Why I'm Still Not for Hillary Clinton
Women voters rallied en masse for her -- but she has run as a stereotypical male and represents the same old cowardly Clintonian politics.
In the wake of Hillary Clinton's surprising win Tuesday and all the wrongheaded punditry leading up to it, there has been much discussion about why women voters rallied en masse for her in New Hampshire. Some believe she benefited from a powerful backlash against her many eager naysayers in the media. But whatever the reason for her campaign's resurgence, I still don't buy Clinton as the women's candidate.
I'm a lifelong feminist activist. In this crucial election, I am supporting John Edwards, whose economic policies I think will best serve women. Barack Obama is a close second, with Hillary Clinton a distant third. At first, as a feminist, I felt strange, almost embarrassed not to support Clinton, but it wasn't a tough decision. I did some soul searching, and in the end there were too many issues of principle on which she was willing to compromise. Her commitment to practicality over principle made it hard to be enthusiastic about her candidacy.
At the same time, watching Clinton in Iowa and New Hampshire was a roller-coaster ride -- there were moments when I just wanted to throw in the towel and support her, those flashes of humanity and passion, the confidence she expresses in her record, the reality that she probably is the good person her husband says she is. I imagine her frustration with people like me who sell her short and will not settle for the conventional wisdom of what a woman has to do to get elected and trust her. And then she would frustrate me with her almost absolute inability to understand that being a leader is much more than an exercise in competency; it is the ability to capture people's imaginations and make them believe that there is indeed hope. The low point was her dismissal of Obama's and Edwards' visionary platforms as false hopes. Jung's bad mother wagging her finger at the boys who dared to promise the American people more than they could deliver was too much.
I contrast the closing speeches from New Hampshire: Obama's three words -- "yes, we can" -- and Clinton's heartfelt claim of having found her voice, an unspoken acknowledgment that she had to learn and she learned it. One goes to bed with the feeling that the next six weeks will include a national opportunity for all but the far right to take apart questions of race, gender, class and political integrity. In a way, it is the first 21st century election. Will Obama force Clinton into the new millennium? Can she meet my expectations?
Then her record enters my consciousness: her votes on Iraq, the Patriot Act and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
I wonder if I am, as antifeminists are constantly taunting, one of those women who is jealous of other women? Am I harder on women than on men? After all, the first qualified woman who becomes president is not likely to be everything a feminist would like her to be. Am I just not practical enough to hold my nose and go with a qualified woman? Clinton is to be respected for her intelligence, knowledge of the issues and consistent work for social justice. There is no one best person to be president, and there is no doubt in my mind that, if elected, on most issues she will make good decisions, do the best that can be done in difficult circumstances and, as would Edwards and Obama, work to change some elements of the debacle of the Bush years.
But her approach to Iraq leads me to think she would more quickly and inappropriately use military power than other Democrats, and that is impossible to ignore.
The decision about whom to support is also based on more subtle issues of character, a sense of where the candidates will lead us and how much of a socially transformative vision for America they have. Being a feminist means not only supporting policies that improve women's lives, but that lead to a new understanding of women's and men's nature, identity and role in the world. It means an unrelenting attention to the questions of exclusion and marginalization, and to leveling the playing field. Asking whether Clinton is that person is not just a fair question, it is the feminist question. In answering that question, the history of centrist Democrats and Clintonism must be confronted.
Now, I've never been a centrist Democrat and everything I have seen of Clintonism and the Democratic Leadership Council confirms that women are far down their priority lists. But there must be some small space in the political world in which women are important. It is also not to say that Clinton doesn't care about women -- of course she does, and she has supported and will support many policies that improve women's health, employment and education. Perhaps one hears so little of that commitment on the campaign trail because it is assumed that the woman candidate does not have to talk about those issues. But whatever the reason, there is no evidence that Clinton's feminist history currently influences her thinking about women, or that it is any further advanced than Obama's and Edwards' thinking.
The sad fact is that Clinton has felt compelled to run as a stereotypical male. In her own mind it is only a certain kind of man who is qualified to be president and she will be that man: tough on everything from war, flag burning, kids' access to video games, illegal immigrants and Palestinians. She has missed the opportunity to talk about what it really means for women to be equal in this country. She has shown no interest in using her extensive international experience to push for more women in party leadership, state legislatures and even the Senate. A woman candidate who considered her gender a strength (as opposed to something she needed to overcome) would announce a series of measures specifically designed to ensure that women's needs and rights were at the forefront of her agenda.
For example, she might begin by following the European example and create a Cabinet post on women. In addition to outlining her foreign policy in Foreign Affairs, she might write about women from a thoroughly modern perspective. As important as they are there is nothing new about talking about issues such as violence against women or research on women's health issues or funding family planning at home and abroad. We need a candidate who advocates for the economic benefits that women all over Europe -- and increasingly women in developing countries -- have: better support for the retirement of women who do not work outside the home, paid family and medical leave, expansion of Social Security benefits to spouses (mostly women). And we need a feminist candidate for president who is not afraid of issues such as gay marriage, adoption and America's changing attitudes toward women's sexuality and all sexuality.
When John Edwards stepped up to the podium to concede victory to Barack Obama, he said, "The one thing that is clear here in Iowa is that the status quo lost and change won." I do not want a feminism that is part of the status quo, and so I do not want the first woman president to be a Clintonian. Every time Hillary Clinton puts on the mantle of the Bill Clinton presidency and reminds us of how important it is to be practical and work with the other side to get things done, I think of every cowardly practical choice that Bill Clinton (or should I say the Clintons together) made. The "don't ask, don't tell" sellout of gays in the military; the abandonment of Lani Guinier; a failed healthcare reform package that would have sacrificed women's reproductive health to the Catholic Church's demands as moral arbiter; a welfare reform bill that actually hurt poor women and their families; and presidential approval of a permanent ban on Medicaid funds for poor women seeking abortions.
The women's movement, along with other progressive movements, did little to challenge the Clinton administration to live up to its campaign promises. And now it seems that the longtime women's movement is falling into the same trap over Hillary Clinton's candidacy. Just read the feckless and stale defense of Clinton's record on the war posted on the National Organization for Women's Web site to get a sense of how willing some in the feminist establishment are to defend any woman, regardless of her track record.
But some women aren't buying it. We'd like to see a woman president, but more than anything we want to be able to say at the end of the first woman's tenure in the highest political office that it really mattered. That the first woman president did things no man would have done, that feminist values were at the core of her decisions -- and that the country was on the road to further transformation.
Frances Kissling is a 2007-2008 Fellow at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University and the former president of Catholics for a Free Choice.
Copyright ©2008 Salon Media Group, Inc.
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169 Comments so far
Show Allfemme fatale January 13th, 2008 3:31 pm
I second that. (tailcap January 13th, 2008 6:50 pm)
baby its cold out there, please don't go.
RICHm
Through out the discussions above you display an unusual hatred for Hilliary and lack of respect for anyone who voices support for her. Could it be that you have issues with a girlfriend, wife or your mother perhaps? Because your personal hatred and that of others for Hilliary just may be the type of stubborn, ignorant thinking that ultimately puts a republican back in the Whitehouse. Do you really think Hilliary would support the same nominees for the courts as any of the repub candidates? The fact is a republican win in 08 is a loss for progressives, there will be no constellation points for hating Hilliary.
Your right Jim, and it all comes down to the power of the corporate lobbyists for insurance companies, HMOs, big pharma and all the rest. Wouldn't it be nice if we, the people, had someone representing us too?
EDWARDS '08
I am a 68 year old man, and I would love to have our next president be a woman or a black. I think it is time. It was only after really getting into the health care issue, though, exploring it in depth, and educating myself on what is really going on in supposed health care reform, that I developed a real distaste for Hillary Clinton. Her health care package and plan is an utter sellout to corporate interests and the insurance industry. Meantime, she sells herself as the person who has the scars to show about her battle for health care reform. There was never any such thing. The Clinton's plan years ago would have entrenched even further the insurance industry's hold over health care. To sum it up, I do not like dissembling and lying, and this is where Hillary Clinton really stands. She is a politician, trying to be all things to all people and forces for one purpose alone - that of being elected.
http://www.jimhilgendorf.org
femme fatale January 13th, 2008 3:31 pm
Nobody should be required to only adopt the "correct" position or leave. In my opinion all opinions should be welcome.
The only person that can kick me out of here is the owner of the site. I'm thinking about sending CD some money so good luck kicking me out! And that's the truth!
p.s. Baby please don't go!
RichM: I am as "true" a progressive as anyone here, and I deeply resent your attack. I suggest you try discussing the issues and not fouling the site with your hateful remarks. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a pep rally for your personal opinions. Apparently you think the only people who should be allowed to contribute to this thread are those who agree with you. How sad and what a waste of time. Speaking of which, I've wasted more than enough of mine here.
Good article, and I applaud Ms. Kissling. I too am a feminist and remember people like Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem. But as for Hillary, I do not feel guilty for not voting for her as I don't believe she has one origianal idea on how we should proceed with the war,or how we can stop unemployment, or how we should shelve NAFTA, and countless other pending issues. Name one thing that Hillary stands for and name one thing that she expects to change. She doesn't even have the courage to try to make any drastic changes like supporting universal health care. She is nothing more than a politician and can you imagine at this time any woman being able to work with these backward Arab nations who oppress women, even kill them for ridiculous reasons? I would like to see a strong woman as our next President, but to vote for Clinton does not spell anything but keeping the status quo.
I love living in America for the opportunities it has given me. I came to this country with only the shirt on my back and have done reasonably well. I own my own house...etc. I'm also grateful for the right of free expression; to be able to point out the inequities and unfairnesses that also exist.
I don't need to run around proclaiming that we are the "best there is anywhere on earth." and get out if you don't like it or disagree.
Part of my post wasn't included, here's the rest:
Rich M:
femme fatale January 11th, 2008 11:24 am
Rockerbabe1 January 10th, 2008 2:14 pm
You think you fairly trounced the arguments above for Hillary.
However, I disagree they should be run out of CD. I was once a right-wing, militarist, and a US Marine. I thought any country that dared not bow to US will, needed to be nuked off the map.
It was through arguments (discussions) with my older, more progressive brother that I came to agree that we have no right as Americans to dictate to the world that they do what is in our best interest, regardless of how negatively it affects their own people or die.
Let them stay (supporters of HRC etc.) and perhaps they can be persuaded that a vote for Hillary/Obama is actually a vote for the status quo.
liberal with an attitude January 10th, 2008 2:55 pm
You ridicule those not satisfied with the Democratic, mainstream, corporatist, and militarist candidates for voting for a third party. That logic leads to a downward spiral where every 4 years we vote for an even worse candidates than the last one because at least they are not as bad as Republicans. In my opinion your position is unprincipled.
If your logic is followed through to its logical conclusion then you would vote for Hitler Light over Hitler Heavy Duty (evil of two lessers).
liberal with an attitude January 10th, 2008 3:28 pm
You have no right to tell those of us who complain about the corruption of the current system and choices to ..."exiting for Canada, please get out already and don't let the door hit you on the way out." You sound like a fascist. Screw that!~ I'm not going anywhere!
Last time I checked we still have the right to freedom of expression, and perhaps if you don't like that maybe you should go to another country that doesn't have freedom of expression so you can surround yourself with like-minded people and kick out anyone that dares to disagree.
liberty January 10th, 2008 9:41 pm
Exactly liberty. Why are we the best? God bless America...etc. liberal with an attitude proclaims: "...Just remember as decimated as this country becomes its still the best there is anywhere on earth." How do you know this liberal? How many countries have you been to? Don't display your ignorance so openly. To know how good it is to live in another country you need to at least have visited them.
EVILCRAT???
MikeBinSC (7:42) - That article makes me more likely to support Edwards in the primary, even though he's an Evilcrat.
This one sentence here seems to me to be a strong recommendation for him: "Edwards suffered a blow on Thursday when Massachusetts Democratic Sen. John Kerry snubbed him and endorsed Obama."
- If a contemptible weasel like Kerry is against him, and the corporate elite fear him, and George Will called him the "Trotsky" of this campaign season, he must be doing something right!
snedunuri ( 7:06 pm ) -
Would she have started a disastrous invasion of another country?
- She a) didn't oppose it b) voted for it, & c) keeps voting to fund it. When Bill was prez, she urged the bombing of Kosovo. Bill's administration passed the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which made "regime change in Iraq" official US policy. Furthermore, during Bill's admin, the US imposed sanctions which killed a half million Iraqi civilians, and bombed Iraq several times a week (though it was rarely commented on in the US media).
you're basically asking why (didn't) she act like a dumbass martyr and oppose Bush like one of those straggly haired protestors and completely lose any chance she had with the public and the media...
- Oh, I see. You'll vote for the rightwinger HRC, but you have disdain for "straggly haired protestors." It so happens that most of the US public is opposed to the Iraq War. This was the main reason the public put the Dems back in control of Congress in Nov '06. It is therefore logical to assume that the public would have been delighted with Hillary, if she'd had the courage & principle to stand up for what they obviously want. // The media of course is another story. But the Clinton helped make the media what it is, by passing the Telecom Act of 1996.
Would she have handed out tax cuts to the wealthy? Would she have wrecked every environmenal and health and safety law we have? Would she hand out tax cuts to Big Oil? ...
- She has been quiet as a mouse about all of that stuff -- offering precisely zero in the way of resistance & opposition. Bush is destroying the planet, & this powerful Democrat has said nothing, and done nothing, to stop it.
I would much rather see a Kucinich or Nader in office, but we saw what happened the last time the extremists tried that and we lost the chance to get Gore....
- Ah, the "extremists." I see. Are they friends with the "straggly haired protestors," perchance? It's odd that you have such contempt for those who stand up for what is right, yet you're ready to vote for an utterly unprincipled reactionary like Hillary. At the same time, you say nice things about Kucinich and Nader. // I would say that you're politically somewhat confused. You have some good instincts, but the myth that "Democrats = good; Republicans = bad" is apparently too deeply bred into you, for you to break free of it. // You must admit it's very funny, for you to say you would prefer a Nader, and at the same time call those who voted for him "extremists"!!
US Corporate Elite Fear Candidate Edwards
By Kevin Drawbaugh
Reuters
Check out the article over at TruthOut -
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011108T.shtml
"Bought'n'paid for" and "Barack Obama" - Kinda rhymes doesn't it?
It should, tis true!
And Hillary Too!
VOTE EDWARDS '08 for a WORLD OF CHANGE!
To RichM:
You're asking how HRC would differ from the republicans. Let's start with the obvous. Would she have started a disastrous invasion of another country? Would she have handed out tax cuts to the wealthy? Would she have wrecked every environmenal and health and safety law we have? Would she hand out tax cuts to Big Oil? Read her position on climate change at http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/11/5/93656/3939. Not a single repugnican (with the exception of McCain and he's more of a maverick than a repug) has come out with any kind of position on climate change, let along supporting the 80% reduction we need by 2050.
The things that you are asking why she didn't do - why she didn't stand up to Bush on X and Y, you're basically asking why did she act like a dumbass martyr and oppose Bush like one of those straggly haired protestors and completely lose any chance she had with the public and the media. Its because she's not stupid. She knew that she's make little headway with a tin-eared guy like Bush so she said nothing. It's ridiculous to then infer from her silence that she would actually carry out all those things herself were she in office.
"trying desperately to pick the "lesser evil" between 2 choices that are completely evil"
This is the kind of black and white Libertarian thinking that is no different from the repugnicans own thinking about you're either with us or against us. It ignores the facts, it ignores reality, and serves no good, apart from as one person put it "hastening the fall of America"
Incidentally I'm no great fan of HRC. I would much rather see a Kucinich or Nader in office, but we saw what happened the last time the extremists tried that and we lost the chance to get Gore.
rlc (5:06) "The hatred on this site for Hilliary is very Rove-like and in the long run self-defeating to the progressive cause..."
- First, it's funny you should mention Rove. Hillary herself was responsible for the Clinton's bringing the famously corrupt "advisor" Dick Morris (of FOX News fame, as well as the star of tawdry prostitute scandals) into the White House in the '90's. Morris is exactly Rove's kind of guy -- which means that Hillary has no problem at all with people like that. She would get along well with Rove, just as she got along with Morris.
Second, you write "We need a fighter for the basic democratic ideals. Hilliary is hated...by the right wing conservative nuts. They are the last group Hilliary is interested in placating...."
- Hillary is a right wing conservative Republican in all but name, just like Joe Lieberman. I challenge you (and anyone else preparing themselves to support this miserable harpy) to look at my last short post, a few up from here, and tell us what the difference is between Bush and Hillary, in terms of substantive positions. Hillary is consistently supportive of US militarism, & she's a corporate whore -- just like her husband. Why do you think Rupert Murdoch likes her so much? // So for Hillary, it would not be a case of her not being interested in "placating" the rightwing nuts, because she's already one of them. There's nothing to placate; no real conflict. She already agrees with them.
You use lame formulations like "Hilliary is not the perfect canidate, but for right now, at this point in time, shes the best choice."
- This is how it sounds when a voter feels weak and helpless, & prepares him or herself to sell out once again, trying desperately to pick the "lesser evil" between 2 choices that are completely evil. HRC hasn't stood up to Bush on a single important issue since arriving in the Senate. Bush is a criminal, yet HRC has voiced no serious opposition to him; & on many issues has actually sided with him. How can you let yourself sink to the level of supporting such a distasteful creature?
progressive student-
I'm glad you're here and politically involved, even as my 20-year-old currently non-college student son is. The one who isn't sitting around with his ipod and laptop whining, because he's too busy working 50 hour weeks with no chance of health insurance.
Kudos to you for wanting to know what your government is doing. When I was your age, to my eternal shame, I didn't care.
We need a ruthless conniving bitch!
The hatred on this site for Hilliary is very Rove- like and in the long run self-defeating to the progressive cause.
I guess in my perfect world Dennis Kucinich would be my next president. But that's not the real world we live in right now at this point in history.
I find the most likely democratic nominee will be Hilliary or Barack neither choice fits the progressive mantra well, but its our reality.
But my fear is that Barack being young and more willing to compromise ("bring us together" mantra) with the republicans and independents is NOT what we need right now.
We need a fighter for the basic democratic ideals. Hilliary is hated (mostly contrived) by the right wing conservative nuts. They are the last group Hilliary is interested in placating.
Barack is much more accepting of the right and independents and they to him. Why? Which one of these candidates do think is more likely to stand their ground (not compromise with the conservative right?)
The republican neocons have shifted this country way too far to the right. We need it shifted back closer to the center before compromise.
For the next four to eight years we need a smart, aggressive, person who has good reason not to like or compromise with these people. If that makes Hilliary a bitch, great, that's whom I want on my side. If I were in a court of law with my life on the line (and innocent), of the two, I would want Hilliary representing me I would not want someone to compromise my life away. Barack would be the perfect candidate for the time when the state of the country is more fair and just (more balanced supreme court, for example), but not now. Hilliary is not the perfect canidate but for right now, at this point in time, shes the best choice. We need the fighter, we need the woman the right wing considers the ruthless conniving bitch!
Well said RichM.
judi, you should give yourself a chance to win by voting for John Edwards. If Edwards doesn't win, you're going to get Obama or Hillary anyway, and a brokered convention might not be a bad idea. If Edwards stays in the race and nobody gets a clear majority, all the issues will be on the table.
John Edwards is not in the pocket of Wall Street, but Obama and Clinton are, period. Edwards is also the only one accepting PUBLIC FUNDING for his campaign.
Here is the list of top contributors to Obama -
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.asp?id=N00009638&cycle=2008
And here is the list for Hillary -
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.asp?id=N00000019&cycle=2008
Now, you look at that list and tell me who is bought and paid for by Wall Street. They dont fear Obama and Hillary, they own them! But they do fear John Edwards!
US Corporate Elite Fear Candidate Edwards
By Kevin Drawbaugh
Reuters
Check out the article over at TruthOut -
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011108T.shtml
snedunuri
excellent points.
Hillary "Thatcher" Clinton. No thanks
snedunuri (3:13 pm) - What do you mean "someone who can deal with repugnicans"? That would assume that Hillary is in some meaningful sense "opposed" to Republicans.
Would you care to try spelling out just how she's different from a Republican? She is just as much a supporter of the War on Terror as Republicans. Just as much pro-Israel, pro-Wall St, supportive of the Iraq War & the military-industrial complex, supportive of the various assaults on democratic rights (PATRIOT Act, telecom spying, etc). She has opposed Bush's various power grabs (signing statements, right to torture, etc) just as little as any Republican. She's just as opposed to impeachment as Pelosi (or as any Republican). She's basically Bush in a skirt.
I've been reading the criticism of Hilary here and i think some people are somewhat delusional about what politics is. Lets get something straight here. You're not choosing the next Dalai Lama, you're picking a politician. Someone who can deal with repugnicans and still make headway. Now I have no problem with folks who say they will vote for Edwards or Kucinich, etc. But if they don't get elected to then say that you are simply not going to vote or vote for the Flying Spaghetti Monster (ie the mythical 3rd party) is to hand the reins to the republicans for at least another 4 years, and knowing how things ork in this country most likely another 8. Stop and think if that's what you really want
Hi there TETTI-TATTY, see you are still on my case for some unknown or sensible reason. Hey, don't attempt to put me in the same boat with David there soplist.
Yes, I would very much like to see John Edwards in the White House. He's the only candidate who will actually make decent changes, starting with eleminating lobbying in Washington DC. Promote the Repugs you foolish troll, __ but please do it somewhere else.
IDFAN.
It is not just the exit polls to examine, which are never always accurate either. Look at the major difference of the NH precintes where paper ballots were used, in comparrison to those where the computers COUNTED the votes. The difference is mind boggling. 10 plus 10 did NOT add up to 20. Smelly as a cess "poll".
Like I said, Ms Fuchs, Condi Rice is also "strong, bright, articulate and successful." So by your logic, she would be just as good or better than the equally warmongering corporatist Hillary, right? And Condi is a far better ice skater and pianist!
Well, now. I have had high regard for those who access common dreams. It appears that in his post RichM January 11th, 2008 12:06 pm simply thinks that anyone who would appeal to logic and sentiment is to be discounted. What a shame that the level of discourse he demonstrates is so limited. Must kill him that a strong, bright, articulate, successful woman also is running to be our President.
looks like you also read this mos. mother jones. i saw the article in there too.
Guiliani will be on the radar. I may be wrong, but I believe the Diebold machines will make it so. Too much Karl Rove money behind him. Patrick Healy of the New York Times Wrote last January:
Rudolph W. Giuliani has hired Olsen & Shuvalov, a prominent Texas consulting firm with ties to Karl Rove, to assist his presidential exploratory committee with fundraising, voter outreach, and development of his political message, according to campaign officials.
The hire is part of an expansion of staff and operations that Mr. Giuliani's team plans to announce in the next few weeks. The plans include adding finance officials for the campaign, and more senior staff members to help organize strategy and field work in Iowa, New Hampshire, and elsewhere.
While Mr. Giulaini has tapped a respected Republican strategist, Mike DuHaime, to serve as executive director of his exploratory committee, the team has not expanded as swiftly as those of two potential rivals in 2008, Sen. John McCain of Arizona and former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts.
Indeed, Mr. Giuliani's inner circle is still dominated by people who worked for him at City Hall when he was mayor of New York City, from 1993 to 2001. Some Republicans close to Mr. Giuliani have said that he must build an impressive political operation more quickly if he wants to be taken seriously in the early nominating states.
Mr. Giuliani's timetable for making a final decision on the presidency has been somewhat fluid, but he is expected to make a decision by the spring.
Olsen & Shuvalov is a communications and political strategy firm in Austin, Texas, that grew out of the old Karl Rove & Company direct-mail fmarketing firm. When Mr. Rove joined George W. Bush's presidential campaign in 1999, he sold the assets of his firm to Todd Olsen and another former employee.
Mr. Rove, now
annabelle-
one of the things that helps to stop voting fraud and rigged elections is for there to be a high voter turnout. thats why regardless of apathy, or dissention, or whatever reason that people hate this candidate or that, people need to get out and vote and vote in droves. the more actual votes that there are the harder it is for fraudulent elections to occur, it makes it more difficult for the hackers, or the people that try to disenfranchise voters or any of the many forms of messing with an election.
just a liitle thought:
Isn't it amazing that Clinton's claim to have found her "own voice" is only through stealing the messages of others.
I don't have nearly the dilemma the author has--the mere fact that Clinton is a woman is not the deciding factor considering Clinton uses that only for votes--not to offer any leadership shaped by that fact. instead she is a good old boy with the best of the lot.
But it is an exceptional article.
Old Badger Too-
I used to think I was a feminist. I used to think I was alot of things. But to define terms like feminist or misogynist or bigot and set them in opposition, makes them polar opposites and neither being free of guilt. There isnt anything positive that comes out of flag waving for any particular side just the satifaction for ones own ego.
Here's my ideal world. Blacks, whites, etc, gays, lesbians, etc., men, women, all being judged not by any specific roles, but only as individuals. as human beings.
a true patriot-
not sure where you're coming from. Guilliani isnt even on the radar. maybe the fix is in, but it will be a dem winner.
i usually like Gore Vidal. But if you want to go underground on this one then I would say that democracy died with the assasignation of JFK.
Rich M-
with thinking like yours I think you should be driven off of CD. Nothing progressive about your thoughts.
I propose that all true progressives here should treat HRC supporters as enemies, and strive forthwith to simply drive them of the CD board entirely. Otherwise, we are going to just wind up with ludicrious spam, like 2 of the last several posts here.
Note the logic used by the HRC flunky "oamfuchs" (10:12 am). She appeals to "the gaze of yet unborn girls who would ask, "If not now, When....blah blah." By this logic, we should all vote for Condi Rice for president, and thus gratify not only unborn girls, but unborn blacks as well. That would obviously be even better, right? I mean, as long as positions on issues have nothing to do with it...
And after all, Hillary's politics are not meaningfully different from Condi's. It would be hard to find the slightest evidence that Hillary has served Bush any less loyally than Condi has.
OLD BADGER TOO: You are very wise! Thank you for sharing a profound insight (I happen to agree with).
As Gore Vidal said Democracy died in Iowa. New Hampshire was rigged. The present administration will put in Hillary Clinton and Rudy Guilliani as candidates and Rudy will win. It's a done deal. Our democracy has been handed over to a company that was founded and run by convicted criminals whose machines spit out the winners that have been bought and paid for. Check out www.bradblog.com. It doesn't matter who you support or scream and curse whose better. It's been chosen for us. Please inform me -- when has a coup d'etat ever been elected out.
I've noticed an interesting contradiction several times in this thread and in general among progressives who have decided to support Obama because of his promise to end devisiveness and partisan politics and to promote unity. (Bush promised that, by the way, remember "The Great Uniter"?) What that means is a lot more of what so many of you seem to hate so much: compromise, a.k.a. "selling out." It's how legislation actually gets passed--I'll vote for this but only if you include that, and so on. That means, whatever Obama's personal beliefs and values, he advocates moving toward the (perhaps mythical) "center," the mushy middle of a population that is sharply divided. I'm not saying whether that's good or bad, only that it seems to be a concept most progressives (myself included) aren't particularly comfortable with. We want to elect people who clearly support our beliefs and who will fight for them. Problem is, then nothing gets done. One thing Hillary Clinton rocks at is working within the political process as it stands. It's what you hate her for--that "practicality over principle"--but it may come in handy when it comes to finally getting some version of nationalized healthcare. Wouldn't it be great if we could just vote for the programs themselves and not have to go through all this? Eventually, if we keep talking about it and working toward it, maybe we'll have direct democracy in this country (if we're still here in a hundred years), and passing legislation may be a matter of each of us casting a vote. But even then, the country may be as sharply divided as it is now, with nearly half of us angry with what the other half voted for. One thing that would help a lot, right now, would be for us to stop calling each other wrong and bad for having opposing opinions. We're not idiots. We're not bad people. We just have different perspectives. I've been really sure and really wrong countless times--I'm sure a whole bunch of you think I am right now.
progressive student-
you miss my point, the 20-30's may not be running the conglomerates, but arent doing a damn thing to stop them either. for all of the complaining by the 20-30's i have never seen a lazier more self serving bunch.
liberty-
you miss my point, i didnt say we're better, i said the country, i e its resources are better. my son couldnt get better attention for his autism any better than whats found in NJ anywhere in the world. Speaks pretty well for the Garden State doesnt it. As well as NJ having the best schools in the country...
I find it puzzling that our viable, passionate, woman candidate, Hillary Rodham Clinton, has to prove to you in advance that she is your kind of woman, before you can support her. Her life is a living testimony to her support of women and women's concerns. I, too, was a follower of John Edwards before the primary season began. But, on January 20, 2007, when Hillary looked in the camera's and my eyes and asked "I'm in it to win it; Won't you Help Me!" I felt the eyes of history and the gaze of yet unborn girls who would ask, "If not now, When. If not her, Who." Hillary is exactly the woman for this job and the fact that she has had to make compromises to arrive at this spot in history is not a surprise to any woman who has had to make her way to the top in a man's world. I ask every voter who would have the best qualified candidate, one who IS Ready to Lead, take the helm of our Country on January 20, 2009, to support Hillary. And, you may join us at Team Hillary Kentucky or by email to me at oamfuchs@aye.net. Best, Olivia Anne Morris Fuchs, Team Hillary Kentucky Moderator
It's preferable to have a real Republican in the White House to a phony one like Hillary and Obama, or Edwards.
The problem with having a fake Republican for president is that gullible voters like Daniel David and Kem Patrick believe they are honest representatives of the people. The same way they were fooled by Pelosi, Reid and the entire congress who deceived them in 2006.
Real progressives either vote 3rd party or Republican in order to expose Democrats for what they are: corrupt corporate whores and usurpers of the US Constitution.
What a worthless article, it says nothing of importance, I learn nothing here, why was it printed? and what is Catholics for free choice anyway? pro-abortion Catholics? Isn't that contradictory? at the least hypocritical? If you're a catholic (and I used to be one) you should be anti-abortion or stop being a catholic. As for Clinton she never came out publicly against her husband's war crimes in Iraq that starved and killed with disease over half a million Iraqi children, (sanctions were not necessary to contain Saddam Hussein that was a crock of lies) she never condemned the bombing of the pharmeceutical factory in Sudan which supplied half of Sudan's medicine, etc...silence equals complicity, she lost my vote a long time ago. As for Obama and Edwards they don't realise (or lie like hypocrits) that a President is powerless against the Corporate crime,corruption and lobbies only Congress can fight that and the corporate lobbies control Congress, until the American people replace Congress with a bunch of Kucinch types no President can fight corporate lobbies its impossible.
WHY HISPANICS SHOULD NOT BE FOR HILLARY
Hillary does not understand that our issues are the same as those of the majority of the population of this country. She recently went into Nevada and made a reference to guacamole and chips?????? as an example of togetherness. Give us a break Hillary. You many not know much about us, but you could have done a little homework. You could have talked about the home mortgage situation which has affected minorities disproportionately, or you could have talked about taxes which affect the working people, again, disproportionately, and of course, you could have mentioned making a college education a reachable goal for our children, and ending this war and bringing our troops home, again, because Hispanics are seeing their young men (and women) go to Iraq in disproportionate numbers to our numbers in the general population. But instead, you reached for some stupid way of telling the Hispanics that you are thinking about us.
That is why I am working for John Edwards, no matter what the media is doing to hurt his chances of getting the nomination.
Obama would do well to let us Hispanics know how we would fare under his leadership; we already know that Oprah thinks only in Black and White.
The worst senario: With the country so divided, Democrat vs. Republican, left wing vs. right wing, and each party equally as divided it would not be surprizing to see many would be voters simply not voting. In addition with the added feature of voter fraud one wonders whether or not their vote will even be counted accurately. Until there is serious election reforms including public financing we will continue to face the endurance campaigns of the independently wealthy, corporate choices to vote for, not the candidate who may be the most qualified. Each campaign gets dirtier, more and more money is spent and in the end we are not even sure how the winner won. The corporate community has the financing to insure that their interests are protected. The voting public does not share in protecting their interests, all of which have been mentioned above.
"the first woman president did things no man would have done, that feminist values were at the core of her decisions — and that the country was on the road to further transformation." Indeed. I am sick and tired of the triumphs of feminism being presented entirely in male terms. Look, we can have a Commander in Chief who is just as tough, ruthless and militaristic as a man - watch her send in the marines. Look, we can have a woman hero who kills just as viciously as men (and with a "feral smile) and treats other women in just the same way too (see the lesbian heroines who marry their more femme partners and treat them as men treat wives). Alteratively we get women who glory in a sexual identity crafted to radiate availability, primarily to men. So raunch culture decks out all who subscribe to it as prostitutes and proclaim this to be a liberation. We need women able to define themselves in their own terms, not ones imposed on us by millennia of male domination. Hillary hasn't found that voice, that's for sure.
From one of Molly Irvins columns that seems appropriate now:
May I remind you what this election is about? Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, unprecedented presidential powers, unmatched incompetence, unparalleled corruption, unwarranted eavesdropping, Katrina, Enron, Halliburton, global warming, Cheney's secret energy task force, record oil company profits, $3 gasoline, FEMA, the Supreme Court, Diebold, Florida in 2000, Ohio in 2004, Terri Schiavo, stem cell research, golden parachutes, shrunken pensions, unavailable and expensive health care, habeas corpus, no weapons of mass destruction, sacrificed soldiers and Iraqi civilians, wasted billions, Taliban resurgence, expiration of the assault weapons ban, North Korea, Iran, intelligent design, swift boat hit squads, and on and on.
This election is about that, but much more -- it's about honor, dignity and comity in this country. It's about the Constitution, which gives us this great nation. Bush ran on a pledge of "restoring honor and integrity" to the White House. Instead, he brought us Tom DeLay, Roy Blunt, Katherine Harris, John Doolittle, Jerry Lewis, Richard Pombo, Mark Foley, Dennis Hastert, David Safavian, Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, Karl Rove and an illegal and immoral war in Iraq. People, it's up to you.
EDWARDS 2008
My sentiments exactly octotroph, if Edwards doesn't win, you're going to get either Obama or Clinton anyway, no real difference between them, so why not give yourself a chance to win and
Vote EDWARDS '08 for a World of Change!
Folks, I don't understand a lot of the thinking here. Why do we care about Bill Clinton's sexual rompings? How does that make Hillary less capable to be president? How can one be "turned off" of a candidate because of a song on a website? It seems to me that our main concern should be getting our country back from the evil leaders that now have a tight grip on it. If you follow the money you will find what candidate(s) have been bought and paid for, what candidates get most of the air time (money again). My choice is Edwards. The only hope we have left for taking our country back.
To all the Deibold theorists…please read this post!
There are absolutely ZERO exit polls that showed anything different than the final tally!
The polls that showed Obama up were taken over the weekend (the final one was conducted on Sunday). The exit polls alligned number for number with the final tally. This is completely different from what happened in Ohio in '04 where the computer numbers did not allign with the exit polls. Please folks, don't create issues where they don't exist. New Hampshire voters are famous for last minute decisions. In fact, almost 20% of voters made up their mind that day.
On a seperate note, the idea that Hilary knew that exact questions would be the perfect chance to show emotion…which would then elicit sympathy…which would then turn the election…holds zero water. Believe it or know she is a member of the human species, which means, she along with everyone else on this earth is capable of feeling overwhelmed at times.
Again, there is not ONE exit poll taken that shows numbers any different than the final results. The time to question results is when exit polls (where people report how they DID vote, not how they are PLANNING to vote) do not align with reported figures.
The "top" three Demok prez candidates are capitalist puppets. But if Edwards pledged to repeal corporate personhood he might be worthy of a progressive vote.
Her commitment to practicality over principle made it hard to be enthusiastic about her candidacy.
Inadvertently or not, the author is doing the people a disservice with this message. We all know that the people's politics are progressive, far more progressive than the three capitalist puppets. The puppets are not being practical. The puppets are being whipped by capital. Stop swallowing the opiates, people.
Femme Fatale, we don't need a woman, a black man, a white man, a uniter, a smooth talker or a negotiater as president, what WE NEED is a FIGHTER, and Edwards is a fighter. He has been knocking the chip off the shoulder of corporate America since he got out of law school, and they're afraid to get in the ring with him or even talk about it.
The only way to take power from these bastards is to beat it out of them, and that is what John Edwards is all about!
EDWARDS '08
Which three are you referring to?
el bravo, you forgot hillary no sabe decir NO a AIPAC. and if she knew how to say NO to AIPAC she wouldn't even have become senator of new york.
as president she will have to attack iran if she wants to stay in AIPAC's good graces.
i would feel sorry for her if i didn't feel so much more sorry for the rest of us at the thought of her getting elected.
The right really shouldn't hate Hillary so much. Granted, she speaks like a liberal.... BUT it ends at words
-She will keep the US in Iraq, with at least Pre-surge level troops, 130,000.
-She has already positioned herself as pro-war and "tough" on Iran as Bush is. Including her approval of pre-emption. I'm not sure, but I think she agreed with Bush deeming the rev guard a terrorist organization.
-She has already said she will continue funding and building the military.
-She won't join the ICC.
-Her Health Insurance "plan" is a handout to Health Insurance Corperations.
- She will continue domestic spying surveillance of American citizens. Amongst other programs.
-She will continue the use of torture.
-She will be secrative and as marketing as the current admin.
-Abortion - left it to the states.
-Gay Marriage - left it to the states.
-And despite her pandering to the middle class, she, like every other canidate, will represent business interests ultimately.
Look at her now, these are positions that she's taking while in the Primary! Imagine during the General election. And if all things are equal on immigration, ie nothing will be done, she's the perfect canidate for Republicans.
And all things being equal.
But the sad thing is the Obama lovers can't see how clear it is that he is Hillary behind a banner of Orratory and rhetoric. Basically, he's Hillary, but better at saying "Change." Yet his positions and "plans" sound exactly like more of the same.
"In the wake of Hillary Clinton's surprising win Tuesday and all the wrongheaded punditry leading up to it ..."
Hillary won only among the subset of voters who voted by machine. Among voters who voted by hand (not machine), Obama received 38.7% and Clinton 34.7%, in statistical agreement with virtually all expert polling predictions right up to the eve of the voting, according to the numbers reported below:
http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS
That is, it was not all voters in New Hampshire that confounded the polls in an unprecedented manner. It was only that subset of voters voting by machines who inexplicably differed from the polls (and from their fellow citizens who voted by hand).
Nothing to see here, move on along...
Took this from another article in CD.Tony
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Published on Thursday, January 10, 2008 by CommonDreams.org
Who Is Killing the Women of Basra?
by Yifat Susskind
In Basra, Iraq's second largest city, 2008 was ushered in with an announcement of the 2007 death toll of women targeted by Islamist militias. City officials reported on December 31 that 133 women were killed and mutilated last year, their bodies dumped in trash bins with notes warning others against "violating Islamic teachings…" But ambulance drivers who are hired to troll the city streets in the early mornings to collect the bodies confirm what most residents believe: the actual numbers are much higher.
The killers' leaflets are not very original. They usually accuse the women of being prostitutes or adulterers. But those murdered are more likely to be doctors, professors, or journalists. We know this because activists from the Organization of Women's Freedom in Iraq (OWFI) have taken on the gruesome task of visiting city morgues to try and determine the scale and pattern of the killings. According to OWFI, most of the women who have been murdered "are PhD holders, professionals, activists, and office workers."
Their crime is not "promiscuity," but rather opposition to the transformation of Iraq into an Islamist state. That bloody transition has been the main political trend under US occupation. It's no secret who is killing the women of Basra. Shiite political forces empowered by the US invasion have been terrorizing women there since 2003. Within weeks of the invasion, these groups established "Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice" squads, which many Iraqis refer to simply as "misery gangs." They began by patrolling the streets, harassing and sometimes beating women who did not dress or behave to their liking. Coalition forces did nothing to stop them, and soon the militias escalated their violence to torturing and assassinating anyone who they saw as an obstacle to turning Iraq into an Islamist state.
The Culture Card
Despite the clearly political nature of these killings, US media generally portray violence against Iraqi women as an unfortunate part of Arab or Muslim "culture." For instance, journalist Kay S. Hymowitz has catalogued the "inventory of brutality" committed by men in the "Muslim world," railing against "the savage fundamentalist Muslim oppression of women." Hymowitz echoes a commonly held assumption, namely that gender-based violence, when committed in the Middle East, derives from Islam.
Of course, pinning violence against women on Islam is politically useful: it helps to dehumanize Muslims and justify US intervention in their countries. It also deflects attention from the many ways that US policy has ignored and enabled violence against the women of Iraq (like championing political leaders with an openly-stated intent to unravel women's legal rights). But in fact, culture alone explains very little. All human behavior has cultural dimensions, but culture is merely a context, not a cause or a useful explanation for violence, whether in Iraq or anywhere else.
It makes much more sense to examine gender-a system of power relations whose number one enforcement mechanism is recourse to violence against women. There is nothing "Muslim" about that system, except that its Muslim proponents, like their Jewish, Christian, and Hindu counterparts, use culture and religion to rationalize women's subjugation.
In fact, shifting the focus from culture to gender reveals a system of power that is nearly universal. Yanar Mohammed, the founder of OWFI, describes this year's killings of women in Basra as a campaign "to restrain women into the domestic domain and end all female participation in the social and political scene." Compare her comment to Amnesty International's conclusion about the ongoing mass killings of women in Guatemala. According to Amnesty, that wave of violence, "carries with it a perverse message: women should abandon the public space they have won at much personal and social effort and shut themselves back up in the private world, abandoning their essential role in national development." This certainly captures the intent of Iraq's Islamists, who have little in common with the killers of women in Guatemala, other than a rigid adherence to a gendered system of power.
Instead of lamenting the "brutality" of Islam, the US media should start connecting the dots between the US occupation and the empowerment of people who use violence against women as a strategy to pursue their political agenda. We can start with the fact that the Pentagon has trained, armed, and funded the very militias that are killing the women of Basra.
Yifat Susskind is MADRE Communications Director.
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22 Comments so far
Demerara January 10th, 2008 12:16 pm
The Pentagon wants a weak Iraq which will help delay a troop withdrawal. Killing skilled Iraqis will leave voids and a dependency on external help that is inline with current US administration policies.
Why would you expect the fox to care for the 'hens'?
Jim Glover January 10th, 2008 12:42 pm
The longer this occupation lasts, and other war crimes, the more the world becomes immune to tragedy and is infected with Outrage Fatigue.
That could be the small print on the Bush Plan for full spectrum dominance that the Congress has not bothered to see or do anything about.
If ending this is part of Obama's "Yes We Can", What a beautiful Day!
Wining War in this New Age is Ending War.
.
Rockerbabe1 January 10th, 2008 1:19 pm
So what else is new? Dubba and his mafia really do not care about women, unless they are attached to an oil well. Islam and middle eastern culture is just the latest excuse for debasing women and their effort to improve their lot in life and that of their children.
militantliberal January 10th, 2008 1:31 pm
Islamic texts are very specific in their subordination of women, such as the Quran at 4:3 (polygamy, sexual slavery) and 4:34 (husband's right to beat wife if she disobeys). In Kabul under the Taliban and in Iran during the Islamic Revolution male militiamen presumed to beat women for protesting or merely failing to cover their heads and bodies. But serial killing is truly an "innovation", not part of traditional practice.
I've never taken the newfound feminism of "war on terror" enthusiasts seriously. If they really cared, they would have sponsored female militias to put down the woman-beaters.
Juliann January 10th, 2008 1:58 pm
The entire WORLD needs to discuss the continuation and escalation of violence against women. As a gender, males are dangerous to society, most immediately to women and children. Why are we not talking about this?
Stilba January 10th, 2008 2:23 pm
Juliann: "The entire WORLD needs to discuss the continuation and escalation of violence against women. As a gender, males are dangerous to society, most immediately to women and children. Why are we not talking about this?"
Because it's f*cking crazy, sexist, simplistic, and paranoid, for starters.
Daniel David January 10th, 2008 2:38 pm
The idea of some guys beating on (or killing) the sisters, mothers, grandmothers, daughters, wives or future wives of other men is enough to make some of us Westerners feel sick, then very mad. A culture of "religion" that teaches this is not only okay, but that supporting the brotherhood of Muslim men is more important than actually loving and protecting the ladies has missed any reasonable interpretation of the "will" of any God whatsoever, including the one that radical Muslim clerics pretend to serve.
It's a shame if the U.S. actions have been enabling of some more mis-guided men's cruelty against women. It's more of a shame if there are not enough men in Iraq or other Muslim places who themselves have the fortitude to stand up against their self-righteous brothers and say clearly: "Wrong is wrong, whether you guys justify it from your reading of the Quran or not. Stop it. Otherwise, we shall assume you are not proper men."
I guess I'm lucky to live in America where we can say such things. They'd kill me there for it, and that's the problem with much of Islam (literaly meaning "submission") and the places where it has taken over. They'd kill you if you don't buy it.
ZeroPointField January 10th, 2008 2:46 pm
Those who give into their Barbaric strains too easily are the ones who are uncivilized.
George Bush et al are cavemen.
Juliann January 10th, 2008 3:54 pm
Daniel David - you seem to believe this is only being carried out by Muslim men. Do you not read newspapers in oh say ANY American city - or CNN online - to read how many American women are brutalized by the men in their lives - or total strangers?
One more comment - about how this just isn't taken seriously in this world - is how few people have commented on this article.
Not many people really care.
dcbeltway January 10th, 2008 3:59 pm
I'm not fan of Sadaam as he oppressed his own people as far as political rights but I will say that under Sadaam women had plenty of rights, were highly skilled and educated, had the freedom of whether or not to veil, and were doing really well for themselves. Since the occupation women have lost all of that. Under King Zahir Shah, the old King of Afghanistan, this was also true at least until the Russians showed up along with the CIA/Saudi contigent. Perhaps if we left the peoples of the region the hell alone they would modernize and reform and liberate themselves? Seems to me like the west makes things worse.
But its always easier for some to blame Islam it suits their imperial purposes.
Daniel David January 10th, 2008 4:09 pm
Juliann,
Yes, I'm aware that violence against women can happen anywhere, and does happen too much in America, too. I was just sticking with the theme of the article being about Iraq and women being killed there by empowered Shiites and other radicals because of a belief system.
I believe a lot of our American domestic violence and sex offenses are serious, but from a somewhat different root.
Stilba January 10th, 2008 4:38 pm
Juliann: "Do you not read newspapers in oh say ANY American city - or CNN online - to read how many American women are brutalized by the men in their lives - or total strangers?
One more comment - about how this just isn't taken seriously in this world - is how few people have commented on this article.
Not many people really care."
Yes, a tiny minority of men are brutes …so let's get rid of all the men! But wait, a much smaller minority of women are also brutes …better wipe them out too! Presto, no more barbarism anywhere! Isn't that what you're really getting at?
GraemeF January 10th, 2008 5:33 pm
Indonesia has an enormous population that follows Islam but you don't hear reports of that sort of behavior there.
Afghanistan under the commies wasn't that bad for the women either.
In times of war and stress the most powerful and violent rise to the top instead of the quiet and thoughtful scholars. While war is promoted to solve one problem it always creates many more in the vacuum it creates in the hierarchy.
bligh January 10th, 2008 6:07 pm
These women are killed and left with notes that say that say they were killed for "violating Islamic teachings". To then say that the deaths have nothing to do with Islam seems rather disingenuous to me. Why not believe the stated intentions of these guys?
As far as Indonesia is concerned, you don't hear much of this sort of thing going on (except for Chinese women). This does not really prove anything as far as whether Islam is a factor or not. The witch hunts of the seventeenth century didn't involve Italy, eastern Europe, or Russia- all Christian countries. They were a product of, and justified in the name of, Christianity none the less.
andrew.herman January 10th, 2008 6:17 pm
The opiate of the masses to the rescue!
The easiest way to get a puppet government up and running in Iraq is to ethnicly cleanse and divide it into Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish refugee camps (ethnic cities) and then pay really bad Muslims (leaders) to inflict religious oppression on the masses. That way Christians and Jews can blame our need to take over (and occupy) their country on Islam so that we can exploit their $25 trillion in oil reserves with a clean conscience.
The first step is to kill off the educated resistors. This process has been systematically observed since the beginning of the war. Al Qaida always gets the blame, but I'd bet some CIA-related mercenaries are more responsible for this highly selective killing than anyone.
The real reason why the troop surge worked, for example, is because of George W Bush's brilliant new strategy of paying the insurgents to keep watch over their own (ethnic refugee camps)cities.
Whether you like W or not, you have to admit that it's a bold new approach. Who else would have thought to pay off his enemies in the middle of a war? When all you have is a hammer (oil money), every problem begins to look like a nail.
If the truth ever got out that women in Iraq, under Saddam, were among the most modern and liberated in the Arab world…but don't worry, it won't.
andrew.herman January 10th, 2008 6:49 pm
Blame Islam and Christianity for murder and rape?
Please show me where rape and murder are taught in either the Koran or the Bible! That is nonsense!
The truth is the opposite.
Personal pride puffs up our beliefs in politics and nationalism until we are blinded with fear of the evil others. Then our fear leads us into frustration and anger which leads us into lust for power and greed. Finally, we will accept genocide in our name when it has been carefully justified by our selfish beliefs.
There are good and bad people in every place on earth, should we blame the culture? Prevalent religion? Genetics? Or perhaps we should not judge people's hearts at all. We can judge their actions and restrain dangerous people from doing further harm, but general geopolitical warfare kills more people annually than any other human evil.
The great religions of the world, however, teach us to turn away from selfishness, and to temper ourselves, even when wronged! (on 911) Violence is hardly justifiable, usually after much restraint, and only in obvious cases of self-defense.
Spirituality teaches love; while religion teaches self restraint. No religion ever said, "You won't be a good Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu until you go kill people."
However, George W Bush's neoconservative church of oil money sure thinks highly of "America's best & bravest" who sign up for eternal greatness to go kill people in the name of democracy and free market economics.
The worst people on earth are the sissy liberals who are trying to keep Bush from civilizing the world, right?
solutions2 January 10th, 2008 7:22 pm
Read the Bible again….murder and rape are running rampant through it.
Example: In the Book of Judges, chapter 19, the priests who wrote the Bible tell us of a father who offers his virgin daughter to a drunken mob. He has a male guest in his house, a man from the high-caste tribe of the Levites. When a rowdie crowd show up…the father says "Behold, here is my daughter, a maiden and his guest's concubine; them I will bring out now and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you, but unto this man do not so vile a thing"
Hmmm, wouldn't you love that be your DAD? AH…but as it is, in 2008….many do–not just in Iraq…but in the US too.
By the time the Bible or the Koran were written the world was already well under the thumb of a "dominator story"…it crossed all cultures and lives in every country today. This has to change.
Riane Eisler in her two books: The Chalice and the Blade
and her newest, Real Wealth of Nations…creating a caring economics helps make 'visible' the invisible dominator story that is playing in our homes, our communities, our businesses…the world.
www.realwealtheconomy.com www.rianeeisler.com
Siouxrose January 10th, 2008 7:49 pm
JULIANN: You raised a very important issue. Shame on Stilba for shownng such smug disregard for a very real and dangerous sexist component of many societies. It's interesting that this issue regarding violence against women, especially potentially influential women in Iraq, is posted when Hillary is in the news, and CD discusses the potential sexist implications of her campaign (pro and con).
What's very clear is that when a society is occupied, and the men feel a loss of power, they rely on sexism to feel superior to someone else. (Racism erupts from a similar context.)
Today when I went biking I had a lyrical thought, that if every man lifted the woman in his life to her rightful status, instead of treading on her feelings and rights (yes, there's been some progress, hardly enough), we might see EARTH MOTHER shift. The way nature (the great Mother is treated) directly bears upon the way women are treated. The US is very violent towards women. Rape rates are insane, domestic abuse unbelievable, and quite a bit of domestic violence (including rape of female offspring) goes unreported.
Until BOTH genders are equally honored, the world will shake on its asymmetric course. Pretending that women have won full equality, especially today as a burgeoning Christian Theocratic movement demands that women "become submissive to their husbands" is just another inconvenient truth, experienced too often as its inversion.
jungleboy January 10th, 2008 10:42 pm
Siouxrose - Dcbeltway You rock! The inconvenient truth is that our society is teaching very few morals by example alone. I see we have laws but the blackwater doesn't, we are (in the US)equal, male and female, but wages don't show it, your religions don't show it, leadership doesn't show it, your dress doesn't show it. What is expected from this? Women are the force behind everything that happens in the world. Women were here first, telling you its O.K. when you where young.
To even slightly believe in the handout these killers leave is the biggest joke of all! To place religion in it at all is a joke. Its probably done by all the blackwater guards or dyncorp who is the biggest in the slave trade if you research the court papers, looking after all the bigwig politicos. I'll bet it scares the husbands and wives of all the other educated folk into hiding and not doing or saying a thing. It might leave all the rest of the country to the hands of the white christian slaveholders like Bushco and such from south carolina i.e eric prince. Ask your local service men home for a minute from iraq if he has seen the rape trading cards that are going around by the thousands to our boys in uniform. Did I say I hate the way this country has done business illegitimately? HATE.
medusa January 10th, 2008 10:51 pm
ANDREW.HERMAN
Read your bible. No, really read it, not just pick gooey quotes out of context. It even glorifies genocide.
Raster January 10th, 2008 10:52 pm
"The great religions of the world…" Talk about an oxymoron. I'm ready for the Middle East desert religions–Christianity, Islam, Judism–to fade into obscurity where they belong, joining Zues, Apollo, Mithras and all the other "gods" that have seen their days come and go. Religion truly is the opiate of the masses, and it's time the human race go into religious detox and humanistic recovery. If the human race is to survive and thrive for another 1000 years, it must rid itself of its fascination with theological mumbo-jumbo.
snydly January 10th, 2008 10:54 pm
The corporatists will kill any Iraqi who opposes the rule of the oiligarchy. That the US policy makers directly abet this is criminal, sad, low and a debasing of the sacrifices of generations of honorable veterans.
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EL BRAVO HA DICHO: It seems to me that this lady is correct in large part in this analysis. Unfortunately, Clinton lacks the backbone to really confront the problems in our country, the US. Clinton has made herself part of the problem with her position on the war in Iraq, she cannot say no to President Bush; she cannot say no to the corporations. I think, although he may not be perfect, that Edwards is more appropriate for the minorities.
!Si', El Bravo, has dicho la verdad!
And anyway, everything la Clinton has been involved with since her school days has been by, with, about thanks to, and for Republican organizations. How she can call herself a Democrat is the 8th wonder of the world. The 9th being the incredibly short memory of the people. (Orwell said, way back, it's about 2 weeks. You can tell us one thing and two weeks the opposite and the people won't remember.)
That tear filled quiet talk she gave Monday was scripted from the brief speech John Edwards gave during the debate. It is PERSONAL, he had said and told why, before Obama rudely interrupted him as he was finishng his short answer. Clinton took notes during that Edwards disartation. She almost repeated his talk, word for word. She's not stupid.
Hi CO-MARK. That speech Obama gave today was fantastic. He didn't say anything of substance. It was the best POLITICAL speech I have ever heard. He had the large croud prepared to fly if he had asked them to.
He is good, great, and very articulate, terrific poise and never once glanced at a note. It was absolutely perfect. You're correct, He didn't say anything, but it sounded and looked great.
You know, he's prepared, a Harvord grad and intelligent to boot. Whichever one the Republicans want will be the winner of the primary and then they'll start to destroy him or her. Then Diebold will count the votes in the general election, things will stay the same and the sheep will post comments at common Dreams, pisss and moan and Kucinich and Nader will be hot topics. ___ If there is an election and we are still free.
"Personally I think it will work Obama/Edwards"
No Way it should be-------Clinton/Obama at least for the first 8 years. Then Obama/?
Bottom line.
Liberal with Attitude said: Just remember as decimated as this country becomes its still the best there is anywhere on earth.
Its this whole idea of American exceptionalism and that we are "better" than anyone else that has gotten us into trouble time and again. Especially when we bring our version of freedom to the so-called heathens in places like Iraq.
The most important reason not to vote for Hillary, to my thinking, is not so much her abominable positions on war and civil liberties, but her divisiveness. She is, at this point in her career, far more divisive than Bush was at the same stage. We've had 15 years of triangulation, partisan bickering and factionalism, and we've been bullying the rest of the world for far too long with disastrous results. We need someone conciliatory and uniting, and Obama is our best hope. I think Edwards should be tapped immediately as Obama's running mate; adding their support would assure them of the nomination, add geographic and ideological balance to the ticket, and save us from the disaster that Clintonism portends.
Guilt by association...Billy is her worst asset
Changing the color or the gender of those who mis-represent us is not progress!
clyde paige (7:56 pm) - your "analysis" is infantile. Is it really a mystery to you why people hate Hillary? It's because she's a warmonger & a corporatist, much like Bush himself. It's because she has not lifted a finger since arriving in the Senate to oppose Bush's criminal wars, his warrantless spying on Americans, his attacks on civil liberties, & his de facto assumption of dictatorial power. In fact, she has supported him on most of it, either actively or passively.
Your notion that she is the "most qualified" is an entirely feeble point. For example, in the same sense that Hillary is "highly qualified," Condi Rice is "highly qualified" to be Secretary of State; Colin Powell was "highly qualified" for the positions he held, as were Wolfowitz & Rumsfeld. What good has come from their high qualifications? // When you have vicious unprincipled people (like Hillary) in high office, they become even more dangerous, when they are intelligent. Dan Quayle was a dope and a rightwinger -- but he did little harm, precisely because he was a dummy.
Please tell us, if you think she's so great, exactly when she's stood up against Bush on any significant policy issue. (I don't expect you'll respond to this challenge.)
Progressive Student January 10th, 2008 2:26 pm - Your list is about right except you forgot Bu$h the inferior at about 6 billion.
Gravel also took on the cia before with the pentagon papers. I think he is way too tough for American politics where a weak Momma's boy just says he is tough and some people buy it. Like John Wayne (avoided military service) looked tough in movies but Audie Murphy was really tough in a real war.
Kem, you are so right: "None of Congress wants John Edwards...they do not want to have Edwards attempt to eleminate lobbying... the root of all of our most serious problems. Edwards is the only candidate who will fight that problem and he will not have any support from the party, or the press, or the powers who are. Therefore nothing will change..."
I did get a little hope going, though, when I read this further down the thread: "Edwards is the best choice." Why? Because a former NADER voter posted it. (Ralph is one of my heroes though I never voted for him, since it would have given the GOP one more vote.) But could it be that the Naderites -- millions strong -- will wake up to the possibilities Edwards presents before it's too late? After all, Ralph gave John his blessing recently, didn't he? That means a hell of a lot more than Kerry endorsing Obama.
A vote for Edwards or Richardson or Kucinich is really a vote for a Clinton dynasty at this point in time. I participated in the Iowa caucuses 7 days ago and what I saw in my caucus leads me to believe that the hardcore faithful of the church of the Democratic Party of the USA wants Hillary Clinton to be president everyone else I encountered at my caucus, including myself, was willing to support Barak Obama as a shield to protect us from 32 years of consecutive Bush/Reagan, Bush/Reagan, Bush/Quayle, Clinton, Clinton, Bush2, Bush2, Clinton 2 administrations. I have never participated in a caucus in Iowa. 4 years ago I voted for Dennis by voting by mail in Washington State from my home while drinking a cup of coffee, in the privacy of my home, using the internet to determine which candidate I wanted to vote for based on their voting record and endorsements from various progressive institutions. I've lived in this state, Iowa, for 1 year. I am a self-proclaimed political junkie. In November 2006 I was working in N Minnesota and listened to the returns on Minnesota Public radio as congressman Ellison was elected the first Muslim American to the US house. Three months earlier I was living in Madison county Arkansas (a county of 21,000 people in Arkansas where there are fewer then 500 black people in the county). While I was there I had a chance to visit a school that was a local non for profit hippie school created in the 1980's, solar panels and all, that exists because of a grant written by Hillary Clinton (pro bono stuff) while she was Bill's husband when he taught law in Fayetteville before he became the governor of Arkansas (around the time she was on the board of Wal-Mart). The people in Arkansas that I encountered were wistfully proud of the Clintons. Prior to living in Arkansas I spent 6 months in Illinois spending time in the state I grew up in, watching my mother die of cancer. My dad, brother, sister and many of my friends in chicagoland supported Obama in 2004. Why do I bother to mention any of this, only in the sense that as working person I've interacted with a lot of different democratic supporters of all persuasions. Personally I stand by my voting record. Jackson 88, Brown 92, Nader 96, Nader 00, Kucinich 04 (plus Kerry/Edwards for the general in 08, the slimiest ickiest feeling I've ever experienced after they lost the general to Bush). I was a supporter of Kucinich in 2008 and I went to the caucus with the intent of voting for Dennis. Although I had made up my mind 3 days previously to vote for Obama as my second choice (yes us backwards voters in Iowa get IRV, Kucinich 1, Obamma 2). That's 2 days before the Kucinich endorsement. Why? It's obvious Hillary will be the candidate unless Edwards, Obama, Richardson voters unite against Hillary to win the democratic nomination. Otherwise it's Clinton. Clinton is definitely better then Huckabee (yeah I can here it now, hey man they're all bought and sold, hey man the special interests control everything. but lets be real there's potentially 3 supreme court nominees up next time around. You ignore what's happening and carp about it in a few months when Clinton wins the nomination. Or you can stop the bush/Clinton dynasties dead in their tracks and prove to the world that America is a hell of a lot more diverse and engaged then a 2 family dynasty.) But Clinton sucks. I'm sorry Gloria Stienham I think you're wrong. I think Hillary Clinton is not a vote for Hillary the first woman frontrunner for president. It is an extension of Clinton 1, I mean bush 2, or will it be Clinton 2. Remember America the 2006 midterms were essentially a mandate against the war. And of course the congress capitulated. Fiengold, Leahey, Murray, Wellstone – these senators could fucking read newspapers and listen to voters. They understood the voice of the American people and rejected the proposition to go to war. Edwards and Clinton reneged big time. They have no business at the front of the ticket. There so many ways to look at this race. Despite Edwards's rhetoric, Edwards has been running for president for 6 years, although he's been out of office for 4. He's had plenty of time to hone in on a progressive message to present to the electorate before the primaries, he's a trail lawyer remember; he's prepared- good notes. Clinton had never had representitive experience until her NY seat was purchased for her by her husband's operatives. Obama was the editor of the Harvard law review, worked for $13,000 after graduating from Harvard. He represented a mixed community in the Illinois State House (i.e. African American/white) representing Hyde Park the district around the University of Chicago. And as a state legislator for 2 terms he was forced to interact with more conservative people from other parts of the state, which explains his inclusive politics. Obama is a product of being able to make deals, which will give him tremendous support from the republican left. . It's true that his nomination as the democratic candidate for senate in Illinois was a fluke, but voters in the general in Illinois overwhelmingly supported him in his senate bid (Obama being only the 5th African American ever to serve in the US Senate, Carol M- Braun being the 4th).
Anyway I was in this room in Iowa with 92 people, 60/40 women /men -- 80/20 white/African American. I actually live in a city (I know it's hard to believe here in Iowa right??). During the first count there were 1 Biden supporter, 4 Richardson supporters, 12 Edwards supporters and I found 1 other Kucinich voter (yeah Dennis!) every other voter in the room 30 people between 18 and 30 and every African American (about 15 people) supported Obama. As I tried to explain my vision of how I saw the other candidates to my fellow Kucinich voter (I said it simply trial lawyer, constitutional law professor, corporate lawyer) we constantly were being bombarded by Edwards, Obama, Hillary voters seeking our vote. It was a circus environment but in many real ways it was just a reflection of the outside, the media. At one point I listened to a person explain to me how Edwards was being endorsed by Nader (I read Nader's endorsement, M Moore's endorsement, Norm Solomon's endorsement and many of the articles/postings at sites like CD before I voted.) it was odd because I had voted for Nader twice and was holding signs for Nader in the street while this young 18 year old voter (who was 5 when I first supported Nader) was trying to persuade me with endorsements. The other Kucinich voter eventually wandered over to the Clinton corner. 9 of 12 Edwards's supporters went to Obama. 3 of 4. Richardson voters went to Obama. Every African American (15 of 90) was in the Obama Corner as were 4 out of every 5 voters under the age of 30. At one point an Obama supporter read my nametag and said very simply, are you ready to support our candidate. Fuck yeah. I never want to see a single political family (Bushes, Clintons, Kennedy's) exert so much control over the executive branch of government. At the end of the caucus Hillary had 19 votes Obama had 72 votes 2 people choose not to participate. Hillary can be convincingly defeated if the other elements of the party unite with Obama. Biden, Dodd, Richardson have dropped out of the race, as Edwards could do if he doesn't win in SC or in NV. A question I have to posters here at CD is how will you respond to this, as progressives? Personally I have serious issues with Sen. Obama, He's obviously a centrist. But think about this for a second. When FDR won in the 30's. He won with a large mandate that enabled him to put forth progressive legislation (of course communists legitimately point out that these progressive policies successfully prevented real social upheaval in the US). Let's hope Kucinich and Edwards can contribute legitimate ideas to the overall platform of the party. Obama is appealing to dissatisfied Rebublican voters. He has embraced 'independents' (read conservative independents). The test is whether Sen. Obama can use his life experiences as a means to manifest the change he desires. Look it isn't a coincidence that Obama started his campaign in Springfield, the home of Lincoln (a uniter who was one of the most hated people in America). Look at the map of the last presidential election it was solid red from Miami and Corpus Christi to the mason Dixon line. The southern strategy, the strategy of both the democratic (Clinton/Carter - 2 southern senators) and republican parties (remember in 1980 Reagan speaking about states rights in a town in Mississippi where civil rights activist were slain). Obama offers something completely different. A 46 yr old who grew up in post civil rights America, running in the south as a 'moderate' African-American senator. It could 'transform' America as senator Kerry described it. Amy Goodman's interview with Jessie Jackson and discussions of racial presidential politics (we love you Amy) also throw light on this transformation.
Personally I think it will work Obama/Edwards.
So Kissling would rather vote for the most unqualified(Obama) in the field than Hillary and you wonder why this country is going to hell in a hand basket.Why do people hate Hillary so?it doesn't matter that she is the most qualified the hater's won't vote for her no matter what.Well you know the old saying wise people change their mind(as in New Hampshire)and fools never do.Obama would be as big a disaster as George Bush.
The title of this article bugs me: "Why I'm Still Not for Hillary Clinton" - the word STILL suggests that Kissling could be swayed/convinced to move to the Hillary camp if she plays her cards just so in the months ahead. PLEASE DON'T SETTLE! America needs quick, fast, and abrupt changes now...the environment, war in the Middle East, etc., etc...status quo democrats went out in the early 90s with Slick Willy. We don't have time for rhetorical, slow, basically imaginary changes...If only we could have the courage to collectively stand behind Dennis Kucinich...who cares if he doesn't play the sax or guitar.
Kissling rates John Edwards first. I would support Edwards over Obama, but where is Edwards's monetary support coming from? Dennis Kucinich emailed his supporters just before the results of the Iowa vote. He endorsed Obama in the event that he should drop his run for president. He claims that Edwards is receiving money from Wall Street, and therefore, is urging his supports to endorse Obama. Nader (who I highly respect, and wish he would run) praises Edwards. I am surprised at both Kucinich and Nadar. Obama does not seem to want to wind down the military spending in Iraq (which goes against Kucinich's platform), and if Edwards is taking $$ from Wall Street how can Nader "praise" him as he does? I'm confused.
"Can you imagine Hillary getting an unimpeeded chance as Commander in Chief to exercise her well honed skills in dissension and discord while her lying philandering Bill continues to do what he does best: chasing interns and parsing."
It's just this type of mentality that I would VOTE for Hillary. I'm voting for her anyway because I feel that she'll make a good leader. But when someone can't look past those remarks from 8 years ago deserve to have Hillary sitting in the White House to let her know that Rule of Law and the Constitution means more than the past nd the BJ Bill got from a willing intern!
The Democrats, so practiced and skilled at committing political suicide, have apparently blown their collective brains out earlier than at any time in the recent past. Neither of the top two candidates can possibly be elected president. Clinton will lose simply because she's Clinton. Obama cannot be elected because of his race. Edwards, who should be the nominee and is the only one who will get us out of Iraq and do something, anything, about corporate economic enslavement, looks lost in the exhaust cloud of the other two. So welcome to another 4 years of Republican garroting - more useless death in the empire and the further diminishment of the middle class.
I'm wondering why Democrats bend over to please and work with their friends across the aisle while the Republicans bully their way on every issue. Vicious and ruthless Republicans will always put their party first -- before our country. They've been spoiled by the spineless Democrats who allow it to go on. There won't be much change with Clinton or Obama; talk is cheap.
EDWARDS 2008
I thought about supporting John Edwards, until I looked back in his Senate record and found the League of Conservation Voters gave him a score of 17 out of 100 on environmentally friendly votes. Now he says he is 'for' the environment. But Obama and Clinton have scores of 100% earth-friendly votes VS. Edwards' 17% earth-friendly votes.
SO, is Edwards a lying snake speaking with forked tongue? Or a chameleon changing stripes to win, which is a typical lawyer tactic? This fact alone invalidates his candidacy for me. And after all, he did vote For the Iraq War and the Bush War on Humanity, er, Terror (stop war by war, stop terror by terror. War is Peace. Terror is Freedom.) So much for trusting Edwards.
He says he is against corporatism, and then partners up with a Wall Street HEDGE FUND! Is that the populism he means? He wants humility and equality, but he lives in a 26,000 sq-ft. personal mansion with servants. I perceive a dissonance between Edwards' saying and his doing.
Yes, he has fought corporations, but as an ambulance-chasing lawyer. And his settlements never were to dismantle the coporations but to bleed them for himself and his personal clients. He tried to conspire with Clinton to get Kucinich and others tossed out of debates. And then he stabbed Clinton in the back after Iowa and said there are only two candidates left, none of them named Clinton. Is this his version of democracy? And he did not do well in the 2004 debate with Dark Lord Cheney at all. He was way too deferential and cowed when he got down to it. So do his words and actions match up? I do not think so.
And people who are not voting for Obama or Clinton in the General Election are definitely NOT going to vote for Edwards either. He has less going for him in his personal background than Kerry did.
We needed Kucinich, but the MSM has spammed him and canned him. I guess he should have looked the part, like Warren Beatty or George Clooney, to be "taken seriously". So here we are again, voting for the lesser of evils. And as Obama and Clinton are both on the right-wing of the party, with Obama being Mentored by the traitorous Senator from Israel, Lieberman (Likud-Conn.) who was originally backed by that paragon of liberal thought Bill Buckley, what choice is that? Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee. Obama's "can't we all just get along?" sounds like the original "we are the spineless Democrats- we give up and go along- just to get along" theme song. And Hillary of course, has her own baggage, Bill (one black politician quipped that Bill has 'had' more black women than he had.)
So what choice? Now, Only, who will beat the Republican? That is all. And sadly, now, I think out of the pathetic remaining field, that candidate is Hillary. Because women are over 50% of the vote, and there is a tendency for sisterhood voting as shown in New Hampshire, she has a built-in advantage to winning, And the wildcard Obama (wait for the Barak Hussein Osama ads to come) is not-that-much-different in his stand on issues. So simply as the Anti-Republican, AND NOTHING ELSE, I am sullenly, reluctantly, for Clinton. And hopefully, she can surprise us all and be a better president than I expect.
In a way it strikes me as being incredibly narrow to even consider a woman with policies like Hillary's and her husband's, when it is his policies that ushered in a devastating world-wide scourge of so-called Free Trade. We should consider the candidate whose policies make sense not just for the US but for the world. This is very important. It is no longer just a question of what is good for the US. It cannot be solely about that . If people have done any reading about the effect of the IMF, the WTO and the World Bank and agribusiness and water privitization, you know how millions of people around the world have suffered immeasurably from the policies of the world finance organizations. So it is selfish, I think, to vote for a woman because of gender issues when a different candidate (and I think Edwards has the best chance here) has at least a modicum of understanding about the horrible effects of NAFTA and CAFTA and so on.
And, by the way, what is so "Free" about "Free Trade" when you have to bomb a country (Iraq) to smithereens so that you can open that country's markets to your vultures?
The next President is going to inherit a steaming s**tpile of economic catastrophe, and will be a victim of "shoot the messenger" mentality. I'd rather that not be a woman (or a black, for that matter), or we may never have another.
So the Repugs have finally got away with it and managed to install two unelectable candidates as the only folks in the Democratic race. Thank Mr. Murdoch, a heavy contributor to both of them. Expect a Republican in a landslide come November as the Democrats once again ago through their four year annual hara kiri act.
I keep hearing that Edwards would attack 'lobbying'. And then every detail I see sounds like a completely meaningless band-aid that wouldn't solve the problem.
The problem isn't lobbyists. Its our system of campaign finance. That's what gives the lobbyists their power.
If the Widget industry wants to send someone around to Congressional offices to say hello, pass our Christmas cards, and chat a bit about how the Widget industry is important to America, that's great.
The problem is that today that lobbyist also shows up with a bunch of 'bundled' campaign contributions. That's a major incentive to the politician to give the lobbyist what he wants. Even more so because the threat is that if the politician doesn't give the lobbyist what they want, then that big bundle of contributions will start going to an opponent to defeat him.
That's what gives the lobbyists their power. Their ability to make or break campaigns by steering contributions to them or away from them. Go to a system of clean election laws or completely publicly financed elections, and the problem goes away. Then lobbyists are just guys going around handing out Christmas cards.
Typical Evilcrat. Make a big deal about a problem, then refuse to solve it. Instead propose band-aids that sound nice but won't solve the problem.
Kissling: I couldn't agree with you more. And my reason is mainly because of her voting record AND her being a little wishy washy about her plans for us to get out of Iraq. She is a very smart woman, but I don't hear her talking about more peace in the world or corporations dictating our future. She does not have my vote.
"Then her record enters my consciousness: her votes on Iraq, the Patriot Act and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard." From her voting record, I do not trust her judgment.
Obama's energy policy is the status quo on steroids,
the same policy that threatens to wipe out a vast amount of life on Earth.
He advocates for increased coal plants and nukes...
Obama is a Republican with a smile.
That's one thing that Hillary has going for her,
she has a sane energy policy that won't doom our
grandchildren to a destroyed planet.
Good call Ms. Kissling.
Edwards is the best choice and Kerry's endorsement just proves today that Obama is the same old, same old. New bottle, same wine.
This is a race between Barack Obama and John McCain.
The longer Clinton keeps at it, the better for McCain.
liberal with an attitude:
"You mean rich spoiled brat 20 year old college student don't you. and where do you get off "become like our parents and make things worse". you ungrateful spoiled little brat. I'll bet you never had any problem taking their money though did you.
This is it exactly the 20-30 something, do nothing, complain about everything, self important, self indulgent, ipod listening, laptop addicted, text messaging braindead little twirps that are ruining America. I notice most of you didnt even bother to vote in the last election. And for all of your complaining you have had 8 years of Bush and you did what, wait for it, ABSOLUTLEY NOT A DAMN THING.
Your parents that made things worse as you put it, their generation got themselves killed in the 60's marching for civil rights and at Kent State and Chicago.
And by the way your music sucks."
Thanks for that by the way, I guess you've got me all figured out. Addressing your comments (which are so very astute), I'd just like to let you know I've seen you post almost an identical rant about "20-30 something(s)" who are "ruining America." Please recognize these as being horrible generalizations. Do you really think 20-30 year olds are the ones running the conglomerates and big businesses that are ruining the US and world?
P.S.- I actually love Phil Ochs, since hearing him while researching the SDS and the movement of New Left activism from 1962-1969.
So... let's not hate man. I'm sure if a line was drawn in the sand, we'd be on the same side buddy.
If all you want is a 'woman president', then you'd be equally happy with Margaret Thatcher, correct?
--------
"I just saw Obama give a speech in Detroit and it was electrifying, the best political speech I have ever seen or heard"
Ok, but now tell me what he really said. Not the constant polling-tested BS about 'hope' or 'change', but what did he really SAY that is going to change my life?
I find I can listen to an entire Obama speech, think it sounds wonderful, then I stop and realize he never said a damn thing in the real speech. He's worse than Bush about that.
And I really have to wonder about the sanity of the nation who would even think about seriously considering a candidate for President that constantly refuses to tell us what he'd do as President.
Sandra Day O'Connor was the first woman on the Supreme Court; what did she do for women? You would have thought, with her experience being discriminated against, that she would have fought hard for the right of women not to be harassed in the work place. Woman should not have to be subject to "severe and pervasive" harassment before they can obtain relief, and then only marginal relief. Just becuse a woman gets elected, doesn't mean that they are going to help women. Look at Justice Thomas and what he has done for Afro-Americans.
@ liberal with an attitude January 10th, 2008 4:59 pm
I wish I could take credit, but the reference is all Studs T.
..and K. Silverstein. Two excellent examples of the American journalist.
later,
Rob
rob price
i like the john anderson reference. there was the best man for the job that never became president. very similar to bill bradley.
barely human January 10th, 2008 4:48 pm
I automatically take any commenter who addresses the rest of CD's readership with "people" or "folks" less seriously.
what species of being are you?
When Hiliary said that running was very personal for her, that it is our future, our country's and children's future, I felt I was hearing her real voice. Mostly in the words,
"It's personal." Yes, it is very personal for her, it satisfies her gigantic ambition to be the first woman president - she will do anything to get it. I quit Emily's list over their unqualified support for Hillary. I want to support women for office, but not just any woman. Issues are more important than candidate gender. As an old women's libber, I agree with everything Ms. Kissling says in the above article. Elections have to be about more than gender.