Eagerly awaiting right-wing direct action groups to chain themselves to Wholefood storefronts, Greenpeace vessels, humanitarian organisations' offices, etc.

Then we could go antibalistic and threaten their leaders with showers of rose petals to the backs of their cretinous heads.

Great effort Berkeley!

The right wing with their dominance relationship fetishes would be advised not to go rabid after this, lest they fan the flames of rebellion.

Don't forget what the Peace Sign is: The Footprint of the American Chicken.

Or that the letters in the word hippie stand for happy intelligent people pursuing inner enlightenment.

What is it with REPUBLICANS and CUTS TO SCHOOL LUNCH AND NUTRITION PROGRAMS FOR CHILDREN? Is SENATOR JIM DEMINT saying that if you don't let us send your kids to an unjust war, we will just starve them? What assholes!

sen demint is correct.....he also has the right to be STUPID.....CUT FUNDING FOR EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE WAR IN IRAG

Hooray for the protesters at Berkeley! For all the hours they were chained up there the lying Marine recruiters were unable to conduct "business as usual".

I'll bet the Marines would be evicted in a hurry if protesters would start picketig and blockading some of the underwriters of UC Berkeley's quite extensive endowment funds and enable them to feel the pain of public exposure.

These (the endowment underwriters) are the ones who really run the show vis-a-vis policies and procedures at any university. Medea Benjamin--are you listening? It's time to start democratizing the exp[osure of those who enable military recruitment at universities.

Berkeley... aim the firehose at the BASE of the flame: implement free public transit.

http://frepubtra.blogspot.com

.

Living just 30 miles from Berkeley in a part of the Bay Area that is considered very progressive it doesn't get much better. I work with a counter recruitment organization that visits the local High School twice a month. The school allows us access to bring some balance, as military recruiters converge on the students during lunch on an average of once a week. One week it's the Navy; the next week it's the Army; after that the Marines and so on...
Their tactics are very persuasive.They give them video games, keychains and lanyards. Once they actually brought in a real Nascar and parked it in the court yard! Of course the school is required to allow them access or run the risk of loosing federal funding. It's all part of "No Child Left Behind".
These guys are like predators. Delayed enlistment is huge.
Take a guess how often institutions of higher learning are invited to give their spiel to the students.
It's amazing just how many parents are totally unaware of what's going on at the local High Schools.

College should be free to any qualified student like it is in most European countries (if not all).

We should have a National Health, like in England, and we should have recruiting stations for nurses, doctors and other health workers for that National Health so when kids are young they can see that there are many opportunities and many places where they are wanted and will be able to contribute to society and make a living when they are a little older.

And we should have recruiting stations for the National Transportation and Energy Conversion Project to build mass transit and green energy installations.

Ask a high school student some time if they thing recruiting stations for peaceful positive programs like that would be a good idea and their eyes with absolutely light up at the idea that the adults would start to make sense and show concern and compassion so profoundly.

Military recruitment should be prohibited when a war of aggression is being waged illegally as is happening now.

Funny how those supporting the war aren't so pissed off about Bush and Cheney's deliberate under serving, under treating, underrating, denying of services to those who come back injured in body and/or in mind/soul. If you have any questions the Bush Administration's long record hit a new low when they argued that their requirements to treat are based on budget not based on time after service.

There are still veterans & Vietnamese dying from Agent Orange. The deaths from DU are piling up. War is good business. Invest your children. That way there will be more resources for the chicken hawks of privilege.

You can support Bush's lies or you can support the men and women in uniform.

But you can't support both.

Which side are you on?

US out of Iraq.
Impeach the Bush Administration.

Three cheers for Berkely, and the brave protesters. If anybody's budget should be cut, it's Jim DeMints.

How would he feel if California seceded from the Union? Would he want to send the Marines in?

Hasn't the U.S. military told enough lies to our young impressionable kids? Let the recruiters enlist the Bush twins, and all the children of the war-mongers in Congress that support the coward-in-chief's endless wars. And while they are at it, ask the Congressional Senators and Representatives to sign up and be dispatched to Iraq and Afghanistan as soon as possible in order to relieve some of the troops on consecutive tours.. They haven't done anything in Washington to represent the majority of their constituents, so their absence in D.C. wouldn't be missed. Senator DeMint could be the the first one off the plane and be the first to lead his fellow senators in harm's way, looking for the boogyman. ( And that includes female politicians as well, who want perpetual violence)

Cosmicharlie...I salute you for doing the right thing.

Heavyrunner...Very good suggestions. That is where some of our tax dollars should go: not for death and destruction.

Having a little fun here....but then again....what if the commander-in-chief had to lead his men into battle...as a requirement...hmm.

Senator DeMented needs to go over to Iraq and help the boys out.

heavyrunner, excellent ideas.

Protesters??? Don't those students realize who attacked us on 9-11? If we pull our troops out of Iraq, we are opening the door for the Arabs to come back here and do it again. Don't forget about the price of gasoline too, our economy is already a little shakey.

Those youngsters should be singing God Bless America, and or, the Marine battle hymn. ___ "From the halls of Monti Car-a-low, to the shores of Tipper-air-eee". Those protesters might even be Communists. The Domino Theory could happen right here in America, just like it almost did in South East Asia. Our Vietnam War stopped that cold. The surge in iraq is just now getting up to speed and it's not patriotic to be causing unnecessay protests.

When I was in Marine Corps boot camp, General Smedley Butler was held up to us as the most highly decorated Marine in USMC history. Years later, I read what General Butler said:

"I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

My brother was shot in the leg by the marines while towing targets for military training exercises. We were just glad it wasn't his head.

Tipperary (Irish: Tiobraid Árann) is a town in the south-west of County Tipperary, Republic of Ireland with a population of c.5000.
"From the Halls of Montezuma" refers to the U.S. Invasion of Central Mexico: March 9, 1847.
Your comment insults the Irish Americans who changed sides and fought for the invaded people, the Saint Patric's bergade.

The Principality of Monaco is Monte Carlo.
"To the shores of Tripoli" is a reference to October 1784, when the merchant ship Betsey was seized with its crew by Moroccan corsairs off the Spanish coast, probably itself in violation of international law . In 1786, the United States did strike a treaty with Morocco; the crew of the Betsey was released, and perhaps a third of the US treasury was paid out in ransom, according to some sources.
http://www.mepc.org/journal_vol13/0609_Weinberg.asp
In the early 1980s a friend wrote a screenplay and researched John Paul Jones' fate, but history is constantly being rewritten...

General Westmoreland said the draft keeps the politicians honest, but after the TV Movie "The Day After" and Westmorland was accused of lying, nothing could keep Westmoreland honest. He gutted the CBSs news department.
Push the recruiters hard..no more fake promices.
to the children.
(i was wearing the recruiter's patch in 1971 in the US Army:(

I admit to being somewhat torn on this one. I served in the Marine Corps in the mid-1980's. My sister served in the Army during the late 1970's - early 1980's. My Dad served in the Navy aboard the U.S.S. Intrepid in the mid-1950's, now the Sea, Air and Space Museum in New York Harbor. His Dad was also a Navy man during WWII, serving aboard the transport ship, Harry Lee. Members of my family have served in nearly every conflict this country has suffered, all the way back to the Revolutionary War. I was fortunate enough to serve during a period of relative peace, my inactive reserve status ending just before the first Gulf War, which I protested.

I'm proud of the service my family has given, some of them at the cost of their lives and limbs. But I despise the militaristic policies of George Bush and his ilk. I support those service men and women that have resisted those policies by refusing tours of duty in Iraq. I know how hard it is to try to find balance between one's personal convictions, and the desire to fulfill oaths taken in good faith and support your fellow servicemen. It's a very painful position to be in. While I support the resistors, at the same time I cannot disparage those who feel they must fulfill the duties they committed themselves to.

The situation in Berkeley is a reflection of the frustration so many of us feel with the policies of George Bush, a Commander and Chief of the worst calibur. The pressure on the services to recruit is enormous, the tactics being used in this effort despicable. Military service can be a good thing for some, but to glamorize it or minimize the potential risks involved in that kind of career are akin to the tactics of street gangs. I'm so impressed with the suggestions made by Heavyrunner. While military service might be a good option for some young adults, it is important that there be some balance and that they be provided with other options that do not entail a risk of life and limb.

Much like Vietnam, the ugly and twisted nature of this conflict has the potential of turning otherwise rationale and reasonable service people into thugs with heavy weapons. We've seen it happen all over Iraq, and we see the results of this mental abuse in the abhorrant behavior of returning veterans. High school students are too young to fully appreciate the nature of military service or the ramifications of what they may be asked to do in fulfillment of that oath. Yet I am concerned that the distain felt for George Bush and this war not be heaped unfairly on the men and women that are serving in the military. Many of them feel obligated to complete the service they enlisted in and follow the lawful orders they are given (hopefully resisting the unlawful ones, as any good serviceman would). I don't want to do to these vets what was done to so many veterans of Vietnam.

Way to go Berkeley! As usual, you lead the way and are an inspiration for the rest of the country.

It will be interesting to see what kind of blow-back you get from the moral degenerates in the Bush Administration. Certainly they, and their FOX apologists, will accuse you of betraying the troops and aiding the enemy. Never will they admit that they are cynical butchers sending innocent working class kids off to kill and be killed.
Can there be a person left in America that honestly thinks Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Bremmer give one shit about the lives of working class kids, or brown skinned kids?

At least there are some people with guts. Watada is the best example but this will help a little. However, these 3 are very much an exception. These 3 little guys in a progressive zone of the country is the whole effort? Isn't this pathetic? This country loves war, there is no other explanation for the pathetic lack of protesting.

It should be crystal clear to most people! These right wing fanatic's don't believe in a thing this country has always stood for! They spend their time allowing a man to change everything we have always stood. To rip the Constitution into sheds, hijack democracy and become an aggressor nation. And they don't utter one word of opposition. They should be told every day how 'unAmerican' and unpatriotic they are. I don't believe a one of them cares what happens to this great nation. If they are so 'hot to trot' for Bush's war, they need to get off their lard asses, enlist go over there to get their asses shot off! It would be a fitting end to all these fascists who love war!

I lived through the Viet Nam War and all the college protesters. Nightly it was a barrage of violence on the news. Until now, I never understood them. But, I understand them fully now. How courageous they really were. What the government was doing was wrong then and still is. I didn't have an opinion either way in those days. I was a young housewife trying to raise two children while my husband worked his ass off to feed us. But, I have gained a new respect for those kids. I understand where they were coming from today. I hate the Iraq and Afghan wars as much as they did the Viet Nam War. Our government has gotten into the business of 'Regime Change'! We are the only ones who need a 'Regime Change'!

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

The city of Berkeley is a true profile in courage. I give them props for standing up to these US military thug recruiters who are trying to sell their war of genocide against the Middle East and also for standing by medical marijuana patients against the Federal thugocracy. Take a lesson American sheeple!

In the spring of 1967, I was an infantry squad leader in Vietnam. Before boarding the Huey helicopters to make an air assault on another 'search and destroy operation', our company stood in formation listening to General Westmoreland's pep talk about how well the 'war' was going. He said (in his own words) the war would probably be over in about six more months or so. He also told us how well the ARVN (Army of South Vietnam) were doing. When he said that, we began looking at each other, nodding our heads in disbelief, having run joint operations with them.

So much for the draft, Westmoreland, McNamara, and the rest of the gangsters of that era. The real heros of that adventure in American Imperialism were the college kids at Berkeley and at other colleges and universities as well who said ' HELL NO, WE WON'T GO! "

Lt. Ehren Watada is the first American military officer hero of the 21st Century.

greatbear215..." dissent is the highest form of patriotism. " How true! That is why I took the title of George Seldes book, 'NEVER TIRE OF PROTESTING' and made it my motto. (it was published in 1968)

Hi ~LA Quaker~ We had a pet parrot, it was an Australian Rary named Jake. Jake talked all of the time, even in his sleep, he never shut up. Jake got so big and fat from eating graham crackers and cheeze that he couldn't fly, he weighed 47 pounds. One spring day we were at the Grand Canyon and Jake said if we would toss him over the side, he'd get up enugh airspeed to fly again. It made sense to me, so I tossed him over. Well, Jake was wrong as usual and he went down like an iron brick. The last thing we heard from Jake, he was singing out ("It's a long long way to tip a rary"). All of the Irish people standing there watching and listening were insulted.

If I drank I'd lift a glass of Irish Whiskey to ya…

Treefrog February 2nd, 2008 8:20 pm

"What is it with REPUBLICANS and CUTS TO SCHOOL LUNCH AND NUTRITION PROGRAMS FOR CHILDREN? Is SENATOR JIM DEMINT saying that if you don't let us send your kids to an unjust war, we will just starve them? What assholes!"

You got it in one. Just like we do to people everywhere we go on the planet: Obey or we starve you to death. Oh yeah, and its just like what the Isreali government is doing to the Palestinians. Same thing.

After things get ugly, they will use starvation here to control dissent. This is the face of America most whites never see. The face of a country that perpetrated genocide and got away with it. What do you think those eyes looked like when they were skinning humans alive and listening to their screams? Do you think they looked like the eyes of self-justified Repugs beating bibles, and screaming for Death? "God's WILL!!!. It's GOD'S WILL!!!" It's our history as well. A trifle scarey being on the wrong end of Master's saber, but we've been there before.

When we know who the enemy is and we can't be bought off, MASTER ALWAYS LOSES.

Peace.

A couple of things that might be tried:

1. Raise the minimum age to serve in the military to 21. Then no more recruitment of high school kids who figure they have no choice. Less chance of gulling a kid into joining.
On the up side, recruits at 21 would be making a choice based on more experience of life; they would be better recruits from the get go.

2. Keep recruiting age where it is, but regulate that only service personnel over 21 will serve outside of the United States.
Then, recent high schoolers are not sent out as fodder, or as trigger happy,scared, often ignorant of the surroundings young soldiers.
Those who serve abroad would be older, more experienced personnel, more likely to do what the gvt tells the people the military is doing.

3. ( I offer this as a Sunday silly idea) Keep all military inside USA, used only in defence of the United States proper. Place all military under a Secretary of DEFENCE.

grumpyoldlady -

I enjoyed reading your excellent post, and found myself feeling a little guilty for my many anti-military diatribes on this site. I don't intend to moderate them, but your intelligent, balanced and heartfelt piece compels me to respond in kind.

I'm aware that many of you honor military virtues of bravery and loyalty, and one has to admire that, even if in the context of actual battle conditions, particularly the moral ambiguity of combating insurgencies in the homelands of other people, these are inconsistent with other virtues such as intelligence and compassion and charity. My anti-military posture, like that of many others on this blog, is a response to this unhappy time in our history when soldiers are being used to expand global capitalism and not to defend our homeland from any serious enemy. When swarms of Chinese arrive in California I will probably dig up a helmet and a gun and go fight them. But my brief, peacetime stint in the military was hardly an inspiration to me. The seamy experience of being bottled up on a destroyer escort with 200-odd testosterone-addled, belligerent, frighteningly ignorant, chronically immature young men is one I departed in 1960 without a single regret or desire to revisit. (Our executive officer was a Lieutenant Commander named Roy Hoffman, today one of the founders of Swiftboat Veterans, a man so devoted to freedom that he once pursued a school of fish nearly to the arctic circle because it refused to identify itself.)

I have not personally seen the pretty or admirable side of military culture, although you who have chosen a career in it no doubt find much to admire. I should acknowledge that it is quite simple for me to disparage the profession of soldiery as it appears to us today, and to cheer those who descend upon recruiting stations to bring a needed counterpoint to the arguments and frequent lies made to our children by professional pitch men. But I have never found myself at home in a military milieu, or felt the pride and common purpose that many of you clearly have. So I respect and applaud your moral dilemma, the sheer fact that you acknowledge and struggle with the conflict between the demands of duty and those of humanity, and I confess that because I have never been in your shoes I can enjoy a philosophical perspective that is less difficult and trying than that of soldiers who are also thinking human beings.

It is important, even as we become respectful of one another, that we remain ourselves. I have the luxury to study the question of what cultural and psychological mechanisms have produced in our species the need to maintain enemies at all, and to apply myself to shedding some small light upon the dark imps that make us so addicted to conquest and mayhem and death. A soldier would be crippled by such meditations, and would be better off to spend his time cleaning his rifle. There is probably a need in today's damaged world for the application of unreflective, unambiguous military force. There is also a need to imagine and work for a world in which such insane things as wars and the training of teen agers to kill people cease to exist.

"Jake talked all of the time, even in his sleep, he never shut up."

Sounds a lot like his master !! Sorry KEM couldnt resist ...

We live a few blocks away from this same cursed recruiting station and have always looked upon it with disgust. However what irks me even more is the traditional biased, hypocritical, patronizing, morally apathetic reporting by the San Francisco Chronicle whihc even on its best day gives more coverage to Dianne Feinsteins earrings than anything of importance. The Chrons reporting of this particular incident borders on finger-wagging and just-another-berzerkeley-incident. The homeless guys in SF use the Chron for an important daily ritual (guess?) whihc I think is apt.

johnwyclif ~ I really like your ideas. It totally makes sense. However the government and military know that at 18 years old; just getting out of high school, these young people are SO ready to get out on their own. To prove to themselves and the world that they are suddenly adults and can make up their own minds - make their own decisions. They move through life with a gung-ho attitude. I remember what it was like at 18. Nobody could tell me anything. I knew it all. This is just what the military wants. All the military needs to do is impress upon them at an early age that it's the manly thing to do. That there is an enemy to fight - that they're fighting for our freedom and liberty. They're so impressionable - so naive. They're perfect!

...and your excellent post as well, Voxclamantis
Thanks

Now, honestly, who deserves a Nobel peace prize more than Lt. Watada?

Absolutely NOBODY!!

grumpyoldlady:
"Yet I am concerned that the distain felt for George Bush and this war not be heaped unfairly on the men and women that are serving in the military. Many of them feel obligated to complete the service they enlisted in and follow the lawful orders they are given (hopefully resisting the unlawful ones, as any good serviceman would)."

The Death Squads of brutal Central American 'democracies' are also following orders. The Germans of WWII were following orders. The Japanese raping Nanking were following orders.

Don't give me this crap about 'following orders'. You join a Gang dedicated to controlling other people by force, you get no sympathy from me.
"Lawful orders" what a joke. The invasion of Iraq was illegal, so all subsequent 'orders' are illegal. The invasion of Panama and Grenada by Bush the First Criminal were illegal as well, according to International Law the U.S. was instrumental in drafting after WWII. You can't just make shit up to invade countries that you don't like the leadership of - *any* country can do that, and then it is Jungle Law. The U.S. *likes* Jungle Law right now, since we are the Lion. But in 20 years, China will be the strongest country, and then aging idiot Americans will be whining about International Law and how things are 'not fair'. You reap what you sow.

'Serve my country' - yeah, right. How did the murder of Central American villagers serve me in the 1980's ? Oh, right - 'communists', they're gonna get my Momma...

Now, it's 'terrorists' - *yawn*.
I fear a highway accident much more than any pissed off Third World 'terrorist'. Stop supporting the dictators (oh right, 'King' or 'Emir'...) that piss them off, and they will stop 'hating our freedom'.

Yeah ~Gyptian~,that was Jakes problem, trying to out talk me, he never did, I kissed the Blarney stone. Gotta go get a pint for ~Amos.~

Seriously, military recruiters should not be allowed to recuit in schools. The recruiters are trained at the very best salesmanship academy in the entire world and many young people doen't stand a chance when hearing only the good attributes of the service. The military can send out flyers, advertise in newspapers, magazines, on TV and have a booth at annual job fairs, just like everyone else.

lizard...I'll second that!

Thad Stone...strong points. For eighty years or so, anybody who was liberal or believed in human progress was a "communist" or fellow traveler. Now, anybody against fascism, imperialism, and totalitarianism is a terrorist. And the public still falls for the con game. Especially with a 'Christian' slant to it.

This is as true today as it was in 1946. Probably more true considering the lock the government has on the media.
---------------------------------------
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same for any country."
Herman Goering to Gustave Gilbert at Nuremberg, 18 April, 1946
-----------------------------------------
As Goebbels said, "Tell a big enough lie and repeat it often enough and it becomes the truth." Ain't it da truth.

This article appeared on the website Gathering of Eagles (http://gatheringofeagles.org/) today, followed by a small string of comments consisting of Semper Fi's, a limited number of derisive liberal synonyms (moonbats), some phonetic equivalents for HooAh! and a lot of really bad spelling.

While touring their site I noticed that their forum topics were quite limited, with few comments and little substance. There was quite a large section of jokes about sex, killing and bad things happening to liberals and black people. They are serious mainly about insults to veterans and the defiling of war memorials. Their mission statement specifically excludes from Eaglitude any kind of pacifism, and refuses acceptance of any kind of support for soldiers that does not include support for the current war.

I wanted to register and leave them a note, but something told me there were likely some dangerous people there who might appear at my door some night with lampblack camouflage and serrated knives, so I decided to wait. I did wonder, however, why no liberal ever posts to a right wing blog, and why, except for an occasional hit and run, they never post here. It is easy to do, and takes your argument out of the choir and straight to the minds (sic) that need changing. I couldn't help but envision how much richer and more interesting their blog would be if some progressives were to provide them with something to think about (or stomp on), since they have nothing to do right now but HooAh! among themselves. It's a bit like Bush refusing to dialog with Abedinejad. The communication tools are there, but nobody is interested in it. Guess that is what polarization is all about. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Vox Clamantis: The problem with going into these blogs is that you have noone to talk to. When they respond, they're ignorance is so profound that you realize you have to reeducate them, but the task is immense. There is simply too much to correct because it is all wrong and twisted. It is a labor of mercy and they don't inspire much of that. If it were possible to actually get through it might be worth it, but otherwise the best you can hope for is to maybe catch one and work away on that one and then maybe...

My uncle was apart of the Batan Death March and spent years in a Japanese prison camp after Mac Aurthor didn't make it back with re-inforcements. He used maggots to control the infection in his legs(scares are pretty visable) and he would mention that being given a potato kept him from starving to death. When he returned as one of the few survivors, he was given the keys to the city and became a millionaire. His entire life in analysis for an alcoholism he couldn't shake. Don't tell him your having a bad day sympathy is just something he doesn't have. His brother, my dad went into the service at 16 (he lied) was in Pearl Harbor and spent time in the south pacific and later worked on President Truman's yaught (sp), my mom a veteran before there was a navy for women, it was a voluntary emergency serice to our nation (she joined after her high school sweatheart was shot down over France), me I was born in a naval hospital and that where it ends. I think I've learned a great deal coming from a military family that goes way back to our nations founding. I am one of the few survivors as we fill up the national cemetaries. So it is with a great sincerity that I say, you have a right and a duty to object an injustice. Until you sign a total unequivical oath not to question your government or commander in chief but follow orders. If you look at who is dying in Iraq a great many are less than 22 years old. While I mourn the loss of these young people that will never have a chance at life. I also mourn for the survivors that will live a life of regret for a decision they made at 18 years old or become disaffected that rationize why they become killers.

libertas fugit; Goering's words are as true today as when he said them and even before. Jingoism is jingoism. Period!

lizard; I agree with what you told Voxclamantis. Try calling a reactionary show and they cut you off or just ridicule you. When friends and relatives 'part company' over political issues, blogging on a rightwing reactionary site is for me a waste of time. It's bad enough trying to have a debate without being called various names by the 'other side.'

Treefrog; Comparing World War Two to the American invasion of Iraq is quite different. The Japanese were very brutal and the Germans a little better but not much. That was a war to save 'civilization' ( as many injustices as there are ) from a barbaric attempt at world domination. Our nation has become what my father and uncles and your father and uncles fought against. This 'generational' honor among family members who served in the military has got to be questioned. If we are ever to have world peace, the glorification of militarism has to fade away and the 'glorification' of peace and gentleness, and kindness to others should be embraced. These kinds of individuals will be the new heros, not somebody that kills, maims, tortures, or rapes.

Peace and Harmony all over the world.

so damn tired of this crap. but i guess thats this road. takes a while.
very uplifting to hear others disgust about this.
been a pascifist since age 7.
wrote consciensus objector papers during the gulf war '91 at 25.
41 now and numbed out from 5 years (almost) of this horrific waste. wondering who will flip me off next for my "war is not the answer" bumper sticker. wanting to paint the inside of a recruiting station pink just to freak out those manly men. war is outmoded, archaic, base thinking, and obviously those words wont matter to most marines until they have felt soul ripping pain of watching someone they care about DIE. i wonder how many military personnel would be against this war if they could poll them anonymously. just a curiosity.

Heres hoping that thousands and thousands will hear about berkeleys stand and repeat this in dozens and dozens of cities across the country. ENOUGH. the left is getting its teeth right now and i myself am no longer going to be apologetic about being anti war AND BEING for lowering the militarys budget to something much less horrific.
I'm saying we step things up. more improv theater in your face, more frequent happenings, more of the same but also no pulled punches (yes a pascifist said that).
really thankful for the chorus of revolt im hearing here.
THANK YOU. YOU ARE GIVING THIS TIRED PEACE LOVER NEW WINGS.
JOHNV

Just a note Kem. There are no such things as Australian Rary birds.

I know, when our Jake bit the dust, like the DODO bird, the Rary parrot became extinct. We still have Dodos however, they just aren't birds.

brilliant...if there were no military recruiting stations, all war would end...this is like that eternally dumb expression of the upper middle class peaceniks back in the sixties: "what if they had a war and nobody came"...as though war happens because everyone decides to show up in battle gear...aawww...

makes you wanna sing a chorus of kumbaya, while the world goes up in flames because such people are helpless to stop their out of control empire, due to their wimpy notions of peace beginning at their keyboards or health food stores...

Bush does what he wants to and only changes the constitution to suit himself.
I see no big deal here.

frankscott; First question. What was wrong with the upper middle class peaceniks in the 60's? Because they saw no reason to risk life and limb for an unnecessary war of agression against a weaker nation determined to control their own destiny? What if the 58,000 or so that died, plus the ones who were maimed or wounded, didn't show up when the perpetual war-mongers of both mainstream political started the war?

You think "five-time" deferrment Cheney ( who had better things to do ) or the coward-in-chief would have gone in their stead?

"The world going up in flames" as you say is largely due to U.S. foreign policy. It takes courage to do the right thing. The real wimps are the 'willfully ignorant' masses who fail to think for themselves and succumb to jingoism. The 'smart money' stay far from harm's way.

Stay at the keyboard Frank, and start shopping at the health food store. Reading articles and comments on Common Dreams will sharpen your knowledge of current events and the unprocessed natural foods will fortify your glands and organs and help you to think more clearly. Peace and Harmony to you.

Well said Peaceman!

Treefrog,

Thank you! I was rushing before and left out the word"parties" after "political" in the first paragraph.

Kem,

Does that mean that by throwing Jake over the Grand Canyon you contributed to the extinction of a species? I'm very disappointed.

By the way Frank; thank you for elevating me to upper middle class. I had thought I was only middle class.