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TechnoratiIn Voiding Suit, Appellate Court Says Torture is to be Expected
WASHINGTON -- A federal appeals court Friday threw out a suit by four British Muslims who allege that they were tortured and subjected to religious abuse in the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a ruling that exonerated 11 present and former senior Pentagon officials.
It appeared to be the first time that a federal appellate court has ruled on the legality of the harsh interrogation tactics that U.S. intelligence officers and military personnel have used on suspected terrorists held outside the United States since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
The detainees allege that they were held in stress positions, interrogated for sessions lasting 24 hours, intimidated with dogs and isolated in darkness and that their beards were shaved.
The three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled that the detainees captured in Afghanistan aren't recognized as ``persons'' under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act because they were aliens held outside the United States. The Religious Freedom Act prohibits the government from ``substantially burdening a person's religion.''
The court rejected other claims on the grounds that then-Attorney General John Ashcroft had certified that the military officials were acting within the scope of their jobs when they authorized the tactics, and that such tactics were ``foreseeable.''
``It was foreseeable that conduct that would ordinarily be indisputably `seriously criminal' would be implemented by military officials responsible for detaining and interrogating suspected enemy combatants,'' Circuit Judge Karen LeCraft Henderson wrote in the court's main opinion.
Judge Janice Rogers Brown dissented with parts of the opinion, saying that ``it leaves us with the unfortunate and quite dubious distinction of being the only court to declare those held at Guantanamo are not `person(s).'
'`This is a most regrettable holding in a case where plaintiffs have alleged high-level U.S. government officials treated them as less than human,'' Brown wrote.
After being held for more than two years, the four men were repatriated to Britain in 2004, where they were freed within 24 hours without facing criminal charges, said Washington lawyer Eric Lewis, who represented them along with the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights.
Three of the men - Shafiq Rasul, Asif Iqbal and Rhuhel Ahmed - say they traveled to Afghanistan from Pakistan in October 2001 to provide humanitarian relief but were seized by an Uzbek warlord in northern Afghanistan the next month and sold to U.S. troops for bounty money. The three said they were unarmed and never engaged in combat against the United States.
The fourth, Jamal al Harith, said he'd planned to attend a religious retreat in Pakistan in October 2001 but was ordered to leave the country because of animosity toward Britons. When he tried to drive a truck home via Iran and Turkey, he says, his truck was hijacked at gunpoint and he was handed over to the Taliban, who jailed him and accused him of being a spy. When the Taliban fell after the U.S.-led invasion, he was detained and transported to Guantanamo.
The detainees filed suit in October 2004 against former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, former Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, who was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time, and nine other senior military officers. They allege that the Pentagon officials violated the Alien Tort Statute, the Geneva Conventions, the religious freedom law and the Constitution with their harsh treatment.
In upholding a lower court's rejection of all the claims but those under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the circuit court said that the interrogation tactics, which Rumsfeld first authorized in 2002, were ``incidental'' to the duties of those who'd been sued.
``It is an awful day for the rule of law and common decency,'' said Lewis, the detainees' attorney, ``when a court finds that torture is all in a day's work for the secretary of defense and senior generals. . . . I think the executive is trying to create a black hole so there is no accountability for torture and religious abuse.''
Lewis said his clients intended to ask the Supreme Court to overturn the ruling.
McClatchy Newspapers 2008
68 Comments so far
Show AllBig Bad Bob wrote: "Bush's tears were not for the nazi's slaughter house."
Naw, he's just picking up a few tips from Hillary.
It looks like the new thought crime act is about to sail through the Senate like it did Congress. Now it is, I believe, S 1959. It passed the House something like 406-6. I suppose the Senate will come out in the neighborhood of 98-2, der Bush will rush to sign it and everyone who has a thought about government inequity and corruption, or doesn't think that war is the thing to do, will automatically become a homegrown terrorist. Bush will seize their assets under his latest EO, along with the assets of anyone who takes pity on them and helps them, then the camps will begin to fill up and we will have recreated the Third Reich in seven years. Real American "know how."
TAILCAP --
Thanks for the brilliant comparison --
corps vs humans . . .
QUOTE:
Truly Orwellian. Torture is okay because they aren't recognized as persons. Corporations on the other hand are recognized as persons. Perpetual war to bring peace. We destroy the village in order to save it. How do they get away with this shit?UNQUOTE
The corruption of our government has put the inhumane in charge ---
Their thinking and violence, nonetheless, is counter to the spirit of the nation, of its founders --- despite how many treaties and accords they rip up--
THIS in violation of the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights
It's a violation of our own Constitution ---
And it's a violation of the Geneva Accords ---
Where shall we atone for and amend the genocide against the native American and the theft of their land -- ?
for the African enslaved in America ---
and the pillage and rape of their homeland?
for two million Iraqis newly killed in Gulf War II -- and the rape and pillage of their nation and their resources?
BIRD FLEW UNDER -- Go ahead and attempt to "blame the people who voted for them,"
We all know now that BUSH was NEVER ELECTED
NOT ENOUGH Americans actually voted for him to TAKE office, in fact quite the opposite,
HE STOLE this Country and is a criminal thousands (billions) of times over
A human being is a human being. It's not a loophole that decides whether a human is a "person" or not. It's basic biology as well as common sense; to say some humans are not people is revolting and hypocritical of the US. That is a trait of a genocide mentality.
Ultimately this is the fault of the American people, I don't blame Bush, the right wing Congress or the right wing Judiciary, they're just doing the job they were elected to do...I blame the people who voted for them. Unfortunately we have more people who are concerned about immigrants taking away their jobs than about doing what is right. Americans are so afraid and so greedy they consistantly elect right wing corrupt politicians who work for the corporations that will screw them in the end...and if someone gets killed or tortured in the process, even children...well its just collateral damage...I hope the American economy crashes big time to wake these people up. As for the good Americans on the left unfortunately the rest of the World is lumping them, more and more, in with the fascist Americans on the right because nothing changes. We need impeachment that's real change! Elections don't change squat especially since candidats like Kucinich never win.
Not only is it ok for americans to torture because they are just following orders, it's even ok for americans to give the orders to torture. This is quite different than the American stand at Nuremberg.
"And Bush is "crying" over in Israel over events that happened over a half century ago."
It's even stranger than that when one remembers that our Resident bush's paternal grandfather, good ole Prescott,
had a decidedly nazi involvement in those events.
Isn't this the height of irony -- the rather stinging dissent of Janice Rogers Brown, whom Ralph Neas of People for the American Way had once described as " the far right's dream judge!"
Her dissent does give me a frisson of hope, though, in a situation (Guantanamo) which seems almost hopeless.
FOLLOWTHEMONEY -- I like what you said:
"These judges are declaring these prisoners non-persons in furtherance of their desire to consume human flesh without the stigma of being known as cannibals."
I guess I went too far with my MACyDees comment, and liberal earthquaking shakes (but it's because I'm such a bmad and angry vegetarian)
Yet another disgrace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We really need to grab a perspective on how broken our government is.
-----------Matt....I think we need to understand what our government is in the first place...well, at least I need to....so that was why I opted for more transparency with the actions of the governments in some other I dont remember what posts...Right now the government is like, I cant tell you this, I cant tell you that, no you cant know how this and that works..but hey I can tell you what i feel like you need to know.............the people are very limited in terms of government participation, or even have their participation shaped by the government one way or another. They have very limited, hard to cross-by sources from which they could learn how the government really works, and the opportunity for them to actually be in the situation to learn or test what they learned are even more slim. ...
Suddenly I remembered a comment from one of Sid-Meier's Alpha-Centaury's game video's....beware of he, who denies you information.....
Personally, I'm the type that likes to put all the domino pieces in place then let the whole effect starts....
Damn it...I have to go now...stop borthering me, you....Job!!
oh ps. Says hi to Mr. or Mrs. Nspire above me =P
If they are not persons you can do what you want with them.
As non human animal species know all too well.
The answer is to remove the "special privilege" status enjoyed by "persons" and make it applicable to all.
We will always have war as long as we have slaughterhouses.
we will always have murder as long as we have hunting.
we will always have child abuse as long as we have animal abuse.
Anyone who thinks we can have a perfect society where justice only applies to the "special ones" without negative blowback is a fool.
Humans are part of Nature, and what goes around, comes around.
Human rights extremism and human supremacy are just BS.
These judges are declaring these prisoners non-persons in furtherance of their desire to consume human flesh without the stigma of being known as cannibals.
This also opens up the way for new industries of sex vacations, for the judges can claim they "Did not have sex with that person," with the mental reservation that it was not a person with whom they had sex.
Some of the things we can do is to get out and find those people who may need a picture photo ID and take them to DMV to get one so they can vote, and volunteer to drive them to the polls if need be. And another thing is to start educating everyone we know under thirty who hasn't a clue what's being done to their future; what government is supposed to do, what has been done under this administration, and what their lives could become if they don't start paying attention, and voting.
Great Matt! Just to let you know I support you 100% psycologically. But now how'd we do it! By boradcasting on radio: "hello ladies and gentlemen in our government. we the people have decided you guys are not doing a good job. Now all of ya who are not doing a good job please step outa the line and get out of our sight so we could replace ya with better ones"? Or maybe we could give Mr invisible man a magical wand and just go into those idiot's offices and turn them into vegetables......after a flashy ritual. But then, how do we prevent us from having to start turning more idiots into vegetables in the future?
I'm interested to hear a plan of action....because I do want to support you, but I do not know how to act have a relevant and lasting positive result
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness!!!
IT IS THAT TIME PEOPLE!!!How much longer can we wait? How much more should we take?
Neither party is helping the citizens of this country or representing them.
This system is broken and will not be fixed by an election no matter who wins.
We need to take our government back. The government should be afraid of us the people! We should not be afraid of it. If so we nolonger live iin a democracy we live in a Tyranny!!
The day has come to change the Government.
Nothing else is more important.Nothing.
See you in the streets!!
Now this case just reaffirms my belief that whatever the government or the laws or the systems, it's the people thats running them thats the most important. Not matter how sensible or well thought out system you place down, in the end it all boils down to what kinda people end up in charge of them. Heck, now I can laugh at whoever the guy said democracy is the best form of government to date.
okay thats it for useless stress release. Now how did these guys end up in charge of the US government in the first place? Apparently the founding fathers gave check and balances between government agencies a lot of thought but they forgot to set something up to filter what kinda people will be get in charge of those agencies in the first place. Bah! Guess we missed a big chance there. Maybe next revolution will be better...and the next one after that will improve it further...haha
As for this case, look at who they are suing. Ya know, if ya wanna safely bring down the house with small hands, ya better stick to tedious ways of removing small bricks one by one first then get to the beams and roofs....but if you have huge machinery then its another story.....
WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS SELF-EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL!!!!
WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS SELF-EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL!!!!
Judge Janice Rogers Brown dissented with parts of the opinion, saying that "it leaves us with the unfortunate and quite dubious distinction of being the only court to declare those held at Guantanamo are not `person(s).'
'`This is a most regrettable holding in a case where plaintiffs have alleged high-level U.S. government officials treated them as less than human," Brown wrote.
WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS SELF-EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL!!!!
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Scotus blog has a summary of the finding - you need to scroll down to Detainees...
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/
Judge Janice Rogers Brown is an extreme conservative. She was specifically placed on that seat for her conservative credentials. That was why she left the CA supreme court. Apparently, she is not playing completely by the Politician/Bastards/Scalia/Thomas Federalist-all-police-powers-are-good playbook.
I am slightly amazed.
I must second citizen1, I just bought and read Defying Hitler by Sebastian Haffner. It illustrates how this sort of thing can happen, and how the people can be subsumed into it. I'm sure that the various "think tanks" who guide our propaganda machine have studied the process very carefully. We just have so many more ways to guide sheep to the slaughterhouse than they did in the 30's and 40's. The result seems to be the same and the abattoirs make lots of profit.
For a start, we need the Constitution and Bill of Rights, intact and functioning, back in the halls of government. In a storm, it is difficult to keep a ship off the rocks and shoals, but it is impossible without a rudder.
If you are America then "God Bless You". If you are not then screw you.
If you are not an American then you are not a person.
How far have come!!!! Much, much further than Osama could have imagined - and this wast done by none other than Americans themselves. Aren't we Americans great?
So, besides the Bush administration and the Democratic Leadership, now add the US judiciary on the list of war criminals. The entire US Government should be prosecuted for war crimes.
That is a very good point JADED PROLE. Too bad you weren't on the legal team fighting for those four men. That issue may have been brought up, but it's the first time I have heard it mentioned.
Another effect of this ruling means my a brother and sister may not be citizens. They were born in Guantanamo when my father was stationed there many years ago. They were "citizens" because the base was considered to be US territory.
We can't have it both ways. It either is or is not US terrortory.
We also tend to enforce US laws globally but are saying we are not ourselves under their jurisdiction beyond our official borders . . .
Well, a black slave was considered 3/5 of a person and even still was regarded as sub-human a hundred years after the US Civil War. The American Indians were wiped out and the ones who survived put in ghettos. Japanese-Americans were locked up in "internment camps" in after the US got involved in WWII. Women were not persons, not allowed even vote until the 1920s.
Looks pretty consistent to me.
How many citizens were just arrested for peacefully petitioning Mr. Bush's government?
Torture has been going on for a long time with court stamp in many US prisons. We are a nation where law is routinely abused.
This ruling just underlines that reality one more time again.
Those caught defending their own country during illegal invasions by the USA,
as there is not enough evidence to convict them of anything,
held in a part of Cuba not legally owned by the USA,
as a trick to pretend that the law somehow does not apply,
classified as "suspected terrorists",
and now the USA has somehow "legally" given themselves the right to torture them.
The whole thing is so totally ridiculous. YOU MIGHT AS WELL LAUGH!
It is as ridiculous as all the WMD evidence that we could take as a "given".
Man, this "American Justice" is ...
I am certainly happy all of you can joke around. In the meantime suffering goes on, apparently legally imposed suffering by the US.
It seems that the dark 'humor' is a way to avoid looking at ourselves in the mirror. We elcted these leaders and we allowed them to continue running our country and even relected them to continue their immoral and inhumane policies of war and destruction and human suffering. Even if it is now been established as legal by US law, We need to remember even we as citizens can now expect similar treatment. 1st no more habeus corpus after 700 years and now with the stroke of a brush, legal torture. Especially after any and all dissidents and miscreants are declared non-persons under law.
Very nice, jungleboy.
¿ Can anyone imagine the airport's new version of customs ?
Initially Non-tortureable, but may become terrorists:
Human beings (to the right ==> of course)
Always Tortureable, likely to be terrorists:
Non-Humans ( to the left <==)
The job of a judge is to apply the law to a situation at hand. When a judge decides to ignore the clear letter of the law (eg: to simply invent a meaning for the word 'person'), then they need to be removed by whatever procedures exist to remove them.
I want to hear the Democrat candidates criticise this - I want to hear that they are unequivocally against torture. Not much chance of that, I fear.
the side image, by Tim Sloan, strikes me as a primo protest pic. nice work.
Feel the love. Without it, I don't know what could happen to the world. With it, I know we can work through it.
This too is the BURGERS:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261
Interesting, Jaded Prole. Bagram Air Base and prison in Afghanistan, too, perhaps.
You're so vein, you probably think this blood is about you.
KEM -- I sorry to have shocked you, but I've gone from as you say "To laugh at their vain deeds and vainer thoughts"
All the way to
"… laugh at their vein deeds and veiner (bloodier) thoughts"
Yes, libertas fugit; you might try telling them that you and others are documenting their unresponsiveness on key issues and if they continue to be unresponsive you will work with others to have them removed from office.
As fast as Cheney/Bush can find something under a rock that has a law degree, they are giving them lifetime appointments as judges. This is so the evil that men do lives after them, and with this gang, there is no good to inter with their bones.
Of course, who approves this? The "Democratically" controlled Congress.
If you've ever read some of the government manuals, such as the one on the proper use of civilian forced labor from internment camps, you will see that the United States we oldsters grew up in doesn't even exist anymore.
Of the dozens of queries that I have sent of to my and other alleged representatives of We the People, asking why we cannot have the Constitution and Bill of Rights back in the Halls of Government, intact and functioning, the answers that I have received are zero, zip, nada.
I've asked politely, insultingly, logically. I've even asked them to please explain to me how a fascist government is going to add to our security. No answer. They will send me their form letter answers to all sorts of other questions, but to the above, absolutely nothing.
Other friends and correspondents tell me they have asked the same question to their reps, with the same result.
Do you suppose we are being given a message here?
Oops
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 6:
"Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law."
The UDHR, ratified by the UN in 1948, was pushed vigorously by the United States. This is a sad day when a US court can say that human beings in Guantanamo are not persons.
I guess Jean Kirkpatrick was right when she said the UDHR was just "a letter to Santa Clause."
A terrible decision.
"Until this is done, the USA will remain a pariah among nations." (Malfoyd)
Until this is done, the US of A will be the ANUS of A.
"Since non-Americans are no longer humans, then eating them is no longer cannibalism, right?" (nspire)
grilled onions please
HA ha ha ha ha ha ha HA! HA!
The invasion of Iraq was a crime by one nation against another, not simply a crime by the Bush administration. The USA must:
1. Publicly admit its crime of violating the UN Charter, which prohibits aggression against sovereign states.
2. Ask the UN, without any US participation, to assemble a peacekeeping force to replace US troops within Iraq to assist toward a political solution to the problems caused by the invasion, and to be fully funded by the US.
3. Ask the UN, again without US participation, to assess war reparations against the US for the illegal invasion of Iraq, including compensatin to all individual victims of the crime.
4. Make a commitment to acquiesce to an international task force charged with eliminating all nuclear weapons in the world, and conducting regular inspections to ensure ongoing compliance from all nations
Until this is done, the USA will remain a pariah among nations.
The day of reckoning will be hell to pay for America. You reap what you sow. What goes around comes around. Karma. Cause and effect. Action and reaction. They're all the same.
All for money and power. Or maybe power and money.
Rebel Farmer,
nspire is just as angry as we are. He means no harm and this is a way to vent frustration, by mocking the situation. We're all upset how quickly our nation has degenerated since the 2000 election. It's the herd instinct coupled with what rtdrury said above as well as the others, that has brought us down, along with the hubris of arrogance for the rest of the world.
nspire,
I understand.
Namaste
tailcap nailed it.
we are living in interesting times. times when pathological "monsters" (read corporations) have more rights than human beings, especially if they are Muslim and/or people of color.
Bush-n-Co will probably never face the music. as a matter of fact, the repuglican propaganda machine will spin these tyrannical criminals into heroes of the state and great leaders.
how much longer can the charade last? the US dollar has crashed (not is crashing, has crashed) and it's just a matter of time before the country goes down the drain clinging to the deified corporations w/ their market "solutions", which, of course, aren't really solutions unless you are very wealthy.
They're not "persons?"
What the hell have we let happen to our country?
What a great day in the long and glorious history of the Federal judiciary. Definitely no judicial activism in this ruling, right? I'm just so proud that, even though they're non-persons, they still got their day in court as if they were actually fellow humans! Not that it did them any good, mind you.
So judges now have the power to kick people clean out of the human race! Just like that. With a stroke of a pen, as Reed Walters, the DA in Jena LA, so aptly put it to the black kids at their high school. He pretty much gave them notice that THEY aren't actual Persons, either.
Fortunately Judge Henderson will understand that it was "forseeable" that some of us would be moved to string her up by her thumbs outside the courthouse and pelt her with eggs and rotten tomatoes. Of course, we will be immune from any prosecution, since such torture would clearly be only "incidental" to our role as citizens protecting this great democracy of ours!
nspire: That's kinda sick. Even for sarcasm. Yuck......
I think we start small much like towns in Vermont voting for impeachment.
We need to reach out to people and let them know that this the only option left us. The most powerful way forward is "I have a dream" Positive! We are being given leaders that only know how to lead by fear of the future. We need to lead by the hope in our future! We are so powerful in our numbers we can do so much. I'm not sure we even understand the positive change that could happen. It will be hard but the goal is so much better than our nations goal at the moment.
I think they saw their solution as a way out of their present situation and matbe we need to see it that way as well.
Lasting positive result...Not sure the framers knew how long their government would last but they knew that their present situation would not last.
I'm not sure. But we need to make this idea part of more of our discussions and not some radical idea. Torture being legal is more radical, the lose of the 4th amendment, the lose of habeaus corpus is most radical. We really need to grab a perspective on how broken our government is.
May these judge's find their own despicable and dark encrusted "person-hood" lacking meaning, and through that void of comprehension, voluntarily commit themselves for perpetual abuse and penance, and then beg publicly for the world's forgiveness.
Close Guatanamo NOW!!! Are these people "people" if they are held in detention in the U.S.? What the hell is going on!?!
And what will SCOTUS do with this?
What will the Brits do with this?
What a sorry state our country is in!
Can anyone say "One World Order"?
Muslim prisoners are not people, and torture is to be expected. And Americans don't understand "why they hate us"?
Exactly colleen, but sadly it's not a new development. Blacks used to count for 3/5 of a person.
My guess is that the only reason bush is crying is that Laura finally figured out what is going on with him and Rice.
"How do they get away with this shit?"tailcap
I don't know but it sheds a whole new light on what America stands for and what America is. Human beings are not "persons" because they were not Americans.
And Bush is "crying" over in Israel over events that happened over a half century ago.
Is this still America? How on Earth, and where on Earth, do these people, who have the power to make such decisions come from? This is truly sickening and demoralizing for any decent person, American or not.
Truly Orwellian. Torture is okay because they aren't recognized as persons. Corporations on the other hand are recognized as persons. Perpetual war to bring peace. We destroy the village in order to save it. How do they get away with this shit?
"Circuit ruled that the detainees captured in Afghanistan aren't recognized as "persons" under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act because they were aliens held outside the United States." If you as members of this kangaroo court have ruled that they are not persons, pray tell me, you despicable bastards, what are they? From your disgusting decision, I conclude YOU who judge are no place near what I call human. And the time will come when you will be judged. And may the Universe have mercy on your dark souls; moreso than the mercy you refused these TORTURED PERSONS. And in those reflective times, as you sit there sipping your cognac and smoking your Cuban cigars, may you somehow find a way to forgive yourselves and sleep well. I for one, will never forgive your kind of political decisions and pray you never sleep a wink.
Guess which judges were Repuglicans?
Clearly the inmates are running the asylum.
Osama and his scant score of Saudis are the least of America's troubles. But then, thanks to our Congress, any citizen that points that out may be labled a "home grown terrorist" and tortured to the delight of our black hearted government.
Please wake me when the revolution starts.
The coalition of Zionist/Christian fundamentalists, empire builders, and capitalists in the US have perpetrated their crusade against an Islamic fundamentalist barrier to coalition control over world oil supplies needed to prop up highly unsustainable/destructive "American Way of Life", resulting in numerous catastrophes including a million dead Iraqis/Afghanis, millions of injured, displaced, impoverished and traumatized Iraqis/Afghanis, shredding of the rule of international law and treaties, and shredding of American civil rights, fiscal health, and moral standing.