I wish this country would do the same to the rest of these style criminals. The US is harboring so many huge corporate criminals it make one fear to walk down the street. We had a half our town sprayed with pesticides that were not approved of by the people and the asthmatics all had attacks. This case here is a long time coming.

BBC says: Pfizer is accused of killing 11 children and injuring 181 others when an antibiotic called Trovan was tested on them during a meningitis epidemic.

Of course Pfizer will fight any link between Trovan and the deaths - they want to bring Trovan to market. There is a policy to only publish studies favourable to one's drug and to bury the rest.

In Arthur Schafer's "Cracking down on medical trials", he says that this practice is called "publication bias" or "the file drawer effect."

http://www.umanitoba.ca/centres/ethics/articles/article17.htm

And in "Biomedical conflicts of interest: a defence of the sequestration thesis-learning from the cases of Nancy Olivieri and David Healy" - Shafer points out how BigPharma acts in Cheney-like fashion to silence whistle-blowers (ie those who did the research for their drugs and found that the drug had - er - bad side-effects):

http://www.umanitoba.ca/centres/ethics/downloads/Biomedical_conflicts_of_interest.pdf

What Nigeria seems to be doing is trying to get the three Pfizer staff members arrested to talk. Or maybe not. There have been deaths and angry relatives (and possibly the whole country) wants someone to pay for them.

One needs to wonder why Pfizer was testing their drugs in Nigeria (rather than in New York City where they are based. Maybe they figured that they could get away with stuff there that they could not get away with at home. Maybe they did not want anyone to know about these drug trials unless they produced favourable results.

I'm surprised they aren't testing the drug on veterans at VA hospitals. Those VA doctors are up to their eyeballs in conducting efficacy studies for Big Pharma. And after they've made it all the way up to the VA hospital director job, their next step is to leave the government and take a high level executive position with a drug company.

They probably are Miftin. In 1954 there were two flights of Air Force recurits at Sampson Air Force base, Geneva, NY on LSD, checking it out. Flights #3348 and 9. June, July and August of 54. Those young guys were totally messed up. Never did hear how the lawsuit turned out, I believe it was tossed out of Federal Court.

I think they moved to Taos and became yogis, Kem.

Hi Ezeflyer, maybe so, __ that's funny. They were a scared and angry bunch of kids, they were forced by their commander and medical staffs to take the pills. I knew one of the guys, he was messed up bad and he knew it. Before they finished basic training they had a mutiny there over it and the pills, or however it was administered stopped. Years later there was a classs actiion lawsuit filed, but I don't believe it ever got past second base.

Ya know, it isn't really funny at all,screwing around with peoples brain cells. Remember the large numbers of troops who were ordered to stand some distance from an atomic bomb blast in Nevada. The doctors wanted to see how much radiation the troops were exposed to. Kavorkian type doctors have been around for a long time.

My friend's dad was one of the soldiers positioned to recieve nuclear fallout. The US Army stonewalled until years after his death from cancer.

Re: the Nigerian trials, read The Constant Gardener for an idea of how this sort of thing happens at ground level.

Death Penalty for Corporations that Kill (unless they can prove they were abused as children)

Peach McD in Durham NC

KEM - are you talking about the use of go-no go pills on pilots? The first four Canadian deaths in Afghanistan were caused by American Friendly fire.

Marc "King Marco" Leger, Ainsworth Dyer, Richard Green and Nathan Smith were killed because William Umbach and Harry Schmidt had a bit more dex (early form of ritalin/methylphenidate) in their systems than they could handle.

There was a JAACAP article called "Methylphenidate euphoria" which tells what happens when you take too much - which was consistent with how the pilots were behaving on that tape. It is not on line but this one by Morton and Stockton covers the same area if you scroll down to the heading "TOXICITY" (it's short and is followed by a table that lists symptoms):

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/pccpdf/v02n05/v02n0502.pdf

KEM PATRICK says: Remember the large numbers of troops who were ordered to stand some distance from an atomic bomb blast in Nevada. The doctors wanted to see how much radiation the troops were exposed to.

They should know that already - did you hear of "the village of widows?" You must know where the Americans got the Uranium to make the atomic bomb during WWII:

Mining for a Bomb

Canada supplies uranium for the development of the U.S. atomic bomb, while native-Canadian miners work in clouds of radioactive dusk

One of Canada's biggest contributions to the war effort remained shrouded in secrecy in early 1940s. And the secret would devastate the northern Canadian natives who were hired to mine a deadly metal called uranium.

(cont)

http://history.cbc.ca/history/?MIval=EpisContent.html&series_id=1&episode_id=14&chapter_id=2&page_id=3&lang=E

peachmcd, sorry to hear about your father - he was not the only one and that was not the only place either. It is like proving that tobacco causes cancer in the 1940's (or Taser cases death now) - they will do anything to make it look like the cancer deaths are unrelated.

The US also tested Agent Orange and Agent Purple at a Military base in New Brunswick. You've heard of Gagetown? There is a video to your right of the public meeting you would be interested in at this link:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/agentorange/index.html

Veterans win court battle in Agent Orange fight

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071023/veterans_orange_071023/20071023/

For those unaware, PFIZER is the maker of ZOLOFT, the infamous antidepressant that is the drug of choice for spree killers...It was used by Auvinen in Finland and apparently by Hawkins in Omaha.

"But Pfizer denies the claims, saying they were victims of the outbreak which killed 12,000 children in six months."

[ It seems to me commondreams has been hijacked to serve propaganda. The fact that 12 thousand died by disease where 11 died testing a potential cure obviates this article as pharma appologist crafted. It seems to me what was being tested by pfizer here was a few employees willingness to murder human guinea pigs. If this is not propaganda where's the info on how and why they went about testing their drug here, or a report that the question was posed to pfizers silence. Where here is any info on trovan, particularly efficacy and why pfizer thought it might be used without killing people in significant percent to the population so consuming? Instead they leave Pfizer seeming reasonable in testing a cure on a population that would almost suredly die anyways. ]

"But the company, as well as denying any wrongdoing, has challenged the jurisdiction of the Kano state court."

[ This article parrots the company line without stating, of course Kano gets to say what goes on in Kano... NY company challenges Kano jurisdiction for Kano operations... Where does pfizer suppose HAS jurisdiction over Kano.

With pfizer so up in Kanos az, it's soundly wondered just exactly who spread meningitis there...

http://telemedicine.org/biowar/biologic.htm
There's an article on meningitis as biowar...

Meningitis can be bacterial or viral. Essentially it is a set of symptoms and not a particular disease. That anyone would try to "cure" meningitis without figuring out what virus or bacteria caused the meningitis is a nonstart. All bacteria and virus are oxidative medically eliminated. Oxidative medicine can be applied easy as soaking in a bath with a cup of hydrogen peroxide. The extent of the infection determines the duration of the bath necessary. To prevent hyper-oxidation the treatment should be spread over many sessions. Big pharma is guilty of hiding this simple cure from everyone who has died of bacterial or viral cause. The 12 thousand children above mentioned included.

Feel free to mail me your thoughts as this propaganda spout offers no contact facility. rocyahsoul@yahoo.com ]

Kem,

An old neighbor and friend Bill Wallace was marched as a Korea War vet within one mile of the stem in Nevada. He said they were nuked first. They were ordered to dig a trench and sit in the bottom of it during the explosion (I didn't ask at what distance.) He said when it went off, that they were barely able to hang on to the chicken wire in the bottom of it because the ground was moving all over the place. He said that that straight trench they had dug "S-turned" like a snake and you couldn't see down it during the test. Then they were ordered to march right up to the damn thing. Can you believe it?

Bills eyes at that time pointed off in different directions at age 67, a consequence of the test. He wasn't able to talk about it for years and then it became public knowledge and we finally learned what was wrong with him.

Believe it or not Bill had a flying license. Sadly he crashed into a radio tower that we had protested against four miles from the airport end of the runway and was killed in 1994. I had to tell his wife the bad news. Not even a nuke could kill this guy but a corporate radio station without a soul finally got him.

"Kavorkian type doctors have been around for a long time."

Dr. Kevorkian is a hero in my book.

lucas,

Dumbsfield's tenure as CEO at that Pharm company affected all of us with the bird flu scares that were perpetrated on the U.S. people. Avian Flu actually may someday wipe us all out and Searle was the only one who had the patent on a vaccine. I read that the Defense department ordered tons of this stuff from Rummy's old company. Guess who probably still has a chitload of stock in that company?

Dumbsfield was CEO of Searle
Cheney was CEO of Haliburton

Both have become extremely rich men steering huge government orders to their companies in the form of no-bid contracts.

There's our problem right there. CEO's.
CEO's should not be allowed to cross over into government.

I prefer Ignaz Semmelweis, Ezeflyer.

VAUDREE, I don't believe you realize how negative your posts are. You cut and paste someone elses comments with your two words in BLOCK letters first, writing, SOANDSO SAYS. Then you make a comment, that in essense often indicates the other poster is wrong or a dumbshit.

You often fill the screen doing that. I wrote about the atomic tests in Nevada that harmed many soldeiers. And you come back and state they should have already known that, it's a slap in the face. If you wish to interject a comment and say something like, "Yes, and they already had medical knowledge from the results of the Hiroshema bomb." that would not be a negative comment of the other poster, even though they didn't immediatly burn a bunch of troops to death in Nevada, it was not the same thing, or the results they were testing for.

Yes the doctors may have known a lot of things, but they did conduct inhuman and illegal tests anyway, further testing to see what happens in the field with troops standing a few miles away from an atomic explosion.

We are not little kids Vaudree. It's like someone in a group says something like, "Did you know Polar bear's livers are so full of vitiman A, that if you eat any it will kill you?" And you repeat their words and say, "That's not important, everyone knows not to take too much vitiman A." You obviously don't know how your posts come across and so I'm letting you know how I see it, and others have mentioned it to you also. Don't bother with my posts in that manner please. That's a request, it's still a free country, for awhile anyway, so do as you like.

I'm truly sorry to hear about your friend PAC. I've heard the same account from two others who were there, they were messed up in their thoght process and had the symptoms of one who has suffered a stroke and has trouble speaking, or controlling head and eye movements.

I don't fly anymore, finally lost an eye due to wounds suffered in Vietnam. As Earnest K Gann wrote, "Fate Is The Hunter", flying often catches up to us humans, it's often 'fate' that does us in, __ or allows us to live.

U.S. Corporations have been using the world's poor and helpless for their tests for who knows how long. Turn these stains over for some good 'ole water boarding, maybe a wee bit-o-renditioning. Bet they'd answer a whole bunch of questions and hey, like our icon of academia and human justice Bush said....it ain't torture. In this country of lemmings you can get away with about anything if you're a politician. Hell, in this country, If you say Nucyulur instead of Nuclear they stick it in the dictionary as an alternative pronunciation to avoid telling the world we're too stupid to see a stupid man and avoid being led by him.

Time to render 'em back to Nigeria.

You need help VAUDREE. We didn't think the nuclear testing with the troops was normal behaviour. You fail to comprehend others posts. for just one example, you say your are sorry about PEACHMCD's father. It wasn't his father Vaudree, it was a friend of his fathers. You did the same type of thing three times yesterday. You are so much of in a hurry to write your opinions, you fail to absorb the opinions of others and you unfortunantly come across as a wierdo. Don't do that.

You offer some good comments lots of times, but your constant KEM or whoomever SAYS rants, are often silly.

"I've heard the same account from two others who were there, they were messed up in their thoght process and had the symptoms of one who has suffered a stroke and has trouble speaking, or controlling head and eye movements."

Kem patrick, please stop going back to that first day because:

1. it is getting annoying
2. we seem to like some of the same topics
3. I think you make intelligent comments and would like to respond to them without putting up with this BS

If I insult the American military for what they have done to soldiers, I don't want you taking offense because that is bullshit.

You are going to be able to do something about this stuff 5 years from now - I am not. If I am still alive then, I probably won't have the ability to recognise the printed word. And my murders will get away with it. You can put up with a bit of back seat driving while I still have time left.

I might as well pass on what I got on ethics. Here is the motherload (repeats in different form):

1. Medicine, Morals and Money: dancing with porcupines or sleeping beside elephants?
2. The Great Canadian Health Care Debate: Values Under Fire
3. Bedside rationing by physicians: the case against
6. How else are they going to learn? What happens to ethics when medical students practice their skills on unconsenting patients?
7. Science Wars: Olivieri under media fire
9. Health Warning: that pig cell may be a Trojan horse
10. Aunt Sophie's Choice: the perils of paternalism
11. "I don't think I will ever hold another dying child again...": the case of nurse Proudman
16. Cracking Down on Medical Trials
20. Who's paying for these steak dinners? Public service and private enrichment
21. The perils of whistle-blowing
22. Cracking Down on Medical Trials
25. Research on Elderly Subjects: Striking the right balance
27. Welcome the good death
28. The Perils of Whistle-Blowing
31. Globalizing Insecurity: where do we go from here?
32. Who's paying for these steak dinners?
33. Perils of prozac-popping
34. When Farm Leaders Meet Agri Business
35. Who're Ya Gonna Call? Not the Corporate University
36. Doctors, drug companies, and gifts
38. Bad Rx-Big Pharma & Medical Research
39. Biomedical conflicts of interest: a defence of the sequestration thesis-learning from the cases of Nancy Olivieri and David Healy
41. A wink and a nod: a conceptual map of responsibility and accountability in bureaucratic organizations
42. Biomedical conflicts of interest: a defence of the sequestration thesis-learning from the cases of Nancy Olivieri and David Healy
43. Commentary: Science Scandal or Ethics Scandal?
Olivieri Redux
44. Selling our souls: when medical research dances to the tune of the marketplace
45. Who're Ya Gonna Call? Not the Corporate University
46. Doctors, drug companies, and gifts

http://www.umanitoba.ca/centres/ethics/publication_downloads.htm

Kem, I meant "normal" like this is your experience of the military, not "normal behaviour." I meant that it was common enough that this stuff was not shocking news - that it was almost like you expected to hear similiar stories from others who served in Vietnam.

I was not ordered to endanger my health - like your friends were. When I walked into work after BeeKleen took over "cleaning" the building and had trouble walking, I could have walked out of the building and phoned in sick. Instead, I went into the elevator and went to work. I did cut down on my hours, though. I worked there four days a week so that I would have one day a week where I was completely sober. Every time I had a hangover which lasted more two days, it took less to get wasted next time. Now I get wasted too easily.

I was not ordered to end up like your friends and I was not betrayed by my government like your friends.

I need help staying sober, and you need help not holding grudges.

Kem says: It wasn't his father Vaudree, it was a friend of his fathers.

We were both wrong - it was his "friend's dad." The worse I did was grieve for a poster because of that mistake. If I read it right, I wouldn't have.

What on earth are you on VAUDREE. I was havng a conversation with another poster, Pacplayer, and said I knew of like stories as he had posted. Then you come along, re-print what I posted and tell me to stop going back to the first day. ___ Are you crazy?

I hold grudges? Fraid not, I don't even know anyone here personally, I don't hold grudges with a computer screen. Don't assume and please, like others have asked you, do not reply to my posts again, PLEASE. You're screwing up the threads. If you see my name, just scroll on by and do your thing with someone else. __ Bye Bye.

I told you already. I'm brain damaged. I am intelligent with bits and pieces missing. Sometimes I will be brilliant and sometimes I won't be. I don't know if it is permanent or not.

They denied agent orange and those affected never got help and later died. Pfizer denied Trovan and all those Nigerians died. How hard is it to understand that airfreshioner and disinfectant companies are pulling the same denial bull shit! It is the same topic, different product and different lying villain.

When the Vietnam vets came home, no one believed them either. And it took many people dying in Gagetown before anyone believed them. And the survivors are getting next to nothing except an acknowledgment that wrong was done to them and they were telling the truth.

You seem like you are trying to start a fight and I don't care why. It seems to me that you are trying to twist everything I say because you WANT to be insulted for no reason and I am tired of you being insulted FOR NO REASON!

I think that you are right, I've had enough of your insults and your fake hurt feelings.

I hope that means we are finished. I won't come back either.

Rumsfeld's claim to fame with G.D.Searle was getting the artificial sweetener Aspertame approved for commercial use, despite the fact that it causes brain cancer, lupus and other diseases, and everyone knew it.

Rumsfeld is a devil.

>> It seems to me commondreams has been hijacked to serve propaganda.
>> The fact that 12 thousand died by disease where 11 died testing
>> a potential cure obviates this article as pharma appologist crafted

When it came to speak for the interests for large dictatorial governments and corporations, BBC is no saint. The pithiness of the newsclip itself appears to be self-serving to Pfizer.

Hari

Hi KEM,

My condolences...Since vaudree may change his handle, it's probably best to study style...not hard in this case, and avoid altogether. I am reminded of some advice about the uselessness of arguing with a drunk, or in this case whatever is bothering vaudree.

Doesn't it seem like there's a lot more causticity in posts lately?
Not the anger over what's ailing the nation, but people attacking one another, not using restraint, or tolerating what is here usually just a slightly differing description, additions to, objections to or questions about material of an article we all read.

May the Divine grant the troubled ones some peace of mind...

As always, I like to read your "take" on things...

On the article: I am greatly suspicious of Big Pharma as a money making entity. I've seen enough articles about the lack of ethics in testing drugs and chemicals to look upon these companies with a jaundiced eye. Granted, there are some drugs that are boons in the life saving department, but we have all been subjected to the advertisements on tv. I sheepishly admit that I was influenced and tried both Prozac and Zoloft. Fortunately, I came to the conclusion that what was bothering me was a valid reality and that the drugs did not make the negative stimulus go away nor did they make it easier to handle...useless actually. Sometimes those kinds or drugs, like street drugs too or legal drugs like alcohol, remove the responsibility of dealing with life or making the decisions to change circumstances. Sometimes this is necessary or a stop-over before regaining control, so I am not judging the use of them for these reasons....Life is not perfect, none of us is saintly, so,...let us put down harshness toward one another.

Working toward a better USA and a better world begins with education, awareness and sharing the knowledge with others, like we do here. Problem solving is one of the skills needed and requires a positive mind-set to balance against the known negatives. So, though I have some faithless feelings about all the crap I see going on, I do like to read the more positive opinions posted here. I like hearing about the consumer advocate's groups that are out there and articles that "blow the whistle" on the wrong doers.

Power to the People! That's us...glad to be a part of you.

Marianne

Great post MAS 1946,

But I tend to agree with KEM that VAUDREE needs to refrain from posting so many misconceptions and misattributing so many quotes to the wrong posters. Just about every post Vaudree makes is full of misrepresentations and misunderstanding of simple concepts and simple humor used by others. Kudos to Vaudree for admitting she/he has brain damage.

Vaudree, I, like you, drink and take drugs to alleviate spinal disease that I am suffering from. When I am zoned out, I read and do not post. When I'm partially drunk, I go to great pains to read the post I'm responding to three, even four times out loud so that I get the correct impression of what's going on. If it's a subject I'm not that familiar with, I PUT THE OBSERVATION IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION SO THAT IT WILL NOT INSULT the poster who has a greater knowledge of the subject.

Just helpful suggestions, that's all.

pac "not perfect either" plyer

Try plankton pills PAC. Seriously.

http://whyplankton.com/

Thanks KEM,

I think I will. Anything's better than swallowing the poison pills that the Big Pharms like Phister crank out. They produced the studies that say VIOX has minor side effects just to keep the pill pipeline full and the profits pumped up; like so much FDA rubber-stamped candy for us to wither on. God I hate those phuckers!

Or Vaudree,

If you're still here, try this: address JUST THE SUBJECT MATTER when you post; DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RECALL WHO SAID WHAT because you and I aren't very good at it. I'll take the same advice.

Cheers,

pac