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Debunking the Reagan Myth
Historical narratives matter. That's why conservatives are still writing books denouncing F.D.R. and the New Deal; they understand that the way Americans perceive bygone eras, even eras from the seemingly distant past, affects politics today.
And it's also why the furor over Barack Obama's praise for Ronald Reagan is not, as some think, overblown. The fact is that how we talk about the Reagan era still matters immensely for American politics.
Bill Clinton knew that in 1991, when he began his presidential campaign. "The Reagan-Bush years," he declared, "have exalted private gain over public obligation, special interests over the common good, wealth and fame over work and family. The 1980s ushered in a Gilded Age of greed and selfishness, of irresponsibility and excess, and of neglect."
Contrast that with Mr. Obama's recent statement, in an interview with a Nevada newspaper, that Reagan offered a "sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."
Maybe Mr. Obama was, as his supporters insist, simply praising Reagan's political skills. (I think he was trying to curry favor with a conservative editorial board, which did in fact endorse him.) But where in his remarks was the clear declaration that Reaganomics failed?
For it did fail. The Reagan economy was a one-hit wonder. Yes, there was a boom in the mid-1980s, as the economy recovered from a severe recession. But while the rich got much richer, there was little sustained economic improvement for most Americans. By the late 1980s, middle-class incomes were barely higher than they had been a decade before - and the poverty rate had actually risen.
When the inevitable recession arrived, people felt betrayed - a sense of betrayal that Mr. Clinton was able to ride into the White House.
Given that reality, what was Mr. Obama talking about? Some good things did eventually happen to the U.S. economy - but not on Reagan's watch.
For example, I'm not sure what "dynamism" means, but if it means productivity growth, there wasn't any resurgence in the Reagan years. Eventually productivity did take off - but even the Bush administration's own Council of Economic Advisers dates the beginning of that takeoff to 1995.
Similarly, if a sense of entrepreneurship means having confidence in the talents of American business leaders, that didn't happen in the 1980s, when all the business books seemed to have samurai warriors on their covers. Like productivity, American business prestige didn't stage a comeback until the mid-1990s, when the U.S. began to reassert its technological and economic leadership.
I understand why conservatives want to rewrite history and pretend that these good things happened while a Republican was in office - or claim, implausibly, that the 1981 Reagan tax cut somehow deserves credit for positive economic developments that didn't happen until 14 or more years had passed. (Does Richard Nixon get credit for "Morning in America"?)
But why would a self-proclaimed progressive say anything that lends credibility to this rewriting of history - particularly right now, when Reaganomics has just failed all over again?
Like Ronald Reagan, President Bush began his term in office with big tax cuts for the rich and promises that the benefits would trickle down to the middle class. Like Reagan, he also began his term with an economic slump, then claimed that the recovery from that slump proved the success of his policies.
And like Reaganomics - but more quickly - Bushonomics has ended in grief. The public mood today is as grim as it was in 1992. Wages are lagging behind inflation. Employment growth in the Bush years has been pathetic compared with job creation in the Clinton era. Even if we don't have a formal recession - and the odds now are that we will - the optimism of the 1990s has evaporated.
This is, in short, a time when progressives ought to be driving home the idea that the right's ideas don't work, and never have.
It's not just a matter of what happens in the next election. Mr. Clinton won his elections, but - as Mr. Obama correctly pointed out - he didn't change America's trajectory the way Reagan did. Why?
Well, I'd say that the great failure of the Clinton administration - more important even than its failure to achieve health care reform, though the two failures were closely related - was the fact that it didn't change the narrative, a fact demonstrated by the way Republicans are still claiming to be the next Ronald Reagan.
Now progressives have been granted a second chance to argue that Reaganism is fundamentally wrong: once again, the vast majority of Americans think that the country is on the wrong track. But they won't be able to make that argument if their political leaders, whatever they meant to convey, seem to be saying that Reagan had it right.
Paul Krugman is Professor of Economics at Princeton University and a regular New York Times columnist. His most recent book is The Conscience of a Liberal.
Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company



110 Comments so far
Show AllI think the Mara Salvatruchas should vandalize Reagan's cemetary as they reportedly did a veteran's cemetary on the East Coast. It was Reagan that helped turned El Salvador into a killing field resulting in thousands of deaths and refugees. Many of these young refugees who were threatened with deportation and harrassed in the varrios of LA and other places turned to the Mara Salvatruchas since nobody else would take up for them. So that would be a fitting tribute to Reagan. Blowback is a you know what.
Reagan was elected while showing signs of dementia during the debates. It made no difference! Americans don't see beyond the most superficial. The man fostered a culture of selfishness that destroyed what the 60,s had accomplished. He borrowed huge amounts of money and set the stage for the problems we see today. He continued the exploitation of latin america and supported dictators all over the place. He undermined the environmental Protection Agency , and many others. He was a disgrace and still adored. The American populace will never cease to disappoint you.
and now mccain threatens to demonstrate senile dementia in office if elected. but today is martin luther king, jr. day, and he had a huge hand in what the '60's accomplished. think of reagan as the lenin of his time and place. the reagan revolution instituted policies and narratives that would try to overturn fdr's policies which overcame the great depression. reagan's trickle down economics was like lenin's version of the workers taking over the factories, which meant the state (NOT THE WORKERS) owned and controlled them.
if you pee at the top of a hill (as israelis do all the time in their occupied territories) your effluent will run downhill.
vaudree January 21st, 2008 3:57 pm
> our local champion of Reaganomics himself - Nader2000
Dude, you don't know what you're talking about and, frankly, neither do I.
The choice of Hillary Rodham Clinton vs Barack Hussein Obama is a choice between two corporate suits working for big business. Someone should ask Obama about his vote for the bankruptcy "reform" law that makes it harder for debtors to get rid of credit card debt. At least Bill Clinton consistently vetoed that one before Bush replaced him. Obama's whole modus operandi has been to run as a "bi-partisan" candidate because "partisanship" is a bad thing when people left of center use it.
Here's my response to an Obama apologist who earnestly defended Obama's tribute to Reagan, on the grounds that a candidate of color has a Sisyphean task and must secure support from every part of the political spectrum if he hopes to succeed.
Incidentally, the hair-splitting over what Obama is "really trying to do" is as may be, but Obama's praise of Saint Gipper reminds me very much of the tone used by ESPN executives when they hired Rush Limbaugh-- i.e., it isn't "about" his actual views, it's that he's a "great communicator" who inspires lively debate. Sometimes if one can't say something nice, it is actually better not to say anything at all. OK, my recycled comment:
But dammit, he has to cover a lot more territory than pleasing left-leaning blogosphere.
_______________________________________
Yes, but pleasure is a zero-sum phenomenon.
And even a horse's ass like Joke Line recognized in "Primary Colors" that one of the oldest scams in the book involves a Democratic candidate winking slyly at the progressive constituency, implying that he's sympathetic to their positions, and prevailing upon their sophisticated understanding of the contact sport of politics to cut him some slack while he panders to the regressive elements necessary to win the election.
You know-- the progressives are like the snitch or undercover cop that the cops deliberately manhandle during the big bust so that the criminals won't realize that he or she was an infiltrator. We're supposed to play along with being dissed and disparaged, while the candidate lures the reactionary yahoo swing voters into his camp. It's really a win-win outcome, the strategists calculate.
When this strategy works, the progressives invariably discover that for all of their indulgence and inside-politics acquiescence to "realpolitik", that the incumbent somehow never answers their phone calls once he or she takes office. And is woefully unable to deliver to the liberal/left/progressive supporters because he or she is simply hamstrung or stopped cold by superior political opposition. Sorry about that!
Just ask Lani Guanier.
This is grim. There is no candidate prepared to take on the failure of Reaganomics. Moreover, there will be much rewriting of history in the spate of Bush biographies that will begin to appear once he has left office. Who will write that the Bush years were bracketed by two economic crashes, Enron and the subprime mortgage disaster? What we have to look forward to is a huge papering-over of these last seven years of American history, and I see no candidate who will be unwilling to let that happen. What I see are candidates lusting after all the new and repressive presidential powers that Bush has provided for his successor. All this praise of Saint Ronald does not bode well for the future of the North American continent.
i'm so tired of conservative "think tank" analysis of the "supply-side" lie.........do these people have a conscience? is it a genetic predisposition to lie when you're rich or employed by the rich?
there is NO evidence that "supply-side" has even come close to the claims being made. NONE. yet the lies continue to flow faster than greenland's melting icefields.
thank mr. krugman for again sanely debunking the "supply-side" lie.......unfortunately the great conservative denyers will cloud the issue and accuse non-believers of being "tax increasing liberals"..........and so it goes.
Don't sweat it, if either Hillary or Obama are the selected Democratic candidate, we'll have a Republican president again, most likely either McCain or Romney. That is, if we have an election.
Many will ignore John Edwards when voting in the primaries and either vote or write in Kucinich, Edwards will lose and so will everyone. That's how it is.
Fine article, as far as it goes.
Next would be to mention how insane militarism is driving the US economy.
And the even more fundamental condition of unsustainable, coerced maximized growth. Does this growth ever reach maturity? Do its proponents ever reach maturity?
Now I wonder why mainstream pundits like Krugman do not connect economy with ecology and the climate-extreming visibly happening. That ecological limitation shows up the ultimate unhealthiness of the consumerist economy.
As much as I was, am, and will forever be anti Regan, his horrible economic policies that did give greed a good name is not incompatible with the idea that he made Americans feel good about themselves and was dynamic. The fact that we shouldn't feel good about ourselves as a war mongering, life-destroying people still does not negate that he accomplished something good or bad
One part of the legacy of the Reagan era was a change in our vocabulary. Workers used to be described as workers. The word "consumer" was substituted for worker during the Reagan years.
I recognized the strategy in that at the time and found it laughable. But they succeeded.
It is absurd, of course. Without workers and the work they perform, there would be nothing to consume. The only people who are fundamentally consumers are the bosses because they don't produce anything.
Workers are fundamentally the producers of our society, and it is insulting to refer to them as consumers.
As I read the comments here, I am reminded of Harlan Ellison's harrowing introduction to his short story collection, "Approaching Olivion" entitled "Reaping the Whirlwind". While this was written in the mid 1970s (which this decade reminds me of, only with more neon lighting), the following statement from it could easily apply to our current situation. When talking about the pursuit of "happiness" and "security", Ellison replies, "What fools you are. Happy, secure corpses you'll be. You're approaching oblivion, you know it, and you won't do a thing to save yourselves."
Any triumph of the Republicans in this election cycle now would be a Pyrrhic victory, a delaying of the inevitable collapse of the GOP. The Democrats may not fare much better but perhaps that too is for the best. Here lies the real Reagan legacy, ashes and ruins.
When I was in a remote corner of northern Pakistan last summer I came back to the biggest town there, Skardu, and saw newspapers for the first time in a month. All the headlines were variations of "Obama Says He Will Bomb Pakistan!"
This made me wonder if Mr. Obama thought things through thoroughly before speaking. It was as if he did not comprehend that when a candidate for President of the United States says he is going to bomb somebody they will hear about it, and that that could have unforeseen consequences for American citizens who may be traveling in the country he is threatening to bomb.
I wondered the same thing when I saw the interview Obama gave to the right wing newspaper in Reno, NV. Does he not realize that his words are going to be distributed everywhere?
Or was this a ploy to counter some of the bogus connections which have been made by right wing fringe groups in the U.S. between Obama and Louis Farakan recently?
http://www.digthewig08.com
Reagan gave us the very essence of style over substance. Since then the truth has been very definitely liberal and the majority of the middle class fell to worshiping the three monkeys while the American dream turned into a travesty of greed and class bigotry.
Ronnie made us feel oh so good about ourselves and never again will we tarnish the American delusion by impeaching a president, or his demonic master the Big Dick, over substantial crimes against the American people and humanity in general.
Oh no. Only charges of meaningless sexual misconduct will be allowed in the hallowed halls of Congress.
Thanks Ronnie. So effective were you that the Democratic party gives us only cowards too willing to lead the lemmings over the cliff.
Will someone of substance please stand up!
It is no surprise that Grandpa Caligula's (Jello Biafra's all too accurate assessment of Reagan) partisans have been quite busy shining up the reputation of their icon. They have much to obfuscate, given Reagan's misdeeds that date back to his SAG presidency. That Obama choose to pander to that crowd for temporary political gain is unfortunate and an indication of the atmosphere that Grandpa Caligula's partisans have successfully created. Therefore, it is incumbent upon progressives to counter the "Reagan myth," and it won't be as hard as some think. We already have a leg up...the truth.
Obama praised Reagan?
That's like Uncle Tom thanking Massa' fo' the whippin' he just got.
Reagan nearly started WWIII with a careless comment over a live mike. He was at best a B-movie actor who was nothing but a front for the corporations. It's almost sad that Hinkley didn't succeed.
It's down to Clinton vs. Obama. I guess we know which heaven Prof. Krugman has his treasures stored up in.
Obama's Reagan comments are way overblown. He expressed his admiration for Reagan's skill and success as a politician who built a winning coalition and as a president who left a tangible imprint on America. He didn't express any particular love for the nature of that imprint or for the policies of Grandpa Caligula.
Obama would like to achieve the same level of political success, while taking the country in a very different direction.
Hard to say whether it's worthwhile to even acknowledge a Reagan Myth, let alone debunk it at this point. It'll have to be done very carefully, as to not inadvertently grant it more credence by wasting time with these scoundrels.
Thank you, Paul Krugman, for a wonderful article. Obama, like most modern Dem leaders on the national scale, is continuing a narriative about the eoonomy that is just plain untrue. Reagonomics, like Bushonomics, failed. When will the Democratic Party be able to say that plain truth?
I'm not holding my breath.
Edwards 2008
Reagan was elected while showing signs of dementia during the debates. It made no difference! Americans don't see beyond the most superficial. The man fostered a culture of selfishness that destroyed what the 60,s had accomplished. He borrowed huge amounts of money and set the stage for the problems we see today. He continued the exploitation of latin america and supported dictators all over the place. He undermined the environmental Protection Agency , and many others. He was a disgrace and still adored. The American populace will never cease to disappoint you.
KEM PATRICK___ You are exactly right as the Republican controlled media decided the Dem candidates for us and plan to win this election again as they are beatable. McCain is now being pushed to the front, and all that is needed is a well timed attack on Iran to clinch the deal. Be sure Rove is still figuring strategy and getting well paid for it. Edwards would be a great candidate, but the media took care of his chances by ignoring him along with the other Dems that got shelved. Ain`t democracy great!!
Too bad someone won't take on the entire Conservative program and mind-set for exactly what they are: Very successful policies for the well to do and disasters for everyone else.
Instead of showing how reasonable and open minded they are about Reagan and his "successes" they should by attacking the old bastard and everything he stood for.
Like NateW said above the truth and every statistical analysis is own our side. What's been missing is the cojones to do/say something.
The quote from Bill Clinton from 1991 is very illustrative of what's been happening. He rails mightily against the elevation of "...private interests over public good, etc..." that happened during Reagan Time. That's his wink, wink, nudge, nudge to the Left. Once in office he proceeds to enact those parts of the Reagan/Bush I agenda that they didn't get around to, i.e. NAFTA, GATT, Welfare Reform, etc.
That's why we should be very sceptical of the Dems. Edwards comes as close among the ("viable") candidates to talking the talk but has a spotty record on walking the walk.
Hillary and Barack: it's American Idol goes to the White House.
Ok, so Bush2 said on Friday that "I reduced taxes and the overall tax revenue went UP", a basic premise of conservative/Reagon economics that says encouraging investment will cause such a huge increase in business that it overcomes the lower tax rate?
But is it TRUE? Did the U.S.govt. really take in more tax revenue in [eg] 2007 than in 2006? And, if true, was there some other reason for that?
Are they still trying to replace FDR with Reagan on the Dime?...and put his face on Mount Rushmore?
These efforts to elevate RR to sainthood keep coming up in Congress again and again. Personally, I think they're some kind of right-wing loyalty test. Congress reps who vote "yes" on naming an airport, a federal office building, or an aircraft carrier after The Annointed One are added to a list of those who will be rewarded when the RNC doles out election funds.
Why all these honors for a president who "cut and ran" from Lebannon after terrorists killed 300 U.S. Marines in 1983, who traded guns for hostages with Iran, and funded terrorism in Nicaragua?
John Edwards did not hesitate to talk about the damage RR did to union labor in this country. He's got my vote.
Overseas stock markets are dropping like a rock...
Mission Accomplished?
Sorry I'm about to speak ill of the dead, but wasn't this "great" president the same man who considered ketchup a vegtable in the school lunch program and denied there were homeless people in America...not to mention ignoring AIDS. I was a kid when Regan was President, but even I knew he was the most overblown president of the 20th century. Sorry Regan worshipers. Oh yeah, and he didn't end communism in the Soviet Union either. That was Gorby.
As I said before: It's almost sad Hinkley missed.
For all the truth of what is being said here, and I do agree that this was some nasty and dangerous political game playing, I still , if worst comes to worst, and it looks likely that it will be Hillary vs. Barak , of those 2 I would rather have Obama, who at least took a clear ethical stand against the Iraq invasion, than Hillary who is far more deeply beholden to the neo liberal, Nafta, Gat, Evil Iran, pro Israel, pro Drug company pro HMO, pro extraordinary rendition, agenda than Barak. With Hillary you know what you are getting. With Barak at least it's a crapshoot.
I don't want to present myself as some kind of singular figure…I think what is different is the times…I think we're in one of those times right now. I think that we're bogged down in one of those times right now…I think Kennedy moved the country in a fundamentally different direction…I think the Republican approach has played itself out…What I'm saying is is that I think the average baby boomer has moved beyond the issues of the 60s, but our politicians haven't…"-Barack Obama
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/VIDEO/80115026&oaso=news.rgj.com/breakingnews
18 minutes in
"Obama-Reagan Context You Have Not Read"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/18/172928/040/265/439089
Bill Clinton knew that in 1991, when he began his presidential campaign. "The Reagan-Bush years," he declared, "have exalted private gain over public obligation, special interests over the common good, wealth and fame over work and family. The 1980s ushered in a Gilded Age of greed and selfishness, of irresponsibility and excess, and of neglect."
++
This is an outrageous statement when you look back at Clinton 42's reign. Clinton 42 and the Democrats in Congress were enthusiastic supporters of expansion of deregulation of financial regs and oversight. Bush 43 has made it all so much worse, but while Krugman was working for Clinton 43 he was in part responsible for the economic policies promoted by the Democrats, which have been as guilty as the Republicans for the economic mess we are in.
Krugman is a flack for the Democrats.
Only the winners get to write history. So if you want to win you must defeat the enemy. To do so you must fight with everything that you have available as your enemy will certainly do so.
For those of you that do not like to refer to the Right Wing as a enemy I wish you well. History as already proven that they will fight you with everything that they can. If this next election has to be decided by a re-count you can consider the Right Wing has and will win again.
One of their favorite sayings says it all, "Victory Through Superior Firepower". Who among you want to stand up against that? Maybe we can talk them out of wanting to be in charge. Do you really believe that "W" will listen to you? And who does "W" represent? He is the enemy folks as are all that are beholding to the Mega corporations.
Welcome to reality . . . . The real difference between "W" and Reagen was that one was a trained actor.
Rename it Washington National and get rid of that myth.
You're on to something MENDO CHUCK, and probably the only way the Right will be defeated, since the Left doesn't have what's required to defeat them, is for America to fail big time under their misrule ......... which clearly they will continue to do under either R-lite Barrack or Hillary, just as they do now under Congress' dorky Democratic 'leadership'.
Righties are insane ......... never forget that.
Gee. A choice between Hillary and Obama.
Kinda like choosing between dying of cholera or dysntery.
I have to admit, "RAY GUN" had many of us fooled for a while as he did have a folksy sort of personality that belied what he really stood for. Bush, on the other hand, turned many off before even being elected (appointed) as his arrogance and elementary speech did not seem presidential. It was not until Reagan had been out of office until many realized he had set the stage for the disaster we now have in our country. It was unsettling, to say the least, to hear Barack (Hussein, as the Repubs will not let us forget) remark about how effective Reagen was as president. I believe that Clinton (Billary) thanks to the Repubs, may be our best bet to start reversing course as she. they, know how things get done from experience. If by some miracle, John Edwards gets there and we are permitted to have an election, he may be up to the job also.
Nader2000
"It's down to Clinton vs. Obama. I guess we know which heaven Prof. Krugman has his treasures stored up in.
Obama's Reagan comments are way overblown. He expressed his admiration for Reagan's skill and success as a politician who built a winning coalition and as a president who left a tangible imprint on America. He didn't express any particular love for the nature of that imprint or for the policies of Grandpa Caligula.
Obama would like to achieve the same level of political success, while taking the country in a very different direction."
Thanks this is self evident if people will read the whole quote (in context) and not just HRC's 15 second sound bite or the cognitive dissonance that MSM and DLC want us to believe.
Obama said that Ronnie Reagan was an answer to the excesses of the 60s & 70s. Makes me wonder if his parents had too much excessive sex back in those days. The Age of Aquarius was as close to an age of enlightenment as anyone alive today is likely to see. Those of us in the anti war movement learned to question authority and that civil disobedience is a right and a duty. We ended The Vietnam War by SINGING LOUD in three part harmony with feelin'. Too bad so many young people today are blinded by the promise of Wall Street and the so-called American Dream.
MC DEE: Right on!
Let's not discuss Ronald Reagan without giving mention to the Shamrock Summit - strange how Canadians cringe at the singing of "When Irish Eyes are Smilin'" - and they included that plus the sad consequence of Reaganomics in the video of his death:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/06/05/reagandead_040605.html
(links don't work because of crash but video still does)
And let us not forget how Ronnie Reagan's close personal friend Brian Mulroney is doing these days:
Mulroney's testimony on Thursday December 13:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071212/mulroney_testifies_071213/20071213/
It is possible that Reagan's hands are clean. But how many people who have close friends taking money in paper envelops in hotel rooms have close friends with clean hands!
JOHN R HALL: "The Age of Aquarius" is only beginning, and just as an ocean liner changing course must meet the resistance of the waters to do so, we are hardly yet into the swing of it!
I totally agree about the 60's/70's being a spiritual revolution. For my own sanity I prefer to think of this phase as the opening of a seed. It's been PLANTED and as demonstrated by the life of most seeds, remains UNDERGROUND to safely build up its root structure before rising above the tangible sphere of earth.
The many ecology groups, writers of conscience, protest movements, peace-justice advocates, true artists (who know their gift is intended to raise human consciousness, if not lifestyles for those in need) and songwriters are manifestations of the force that began to come to life in that amazing epoch. A lot of us chose to incarnate to participate in that, probably forgetting the recidivistic wave we'd have to encounter... which is what is occuring now. All things follow wave, cyclic motion so this, too, shall pass. WE must carry the light to retain its cathartic power to bring the changes we hold in our ideals.
Thanks for the historical realism. Although Reagan was "charming" (apparently or so they say - frankly, it never worked for me), it's been nothing but "trickle down economics" ever since, just changing the buzzwords now and then, as tax loopholes and legislation that favors large corporations and wealthy individuals keeps that tap wide open. Somehow the sponges on top keep soaking it all up and the gap between rich and poor just grows.
Reagan's 'trickledown economics' was just the corporations pissing on our heads...
dougnwagner will watch the video as soon as I get off here.
RE: - There is no candidate prepared to take on the failure of Reaganomics.
Reaganomics was not just in the United States, but was practiced by Ronnie's close friends Margaret Thatcher and Brian Mulroney as well. Isn't it Bushit's adherence to the principles of Reaganomics - High military spending, slashing of social programs, high tax cuts to the rich - partially responsible for the mess that Americans are finding themselves in now?
What does Edwards say about Reaganomics? Has anyone asked him?
RE: - One part of the legacy of the Reagan era was a change in our vocabulary. Workers used to be described as workers. The word "consumer" was substituted for worker during the Reagan years.
Controlling minds involved both controlling the interpretation of history and controlling the use of language. What is the difference between being a consumer and being a worker? Do they have the same needs? If they are the same person, one would think so, but the "consumer" is the business friendly portions of the same person - and the "worker" is decidedly not as business friendly.
RE: - Workers are fundamentally the producers of our society, and it is insulting to refer to them as consumers.
But didn't Romney tell the people of Michigan that it is the Corporations (and not the workers) which are the producers of society? McCain told the truth about the jobs being gone and not coming back, but those who vote Repug prefer something a bit more cheerful and positive than the truth (which can be so darned negative!).
RE: - Obama praised Reagan? / That's like Uncle Tom thanking Massa' fo' the whippin' he just got.
Pretty much. Though since AOL viewers chose Reagan as the "Greatest American" - they must be a nation of Leopold von Sacher-Masochs. Don't blame me, I voted for Rosa Parks.
'When Irish eyes are smilin' sure tis steal your heart away'
And who did CBC viewers choose as the Greatest Canadian again?
RE: - It's down to Clinton vs. Obama.
Note that it is our local champion of Reaganomics himself - Nader2000 - who is telling us this. I think his team must be afraid of Edwards.
RE: - Only the winners get to write history.
Which makes history less historical and more fiction.
RE: - Obama said that Ronnie Reagan was an answer to the excesses of the 60s & 70s. Makes me wonder if his parents had too much excessive sex back in those days.
I wish it was just that! The "excesses" of those decades seems to be the focus on human rights and workers rights. Of course those fat cats figured the mice were getting uppity - and that is the first chapter in the history of FTA/NAFTA.
BTW - I know why Canadians don't like NAFTA, but didn't Americans get a better deal out of it than we did?
I remember Reagan's rise quite well, it was the creepiest free-ride ANY American politician BEFORE OR AFTER has ever had from the Corporate Media (CM). The man continually hosed working- and middle-class Americans, while King George pulled strings in the background, and the CM NEVER called them on it. If it weren't for the alternative voices on the internet now, I have no doubt that the corporate media would be calling King George II Jesus H. Christ on earth, incapable of failure, walking on water in every respect.
I was still an instructor at a community college in Central Florida when RWR was prez. We had a new music director who was pro-Reagan, which kind of stunned me, but he was a decent fellow. I remember him saying to me that I had to admit Reagan had done some good things, to which I replied, "Like what?" I never got an answer to the question.
I'm still waiting for Obama to clarify what he was talking about, because that clarification matters very much, and for precisely the reasons outlined in this excellent piece by Paul Krugman.
Lizard: Please share your recreational medication with the rest of us.
I thought Reagan was an idiot and I was in middle school when he was elected. In grade 8, a friend and I wrote a song for the occassion: "We Don't Need No Ronald Reagan" to the tune of that Pink Floyd song that was a popular favorite with 1980s eighth graders.
I am not informed enough here to go into this, but did anyone read Bitter Fruit?
We're responsible for terrible things which took place in Central America, certainly under Reagan. Now we have airports named after men who perpetrated crimes against humanity- Reagan, Dulles, Bush, et al.
It just makes me very very sorry.
excellent article for 2 points
1. obama had very calculated political objectives when he made the 'reagan' comment.
"Maybe Mr. Obama was, as his supporters insist, simply praising Reagan's political skills. (I think he was trying to curry favor with a conservative editorial board, which did in fact endorse him.) But where in his remarks was the clear declaration that Reaganomics failed?"
obama addressed this tonight in the SC debate clearly stating that he praised reagans political success (unity theme). However, he went on to point out that as an elected representative he opposed reagan's philosophy by voting against it. All of these candidates (including the candidate 'obama' that drew our attention b/c of a nyt's correspondent comments on ideological currents in presidential politics) to some degree represent the status quo. The fact that the economy is headed for a train wreck only emboldens the democrats chances of winning in the general election. This means any dem that wins gets bonus points with coattails. A major portion of the disaster will be pinned on the vest of the outgoing US president, enhancing the dems chances of winning in November.
this presents unique opportunities for the incoming president (perhaps the chance to override a veto, for example, 60 votes in the senate would enable a president to support legislation as it works it way through all the current channels of congress). I think obama can handle this. I believe ms rodham clinton is more beholden to the corporate sponsors of her husband (as is reflected in her own child's profession, hedge funds?) and that personal resentments for numerous reasons (including a legitimate point that America doesn't deserve dynastic rule) will come to the surface that will prevent a clinton presidency from drawing the ire (perhaps well deserved) of the conservative right.
Isn't it bizarre that neither edwards (the kingfisher) nor obama (the comprimiser) are willing to call a spade a spade and question the legitimacy of 32 years of two family rule in America. Why isn't this a legitimate debating point? Instead we get guess who's coming to dinner.
It's true obama and clinton have similar voting records in the senate, which is praised as being more progressive the sen Edwards voting record; despite that edwards is from a conservative part of the country north Carolina who of course elected Elizabeth dole.
All three of these candidates will be beholden to the interests of corporate America.
So senator edwards, clinton or obama will represent the dems in the general. (yes you can vote for dennis, in fact based on his voting record he is the most appropriate candidate for this moment in history, but he will not be elected, b/c the system has always been rigged. But obama can defeat clinton, and he's a relative unknown. he's a product of both richy dailey's chicago and the arcane obtruse nature of the illinois legislature (which is prone to compromise). Which explains his unity theme and conciliatory politics. But strategically it's calculated and the unity theme will give obama incredible strength in the general when he will easily convince moderate republicans (chuck hegel, etc) in the general to support him. Polling suggest obama would be a more effective candidate than clinton in the general. does this scenario appear to be progressive ? no. is there a viable progressive solution ? I'm all ears but as I've noted earlier a 3rd party campaign has never been effective in the general election (1912, 27% vote, 2nd place). Therefore its TINA (there is no alternative) or ABC (anyone but Clinton) ;which isn't necessarily progressive is it? Actually I believe obama is more of an unknown in the equation. The DLC is clearly supporting Clinton (the doomed candidate that represents imperial designs), bill Clintons obnoxious comments suggest this as does hillary's aggressive name calling tonight in the debate (a lot of which was focused on obama…. Hmmm first serious African American candidate, first primary with significant African American vote…….hmmmm, gotta wonder why the black guy has to explain his 4,000 votes in the state legislature to a candidate who never held political office until it was purchased for her with presidential credits from her husband's career.) 'liberal' politicians like leahy, feingold, kerry have supported obama. These are politicians who are more 'progressive' based on their voting records then the average American (1 of the 2 voters in America who voted for bush last time remember red/blue?). Also, they are privy to the club (congress), and understand these people on more personal level (hopefully as our elected officials, right?). leahy, fiengold, kerry (and indeed kucinich with his nod in IA) represent the established left wing of the democratic party. The educated affluent democratic voter in new hampshire who voted for obama. I believe these people, people who serve on congressional committees in our names ( remember fiengolds criticism of gongalez) are offended with the DLC's choice (ala bill) and are expressing their angst by supporting ABC. Theres a rift in the party. It is about race politics and basically payback, rightfully so. The fact is the president will have little control over historical facts (there will be very serious issues India/Pakistan, Kurdistan, nuclear proliferation, environmental degradation, skyrocketing inflation , but who ever the president will be will respond accordingly to training. Both Edwards and obama meet the criteria (trial lawyer, editor of the Harv law review-constituional law lecturer). There was a great photo today in the nyt's of hillary and bill on an airplane. If you look closely at the perspective (kinda like you were looking at a replica of devinci's last supper) you'll see that everyone on the plane , the reporters, hilary is staring at bill.
2. Professer Krugman's honesty evaluation of he Clinton years.
"It's not just a matter of what happens in the next election. Mr. Clinton won his elections, but - as Mr. Obama correctly pointed out - he didn't change America's trajectory the way Reagan did. Why? Well, I'd say that the great failure of the Clinton administration - more important even than its failure to achieve health care reform, though the two failures were closely related - was the fact that it didn't change the narrative, a fact demonstrated by the way Republicans are still claiming to be the next ronald reagan."
george bush and his myriad supporters will assume political responsibility for the economic crisis that's transpiring (as they did when voters in 2006 used an anti war platform to harken in more dem seats in the congress). The future president will deal with it, all of us will suffer under austere economic policies (ala milton friedman). i'm not moving to new Zealand. but absent a violent revolution which none of the scribes here seems to have the stomach for????
My supervisor at work is 27 years old, his black and has an 8 month old child. He has college education and he knows in his gut obama would be a good candidate. Is it because he's black. Of course, do his feelings have merit. Absolutely. Of the only 2 viable candidates running for president, obama has to justify himself Clinton, Edwards, bush all seem to get a pass. Why?
American idol? Wake up we're (kucinich/edwards supporters) in the minority. It is realpolitik.
Little Brother January 21st, 2008 12:05 pm
interesting post...
as for infiltraters of progressive sites? please. this is public space and we're not having a cup of tea or coffee, you do not know what my political resume is in terms of resistance to empire. the point is, if we can't honestly talk about the state of our politics (even if it is american idol) what's the point (lying to ourselves?). this is reality.
vote your conscience, i'll meet you in the streets of denver, but if at the end of the day edwards/kucinich does not have the delegates at the convention, please encourge them to pledge their delegates to the obama campaign.
Nader2000 - you still blame Ralph Nader for Bush getting elected. Ok, my comment was a bit extreme but you are still the local devils advocate.
It is still a choice between Clinton-Obama and Edwards. And I doubt you like Edwards policies any more than you like Nader's.
"This is nothing but Ronald Reagan's 'trickle-down' nonsense gone global. It's George Bush's gibberish about a New World Order. Then came Bill Clinton, who is to a real Democrat what near beer is to beer. He has led the Democratic Party - once the proud political home of working folks - into an unholy alliance with Republicans and Wall Street lobbyists to embrace NAFTA, GATT, WTO, AFTA, CBI, MAI and other initials that spell 'gotcha' in all the Romance languages. They sell these deals by using the high-minded rhetoric of Free Trade! Jobs! Exports! Growth! Prosperity! and other come-ons. But every one of these trade agreements and structures rips more economic and political power out of our hands and conveys it on a silver platter to the elite club of international speculators, powerhouse bankers, corporate jefes, and other hustlers - men with smiling lips and squinting hearts." - Jim Hightower