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Creeping Fascism: Lessons From the Past
These are the words of Sebastian Haffner (pen name for Raimund Pretzel), who as a young lawyer in Berlin during the 1930s experienced the Nazi takeover and wrote a first-hand account. His children found the manuscript when he died in 1999 and published it the following year as "Geschichte eines Deutschen" (The Story of a German). The book became an immediate bestseller and has been translated into 20 languages-in English as "Defying Hitler."
I recently learned from his daughter Sarah, an artist in Berlin, that today is the 100th anniversary of Haffner's birth. She had seen an earlier article in which I quoted her father and emailed to ask me to "write some more about the book and the comparison to Bush's America...this is almost unbelievable."
More about Haffner below. Let's set the stage first by recapping some of what has been going on that may have resonance for readers familiar with the Nazi ascendancy, noting how "odd" it is that the frontal attack on our Constitutional rights is met with such "calm, superior indifference."
Goebbels Would be Proud
It has been two years since top New York Times officials decided to let the rest of us in on the fact that the George W. Bush administration had been eavesdropping on American citizens without the court warrants required by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978. The Times had learned of this well before the election in 2004 and acquiesced to White House entreaties to suppress the damaging information.
In late fall 2005 when Times correspondent James Risen's book, "State of War: the Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration," revealing the warrantless eavesdropping was being printed, Times publisher, Arthur Sulzberger, Jr., recognized that he could procrastinate no longer. It would simply be too embarrassing to have Risen's book on the street, with Sulzberger and his associates pretending that this explosive eavesdropping story did not fit Adolph Ochs' trademark criterion: All The News That's Fit To Print. (The Times ' own ombudsman, Public Editor Byron Calame, branded the newspaper's explanation for the long delay in publishing this story "woefully inadequate.")
When Sulzberger told his friends in the White House that he could no longer hold off on publishing in the newspaper, he was summoned to the Oval Office for a counseling session with the president on Dec. 5, 2005. Bush tried in vain to talk him out of putting the story in the Times. The truth would out; part of it, at least.
Glitches
There were some embarrassing glitches. For example, unfortunately for National Security Agency Director Lt. Gen. Keith Alexander, the White House neglected to tell him that the cat would soon be out of the bag. So on Dec. 6, Alexander spoke from the old talking points in assuring visiting House intelligence committee member Rush Holt ( D-N.J.) that the NSA did not eavesdrop on Americans without a court order.
Still possessed of the quaint notion that generals and other senior officials are not supposed to lie to congressional oversight committees, Holt wrote a blistering letter to Gen. Alexander after the Times, on Dec. 16, front-paged a feature by Risen and Eric Lichtblau, "Bush Lets U.S. Spy on Callers Without Courts." But House Intelligence Committee chair Pete Hoekstra (R-Michigan) apparently found Holt's scruples benighted; Hoekstra did nothing to hold Alexander accountable for misleading Holt, his most experienced committee member, who had served as an intelligence analyst at the State Department.
What followed struck me as bizarre. The day after the Dec. 16 Times feature article, the president of the United States publicly admitted to a demonstrably impeachable offense. Authorizing illegal electronic surveillance was a key provision of the second article of impeachment against President Richard Nixon. On July 27, 1974, this and two other articles of impeachment were approved by bipartisan votes in the House Committee on the Judiciary.
Bush Takes Frontal Approach
Far from expressing regret, the president bragged about having authorized the surveillance "more than 30 times since the September the 11th attacks," and said he would continue to do so. The president also said:
"Leaders in Congress have been briefed more than a dozen times on this authorization and the activities conducted under it."
On Dec. 19, 2005 then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and then-NSA Director Michael Hayden held a press conference to answer questions about the as yet unnamed surveillance program. Gonzales was asked why the White House decided to flout FISA rather than attempt to amend it, choosing instead a "backdoor approach." He answered:
"We have had discussions with Congress...as to whether or not FISA could be amended to allow us to adequately deal with this kind of threat, and we were advised that that would be difficult, if not impossible."
Hmm. Impossible? It strains credulity that a program of the limited scope described would be unable to win ready approval from a Congress that had just passed the "Patriot Act" in record time. James Risen has made the following quip about the prevailing mood: "In October 2001 you could have set up guillotines on the public streets of America." It was not difficult to infer [[ http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/60/19945 ]] that the surveillance program must have been of such scope and intrusiveness that, even amid highly stoked fear, it didn't have a prayer for passage.
It turns out we didn't know the half of it.
What To Call These Activities
"Illegal Surveillance Program" didn't seem quite right for White House purposes, and the PR machine was unusually slow off the blocks. It took six weeks to settle on "Terrorist Surveillance Program," with FOX News leading the way followed by the president himself. This labeling would dovetail nicely with the president's rhetoric on Dec. 17:
"In the weeks following the terrorist attacks on our nation, I authorized the National Security Agency, consistent with U.S. law and the Constitution, to intercept the international communications of people with known links to al-Qaeda and related terrorist organizations.... The authorization I gave the National Security Agency after September 11 helped address that problem..."[emphasis added]
And Gen. Michael Hayden, who headed NSA from 1999 to 2005, was of course on the same page, dissembling as convincingly as the president. At his May 2006 confirmation hearings to become CIA director, he told of his soul-searching when, as director of NSA, he was asked to eavesdrop on Americans without a court warrant. "I had to make this personal decision in early Oct. 2001," said Hayden, "it was a personal decision...I could not not do this."
Like so much else, it was all because of 9/11. But we now know...
It Started Seven Months Before 9/11
How many times have you heard it? The mantra "after 9/11 everything changed" has given absolution to all manner of sin.
We are understandably reluctant to believe the worst of our leaders, and this tends to make us negligent. After all, we learned from former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill that drastic changes were made in U.S. foreign policy toward the Israeli-Palestinian issue and toward Iraq at the first National Security Council meeting on Jan. 30, 2001. Should we not have anticipated far-reaching changes at home, as well?
Reporting by the Rocky Mountain News and court documents and testimony in a case involving Qwest Communications strongly suggest that in February 2001 Hayden saluted smartly when the Bush administration instructed NSA to suborn AT&T, Verizon, and Qwest to spy illegally on you, me, and other Americans. Bear in mind that this would have had nothing to do with terrorism, which did not really appear on the new administration's radar screen until a week before 9/11, despite the pleading of Clinton aides that the issue deserved extremely high priority.
So this until-recently-unknown pre-9/11 facet of the "Terrorist Surveillance Program" was not related to Osama bin Laden or to whomever he and his associates might be speaking. It had to do with us. We know that the Democrats who were briefed on the "Terrorist Surveillance Program" include House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) (the one with the longest tenure on the House Intelligence Committee), Congresswoman Jane Harman (D-CA) and former and current chairmen of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Bob Graham (D-FL) and Jay Rockefeller (D-WVA). May one interpret their lack of public comment on the news that the snooping began well before 9/11 as a sign they were co-opted and then sworn to secrecy?
It is an important question. Were the appropriate leaders in Congress informed that within days of George W. Bush's first inauguration the NSA electronic vacuum cleaner began to suck up information on you and me, despite the FISA law and the Fourth Amendment?
Are They All Complicit?
And are Democratic leaders about to cave in and grant retroactive immunity to those telecommunications corporations-AT&T and Verizon-who made millions by winking at the law and the Constitution? (Qwest, to it's credit, heeded the advice of its general counsel who said that what NSA wanted done was clearly illegal.)
What's going on here? Have congressional leaders no sense for what is at stake? Lately the adjective "spineless" has come into vogue in describing congressional Democrats-no offense to invertebrates.
Nazis and Those Who Enable Them
You don't have to be a Nazi. You can just be, well, a sheep.
In his journal Sebastian Haffner decries what he calls the "sheepish submissiveness" with which the German people reacted to a 9/11-like event, the burning of the German Parliament (Reichstag) on Feb. 27, 1933. Haffner finds it quite telling that none of his acquaintances "saw anything out of the ordinary in the fact that, from then on, one's telephone would be tapped, one's letters opened, and one's desk might be broken into."
But it is for the cowardly politicians that Haffner reserves his most vehement condemnation. Do you see any contemporary parallels here?
In the elections of March 4, 1933, shortly after the Reichstag fire, the Nazi party garnered only 44 percent of the vote. Only the "cowardly treachery" of the Social Democrats and other parties to whom 56 percent of the German people had entrusted their votes made it possible for the Nazis to seize full power. Haffner adds:
"It is in the final analysis only that betrayal that explains the almost inexplicable fact that a great nation, which cannot have consisted entirely of cowards, fell into ignominy without a fight."
The Social Democratic leaders betrayed their followers-"for the most part decent, unimportant individuals." In May they sang the Nazi anthem; in June the Social Democratic party was dissolved.
The middle-class Catholic party Zentrum folded in less than a month, and in the end supplied the votes necessary for the two-thirds majority that "legalized" Hitler's dictatorship.
As for the right-wing conservatives and German nationalists: "Oh God," writes Haffner, "what an infinitely dishonorable and cowardly spectacle their leaders made in 1933 and continued to make afterward.... They went along with everything: the terror, the persecution of Jews.... They were not even bothered when their own party was banned and their own members arrested." In sum:
"There was not a single example of energetic defense, of courage or principle. There was only panic, flight, and desertion. In March 1933 millions were ready to fight the Nazis. Overnight they found themselves without leaders...At the moment of truth, when other nations rise spontaneously to the occasion, the Germans collectively and limply collapsed. They yielded and capitulated, and suffered a nervous breakdown.... The result is today the nightmare of the rest of the world."
This is what can happen when virtually all are intimidated.
Our Founding Fathers were not oblivious to this; thus, James Madison:
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.... The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
We cannot say we weren't warned.
Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in Washington, DC. A former Army officer and CIA analyst, he worked in Germany for five years; he is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.
This article appeared first on Consortiumnews.com.
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179 Comments so far
Show AllKEM: Nope, I didn't get anything yet. I haven't been too good about my e-mail lately though. Thanks for the headzup!
I'm all for government by the people, of the people, and for the people. I don't care what you call it, just as long as it guarantees me and my fellow man life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And corporations aren't people. That means that they are not intitled to any of those rights.
And I agree with MiMi. I think we are at the end stage of fascism here in America. Hold on to your hats folks!
P.S. KEM: I think you may be putting too much faith in the outcomes of hearings in January. Hope I'm wrong though....
Doom: Would you elaborate on who those big ships may be? Thanks.....
"There is absolutely nothing you folks can do to make meaningful change–short of a revolution."
Well, moonraven, since you're over there with all the perspective, maybe you could direct those of us who have decided to stay and fight.
What the Dems will do will have nothing to do with 'ending this'. Can't you tell from this article, and everything else we've learned (like the near unanimous votes on the Patriot Act and the fact that only one Senator (who needed hay for his faltering Presidential campaign) seems to have temporarily stopped the granting of immunity for this illegal spying) that the Dems are fully supportive and onboard with this policy.
If the Dems announce they'll hold hearings, that just means they want some soundbites and headlines to help their campaign. It does not mean they'll actually do anything. Doing something would entail .... not granting immunity .... launching impeachment investigations ... using the same investigations to refer criminal charges .... insisting the Justice Dept follow through on charges, probably by naming an independent prosecutor ... backing that up with threats to cut money from the Justice Dept budget if they don't follow up (anyone see Charlie Wilson's War, where as a committee member he tells the CIA they are going to loose a million dollars for every bit they delay on talking to him?).
Congress has the power to stop this. And the Dems have the votes. If the Republicans filibustered, the Dems could counter-fillibuster all budget money for the NSA and Justice. The writers of the Constitution deliberately gave Congress the power to control this. The Dems won't use it. And they won't use it because they like this policy as much as the Rethugs.
If you want to change this, stop voting Dem. When you vote Dem, you are voting to support this policy. Instead, kick Pelosi out of Congress (www.cindyforcongress.org), work with a real party that opposes this (www.gp.org).
And if you want to really find out how far into fascism we are, give it a test. Come to Denver next year for the DNC. Lets get several million concerned American citizens in the streets telling the Dems to their faces that this is not acceptable. (www.recreate68,org)
Moonraven:
I know you've left the "discussion" for now and just in time. Your eloquence, intellect, and obviously rich life experience was really starting to get to some of our omnipresent bloviators who really should start their own website and stop polluting this one.
I'm quoting you here, one of many fine observations tonight:
"what's wrong with your legislators is that they represent the collective YOU–a nation of self-congratulating, racist, bellicose, materialistic sheep and ostriches–soon to be declared the lemmings of history as they rush over the cliff to its abyss."
In admiration and respect,
Misanthrope
The global corporatist Empire hiding behind the facade of 'Vichy America' is just like the nazi Empire hiding behind the phony government of 'Vichy France' that it set up as a facade.
Except that this global corporatist empire of the 21st century has gotten much further in its take over of the whole world, is much more guileful than even Goebbels, and has set-up a full two-party vichy government and mainstream vichy media that is no where near as obvious as Vichy France.
Even Goebbels did not try to set up a phony two-party vichy facade in the fatherland. Today, he would roll over in his grave and shout:
"Mein Fuhrer, I failed you. I would never have envisioned that we could have set up such a complete (and complicit) two-party vichy scam in our own fatherland. Why, they don't even know that they are in the belly of the beast! This 'Vichy America' is such a marvelously sophisticated propaganda that it could truly be the 'thousand year Reich' we only dreamed of."
Getting lectured by a former high-ranking CIA official on fascism is a little like listening to the pot calling the kettle black.
Ray, if you want to get indignant over government-business alliances why don't you tell us how the company (insider slang for the CIA--interesting irony there!) midwifed the overthrow of democraticaly elected governments in Iran, Guatamala, Chile, El Salvador, Nicauragua, the Congo, Angola, Vietnam, Laos, Yugoslavia, and a whole host of other places.
Tell us how in every case those democratically elected heads of government were executed, imprisoned, or run out of their country and were replaced by oligarchial business elites more to the liking of the IMF, World Bank, and their government toady the State Department.
Your CIA hands are just as dirty with the blood of innocent slain martyrs as the Nazi's or KGB ever hoped to be Ray and your bitching about the Bush adminstration is just so much internicene political turf warfare. A plague on both of your houses.
For real, Doom, woould you elaborate on those big ships please?
As has been said before: the Democrats are controlled by cowards, the Republicans are controlled by fascists, and both are thieving corporate capitalist parties. The machine is broken and we are heading for a cliff. Drastic, courageous change is required if we are to survive. Otherwise, we are assisting global genocide. It's our own choice, we cannot blame anyone else, and the rest of the world is waiting to help us. But...to once again paraphrase the Last Poets: "Liberals are scared of revolution."
For the present Rebel, that's the only thing going in the near future that shows promise.
I watched C-span a few days ago, the Judiciary Committee. They are zeroing in with determination on Cheney and Bush. I don't remeber the Congressman's name. A Billy someone? He is grinding the axe and it wasn't for show. He's pissed, there were three Congressmen and they were asking very tough questons about torture, the missing tapes and they were not accepting any bullshit from the trio of Costitutional lawyers they were questioning. And the lawyers didn't press it, they spit out the truth and Bush looked very bad,___ of course he would look bad.
When Mr. Jose Gonzales testifies, and if he tells it all, watch the fur start to fly. I fully understand skepticism from any and all after what we have seen this past year. I do have my hopes up after watching that unrehearsed program. Valorie Plame and Joe Wilson have some powerful friends in the loop and friends who know where the bones are buried. I think dem bones are gonna get dug up and the full skeleton will be put together for the entire world to witness.
If it falls flat, you can tell me, "I told you so."
"We have had discussions with Congress…as to whether or not FISA could be amended to allow us to adequately deal with this kind of threat, and we were advised that that would be difficult, if not impossible."
Complete bullkaka, Gonzales. FISA did not NEED to be amended in the first place. FISA was well-designed to handle the terrorist scenario. Even if it needed improving that was easy to do.
What we have with the eavesdropping is very clearly a class war assault by the elites against the people. They are exploiting the people's fear to take away the people's freedoms and concentrate power in the hands of elites.
Good Germans, have a "SAFE" and Happy New Year of telephone, internet, postal mail, banking, and travel surveillance.
In a morbidly curious way, I wish I could gaze into a crystal ball on America and see just how "oppressible" we are. The government opens up the detention camps. The government revokes the First Amendment. The Second. The government has already done away with #4 in the digital age (freedom from warrantless searching).
But just how much would Americans tolerate until they began to recognize Gore Vidal's "enemy within", and took effective action?
There are many good people who have lived their lives with wisdom and honor. They have not been cast aside by events. They have maintained their purpose and they have carried the mail for the many who wrongly have chosen the path of weakness and self indulgence. They come in all races, colors, nationalities, faiths, genders, and socio-economic classes. They carry the seeds of the future with them. They are awakened and active and will not allow American Fascism or other extreme isms to become firmly established and to stand. They are the moral backbone of this Nation and are not fools or people to be toyed with. Their actions will be smart and unconventional. They will act when they can do the most good. They are decentralized and will act individually and in concert with others. They are the heart and soul of what is good about America and they are steady in their actions. You will increasingly feel their presence and they will not fail because they place your best interests above their own. They know how to confront evil and to put fear in it. Evil is backtracking now and you will see it's false strength for what it is, weakness.
Stay positive, hopeful, and thankful. Better days are ahead.
Paul: The average American will tolerate almost anything as long as it is happening to "the other". The other being anyone who is not in their sphere - racial, cultural, economic, etc. I can't remember the whole poem, but it starts with "When they came for the Jews, I was not a Jew, so I said nothing" and ends with "When they came for me, there was no one else to speak for me" or something like that.
It is my belief that most Americans will not raise up in sufficient numbers until they personally feel the pain of what has happened to our country. And I also believe that that pain will be delivered with an economic collapse. To me it seems that this is the event that will force people to unite with community to survive the upheaval. I believe that the American people are basically good. I also believe that many have become brain dead in our consumer culture with an overlay of mind numbing propaganda.
I hope Doom & Gloom is right. I just have a feeling that the better days ahead are going to be preceeded by some pretty tough times.
From all the recent comments, I feel that I must point out that de_nile is more than a river in Africa. For those of us who endured the sixties and seventies realize that some battles can be won, but the revolution was lost amid large groups of people migrating toward individual causes with the belief that it was where they could do the most good. The Big picture was lost due to focusing on smaller incremental advancement of progressive change. The situation today is much more dire and dangerous due to a lack of organized resistence. It's a warm fuzzy thing to 'project' that we are on an endless path, stopping to adjust our course of direction occasionally, but the cold hard facts are that we are all at the bottom of a dark and dirty well with only our instincts and resourcefullness to attempt to resurface. Character and Committment are our tools, and a whole lot of bravery is needed to fuel them. Wake up, Wake up. The dreams is over for now, time to deal with the nightmare at hand.
Rebel,
I have met many different walks of life in North America, and I believe you are correct. I'm most interested in seeing how this whole thing will eventually be resolved. Will voices of reason/ethics/vision get a chance to come to power and avert the otherwise inevitable? If things continue, our society must (not optional) eventually collapse. The question is whether it is a foreign power, or whether Americans themselves, that eventually lay waste to D.C.
I think Ray McGovern's main purpose is to keep the establishment-left discussion on course, and away from 9/11 truth. Of course, he's not the only establishment-left figure doing that, but with his experience he just might be writing the script for others to follow.
Doom n Gloom, thanks for the articulation.
Rebel Farmer, I agree and maybe more: with a deep and wide enough "economic collapse" we could/would be witness to the spark for the first revolution on Earth in a capitalist industrial economy.
now even for an atheist, that sounds worth praying for
Sinclair Lewis: How Fascism Will Come To America (1935)
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
- Sinclair Lewis, It Can't Happen Here.
I have been saying it for quite some time on posts here on CD, and Rebel and Kem reinforce it. The only time people in this country will rise up in protest is when the pain hits them in the pocketbook. No more flat screen television for watching Sunday Night Football. No more four bedroom house with a swimming pool and a three car garage. No more morning stops at Starbuck's coffee on the way to work. Life will have to become financially difficult and inconvenient.
This is a great discussion, but I think I need to go to bed now. All I can add right now is:
Paul: I think it may be too late for reason and justice to come to power in time to turn this mess around. If impeachment doesn't happen NOW, and I mean in January, there is no other avenue to "dethrown" the king and his jesters. Getting Cheney locked up is critical. I am Supporting Wexler's efforts to bring impeachment hearings. I think many on the judiciary committee are really trying to make this happen. But of course, Nancy is standing in the way. And I don't think that anybody has to lay waste to DC. When the financial shit hits the fan (I'm guessing that the unraveling will begin in earnest around March) everybody is going to go into survival mode. The people will disengage from the government and the corporations. The will develop local support systems. I haven't a clue as to what the pols in DC will do. I suspect that marshal law will be declared.
miftin: I don't know why you believe that Ray is part of the establishment. Even Chomsky doesn't want to focus on 9/11 right now. Our whole democracy is in melt down right now. I'd really like to have a REAL investigation of 9/11, but there are other things on the front burner right now for me.
polsci: I share your sentiments. I gave up my fear of the inevitable collapse when I realized I couldn't stop it. Not that I won't keep trying. I'm still out here beating my pots and pans VERY loudly. But I am also resigned. And getting prepared in the best way I can. I can't say that I'm looking forward to "the spark for the first revolution", but I can see that some good can come from it when it comes. We, as a people, will once again pull together and rise from the ashes. Hopefully we will remember how we got here so that we never make the mistake again.
claudius: What's coming is going to be a lot more than "diffecult and inconvenient". We are going to see what Americans are really made of. These will be "times to try men's souls". But we're in it together, and as long as we stay together, and help each other, we'll make it through to the other side.
Peace
Yes claudius, I have been saying just that since the stolen elections and the appointment of the president by the supreme court back in 2000. Now it seems that reality is beginning to overcome media spin, and the American sheeple are finally waking up to the pain, and their opinions are starting to approach something like a critical mass.
Martial law may be declared, but it cannot possibly be enforced. These scoundrels walk a fine line between what they need, want, and what is possible. Many of our economic elite would protest -- it would hurt commerce, consumerism, etc. But more to the point, it would be totally unenforceable and cause a backlash they couldn't possibly contain.
douglas ames, I do appreciate your realism and I understand what you are saying. My thoughts come from a different place, a place of Spirit. It is Spirit that creates physical reality. The ways outside of Spirit have lead to a dead end. Now is the time to try to understand the power of Spirit and to embrace it. Those persons that I am speaking of have already done so. Even if one cannot embrace Spirit, it is important to remain positive, hopeful, and thankful. It is also important to avoid hate. Hate strengthens evil. We will prevail by trusting Spirit and the good within us. And to those who believe that a cleansing is upon us, you are correct, it is. We must work through the storm, all of us.
DOOM N GLOOM -- I'm quite thankful that your appellation (D n G) is a humorous twist to our context of embracing the Spirit as source of ALL, and I am certainly empowered by your words.
I 'know' that declaration (as done in 1776) and sourcing of an unprecedented future is an act of courageous creation, that goes much deeper than just a re-awakened America.
We ALL need to share in this VISION, and as you say "Even if one cannot embrace Spirit, it is important to remain positive, hopeful, and thankful. It is also important to avoid hate. Hate strengthens evil."
We will prevail by trusting Spirit and the good within us. And to those who believe that a cleansing is upon us, you are correct, it is.
We must work through the storm, all of us.
May we all be blessed with the abundance to accomplish the crafting of our children's future - where our belief, hope and faith - are far stronger in temper and endurance than mere physicality and acts.
I am always surprised how easily the American public is manipulated with:
Desire (for other's goods)
Fear (of 'terrorists' e.g.)
Duty (Patriotism etc.)
These are the three well known temptations of the Buddah!
How easily we fall for them time after time.
Too bad Moonraven went to her hammock. I was really starting to enjoy that cat fight. Reeeyyyyowww!!!
… and this too shall pass …
Sorry, I left off the author's name in my previous post. The quotation is by Chris Floyd of the Moscow Times, and it was written six years ago!
Prescient!
That's what my wife said when she served the bean burritos Nspire.
COLDWARBABY. I have a couple of questions before I sign your website or E-mail petition.
I suppose I will have to use my true name and possibly an address for ANY petition to be valid. ___ Who all gets that information?
Wouldn't that compromise those who use a code name here?
Geez, the level of anxiety here is giving me a headache, I read every post.
I think we have the means to deal with change if we keep our humanity. Vote your conscience and be prepared to live with your decision. I think we should have learned from the last seven years that we do not want another republican in the white house and if a democrate is elected it probably won't be based on merit.
That is the way it is, like it or not. We are in trouble as a country and only good actions will make it better. The revolution was a right-wing revolution and it is about to collapse from it's own weight.
Ray is not telling us the whole story.
Poet December 27th, 2007 10:31 pm,
Bravo, the most eloquently phrased statement of facts.
dumb, Why didn't I think about that!?
You all here are discussing reform from the periphery inward, and do not realize that without understanding the INWARD, psychological dynamics--not just as an idea, but as a perception--we and the world are doomed to continue and repeat this destructive dance. The mystics both old and new have told man he is inwardly asleep and "knows not what he does." That is why transforming yourself is the ONLY thing that will transform the world. When we simply work from an ideal, one side is "good," and the other side "bad," ever notice that? Consider that both sides are contributing to the same darkness by opposition within ignorance.
Peace and equality can NEVER be imposed from the outside; that's akin to painting spots on a lion and not expecting it to attack! So I say work to awaken yourself, remembering that a tiny flame can turn into a blaze. Here an old rock song comes to mind by the Who: "Won't Get Fooled Again." Studying history alone will not prevent it from repeating itself [albeit in some slightly modified form] unless or until we understand the inward dynamics behind it.
Moonraven is right. Also, someone says, "it is as if evil just moved its headquarters over to america,after the fall of nazi germany…"
Actually it was before the actual end of the war. The fascist sympathizer John Foster Dulles brought over some "friends" from the Wansee division of the SS as advisors to the state department as they were consummate anti-communists (and we must remember that fascism in Germany was based on anti-communism). That influential SS cadre helped set up their friends in South America and elsewhere. Much of our "cold war" policy has been influenced and even guided by these SS and SS inspired people. The anti-communist (and labor . . .) propaganda that has permeated our media since the 50's has been very successful in the Nazification of the American mindset.
claudius, you, Rebel, and Kem will be pleased with 2008 because this will be the year that the underlying economics will come to the forefront of motivation to confront the Empire.
Historically, empires only fall in one of two ways:
1. Massive war from the outside -- or --
2. Massive economic pain internally
As Bill Murray might say of the economic pain that we will experience in 2008, "so at least we got that going for us."
Unless the global corporatist Empire hiding behind this facade of 'Vichy America' manages to start WW III, which despite Bush's crazy taunts is looking less likely, 2008 will be the year of the economic collapse of this Ponzi Palace.
Although massive economic pain would normally seem like a poor choice as a New Year's wish, at least it is the one way that an empire can come to its just rewards in the nuclear age and still leave the resulting world 'recoverable'.
I hope that most sentient beings would answer this SAT question with 'B'.
"Please choose the best way to end a global empire:
A. Through a deck-clearing nuclear war?
B. Through an economic depression that motivates people to remove the empire and re-establish a real democracy?"
2 B or not 2 B. I choose B.
The 2 key ingredients are FEAR and DEGRADATION.
FEAR: Silence is support for the Government. Silence is also BELIEF, if only to the extent that one believes that "that's just the way things are."
DEGRADATION: Keep the masses in a state of degradation imbued with a feeling of individual inferiority and powerlessness. Then, create a POWER IMAGE of the leader, political party, corporate logo, etc. The masses will then want to associate with the POWER IMAGE. Their freedom becomes the instrument of their enslavement.
If someone questions the POWER IMAGE, then the mob will violently crush the heretic.
The formula is so simple that it's terrifying.
ArbeitMachtFrei - Couldn't it be argued though that the formula only works as long as "the mob" is uneducated? If "the mob" decides to throw off the shackles of fear, then I'd say the formula changes for the better.
Plus, this is why I agree with others here who encourage getting to know your neighbors who live in close physical proximity. My neighbors might think I'm a bit of a kook, but I have made an effort to be part of the neighborhood, and I suspect they know they could count on me to help out if there is a neighborhood need. Time will tell.
you need to go smokem peace pipe moonraven
Saila--I had some questions about Robert Gordon University. Could you write me at:
tlmac75@yahoo.com
so I could ask you.
Thanks
i am glad to read a few hopeful posters..with some fight left in them.there is too much negative hopelessness,expressed here at cd.moonraven and misanthrope,it is you,who are the lemmings rushing headlong into the abyss,and you are trying to convince others to leap off the wall with you....you seem to hate yourselves and the whole human race that you belong to,you seem quite willing to throw the towel of the human race at the feet of the executioner....you make his job-too easy.(how will the angels defend mankind before god and accuse the 'evil ones' of being the authors of death,chaos and destruction ?)... (people such as you,make this a rough job,for the angels)....i am not your enemy..i am trying to fortify hope and tell you that there can be a tomorrow,if you try.do not consign the human race to the fire,get up and fight for your right to life.it does not matter if you believe in angels and devils..or not...take it as a metaphor..but push back against the darkness or it will push us over the wall.
Hi, guys. Many interesting coments.
Ray McGovern has come out for 9-11 truth. He has been on panels shown on FSTV.
Many American corporations supported Hitler and facism. Americans who fought the facists in Spain were called "premature anti-fascists and vilified.
Hitler was "appeased", he was supported until he went too far for the American and British industrialists. But some, such as Bush grandfathers, Prescott and George Herbert Walker, continued to support Hitler until stopped by the Congress. Don't think they changed their minds because of that.
The "ratline" set up by the Vatican and the Americans siphoned many facists to this hemisphere and the US sheep dipped other facists and put them back into power in Germany.
America fought the communists in Italy, Greece, France and other countries after WW11, although the most effective anti-facist resistance was the communists, as showed by the quote misquoted by Rebel Farmer, showing the power of the anti-communists in this country. It starts, "First they came for the communists" but Americans, including Gore (who I just heard misquote it last week), always say "First they came for the Jews", because we have been conditioned to think that Hitler only targeted the Jews.
He didn't. He targeted Communists (which is why he was supported by the industrialists), Socialists, trade unionists, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill and retarded people, and any other "useless eaters" (Shades of anti-welfare Americans today)
I am sorry that Seraphicmom and Moonraven quarreled. I like them both, and Rebel Farmer and I do think that we should stick together.
Facism is here, but does it have to stay? It ain't over until it's over. Other countries have thrown off dictatorships, and so can we.
Wow, Gadfly...that quote from Chris Floyd in The Moscow Times is unbelievable! Or, unfortunately, it is WAY TOO BELIEVABLE.....
Thanks--I'll be sharing that with everyone I know.
Sorry I didn't proofread my comment.
I meant to say Hitler wasn't appeased, he was supported.
It is commonly believed in this country that the ruling classes of America and England appeased Hitler.
This is used, as we all know, multiple times to justify unproked attacks on other countries. We all need to confront this belief with the truth.
The ruling class of America, at least, didn't just appease Hitler, they supported him. The book is called "Trading With the Enemy" by Charles Higham
And thanks. I now remember seeing Ray McGovern sitting on a 9/11 truth panel on FSTV
"Fear and Degradation" -- works well around this geographic area
CHESSGAMES56 -- You generalize (6:53 am) that "You all here are discussing reform from the periphery inward … ", and yesterday you enigmatically state (4:24 pm) "the solution to effective change may be as close as a mirror"
What you suggest (INWARD=>OUTWARD) is shared by many posters herein, who are transformative thinkers, and distinctly are not satisfied with mere reforming of the 'rows of deck chairs on the Titanic', as the current societal context is as doomed as the unsinkable wasn't.
The widespread denial and suppressed pain is how we've been gamed by nefarious and devious PYSOPS conditioning, which will provide little sustenance nor structure as the pervasive encroachments fuel greater and deeper pain and fear, and the chains of dominance slip off.
The context of SPIRIT (what is more INWARD?) and metamorphic change is pervasive in CD, where many are solidly understanding that re-arranging of the contents (e.g. deck chairs) is only superficial camouflage of a rank illusion, when the context (Titanic is sinking) is no longer sustainable.
How we BEcome and BE the change?
I encourage you to view comments from the following CONTEXT paradigm SHAKERS (here I go throwing abstract contents - names & postings - that hardly can reflect but a glimmer of the real truth of the human BE'ings behind the text, nor ALL who are our torch bearers):
DOOM & GLOOM (27th 11:52 pm), REBAL FARMER, BUFFALO KEN, ST. JOHN, and myself NSPIRE
Many herein are close to understanding the under-structure of the problems, while un-felt and real pain may be dulling their otherwise powerful perceptions toward needed changes in INTENTION and ATTENTION solutions.
It is through education and empowerment that more will become prepared for a spiritual transformation, of which your posts are part of the solution.
Thank you.
As one candle's luminosity
is an onslaught onto the Darkness
You and others may find the following useful preparations for the coming storm (replace the • with a "."):
_ _ _ _ _ R _ E _ F _ E _ R _ E _ N _ C _ E _ S _ _ _ _ _
L O V E _ like _ T R U S T:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/07/5683/?jal_edit_comments#comment-153915
HISHERstory ABHORRENT DEMONIZATION OF WOMAN ≠humankind's survival:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/07/5683/?jal_edit_comments#comment-152660
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/21/5933/?jal_edit_comments#comment-162540
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/21/5933/?jal_edit_comments#comment-162575
CONTEXT OF MIND AS SLAVE:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/07/5683/?jal_edit_comments#comment-154215
"The human understanding, when it has once adopted an opinion…draws all things else to support and agree with it. And though there be a greater number and weight of instances to be found on the other side, yet these it either neglects or despises…in order that by this great and pernicious predetermination the authority of its former conclusions may remain inviolate." Francis Bacon, Novum Organum (1620)
LOVE CURES FEAR:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/11/29/5499/?jal_edit_comments#comment-147765
CONTEXT SHIFTING THROUGH BE-DO-HAVE:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/11/18/5303/?jal_edit_comments#comment-139487
BUILDING A CONSENSUS CONTEXT:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/11/21/5376/?jal_edit_comments#comment-142102
COMPASSION AND PRINCIPLES:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/26/5995/?jal_edit_comments#comment-165020
WHAT IS RESPONSIBILITY:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/26/5995/?jal_edit_comments#comment-164940
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/26/5995/?jal_edit_comments#comment-164946
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/22/5961/?jal_edit_comments#comment-163768
WE MUST LEARN TO GO BEYOND:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/26/6005/?jal_edit_comments#comment-165030
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/21/5949/?jal_edit_comments#comment-162658
WE ARE ALL STANDING IN THE WAY OF OUR OWN LIGHT:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/26/6005/?jal_edit_comments#comment-165272
TORTURE MUST BE KNOWN (PSYOPS = COGNITIVE DISSONANCE):
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/21/5956/?jal_edit_comments#comment-162507
POSSIBLY PSYOPS SOLUTIONS:
commondreams•org/archive/2007/12/21/5956/?jal_edit_comments#comment-162851
We are all as those gregarious penguins in the Antarctic,
huddling together protecting each other’s backs
from the fierce cutting winds,
warmly sharing the cold’s fury, and
each taking our turn on the front line of merciless assault,
before returning to the fold of our brethren and kindred
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
Moonraven wrote:Have any of you folks been to Latin America? the Middle East? India? China? Indonesia? Russia? even to the EU?
Well, yes-I lived in South America for a year, Saudi Arabia three years and traveled the rest plus Central America and Africa a couple of times but travel in itself does not grant one understanding of the Country you live in or visit much less have any special insight to international politics.
I agree with most of what you say but find your aggressive "know it all" attitude offensive and rude.
I live in Mexico also and like you I do not live in a gated community. I have been an expat for many years in many places and have a different prospective on the U.S. than most on this thread however I am not so arrogant as to think I have all knowledge and can see into the future. Countries can be turned around for the better without revolution. Ecuador and Venezuela are the two that come to mind and it can happen in the U.S.
Moonraven,
You have said nothing new, creative, or even very interesting.
But it is self –righteous and self- serving.
So congratulations on successfully giving up.
I'm sure the shining example you set will surely be followed by those who seek easy answers to complicated realities.
Have a margarita for those of us snug bugs who are so unenlightened.
KEM PATRICK
you haven't been paying attention regarding the 'petition'. this was first posted here by 'roundabout'. remember him/her? then richard posner took it over a few weeks ago and when i asked if he used to be roundabout he disappeared and now it's coldwarbaby with it. weird.