MikeBinSC,

Thanks for the info. Greatly appreciated. I'm definitely not voting for any of them.

When will Dennis join the Greens? The Democratic Party dances to the tune of its corporate master. Kucinich doesn't belong.

nader backed edwards. kucinich is my first choice, richardson is my second, and edwards is my third. i wish kucinich had backed edwards.

Well. This comes as a bit of a shock. I would hope that Dennis would push more for his own campaign than start endorsing other candidates so early.

And as for Dennis becoming a Green, while I think that this is where he is more in sync issue-wise with that party, still, his goal is to push the Dems back to where they were so long ago instead of them being the "Republican-Lites" that they've become in recent years.

After all, Bill Clinton wasn't a true Democrat. He was, in essence, a "Republican Lite" centrist. When are the Dems going to quit being so afraid of the Republicans and forge their own path away from centrism and attempts to be just like the other party? What ever happened to the party of FDR, who must be rolling in his grave at the rollbacks of his social safety net programs that he enacted that benefited so many of us?

This doesn't surprise me as Dennis has a personal issue with John. Its too bad he couldn't put the country ahead of his own personal issues. Obama wants to ask corporate America to do the right thing while Edwards will order them to.

SallyUUKent wrote:

"Well. This comes as a bit of a shock. I would hope that Dennis would push more for his own campaign than start endorsing other candidates so early."

So early? The caucus is the day after tomorrow... This was not an endorsement of Obama for President. This was a request that his supporters back Obama in the Iowa caucus should he not get the 15% of votes needed the first time around to continue to the end...

I'm not sure what personal issues he would have with Edwards, but I am about split 50/50 in support between Edwards and Obama (if Dennis can't be the nominee), so his support for either of them does not make me feel like he is not putting the country ahead of his own issues...

If he had come along and advised them to vote for Clinton.... I would have had a problem with that one...

geez,another man done gone.if dennis was all he seemed to be,he shouda recommended we should all vote for bugs bunny.no,it seems they all want us to believe our votes really count and we should all back the"company"men and women.

Nothing makes sense!!!
EVERYBODY is Human, We all make mistakes, Ralph backs Edwards and Dennis backs Obama???
What is it that makes people do what they do????
Personality and Personal relationships....we are all human.
Happy new year, welcome to the unchanged future.

one hour ago my cd website featured a story by cindy sheehan,it has disappeared.anybody else see it ?and is it still there on your site ?

They are not backing anyone. This is how caucuses work. You vote your first choice, and then your second choice if your first choice isn't viable. I suppose if you wanted you could just go home if your first choice doesn't get picked, or you can stay in for the second round. Those are the only choices. You CANNOT continue to caucus for your first choice if they are not viable. Get a clue, people. Why would you not want to speak up for your second choice? Who is that empowering if you fold up and go home? Kucinich doesn't have a prayer in Iowa - the party basically blacklisted him and as a result, he hasn't been wasting his time and resources there. I gather from a personal conversation with Kucinich that he trusts Obama's integrity more than the others.

nayoibi - you don't "vote" for anyone in a caucus. There is no ballot. You can only caucus for those who are being represented there (or you can act like a complete idiot and stand in a corner yelling bugs bunny, but I don't think it would accomplish or prove a damn thing other than you are an idiot).

FUNEOCONS-don't mind being called an idiot,plenty of company.maybe i didnt express it correctly.if kucinich was truly revolutionary among his peers,why would he want us to back the more of the same men or women(the secret club) of the elite echelon ?the 'deciders",you know,dick cheney's eighth cousin,barack.oh that's rich,mr.fumeocon,what youre saying is dennis wants you to support the lesser of the evils ! hey,what happened to my cindy sheehan article ?

One more thing on Kucinich's choice of Obama for the second choice: I think he perceives that Obama, in the end, would be more responsive to the people over corporate interests. I have always had the sense about Obama that he has high ideals, but also a pragmatic side that says you play the game to some degree until you are in a position where you can lead them in a new direction (rather than coming in combative and being instantly dismissed). In an election that he stands a reasonable chance of winning, he is going to play the centrist card to leverage the resources and backing he needs to be successful. But once he gets to a position of leadership, I think Dennis perceives that Obama will be true to his convictions and the people. Personal or not, Edwards has shown himself to not have the same kind of integrity that garners Dennis' respect. I think Dennis is a good judge of character, and I appreciate that he has given his supporters his thoughts on the subject. These candidates have spent a lot of time together on the campaign trail and on the hill -- they know each other pretty well by now.

I recommend this article on Edwards, Obama (and the others) which Earthian posted in another thread.

http://blog.johnedwards.com/story/2007/12/20/222052/20

At this point, I think that Kucinich throwing his support to Obama is indicative of Kucinich's (sometimes poor) judgement.

Wasn't Obama keen to bomb Iran along with Bush and Cheney? Wasn't Joe Lieberman his mentor? I think I'll stick with John Edwards.

funeocons - thanks for the eloquent Caucus education - but you might want to use a bit more tact. the reason most Americans do not understand a caucus system is because ther MSM treats it just like the electoral college. They DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW HOW A CAUCUS WORKS. Why? It is probnably the most democratic form of electing officials we have today. It requires one to be physically present and in doing so lends itself to having people who are informed about the issues being present. No one wants to be standing in a corner yelling Bugs Bunny except Bugs himself.

The same sort of thing happened in 2000 in FL. HUH? That's right. When Bush filed a suit with the Supreme Court, it was the SC's Coinstitutional duty to decline to hear the case as it was still onghoing at the FL Supreme Court. Apparently for politicians States rights are only important when you can use the phrase as a slogan. So rather than do the legally correct thing and allow the FL SC to hear out the case, the Fed SC intervened and heard a case that for the first time in our nations history could not be used as legal precedent. the Constitutional authority of the Supreme Court is to establish legal precedent. The important thing about this case was not the winner as Bush would have won no matter the vote count. Gore could have had every vote in FL and the State Legislature could have held a special session to declare the State of FL's vote for President. This is called the Electoral College. Google the ruling of this case for yourself and you can read the text...

"the citizens of FL do not have a Constitutional guarantee to vote for Presidential Electors."

This is what the US SC wanted to avoid at all costs. you thought the recount was a media circus? That was by design. Had the citizens of this country been exposed to a special session of the Electoral college and heard an Blather and Peter jennings rambling on ad infinitum about the inner worksings of the Electoral College the streets of America would have erupted in protest over the reality that we DO NOT HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL GUARANTEE TO VOTE FOR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS.

It would have all been perfectly legal though. But back to the Caucus system of elections; the MSM does not want this process to spread to any more States than are presently using it. It requires educated participation - the thing most feared by the American Aristocracy.

nayoibi - I didn't mean to call you an idiot -- I meant that as a rhetorical "you". I can relate to your feelings because I am an idealist as well, but in an election, someone is going to get voted in one way or another, and we can only choose from those who choose to run for the job. And that does mean choosing between the lesser of evils most of the time, but as long as we have the form of government we have, it will always be this way. I suppose it is still better than a monarchy (although our so-called democracy seems more like an aristocracy these days...). I think a lot of this frustration is about the system -- it may be time for us to re-examine our form of government. I think we are ready for much more direct citizen involvement and accountability of our leaders. I also think we need to reign in the media. There is free speech, and then there is manipulative, deceitful mind control. We must not underestimate their power and create safeguards to keep this power from being used against us.

Kucinich is welcome in the Green Party. He would actually be in the majority. I'm not sure why so many moderates and liberals stay in the conservative democratic party.

Unless you enjoy getting screwed over every election.

colleen,thanks for the re-print of cindy's article.but what i am most concerned about is that it disappeared from my viewing and posting pleasure,what gives ?am i being singled out for the censure,or what ?any answers ?

Well Dennis has showed his true colors ... barak obama ??? ... The pubs only Dem hope to do away with Social Security and eliminate the dream of "health care" for all ... Obama, a man who doesn't know what he's saying from one minute to the next ... and changes his tune whenever Oprah gives him a nudge ...

Dennis, you can go to the back of the room now ....

colleen,the last thing i posted on that sheehan article was a quote from john lennon's 'working class hero'..."FIRST YOU MUST LEARN TO SMILE AS YOU KILL,IF YOU WANT TO LIVE LIKE THE 'FOLKS ON THE HILL'." (thank you,colleen)

What we have here is a lack of understanding. Understand that Rep.Kucinich is reputed to have a thing with John Edwards. What has that got to do with the more electable candidate? If the Democrats are to win this coming election for the Presidency, we need John Edwards! He has strongly stated he will stand up against corporate interests. This is the most important issue the country has to face to-day. The corporations have dictated to this administration and prior administrations and what do we have? Changes in medicare, out-sourcing, higher fuel prices, higher food prices, failed school programs, failed unions and more.
While I'm hot, how about that IMPEACHMENT movement?

funeocons,the "rhetorical" me,thinks the rhetorical you,has had his mind 'snatched'..what the heck do you mean,"reign in the media" ?isnt that one of our most profound problems ? the rhetorical you is the idiot.

This is very disappointing, and it makes me all the more certain I've been right all along to support John Edwards as the true agent (warrior) of change. DK backing Obama--whose health plan isn't universal, who will keep troops in Iraq, who will build nuclear power plants--confirms all my suspicions about Kucinich.

And AWAYYYYYY we go. Let's see who has a fit here first.

NO NUKE PLANTS,NO NUKE PLANTS !!not 'clean',silent and deadly !!

Welcome to the year of the rat!

Perhaps we should emulate John Galt and withdraw our efforts and wisdom from the cleptocracy.

Okay KEM, I'm having a fit now! Maybe a grand mal seizure!

Why in the world didn't DK give his caucus supporters the choice between Edward and Obama? Let them choose which way they wanted to go depending on how the first vote went? I'm a huge DK supporter, but I'm really unhappy about this. It doesn't seem very democratic to me.

So, KEM, does that make me the first to have a "fit"?

i give up,i had it right the first time,when i unregistered as a voter.nader backs lawyerboy edwards,dennis backs nukeboy obama and cindy wants to join up with the enemy.what a fucking mess ! next,ron paul will be backing satan's spawn.

This (DK business) reminds me of self sacrifice for a higher goal. We can always write in whomever we want.

GWB has brought America to it's knees - will UBL bring America to it's senses?

Maybe hoping Obama will make him his running mate. If Edwards picks Nader, things get really interesting. If one or neither chooses his supporter, the DLC will.

Am I dumb, do I just not get it? I know that I'm leaving myself open by the question, but here goes.

OBama sounds like Osama and didn't we just hang a man in Iraq with the name Husayn just like Barracks middle name. Jesus, Obama is the best thing going for the republicans. Oh yeah, and he's black to boot. I look at the audiences that Obama rallies and I can pick out the republicans plants. (The whites that are there and are not clapping too loud or anything else). He hasn't moved me with any thing that he has said because I feel like yelling at him and saying "you don't light a candle next to Jesse or to Ron Dellums and lot of other black men and women that have paid thier dues" and they didn't and wouldn't stand a chance.

I would vote for Dennis Kucinich and I'm going with Edwards because they really want to represent the people. Ms Clinton is an up hill battle (first woman in the history of the US that might stand a chance) Obama also is up hill except steeper. The best thing that could happen to the republican party is to have Obama as the democratic candidate because they would win hangs down.
gil

No Rebel, that does not qualify as a fit, that is sensible reasoning. The fits start when someone starts calling you nasty names for voicing your opinions.

what a gigantic waste of time.this is how the story goes;the deciders use people like dennis,ralph and cindy,to promise hope and change and rope in a whole lot of stray sheep,so they can be blasted back into the same old corral.cindy is the biggest fool of all cause she thinks she's gonna change them,they will change her into whatever they want or need.what the deciders really want is for you to vote like good little sheep-citizens,so they can blame you when things go wrong,UNREGISTER-DON'T VOTE !i did have it right when i unregistered from voting in this sham.

lillulu: Good choice. I'm leaving my options open, however.

nayoibi: You aren't dealing with a full dect. NOT voting is how we got into this mess in the first place. And Cindy is running as an independent. How in the world are they going to corrupt her? Please explain how that would work exactly.....

John Edwards voted for the war in Iraq. You had to be mad or corrupt to believe Bush over the weapons inspectors. I wouldn't vote for him for dog catcher.

I am not convinced that Obama knows the concepts, language, or dynamics of the change process. He just uses the word change and no others. He has not educated people about the change process. I have never heard him speak about the process of visioning and how to accomplish it successfully, or about streamlining the processes of legislation by lowering the walls of control and decision making to allow for greater and more rapid communications in all directions. Nor have I heard him speak of decentralizing the process and perhaps even considering decentralizing the politicians to get them out of Washington and into their own districts. Technology makes this a reality and makes Congress both more effective and survivable in an age of terrorism. All that I have heard Obama speak about is trying to get along with other legislators especially those
in the Republican party. This is twinkle-bunny politics. The Dems are in the fight of their lives and they better have a pres that knows how to fight and fight hard. Edwards has had the courage to openly zero in on the central problem of Corporate Democracy and indicate a strong willingness to fight it. Edwards seems grounded enough to do it. IMO Dennis showed poor judgment in supporting Obama as the candidate for change.

Beyond the dsitinction between a caucus and primary that has already been elaborated in this thread, it is instructive to note that what DK is saying is as simple as ABC...anyone but Clinton.

On that I think we can all agree. It is also importwant to note that the Des Moines Register today released a poll showing Obama opening up a lead over Clinton and that any and all Kucinich delegates who might add their voices for Obama could only increase that trend. Looks like a smart move to me.

I hate to say this but, there is nothing attractive about the Democratic party if Kucinich is not there. They all support the war one way or another, I cannot vote for anyone like that. I have to say then : Ron Paul 2008 for peace

a member of congress,is a member of the club.dem,repub,indepen or green,all the same broken-down machine.i would like to see the wonderful ms. sheehan,tell them all to go to hell and stay with us,where she really belongs.the winner of the election,will be whoever the deciders want it to be.maybe i'm not dealing with a full deck,maybe you are not dealing with the full deck.i am tired of wasting more time,talking about illusions,goodnight.

Obama is a conservative, corporate, militarist.

Here are my favorite two Obama-the-Conservative quotations:

"The Founders recognized that there were seeds of anarchy in the idea of individual freedom, an intoxicating danger in the idea of equality, for if everybody is truly free, without the constraints of birth or rank and an inherited social order...how can we ever hope to form a society that coheres?" (Obama, The Audacity of Hope [New York, 2006, pp. 86-87) 

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."
www.barackobama.com/2007/08/ 01/remarks_of_senator_obama_the_w_1.php

So equality is dangerous, individual freedom is anarchy, and it is a good thing to attack other nuclear-weapons-possessing nations in violation of international law. Some progressive.

For Kucinich to endorse him two days before competing against him is (without further explanation) completely bizarre.

Ron Paul

Here are five articles by Paul Street that expose Obama for the corporate, conservative militarist he is—because of his policies.

"Obama's Audacious Deference to Power," ZNet (January 24, 2007), read at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11936; published also at Black Agenda Report,
 
"The Pale Reflection: Barack Obama, Martin Luther King, Jr., and the Meaning of the Black Revolution," ZNet (March 16, 2007), read at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=12336
 
 "Obama's Insults," ZNet (October 3, 2007), read at
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=13940
 
"Barack Obama and The Audacity of Deception: Reflections on the Manufacture of Progressive Illusion," ZNet (December 6, 2007), read at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=14448
 
"Obama Speaks: 'Oh Great White Masters, You Just Haven't Been Asked to Help America," ZNet (December 11, 2007), read at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=14481

I sent money to both ,but must admit I've had a Ron Paul sticker on the truck since spring.

This being the first ever politcal sticker on any vehicle I've ever owned.

Ron Paul's economic philosophy is why the US is in the condition it is in. If you want more of his dog-eat-dog prescription, give him your support.

I hope all Iowa Kucinich caucus-goers ignore Kucinich's endorsement of Obama. It makes no sense at all and has considerably diminished my opinion of Kucinich. If they can't get the minimum in the caucus room for a Kucinich delegate, Edwards is the only other second-choice worth considering.

i would have more respect for kucinich,right now,if instead of throwing his support and supporters to obama,he had said'i wouldnt tell my supporters whom to back.the people that have supported me are intelligent and educated.i trust that they will be more than capable of making up their own minds.'

Ugh. Somethin' about this just doesn't fit. Whatever it is also doesn't smell very good.

I must admit to a certain feeling of disappointment. Obama wants to be be warm and chatty with those who'd slit his throat without a second thought. Why would DK support this?

A lot of you think it is inconsequential that Edwards recently bought a $6 million dollar 29,000 square foot house in NC.

Well, actually this is quite consistent with Edwards true regard for the environment. He is not an environmentalist and his voting record while Senator demonstrates this.

There is an organization called the League of Conservation Voters which tracks environmental votes in the House and Senate. Please check this out:

Edwards' score: 59
http://presidentialprofiles2008.org/Edwards/tab1.html
Obama's score: 96
http://presidentialprofiles2008.org/Obama/tab1.html

Also, if you look at the last two years of record-keeping for each candidate you will see an even a greater disparity between Edwards and Obama:
Edwards' score: 27
Obama's score: 96

If you delve deep into Edwards voting record, you will be surprised. Here is an example. On Oct 30, 2003, the Senate was asked to vote on an amendment that would:

..provide for a program of scientific research on abrupt climate change, to accelerate the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States by establishing a market-driven system of greenhouse gas tradeable allowances, to limit greenhouse gas emissions in the United States and reduce..., amending S. 139 [108th]: Climate Stewardship Act of 2003.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2003-420

Edwards was conveniently absent during that very important vote in 2003. Yet, now Edwards promotes his bold plan of tackling climate change by reducing carbon emissions by 80% by 2050. One can only conclude that Edwards is blowing a lot of hot air.

Don't think that Edwards doesn't have his corporate sponsors...like Goldman Sachs.

I'm not endorsing Obama (I support Kucinich), I'm just bringing a little clarity to the question of why Kucinich would turn his back on Edwards. Kucinich knows Edwards and Obama better than we do.

Brian Moore for President!
Vote Socialist! www.votebrianmoore.com

Yes. If he was serious about Peace, he should have thrown his support to Ron Paul.

Ron Paul is also anti-corporate and his top priority is dismantling the military-industrial complex.