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Nader Runs, Obama Responds Wisely
Ralph Nader is running again for president.
After four previous bids, mounted in varying forums and with varying goals, Nader is used to the slings and arrows that will be tossed his way. He is conscious and committed. He will not back off.
He knows how to campaign in the face of a firestorm of criticism.
Above all, he knows how to make himself heard -- even when almost everyone who guides the political processes of the nation wants to shut him up.
The latter knowledge will serve him well in a 2008 contest where the man who is either a national treasure or a national frustration, or perhaps both, may find himself more marginalized than ever before.
Nader is running for the same reason he has run in the past: Because the likely nominees of the two major parties do not begin to meet the standards that might reasonably be asked of progressive contenders in 21st-century America.
Fundamental issues -- Wall Street-defined globalization, rampant and frequently deadly corporate crime, out-of-control military spending and an imperial foreign policy -- are not going to be addressed in a realistic let alone definitional manner by the Democratic nominee (be he Barack Obama or be she Hillary Clinton) or by Republican John McCain. And that, says Nader, will leave millions of Americans feeling frustrated and disenfranchised.
"You take that framework of people feeling locked out, shut out, marginalized and disrespected," he explained on NBC's "Meet the Press," the same forum where he announced his 2004 presidential run. "You go from Iraq, to Palestine to Israel, from Enron to Wall Street, from Katrina to the bumbling of the Bush administration, to the complicity of the Democrats in not stopping him on the war, stopping him on the tax cuts."
Nader's points are all well taken.
And they come from a man who is quite rational in his awareness that he will not be sworn in as president on January 20, 2009.
While Nader has yet to determine whether he will run as the Green Party candidate, a Green-backed independent or a genuinely unaffiliated independent, he is clear about his chances.
The arc of history bends toward Obama and the Democrats, not his candidacy, acknowledges Nader.
After eight years of George Bush and Dick Cheney, he said, "If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up, close down, emerge in a different form. You think the American people are going to vote for a pro-war John McCain who almost gives an indication he's the candidate for perpetual war?"
Presumably, the Democratic landslide that buries McCain will also sweep away various and sundry third-party and independent candidacies, including Nader's.
If that is the case, it will not be a new phenomenon.
Nader has bid for the presidency in different ways in every election since 1992 -- as a write-in candidate in the New Hampshire and Massachusetts primaries of that year, as a Green contender in 1996 and 2000 and as an independent with support from some of what remained of Ross Perot's Reform Party in 2004. His most notable run, in 2000, won 2.7 percent of the national vote, along with anger from Democrats who thought he "spoiled" their chances by tipping Florida -- and the presidency -- from Al Gore to George Bush. In fact, Gore won Florida, only to have the results manipulated into Bush's column by the Republican nominee's many allies in state government, with an assist from the Supreme Court.
In the intense 2004 competition between Bush and Democratic John Kerry, Nader's run won just 0.3 percent on 34 state ballot lines.
This year, Nader could have a harder time of it even than he did in 2000 or 2004.
Unlike Gore and Kerry, Obama -- now the likely Democratic nominee -- has taken savvier stands on a number of issues close to Nader's heart, such as trade policy. This is not to say that Obama is as good as Nader on the issues. Far from it. But Obama's more nuanced platform, as well as the movement character of the Illinois senator's campaign, is likely to leave even less space for Nader to deliver a message.
That said, Nader is a determined, sometimes unrelenting, truth teller.
He notes that Obama is something less than a pristine progressive.
Obama may be "the first liberal evangelist in a long time," says Nader, but the senator's "better instincts and knowledge have been censored" since he hit the nation stage.
"(Obama's) leaned, if anything, toward the pro-corporate side of policy-making," Nader said of the senator from Illinois. The consumer activist also scored Obama on on foreign policy, noting that, "He was pro-Palestinian when he was in Illinois... Now he's supporting (right-wing Israeli policies that thwart progress toward peace in the Middle East)."
Such blunt statements may not win Nader many friends among Obama's enthusiastic backers, and Obama did not exactly welcome his new rival to the race. "Ralph Nader deserves enormous credit for the work he did as a consumer advocate," Mr. Obama said while campaigning in Ohio "But his function as a perennial candidate is not putting food on the table of workers."
But Nader's not looking for Valentines from the Democrats.
Frankly, he's not even all that interested in popular approval.
The public-interest crusader worries far less about poll numbers and even vote totals than about saying what he feels needs to be said -- and using the forum of the electoral process to say it. And he is certainly not the first progressive -- inside the Democratic Party or out -- to suggest that Obama needs to be prodded on issues ranging from labor law to corporate regulation to single-payer health care and Middle East policy.
Nader's greatest value in any race is -- like Socialist Norman Thomas in his races against Democratic Franklin Roosevelt -- as a source of pressure on the Democratic nominee to address fundamental questions and perhaps to take more progressive stands on a few issues. As in 2000 and 2004, Nader's appeal will be determined in large part by the extent to which the Democratic candidate is willing to be bold.
Obama seems to understands this. Unlike Gore or Kerry, who never quite "got" the point of Nader's runs in 2000 and 2004, the Illinois senator appears to recognize that it is pointless to grumble about Ralph Nader as a "spoiler." Rather, the point is to be more appealing to progressive voters who might consider voting Green or independent.
"I think the job of the Democratic Party is to be so compelling that a few percentage [points] of the vote going to another candidate is not going to make any difference," says Obama.
That is the bottom line with regard to Nader's latest bid.
If Obama runs as a progressive, Nader will have little room to maneuver. If Obama runs to the center, Nader's space will open up -- a bit.
John Nichols' new book is The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders' Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson hails it as a "nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the 'heroic medicine' that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"
Copyright © 2008 The Nation

138 Comments so far
Show AllThis is a solid article by John Nichols. Now let's see how many posters want to say that having more choices for president is a bad thing.
Concur.
Nichols is basically on the mark. Now brace yourselves for the ritualistic orgasm of Nader-bashing.
Or perhaps it is that Nader is too decent for such a citizenry
It is refreshing that Obama isn't pulling the head in the sand trick of Kerry and Gore. Let's see how he continues to deal with the challenge.
We should be overwhelmed with gratitude that Ralph Nader is running! Who is going to speak out the bald truths that Americans need to hear and that we all know are the truths? Obama can at most allude to our dire plight and still have a hope of getting elected (see what happened to Michelle when she blurted out a truth that many of us know all too well.) As Howard Zinn recently said here on Common Dreams, voting is not the bulk of our burden. With Obama in the White House, light will not shine down from the skies, or whatever Hillary said. We must be out there working every day for the foreseeable future for the changes that Nader will present for all to see with his candidacy. How else are Americans going to hear that they are fools being conned? How many people don't even know the names Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Chalmers Johnson? How many Americans don't realize that Martin Luther King spoke for them back in 1968, and that things are even worse now?
Hail Code Pink, the brave Sophie Scholls of today! May they prevail and not suffer her fate, even though they do risk it.
Obama's line about food is absurd ... it reminds me of a John Lennon line, "how do you sleep?"
Yeah, Obama plans for a nominal withdrawal from and perpetual presence in Iraq
will surely put food on workers tables...
well, it's guaranteed to kill workers, at least
i wont vote for nader, though i liike that he's ini, simply for the expanded conversation. while i like obama's subued tactics to encourage electability, he does need a fire under his feet on several (progressive) issues.
Nichols is mostly on the mark, but not in his characterization of Obama's response so far. In comments that Nichols elided here, Obama said,
"My sense is that Mr. Nader is somebody who if you don't listen and adopt all of his policies thinks you're not substantive."
If not grumbling, we can call it veiled grumbling, and not very wise. Obama, to get progressive votes, will have to much more openly acknowledge the wisdom of Nader's positions on many issues, and thus making veiled attacks on Nader, at this early stage, for being principled and dogged should come back to bite him.
"Nader's greatest value in any race is — like Socialist Norman Thomas in his races against Democratic Franklin Roosevelt — as a source of pressure on the Democratic nominee to address fundamental questions and perhaps to take more progressive stands on a few issues. As in 2000 and 2004, Nader's appeal will be determined in large part by the extent to which the Democratic candidate is willing to be bold."
Well said. Having an alternative gives us all leverage. I would like to think that Obama is being cagey to play the powers that be and the media and theat he will turn ot to be relatvely progressive. Chances are, however, it is us that are being played.
If we vote for Nader, who has spent his life battling the Republican agenda, we are supporting the republicans.
If we vote for the Democrats, who have spent the last 8 years enabling the Republican agenda, we are voting against the Republibcans.
???????????????????
Solid article by Nichols. I, for one, am currently supporting Obama. Mainly to remove the stench of the Clintons from public life and wreck the DLC.
In November? Well, Bombs Away McCain is genuinely scary, but, will Obama be an acceptable alternative then?
We'll see. Nader's presence may make it so. Gore and Kerry said essentially, "its my football and you can't play." If Obama says "you can play, but it really doesn't matter" and acts accordingly Ralph will be irrelevant. Time will tell.
Obama will not appreciate the spotlight falling on his pro-corporate side. It's time someone shone a light.
There's only one dance at the Democratic Party.
Take a step to the right, take another step to the right.
Hold hands with the person on your right - let them lead.
Take another step to the right.
Nader is trying to bring new music to the Party. Progressive sounds.
Whether Nader runs or not, Obama will get the votes.
McCain will be the next President.
Why should 2008 be any different that the last 2 selections?
Obama has nothing to fear from Ralph Nader. He is a far superior candidate than Al Gore or John Kerry and especially Hillary Clinton.
Nader's entry into the electoral fray will give the 2008 presidential election its' jester.
Nader wont give the Presidency to John McBush...DIEBOLD will, as ususal
I'd like to see Nader and Gravel team up on the Independent ticket; give the progressive message a real boost. Americans need more exposure to these ideas.
I was at the Green Party convention in 2000 when Ralph was nominated. Following his acceptance speech he met with a group of Colorado Democrats, including me and a lifelong Nader friend who arranged the meeting.
Nader personally assured us that if the race was close in October he would withdraw his candidatcy and encourage his supporters to vote for Al Gore. He not only broke his word but he accepted thousands of dollars from Repugs to continue his campaign to get 5% of the vote. This act proves that Nader lacks the personal integrity to champion the progressive cause.
I think Obama is going to capture progressive voters in 2008 that voted Nader in 2000 and 2004. I think Nader 2008 is a non-story.
It is crazy to suggest that the Democratic Party somehow owns certain votes and how dare Nader poach them away. A supreme arrogance, and weakness of the Democratic Party.
If the Democratic Party were an honest progressive Party, it would lose no votes to Ralph Nader, and would have nothing to fear or complain about.
A lot of positive remarks about Nader's joining the race. I believe we need Nader's voice, but it seems to me that a warm welcoming of Nader to the race by progressives can only come about through a "hope" that he only siphons off a tiny sliver of the votes for a Democratic nominee. Although I think Nader would be a great president, the thought of Republicans running this country for another four years sickens me. More death and killing. We need to pull up out of this nosedive and Obama is our best chance.
I'm glad Nader is in the race.
He gives voice to issues that need to be discussed.
We need to make sure his voice is included in the debates.
It is fine for Nader to run, but the problem is that our voting system is not good for 3 parties. One of the voting reforms we need is for some kind of alternative voting system, like instant runoff voting or preferential voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting
Either Clinton, Obama, or McCain will be the next president. Nothing else will change. Sad, very sad.
John Nichols wrote: "While Nader has yet to determine whether he will run as the Green Party candidate, a Green-backed independent or a genuinely unaffiliated independent, he is clear about his chances."
It is not up to Ralph Nader to "determine" whether he will be the Green Party nominee for President. It is up to the Green Party voters to determine. Nader is one of several people seeking the Green Party nomination, including former Democratic member of Congress Cynthia McKinney, and several long-time, hard-working Green Party organizers.
Ralph Nader is not, and has never been, a member of the Green Party. Since he ran for president as the Green Party nominee in 2000, Ralph Nader has done EXACTLY NOTHING to help build and organize the Green Party as a strong, effective political constituency. In 2004, Nader did not even seek the Green Party's nomination, although he tried to pressure the Greens to not nominate anyone for president but to "endorse" his independent candidacy. The Greens wisely rejected Nader and instead nominated long-time Green Party activist David Cobb. Nader covets the Green Party's permanent ballot access in a number of states -- earned by the hard work of grassroots Green Party organizers over many years, NO thanks to Ralph Nader -- and that's why he wants the Green Party's nomination or endorsement.
I am a registered Green Party voter in Maryland. I do NOT plan to vote for Ralph Nader in the Maryland Green Party's presidential primary in March. I hope that my fellow Greens will be wise enough to nominate a true Green, someone dedicated to grassroots political organizing and building the Green Party on a local as well as national level. I plan to vote for the Green Party presidential nominee in November -- unless it is Ralph Nader, in which case I will vote for the Democratic nominee.
And if the Green Party chooses to be nothing more than Ralph Nader's toy to play with every four years, then I will have to reconsider whether the Greens are a serious political effort and whether I should change my voter registration to Democrat.
A lot less Nader bashing this discussion. Maybe everyone went to lunch.
I personally admire anyone who can speak the truth and get progressive ideas into the discussion. Obama, I'm looking in your direction!
Heres something that I noticed. The mantra here seems to be "finally a candidate that will speak the truth and say what needs to be heard". Ummm, didnt Dennis Kucinich already do that? And in my mind Dennis Kucinich can do it far better than Ralph Nader. So ad another blow hard to the debates, so what.
It's pretty rich for a Cobb supporter to complain that Nader has supposedly done nothing to build the Green Party. That being said, I could take Nader a bit more seriously, as well as the Green Party as a whole, if the candidacy had been announced 6 months ago, or even more. It was incredibly stupid to not have been done so.
The Green Party convention is not even being held until Summer! For that, I think we can hold the Cobb people as being responsible.
Simply put, these Cobb supporters are Democrats in sheep's clothing and they have destroyed the Green Party's ability to pose as being much independent of the corporatocracy in our country. They show no leadership abilities at all.
Nader himself is no great shakes. Where was he during all the off campaign time? Certainly not building any real anti-corporate political party.
Excellent piece from Nichols. You can count on the Nation to put out some clear thinking without descending to name calling and mud slinging.
I personally welcome Nader's verbal priority setting without the tip toeing around constituencies and corporate sponsors. If nothing else, it will put the head liners on orange alert. And most everybody else for that matter.
It already has.
Democrats are not the progressives that they like to cast themselves as. Bunch of phonies.
From the editor of the Nation: http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?pid=289938
I like the idea of Another Choice in elections, but mabye there IS a better path for Citezen Number One.
And KvH does speak well to hatemongers thoughts of Spoilers and Egotists.
A recommended read.
Good solid piece. The few (real) progressives will have little impact on the real race and will give US someone we can vote for and feel good about. Its the best position for everyone.
As for SecularAnimist:
Good luck with all of THAT.
Democrats arent progressive. They dont want voters to have a choice. Its all about staying in power and $$$.
Again, if you're against nuclear power, pro single-payer health care, think we need to cut the military budget in half (or more), clamp down on corporate crime and a culture of kickbacks, modernize/improve our voting system, etc. is Obama the messenger?
I (and apparently the Bilderbergs?) see Obama's main job in terms of restoring hope around a failing politics of Empire (rather than fundamentally changing anything).
But Reagan coated it with teflon so long ago that nothing really stick any more -- the good, bad or the ugly. We'll need more than smiles, platitudes and vague hopes.
I registered Pacific Green here in Eugene OR years ago, and joined the steering committee but became disillusioned because the central committee in Portland was siphoning off the money we raised for party building, leaving us impoverished. They even used our contributions lists to phone market for money. When I learned how the rules committee was essentially making us powerless, I quit working in the party. I'm still registered Green (about to become a temporary Democrat), but being inside the party structure felt like I was being smothered by egos, as if I was in a room being squashed by hot air balloons. I decided that any political party attracts people who are power hungry. I won't say there weren't people of good will in the Greens, there were, but they were being steamrollered by the egoists. I haven't been inside the structure for years now, so maybe things have changed. I don't know. But I'm not overly interested in finding out. Probably because I suspect people don't change all that much. It would be nice to learn that altruists have taken over the party and that the rules have been rewritten to support party building instead of fiefdoms. I'm not suggesting that my experience is characteristic of Greens all over the country, I can't answer to that. Haven't been there. I did talk with David Cobb in Texas, I thought he was fantastic. But I was bitterly disappointed with the Greens in 2004 that they were going to pull back in competitive states to help Kerry. If I wanted to help Kerry I would have voted for him. I wanted an alternative.
kathyodat
great article. pretty much spot on.
I'd LOVE to see a debate between Nader and Obama, Nader would destroy him in about 2 minutes. Obama knows that and that's why he won't hear of it.
For openers, I'd like to see Obama explain his short but corrupt voting record, including his votes that kept funding this immoral, illegal and murderous Iraq war.
We've only seen the 'primary' Obama so far. Its traditional in the Dem party for the candidates to have to run to the left to get the nomination. Any time its a contested nomination, the open ground for any candidate is to the left. And especially with the corporate-friendly Hillary taking up the center-right part of the political spectrum. The only room to run against Hillary was to her left, as there was no way to go to the right of her and stay anywhere near the Dem base.
This changes in the general election. So far, every Dem I can think of in my lifetime has swung hard to the right as soon as they get the nomination. The Dems always are as progressive as they have to be to get the nomination. Then they declare war on the progressives in the general election to try to prove that they are 'independent' of 'special interests' and the like.
So we don't know what an Obama campaign in the general election will look like.
And there's nothing in his primary campaign that tells me there's any committment to any values at all. His entire campaign up till now has been talling people what there is to here.
So, before deciding that Obama is the ideal progressive candidate in the general election, you'd better wait to hear what he's really saying then. He might be hitting the notes he's already hit about expanding the military, more military spending, expanding the war to Pakistan, supporting Israel against Iraq, health care plans that don't cover every one, and dismantling social security.
He's tried all of those in the primary, but generally dropped them as they weren't working with the Dem base. Don't be surprised if they all come back for the general election.
Meanwhile, Nader and Cynthia McKinney are both very clear on what they believe and where they stand. You don't have to worry about the corporate money pulling them to the right. My guess is by the time Obama does turn hard right for the general election, a lot of progressives who are already sick of the Dem party will be looking at a Nader or McKinney campaign a lot more favorably.
the Nation became a wing of the Dem party years ago.
I used to be a subscriber back in the 80's and early 90's. They were always begging for money. You always got the feeling they were almost but not quite broke.
Then, in 2000 when Nader ran against Gore, several things seemed to happen.
-- the Nation seemed to stop begging for money.
-- the Nation became a reliable voice the Dems could count on to always tell progressives to vote Dem.
-- people like Katherine van Hueval became media personalities and started showing up on CNN and the like.
Always seemed pretty obvious to me that that the Nation made a deal with the Dems around about them.
--------------
Nowadays, I'd pay no attention at all to what the Nation recommends between now and the election. They are going to tell everyone to vote Dem. That's $$ talking.
My morning paper says Obama said something more about Nader, that "Ralph Nader tried to tell us in 2000 that there was no important difference between Al Gore and George Bush, but now many Americans realize that Ralph did not know what he was talking about."
This is whole point. There WAS a difference between agendas. There is a difference this time as well. And Ralph tells a colossal fib when he says or implies there is not. This is the single reason for distrusting Ralph. He can not speak well of anybody or anything except his own ideas.
tatti -tatti, Nader would destroy anyone - except Dennis - in a debate in two minutes. And to the Nader critics, he said he would run as a Green in 2000, but that would not build a party, that was up to the people on the bottom. Well, they didn't really take advantage of it.
Obama is downplaying his progressivism, which I've seen in the past, and taking corporate money. Get real. If he didn't, we'd be looking at neocon Hillary against McCain. And McCain would probably win. All those people flocking to Obama wouldn't be flocking to her. And even if she did manage to win, we'd just have another saber rattling neocon in office, who after all, didn't have such a problem with NAFTA.
kathyodat
What a scam.
The media declares Nader "unelectable" so nobody votes for him so he's unelectable.
Now the media declares Obama has a "movement" behind him so everybody who wants to "pick a winner" jumps on the bandwagon, and, presto! -- Obama's got a "movement" behind him.
Jesus, where are all these suckers on poker night?
Nader's a man of proven integrity. Look at all he's done from auto safety on up. He's got a 40-year record of fighting -- and often slaying -- dragons on behalf of regular folks, and doesn't appear to have taken a damn thing for himself.
Obama's record proves what? He's all vague promises, and you know what a politician's promise is worth after the election -- as wonderfully demonstrated by the democrats after the last interim election.
If we'd make our choice just once about being on the side that's right, instead of on the side that wins, we might actually be able to clean up Tombstone a little.
Just my opinion.
Liberty & Justice,
SJ
www.spartacusjones.com
If you are already in the Green Party, but don't want to support Nader, I'd strongly recommend checking out Cynthia McKinney.
www.runcynthiarun.org
www.allthingscynthiamckinney.org
One thing, don't believe a word the corporate media says about her. Go listen to her speak in person. Go find an unedited audio or video of her speaking. I used to live in Atlanta and used to work on her campaigns. The difference between the lies the corporate media will tell you and what you'd hear if you go hear her speak in person is striking.
"It is fine for Nader to run, but the problem is that our voting system is not good for 3 parties. One of the voting reforms we need is for some kind of alternative voting system, like instant runoff voting or preferential voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_voting"
I agree, but how are you going to get it?
The Dems certainly won't give it to you. They like the current system and their monopoly position just fine. And the states I grew up in with long-term Dem control of elections are some of the worst about blocking any other parties from even getting on the ballot (check out GA and NC petitioning rules and the 80,000 or so sigs you need).
So, how are we going to get it?
The one way I see is to start torpedoing Dem campaigns. Anywhere the race is close, run a strong Green party effort. Ie, do exactly the opposite of the 'safe-states' strategy. Look for 'vulnerable states' and seats and attack there hard and swift.
Then, see if the Dems want to make a deal. When they start to agree to stuff like ....
1) Instant Runoff voting for executive positions.
2) Proportional voting for legislatures
3) Clean Election funding \ public financing.
then you make a deal with them. The deal is we'd back of targeting the Dem candidates IF AND ONLY IF they support strongly these sorts of election reforms.
Show political muscle first. Give the Dems a few bloody noses with independent and Green challenges. Then when they start to respect that political muscle, negotiate a deal with them. (Of course, then repeat loop after the Dems prove dishonest and untrustworthy and break the deal, but that's in the future).
The advice to the left is always the opposite. The advice is always to surrender first. Abandon the campaigns, don't run in tight elections. Surrender all power first. Then the Dems want us to negotiate with them. Of course, they give us nothing and call us 'idiot liberals' because we are not negotiating from any position of strength. That's why they always want us to surrender first, then negotiate. Or basically, surrender first, then surrender later too.
Show political muscle. Start causing Dems to lose. If you want to be taken seriously, show political muscle first.
COMarc, I agree with you about Cynthia McKinney. She's been assassinated by the corporate media.
Here's a great story from the LA Times about Republicans for Obama. For once, we have something in common. They're going for him for the same reason I was willing to consider voting for Ron Paul. That is, something other than policies. In the case of Paul, integrity. In the case of Obama, they feel he will listen to both sides and try to bring people together. People are sick of political warfare. Although Hillary obviously isn't.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/022508M.shtml
kathyodat
Welcoming the rationality of Nader in this 2008 contest (?). Truly a gadfly on the national conscience in addition to keeping the game fair and honest. The rash of Corporatistas that put in their entry fee for the Potomac quadrennial Derby is a testament to where industrialists put their money. For all the rant and bluster from these speakers we barely hear the words - NATION OF LAWS, not men/women. Here is a lawyer speaking truth to power and unabashedly confronts the eternal question -- cui bono -- who benefits from these promises of policy and change. Really do any of the candidates speak of how wealth will be redistributed? The matters of energy price, access to health care, growing an adequate and healthy food output.
For 12 % of this U.S. Senate virtually awol months and months, only dedicated to vaulting themselves and backers into executive fighting chairs, this can be seen as the usual free-for-nobody free-for-all. Already maybe a 1/2 Billion spent on tv ads! And March to Madness is still a week away.
It is gainsaid that Ralph will not win and has not the money to compete ---- But are we at least worthy of hearing his clarity of thought on the great issues today and compare and contrast those thoughts with the party designees for the Presidency. But with the electorate more focused on the hype of the Movie Academy Awards than on the issues at stake for its future by politicos, maybe cynicism is easier to stomach?
Nader has turned into a silly-ass nuisance now. What kind of alternative choice is he giving when he knows damn well that he doesn't have a chance in hell to make it to the White House?
A vote for Nader is a vote for McCain. Sometimes I wonder if he's a Republican mole in Nader clothing. Joe Leiberman the Democrat (sic) was another example.
I am a strong Ralph Nader supporter and I am shocked that there are still Democrats out there who don't "get" his reasons or his place in this race. Obama, whom I like, has said he will talk to Iran, talk to Cuba and yet he has not spoken to Nader. Ralph tried to call him but no response. The truth, a word used frequently on these "Progressive" type blogs, is something you get from Ralph, but few are willing to accept from him. Maybe this time, given the Dems last couple of debacles, they will get smart and give him whatever it takes to get our support.
COMarc brings up a valuable history lesson- Democrats tun to the left in primaries, then back again in the general elections. (and viseversa for the GOP)
And thank you too COMarc for your thoughts on The Nation magazine. I do share your suspicions, and might even put the Nation in the same vein as MoveOn. I read many different websites every week, covering different ideologies. While I find the the writing to be comparativley acceptable, I do feel a strong bias from them. I have yet to make up my mind or even get many facts on the matter.
The question KvH posed though does I think deserve some consideration, IF there was some role that Nader could fill this election without being a candidate. As of now, I don't think so, and I think running might be his only chance for a voice (and Nader is one of OUR- progressives- chance for a voice) but I am open to other opinions.
i erupted on "sam seder on sunday" for him trashing nader's entry. his response: i agree nader brings a progressive perspective but he could cause mccain to get elected and that means a vote for nader would result in more people dying.
WTF!?
gee, i thought that was the republican line.
i ranted around the house afterwards, upsetting the cats, as subsequent callers complained about "progressive democrats" splitting the party. what part of this don't they understand? i'm NOT a democrat! i'm a progressive! i don't CARE about the (D) (aka R-lite) party. with dennis out of the race, i want the pelosis and reids and feinsteins to take notice that they CANNOT continue to ignore me, get cozy with their corporate and (R) masters, and still be able to count on my vote simply because they've conspired & colluded to banish any 3d, 4th, 5th etc. parties to the trash heap.