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Screw the Voters. Let Superdelegates Decide!
Millions of Americans, many of them first-time activists, voted for Barack Obama in the Democratic Party primary. They voted in good faith, expecting their votes to be counted and respected.
Now many young voters are discovering that there are two kinds of delegates at Democratic Party Conventions: real delegates (duly elected from the states) and fake delegates, delegates artificially created by the Democratic National Committee. These delegates, who lack direct support from primary voters, are called superdelegates.
With over 200,000 signatures, a Move-On petition to Democratic Party superdelegates reads: "The superdelegates should let the voters decide between Clinton and Obama. Then support the people's choice."
The seating of delegates at Democratic Party conventions has often been a source of conflict. In 1964, Fanny Lou Hamer led a sit-in on the convention floor. The Mississippi Freedom Democrats wanted nothing more than a few convention seats-seats to which they were entitled by open, fair elections in their home state. Walter Mondale, who was to become the architect of the current superdelgate system, refused to seat the elected delegates of color in 1964. Wait until 1968, Mondale insisted, as the representative of the Credentials Committee.
The non-violent mass movements of the '60s, the passage of the Voting Rights Act, the rise of the feminist movement, the change in voting age, the anti-nuclear campaigns- all generated a groundswell of new voters in Democratic party politics. However, far from welcoming the newly enfranchised activists, party leaders were filled with fear-class and race fear. They never accepted the democratic reforms enacted in the 1970s, when youth and people of color participated for the first time in establishment politics.
The superdelegate system, as we know it, came from the backlash of the 1980s. In January 1982, supported by Mondale, the Hunt Commission and Democratic National Committee reversed grassroots reforms. They rewrote the rules, not to make elections open and fair, but to make sure that centrist (right-wing) candidates maintained hegemony over nominees and party affairs. It was out of fear of new uncontrollable voters that the Commission created a block of uncommitted delegates drawn from a primarily white, male establishment. Mondale, the same insider who prevented elected Mississipppians from taking their seats in 1964, played the pivotal role in creating hundreds of unelected delegates in 1984. Superdelegates comprised 14 percent of the convention in 1984, and eighty-five percent of the superdelegates picked Mondale. Not long after superdelegates picked "the sure winner," Mondale was trounced in the presidential election. Nevertheless, the superdelgate number passed the 600 mark by 1988. The Jesse Jackson campaign, especially the massive victory over Dukkakis on Super Tuesday, electrified the party and the country. Jackson won 7 million primary votes in 1988, more than Mondale won as the nominee in 1984. Many party regulars were gripped with panic, and some superdelegates organized a stop-Jackson movement within the party. Jackson protested the role of superdelegates, but his challenge went unheeded. Party leaders continued to look for ways to blunt the growing power of grassroots movements. While they could not stop voters from voting, they could dilute the impact of the reform movements by manufacturing added voters as a countervailing force.
Mondale was quite open about the undemocratic aims of the superdelegate system. In a number of talks, he acknowledged that superdelegates were created with the explicit aim of preventing voter insurgencies. He espoused his anti-democratic sentiments in the New York Times, February 2, 1992, where he called for expansion of superdelgate numbers:
"The election is the business of the people. But the nomination is more properly the business of the parties....The problem lies in the reforms that were supposed to open the nominating process....Party leaders have lost the power to screen candidates and select a nominee. The solution is to reduce the influence of the primaries and boost the influence of the party leaders....The superdelgate category established within the Democratic Party after 1984 allows some opportunity for this, but should be strengthened."
Today, faced with enthusiastic, grassroots support for Barack Obama, Hilary Clinton now espouses the old Mondale position (in the guarded, euphemistic language of a candidate), pitting the party regulars against the danger of the popular vote. I do not intend here to compare the merits of the candidates. But there is a question of principle involved in the superdelgate controversy. The very integrity of our elections is at stake. No vote is safe when a self-appointed group can nullify the results of a primary election that displeases them.
When Obama recently told a reporter that he thinks superdelegates should respect the wishes of the primary voters, Clinton took exception. "Superdelegates are by design supposed to exercise independent judgment," she said. She also claimed that Obama's view is "contrary to what the definition of superdelegate has historically been." Historically she is right, of course. Superdelegates were never expected to respect the integrity of elections. But are we compelled today to embrace a system that was corrupt in its very design? Should voters be supervised, and finally overruled, when the superdelegates disagree with their wishes?
All Democratic members of the House and Senate become superdelegates automatically. Let us not forget that George Bush led the vast majority of Democrats by the nose into pre-emptive war, implicating most of the current superdelegates in the biggest catastrophe of recent decades. What makes these individuals wiser than nurses, technicians, custodians, lawyers, teachers, athletes, fire fighters, proprietors-all who voted in good faith in the recent primary? Why don't the superdelegates do the job they were elected to do-end the war-and let the voters do their job in the primaries-select the next nominee?
And finally, what is the difference between superdelegate intervention in the outcome of the primary and the right-wing intervention in Florida in 2000, when Republican judges stopped the counting of votes, and appointed Bush as President? How many times will the loser in an election be imposed on the electorate?
Superdelgate Intervention Unconstitutional
Even critics of superdelegate deals tend to underestimate the gravity of the issue. In its very essence, the superdelegate system is unconstitutional. It destroys the right of primary voters to choose their own nominee. It offends the principle of one person one vote. In three primary cases (Nixon v. Herndon, 1927, Nixon v. Condon, 1932, Smith v. Allwright, 1944) the Supreme Court affirmed that the right to vote in a primary (a right which includes the right to be counted and respected), is protected by the Constitution. Officials cannot legally circumvent the vote. These were discrimination cases, but the arguments apply directly to the superdelegate situation in the Democratic primary.
Up to a point, a political party is master of its own house. But no party, or group within a party, can legally tamper with primary results. In Terry v. Adams (1953), the Court ruled against the "Jay Bird Association," a group of powerful white Democrats who tried to create a private enforcement process within the Democratic primary. Justice Clark ruled that "any part of the machinery for choosing officials becomes subject to the Constitution's restraints."
The superdelegate system flouts the very purpose for which primaries were conceived. "Fighting" Bob LaFollette, the Wisconsin progressive who organized the first primaries in 1903, hated boss-controlled conventions. The aim of the primaries is to remove the nominations from the hands of professionals and the wealthy donors whom professionals obey. The superdelegate issue should not be resolved through deals or negotiations. The integrity of elections is not negotiable. The superdelegate system deserves to be abolished.
Oh yes, there is one small practical consideration, an afterthought perhaps. If the superdelegates, in their arrogance, defy the majority will of the voters, the stain on the Democratic Party nominee-Obama or Clinton-would nearly destroy the chances for victory in November. The Party would be divided. Idealistic voters would be disillusioned. And McCain, who happens to be associated with electoral reform (McCain backed Arizona's Clean Money system) could easily turn superdelegate meddling into a scandal. The Republican Party has no superdelegates.
Respecting the will of the voters is a precondition to unity in the Democratic Party and victory in November.
Paul Rockwell, formerly assistant professor of philosophy at Midwestern University, is a national columnist who lives in the Bay Area.
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85 Comments so far
Show AllThe primaries were a $400,000,000 joke. Obama the Fog-Man beats Corporate Hillary!
It's hard to see how super-delegates could be much worse.
If Obama is not the clear winner before the convention, he is toast. The Democratic establishment will put Hillary in as the nominee guaranteeing that McCain will win the presidency. Disenfranchising Obama will result in half of the Democratic base simply staying home on election day. How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. With 70% of the country against the Iraq war, we will have an election between two warmongers.
Great article, great posts. If the Clinton people overrule the voters on this it will be one of many betrayals that Clinton and the party bosses have crammed down our throats. Even as we anticipate the restoration of our system through the the hope that Obama might be on our side when and if he gets in, the Dems in congress and senate act as though the President has a gun to their heads. Maybe he does. This could be the year of alternative parties. We need to pay attention to them as well. I will vote for Obama, although I don't have total confidence in him. I will not vote for Hillary because I do have total confidence in her. I know she will (continue to) betray us.
Vote Green or Socialist. Granted, it won't mean a lot unless it is done in MASSIVE numbers but energy wasted whining about the corrupt system ain't gonna change it. Intellectualizing on pages like these ain't gonna change it.
What's gonna change it is....Hm? NOTHING!
"Mondale (ancient Piece of Dim Shit)... acknowledged that superdelegates were created with the explicit aim of preventing voter insurgencies."
Superdelegates are an Electoral College for the Dims. Like the Ring of Power, it works, but once they put it on, they join the DARK SIDE. In this case, they signed up more than 30 years ago. They are in it up to their tidy whiteys.
I HOPE THEY DO take it from BHO. I hope they demonstrate to the entire world that "Democracy" is the joke that everyone here already knows it to be.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
I'm no BHO fan, he talks pretty but this ain't my first rodeo. That said, for the Dims to take it away from him and give the nomination to HRC, well, that would be perfect. Fucking traitorous Dim animals.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
Are you willing to shut down Washington DC from a Monday to Friday with 3 million other Americans?
The monsters will not stop until WE ACT and not through some Dim shill organization. And we The People will show the monsters what they can do with their "Free Speech Cages for Citizens".
Pieces of 8.
What if most of the superdelegates don't care about a divided party or even about losing in November? What if their overriding concern is keeping the party corporation-friendly? In other words, what if they force voters' hand?
First there would be anger, resentment. Then there would be voter absence in November. Then there would be McCain being sworn in as president. The "supers" can bank on the whole thing blowing over, for, after all, what choice would Democratic voters have? It's not as if they would form a third party or anything.
Imagine the consequences.
1.Hillary(and the corpratocracy)pull out the super delegate hat trick.
2.McCain gets elected; war never ending.
3.Hillary will then no doubt lose the next senate election and become a national pariah.
OR
1.See #1 above.
2.Somehow squeeks by and is elected. Howls of protest all over the country.
3.She will now be beholden to no one but the large corporate interests she favors.
4.The U.S. winds up with a female George Bush.
Either or, we lose.
In 2006, the DNC failed to truly support the voters of Connecticut who nominated Ned Lamont for the US Senate. Consequently (and with the aid of a stupid legislative loophole), Joe Lieberman remained the senator from that state. If the superdelegates and/or Florida and Michigan decide this process, against the wishes of the voters, then it is time for a new party.
The likeliest scenario is that the superdelegates will respect the wishes of the voters, even if -- ESPECIALLY IF -- Obama wins the pledged delegates.
The reason is that those with power in this country really aren't threatened by him. Capitalism accommodates its FDRs, its JFKs, its Barack Obamas. It needs liberals to sustain its legitimacy. Liberals offer capitalism the alibi of fairness. And now is a good time for liberals to run the government.
Thanks for this detailed history and absolutely accurate and well-argued essay on the scandal of the "super delegate" system. It should be broadly circulated, especially within the campaigns, to help avert yet another election in which the Democratic Party destroys itself by sheer stupidity.
as a Florida voter, I say not enough attention has been paid to our disenfranchisement... talk about the constitution... did we vote to not be heard?... I do think the issues are complicated... when people talk about "the people's voice"...which people- the ones that actually vote? the small tiny majority that exercise their right to vote or moreoever-can? have transportation? can get off long shifts at work in time (or have the where-with-all to have learned about early voting, etc.), how about the ones who can't read?
I am hoping my vote in florida can count and it makes sense there is some adjustment in superdelegates to represent those of us whose voices were cut off--not by our choosing... yes it is complicated if you add into the mix that the candidates didnt work the ground here, but you get my point.
cheers-h
Surrender,
I'm choosing to NOT go along with your screen name, and cast a (sadly) meaningless vote for a third party this November - perhaps ensuring a McCain victory.
I think it was RFK Jr who said both parties are corrupt: Republicans are 95% bought and paid for, while Dems are 70% bought and paid for. I agree with that sentiment. However, I also choose to vote for the lesser of evils. I've heard too many Naderites espouse that "there would have been no difference" between what Bush has done the last 7 years versus what Gore/Kerry would have done. Bullshit, IMHO.
It took the Christianists over 30 years to put their imprimateur on the Republican party (and I hope they are the cause of its demise/readjustment). I, for one, will continue to fight within the Democratic party, especially during primaries when we can bring in new blood to replace/awaken the old Blue Dog, DLCers.
As to what I do, besides yapping on the InterTubes: call elected officials, call in to shows (call taken twice on NPR nationally), write letters, phone bank, GOTV, contribute when I can. Oh, and always vote. No civil disobediance (yet).
I was for Edwards, now for Obama, otherwise for any Democrat (still guilty for a selfish youth as a Republican).
"They rewrote the rules, not to make elections open and fair, but to make sure that centrist (right-wing) candidates maintained hegemony over nominees and party affairs. It was out of fear of new uncontrollable voters that the Commission created a block of uncommitted delegates drawn from a primarily white, male establishment."
Vote for wall-to-wall Democrats, huh? Like they are going to change anything that goes against their power base.
This is all very predictable. People want power and when they have it, they want to keep it. Democrats are people, right?
It's time for the insurgents to rise to the cause and to the defense of democracy. It's time to do what the power structure fears. It's time to vote your conscience knowing that doing otherwise empowers the likes of what we now have. It's time to quietly, yet resolutely, do what we need to do to stop the erosion of democracy and the march of fascism. It's time.
Courage, conscience, action!
The writer is a mush headed liberal and is a very confused thinker. The article and many of the comments are not very enlightening. I almost never advocate reading an article in the NYT, but there was a decent one on the question of the establishment a few days back. It was, and this is not normally the case, far better than this one, and I recommend it to the reader. The super delegates issue is a very serious one not given to simple answers. The consipiracy speculations about the establishment are particularly off-base because it is not at all empirically clear who the establishment is when it comes to the super delegates. And despiteTHE AUTHOR'S BELIEF, super delegate additions were not a reaction to establishment versus people power. Such a claim is down right silly. For the present, is Ted Kennedy an establishment or anit-establishment person? John Kerry, Tom Dashel, John Edwards? Or Jonh Lewis, Chuck Schumer, Richard Durbin, Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley? These are people found on both sides of the divide. Many House members are concerned about Hillary because they serve in Republican districts and fear the adverse influence she might encourage if she is the nominee. I am not at all a supporter of either OBAMA OR HILLAry. The important factor is who can best defeat John McCain, probably the most dangerous man in the world because he is a war monger and war criminal who is only marginally more intelligent than Bush, and there would be many Bush hold over around him, even Uncle Toms such as Colin Powell. One other consideration about super delegates; in the past, George Wallace was running in the Democratic primary, and there was a concern as to how to stop his being the nominee if he won the primaries and caucases. Later on, when he ran as an independent, there were scenarios as to how to deny him the presidencey in the electroal college had he won the majority. The super delegates are not just super reflectors of who won the delegate votes, and should not be considered so. The fact is that the party members who were not supporters of either of the candidates need to have their views reflected as party members--a point that is totally neglected-- in the article and responses. I would prefer super delegates making the selection than people such as the author and many of those commenting on it because conspiracy advocates are dangerous people that confuse and obscure the real issues and complexity of politics. We should all be concerned about the posible election of McCain and the focus should be on that, nothing else in my view.
In support of Mr. Rockwell, against the Clinton camp who simply wants more of the same "failed policies of the past", in support who those who want change at any price because it can't be worse than these past eight years, nothing can, I submit a letter requested by the Obama's campaign director. It is an open letter to the super delegates. We all know that the entrenched congress is opposed to Obama and the will of America. They are afraid of change, which is necessary for global survival. I am opposed to the infrastructure of the Greens since the level of anarchy dictates against any real positive direction. Or for that matter a run by Nader, not enough charisma to attract sufficient voters, not that his message lacks importance.
Change is the only hope for this country and the world!
REQUESTED OPEN LETTER DEMOCRATIC CHAIR:
Dear Mr. David Plouffe,
Thank you for your request, although by e-mail. I am a visual artist, Filmmaker and global communicator. I have recently returned from Africa and work on both sides of the Atlantic in Europe. I know from my work that people for the first time in a long time are hoping for a change in America. Europeans believe that Barak Obama offers the possibility that America will once again join the global community. His stated environmental objectives create enthusiasm in those in other parts of the world.
There are some who believe that the democratic will of the people should be overturned by the presumption of power as in the super-delegate issue of the Democratic Party. This raises the specter of large-scale defections toward the Republican agenda should the Democratic Party not align itself with the peoples democratic and non-militant direction. Should this occur it would affect world security and the issue of climate change directly. These issues are dependent upon radical solutions, which include global economic changes. Defection of democrats and particularly the young people-who have a hope of change and believe that change is necessary-risk an upheaval that could possibly tilt the election toward the Republicans. They would refuse to turn out for the Clinton camp.
Many fear that Obama may lose the election as a result of the strange electoral system and candidate approval mechanisms, felt to be undemocratic. This reflects the basic problem of what many think is a so-called democracy in America where a win in the popular vote does not guarantee the change in direction of the country. The Electoral College can make a change as we saw in the 2004 election which allowed Bush to take office; this renders the popular vote, void. The Democratic Super-delegate issue is a reflection of the absurd non-democratic American condition of the Electoral College. Should Barak Obama win the popular vote from America's Democratic caucuses, delegates and committed states prior to the convention I do not believe that he should accept second place as vice president, which seems to be the mood of the media controlled races and spin jockeys. I believe that he should maintain himself as the democratically designated elected leader of the Democratic Party.
Further, should he be forced to that position by the party, he should leave the Democratic Party and form a third party and run against both Hillary Clinton and John McCain. This is what every one who is really thinking in this country and abroad wants and thinks the USA very much needs. Should that occur I think he should attempt to attract the Green Party and other great thinkers, who believe as he does, and his rhetoric suggests, that we must move away from the "failed policies of the past" if we are to save this world for future generations.
He has stated he has run because the time is now not in the future. The changes needed, are as he puts it, "right now", not in the future and the perils of environmental collapse are approaching so quickly that we do not have the luxury of another eight years of "business as usual" which would be the Clinton way, before he could claim the office of president.
He is a populist candidate that has offered hope! He should continue that platform with the courage to take these courageous steps necessary if the standard-bearer position is denied to him to effect party change and changes in American direction. He should take this radical shift and direction, if necessary! By doing this he would serve notice to the Democratic Party that democracy is lost to America, by creating a third party should the first place be denied. Should the party be given to Clinton, we all lose and the possibility of change and it goes down with her selection. Should he follow the Clinton policy as suggested by some pundits by accepting the VP we all fail.
If he takes half the country with him to a third party we all have a chance. He believes that the failed policies of the past exist within the entrenched two party systems in congress represented by the Super delegates. The only way of preventing another move to those failed policies is not to allow Hillary Clinton to win by forcing Barak Obama to take second place.
This public denial by him of allowing super-delegates to determine the election would be a way of circumventing the second place the congress and CNN want. It would force the super delegates to reflect the will of the people. I heard one of the super-delegates speaking from Georgia. He was black and under examination by the press, it was clear that the position of many "super delegates" would be to overturn the national-will, regardless of Barak Obama taking the popular vote. This would cause the disaffection of the youth of America. No one has a right to do that since the older generation through "the failed policies of the past" has put the USA and the World in the present circumstances of possibly destroying their future and their life.
In the final analysis the USA did not rise to the level of intelligence and courage necessary for this time by electing George Bush to office for two terms and I doubt that it will by choosing Barak Obama to lead. The media and the democratic establishment suggests this scenario by supporting the status quo and have the temerity to think it can choose the way the people's will and nullifying the very democracy they espouse, the height of cynical belief. Wolf Blitzer on CNN is the scourge of presumption and simply a clone of the establishment.
0. Aggie67 February 16th, 2008 2:20 am 
I hope you Americans realise that we, in the rest of the world, are following these primary elections of yours with the greatest of interest. Whatever you do effects us so much. The election of George W Bush seemed to have been such a corruption of the democracy you hold dear, please don't let it happen again by your incessent bickering amongst yourselves.The world needs you to get back to REAL DEMOCRACY, so that we can all live a safer life.What we can't understand is why you don't seem to have "one man, one vote" It all seems to be based on which candidate has the most money, delegates and very strong lobbyists.Definitely not one, man one vote and the winner of the popular vote doesn't seem to win the election. Weird definition of democracy.

This is an open response from a European blogger. Included below is an open letter to the director of Barak Obama's campaign director and to Barak Obama. The media continues to do what it can to cast Obama in a secondary position but many of us are aware of this tactic to diffuse his candidacy. I think the party and the public should be put on notice that this is the election that affects the young people and with this new support this tactic will not be tolerated. THIS ELECTION WILL BE BASED ON THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.
This following link is not a complete list, but if your representatives are on the list as "decided", you'll know which candidate they've selected, like it or not!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2008_United_States_Democratic_Party_Superdelegates_%28by_endorsement%29#Hillary_Clinton_endorsements
And they say that the US is a democracy.......hahaha!
The point of drawing out the Clinton Obama drama is to make the horse race exciting. If it was all over on Feb 4th, how would the media keep your attention on the "election" and not on the continuing destruction of our economy, our environment, our civil liberties, and of the Iraqis lives and country.
Instead, this endless bickering keeps people distracted and energized on pointless rooting for one or the other corporate candidate.
Habitat Vic, do you have any reason to assert nastily that Gore/Kerry would have been different from Bush? The accelerated destruction of our civil liberties began under Clinton, and he waged war on Iraq and Yugoslavia while Gore was his vice president. Kerry saluted and reported for duty in 2004, pledging more troops for Iraq.
Just asserting that Gore/Kerry would have been different is not convincing to me. You have no evidence, let alone proof.
I have been posting for a month that it will come down to the convention, which will choose Mrs. BJ Clinton, thanks to the 796 superduperdelegates (70 of whom have not even been named yet).
If that proves to be correct I promise to drink heavily for several days.
There's only one dance at the Democratic Party.
Take a step to the right, take a step to the right.
Hold hands with the person on your right-let them lead.
Take a step to the right.
Even so, I still hold to my recommendation that you vote Dem for President, and independent (preferably Green) for the House.
The only way to change the behavior of the Democratic Party is to threaten them with involuntary retirement.
Vote Green, for a change.
It is easier to see all the time why the Repug corporate media pushed both Obama and Hillary equally as front runners. They are now laughing their heads off as the Dims self-destruct as usual. One thing the Repugs are great at is winning strategy.
If Dims were half as smart, they would be supporting their candidates, rather than tearing both down and bitching about the super delegates. If they keep this up, they deserve to lose.
Its all Orewellian speak:
Freedom of speech
Freedom of the press
Democracy
Wake up people we live in an oligarchy. Not to mention our entire Congress has sold out to a foreign power desperate for war with Iran.
Its soo over. Time to move or time to protest.
IT AMUSES ME..ALL THIS RANTING ABOUT "DISAPPOINTING
THE YOUNG PEOPLE"...WHAT A CROCK....
ALSO...GET THE REAL SCOOP ABOUT SUPER DELEGATE
SET-UP...WILLIE BROWN FORMER S.F. MAYOR..TOLD
WOLF BLITZER..."MOST PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND...BUT
THEY SHOULD KNOW...THAT IN CAUCUSES AND PRIMARIES...
"PEOPLE CROSS OVER AND CHANGE AFFILIATION...SO THEY
COULD BE AN INFLUENCE"...MEANING OF COURSE LIKE THE
MANY REPUBLICANS I HEARD/READ ETC SAY...CROSS OVER
VOTE FOR OBAMA...THEN NEXT DAY REREGISTER YOUR
AFFILIATION....YOU KNOW WHY THEY IN NUMBERS DID THIS..
BECAUSE...ALL THE REPUBLICANS KNOW....OBAMA WILL BE
TOAST FACING MCCAIN ET AL.. THEY ALSO KNOW...HILIARY
BEEN THERE....AND WOULD BE FAR MORE FORMIDABLE....
I'M NOT EVEN A HILIARY FAN...BUT I SENSE IN THE LAST
TWO MONTHS....A RAT IN THE WOOD PILE.....OBAMA
JUST DIDN'T WALK OUT INTO THE SUNLIGHT AND "ALL"
FELL FOR HIM...HE'S BEEN WOOING THE SUPERDELEGATES
AFTER LAST ELECTION WITH MOOLAH...PLUS SETTING UP
HIS STRATEGIES TO RUN....NO DOUBT HE'S A DECENT SORT
OF FELLOW..BUT MY MIND'S EYE...ONLY SEES ...A TALL..
RATHER COLOURLESS FELLOW...WELL EDUCATED...ARTICULATE.
BUT CERTAINLY NOT CHARISMATIC...AS A MATTER OF FACT..
IF ONE WATCHES CLOSELY...HE HAS AN ARROGANT STREAK
JUST LIKE THE ONE HE'S HOPING TO REPLACE....
WITH ALL THE HORRENDOUS PROBLEMS IN THIS COUNTRY
TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE...KNEELING...AT WORDS LIKE
HOPE..INSPIRE...ETC. DO THEY REALLY THINK...A
DRIVE FOR POWER BEHIND ALL THIS..IS NOT THERE?
I guess there's only one way to avert this foolishness, and that's for people to vote for Obama in such massive numbers that the superdelegates don't matter. Of course that was what people needed to do back in 2000, as regards Gore, which they didn't.
I'm still amazed that enough people voted for Bush so that his cronies could manage to steal the election in 2000.
It was a simple equation, really: Gore = intelligent man, Bush = stupid man.
So why did Americans vote for the stupid one? Do we just identify with stupid people, or are we afraid of smart people?
You perople that blather on abt "undemocratic" practices of the major parties are complete idiots. Why should anyone except party members have any say over who a political party chose for the nominee? These aren't elections to a public oiffice. Part of the problem is that the media soaks this stuff up when in fact it is innerparty activities. If you think the party selsects its candidates "incirrectly" then join the party and change. Cripes.
This is a joke. All of this talk about "democracy" and here the dems have this system I was completely unaware of - the party choosing the leader? Hmmm... smells a bit like what they do in China and N. Korea.
I just e-mailed the DNC and told them they'd lose one loyal democrat if the superdelegates decide the nominee. WTF?!! I see no point in voting if our votes don't count. Let them all screw this country.
We welcome into the GREEN PARTY all fed up, disgruntled, and betrayed Democrats and the few honest Republicans who are disenchanted with the Republican Crime Family. Anyone not "willfully ignorant" must know that we no longer have representative government in the United States.
Unless people prefer living in an authorian dictatorship, it is time to abandon the duopoly of the R's and D's which share the blame for this increase in oligarchy.
WHAT IF THEY HELD AN ELECTION AND NOBODY CAME???
Our pseudo democratic system serves primarily to legitimize our government..... to put a veneer of legitimacy on things. "You had your vote"..... "If you don't like them vote them out". Great efforts are made to "get out the vote". The more people who participate the more legitimacy it gives the bandits in power. A political system dominated by two huge parties.....in turn dominated by a few influential people, who are free to set up whatever process they choose to nominate candidates virtually guarantees an undemocratic result.
Boycott the election
Howard
I think it was RFK Jr who said both parties are corrupt: Republicans are 95% bought and paid for, while Dems are 70% bought and paid for.
This is the logical evolution of political corruptness ala Karl Rove. In the 60's the Republicans assasignated JFK, alot of mess and cover up, In the 70's Nixon had watergate, alot of us v them and tangled web we weave, In the 90's the Repugs found that assasignation is an antiquated practice, they found they need only assasignate someones character thereby damaging their credibility and all of those around them (VP's running for pres) and pretty much the whole party, pretty clever huh?, now it has evolved to the point of why even bother with us v them lets just buy them out and or threaten their lives and families and then everyone will be "us" no more them to worry about.
I would love for Obama to be what he claims. Does anyone remember what its like to get all fired up at a political rally, getting intoxicated on their words, with tears rolling down your cheeks like they're gonna change the world ala JFK? Does anyone remember what it feels like to believe in someone and their ideals and trust them? and trust them? and trust them? I don't....
As this article, another on the same day in Common Dreams and the comments of many to both articles demonstrates, it is easy to hyper-ventilate about democracy and "super-delegates" who, unless I have missed something, are "people" themselves and not just an "apparatchik" of party hacks; most of them are in fact elected, even if only by those who chose them to serve on the DNC. The practice of "ex offico" members on elected bodies is well established in many political forms. You can say, as some have, that the super-delegate system was set up by the DNC to protect the party against voters' "mistakes" like their having voted to nominate a biggest loser, McGovern, in 1972. But again, unless I've missed something, the Party has managed to nominate "losers" in every following election except 92 and 96, as the super-delegates allowed the primary voters to "speak" in every case and their speaking has produced consistent losers. Truth is, I think, primary group voters suppress THEIR OWN preferences among candidates, nominating those they think can win rather than those they would personally like to see win: the very thing that those crafty, calculating super-delegates are castigated for doing. (And yes, as OFFSCREEN points out at 2:08 Feb 18, primary voters---at least in states with cross-over voting---may vote for exactly those candidates they want to lose in the general election). Bottom line: the call for super-delegates to put aside their "deliberative" function at the convention and vote for the candidate approved by "the voters" displays a pitiable mis-apprehension of the sanctity of our flawed "voting" systems. When did "checks and balances" become such a dirty word?
btw the superdelegate thing is bullshit. It wasnt meant to be about what its about now, its about preventing a popularity contest. Think about this, lets say theres a candidate who is absolutely clueless about how to run a country but he or she is as beloved as John Lennon. Well people might get so intoxicated with love they vote for the incompetent yet loved person. See how that might cause a problem. The superdelegates should simply fall in line behind the desire of the voters. The repugs actually have the system right, winner take all. The other part of this superdelegate thing is about maintaining political power and keeping people in their place. any way you look at it its bullshit. They can try and confuse you with all the verbiage but this is what its about in the simplest of terms.
the election should be national. not by state. election day should be a holiday. our elections should counted over a week, results should not be instantaneous. the simplest of paper ballots should be used. Place an X here. There should be no electoral college. There, that should just about do it...
No need to worry. By the time election day rolls around, the Republicans will be so far ahead there won't be any reason to vote. To the delight of my Republican friends, the Democrats have already worked very hard to see that this happens, and things are just getting started. Obama has already been discredited as just another plagiarist without any substantial ideas to offer, and Hillary has amply demonstrated a lack of compassion for the human. McCain will laugh his way into office, and maybe appoint Dubbya to the court.
I suspect that people would be whining less about the super delegate issue if the super delegates had come out on record that they were going to vote for Obama. This looks to me to be more of an issue that the super delegates aren't voting for MY candidate than it is about it being an unfair system.
Personally I don't think that neither Clinton or Obama are worth a crap.
Until we have worthwhile candidates to vote for, we will have more of the same.
I am praying that a strong third party candidate comes out soon.
Are the "cigar delegates" gonna steal the nomination? Are the "non delegates" (Michigan, Florida) gonna come sweeping in at the last minute? Has this all been planned from the start by Mayor Daley?
I'm bored.
Obama is obviously more popular than Hillary. How are they going to get away with having Hillary as the Democratic candidate?
"If voting could ever change anything, it would be illegal, of course." The end.
Paul:
The Disenfranchised Voting Tyranny of SUPER Delegates Protecting Themselves Against The Will of The People Must NOT be allowed in the United States. WE THE PEOPLE of the United States need Democracy For America.
You said the DNC formed the SUPER Delegates, but it was not our current DNC. The DNC that formed the SUPER Delegates was a reaction to Reaganism, which was when the DLC came into power. The corporate REPUBLICAN-Lite DLC, the Democratic Leadership Council, that took over Congress, of which Hillary Clinton is a leader of their corporate REPUBLICAN-Lite DLC Dream Initiative, were the ones who brought about the Primary's SUPER Delegates in the DNC to protect their corporate DLC REPUBLICAN-Lite voting, whenever the corporate REPUBLICAN-Lite DLC 1st came into power in 1984; otherwise I do not believe Hillary Clinton would be all that interested in the SUPER Delegates -- Since Hillary Clinton is the one and only candidate who requested the SUPER Delegate vote, I expect Hillary Clinton is relying on her fellow corporate REPUBLICAN-Lite DLC members to protect her and secure her position.
The GENERAL ELECTION is being controlled through the PRIMARY ELECTION process by allowing only DLC candidates to run in the General Election and eliminating candidates of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION in the Primary Election process, which is the reasoning for having Primary SUPER Delegates represent the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION; as the SUPER Delegates overcast the people's vote after the 70% COMMON POPULATION have already voted for their choices, which is worse than it was in the past when the wealthy slave owners had the 2/3rds BLACK SLAVE VOTE, which gave their MASTERS their representation as SUPER Delegates, but these SUPER Delegates NOW completely 100% disenfranchise the entire 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION in the Primary Election to the point where there is no reason whatsoever for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION to vote in the 1st place, other than to insure for ones self, that one has a right to speak out against voting tyranny, because one did vote; as long as there is still some semblance of freedom of speech.
Of the two DLC candidates that WE THE PEOPLE have been allowed to vote for, I voted for Barack Obama because he is the only one who is NEW, and NEW has a better chance of being better for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION than the OLD that WE THE PEOPLE of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION already know.
When the tanks were rolled against citizens of the United States, against the will of local law enforcement, it was Hillary Clinton's husband that was in power. When NAFTA was started, it was Hillary Clinton's husband that was in power. There will be no help for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION from a Hillary Clinton administration, but a Barack Obama administration does have a ray of hope.
Required reading: "Beltway Bacchanal" by Ken Silverstein in Harper's Magazine, March 2008.
Politicians have been talking about "change" for eons, and once they're in office nothing changes. Hillary is DEFINITELY a war hawk and a Bush supporter. If she's the Democratic candidate, McCain will win.
I'm afraid the election has been already decided, probably by the Decider himself.
If the Dems give it to Clinton the Dems will be torn apart. The Reps are less than united. This will be the opening that Bloomberg is looking for and he will run. I will then vote for Nader/McKinney or McKinney.
If the Dems can see fit to nominate Obama, they have a chance for redemption. Obama is clearly not the perfect candidate, but he does portray a forward looking outlook. He will be pushed by his constituency and will agree to a more anti-corporate agenda ala Edwards (especially since he could use Edwards in his camp.)
I will give the Dems this chance and vote for Obama, but if they give it to Clinton by hook and crook I will never vote for any Democrat (or Republican of course) in any race for the next 40 years.
The question remains: will those who find this back door (smoke filled room dealing on behalf of Hillary) appaling to the point of abandoning the party. Or wil they eat a good dose of humble pie and vote for the candidate provided by party elites? Empowerment begins with YOU!
Also, Paul:
The REPUBLICAN PARTY has NO SUPER DELEGATES because the REPUBLICAN PARTY does not represent the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. But if it will make members of the common population support REPUBLICANS, possibly the REPUBLICAN RIGHT WING PARTY will come up with a super delegate or two to foster their deceit. Telling the political truth to the COMMON POPULATION is not a REPUBLICAN'S strong point, therefore, the REPUBLICAN PARTY will tell you they represent whoever of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION that wants to join the REPUBLICAN PARTY, but they do not. The REPUBLICAN PARTY represents RIGHT WING POWER in the United States ONLY. REPUBLICAN RIGHT WING POWER represents only constituents of big money corporations, capitalists, and the elite. Many members of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION are deceived DODO BIRDS working for free for the REPUBLICANS, while never getting any economic help in any form from the REPUBLICANS, because REPUBLICANS DO NOT REPRESENT the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION. Any economic help from a REPUBLICAN will always be just around the corner for any member of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION. The 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION ARE NOT REPUBLICAN CONSTITUENTS AT ALL, but you will never get a REPUBLICANS to tell you that, because it is not in the REPUBLICAN PARTY'S best political interest. It is in the REPUBLICAN PARTY'S political interest to allow anyone who wants to believe they are a constituent of the REPUBLICAN PARTY to think that they are a constituent, even if they work at the lowest paid job and/or their job is being outsourced.
Too many people buy the equality propaganda. There is no equality. The only way there can be equality is when and if the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION QUIT BEING DUPED and realize that they are the COMMON POPULATION -- working people -- and are not wealthy capitalists in any way; and that if they lose their job they will fall into the ranks of the poor, because the poor are a part of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION. Any member of the REPUBLICAN PARTY who is a member of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION is a part of the political and economic problem; and the economic problem in the United States will begin to be remedied as fast as the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION realize who they are, and start working to retrieve the Democratic Party from the corporate DLC, DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP COUNCIL, a RIGHT WING organization that has overtaken the Democratic Party and is keeping the Democratic Party from representing the constituents of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION by routing representation away from the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, like is happening with the SUPER Delegates.
Since the election has already been decided by the corporatocracy, why continue with these endless, issueless primaries where the sock puppet candidates get up and chant: "I stand for things! Important things. Good things. I'm a leader! I have a vision! Save the middle class! A better life! A new tomorrow! Faith! People! Change! Unity! We can do it! Together!" Enough already.
I think the so-called superdelegates are getting a lot of undeserved bad press. For the most part these are all either present or former elected officials and whatever they do at the convention, they'll have to answer to their constituants. What's undemocratic about that. They're also people who have dedicated a hefty chunk of their professional lives to public service and the Democratic Party. As Party Elders I think their perspective on what would best for the Party and the country is extremely valuable. To put it another way, why should the opinion of average voters, many of whom have never been politically active before in their lives, be valued more than the opinion of these devoted, experienced and in most cases elected public servants? The whole purpose of establishing these Party Elders as special delegates was to act as a counterbalance to the irrational exuberance of voters which at times has lead the party to disaster in the past. For example, if Hillary had the most elected delegates, but these Party Elders thought Obama would actually have a better chance of beating McCain, wouldn't we want them to weigh in? And what about Ted Kennedy and John Kerry who are both superdelegates? Should they have to vote for Hillary because most Massachusetts voters did? I think this deserves more sober reflection than it's been getting.
So THERE, democrats! When you lose again, you can lay the blame right where it belongs and always HAS belonged: not with Ralph, but right at the feet of your own third-rate country styled political "party". They were "born to lose" because they're nothing but republicans in drag.
When you own party steals the nomination in '08, (but loses AGAIN) maybe you guys will get serious for 2012.
Paul:
The REPUBLICANS have control of their party -- Commercial interests and the interests of capital have control of the RIGHT WING, therefore REPUBLICANS do not need any SUPER DELEGATES in the REPUBLICAN PARTY.
The DEMOCRATIC PARTY is fighting the people, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, for control of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, that is why they have originated the use of SUPER DELEGATES. There is no equality in the two parties that are engaged in duopoly against the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.
The REPUBLICAN PARTY functions on a combination of money and leadership of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION against its best interest.
The DEMOCRATIC PARTY worked on majority votes and leadership of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION in its best interest, until the DEMOCRATIC PARTY was taken over by the REPUBLICAN corporate led DLC, who now leads the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION against its best interest and nullifies the votes of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION with SUPER DELEGATES.
Color yourself empowered if your candidate makes it all the way through the primaries before getting knocked out by the superdelegates. My candidate, Kucinich, was knocked out by the lawyers of MSNBC who barred him from the Nevada primary candidates' debate. His campaign collapsed financially a few days later.
The last time I was suckered into voting for a "mainstream" candidate was in 1992 when I drove all the way downtown and stood in line for Bill Clinton and voted for...uh, change? Stupid me! I think this time I won't vote at all. I'm finished with it!
You want change? Wait until the WalMart depots in Mexico deliver an army of a hundred million Chinese light infantry to the U.S., trailed by another hundred million angry Latin American looters.
Smoke 'em if ya got 'em! I was going to write something snarky about the primary process, but I won't.
Unless the superdelegates themselves agree to follow the will of the people, the superdelegate system will play itself out just as the Democratic Party intended. Even if it means advancing one candidate the people don't want over another. This year we're going to have to either choke on it, revolt, or be happy our candidate won the nomination.
The old mantra "Get Involved" rings true here. If you want to change the superdelegate system, getting rid of it won't be up to those *not* involved in the Democratic Party. Existing Democratic party workers climbing up the rungs of the Democratic party will be, if they are so inclined.
What we need is some true 60s activism, but follow through with it this time. The Democratic Party added the superdelegate system after the '72 election when the "wrong" nominee faced Nixon, and well, we know how that turned out. Since then, superdelegates (as well as the electoral college, another anachronism that needs to go) have determined the Democratic nominee, since they think we're idiots who can't be trusted to make the right decision. Nanny state, anyone?
Any elected official that tells you it's a good thing to let him/her decide for you, needs to be swept out of office. That isn't what being democratic is all about. And nothing but death due to old age can be done about former elected officials.
Unless of course we get involved with the system and get rid of it altogether.
To lillulu: "Obama is obviously more popular than Hillary. How are they going to get away with having Hillary as the Democratic candidate?"
Obvious to whom? In fact, Hillary has received more votes than Obama so far.
Democrats have worked very hard to throw elections
that is what they are paid to do by their corporate sponcers.They have shown nothing but utter contempt for their constituents.
Republicans have utter contempt for Americans,but they fight tooth and nail for their core constituents, the filthy rich greedocrats and the helplesly brain dead.