Obama Trounces Clinton in Wisconsin and Hawaii to Make It Ten in a Row
Barack Obama last night swept aside Hillary Clinton in the Wisconsin primary and Hawaii caucuses, extending his winning run in the Democratic presidential race to ten consecutive victories.
The campaign now heads towards a crunch date on March 4 when Mrs Clinton needs to win both Texas and Ohio to keep her White House hopes alive.
Mr Obama’s victory in Wisconsin - by a wider than expected margin of 56 per cent to 41 per cent - increases the likelihood that a defeat for Mrs Clinton in either of these key states next month will prove to be decisive in determining the nomination.
She now trails Mr Obama by more than 150 pledged delegates and will need to win overwhelmingly in Ohio and Texas, as well as Pennsylvania on April 22, to close the gap.
As in the Potomac primary a week earlier, Mr Obama made significant inroads last night into her base support among women, union and white lower-paid voters while maintaining huge leads over among independents and younger people.
Mr Obama’s aides yesterday suggested that Wisconsin - which contains few of the black voters who have boosted him elsewhere and was not a caucus contest of the type he has usually won - should have been natural Clinton territory. One described it as a “no excuses primary” for her.
The results of today’s caucuses in Hawaii - a state where Mr Obama spent much of his youth - did not offer Mrs Clinton any comfort either; she took only 24 per cent of the vote compared to 76 per cent for the Illinois senator.
Mr Obama appeared in front of another massed rally at Houston when he was declared the Wisconsin winner last night. “Houston, I think we achieved lift-off here,” he said to wild cheers from a crowd of around 20,000 people.
His speech began in the middle of Mrs Clinton’s own address in Youngstown, Ohio, prompting TV stations to abandon coverage of her in favour of Mr Obama. This was immediately seen as a sign that his campaign is now ready to “big foot” his formerly frontrunning rival.
Mrs Clinton notably failed to congratulate Mr Obama in her speech and - although aides later said they spoke briefly by telephone - the animosity between the two campaigns appears to have hardened in recent days during which they have both run negative TV advertising attacks.
She sought to shift voters’ attention away from the excitement and euphoria surrounding Mr Obama, saying: “This election is not about me or my opponent. It’s about you. Your lives, your dreams, your future.”
Instead, Mrs Clinton said voters needed to focus on the real choice they faced - beyond having the first woman or the first African American Democratic nominee.
“Both Senator Obama and I would make history. But only one of us is ready on day one to be commander-in-chief, ready to manage our economy, and ready to defeat the Republicans. Only one of us has spent 35 years being a doer, a fighter and a champion for those who need a voice.
“That is what I would bring to the White House. That is the choice in this election. It’s about picking a president who relies not just on words - but on work, hard work, to get America back to work. Someone who’s not just in the speeches business - but will get America back in the solutions business.”
Mr Obama responded in his own speech, saying change “will take more than big rallies, it’s going to require more than rousing speeches, it will also require more than policy papers and positions and websites, it is going to require something more”.
He added: “The problem that we face in America today is not a lack of good ideas. It’s that Washington has become a place where good ideas go to die.”
His speech suggested he was already looking ahead to a general election battle against the presumptive Republican nominee, John McCain, saying that America did not need the “same old folks” running Washington.
But Mr McCain, who cantered past the fading challenge of Mike Huckabee to win the Republican primary in Wisconsin last night, made thinly veiled swipes in Mr Obama’s direction and “the confused leadership of an inexperienced candidate”.
In a speech in Columbus, Ohio, he said: “I will fight every moment of every day in this campaign to make sure that Americans are not deceived by an eloquent but empty call for change.”
© 2008 The Times Online
Hillary, just give up. It was over after Iowa….
First H.W., then Bill, then W., then Hillary, then Jeb, then by that time Chelsea will have reached the 35-year-old constitutional minimum.
All this Obama stuff puts us at risk of breaking an American tradition. Oh, woe.
Or “Oh, whoa!” Or even, “Oh, ‘O’!”
Ten defeats in a row - that’s real leadership!
If Clinton has been a doer, a fighter, “a champion for 35 years (!)” how come we still have all these grave problems?
Obama is the ultimate dream candidate for the establishment. He won’t challenge the status quo, but can arouse the electorate and generate excitement. I’m glad for him. As far as establishment candidates go, he seems like a nice guy. Hillary, on the other hand, is the establishment candidate “whose turn had arrived”. There was no other qualification to her. I’m glad she is going nowhere. I find her pretty boring (and besides, what she says means absolutely nothing).
“The only constant in the universe is change”. The only thing that you can set your clock by is change because everything changes. And America is at the cross-roads of change and is in the process of change as I type and you read this writing. The People are in the streets, yelling from the windows of their dwelling, the very air vibrates with the static crackling of the barely restrained shout “We’re mad as hell and ain’t going to take it anymore!”. If we-The American People-were to judge the canidates ability to be president on the basis on how they run their campaigns we would have to give the nod to Senator Obama. While Clinton and McCain tout their vaunted experience in the Federal Government or military the daily running of their campaigns leaves a lot to be questioned and is an early indicator of how they would run this country. I would rather have someone running the country like Senator Obama runs his campaign then to have someone runnings the country like Clinton or McCain who seem to have problems keeping their campaigns running on point and smoothly.
Got to hand it to Obama- He brings out the worst in her.
And that is the problem for Hillary–the more the exposure, the less likeable character is revealed.
The Clintons must’ve really thought they had this thing all sewn up before it even started.
Vern, you nailed it! Hillary made a major mistake making such a big deal of “plagiarism”. Obama said, rightly, “I should have given him credit, but it’s no big deal.” And the voters agreed. Her continuing to harp on it made her look desperate and ineffectual. She cooked her own goose. And we are the beneficiaries.
kathyodat
BTY, I can’t wait to see him bring out the worst in McCain, who is known to have a rage issue. Maybe his staff will sedate him before the debates.
kathyodat
Vern…Absolutely right. The Clinton Machine, rolling along toward an inevitable nomination hits a bump in the road in Iowa and the wheels fall off.
One blunder/mistake/miscalculation after another. Is this leadership? She can’t pick competent advisors, can’t keep track of her campaign funds, can’t read the political mood of the country, can’t deal with adversity, can’t “find her voice” until New Hampshire (after 35 years of Experience!), can’t campaign anywhere without angering large chunks of the electorate, can’t figure out what to do with Bill, can’t keep her word (Mich and Fla), can’t tell the truth (war vote was to buy time for negotiations),can’t admit a mistake (war vote, again) and on and on and on…
Experience? Her biggest experience in Bill’s administration was screwing up National Health when there was a Democratic president, a Democratic congress and the Democrats controlled most governorships and state legislatures.
The time is certainly right for a woman to be President.
But…Not This Woman!
Clinton’s desperation tactics right now are a huge turn off. Clinton Inc. will do almost anything to make sure they don’t lose another election to Obama. Don’t be surprised if they try to dig up some dirt on Obama right before the Ohio & Texas primaries. The worse part is that somehow she feels entitled to be nominated just because of her name. If for some reason she does unexpectedly get the nomination, I won’t be voting at all this Nov. I just don’t trust her and Clinton Inc.
As Ralph Malachi once yelled: “Let the pigeons loose!”
“By Bill O’Reilly Does Michelle Obama dislike America? That is the subject of this evening’s “Talking Points Memo.”
Not as much as the neoconBushcultists, it turns out. By April, it will be “Does Michelle Obama HATE America?” During the summer, we’ll be treated to “Why Do the Obamas hate all of white America and most Latinos, too?” In the fall, it’ll be, “Does Obama hate America so much, he’s planning to rename it New Africa?”
Hell, McCrazy is already accusing the Dems of pre-genocide…
“Ready on Day One” If I hear this one more time I will scream !! I wonder how many presidents, on Inauguration Day, yawned and said, “Sorry, I’m not ready yet”?? Hillary needs to just go back to New York now, and give us all a rest from her annoying personality, her and Bill both, if I never see either of them again, I will not miss them !!
IT’S SAD TO READ ALL THESE COMMENTS…THAT
ARE JUST PARROTING…THE SO-CALLED
MOMENTUM OF OBAMA….HAS NOT BEEN INSPECTED
COME ON FOLKS…EVERYONE KNOWS WHO PAYS
ATTENTION THAT AT THE STATE CAUCUSES…AND
MOST PRIMARIES….THERE’S BEEN A SET UP EVER
SINCE REPUBS DECIDED IT WOULD BE EASIER TO
BEAT OBAMA….THEY WENT INTO THE DEM VOTING
ARENA…SAID I’M CHANGING AFFILIATION…
SHOUTED FOR OBAMA…LEFT LAUGHING AND SMIRKING
LIKE THEIR CHIMPY LEADER….AND IN A DAY OR
SO WENT TO REPUBS/BOARD OF ELECTIONS…AND
RESIGNED AS THE BUMS THEY ARE….
WAKE UP…TAKE A STRONG LOOK…SOMEONE LIKE
GREG PALAST…ET AL…SHOULD BE GOING AFTER
THIS WITH A FINETOOTHED COMB……
SO THIS IS THE “ELECTED” SPEAKING…HARDLY…
PATHETIC
PATHETIC, I think polls have consistently suggested that in a hypothetical match up against McCain, Obama does better than Hillary.
So you may want to revise your theory.
And let’s save Palast’s magnificent investigative skills for other issues.
Keating Five McCain sez: “I will fight every moment of every day in this campaign to make sure that Americans are not deceived by an eloquent but empty call for change.”
This statement begs editing to remove the propaganda …
100-year Occupation McCain meant: “I will fight every moment of every day in this campaign to make sure that Americans are deceived.”
DEAR OFF SCREEN CAPS LOCK -
The republicans poll higher against Hillary, not McCain….
One of Obama’s advisors said that the usual process in a campaign like this is for a candidate who rises to such an iconic place to quickly become a pinata.
We need to realize that everything will be done to try to destroy Obama and the movement that has grown around his candidacy. The last thing the powers that be want is a motivated and involved electorate.
I expected the assaults and the dirty political tricks to begin from the right, but I was extremely discouraged to see how the Clinton campaign went negative. I’m proud of the Wisconsin voters for not rewarding Hillary and her attempt to tear down Obama with such petty accusations.
The main goal of all negative advertising (and the political dirty tricks of Republicans) is to get people to have doubts about the candidate and the possibility for change. They will spend millions of dollars and will spread unspeakable lies so people will have doubts, give up, not vote or sit on the sidelines instead of getting involved.
We need to stand together when these attacks come so that our pinata will have a solid shell of support that can’t be defeated by smear campaigns and the lies that are already being spread.
Hillary claims to have so much more experience than Obama. What makes her think she would be a
better president when she can’t even run a better campaign? If Obama runs the government half
as well as he has run his campaign, there will be change in the way things run in washington.
Obama is presently (61) delegate votes ahead, if Michigan and Florida are not counted, and so far they are not. Nor should they be counted in my opinion. They should have a caucuus in those two states.
If Obama wins in Texas, and he may, he will be our next president. Hillary has to win in Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania, all three of them. ___ IF,__ if, if she does that, she will have the delegate lead come the convention. Whoemever leads then should recieve the super delegate votes.
If Obama is our next president, do NOT expect to see our troops out of Iraq, and do see a possible attack on Iran. ___ Check his record carefully, and what he has actually said on those issues. I am not supporting, or condemming either Hillary or Obama with writing those commments. I am just stating what is self evident to me.
Obama is not running his campaign RUDYJO.
Some very smart political hacks and people who were able to raise millions of dollars, found a man who is the best orator we have ever seen, and who is an expert con-artist and they ran his campaign and did it very well. Those same people will be runnng the president too. “Beware of what we wish for” is an excellent saying.
Obama has fooled millions, with his truly wonderful speeches. Many of the fooled are very decent progeressives, who have been conned and with much justification, hate the thought of another Clinton presidency.
Let’s take a closer look at who’s really qualified and or who’s really working for the good of all of us in the Senate. Obama or Clinton.
Records of these two candidates should be scrutinized in order to make an informed decision.
Senator CLINTON, who has served only one full term - 6yrs. - and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law - 20 - twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.
These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress http://www.thomas.loc.gov , but to save you trouble, I’ll post them here for you.
1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O’Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton’s bills are, more substantive. 16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11 18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.
There you have it, the fact’s straight from the Senate Record.
Now, I would post those of OBAMAs, but the list is too substantive, so I’ll mainly categorize.
During the first - 8 - eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These inculded **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law, **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law, **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, - became law, **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.
In all, since entering the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.
An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to some who would prefer that this comparison not be made public.
He’s not just a talker.
He’s a doer.
Pass it on….It’s impressive
~POLLSHEP~ His FIRST year in the Senate, Obama authorized 152 bills and co-sponsered another 427. A total of 579 bills. With the Senate being in session for less than 200 working days, ___ that is some fantastic reading and work. WOW!!!! __ I do wonder if your post is accurate, just because you say so? Or is there such a thing as a rubber stamp being used to make one look really good? ______ Hmmmmmm?
Just wonder about it Pollshep, not being critical of your very humerous post.
“Obama has fooled millions, with his truly wonderful speeches. Many of the fooled are very decent progeressives, who have been conned and with much justification, hate the thought of another Clinton presidency.”
If this was the early 60’s, these Obama haters on here would probably have said that JFK was also a hack and con artist. If you dislike Obama so much and call him a fake, then go out and support John McCain with full gusto. Otherwise quit your whining!
Hillary Walmart Clinton–”a champion for those who need a voice?”–I don’t think so.
The link above doesn’t seem to be working…
I typed into the browser the following and it takes you to the Library of Congress…
thomas.loc.gov
I did not compile the above information, and was really passing it on for an FYI,however, I have found tons of information that I did not know was available… look it up, type in their names, you might be surprised…
Kem Partrick; Who would you rather have, the political hacks that Obama has working for him
or the criminals that run the bush administration?
Did any of you look up the Wisconsin vote totals? Although Hillary lost to Barak, she got more votes than McCain! Barak got Twice as many votes as McCain, Huckabee and Ron Paul combined. The GOP has to get humping in the Dairy State!
Who would you rather have, the political hacks that Obama has working for him or the criminals that run the bush administration?
There is a difference? Maybe we will all wake up next year and discover that politics is just kabuki to distract us from the real rulers hiding in the wings.
“Only one of us has spent 35 years being a doer, a fighter and a champion for those who need a voice.” —
Yeah Hillary, who needed the voice? Oh it was WAL-MART, AIPAC and the MIC… She sure served them well.
Hey Kem, are you a closet Hillary fan? Sounds that way. Obama was a community organizer in his youth, he knows how to organize. We could use a little of that. In his recent speeches, he says he will have us out of Iraq in 2009. He says the people need to push their leaders for what they want. He said that ExxonMobil made unacceptable billions in profits and we need to take back our money and use it for the public good.
Hillary voted against banning cluster bombs to please AIPAC. Can you seriously vote for someone who is willing to blow children’s faces off for the sake of campaign funds and votes? Obama voted for the ban. He told automakers what they didn’t want to hear, that we need higher fuel efficiency standards. He said the room was silent, but it needed to be said. Hillary is running an inept campaign and flailing as she drowns. Is that who you want for president? I want someone who is competent and who chooses competent advisers, not someone who keeps rearranging their team and starts nitpicking when the going gets tough.
Kem, why don’t you read Obama’s Houston victory speech? He points out that the pressure for change must come from the bottom, from us. And he urges people to keep up the pressure. You think he’s a fake? I think he’s real, a lot more real than Hillary and so do more and more Americans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/us/politics/19text-obama.html
kathyodat
Hate to bring this up, but remember all the “convenient” deaths that just seemed to happen to people who could have brought down Bill and Hillary? The last public one was Vince Foster. Have you noticed the “smile” that appears on Hillary’s face when she maintains that she will be the next president. It is scary. Is she hiding some dark secret plan?
The Clintons really need to leave daughter Chelsea alone. She got a wonderful trip to Hawaii and everyone is proud.But even Hawaiins don’t like the idea of an adult supporter who cannot be approached with even the simplest question about the campaign. Hillary lost Hawaii by over 70%. Hawaiians saw Chelsea and just said no. Embarassing. Now if some superdelegates can be as brave, or are they in on the same dark secret?
riverman, you’re not being fair to Kem. He’s not oten wrong, although there does seem to be some sort of a blind spot around Hillary and Barack that I haven’t figured out. Kem, are you opposed to a black man as president?
Your friend, Kathyodat
This is going to be an election where the young voters are going to really make the big difference. They are the ones who are going to vote Obama into office.
I was a participant in the Nebraska caucuses, and was amazed at the large number and enthusiasm of the Obama supporters. Most of them were under 30 and their enthusiasm was infectuous on us oldsters. Observing the Obama supporters, I suddenly had the feeling it must have been much like this when JFK and RFK were campaigning.
The reason for the younger generation’s support of Obama? In a word…they’re PISSED OFF! They are concerned about jobs and living standards. Hillary doesn’t impress them because she is associated with NAFTA and Bill’s H1B visa support. They also want to see the environment and global warming addressed. They are upset about the Iraq war and the image of the US abroad.
There is a new generation coming to fore, the “baby boom” of the 80’s and they are not going to be satisfied with business as usual. And the Republicans? All they have to offer this younger generation is just the re-assurance: “well…we kept that gay couple down the street from getting hitched”.
tolerancenow, how many convenient deaths were there? I only heard about Vince Foster. I’m not adverse to conspiracy theories, but I do like some evidence to substantiate such claims.
kathyodat
Hillary should take up bowling - ten strikes in a row - wow, only two more for a perfect game.
Ill bet AIPAC is lobbying each and every one of those superdelegates right now. What will it take?
* “Would you like some extra campaign funds? You wont get more if you go against us.”
* “I notice you that you own a cleaning company. We can get your company a contract for all the cleaning for an entire corporation”
* “Rupert’s empire can give you good publicity or bad publicity. Which would you like?”
Hillary is in panic mode. Watch for a meltdown in the debate.
By the way, please donate to Common Dreams, even if only a little. They deserve our support. It’s the best place for news on the web, and the many really intelligent, passionate bloggers is a bonus.
But only one of us is ready on day one to be commander-in-chief
That’s the problem, too eager to be another war hawk. What was she thinking when she went parading around in Iraq touting the war with 100 Yrs McCain. At that time Hillary endorsed McCain for president and he returned the favor.
http://www.nowpublic.com/people/john-mccain-endorses-hillary-clinton-president-maxine
KEM PATRICK February 20th, 2008 3:40 pm
I think you’re right.
pollshep February 20th, 2008 3:54 pm
Any bills or speeches on lowering defense spending?
Hillary must have spent some time in the WalMart advertising department, She’s now running a
Buy one Clinton, get one free special.
The thing about Obama not reducing defense spending scares me a little. Hopefully it’s political posturing so that McCain will not tear him apart. (Mc’s only perceived strength is national security, which needless to say, he has all wrong) I think Obama is sincere that he wants to end the wars and start a sane foreign policy. I.E., stop attacking people, talk to everyone, help where needed, spend more money at home. He does talk about things that way. That will allow us to reduce defense spending, a lot.
Hilbill/Superdelegates are the first firewall.
If BO survives that, Jonny is the second. Repubs are not showing their hand regarding BO: that is reserved only if he survives Hilbill.
In any case, BO has been determined to within tolerance limits, otherwise the MIC controlled media would have given him the same treatment as Gravel/Kucinich/Paul, and eliminated him early on from the game.
News Flash!
Clinton, Obama bank major donations from Abramoff’s former law firm
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Clinton_Obama_both_bank_major_donations_0219.html
Be careful what you vote for, you just might get it!
An active, energized electorate that’s all for ABC–Anyone But Clinton. Something being overlooked is the possibility that an Obama landslide will allow many progressive congressional candidates to the left of Obama to get elected. IMO, having a Congress motivated to undo Bushism–to pull Obama to the left on many issues–is the real opportunity here. For example, a real big step would be for Sheehan to defeat Pelosi, but for that to happen, a real surge of “Obamamania” needs to happen to discourage the republican crossover voters responsible for her gaining and keeping office.
Disclaimer–I’ve read and posted links to Paul Street’s essays about Obama, so I do realize his great imperfection. But somehow I don’t see in him the evil I know exists within Clinton and McCain.
All you Obama haters on the right, “take heart.” Just think about how “marvelous” it will be when W’s momma gets that pretty white dress, high heels, and wig out to “da Terminator” in the California governor’s mansion, with Pat Robertson ready to rush in as a “lovely flower girl” at the fake gay wedding in the White House between W and “da Terminator” with those muscular buttocks tying the not with W, and Diebold right ready to steal like crazy just like in 2004. Sure it didn’t work in the midterm election, but it’s the old rule, “You can’t steal ‘em all.” “Some day you’ll fall flat on the floor/ and know that your life is a bore. . .” Oh, and this is even if you never did a tour with Ten Years on their big rock show.
I’m with you, karlof1. Obama was not my first choice, but I won’t vote for Hillary or McCain. If the Dems nominate someone I can’t distinguish from a Republican, I will vote Green.
As for Obama’s record in the Senate, he has sponsored or cosponsored 53 bills and resolutions in the current session, including SJR23 to “clarify” that the AUMF nor any other bill includes authorization to attack Iran; S. 115, to roll back some of the tax giveaways to the oil and gas industries; S. 117 to increase benefits to veterans and require reports on the effectiveness of the so-called War On Terrorism; and numerous other bills to support education, veterans’ benefits, election fairness, and improve health care. You can look them up at the Library of Congress. Someone misstated the URL above. It is: http://thomas.loc.gov/
The burning question today is have you got your invite to the fake gay marriage in the White House from Poppy himself. I “had better be agetting mine pretty damn soon” or Poppy had better “not expect me” to support a “unified US fascist party” in its quest for the presidency” Come to think about it, he might not anyway. Because I’m democracy’s biggest fan. Hey, that’s just the way it is.
Regardless, do look for a quick move Poppy and W’s momma to unify the GOP, the USA’ s official fascist party by joining together W’s storm trooper wing with “da terminator’s” muscular buttocks wing, thus giving solid support to John McCain “Straight Lies Express” campaign. Now, a lot of the far right and further right are wishing and “praying” for Hilary Rodham Klanton and Mike Huckabee to drop out of the GOP race and get behind McCain. Maybe that won’t surprise some folks out there.
Only one of these candidates knows how to really throw away this presidential contest, and will do it with ease, and that is Hilary Rodham Klanton the GOP stealth candidate officially running as a Democrat. She doesn’t triangulate, she polyangulates so much so that she doesn’t know from one campaign stop to the next where she is supposed to stand, but then she doesn’t stand for much anyway, thus it doesn’t really matter!
bildad,
As to the Raw Story article, it’s interesting, but not much beef there. There’s a lot of rich people donating to all sorts of campaigns, some of it very dirty, some slightly tainted because of some arcane connection to someone who once was associated with someone who was accused of something.
There is way too much money needed to run for office, dirty or not.
A lot of people need to work in their states on getting public election financing in their states– as they did in Arizona and Maine. Eventually it can spread to the federal level.
I post what I believe may happen IF Clinton wins Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas. Right now, I don’t believe she will pull that off, but she has to if she wants to be our next president. That’a all I’m sayng about Hillary, whom I don’t respect or support. I will vote for her if she is the Demo candidate. I wlll vote for Obama if he is. I do believe Obama is con artist but so is McCain. At least McCain is not telling us, he will pull the troops out of Iraq. I blieve Hillary is the only one who will, and won’t start a war with Iran.
I get blasted and called a Hillary lover and a Obama hater for giving a valid opinions here. I am called that by one who has said she is my friend and others whom I find to be rather ammusing and joked with him with a joking bet. He has since become “un-funny”. What a shame? _______ Not my shame.
No ~Riverman~ I was not joking about anthing, except saying if Hillary lost those three ststes I would kiss your ass.
I won’t joke with you anymore.
Bush is going to “sprint to the finish” and Clinton is going to “hit the ground running.”
I’m not sure if both should not maybe be banished to an asteroid for use of such horrid cliche.
Of course there are many other reasons why Bush should be banished, but did Hillary Clinton use such fearsome cliches when she delivered her famous baccalaureate address at Wellesley College?
I doubt it. Time and experience have made her bad. Power corrupts.
And, good speeches matter. Whose voice do you want to hear every day, year after year? Hasn’t Bush’s bone-dead delivery made you wish for something better?
Hollywood mogul Peter F. Paul will begin seeking sworn testimony from all three Clintons – Bill, Hillary and Chelsea – along with top Democratic Party leaders and A-list celebrities, including Barbra Streisand, John Travolta, Brad Pitt and Cher.
SO WHERE’S THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA COVERAGE ON THIS ONE??!?!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56868
No ~Riverman~, I said if she won those three states she would win the nomination and if she didn’t I’d kiss your ass. Rave on, call me whatever names turns you on. We are not friends, so it does not bother me. When my friends turn on me, that bothers me, but I’ll live through it. If we get through this life with one good friend we are lucky.
I’ve wrote here a month ago, that people such as you and Dougwagner would be takng over this site and eventually destroy it, and I’m correct about that. You re doing good there Riverman, rave on. ~Bye~
What nobody is talking about is the massive, real people’s upsurge that is taking place now, based on people’s anger and disgust with the Bush years. After 8 yrs of Bush, tax cuts for the super rich, endless wars over lies, corruption, union busting, attacks on all of our civil and privacy rights, jobs being shipped overseas, closing schools and hospitals, massive, unbelievable, downright OBSCENE money grabs of millions upon millions of dollars, while worker’s pensions are stolen, destruction of our planet so a handful of wealthy thieves can make more money, millions without health care and millions more with almost worthless coverage, massive raises in higher school tuition and, generally, seeing the adminstration do everything they can to take everything possible from working people and give it to the richest of the rich, the American people ARE REALLY PISSED!!
Obama has taped into that anger in a very positive way. Far from “just calling for change,” he is outlining a very clear, concise strongly populist, pro-working class, “green” message that is solidly reasonating with an American populace who are hungry for real change! In calling for health care for all, an end to the war, for workers rights to organize, protecting pensions, investing in an American service program which graduates getting Fed money repay it by proforming public services, and ending the enrichment of CEO’s, Obama is voicing the heartfelt needs of the American people. As well, Obama is NOT saying “elect me and I’ll change things.” He is speaking of the need to build a strong people’s movement to fight for change, and he’ll help that movement—that change “comes from BELOW!”
Most signicantly, masses of young people are getting involved. Young folks aren’t willing to listen to non-answers to problems that demand fixing. As well, this movement is a multi-racial movement for real change.
The most important factor in any social upsurge, revolutionary development, is THE PEOPLE! An aroused, angry people with some real demands are not a geni easily pushed back into a bottle. Look at great revolutionary times of change. It isn’t about what the leaders say at the beginning. The most important thing is that the people themselves are in motion, fighting for the changes they need.
But beyond that, Obama IS clearly speaking to what the people need.
The Democratic primaries, as a whole, even reflect this angry upsurge. Voters pouring to the Democratic primaries are younger, more optimistic, more angry and motivated. They are outnumbering the older, whiter, richer Republican voters 2-3 to 1.
If this huge, spontaneous movement, joining with the Labor Movement, women, minorities, the peace majority, can elect a president, along with majorities in both houses, the conditions will be ripe for a period of massive posititve social/economic changes.
Progressives need to help build this movement and be in position to help the people fight for change. At this time, the labor movement is building wide coalitions and mobilizing their members, as well as friends and coalition partners, to fight for the issues important to working folks (health care, better trade policies, peace, right to organize, decent affordable education for all, money for public needs and good paying industrial ‘green’ jobs). This movement is not just going away after the elections. If we are able to elect a new government, pledged to impliment needed changes, it will most certainly make the fight for those needs much, much easier!
There are at least 50 long time, very decent bloggers, who posted here at CD, they were informative, fun and teachng good things at the same time. They have stopped posting in the past three to four weeks. It’s a shame, you are gonna miss them. Have fun with Dougwagner and Riverman.
You got BeForKIds on your side now Riverman, that should be worth at least 500 points.
“you did NOT ever say joking or not that if hillary lost all 3 states yu would kiss me butt… YOU NEVER SAID this what you posted in a few posts”
Me butt? Riverman, are you a 5-years old Irish immigrant, or what? I read your posts and LAUGHED at how petty you sound. If I heard this conversation on the playground, I’d tell you to knock it off or I’d give you detention. Please grow up, or go practice your English debating skills over at NICKELODEON.COM
BTW, I’m an Obama supporter and I’m embarrassed to think that you are one too. Please find another place to spread your inane comments. Clearly, you must be a NEO-CON plant who is trying to stir things up here on the heretofore ‘civil’ discussion board. “I tremble for my country when I consider that… ” people like you are in it. Thomas Jefferson.
I never knew until today, that if one didn’t support obama, that they were not a progessive, they were a Obama hater, a Hilarylover, a liar, an idiot, a war monger, a racist and had their head up their ass, with no credibility and should not be bogging comments here on this site.
~BE FOR KIDS~. I cannot believe you asked me, if I didn’t like Obama, because he is black. I just now read that post of yours. Kathyodat, I could not believe that of you, but I guess I must. Whenever on this Earth, have I ever given you, or anyone else, reason to ask that of me? I would rather have voted for John Edwards, or Dennis Kucinich and if Obama is the Demo candidate, I will vote for him, as I have stated previously on this thread and others. I would much rather vote for his wife, I believe she is honest.
It doesn’t matter what color anyone’s skin is to me, some of my good friends over the years have been Afro- Americans. I lived in West Philadelphia for three years as a kid and played soft ball and baseball with Wilt Chamberlan, eveyone liked him and he was a better baseball player than a basketball player. I palled around with several Afro-Americans for those three years. They weren’t black, ___ they were people.
During my 23 years in the service, I roomed with blacks and we were buddies, I had several Black crew members and we trusted one another as brothers. I had several work for me when I owned my service station, they were like sons to me. What difference does skin color make? Is that an issue with you, since you brought it up? Don’t sign off anymore to me with “Your Friend”. My friends would never ask that of me, especially in a public forum.
Join in with Riverman and Dogwagner Kathy, few here have objected to their obnoxious remarks on this thread and others. So apparantly I must be an outisder now. On another thread today, ~Riverman~ says, I’m a threat to this site, a mole and a rotton scumbag type of un-trustworthy individual, who has no credibility. Sounds as if you agree with the wizard. __ ~Bye~.
I opened with a post which could have been an interestng and good debating discussion, but instead, it was mostly a nasty shit fight, ___ for no good reason. What a shame, and so many of the really good bloggers are now gone.
Let’s elect this guy named Barack Hussein Obama to play patticake with our hard-earned petro-clients so we can keep the empire and the gluttony without all the imperial blowback.
Kem, I don’t approve of riverman’s attacks on you and consider them unjustified. I apologize to you for asking if you objected to Obama because he’s black. Obviously I was mistaken in thinking that you are satisfied with voting for Hillary, I have been confused by your posts on that topic. I admire many of your posts, and certainly never meant to hurt you but clearly I have been clumsy. I have valued your friendship and feel sad to lose it, even if I deserve to be told to take a hike. I may no longer be your friend, but you are still mine.
kathyodat
I strongly suggest anyone still reading the comment boards on this site give up now.
KEM is right, just a month or two ago, things were very different ’round here.
I think the “screen time” that this cycle’s Party Convention Delegate-Elections (primaries for the propagandized) have gotten is doing more harm than we can possibly see from this close.
For example, the degredation of this site into Obamadreams.org.
Hopefully his seemingly inevitable nomination will, once its “TV official” (back-room unofficial with window dressing for the Plebes) end this trend and this site can return to many issues that are of more immediate interest to normal, non-Party obsessed, people.
To all the Party hacks and associated boring, repeater-of-shit-people:
I hope you are getting paid, back end counts, but if your doing this for free then,…KILL YOURSELF.
Seriously, put a gun to your head and pull the trigger. Try and focus on reincarnating as a puppy if you like, just before you squeeze, who knows? It might help.
-matti.
I will gladly accept that Kathy. I too sometimes err, we all do. _________It never happened.
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Excellent points MATTI
It is my fault, for ever replying to Riverman and Dougwagner.
What a ridiculous circle jerk this is! There are truley historic developments occuring in our nation, and you guys sit around playing verbal tag.
count me out!!
A good start would be the end of the Clinton era. The triangulating DLC complicity and strategy to maintain their grip on the power apparatus of the party was at the expense of the party’s ability to confront or challenge events during the long Bush nightmare. For the Clintons it is all about winning and damn the cost. We see that in evidence right now.
Obama is not perfect–he is not ideal–he is a politician after all–but he is a talented politician and they are rare enough and he improves with the process. I do not expect miracles, but there is reason to hope the Clintons will finally get the boot and for that hope, for that change, that in turn causes hope, I am grateful.
For my money McDee @ 1:50 pm has captured the nub of the problem: With all her past ties, experience and fundraising advantages, HRC is apparently incapable of managing her own presidential campaign competently. The more people are exposed to her and Obama, the more ground she loses.
Obama says: “The problem that we face in America today is not a lack of good ideas. It’s that Washington has become a place where good ideas go to die.” It may be only rhetoric. It may be plagarised. But at least the guy can recognize a good slogan when he sees it. I’m not sure the same can be said about HRC.
Dangerous practice to follow anyone because they can speak well publicly. A fascination of mine is studying the Nazi period and how easily humanity went down that road because a group of thugs had good speakers who could put on quite a show and help them forget all of societies current woes.
Long years after our political animals are out of the spot light do we occasionally find out what was really going down. (Nixon was classic) Nothing has changed.
So called progressives/seekers of change seem once again to have chosen candidates that offer a dubious mixed bag. Sex and race and speaking ability have little to do with putting out a gadzillion fires all raging at once in our collective back yards.
The mystery of existence is that things can change all at once because somewhere in the repository of our collective dream a tipping point is reached. I don’t see either of the current Dem candidates as being free enough of their own egos to take us where we need to go.
Being a cynical, but practical, ‘progressive’ type - I decided I would take a gamble on the Dems next election time.
Placed $10 on Kucinich being the Dem’s VP nomination.
Placed further $10 on Edwards or Kucinich being next VP.
Obama, bless him, has re-engaged me with politics.
I think I met some of our posters here at bus stops. I walk away then walk back, and they are still talking. It’s sad when people’s family and friends quit listening to them due to incessant mania.
Well, if it’s going to be this similar to a chat room, I’ll probably opt for the real thing. We have the pretend Fabian Socialist posting, probably, so that his right wing blogger friends can have documentation that all progressives are Marxist-Globalists. Then we get to hear the right wing conspiracy theories regarding all the “mysterious deaths” surrounding the Clinton rise to power….
What’s next? Obama is an “Islamo-Fascist” Manchurian Mole, brainwashed from infancy in an Indonesian Madrassa? His wife hates America? She’s CFR and therefore part of the great globalist conspiracy? That Obama is a Black Muslim and his Christian Church excludes white people from attending and is in a covert alliance with Louis Farrakhan to defile White Women and destroy Israel? That Obama gave Crack to a Male Hooker?
I’m not a regular here but I love and respect this site.
I believe I will post in the future with more austerity and peruse the other comments with greater deference to the infrequent posters.
That’s my two cents.
Obama says he’ll restore Habeus Corpus… won’t that be nice?
KEM: Because so much chicanery surrounds a US election, (corrupted vote, the smeer campaigns, who’s funding whom and what backroom deals have gone down) predictions of any sort become tainted. With that being said, you did get a taste of what us professional prognosticators, modern soothsayers get hit with every time we meet someone who does not grant any credence to anything but what their limited mundane senses (and logic, its counterpart) can deliver to them. You get the award for “heretic” of the day. Welcome to my cosmic club!
Kem wrote: “There are at least 50 long time, very decent bloggers, who posted here at CD, they were informative, fun and teaching good things at the same time. They have stopped posting in the past three to four weeks.”
Though probably not among the venerated 50, I nonetheless thought to add a note to help change the energy here a little. (Nb: if I don’t post much it’s usually coz I am weighed with extra responsiblities, -I help many…)
The main article speaks of people vying to gain power and influence.
Thereafter, a bit more vying, along with some worthy comments, some misunderstandings, and hurt feelings, bruised egos, and sadness / anger too.
In all such situations, Love & Lightness invariably helps.
~ And forgiveness helps.
~ And generosity of spirit helps.
~ And mutual *respect* helps
~ And humility helps (-loads!)
~ And smiling in place of scowling, helps.
~ And walking a mile in another’s shoes helps.
~ And thinking about the power of UNITY and BROTHERHOOD helps.
~ And being willing to pass over small things, and instead to focus on *Bigger Things* helps.
~ And selflessness always helps.
~ And freely admitting that we are ALL like stopped clocks!!
(- such clocks are wrong most of the day, but right about twice a day!)
…and if none of that helped, in the spirit of brotherhood, a renewed lightness of heart, and love & laughter, here are some quotes which may:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“If at first you don’t succeed, then skydiving is not for you!” (Unknown)
“Statistics are human beings with the tears wiped off.” (Paul Brodeur)
“For every problem, there exists a simple and elegant solution which is absolutely wrong!” (J. Wagoner, U.C.B. Mathematics)
“Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker is sorry.” (Mark Twain)
“Reason and love are sworn enemies.” (Corneille)
“A tree never hits an automobile except in self-defence!” (Unknown)
“We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we are all going to perish together as fools.” (M. Luther King)
“Don’t speak unless you can improve upon the silence.” (Spanish Proverb)
“Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves; they will never cease to be amused.” (Unknown)
“Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer.”
(Bruce Graham)
“Language is our way of communicating what we want and who we are. By using bad language, we diminish the divine spark within us that defines our humanity.” (Laura Schlesinger)
“Love and concern for all, are not things some of us are born with and others are not. - Rather, they are results of what we do with our minds: We can choose to transform our minds so that they embody love, or we can allow them to develop habits and false concepts of separation.” (Sharon Salzberg)
__________________________
Well m’dears, I hope a few bits in there help raise the spirits of co-workers hereabouts?
(and a special hug to BeForKids Kathy, coz I can invariably feel yr sincere and striving heart).
[Edit: ‘Hi’ to my old friend SiouxRose!]
xx
U-C-D
Wow, infighting to the nth degree among the CD lefties!!! KemP upset, Riverman’s lenghty postings (I got some)- Imagine what it’s like on the “ultra right/conservative types” fuming over McCain! However, it’s a process that brought us McCain, Huckabee, Clinton and Obama. Being a Kuchinich, then Edwards supporter (or jinxer?) we go with what we got. No candidate will be progressive enough, christian enough, tough enough, anti illegal immigrant enough, rich enough, smart enough, etc but it what it is. I’m for one, am amazed that Obama is this close (hope, vision, blah blah, yeah yeah), but have to admit, he has inspired action and as mentioned earlier, brought out the worst in Hillary (some say the real Hillary, ha ha). BUt have to admit, many are participating in the political process. How and if they actually vote, if actually counted, oh well, it’s America, get off the chair, away fro the PC and do something, take action, get involved outside the CD circle. For Chrissakes McCain is being villied by by GOP megapatriots and megachristians for not being bloodthirsty enough (See also Romney and Ah-nold). But I’m still don’t what to take of McCain not having the the support of the Coulters and Limbaughs - it’s probably a machiavellian blessing for John to lure/keep GOP moderates votes in November! Mitch Romney wasn’t the “right type of Christian” and Ron Paul’s is their Kucinich counterpart, though only on the issue of ending the Iraq war/occupation. Now if McCain’s desire for a 100 yr Iraq occupation doesn’t mollify GOP psychos, what will quench the NEOCON/megachristian blood thirst? Now back, to DEM primary, Hillary relied on early name recognition, which is a + and -, and many hispanics (mainly of Mexican heritage, not Cuban) voted for her initially due to name familiarity (”hispanic brand loyaly” for you business types!!!). But Obama did well in Illinois with a large hispanic population and “Bill’s attack” didn’t help Hillary’s cause, and Obama will do better in Texas with Hispanic vote, maybe not the majority of latin votes, but an increasing percentage, if so, it’s over for Hillary. I think a big chunk of US DEM and GOP voters “in the middle” are tired of the same old stuff being fed to us from both parties (Rudy G, Tancredo, Clinton, etc). That’s it for me, now unleash the hounds of CD bloggers!!! And yes, DEM Congress start ending the war, that’s why you’re ratings and credibility are low. Donna Edwards (Dem candidate - MD) congratulations and good luck, likewise to Dennis Kucinich in his re-election campaign.
Sounds Like an Obama Love-in…….
50% of the Liberal Democrats support Mrs Clinton for many different reasons and when Obama wins the nomination…….who are they going to vote for in November ? We who have never voted for a repub. have decided……it will be McCain for us as we can-not stand anything about Obama.
Our primary consideration for any so-called liberal candidate has always been do they support the Death Penalty-Obama Does-end of discussion.
Well, if it’s an Obama love in, the message is spreading. But the mega/ultra GOP Conservative hatred will need a new target if Hillary is not the candidate. The mega/ultras have already devoured their own, but the GOP as stated in Rolling Stone is in danger of becoming a party of fringe elements (southern “conservatives” that will never vote for a women or less than white candidate for president, ultra religious types that would replace the constituion and science/math books in schools with bibles, and of course those lovable Minutemen types, that’s the GOP base) along with the wealthy elite (got the money, not the voting numbers). GOP lost the Latin votes in California with Pete Wilson, CA used to be Red, now Blue after scapegoating Mexicans; GOP will lose Texas votes in Nov 08 also due to hostile attitudes towards Latins/Illegals in attempt to pander to the base. Most GOPs in the southwest are actually moderate towards “them Mexicans”, but like ultra/mega conservative obsession with gays, abortions, terrorists, and illegals, it’s a old tired message that doesn’t work anymore and never really was a successful govt policy, but a effective politcal tool.. 2 Billion dollars a week for an Iraq war/occupation is not the answer and time to change; DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT, Pelosi and Reid, end the Iraqi fiasco in 2009, or DEM will lose their base also.
I reckon it’s about time for me to write “The making of a Rainbow 2008,” ya’ll!
Now it’s sure clear Hilary Rodham Klanton has shown her “electability” so much so that we now know she would insure John McCain’s if the Democrats are stupid enough to put her up as their presidential candidate. Hey, don’t hold your breath, the big money contributors to that candidate of the NRA, KKK, DLC, NDN, SHIT, and the GOP isn’t looking like such a shoo in anymore.
As far W’s George Greed’s remark about liberals, please don’t talk about those you know nothing about.
Blessings to you UN-common-dreams, you do LIGHT up the room.
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man’s need but not for man’s greed »
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King
“R C Cola,” we “must thank you” for that bit of Irish bashing horse hockey, and I say that as an Anglo Saxon who is fed up with those who attack the great Irish people. You can go to hell!
Kem Patrick, you must be one of those Bubbas that ain’t as smart as they think they are.
Now let’s start thinking about an unbeatable ticket for 2008 to knock out the straight lies express gang, and Jim Webb and Barak Obama looks like it to be it. Hey, it ought to be a done deal. Obama as Northern black and Webb as a Southern white, and both relatively decent, A unity of party, of North and South, black and white, and right on across the boad. Oh, and Webb can kick some booty just like he did in the midterm election in Virginia.
So you disagree with me AD and therefore you are as smart as you think you are, right. I do agree about the Irish bashing. I’m half Irish and my wife came from Ireland. She’s as samrt as she thnks she is too.
Uhhh, John Edwards is not in an elected office. Be a bit difficult to vote him out.
Thank you UN-common-dreams, and it’s good to hear from you and siouxrose. And I loved your list of what helps. May I lift it, if I give credit where due?
riverman, Edwards admitted he made a mistake. Hillary Clinton still won’t admit she made a mistake. We’ve already had 7 years of a president who can’t admit to a mistake. We don’t need any more of that.
kathyodat
Riverman, you’re just repeating yourself, and it’s better if we don’t go after each other. Surely we can find common enemies to fight.
kathyodat
Riverman, my post was not in response to your last. I am willing to consider that Edwards has seen the error of his ways, although maybe he hasn’t. If he’s withholding his endorsement to see who will win and then jump on, it’s for political reasons and not for the common good. It’s obvious Hillary hasn’t seen the error of her ways.
kathyodat
BeForKids wrote: “Thank you UN-common-dreams, and it’s good to hear from you and Siouxrose. And I loved your list of what helps. May I lift it, if I give credit where due?”
Dear Kathy, yes of *course* you may ‘lift’ that which lifted you!
I am pleased that my words were read and understood by at least one or more souls here, -that’s what counts, (even if such words did apparently fall upon deaf ears in other quarters!)
Never mind, -it’s important that we at least try: “Let those who have ears, hear…” -and so on. It would appear that some folk are so tediously combative that, if they didn’t have *someone* to rant at, they would then begin ranting at themselves!
Such inner disquiet is not so very attractive on public pages such as these, ~ more especially when there is important work to be done…
Oh well, ~ I suppose a man should have a hobby!
***We humans can never beneficially change the world, until we first change ourselves.***
In fact, by first improving ourselves, we *do* then improve the world!
It takes a while for some folk to figure this through, -they much prefer that everyone *else* should change, even as they themselves remain stuck in their own fusty little corners, yelling at the world in all their graceless, impotent splendour!
:p
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The main article above speaks of Obama and Clinton, and we could argue till the cows come home about the merits (or otherwise) of those two beings, but until we each grasp that we ourselves desperately need to purify and expel our *own* particular set of inner demons, we will never do other than create further puddles in the world.
I have genuine compassion and patience on this score: because we’ve ALL been there, — we *all* started this journey as incontinent puppy dogs!
For those who are *sincere* about changing the world, –and not just listening to the tiresome cacophony of their own bellicose tirades, — this is the only sensible place to begin.
I very sincerely wish folks well on the long path towards their (ineluctable) personal development.
Be well m’dear.
xx
U-C-D
Well, it’s in the archives now Riverman, so you’ll have to find another article to post your “important” opinions.
UN-common-dreams — If I might add to your image of “we *all* started this journey as incontinent puppy dogs!”, it appears that we’ve run out of newspapers, and the floor is looking like it needs a good scrubbing.
Some pets (and the early phases of human development), are so committed to the idea of staying on the newspaper - like one from my childhood.
He knew the rules, but the often absent landlords of the floor one time forgot the newspaper. Not to worry, this puppy did his #2 on a 3×5 index card, carefully backing up and then going forward several times, to stay within the “lines”. Heck’a'job brownie!
Rules are so important when we’re young, and I also agree with another poster recalling that ‘everything one needs to know we learned in kindergarten’.
Good point, namaste. As a kid I had a puppy who figured out the rules were to pee on the floor, shove his nose in it and run to the back door.
namaste, I looked up your username. I like it too.
kathyodat
Click on Namaste to learn more.
It affirms the mutual highest and deepest in ALL.