2008 The Nation
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138 Comments so far
Show AllNader - I am with you. Run and expose the Dems.
citizen1
What good is running and exposing the Dems if you are so puny that you'll only end up preaching to the choir at best and spoiling things at worst? Think systemic change, not little cults of personality.
To all you Nader haters: Florida was a done deal with or without Nader. Didn't you see the smug smirks on the row of Bush family faces lined up on their couch even when Gore was supposedly ahead on election night? It wasn't over until the counting was done and they had that in the bag. It's more comfortable to blame Ralph than the complicity of the Democrats for our corrupt electoral process. And what have they done to fix it in the last two years? Allowed Bush's politicized Justice Department to strip "questionable" voters from voting rolls and make it expensive and difficult to register unless you are reasonably affluent.
The only rational explanation for the behavior of people like Gore and Pelosi is that they've been bought or received death threats.
kathyodat
To those pathetic souls who presist in thinking that things would have been better in 00 if Ralph hadn't been in the race I have two words for you JOE LIEBERMAN !!!that leopard hasn't changed his spots he is still the same repugnant zionist gangster that he is today now he is
supporting McCain so I guess you would have the same outcome as you fear today.
It must be said that the Republicans stand up for their core constituents as repugnant as they are, the socipathic greedocrats and the utterly brain dead, that is more than the Democrats do, they show utter contempt for their core constituents and only bow down to their corporate sponcers, I guess money talks!
With all the trouble that McCain is having I hope that the candicy of Ron Paul will have a jolt, as his followers are hard core,I am only hoping that between Ron Paul and the Green party or Ralph they will form a vice that would be able to lance the toxic puss pocket of the
DLC zionis gangsters that controle what is now known as the Democratic party.
Oh yes I saw this campaign for Oboma
HOPE
CHANGE
YES
WE CAN
translation
if you find an old CAN you HOPE that you
you will be offered some CHANGE for it.
Ralph Nader is a national treasure. His work as a consumer advocate probably saved as many lives as the Bush administration has destroyed. And John Nichols's analysis is spot on. Americans need Ralph Nader to remind them what integrity looks like.
I hope Obama will always speak of Nader with respect for Nader's long and effective history of advocacy and accomplishments on the public's behalf. Don't laugh at Nader. Don't ever mock him. His record of public service prior to his presidential runs is too long, real, and genuine. This should never be disparaged, never be forgotten. I hope Obama takes the high road with Nader, never refuses to take a phone call from him, always treats him publicly and privately with respect and dignity. If Nader delivers some body blows, think of it like the court jester of a medieval court criticizing the king, or like a biblical prophet of old walking into the king's court, speaking truths that no one else could or dared. Answer him respectfully or don't answer him, but don't answer with ridicule. There are millions of Americans of all stripes, both Democrats and grassroots Republicans, perhaps older with memories of the earlier Nader, who don't vote for Nader but who respect Nader. Not for his presidential runs, but for his long list of real, substantive accomplishments apart from that, for his truth-telling about corporate power. (For those who don't know Nader's truly breathtaking honorable track record, do some research before mocking this American hero, this modern Thomas Paine.) Democrats, mock Nader and it will boomerang and lessen Democrat standing among grassroots America.
I doubt Nader will draw much more this time than in 2004, for the simple reason that people motivated to vote this year are for the most part (CD posters being unrepresentative on this point) not going to go outside the two major party choices. It is just too damn scary for a huge part of America to risk a continuation of the nightmare Bush-Cheney era (which is what a McCain presidency will mean).
And there is speculation--at least according to what I heard on POTUS radio today--that Ron Paul could run after all in the general election--on the Libertarian ticket. Paul has deep pockets of money and has proven vote-pulling power. If Ron Paul runs as Libertarian, he will peel substantial votes from McCain. Nader will be a minor effect on Obama's votes, but Ron Paul would be a major effect on McCain's votes. Although Ron Paul and Libertarians are traditionally a wing of the Republicans in terms of core sympathies (pro-civil liberties Old Right) and disagree with Democrats on domestic issues, it would not surprise me in the least if Ron Paul personally, as well as at least half of thinking libertarians in 2008, considers a McCain victory more threatening than an Obama victory--in spite of McCain being the Republican and Obama being the Democrat. Ron Paul would be doing a public service in a big, big way if he runs as Libertarian and in so doing helps ensure an historic, overwhelming Obama victory.
Earthbound, 9:48 pm: I think you've SAID IT ALL, in one sentence:
"Whoever is elected, the bottom line will be how we organize and pressure the party/people in power to represent the needs of the common person, instead of corporations."
Let's not waste our votes on Ralph. Let's do just what Earthbound urges us to do!
An even wiser response by Obama would be to ask John Edwards to be his VP. Edwards is close enough to the Nadar message that those who are tempted by the VERY REAL AND COMPELLING ISSUES that Nadar represents might continue to back Obama. For some of us that originally endorsed Edwards, it is still a little hard to get excited about Obama. I know from history that a Nadar ticket would divide the wrong people. If I were to vote for him, it would actually benefit Clinton, HOWEVER, it is hard not to vote for someone who GETS THE BIG ISSUES! PLEASE OBAMA...GET EDWARDS ON THE TICKET...IT COULD ONLY BE GOOD FOR YOUR CAMPAIGN AND THE COUNTRY! THANK YOU!
The present electoral system in the US is corrupt from top to bottom. You name it, electoral college (should be called 'electoral retard school'), corporate money, special interests, etc., how could the voice of the common man ever expected to be heard? And the sheeple keep voting for essentially the same idiots. Let's face it, they're/we're terrified to go outside the box for 'real' solutions. Though we feel trapped and exploited, we are afraid to make the leap away from the status quo, especially when it's packaged in such a 'feel good' candidate as Obama, who really only apologetically promises more of the same. Obama, like almost all the Dems, only want to 'tweak the pig,' not abolish the corruption of which they are part. Perhaps Nader deserves a second look. If there were a Nader/Edwards ticket, would that even be enough to break the spell? Fun to think about anyway :)
Edwards On the Obama ticket just might get Nader to drop out....Good point disenchanted!
Let's remember that even if Obama were to become president. without a majority of democrats in
congress, he won't get much done.
Many have mentioned it's great to have another voice in the debates, but Unfortunately Ralph doesn't get the media attention he deserves (with his points as the issue, instead of "being the spoiler" etc). Will he be allowed in future debates? If he isn't will he be threatened with arrest again if he comes on the campus property where the debates are being held just to view the debates or do an interview? Anything and everything is done to keep his voice from the people.
How can we get him into the televised debates for the public to see and hear? Mass protests outside where the debates are to be?
may find himself more marginalized than ever before.
Get lost, John Nichols. This is the day of the progressive.
if democratic participation is the goal and our goal is to influence the contest, we should all contact bloomberg and encourage him to run to broaden the political discourse, even if we planned on voting for nader or obama. paul, mckinney, nader, bloomberg (anyone like r perot who can afford millions of dollars to exercise their first amendment rights) all should be included in the political race (speeches, debates, fund raisers) in the next 8 months.
if clinton uses political influence to steal the election (via super delegates), i see the potential death of the democratic party. at that moment all the third party candidates mentioned above plus obama if he runs as an independent (change we can believe in, a chance to alter history - renunciation of the dlc) would have a legitimate chance to win (or anyone with oodles of money, like spielberg).
vote your conscience,help build a real coalition.
please donate to kucinich and sheehan......................
there was a good discussion of third party politics today on washington journal (CSPAN)(2/25/08 minutes 1.00-1.30)with Douglas Schoen author of Declaring Independence: The Beginning of the End of the Two-Party System........
SG,
Nothing like complaining about the people complaining!
If you know anything about movements, you'd recognize that movements that don't "grow up" into *responsible political parties* will always fracture into insignificance and/or have their messages co-opted by one of the existing parties. The Left doesn't need another movement. It needs a real political party that at least *resembles* the opinions of its members. It's been 30 years of the art of "compromise" within the DNC. Time to try compromise inside another party.
Nichols lacks the courage to urge voters to vote for Nader. He seems to recognize Nader's postions are better. What is stopping him from a clear celebration of a person entering the race who has the best positions on the issues?
Mr. Nichols you nailed it with this excellent analysis! Yea buddy!
"This is not to say that Obama is as good as Nader on the issues."
Wow, lots of good progressive bloggers out there tonight. Yesterday the Dims were breathing fire in there rage against Ralph.
I was having dinner with my apolitical girlfriend tonight and I pointed out that when a Republican walks into a room where a Democrat is seated the Democrat quickly stands up, bends over and wraps his thumbs around his ankles. When Raplh Nader walks into a room with a Democrat the Dim erupts in a lather of vitriol, hatred and hostility worthy of weaponized anthax spores. I said, "I wonder why that is?"
My girlfriend responded, "It's because he tells them the truth!" I high-fived her and complimented her on her insightful comment. I get it now. Nader will expose and rip the "progressive" mask off Obama and the Democrats. That's why they hate him. That's the truth.
The Democrats have gotten along so mightily with their erstwhile enemies the Repugs because they thrive in a symbiotic relationship. The Republicans provide cover for the Dims by making them seem progressive by contrast even as they both lurch more and more to the right, election after election. The Democrats pretend to oppose them with token votes against measures when they know it's going to pass anyway. If there any chance the measure can't pass if they vote against it Obama and Clinton simply don't vote. Check their records if you don't believe me.
In all the really important matters like Supreme Court Judge appointments, important posts, war, torture, spying on Americans and just generally craping all over the constitution the Dims have done nothing but deliver.
I am so glad Ralph is running because now those of us fed up with the two party duopoly finally get a voice after having to listen to all this crap like "Hope", "Yes we can!" and yes we will continue the war by keeping 1,000s of troops in Iraq to fight and die for empire and Big Oil. Raplh is the perenial truth-teller. Run Democrats, RUN!
Thanks Ralph Nader, GIVE THEM HELL! GIVE THEM F^&KING HELL!
I have a lot of respect for Nader, but I don't understand his obsession with the presidency to the exclusion of any other elected office. Why doesn't he run for a congressional seat?
I'm glad Nader is running. I may vote for him if I don't like the two big party candidates.
Quoting Spiny Norman, COMarc writes:
"'It is fine for Nader to run, but the problem is that our voting system is not good for 3 parties. One of the voting reforms we need is for some kind of alternative voting system, like instant runoff voting or preferential voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting'
I agree, but how are you going to get it?
The Dems certainly won't give it to you. They like the current system and their monopoly position just fine."
Maybe the Dems do like it, COMarc - I wouldn't contest that. But I'm not sure exactly why. If there had been preferential voting in Florida in 2000, most of Nader's votes would have "flowed" (as the Australians, who use preferential voting, say) to Gore, and there would have been no Bush-calamity - neither for the Democrats, nor for the nation.
The solution to creating a multiparty democracy is Single Transferable Voting. Barack Obama is the only candidate, including Dennis Kucinich, who ever authored legislation on Single Transferable Voting.
http://fairvote.org/?page=1755
Read Bob Herbert's column: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/opinion/26herbert.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
Nader's idea of a Democratic landslide is based on a misperception of the electorate and all the factors which may make this election much closer than anyone here seems to think. This leaves two ways of looking at the situation:
1) Getting the extremist neocons, warmongers, fearmongers and otherwise greedy bastards out of power is paramount to even beginning to turn this ship around, and since the math is too risky to predict, any factor that can even remotely endanger the democrats chances of gaining the White House is an unnecessary, if not a suicidally masochistic risk.
Ralph, thanks for all you've done, but please go away now.
2) Whatever. Four years from now whoever's in the White House will own all the problems Bush gifted him (or her). No one can really fix this FUBAR situation, so there's something to be said for allowing the Repubs to dig their hole deeper. Maybe a little more carnage will wake the right wing zombies up.
So knock yourself out there, Ralph.
Personally, as I have a son approaching draft age, I prefer number one. The math is the math. Any vote for Nader might just as well be a vote for McCain and his 100 years war. Every vote for Nader in 2000 counted, no matter the rhetoric of Nader's apologists, and helped give us the neocon agenda.
Addition and subtraction. Don't forget to carry the numbers.
Well there are no signs of the much-heralded Nader bashing foretold in the first comments. Are we more civilized than that now? Or do we no longer worry? Perhaps we should?
I don't dislike Nader. I never did. Quite the contrary, he inspired me as no other public figure did when I was a young American. Ah but he was a "public" figure, not a politician. He showed me that a citizen can make a difference and in that regard, he did more than just change legislation, he gave me and millions of others faith in democracy at a time of great apathy.
Here's what I have always wanted to know? How can anyone look at Nader's incredible accomplishments as an activist operating outside of government, actions that are responsible for transformative legislation that in many cases spread beyond the USA and effected the entire world, all of which was accomplished through lobbying the government, and activating grass roots organizations like the PIRGs … and then turn around and say the next logical step in that strategy is for him to run for President? Huh? There's a big disconnect there.
Every one of the initiatives he cited on Tim Russert cannot be accomplished by a mere chief executive (a job by his own admission he can't win) but only through organized and concerted pressure on government by the American people - organized and focused political action, just like he did with many of us years ago.
I just don't get it. None of the candidates are being 100% forthright about their intentions because every one of them wants to reach out to as many diverse constituencies as possible in order to get into office. Is that hypocritical or is it practical? This author claims that Nader's purpose in running is not to win, but to force the candidate's and the party's hands and make Obama a more Progressive candidate? Will that actually "bring us all together?" Can you accept that we are a pluralistic democracy and that there are moderates and conservatives among us, many of whom are leaning to supporting Democrats this year and that such tactics might alienate them?
What the hell is the point of all this? Will his entry really turn Obama to support more progressive ideas more effectively than millions of Americans doing so once he is in office? If Nader's running is successful in doing so, will it provide more ammunition to the Right to characterize the Democratic nominee as too left wing? Why do you think Obama (or any politician) modifies positions once they are running? To expand their base of support. Everyone knows what Democrats stand for and no one will be surprised if it results in a more liberal and progressive leaning administration. But why force this issue now, when there is so much to lose?
Finally, practically speaking, pushing the party now, while they are trying to win can only result in painfully negotiated compromises to the platform. Pushing the Democratic administration after they are victorious though organized grass roots political force can actually change things! It's been proven as it did with Nader's grass root movements once before.
I just don't get all this focus on the Presidency in the first place, especially from Nader who built his career on discrediting the imperial office and pushing government from the outside through organized political action.
Sorry but something is seriously crazy about all this. Are we now a people who have no faith in ourselves and in such activism? Are we treating the Presidency like some kind of Ron Popeil consumer gadget that we elect, put into office and then go away? ("Set it and forget it!")
I don't long for much about the 60's other than that sense of common purpose and shared possibility. Oh and the participation. That was the true essence of it all. Ralph Nader was responsible for a lot of it. What has become of us … and him?
Wait a minute...this "diminshing" quote from Obama is from Meet the Press:
SEN. OBAMA: He had called me, and I think reached out to my campaign--it--my sense is that Mr. Nader is somebody who, if you don't listen and adopt all of his policies, things are not substantive. He seems to have a, a pretty high opinion of, of his, his own work. In many ways, he is a heroic figure, and I don't mean to diminish him. But I do think there's a sense now that, you know, if, if somebody's not hewing to the Ralph Nader agenda, then you, you must be lacking in some way.
You know guys, the reps and the dims are basically in the same boat. The main difference is that the reps don't even pretend to have a heart. Are they the more honest of the 2? Many of us are looking for strength and integrity in honesty. It's so rare in the political field, that when we see it, it stands out (Paul Welstone, anyone?). Obama is another corporate Dem in shades of brown. We're going gaga over the fact that he's the first black this, first black that--and that it's proof that America is transforming itself. Poppycock! Do we want to hear a pep talk, then be screwed down the river again? Don't forget that Hitler was said to be an inspiring orator as well (not comparing the two, just making a point).
Let's keep a level head and not let ourselves be carried away on the wings of fluffy rhetoric. Real change will be hard work and initially painful because we have a lot of healing to do. And the criminals presently in power will resist it with every fiber of their being.
For example, Hillary warns us that radically modifying or ending NAFTA will result in the loss of more jobs. Initially this is true; there will be less need for Wal-Mart clerks selling 'cheap' crap from China, and it will take awhile to ramp up the production that's already been sent overseas. However, eventually, things will improve and wages will rise as a result. Neither Obama nor Hillary want to radically change NAFTA; they both said that! Are we listening, or just hearing the echo of the word 'change.'
What will it TAKE to wake us up???
Just heard a news report on CNN, where truckers were being interviewed. They're saying that with the recent spike in gas prices, that it's becoming less worthwhile to transport goods because compensation is not keeping pace with the higher prices. Keep in mind that the recent spike in gas prices has been attributed to Wall Street speculation!
Nader wants to tax Wall Street profits before raising other taxes:
"We have the worst tax system, perverse incentives that rewards the speculators on Wall Street. Why aren't we taxing speculation on Wall Street instead of heavily taxing human labor and sales taxing necessities like food and appliances and furniture and clothing? There's no debate on this."
Nader from the Russet interview.
Go Ralph!
walt wrote: "Well there are no signs of the much-heralded Nader bashing foretold in the first comments."
If only that were so, walt, but you must have missed the comments immediately prior to yours. Lies that have grown stale through the years never lose their freshness to a truly impervious mind.
These are sorts of rebuttals that I daresay many of us could make in our sleep by now.
Clemsy (February 26th, 2008 6:17 am) asserts:
"Getting the extremist neocons ... out of power is paramount to even beginning to turn this ship around, and ... any factor that can even remotely endanger the democrats chances of gaining the White House is an unnecessary, if not a suicidally masochistic risk."
The evidence is that both major parties have signed on to the neocon agenda and supported and funded it every step of the way. Therefore, this assertion is false.
Next?
"Any vote for Nader might just as well be a vote for McCain and his 100 years war."
False again. Votes for candidates who support war are not the same as votes for candidates who oppose war. Further, Democrats do not enjoy a proprietary claim on anyone's vote simply by existing as not-Republicans. This comments reveals a tragic misunderstanding of representative democracy, as well as numbers higher than two.
Next?
"Every vote for Nader in 2000 counted, no matter the rhetoric of Nader's apologists, and helped give us the neocon agenda."
Notwithstanding that the writer confesses here his imperviousness to the facts, the facts still matter. The neocon agenda was achieved first through electoral fraud and second with bipartisan cooperation. Neither of those things were caused by Nader's 2000 campaign, and endless repetition makes the claim no truer than before.
One wonders what supporters of neoconservative policies (delivered with a capital D) are doing on a progressive board.
At last an actual name that one can write across the ballot of this 2-faced fascist machine into which we've "progressed"....Yeah, I'm still getting over Kucinich's walk-out and what the DNC did/is doing to ruin him now. I'll take Nader any day....
dougnwagner, thanks for the heads up about Obama sponsoring an IRV bill in the Illinois Senate. That's good to know about him. I never swallowed the idea that he and Hillary are essentially alike. She's a neocon, who I hear is trying on a populist life jacket to see if it can lift her campaign off the bottom of the ocean. At least she won't fool the corporations who are very comfortable funding her - except they don't like backing losers. Sorry, Hillary.
kathyodat
It will certainly be enlightening to observe how Ralph Nader is treated in regard to media coverage, participation in debates, dirty tricks, roadblocks to his ballot access. This is where our "democratic" institutions will be put to the test...and exposed as ANTI-democratic.
It should be equally interesting to see how Obama and McCain (the putative major party candidates) will respond to Nader and his issues. We saw how Nader was treated in the last two campaigns...but it seems few people paid any attention.
I hope Ralph Nader can shake up the political process the way it needs to be shaken up...then maybe people will begin to ask themselves--and others--WHY this 'democracy' of our's has allowed itself to be so corrupted that progressive voices are not allowed to be heard.
GO RALPH...GO!!!!!
Nader is kinda like that old celebrity that tries to rekindle the old lime light at inappropriate times, while his true friends fail to pull him aside and tell him enough is enough.
Sadly enough people tend to remember the old crazy guy trying to get attention than the astute consumer advocate.
Ralph, could you please go over to the corner and behave yourself?
Ralph Nader is still a national treasure and a hero in spite of all the posters above trying to blame him for all the shortcomings within the Democratic party. Exactly what has this party done to earn our loyalty besides not calling themselves Republicans? Now Nancy Pelosi and the DNC is trying to lynch Kucinich. Lucky us to have such good friends. Let's just vote for them, like, you know, my party right or wrong. Screw that.
You people bashing Nader make me think of enablers buying drinks for drunks. And with our money as well. Don't blame Nader, he gives me a reason to vote. It so happens I'm not voting for him, for once, but I'm still happy to see him in the race. Why do you people think our choices should be limited? It's like living in Stalin's Soviet Union. Some democracy. In name only if you people had your way.
And whatever, there was a stinking third party candidate who won an election inthis country. His name was Abraham Lincoln. Read your history.
kathyodat
Four things:
1. This is a great article, and illustrates exactly what Nader is trying to do when he runs: force the dems to go to the left. So it's good that Nader is running, even though he isn't going to win, because we need the dems to go to the left.
2. It would be great to have proportional representation and instant run-off voting, but there's no way that's going to happen because it wouldn't be to the advantage of either the dems or the repubs.
3. Barack Obama is doing what has to be done to get elected in this country. If he ran like Nader or Kucinich, that is, openly and honestly about progressive issues, he wouldn't stand a chance.
4. kathyodat is right when she says that Lincoln ran third-party for his second term, but he created the third party he ran in for the purpose of uniting the country, after having been a very popular Republican President. Barack Obama could do that for his second term, if he gets elected for a first term AND if he becomes very popular during his first term, if he had the guts. But I wouldn't blame him if he didn't. After all, look what happened to Lincoln.
ticonderoga,
I think we need to get beyond a left/right analysis. Nader got the Reform Party endorsement in '04.
It would be interesting to study how Australia got IRV, and whether we want to go that route -- or Range instead. The problem with IRV is how you present more than about 4-5+ choices. You'd need people to carefully indicate a unique value for each, in non-erasable ink, and reject any ballots that didn't have precisely as many unique numbers as you allowed to rank. Range is simpler, and more comprehensive, allows ties also. Allow people to score 0-10 as many people (independently) as they wish.
As for Barak needing to campaign as a closet-progressive, I certainly would not bank on that. It would be an historical first.
I'm not banking on Obama doing as you said. I only pointed out that he could do it, if he dared (and if he wanted to).
But I certainly would like to find out how Australia managed to get instant run-off voting. In fact, it would be interesting to find out why the US is just about the only country in the world that has a winner-take-all voting system.
And for the Range thing, I'm not sure what that is, so I'll look it up. Thank you.
Paul Bramscher, any way you look at it, Barack is an historic first. And I still think he's a closet progressive. I don't generally gamble and I'm not a wishful thinker. I admit I could be wrong but I don't think so. It's true, I really don't think I have anything to lose here. Look at our choices. But I'd be voting for Ralph if I thought he was another Hillary.
kathyodat
The Super Bowl of our Lives!
Fundamental change in the system must come from the People.
As long as special interests control our Government we will live in a Cor'pirate' Dictatorship.
The One/Two party system is flawed at best.
We need more and deserve more than this:
Elephant and Donkey Show.
Change must come from with-out.
Only after we become more Peaceful, Neighborly, Cooperative, Patient and Loving, will our government be.
As long as we expect and accept less: the longer things will stay the same.
We need a more inclusive, open, accountable Government with redefined Goals, Ideals and Purpose.
A Government for and by the People instead of for and by The Corporations.
As far a Nader goes.
I welcome him.
He will raise some interesting questions.
The question is?
Why does he get Air time and the support from The Corpirates?
This is plain to see.
They use him as a spoiler.
The Faux Media controls the questions and frames the debate.
For their own benefit.
He unwittingly attacks the Democratic Candidate with little blow back going in direction of The Republican Party.
His message is dated and obsolete.
We all know that!
We must go further.
Ralph never lost an election for us.
They stole them.
Will we let it happen again?
What is Rovian and his minions working on right now?
Stealing the 2008 election.
As long as he delivers,
We loose.
This is the real SUPERBOWL.
The Super Bowl of our lives.
It's overtime!
No umpires!
No excuses.
and
No explanations.
Will we let it happen again
John Nichols, cut the crap, k?
You and your cruise-missile-liberals over at "The Nation" need a reality check.
"The Nation," a self-proclaimed progressive periodical, came out in support of Obama, but Obama is hardly a progressive. He's bought and paid for with the same corporate loot that all the other finalists for the presidency have been bought and paid for.
And you know it.
Now along comes Ralph Nader and his announcement as a presidential candidate and, knowing that Nader represents "the real thing" -- i.e., REAL progressive political values -- and not wanting to "screw the pooch" by admitting that there's an inherent contraction between The Nation's support of Obama and its phony embracing of progressive values -- not wanting to admit that, you write a fence-straddling article about Ralph Nader vis-a-vis the Obama candidacy.
You phony liberal! You coward!
Nowhere in your article do you point out that you and your phony liberal lunchmates are going to vote for Obama or Hillary or any other corporate-approved Democratic candidate that comes down the pike.
Consider how you close your article, you write:
"If Obama runs as a progressive, Nader will have little room to maneuver. If Obama runs to the center, Nader's space will open up — a bit."
Well, there it is, John-boy, you've said it all right there! In other words, a presidential candidate can be one thing under some circumstances and quite another thing under other circumstances. ... Can you imagine saying about Ralph Nader: "If he runs from the left he can blah blah, blah, BUT, b-b-b-b-ut if he runs to the center he can blah, blah, blah." ... Excuse me but where exactly does a candidate's stand on issues and THEIR ACTUAL VOTING RECORD come into play, John-o? Hmmm. Do they have any relevance?
You konw Obama and Hillary's voting record. Don't you think that that voting record juxtaposed to what Ralph Nder stands for should have SOME place in an article about Nader's presidential candidacy???
Put another way, because I know this is soooooooo hard for you to understand -- Where exactly do *principles* fit into your little chess game? Eh?
The best description I heard of Obama is that he's an "empty suit." Then again, an empty suit can be all things ot all people. (MOVE LEFT! OK, NOW MOVE RIGHT!!) Just so long as he wins, right? Then he'll do what he damn well pleases.
Oh how many Democratic "saviors" there have been! Jimmy Carter was gonna ride into Dodge/Washington and clean things up. NOT.
Then the all-new shiny-clean 1992 Bill Clinton model was gonna be The Great White Liberal Hope. NOT.
And what about "our Hamlet," our savior-- JFK. Oh, if only he had lived! Everything would have been so different!!!
But take heart, John-Boy, if Obama wins, you and your phony progressives can have "access" to all those connected Democrats on K Street and thereabouts and celebrate how "we" got the White House back ... while not one damn thing will fundamentally changed.
Obama, the candidate your rag supports, recently pledged 6 billion dollars to rebuild the infrastructure ... if he's elected president. A few days latter the Society of Civil Engineers esitmated the bill at 1.5 *trillion* dollars.
Then there are the issues of torture and wiretapping and Diebold and the TRILLIONS of dollars being spent on Iraq and impeachment and corporate criminality and the weakening of labor and environment laws and on and on. ... And Obama has nothing to say about any of that.
He's for change but he's not going to change the status quo, is he? Wanna see hwo fast his corporate paymasters turn on him if he has a "Jimmy Stewart/Mister Obama Goes to Washington" epiphany?
And along comes your cute little article making nice-nice with Ralph Nader --"advising" Obama (your guy; though Hillary will do in a pinch) -- advising Obama on how to "handle" Ralph Nader. Move to the left, move to the center. No wait, move right, now left again. ... Gee, somehow I thought progressives were supposed to actually STAND for something, instead of moving where it's political expedient to move.
The right is awful but at least we know they want to move the country further and further to the right, but phony progressives, cruise- missile-liberals like you and your ilk are the accomodating, rationalizing, strategizing, "realistic" clowns who let them have their way.
If anyone wants to know what "The Nation's" true colors are read the following article entitled
"The Nation urges Cindy Sheehan not to run for Congress against Nancy Pelosi."
Quoting from that article:
"The Democrats in Congress were politically complicit in the preparations for war in Iraq and the March 2003 invasion itself, and they remain complicit in the ongoing neo-colonial occupation. ...
"The Nation's immediate task is to sanitize whichever one of the right-wing candidates gains the Democratic Party 2008 presidential nomination and present him or her to its readership in "left" colors. The editorial staff's distaste for Hillary Clinton -- or, more precisely, fears about her lack of credibility due to her reactionary track record -- will not prevent them from climbing on board Clinton's campaign band-wagon should she be the chosen nominee. ...
"The Nation and its writers speak for a privileged layer of American society, which views the ascension of the Democrats as desirable for the advancement of its own interests. Sheehan reflects something different, the growth of antiwar and left-wing sentiment within the working population, and an increasing alienation from the two-party system."
Not for Nader. Not for Cindy Sheehan. Not for giving up your place in "a privileged layer of American society." ... But of course not. "The Nation" has been playing with the same loaded dice for years.
Here's the entire article on Cindy Sheehan. Take it to heart if you ever decide to give up your table at Trader Vic's --
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/aug2007/shee-a23.shtml
Great article by Nichols.
He correctly states:
"Fundamental issues — Wall Street-defined globalization, rampant and frequently deadly corporate crime, out-of-control military spending and an imperial foreign policy — are not going to be addressed in a realistic let alone definitional manner by the Democratic nominee (be he Barack Obama or be she Hillary Clinton) or by Republican John McCain. And that, says Nader, will leave millions of Americans feeling frustrated and disenfranchised."
Nichols could easily add to imperial foreign wars, military spending and corporate crimes, all additional problems (both foreign and domestic) of spying, tyranny, economic oppression, raping the environment, destroying democracy, and many more --- all caused by this corporatist EMPIRE.
Think about it for a moment. All our problems have a singular common source ---- Empire.
Nader's greatest contribution would be to define the key source causing of all these problems and "sorrows of Empire" as being just that --- caused by a hidden corporatist Empire that has overthrown our previous republic and is operating (Ralph would say "occupying Washington") behind the facade of a two-party 'Vichy' government --- just as the Nazi Empire was really hiding behind and controlling 'Vichy France'.
If Ralph explains corporatist 'Empire' as the name of our common nightmare, and pledges to confront that treasonous Empire, then the Democrats will have to either salute and follow, or Ralph will capture all true partiorts' votes.
Either way, it's a win for democracy and the beginning of a Second American Revolutionary War against Empire.