In Diplomatic Coup, Chavez Says Colombian Hostages To Be Released
MIAMI - Three high-profile hostages held by Colombian rebels will soon be freed, perhaps as early as Thursday, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez announced Wednesday in Caracas.
The release of the three, including an aide to kidnapped former presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt, would be a major diplomatic coup for Chavez, who a month ago had been told to stay out of hostage negotiations by Colombian President Alvaro Uribe.
The way for the release was opened after Uribe agreed to allow Venezuelan aircraft bearing Red Cross insignia to cross the border and pick up the hostages.
Among those to be freed, Chavez said, are Clara Rojas, 44, and her young son, Emmanuel. Rojas was Betancourt’s campaign manager when she and Betancourt were taken captive in 2002 as Betancourt campaigned for the presidency. Rojas gave birth to Emmanuel while a hostage, reportedly after a relationship with a guerilla fighter.
Former congresswoman Consuelo Gonzalez, 57, who was taken captive in September 2001, will also be freed, Chavez said.
There was no word on freedom for Betancourt, who also holds French citizenship and whose release has become a cause celebre internationally. Chavez spoke with French President Nicolas Sarkozy about the pending release on Tuesday, French newspapers reported.
“The Colombian government thanks the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela and in particular President Chavez for his interest in the unilateral and unconditional liberation of these three hostages,” Colombian Foreign Minister Fernando Araujo wrote in a statement that granted permission for the Venezuelan planes to enter Colombia.
Last month, Uribe halted Chavez’s efforts to mediate the hostages’ release with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, for the release of 45 political hostages, saying Chavez had overstepped his authority by attempting to speak directly to Colombia’s armed forces commander for information on the captives. Chavez froze relations with Bogota after a round of mutual recriminations.
In announcing the possible release, Chavez said the pilots of the Venezuelan aircraft would not be told their destination until shortly before their departure. The hostages would then be flown to Venezuela, where they would be met by a committee that would include former Argentine president Nestor Kirchner and the ambassadors to Venezuela from France and Cuba.
Chavez said he would not personally attend the release, but that he would be willing to resume negotiating for a broader release, if Uribe agreed. The FARC holds hundreds of captives, including three Americans whose drug-eradication aircraft was shot down four years ago.
© McClatchy Newspapers 2007
Great news! This is a good kick in Uribe’s groin. That means another nail in Uncle Sam’s coffin in South and Central America. Uncle Sam and the West: Can you please solve your own frickin’ problems before shoving fingers up others’ asses to ’solve’ theirs? Uncle Sam promotes ‘democracy’ (right!) but never hesitates to undermine Chavez who has won democratic contests in Venezuela many times. You may or may not like Chavez’ championing the poor but he is far more a legitimate ruler than the cheat Bush.
Chavez comes through yet again! The closest thing we have to Mr. Chavez is Dennis Kucinich and we all know why the corporate-owned media doesn’t want him to become the Chavez of the American “Revolution”!
Chavez is learning. He still needs some restraint. He really could be a force to reckon with then. Viva Chavez
What is this nonsense about “macho mouth” and “needs restraint”!?
I have had several very pleasant interactions with Chavez, who despite his military training, is a feminist.
Restraint? Regarding what?
More patronizing by gringos of a Latin American leader is what I see. Because he is not white, he must be machista in attitude and he must learn to know his place?!
I see very little difference between many of the folks who post here on a supposedly progressive site–and those who regularly spout CNN and Fox News nonsense on the right wing sites.
In fact, it appears to me that Commondreams is rapidly being taken over by the right.
Hasta la victoria siempre! Viva Hugo Chavez!
Atta girl, moonraven. [Presumptive] whites criticizing a latino. Those worthless gringos MUST be racists!
Yep, it is ALWAYS about race.
There are NO exceptions to the rule.
So, do not even THINK you are one.
Personally, I am happy and relieved to see Chavez persisting despite insults and threats to his person and to that of Senator Cordoba in trying to solve the problem of the civil war in Colombia which the US created in 1948 when the shiny new CIA assassinated Gaitan.
Look it up.
moonraven:
OK. I won’t make that mistake again.
Umm, are YOU one? (An exception, that is?) Or are you as racist as I understand you to say everyone else on this earth is? And, if so, what makes you any more right than the gringos criticizing Chavez? If both of you are equally racist, then aren’t both of you equally likely to be prejudiced, your judgement equally suspect, and you conclusions equally likely to be wrong?
As a Native American, I will never forget or forgive that white folks murdered between 90 and 100 million of my people.
And I am not going to be a hypocrite and say that I will.
I believe I already said that there are NO exceptions.
And I see that you did not bother to even google Gaitan.
That kind of smug laziness is precisely what I find unacceptable about the gringo-centered world view.
I know this was a long time ago moonrave, but just to point out. If ‘gringo’ is truly not a racial term and applies to persons of the United States; then you are a ‘gringa’ as you yourself come from the US. Correct?
massud:
Yes, it has been awhile–long enough for you to forget that I am a Native American from the Mohawk Nation in Quebec, Canada–although I do still carry a US passport.
A term can imply race without being racist. For example, mulato is a generic term in use in Venezuela indicating that the person is of white and African extraction.
Gringo is such a term. African Americans and Native Americans from the US are not normally considered as gringos. White Canadians, erroneously, sometimes are.
And yes, gringos are normally considered to be white, and in the US–for example in the state of New Mexico, the term Anglo is used to differentiate the white population from that of the Hispanic and Native American populations.
At one point your president introduced me in an event as the “proof of the existence of good gringos”, and I had to let him no that I wasn’t.
But that’s another story–harina de un costal diferente (pun intended).
Glad to see you are still alive and kicking, as the gringos say.
This is one gringo that doesn’t think Chavez gives a FARC about the release of the hostages, it is about his power struggle with the Columbians.
“Yep, it is ALWAYS about race.
There are NO exceptions to the rule.”
Oy vey.
Et tu, Moonraven?
Nice to see a Green Party Presidential candidate and her adviser being freed by FARC.
FARC has quite a number of redneck like sub-commanders and they make real stupid redneck like moves against progressive groups like the Green Party and organizations of indigenous people. It must be their stead fast embrace of the old fashion macho 20th century ideas about violent communist revolutions! Plus they have the Bush like political credo of that “you’re with us all the way or totally against us!”
Anyone have a relatively unbiased source on Chavez/Venezuela? I’m of the opinion that an opponent of Bush is NOT automatically an ally of human rights, freedom, democracy, etc.
I’ve never jumped into the fray on discussions re: Chavez because I (frankly) don’t know what to make of him.
Chavez’ actions and speeches are a matter of simple record. That should be information aplenty for knowing “what to make of him”.
Moonraven, good to hear your words; it is good to put los gringos (and anybody else saturated with a paternalistic attitude) in their place when needed, but my goodness, it is so hard since their knowledge of American history is so…childish, making it very difficult to make a point.
“I’ve never jumped into the fray on discussions re: Chavez because I (frankly) don’t know what to make of him.”
Respectable point, Paul. He seems a little like a loose cannon for me to really cozy up to him, but of course, our button down “leaders” are far more crazed when you scratch the surface.
And, let’s not forget the haze that we’re looking through with our media coverage of him.
In short - he’s a person like all the rest, subject to the same shortfalls and whimsies.
Hope for the best but keep your powder dry.
Moonraven seethes–
“What is this nonsense about “macho mouth” and “needs restraint”!?
I have had several very pleasant interactions with Chavez, who despite his military training, is a feminist.
Restraint? Regarding what?
More patronizing by gringos of a Latin American leader is what I see. Because he is not white, he must be machista in attitude and he must learn to know his place?!
I see very little difference between many of the folks who post here on a supposedly progressive site–and those who regularly spout CNN and Fox News nonsense on the right wing sites.”
********************
Moonraven, I am coming to believe you find the same pleasure in having that big chip you are constantly wearing on your shoulder knocked off as a skydiver or bungee jumper gets from their indulgence.
By the way, forgiving does not mean forgetting–it means not getting consumed by your own grief or hatred no matter how justified. In other words, forgiving is something you do for you and not for the one being forgiven. You have a lot of useful and thoughtful things to say–most of your posting in this thread is not among them.
I remain always happy to indulge your addiction to your own adreneline rush and self-rightious indignation, but advise you against getting too addicted to same–
Poet
We should avoid the term gringo like we avoid the terms nigger, kike, etc.
Keep in mind that “whites” enslaved whites for a thousand years, kept them penned up as serfs, and they fled to the Americas to escape an unsustainable economic/political system in Europe, indentured servitude, etc. A small subset of crazy Europeans enslaved their own indigenous, polytheistic and seld-determined peoples starting around 700-1100 CE or so.
Now is the time for oppressed people of all color/creed to band together. Anyone advocating wedges is either racist, a shill, or hasn’t thought about it carefully enough.
CD isn’t letting me edit my post. I want to add that indigenous Europeans, polytheistic, self-determined and indigenous people were themselves enslaved starting from 700-1100 CE or so. It’s not possible to paint all Europeans with a single stroke, any more than we can paint all Native Americans with a single stroke.
Now is the time to band together. Seize the opportunity.
at “moonraven”-
so wait, it doesn’t matter WHICH group of “white folks” did the killing?
It doen’t matter that most of the “90-100 million” killed died of uncontrolled and uncontrollable spreading of communicable disease?
That the only conscious explotations of the Native’s lack of antibodies that are reliably documented or probable, occured centuries into the situation?
That many Tribes and Nations actively participated in the destruction of their traditional Native enemies, on behalf of, and with the aid of, rival “white” Nations?
That many of those who refrained from this kind of active self-desctruction, still participated indirectly by failing to unify against the “white man”, as leaders such as Tecumseh, and later others advised?
Apparently not, apparently the FULL responsibility lay with the “white folks” AND their descendants, AND any other European ethnic or national group (or in your racist term: “whites”) who happened to come to N.America AFTER all of this awfulness.
Yes them too, AND THEIR descendents, But why stop there? Why not include ALL Europeans (”whites”)?
Even those who have never had a family member even VISIT N.America, should be blamed! After all, their ancestors were oppressed freedomless peasant subjects living under the Tyrannical Monarchies that profited from crimes against the indigenous populations of the Americas, of course, it’s THEIR FAULT TOO!
Bad things, awful actions, GENOCIDAL wars were conducted by many kinds of Europeans, with many different motivations, in what European Scholars chauvanistically referred to as “The New World”.
Yes, this is True. Of course,- ALL -decent, informed people, of whatever cultural background, acknowledge the Truth of this, or should do so.
There is much in History - in ALL of History “Old World” or “New” - to be Atoned for, just as there is much to be Forgiven, and just as there is much to be Learned from.
But while Anger is understandable in the face of such things, it ceases to be Righteous when it lashes out at those who are not to Blame. Whether because they are easier Targets, or because the Anger has become Blind Rage, it has lost its Righteousness and becomes Itself something to be Atoned, Forgiven, and Learned from.
So, in conclusion, I sincerely Hope 2 things:
1) That you “moonraven” will develop some of the Wisdom, and some of the Clever Intelligence of your Namesakes. To balance out your already well developed Passion and sense of Vengence you’ve taken from them.
2) That this kind of “Collective Blame” attitude is as rare in the Mohawk Nation -whom I have much admired for their Bold Actions, in recent times - as my interactions with several Nation Members, who have come to gatherings near to me, would seem to indicate.
on Chavez:
In (edit:NOT SO) short, IMHO, this kind of successful “South to South” and “State to non-State” diplomacy, along with such things as the “Bank of the South” -that someone else pointed out- are EXACTLY why the Oligarchies in the U.S. and in “the South” so Fear and Loathe “Commandante” Chavez. It would be one thing if he was “merely” a popular “socialistic” leader with indigeneous blood, democratically elected, then he would be Evo Morales (who ain’t too shabby himself).
But Chavez and the Bolivarian Revolution have the reasonable potential to unite S.America and form solidarity through out the “South” and the “developing(read resource producing not consuming)world”, thus leading to a “global realignment” of power, not only away from N.American and European Nation-States but, and perhaps more importantly, from the Corporate Golems these Nation-States have spawned.
An example of this on another front would be Iran’s attempt to push “realignment” of power away from the Security Council and toward the General Assembly in the U.N.. Make no mistake, however awful Iran’s current rulers are THIS is the major threat of Iran, Not Nukes!
As some had posted before this thread was quasi-jacked, Chavez seems to be at his most effective -supernationally- when he is ACTing more than he is SPEAKing (to crowds at least).
It would be ideal, of course, for the Bolivarian Revolution to move steadily away from focus on the Person of Chavez, and toward a broader focus on the Power of the People, while still benefiting from Chavez’s sizable personal Charisma.
But I think, and this is just a guess, that we needn’t worry overmuch on this point. Chavez has recently demonstrated, once again, his ability to not only accept, but accept with grace and optimism, defeat that comes at the hands of Time and Circumstance.
I think we have been trained to some extant by biased History and propagandistic “Journalism” to automatically Fear Popular and Charismatic foriegn leaders.
I think it would be better to see Chavez more in the light of F.D.R., or at least an F.D.R. who GENUINELY desires a TRUE “New Deal” for the People -as opposed to merely feeling it neccessary to stave off “Socialism”.
Then the fact that only Oligarchs, and their “rightist” pets reasonably need fear him, while the remainder of The People need not, seems not odd but common-sensical.
Oh, and I believe that Ol’Franklin said something relevant on the subject of Fear, didn’t he?
long-windedly(fingeredly) yours,
-matti
Paul B.: There is a publication/newspaper in english that I have stumbled on a couple of times. Something like venezuela.com or something. Just Google Chevez for the past week or so and you will probably find it. Also, the UK and Europe put out some good material. Nothing in the US mass media can be trusted.
Here is my take on Chavez from what little I know: Chavez has the support of the people and has been overwhelmly been elected to office many times. And the elections have been monitored and fair. Chavez is a true populist who will do whatever it takes to help his country and his people. And he realizes that to help his own country he must help all countries in South America throw off American imperialism and corporate control. And his country has the oil wealth to make that happen. And that is why the US is very unhappy with him. It’s all about the oil. And Chavez nationalized the oil wealth of his own country so that his own people, and not the oil companies, could benefit from their own natioal resources. Further, he is going to bail from the IMF and World Bank. And he is helping all of South America do the same. Yes, he is loud and outspoken and sometimes rash. But maybe all the attempts by the US to overthrow him or asassinate him has something to do with it.
All in all, I’d trade Chavez for Bush in a heartbeat if he were an American. He may need more experience, but at least he reads and learns and listens. That’s more than I can say about our evil shrub.
Viva Chavez!!!
“I see very little difference between many of the folks who post here on a supposedly progressive site–and those who regularly spout CNN and Fox News nonsense on the right wing sites.
In fact, it appears to me that Commondreams is rapidly being taken over by the right.”
Moonraven, everybody else,
OK. While I do think that we all need to stick together and all the Kuumbaya stuff (seriously, I do), I *also* think that some of y’all are falling into the trap of believing everything the MSM says about Chavez without doing your own research. The reason I believe this to be so is because your beliefs match what the MSM says, with little to back it up.
In terms of the site being taken over by the right - I see the entire so-called movement being taken over by right-wing thinking, inch by inch. What was considered to be liberal or progressive 20 years ago (progressive as in to the left of liberal, but to the right of radical) is now mildly conservative or centrist, respectively. US-centric, unquestioning, and frequently racist attitudes prevail. I know this may offend some of you - but please, take the time to reflect on yourselves before you judge.
Lastly, as for Chavez: that’s simple. Chavez is a true socialist, and a very people-minded, horizontalist, working class and working poor friendly socialist at that. As someone whose politics lean strongly towards anarchism, I would like to think that if socialism a la Chavez was reflected in soviet-style socialism a la 1917-39, perhaps we would not be having these absurd discussions, and lamenting the loss of our civil liberties. I also think that the US government has pretty much surpassed any country in known history in terms of human rights abuses, war and mass slaughter, and anybody who is not actively working to put an end to all that really should stay out of the business of condemning the leaders of other countries until such time as they do so. But perhaps that is a discussion for another time.
Viva Chavez! Viva AMLO! Viva APPO! Viva Libertas!
Rebel Farmer, thanks for that synopsis. Freak, Chavez better watch for the cross-hairs of Coerced Interrogations & Assasinations.
Regarding Bhutto, ya know, Sadat was a long time ago, people we don’t want to die, usually don’t-no matter how much folks give it the old college try (musharaff).
Poor Benazir sure went down easy huh?
ya know it gets to wearin thin
set up and knocked down like a bowlin’ pin
BB was dead the second Condi called her in October and suckered her back in-country.
“The whole concept of “racism” is nothing more than a weapon of divisiveness latched onto by the would-be masters of the world.”
Exactly right - that’s why pretending it doesn’t happen ain’t gonna change things. Of course we all need to be united - duh!
But how do you honestly think we gonna get there when people act out racist attitudes? Please, people. This is basic.
American ‘poodle’ Uribe finally having the guts to do what is right? He better not antagonize his ‘master’ or he’ll really be on a ’short leash’. Bravo for social conscience. Bravo for standing up for what is right. If Americans weren’t so damn afraid of anything that contains the word ’socialism’, the US populace could also improve its lot by following some of the Latin America examples. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with looking after your own.
Chavez seems to be a valiant, genuine, and determined person whose savvy leadership is setting an example for others to follow. He must have incredible capability and physical constitution to withstand the many pressures placed upon him (I can only imagine). His leadership offers hope to me that the “People’s Interest and basic needs” will eventually take precedence.
In my opinion, this can’t happen soon enough, but obviously some few vested interests may try to block the way. The thing is as more and more individual folks recognize the value of cooperation and recognize that it lifts everyone, then it seems to me that resistance will be futile, but what do I know?
Perhaps it is too early to think too much about global cooperation while there are still so many rats in the ship. The rats need to be flushed out and sent overboard first.
Peace,
Ken
you need to smokem peace pipe Moonraven
“you need to smokem peace pipe Moonraven”
don’t get me started about where i think you should put your war pipe
Chavez and Putin are the two greatest forces opposing US global hegemony, and the two most important leaders in the world today. Chavez can only do it on an economic and social platform, while Putin can (and continually does) stymie US military and economic aggression in Russia’s backyard.
America’s hegemonic power grab is all but over. Sure it may spurt up again in Pakistan, possibly Iran, or Kosovo, but only as a penultimate exercise in frustration. US will ultimately be forced out of Iraq and Afghanistan; the IMF/World Bank is a dead fucking duck in South America because of Chavez; the Chinese are offering better deals to African nations than they could ever get from the US; Russia has the EU on an energy leash; the Caspian Summit shuts out US pretensions in the area; the US dollar is quietly being dumped and will eventually realize it’s actual worth, i.e. about 8-12 cents…all of this has been brought about by Putin and Chavez’s fight against US imperialism, Iran to a lesser extent, Wall Street greed, and the pro-Israel lobby that RUNS your foreign policy.
Your manufacturing base is in the toilet and won’t be resurfacing; China achieved what they needed from your off-shoring, i.e. transfer of technology; Russia is achieving what they wanted, the destruction of your military credibility and diplomatic credibility, without even firing a shot, while they are sitting on at least 30% of world’s major resources; ALL of South America’s people look to Chavez for strength and guidance….and what does the US have to show for all it’s insane adventures? The blood of 2.5 million dead Iraqi’s and Afghans and Sudanese and Nigerians on your hands…a dilapidated infrastructure that is literally falling apart because of your profits over people philosophy…you are finished as a “super power”, or super ANYTHING.
Unfortunately for Americans, this revolution is NOT being televised on CNN/FOX or written about in the pages of WSJ/NYT/WAPO. I see “balkanization” in your future…i hope you “enjoy” it as much as the people of Yugoslavia and Iraq have.
Good night and good luck.
Moonraven,
Race/otherness might always be a factor, but it often isn’t the PRIMARY factor on this site. If I couldn’t stand Fujimori’s authoritarian govt. in Peru and Alejandro Toledo’s govt. because he was a privatizing World Bank hack, would you say I’m being a racist white boy because Toledo was an indigenous Peruvian and Fujimori was Japanese? Preposterous. I’ve seen “Alo Presidente” enough times to be able to say that Chavez is macho, full of himself, and certainly has authoritarian tendencies. That is not arguing for the opposition in Venezuela, that is just fact. Many of Chavez’s programs would be way better off if they just had less Chavez.
I too, like the idea of having forces to combat the United States Global Hegemony, but those forces should be more democratic. Arguing against Chavez isn’t arguing FOR white/American superiority. That’s a ridiculous binary that no one on this site should have to adhere to.
desaparecido,
You wrote: “Many of Chavez’s programs would be way better off if they just had less Chavez.
I too, like the idea of having forces to combat the United States Global Hegemony, but those forces should be more democratic.”
You don’t think Chavez is democratic? He is legitimately elected, in elections certified as fair by international observers, including Jimmy Carter. He just held a referendum seeking to change the constitution, when his proposed changes were narrowly rejected, he respected the result.
The canard that he was trying to make himself ruler for life, was exactly that. He was trying to get rid of term limits, - you know, so he could be elected more than twice - nothing more.
What are you talking about?
desaparecido,
If you don’t believe that it’s all about race, I have some lovely swampland to sell you at a good price here in Central Mexico.
Race, and its two masks of Religion and Ideology, is the grease for the wheels of all action throughout history.
Legolas_Greenleaf: Bravo! Finally somebody on this site who has an understanding of the concept of GEOPOLITICS.
I salute you, sir or madam.
As for the usual suspects, er sandbox players, who hop on these Chavez threads to vomit partially digested FOX News and CNN far right propaganda, I abhor you, sirs or madams.
The US touched off Colombia’s (not ColUmbia’s, as the DCgringo-centric posters ignorantly indicated) civil war in 1948 when the CIA assassinated Jorge Eliecer Gaitan–who was considered to be a champion of the Colombian people.
They have been actively fomenting it ever since–especially with their completely bogus War on Drugs (more appropriate to call it what it is, War to Ensure the Flow of Drugs to Its Primary Market, the US. They were pissed as hell when Chavez and Uribe inaugurated the join Venezuela/Colombia gas pipeline, and have been working overtime to drive a wedge between the two leaders.
They managed it with the hostage exchange crisis.
Chavez, as usual, faked them out.
Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing the Primary Progressive Leader on the Planet being denigrated on this SUPPOSEDLY progressive site by a bunch of ignorant gringos who have never been to Venezuela, don’t know a word of Spanish even though they have neighbors whose first language is Spanish, much less have ever MET Chavez and talked with him (which this poster has, on several occasions) and who still believe that the best use of their time is to spend it in front of a big fat flat screen watching the right wing media “coverage” of world leaders and world events.
Most of you folks are appalling in your commitment to ignorance about the region that provides most of your natural resources and much of the manual labor in your economy.
And, as was mentioned here by another poster, a quick google search in ENGLISH will turn up the English-language website, venezuelanalysis.com–which has been up and running for over FOUR YEARS now, thanks to the efforts of sociologist/journalist/former Fulbright scholar Greg Wilpert–who also has a book AVAILABLE IN THE US (I bought it from amazon and picked it up in Santa Fe, New Mexico in October) called: CHANGING VENEZUELA BY TAKING POWER.
The title might give you a clue about what YOU collectively should have done in the US.
Over and out.
Last bulletin on this issue:
Chavez arrived about an hour and a half ago in Santo Domingo, Tachiro state, toinspect the helicopters that will take off for the rescue mission.
@moonraven: thanks
“Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing the Primary Progressive Leader on the Planet being denigrated on this SUPPOSEDLY progressive site by a bunch of ignorant gringos who have never been to Venezuela…”
moonraven, this site, just like MoveOn.org, DU, DKos, and most of the rest of the so-called “progressive” or “left” sites have been co-opted and infiltrated by the Zionist tentacles of the DLC/RNC/AIPAC swine that have been perverting the idea of freedom since the Federal Reserve Act was pushed through a nearly empty Congress, in the wee hours of the morning, Christmas, 1913.
What the US has is a triangulation of fire (a la Oswald) from both sides of the same coin: Rudy “Il Duce”, Mutt Romney, McHate, on the one side, and Killary, Used car slesman Edwards, Obama the ‘underdog’, on the other. I.E., STATUS QUO. Not one of them has two fucking braincells to rub together, and ALL are AIPAC puppies. Of that, there can be NO argument.
And still the motor-mouths at CommonDreams and, especially the VILE MoveOn and DKos, run their mouths off like they have even the remotest fucking clue about socialism or progressive thought. They don’t know Karl Marx from Fred Fucking Flintstone; they don’t know that Zionists engineered the COUNTER-revolution in Russia under Stalin; they don’t know that the very same Zionist banking cartel engineered the Armenian genocide; they don’t know about the Treaty Of Versailles; they don’t know about the Zionist declaration of war on Germany in 1933; they don’t that the New Deal was a direct result of mass popular SOCIALISM threatening the status quo and ONLY designed to infiltrate and discredit it; they don’t know that Guantanamo is illegally occupied CUBAN territory; in fact, they almost next to nothing about anything in the real world history of War as an instrument of Capitalism designed as the most efficient way to move wealth from the poor to the already filthy rich. They live in a fucking dream world, where choosing between one party of cocksuckers is somehow DIFFERENT than choosing another party of cocksuckers.
As a matter of course, I commend the “right” as being relatively true to their principles, as misguided and loathsome as they may be, and condemn the left who have bought into the two-headed cyclops that continues to disparage and alienate all that THEY PROFESS TO BELIEVE.
I find almost the entire “progressive” and “left” movements in the west as nothing more than pawns playing into thew Zionist/Militarist/Fascist/NWO agenda. Fools. Each and and every last one of them.
And, so as not to leave on a sour note, I endorse the right of all indigenous people, all countries dismembered on the beach-heads of neo-liberal IMF economics, all nations that have been raped and pillaged so you “progressive” bubbleheads can have cheap iPods, McMansions, Hummers, and GMO stocked all-you-can-eat buffets, to rise up, join hands: Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité, ou la Mort!
And if you don’t like it: fuck you too.
By the way, the ONLY reason i’m even bothering with this silly site today is because iraqwar.mirror-world.ru happens to be down today - probably as a result of the same fuckers who finance moveon.org turning their Zionist pro-Imperialism net artillary against TRUTHFUL sites.
See you there - if you CARE.
I couldn’t agree more, Legolas.
As I keep saying: Revolution, or the Toilet of History.
A little over an hour ago, after being inspected by Chavez, the helicopters took off for Colombia.
The information in Colombia is that the FARC has complied with its promise–despite the best efforts of Bogota to throw more monkey wrenches into the machinery.
If there are no further wrenches, the hostages should be joining their families soon. The Colombian Peace Commissioner is at the site.
Chavez did not indicate where he would be. He said: I could be in the zone. I am like the wind.
He is being particularly cautious because Venezuelan intelligence just uncovered a new plot to assassinate him: in Guatemala at the investiture of thenew president–so he may not be attending that.
The guy in charge of providing his security on the part of the Guatemalan government said: Nobody told me about any assassination plot.
I sure wouldn’t want a bozo like that providing MY security!
Moonraven,
You still have not responded to this post:
matti December 27th, 2007 11:06 pm
I’m curious if you have anything to offer but your holier-than-thou spews.
drift–firetender at Big Mountain Sundance.
Hoka hey!
Thanks for the site. I will definitely check it out, as it looks like I will be going to Kurdistan fairly soon.
matti:
Which part of the attack on my person do you believe I am OBLIGATED to respond to?
Legolas,
Wow! You’ve got the whole fucking world, and everyone in it figured out, don’t you? Guess I should just give up and go ahead and vote for Guliani, since he SO CLEARLY REPRESENTS MY WORLD VIEW… at least that way I can claim to be as honest ideologically as you so clearly are.
Oh yeah, and was the computer you’re posting on assembled by the hard working indigenous peasants of… wherever, paid a fair wage, and most importantly of all, free of any dreaded ZIONIST influence or profit taking?
You may be coming at it from a left wing stance, but I smell the stench of anti-Semitism in your rants.
Moonraven,
I think Matti gave you plenty to respond to, and besides, that was from yesterday, so he may not be logged on right now.
So for the rest of us, try not to cop out.
Respond, or shut the fuck up. Or do you have a plane to catch on your world wide dilettante’s revolutionary tour?
drift:
Anti-semitism is not an acceptable posture, as Arabs are semitic people (!), but anti-Zionism is probably one of the most responsible postures on the planet.
De-countrify Israel. Put the Zionists in West Midlands–or Westchester County.
The computer I post on–before you go off on ME next–is a computer in an internet cafe–a South Korean brand, probably assembled here in Mexico but maybe not.
The only folks getting paid any real money these days are CEOs of exploitative companies.
The rest of us–no matter how much we want to kid ourselves–are just peons.
Sorry, pal:
I am no longer responding to posts which are only personal attacks. Which means no further responses to you.
I will post what I choose to post.
Cop out!
And in the end, the fakers and false profits are always found out.
There is a reason that folks from the US are addicted to food and drugs and t.v.: It’s to keep down any twinge of anxiety that might make its way into consciousness as a signal that something is WRONG, inside and outside.
And now that Chavez’ folks are inside Colombia to receive hostages from the FARC–and he says he’s going to KEEP DOING THIS–the US will triple the number of asassination plots against him.
They have GOT to keep that Colombian civil war burning bright, so that their soldiers in country can guarantee the safe passage of drugs to the US to keep their people numb as posts.
Everybody sing along!
“I’m leavin’ on a jet plane
Don’t know when I’ll be back again…”
Ha ha ha,
Psuedo-revolutionaries make me laugh out loud…
Moonraven,
I honestly don’t know whether to say people are beneath you here, or what. Much arrogance from the closet right here overall…I agree with much of what you’re saying here, and seem to most of the time, easily.
Thanks to the people who have actually taken the time to not buy the Faux News et. al. spin on Chavez, and actually do some thinking of your own.
As for Zionism: who needs conspiracies when the truth is every bit as bad? Ruling elites, then and now, run things. Oppose them, and you’ll have difficulties, unless you can out-work, out-organize, out-maneuver them. Pointing to anti-semitism is both foolish and impertinent in the face of that.
restive,
I am used to it. The same creeps post on the right wing sites under other names. It’s very sandbox level, for the most part.
The helicopters have arrived at the site in Colombia. Oliver Stone is at the site to document the rescue of the hostages.
¡Viva Chávez!
Fred Fucking Flintstone??
@drift
“You may be coming at it from a left wing stance, but I smell the stench of anti-Semitism in your rants.”
Arabs are SEMITES, the Jews who lived in peace with Arabs are not my problem, it’s the wanna-be KHAZARI/TALMUDIST/BLOOD-SUCKING/CHILD MURDERERS that i have a problem with. DON’T Y U O ? ? ? Or is that “OK” with you? Is GENOCIDE “ok” with you”? Is Apartheid “ok” with you? - Let me give you a small, tiny, unreported little gruesome fact for you: the ONLY TWO countries that voted AGAINST “sanctions” against the Zionist controlled regime of APARHEID South Africa were….yeah, you guessed it: USA and Israel.
Do me a favour: please go fuck off into a corner for a few months, shut your fucking hole, and read some fucking history, you fucking idiot.
Please, tighten your neck bolts, open your eyes, screw your fucking head back on: you are fucking OWNED - and until you realize the truth of that, you live in fantasy land.
Typical anti-”semite” crapola. Give your head a shake - preferably in the direction of a long sharp instrument.
The second phase of Operation Emmanuel–the rescue of the hostages–will take place tomorrow morning.
If anyone is interested.
“BLOODSUCKING, TALMUDIST CHILD MURDERERS.”
That’s straight outta Goebbells’ playbook, Leggie. You know, he (Goebbells, that is) was a former left-wing socialist until he came under Hitler’s spell. Extreme ideologues are famous for swinging violently from one extreme to another. Also, they call themselves “Neo-cons” because the original philosophers were all ex-New Dealers who swung to the far right. They out-conservative the conservatives.
It’s the zeal typical of extremists. You strike me as an ideal candidate for a brown shirt, shitbag.
Ah, the sweet civility of the progressive posters on Commondreams.
Along with the powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity (paz, Tennessee Williams and Burl Ives), it’s something I really have had enough of for one day.
” Didn’t you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?…There ain’t nothin’ more powerful than the odor of mendacity…You can smell it. It smells like death.” (Cat on a Hot Tin Roof)
Those dreams don’t seem to have much of anything in common, now, do they?
Hasta la vista.
And oh, btw, lest it be forgotten in the thread, Moonraven still hasn’t responded to Matti’s excellent post of Dec 27, 11:06pm.
And for the record, I admire Chavez a great deal, though I remain wary of him, as we all should of any of our leaders, particularly when they make power grabs in our name. I am grateful the Venezuelan people humbled him recently. In my view, he needed it, but I hope this will make him a better leader.
When I buy a tank full, I get it from Citgo, and I don’t mind paying a little extra for the priviledge.
I remain hopeful the populist progressive politics sweeping Latin America will eventually migrate north our way…
@drift
I suggest you READ the TALMUD before uttering useless garbage.
I suggest YOU read Shirer’s “Rise And Fall of the Third Reich.”
Fucking future fascist fuck, you.
Like i said, i’m here for ONE DAY only: all you Zionist cocksuckers can now go back to fucking each
other in the ass and pretending that everything is “A OK”. Yippee kay yay for Hillary/Obama/Edwards. Fucking peons.
Good luck with that, and sayonara.
drift - and others of his histrionic deluded persuasion should probably AVOID the truth…some of which can be found at iraqwar.mirror-world.ru : sensible, non-delusional people may learn something there, the rest of you? Save your keystrokes; you’ll need them.
Here’s anice surprise—
www.lakotafreedom.com
spread the word.
Chavez gets it done! I have a lot of love for my brother Chavez!
snydly,
Thanks for the link to the Lakota site.
Nice to see someone providing INFO–even if off-topic–when there are others who just come here to get off infantilely insulting others, and who have never contributed one whit.
The government of Colombia is still trying to put roadblocks to the rescue–the Colombian Peace Commissioner (here we have doublespeak in institutionalized form) says there’s no specific window of time.
I could see from the tv coverage here last night that the weather is bad from the Venezuelan border into central Colombia, where the hostages are being transported through the jungle by the FARC.
Moonraven still has not responded. Because she has no good arguments to counter her provactive statements.
She is a dilletante, and a poseur.
Personal attack by troll above at 2:27 pm
And it would appear, a hypocrite as well.
Second personal attack by troll in less than 30 minutes.
Legolas:
A little better quality control over the articles on the site that you recommended.
And the posts I have read so far are MUCH better, much more informed than the drivel that takes up much of these threads.
BUT (there’s always one):
There are not VERY MANY posts. Which I guess makes sense since there are not that many folks who write in English who have a clue about geopolitics.
Wish I could read the comments on the forum. More languages to learn, as the fulcrum of power shifts. Frustrating–being a specialist in language acquisition, I know that with each passing month it is harder for someone my age to learn other languages.
Gosh, moonraven, I thought you promised you weren’t going to respond to me anymore.
Couldn’t resist, eh? The truth hurts, so I can’t blame you.
Matti’s post of Dec. 27th @ 11:06pm above STILL awaits your response.
Are ya chicken?
The operation has been postponed, officially, until tomorrow.
Bad weather is holding up the arrival of a bunch of international observers from Caracas, as well as slowing down the tranport of the hostages.
Legolas took his geopolitical ball and went home, moonie. He’s not gonna play with us anymore. After all, we’re all right wing Zionist baby killers here at CD.