Sad, but I suppose it takes a lot to get people to realize that the notion of identity is itself the problem.

How often have we heard "We are better than Them?" How often have we heard Americans like "winner?." How often do people accept the nonsensical dream that "We can become one of the few rich and powerful?" All these are artificial identities people create to hide inequities, ignorance and resist any call for beneficial action.

The solution lies not in a "new, purified, identity" rather in the destruction of unneccessary ones. It matters not whether an idea is Western or Eastern or whatever. It only matters that the idea enhances our capacity for beneficial action.

Every society in history has (had) its privileged few, and its forgotten. Every society has practised discrimination against "outsiders" at some point. Every society has (had) its plutocrats and oligarchs.

The problem lies in the human penchant for establishing a hierarchy of beings or classes of beings (verifiable or alleged). The solution lies in jettisoning this mode of thinking.

For the human civilization to progress it must destroy its current grounding in a "hierarchy of beings" and move towards a "hierarchy of actions and values." The nonsensical and regressive myth of "good people vs. evil people" must give way to the better paradigm of "beneficial vs. harmful actions (and values)."

I am moved by Hegerama's plea for "something to write to encourage me." Re earlier comment about significance of Minoan Crete, I recommend reading Riane Eisler's classic The Chalice and the Blade for a sense of transcendent hope. For an analysis of what's gone wrong with America, why this happened, what can be done about, and how you can prevent it from happening again, read Bankrolling Evolution: A Scientific Guide to Global Recovery from the Disaster of the Bush Years, first of six books for a revolutionary Darwin Anniversary Cycle by evolutionary action scientist David Loye. For a song to give you hope, listen to the Raffi Renaissance, i.e., new songs children's troubadour Raffi is generating for the Beluga Grads: Salam Sholom, Tomorrow's Children, Cool It, wonderful stuff!

I'd like to be optimistic, but I just don't feel it at this time.

Lizard's comments above may be true, and nonetheless distressing. "Americans believe we can win in Iraq." She/He alludes to the assertion of American dominance; but what does "win" even mean? How will such Americans know when we have won? Also - American dominance? What dominance? I fear we have already lost no matter what we do now, no matter how soon. I have co-workers who believe that we must be in Iraq to "stop Islamo-fascism." I could laugh hard. This is definitely our last war as the US of A "as we know it", even if we withdraw this minute, because we were out of funds long ago - all the money for the war has been borrowed from other nations who are becoming, in effect, our "owners" and we, their "slaves". If our nation commits the insanity of going into Iran, or anywhere else, we will simply be making our fall harder when it finally comes. Our economic dominance in the world is ending. Our dominance as viewed through other lenses also will soon end, i.e. humankind, led by us, has tried the environment to the point of near collapse and still hasn't done a whole lot that effectively reverses the damage. Lower species collapse will eventually swallow us too. Plus, if we remain among the few nations who do not demonstrate a willingness to curb our environment-destroying ways, the ones who are trying will blame the collapse on us. While all this is going on, we'll have the end result of our economic collapse and our "no-tax" policies to contend with - no money for infrastructure maintenance, roads, bridges, schools, housing, the needy, needier, and neediest; no money for the veterans of our wars, no money for anything that really matters in life. Our country's interior itself will literally collapse physically, and only the richest will have anything; maybe not even them.

Wow, I AM pessimistic. Anyway, if anyone has something to write to encourage me, I'll try to check back.

deepa et. al.

Much as one is tempted to blame the problems on "Western" civilization, the real problem is more to do with "civilization" than "western". Humans have learned to thrive by exploitation; exploitation of every other living species and of the Earth itself. Once this exploitation is tolerated and justified, it is only natural that it rises up to include other humans too. "Us" vs. "Them" is a convenient ruse to continue and promote this exploitation ("western" could be "us" or "them").

My fellow republicans,
The US is, without contest, the richest and technologically most developed country in the world. This is too much of a temptation for any human being. Power corrupts and huge and barely limited power corrupts in the same ways; witness Bush and its potential successor. Imperialistic policies follow, first abroad such as in indonesia, guatemala, chile, irak and elswhere. Then, as some people realize the craziness and inconsistencies of these policies, the empire begins to crack down on its citizens at home, witness illegal surveillance and abuse of presidential power. Thus, extreme unchallenged size is the most serious enemy of a democracy. This won't change regardless of who is elected president. The only salvation for the US democracy is breaking up the country, into several rich, smaller, hopefully decent countries. Whoever does not consider this a possible, though maybe long term, solution is adicted to the idea of a strong and dominant republic and, by definition, a republican. This makes most Americans republicans at heart, regardless of their stated political affiliation!!!

I try to find things that give me hope. Check this out www.rmi.org Watch some of the videos. Lovins has great ideas. Peace

Wanted: someone, anyone...who could teach Washington what democracy is all about. Of course, if Senators and Congressman weren't so busy spending time in the back pockets of special interest groups, there would be a chance.

"If I was on that committee I would Waterboard Mukasey at the hearing and then ask him if it was!" Evidently you think it is - as do I. Therefore I would never do it to anyone. You, on the other hand, would be no better than Mukasey. Please can we drop these tough man attitudes which only boost the impulses which turn people to the right, and start applying thought to our arguments.

Stephen V. Riley,
Earth Charter gooooooood...

Winnetou,
Cuba beacon of hope....
Socialism gooood....

Americans don't want to leave Iraq if they can win. They now believe they can win. The people want to win and are looking for a winner. Only a few disagree with the principle of attacking nations to assert American dominance. This is a warrior nation that approaches war as if it were a game. The purpose of games is to win. America will continue to attack the world, it's the American thing to do.

One of the greatest genocides in mordern history, and it isnt even mentioned in schools when we are discussing modern genocide.
And I completly agree with Maine-ah, waterboard his and see if waterboarding is torture

deepa :"It is the European and American IDEA of western civiliztion that has cultivated a perception of "others" as sub-human beings. Because when a set of perpetrators faces its victims, in order to go about its business of wanton killing, it must first sever any human connection with it. It must see its victims as sub-human, as parasites whose eradication would be a service to society.'

So very true . This sub humanizing of the 'others' is the common thread that runs through Western Civilization -right from the Roman Empire -The Crusades - The British Empire-Nazi Germany -Fascist Italy - Apartheid South Africa - all the way to the neo -colonial Western "Empire' of today.

To be fair to them though - how can you expect the average Westerner , conditioned by centuries of lording it over the 'rest of the world' , not to think of himself (or herself) as being inherently superior to the 'rest'.

And as long as this particular mindset remains deep rooted and unextirpated in the Western psyche, you'll have the Madeleine Albrights of this world dismissing the 'rest' as mere 'collateral damage ' . To be trampled upon and ridden roughshod over on the way to the attainment of their Civilizational Objectives ( whatever they might be).

I like Jaded Pole's comment. Indeed, South America is nowadays for many countries across the world a beacon of hope. They have first-hand experience with U.S. terrorism but they seem to get out of that now and develop true democracies. It's the South Americans who keep the flame of Democracy alive.

What is being done in our name is our fault until we figure out a way to stop it.
http://www.ryanhartman.wordpress.com

Western Civilization: An Idea Whose Time Has Come --- to the end of Empire.

The corporatist Empire hiding behind this facade of supposed political democracy and free speech media in 'Vichy America' is hiding many things from American citizens --- with the help of corporatist media cover-ups and distractive propaganda.

The corporatist Empire is hiding the FACT that American levels of inequality are 'off-the-charts' compared with any other developed country --- let alone any other 'democracy'. But hiding this fact does not make it go away (as the CIA knows) --- it still builds to 'blow-back' against the Empire.

The corporatist Empire is hiding the FACT that corporate financial 'negative externalities' in the form of 'debt bombs' (like CDOs and SIVs) are being moved from their private corporate investment bank hiding places into the public liability Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae vaults to explode on us. But that deceit does not keep the public 'blow-back' from building up and ultimately exploding when GD II (Great Depression Two) comes to the American people.

The corporatist Empire is hiding Sibel Edmonds' accidental discovery of nuclear weapons proliferation treason which could lead to distracting and fearful third-world nuclear threats and manufactured fear among Americans. But that will not keep 'blow-back' and domestic 'civil unrest' from occurring when the American public learns Edmonds' truth.

The corporatist Empire is hiding its utter contempt for democracy and 'public interest' behind the pompous talk and smiles of most Washington politicians (of both phony parties). But this will not hide much longer the truth that Al Gore exposed in "Assault on Reason", when he tells the American public outright that this "radical-right corporate faction (empire) has contempt for the very concept of any 'public interest' even existing."

The corporatist Empire's jig is up, and 'blow-back' is coming soon.

This entry is not about the past but about the future. Western Civilization did not begin in Sumer, or Athens, or Jerusalem, or Rome. Its longest, most continuously peaceful and internationally-developing period was Minoan Crete circa 4000-1400 BCE. Since the first "Homeric heroes" took Crete down we have been learning (right up through "National Geographic") that it never existed; "had to go"; "wasn't strong enough to survive"; any lie to get rid of the towering shadow of its achievement over those of a vicious species of dwarves (in Nietzsche's phrase) called patriarchs. You don't have to dream up a utopia to change things fundamentally. First try remembering how the first of "us" got it right most of the time (not with a utopia but with a sense of HUMAN FAMILY tying the world together); then discover the irrational reasons ("manhood," war, profit, power) why it was erased for us. The process results in DEMONSTRABLE ANCHORS for any kind of optimism we might care to try for in the midst of this catastrophic start of the new millennium---which I'll always remember doomed in the psychotic grin of GW Bush right after 9/11. "This is the first war of the new millennium!" he said excitedly. "It's what I'm all about, and nothing else." He sure has been right about that! http://ancientgreece-earlyamerica.com

ClassAct:

But you seem to find the West particularly negligent in its philosophical illiteracy. Re-read Confucius (Mencius is next on my list, I'm currently reading Linji). Confucian ideals were the stuff of the usual lip-service (at best) by subsequent centuries of despots and emperors. It makes no sense to slam Western civilization as unique in its failure to live up to the ideals of its greatest thinkers, the boorish nature of the common people, the failure of its sages current and past, to have any influence whatsoever in politics, etc.

And I disagree with the Imperial Democrat as well. I find Western tyranny as reprehensible as any other. I need to clarify that I'm not defending our mistakes, but if we wish to criticize them we cannot single ourselves out as the sole source of all evil. I should further clarify the "our" part. My ancestors were peasants. I have nothing but contempt for the civilization that rendered my ancestors penniless & propertyless to the point of leaving.

Western Civilization.....Well, It's a nice idea I suppose....Have yet to see it is all.

A good analogy with Pol Pot above, but another obvious compare and contrast is with the US attitudes to its own dictators like Suharto and Pinochet, who were doing the business approved by America of wiping out everyone on the left (church leaders, trade unionists, intellectuals, political groups, and, yes, communists), and its pretend attitude to Hussein who killed far fewer of his own people than Suharto, but was doing so from the socialist side of politics (http://www.blognow.com.au/mrpickwick/33340/Left_Right_Left_Right.html).

Did I say anything about self-loathing? I only called for literacy. If a person in the West has read the Analects, hooray! If someone in the West has read the Sutras, great! History is not fully exemplified only in the West … there are meaningful messages and metaphors from elsewhere, but the public is not conversant in them. Methinks the white males protest too much!

The age of gold, silver, brass and now rust.
Mankind has fallen again. Christian lemmings all.
We're back to the chaos of the Battling Giants.

Rebel Farmer: Excellent point: Until we recognize that we are all part of one civilization...........

This is what the Earth Charter is all about.

Mukasey's stupid equivocating on his friggin nuanced position of 'ambiguity' on torture so as to supposedly protect troops of the military Empire, of which he is a small legal cog or tool, is pure slime --- but it is the type of slime that one expects from everyone serving Empire.

The problem is not this disgusting and evasive little shit, Mukasey, but Empire --- and what Empire does to anyone who does not have the character and courage to fight it to the death.

A good article that unfortunately unleashes, yet again, the usual 'hate western civilization' crowd. Too many of us on the left strive for perfection, hence the lament that while the Republicans would keep us in Iraq forever and a day, none of the Democrats are calling for an immediate withdrawal. As though those two positions were somehow even remotely equal! Give me a break Amy and others, either Democrat would begin the process of getting us out as fast as she/he felt reasonable. But go ahead, vote for Ralph again, and get the same result as last time.

As to Western Civilization, no question about it, it isn't now nor has it ever been perfect. The glories of Greece and Rome were mixed with a good share of violence and slavery. The Renaissance had religious intolerance. Modern democracies are not always perfect reflections of the will of the people, and that will can be easily shaped by evil political forces like those in the White House and the VP residence today, or by corporate forces that resist needed reforms and environmental change (can't get rid of those SUVs that give us our huge profits). But to which civilization would you have us go to find that perfection? Any historian (and that is my profession) will tell you that all civilizations throughout human history have exhibited intolerance, violence, fanatical religious beliefs, sexism and racism, and any number of other attributes that some of our posts and articles on this site have lamented so strongly when they are known to be features of western civilization.

No, the solution is not to wallow in self-hate, or to disgustingly call for the elimination of all white folks, or for the exchange of our values for someone else's supposedly more perfect values. The solution is to work hard to move us ever more in the right direction; to recognize that while we are based on some very good values we do not always live up to them. To recognize that it will not always be possible to have perfect politicians, but to see that we elect the very best we can this time, and work to elect even better ones next time.

That is the best call to action for the left, and it is one that I hope we answer. If not, we will exchange the smirk of our current Decider for that of the man who wants us to stay in Iraq for 100 years.

The choice should be obvious.

Thanks Amy. I'm sure glad that you survived your incounter in Indonesia years ago.

deepa: Though your post was quite long, it was very informative. It is Western Civilization itself that is the evil that causes such genocide. It is just another name for empire. One empire drops by the wayside, and another rises. So it has always been.

Until we recognize that we all part of one civilization, we are doomed. Until we accept that all humans are bound together as one, we will parrish. Until we respect all life and the entire planet, we as a species will disappear.

There is nothing civilized about western civilization.

Article: "When asked what he thought of Western civilization, Gandhi responded, 'I think it would be a good idea.' "

That reminds of what Chairman Mao reportedly said, when asked what he thought of the French Revolution.

He said, "I'll tell you when its over".

A lot of great ideas here today---Thanks, everybody.

kivals,

I've noted that it sweeps other issues under the rug as well:

* Hides the fact that the first slaves of the West may have been western serfs, perhaps for a thousand years. Forced to give up their religions, forced into perpetual landless servitude.
* Hides the fact that white males have been conscripted to fight an endless chain of wars over the centuries instigated by other white males. Or work in dangerous factory conditions, company towns, mines, putting up with an intense amount of shit from other white males.

So it's important, as with Hitler and his Jews, to find (or manufacture) some scapegoat external to a fundamentally unfair economic caste system. Based not so much on race (Clarence Thomas, Condie Rice), sex (Margaret Thatcher, Catherine the Great, etc.) or on nationality. But on raw dynamics of power and who controls the biggest army.

The Senate Justice Committee needs to waterboard US Attorney General Michael Mukasey just to get a streight answer.

Kambon said it best. The only nigger on this planet is the white man and white women. Everyone else is an imitation falling to the hands of the temptations of the devil race. And the only solution to the problem is how do we exterminate them off the face of the planet if nature doesn't do it first.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hyMsKKGgIYg

Paul Bramscher,

You wrote: "I don't know where this self-loathing meme comes from, but let's be a little more realistic, folks."

I can just speculate, but it seems likely that the corporate elites tolerate and even promote the hostility towards Western civilization in general and towards white males in particular, as white males are assigned responsibility for all the crimes of Western civilization, because such elites find such general and ill-defined hostility much less threatening to their enterprise than hostility towards capitalism or corporatism, which might occur with further analysis. And in the US the race and gender identity politics that leads to vilification of white males also seems to find significant support among corporate elites for similar reasons.

Distraction and division are often useful tools for parasites, pillagers, and plunderers.

Alberto Gonzales is alive and well in the body of Michael Mukasey. Did the legislature think it would be any different when they confirmed him?

Waterboard the Hand

Who would have thought it really possible
Except Adam in his wildest dreams
That the smith of apples has turned the world it seams,
for the invisible hand is truly ruling all the land.

No, It ain't the groper or the demon roper,
It's just a hand that's ruling all the land.

The hand of markets,
The hand of marks
Is the hand that ruling all the land.

Invisible except to greed,
Invisible except to need,
a non-entity indeed.
Adam's hand is truly ruling all the land.

Puppet leaders revel in the magic of the hand
And boast it raises all the boats.
While inequity between us marks
gives the hand to haves who favor status

While inequity between us marks
gives the hand to haves who favor status quo.

The hand of markets,
The hand of marks
Is the hand that ruling all the land.

It's the hand that swell's the MIC
It's the hand that sells our spaceship home.
For Gaia is worth more dead than it is alive.

The hand of markets,
The hand of marks
Is the hand that ruling all the land.

The IDEA of western civilization is clearly expressed by the French advocate of colonialism Jules Harmand: "It is necessary, then, to accept as a principle and point of departure the fact that there is a hierarchy of races and civilizations, and that we belong to the superior race and civilization, still recognizing that, while superiority confers rights, it imposes strict obligations in return. The basic legitimation of conquest over native peoples is the conviction of our superiority, not merely our mechanical, economic, and military superiority, but our moral superiority. Our dignity rests on that quality, and it underlies our right to direct the rest of humanity. Material power is nothing but a means to that end." Thus, the view of the Europeans and the Americans about western civilization and colonization/imperialism are closely related. I always wonder how can the European countries and the US, which were/are imperial powers, are portrayed as models of democracies. This portrayal is correct if and only if IMPERIALISM AND DEMOCRACY are one and the same.

That is why "freedom" and "democracy" in the rhetoric of the European countries and the US have become little more than hollow words, "a pretty shell, emptied of all content or meaning." They can be whatever they want them to be. Arundhati Roy lamented that "Freedom" and "democracy" are "the Free World's whore, willing to dress up, dress down, willing to satisfy a whole range of taste, available to be used and abused at will." Thus, "freedom" and "democracy" have become euphemism of the West and the US.

Commenting on the relationship between the Western European colonization around the world and the emergence of the modern world system, Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed says that the modern world system has emerged "through a process of systematic genocidal violence conducted across disparate continents, killing in total thousands of millions of indigenous peoples in Africa, Asia and America." He further notes that the modern world system "systematically generates genocidal violence against hundreds of millions of people…and systematically finds ways to legitimize this violence as normal, functional, necessary… for us to live, breathe and prosper." In other words, the dominant European and American political culture "mystifies and obscures the systematization and globalization of genocidal violence in the emergence, expansion and consolidation of the modern world system — not only since 1492, but even continuing past 1945 until now." To sustain this modern world system, Europe and the US have supported/are supporting and used/using dictators like Suharto, Pinochet, Shah of Iran, Saudi Kings, Marcos of Philippines, Musharaf, King Abdullah of Jordan....

It is the European and American IDEA of western civiliztion that has cultivated a perception of "others" as sub-human beings. Because when a set of perpetrators faces its victims, in order to go about its business of wanton killing, it must first sever any human connection with it. It must see its victims as sub-human, as parasites whose eradication would be a service to society. Here, for example, is an account of the massacre of Pequot Indians by English Puritans led by John Mason in Connecticut in 1636:
"Those that escaped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyre, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente thereof, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice." The words of Madalene Albright on the death of innocent Iraqi children, women and men - "it is worth it" - echoes the European and American perception of "others" as sub-human. The butchering of innocent people in Iraq, Congo, Palestine, Afghanistan by the Americans and the Europeans further support this. These are the VICTIMS OF THE IDEA OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION.

Thank you Steve Riley - By Jove, I think you've got it!!!!

Why else pass these unconstitutional laws and enable big brother monitoring and build detention camps? We can only hope the populace realizes that this is the end of the process that began in the late 1980s, with the construction of secure, armed gated communities by the ruling oligarchy of capitalistic imperialist warmongers trying to hold onto their ill-gotten gains as well as generate some more.

I read a blog which described Suharto well: "He was the Pol Pot of Indonesia."
But he was our Pol Pot.

I think Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge was eventually supported by the US after the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia and toppled the regime.

So Pol Pot and his supporters eventually got a large amount of non-monitored covert American military aid, but without the positive recognition Suharto gained from his US, UK and Australian masters.

Its amazing that Suharto's genocide (many of the slaughtered Indonesians were ethnic Chinese)has never been the stuff of talk and discussion. Pol Pot's ethnocide and mass killings -which are equated to genocide- is repeatedly harped upon.

Of course, the illegal US carpet bombing of, and destruction of Cambodia's infrastruction and farmlands (thus forcing peasants into Cambodia's ill prepared cities) didn't contribute toward the massive upheavals and deaths in Cambodia.

In fact, a CIA report predicted at least a half to one million Cambodians would die no matter who took power after the US and Lon Nol were kicked out.

ClassAct,

There's that slamming of the West again, as if our problems were unique and there's a Shangri-La just over the horizon somewhere. Where? In the mideast? Africa? China?

As a matter of fact, I just finished reading Hinton's translation of Confucius' "Analects", which I highly recommend to progressives today. Read the intro as well. Centuries of Chinese warlords and emperors ignored or distorted Confucius. One of the last aphorisms in the book was most prophetic of all. It went something along these lines: the best sort of governing nurtures first, teaches second, and only as a last resort governs.

Let's cut the anti-West nonsense already. There's plenty of blame to go around, and we're ALL in this boat together.

Has everybody heard Ralph Nader on Amy Goodman today? Checked out http://www.naderexplore08.org? What do third party enthusiasts think about this? Where is the CD story?

Civilization begins with literacy and it is time the West realized it is 3,000 years behind in its literacy because while it requires others to read its own classics, the West is almost entirely illiterate in basic ideas beyond its blinkers. It is impossible to debate with people who know nothing outside their own assumptions.

Excellent article, Amy. Thank you.
Empires have been around for a long time (almost an unbroken thread), for thousands of years actually. There is no excuse for them. But they have been a part of the human landscape for a long time. In America, many of us are angry because we are citizens of the current mega-empire, and it's painful to watch the toll of human suffering that empire brings with it. I don't know how we can change this phenomenon, but I do believe that it won't get altered by more violence. Maybe we can inspire one another to take the unceasing small steps that might make a difference. I know that time is running out. Global warming is upon us. Maybe we should simply come from the heart and do what we can. For me personally, there is unshakeable meaning in beauty, love, and inspiration, even if death is just around the bend.

I know things look bad, but I beleive at this time in human history we are witnessing the beginning of the end of Western industrial corporate capitalism. Few people recognize this trend, but the most powerful monied rulers in America most certainly do.

Our ruling capitalists have great fear of an evolutionary global consciousness that will expose the unsustainable, destructive and intrisic evil of Western global corporate capitalism.

That is the reason for the war on terrorism, and the continuing build up of American military power. It is to crush any flea with a sludge hammer.

That is why we have such a rapid build up of the national security state, spying on everyone, and with every local patriotic suck-ass black-booted police force in America being armed and equiped to suppress any and all political dissent.

All of this clamp-down on anti-capitalistic dissent is in support for the corporate capitalistic rule of the world, the American Empire. The ambitions of American Empire are all spelled out in the Project For the New American Century. As a society, we have been seduced and consumed by our American consumer culture.

However, the ulitmate brutal clamp-down by the American security state will not succeed. I believe it will be the one event necessary to finally wake up Western civilization.

I firmly believe the "higher angels" of our nature will eventually rule. The spiritual dynamics of democracy, with the transcending spiritual nature of Humankind, and the increasing awareness of the principles spelled out in The Earth Charter initiative will outlive the Project for the New American Century.

This emerghing higher consciousness is really about our most exciting stage of human evolution, termed by David C. Korten and Joanna Macy as "The Great Turning".

The MSM does not wish us to know any thing about this epic movement. We are in the belly of the capitalistic beast, thus we need to seek our information and wisdom elsewhere.

Common-Dreams readers should read more about this emerging higher global consciousness, and develope a greater appreciation of the spiritual magnitude of The Earth Charter, and become part of the Earth Charter initiative.

Western civilization will come but not on this side of the equator.

Pacifica Radio - 'Democracy, Now!' airs in San Francisco at 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. M-F (94.1 FM). I keep a tiny radio under my pillow to hear Amy's headlines and feature stories. Each day seems to bring a new worse thing.

I am reading The Shock Doctrine and have had my eyes opened: torture is historically always part of economic torture. We are nauseated by
torture, but rarely ask why is it done, whose interest does it serve?

Now that our "leaders" (foot soldiers for M.I.C.) seem unwilling or unable to stop torture, the collapse of the economy is much more understandable. I hate all that the Bush administration has done. I am sickened to see that there is no real power to oppose his policies - that the money behind the policies goes to office holders accross the board. My country kills in my name. I write letters, I call, I march, and I do not know what to do.

My candidates Kucinich, then Edwards, have been silenced. I can vote for Cindy, but I am near despair.

The posters singling out white people and the West, apparently, aren't widely read. I like to direct people to this researcher's site: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

I don't know where this self-loathing meme comes from, but let's be a little more realistic, folks. There's plenty of tyranny to go around in the course of human history.

While I don't know where the self-loathing meme comes from, I know where it leads. It furthers a wedge between populists of different creeds and nationalities. There is no acceptable nationality or race for tyranny, it's wrong because it's tyranny.

Does anyone know what Gandhi was talking about when he said that the Western Civilization would be a good idea?

There are certain facets of the Western being that can defintely be very beneficial to life on earth.

Gandhi was well exposed to the western mode of being, in South Africa England and India.

He was also from a culture that was predominantly vegetarian.
I have posted in previously articles, the need for the east to ape the west. (and perhaps they other way around?)

And there are certainly people on this web site who have acquired values from the eastern mindset despite being from a judeo/christian/muslim upbringing.

They may have home grown it, but it is well established in the east.....

Well, we could start by not electing another president from a political or military family background. Obama is the one left who isn't either the wife or son of something prior in our "uncivilization."

Amy Goodman is a great journalist. Thank god for her. Another wonderful article.

Western civilization is a myth. Now that the money that was never there for the 'lower classes' seems to have run out (credit crunch making it harder to get loans etc.), the masses will soon 'see' the myth.

Then ...any offers???

white people really are the scourge of the planet, aren't they! and israel ain't far behind. too bad the american people are the gutless type of white people. there was a time when the people coulda' done something to stop the white leaders. it is too late now! you have cut your own throats and smiled while you did it!

Indonesia reminds us that other people are as detestable as we are, and Guantanamo reminds us that we are no better than than brutal savages anywhere else. The Bush administration has merely ushered the once hopeful, once exceptional, putatively civilized United States into the great unwashed community of man, a vast tribe of yahoos whose proliferation has been arguably the worst disaster ever unleashed upon the biosphere. Without us, granted, there would never have been a Mozart, nor would it have occurred to anybody to make violins out of lumber and eviscerated cats to play that sublime music. From there, however, our achievements run so far into the negative that life itself must long for our extinction. Civilization simply means urban blight. It is hard to place ones hope in that since by its nature it does not contain the possibility of benign behavior. My hope is that we will miraculously be reduced to small numbers, a managed population of several thousand, on a protected reserve - perhaps in the Houston area - paved with asphalt and up to our noses in the stench and crime and junk food our happiness requires.

THE END IS NEAR. Those signs from the 60s were only off a few years. We will continue to support repression and totalarian governments, including our own.

We may be past the tipping point and throwing our support behind the Democratic Party front runners is only pushing the train wreck over the cliff a little less slower, but it is going over the cliff never the less.

It is a sad day when Obama represents 'progressive' values with all his talk of war, death penalty, corporate partnership.

so it goes...

Roma Victa!! Roma Victa!! No change in 2 millenia. We are really screwed. Thank you Amy you are not only a progressive Diva, you are one hell of a journalist. Blessings be upon you.

Peace.

If we had a democracy rather than a plutocracy, we could try our present 'leaders' in the World Court, and then send them to Gitmo for long vacations. I think e e cummings said it best; he described the human species as "manunkind."

The irony is that what we call Western civilization consists of the last group of humans to crawl out of barbarism. We appear to be crawling still. We love to identify the ancient Greeks as our ancestors, conveniently forgetting that we white types are the direct descendants of all those barbarians who brought down the Roman empire, colonized Western Europe, and slaughtered thousands of highly refined, highly civilized Muslims in the Crusades. Yes, it's high time we considered civilization as a preferable option.

Democracy and liberty have been turned into a code word for globalization and corporate liberty to run roughshod over workers around the world....plain and simple. Democracy in most sane people's minds is something different ... a lot different

If I was on that committee I would Waterboard Mukasey at the hearing and then ask him if it was!