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Hoover Planned Mass Jailing in 1950
A newly declassified document shows that J. Edgar Hoover, the longtime director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, had a plan to suspend habeas corpus and imprison some 12,000 Americans he suspected of disloyalty.
Hoover sent his plan to the White House on July 7, 1950, 12 days after the Korean War began. It envisioned putting suspect Americans in military prisons.
Hoover wanted President Harry S. Truman to proclaim the mass arrests necessary to "protect the country against treason, espionage and sabotage." The F.B.I would "apprehend all individuals potentially dangerous" to national security, Hoover's proposal said. The arrests would be carried out under "a master warrant attached to a list of names" provided by the bureau.
The names were part of an index that Hoover had been compiling for years. "The index now contains approximately twelve thousand individuals, of which approximately ninety-seven per cent are citizens of the United States," he wrote.
"In order to make effective these apprehensions, the proclamation suspends the Writ of Habeas Corpus," it said.
Habeas corpus, the right to seek relief from illegal detention, has been a fundamental principle of law for seven centuries. The Bush administration's decision to hold suspects for years at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, has made habeas corpus a contentious issue for Congress and the Supreme Court today.
The Constitution says habeas corpus shall not be suspended "unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it." The plan proposed by Hoover, the head of the F.B.I. from 1924 to 1972, stretched that clause to include "threatened invasion" or "attack upon United States troops in legally occupied territory."
After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, President Bush issued an order that effectively allowed the United States to hold suspects indefinitely without a hearing, a lawyer, or formal charges. In September 2006, Congress passed a law suspending habeas corpus for anyone deemed an "unlawful enemy combatant."
But the Supreme Court has reaffirmed the right of American citizens to seek a writ of habeas corpus. This month the court heard arguments on whether about 300 foreigners held at Guantánamo Bay had the same rights. It is expected to rule by next summer.
Hoover's plan was declassified Friday as part of a collection of cold-war documents concerning intelligence issues from 1950 to 1955. The collection makes up a new volume of "The Foreign Relations of the United States," a series that by law has been published continuously by the State Department since the Civil War.
Hoover's plan called for "the permanent detention" of the roughly 12,000 suspects at military bases as well as in federal prisons. The F.B.I., he said, had found that the arrests it proposed in New York and California would cause the prisons there to overflow.
So the bureau had arranged for "detention in military facilities of the individuals apprehended" in those states, he wrote.
The prisoners eventually would have had a right to a hearing under the Hoover plan. The hearing board would have been a panel made up of one judge and two citizens. But the hearings "will not be bound by the rules of evidence," his letter noted.
The only modern precedent for Hoover's plan was the Palmer Raids of 1920, named after the attorney general at the time. The raids, executed in large part by Hoover's intelligence division, swept up thousands of people suspected of being communists and radicals.
Previously declassified documents show that the F.B.I.'s "security index" of suspect Americans predated the cold war. In March 1946, Hoover sought the authority to detain Americans "who might be dangerous" if the United States went to war. In August 1948, Attorney General Tom Clark gave the F.B.I. the power to make a master list of such people.
Hoover's July 1950 letter was addressed to Sidney W. Souers, who had served as the first director of central intelligence and was then a special national-security assistant to Truman. The plan also was sent to the executive secretary of the National Security Council, whose members were the president, the secretary of defense, the secretary of state and the military chiefs.
In September 1950, Congress passed and the president signed a law authorizing the detention of "dangerous radicals" if the president declared a national emergency. Truman did declare such an emergency in December 1950, after China entered the Korean War. But no known evidence suggests he or any other president approved any part of Hoover's proposal.
Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company



119 Comments so far
Show AllI first heard about FEMA camps being proposed under Oliver North in the Iran Contra hearings in 1988 or so. The presiding congressmen said, "Let's take that question into closed chambers," so we never got to hear it discussed. (Sorry, no citation, just memory of the video.) I didn't hardly believe it then. That was the first time anybody I knew had heard of FEMA at all.
I'm less hopeful now perhaps (though Reagan had the whole "global nuclear war" thing that kept my late teen years cheerful.) I do think it worth noting that a plan is not necessarily an intent. The military probably has plans for alien invasion from Mars, or all-out war on Canada. Some plans get closer to implementation then others. This article (and the FEMA stories from the '80's) isn't very clear on how close this came to use.
Hoover did though, have personal experience with actually using this tactic in the Palmer raids that kick-started his whole wretched carrier. I'd believe he was pretty serious about doing it again. What a difference that would have made in US history since 1950.
COLDWARBABY
first it was roundabout, then richard posner, now you with this petition. who's behind it? really.
KEM PATRICK
thanks for the holiday wishes. there's more about this on: www.globalresearch.ca in the topic: police state america. don't worry, i'll come and rescue you if those naughty people take you away. we should get some carrier pigeons. they can't eavesdrop on them...............
It feels strange that reference to this article was taken off the main page.
It is back on the main page now, so ignore this.
Sounds a bit like what Saddam Hussien did to the Iraqi's..
Wow GW Bush is just like Saddam Hussien, I bet he was just jealous of him and thats why he invaded Iraq!!!!!!!!!!
Well PAUL, from reading your opinions, we don't have a very serious problem with Bush then. And once again, you bring up the fear factor. Why? The only one I see using that terminology is you.
I must disagree with you with one of your comments. I do not believe fear is always an irrational emotion. For example, when your aircraft has been hit with 37mm cannon shells, two of four engines are out, a wing is on fire, over a jungle, at night, and several of your men are dead or dying, fear is a perfectly rational emotion, but one can still function properly regardless ___ believe me.
Personally, without feeling any fear or attempting to instill any fear, I'm writing about what Bush is doing what he has done, __ and there MAY be Fema prisons prepared for a lot of people. What people? If it is a lie, then why doesn't someone prove to all of us it is a lie? Those websites TRB offered were just bloggers from the far right, saying they don't exist. Someone is wrong. Whom do you believe Paul? I don't know who to believe, I'm skeptical of the 800 prepared prisons, but believe it MAY be a fact.
I do wonder why so many who post on this site, often state that Bush may inact his Presidential Directives and cancell the next election? Of course that's guessing, but Bush has written Presidential Directives where he could do that and Congress okayed them. They are law. Why would he do that?
Why did he lie about the WMDs in Iraq? Why did he lie about Iran's nuclear program? Why do so many here believe he is attempting to take full ocntrol of our country and damn the Constitution. Which he has publically done.
I agree with you PAUL, Bush is no Hitler, he's just been following Hitler's script to the best of his ability. It's in his genes is it not? Preston Bush, who supported Hitler with tons of money from the mid 1930s and all through the Second World War. He also attempted to overthrow President Roosevelt with a military coup.
I dunno Paul, maybe you could clarify your comments, you sound as if we are overly concered with the Bush administration and the things he has done and can do. If you are correct, we might as well have another like him in the White House next time. And please, get off the fear issue. Attempting to learn the truths, sharing opinions and websites is not fear.
No wonder Hoover was a homo. He had a face that not even a mother could love! What a freaking monster! I can smell his hemorrhoid breath just looking at the picture. Man this guy was ugly inside and out! He's a perfect match for Barbara Bush! Maybe we should dig him up and get them together! The Blob meets Jabba the Hutt.
Ahhhh free speech. I get high from it's very existence.
Use it or Loose It.
binnnn - there is a difference between a mistake and intention - and not in their immediate affect on us. With a mistake, there us usually a fairly immediate move to either try to fix it or to make sure no one traces it to you. With intention, someone profits and they try to make darn sure that no one traces either the action or the bounty to them.
iwarrior says: It is important that this came out. It shows just what the powers-that-be are capable of.
We know what they are capable of. Seems that for every time they get there way, there are times we don't know about where they didn't. Hoover tried and failed to get this (which is why we didn't know about it until now).
But Hoover did not operate in a vacuum. Who was he associated with? Who were his disciples? Who did he pass his ideas along to?
What we will learn next is the famous names on the list (either a famous person or an ordinary person with famous offspring). What we won't get, except with vagues guess with the names we are given and what we know about them, is the full criteria for inclusion on this list.
Think of what you will know 50 years after Cheney dies - if you are still around to hear it.
jchotch says: A recent PBS or Booknotes program described the loyalty interviews made by authorities administering the Japanese internment camps during WW II. These interviews were conducted in order to release internees who had applied to be released to work in defense industry factories, where there were labor shortages.
I knew that Japanese Canadians were interned during WWII in Canada but only suspected strongly that it also happened in the US. David Suzuki was one of the Canadians interned.
David T. Suzuki and his twin sister Marcia were born in Vancouver, B.C. in 1936. His early years were spent living with his family in the back of their dry-cleaning business in Marpole, a primarily white neighbourhood. His father Kaoru "Carr" Suzuki, an avid outdoorsman, helped shape Suzuki's interest in nature early by taking his son on camping and fishing trips.
His life was uprooted in 1942 when the Suzuki family was sent to an internment camp following the Japanese attacks on Pearl Harbour. The next three years of Suzuki's life were spent living in an abandoned hotel in a former gold rush town. On top of the indignities he and his family experienced, he also became a target for other Japanese youth for his refusal to disavow his Canadian roots. ...
(from "Did You Know) In April 1942, Suzuki's father was sent to a labour camp in Solsqua, a small town in B.C.'s interior. Two months later the government sold the family's dry-cleaning business and sent Suzuki, his mother and two sisters to an internment camp in Slocan City, a ghost town several hundred kilometres away from his father. His younger sister Dawn was born in an abandoned hotel where they lived for the next three years.
http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/suzuki-david.html
Ireneus says: There are no Jack Bauers.
Even Kiefer Sutherland is no Jack Bauer. Have you heard about Kiefer Sutherland's famous grandfather - Tommy Douglas? Know that they read every word!
RCMP spies shadowed Prairie politician Tommy Douglas for more than three decades, according to documents obtained by the Canadian Press.
A newly declassified file on Douglas shows the Mounties attended his speeches, dissected his published articles and, during one Parliament Hill demonstration, eavesdropped on a private conversation. ...
The 1,142-page dossier, spanning nine volumes, was obtained by the Canadian Press from Library and Archives Canada under the Access to Information Act.
Personal files compiled by the RCMP's security and intelligence branch can be released through the access law 20 years after a subject's death. Douglas died of cancer at age 81 in February 1986. ...
In late 1964, the RCMP received a letter alleging that Douglas had once been an active member of the Communist party at the University of Chicago, where he had done postgraduate studies.
A top secret memo from a senior RCMP security officer to the force's deputy commissioner of operations indicates there was no reliable information to substantiate the tip.
"We have never asked the FBI for information on the matter because of Douglas' position as leader of a national political party."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/17/douglas-rcmp.html
David Suzuki (number 5 on the list of Greatest Canadians) told his supporters to vote for Tommy Douglas (who became the greatest Canadian. The RCMP also spied on John Lennon and Yoko Ono.
Everyone else, son wants on computer. Hope Santa is good to you - ie, you get one of these books everyone keeps talking about - don't OD on chips and dip, eh.
Detention camps... see the Village Voice, Sept 4 2002... just one of MANY accounts.
Search Operation "Granite Shadow".
Kem Patrick,
> I have personally seen two of the prepared Fema prisons inside
> and out.
You have had access to the inside of one of these alleged camps? Which agency were you working for at the time? :) Or if you obtained access through, shall we say, unorthodox means, how do you know that they have anything to do with FEMA?
Where is your published article? Crematoria would make this a BIG story. Did I miss something in one of the progressive news magazines?
> If you already knew so much about the subject, why did you ask?
Because LindaS hasn't provided a source for her claim about KBR (which she probably confused for Halliburton). You did, sort of, cite one source. But I'm not even sure I have the right one. (More about this later.)
> You tell me and everyone else here, that google is not a source
> and then give us two Googled web sites that are less than
> worthless talking and opinions.
Wrong. I did not find them via Google. I knew those sites because I read them pretty often. And Google itself is not a source. You can find sources there, but you can also find a lot of crappy sources. Specifics matter.
And your other claim that the Reynolds article is just an opinion is just plain wrong. It is an analysis of the background to the very thing you are discussing, a background that will help you evaluate the articles you "Google". But you have to read it first. It's a really interesting story about the origins of what appears to be an urban legend.
> I googled fema prisons, then scrolled down to the articel titled,
> "Fema Consentration Camps Locations and Executive Orders. Found
> it to be very interesting. I can't swear it's accurate, or on
> the other hand, that is is not factual.
If you and I are looking at the same site, that's from the American Patriot Friends Network. It screams "Patriot Movement" from every pixel. So no, it is not a reliable source. It's also a very old tale.
More to the point of my original question, that specific page is certainly NOT about the KBR contract, since the page has been up since at least May 24, 2005 ( http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps1.htm ). The contingency contract was reported on at the beginning of 2006, noting that the construction was pending, that is, not begun. Furthermore, reports of such "camps" were being circulated as far back as the Clinton Administration by at least one conspiracist and Y2K-phobe who wrote for WorldNutDaily: http://web.archive.org/web/19990222062208/http://www.mt.net/~watcher/fema5.html He even says that he's been hearing about these reports "For several years" by 1998. Again, not the KBR contract.
So are you and LindaS confusing "new" KBR facilities for these old lists? This is at the heart of my question.
> I did see two of the ones listed in Arizona and they are ready
> for occupancy. I also read the Presidential executive orders, do
> you also deny those are not accurate?
If Washington already has "800 camps" ready and waiting, why do they need a contract for the rapid construction of new detention facilities?
Also, how do you know the purpose of these "ones" you saw? Has anyone cross-referenced the list of alleged "FEMA camps" with public documentation of facilities operated by the many Federal and state agencies? Maybe some of them are regular old prisons, or POW camps, or immigration detention centers like the Hutto Detention Center.
http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/detention/hutto.html It's interesting that you found them in Arizona, by the way.
The way the ICE is treating people has been a travesty, a documented travesty. It is something tangible that activists can work on here and now. Working for the protection of immigrants' rights and improvements in government policy in that area could also diminish the threat of large-scale detention facilities. Constructive action is better than forwarding scary campfire tales.
Also note that the list of Executive Orders listed on the page I think you're referring to ends with one by Gerald Ford. I assure you that he isn't much of a threat these days. But this also goes to show you that to those who look for things to be scared of, no "news" is ever out of date, and every past policy or thought experiment or readiness exercise remains in active, real-world implementation forever.
Bush has a couple problems that didn't plague Hitler. Bush lowered the morale/image/standing of America -- in our own eyes as well -- rather than raised it. Like the orchestrated S&L crisis under King George I, Bush the Still Lesser has "set" the economy for great trouble ahead. Hitler held massive public rallies and clearly had huge popular support. Bush does not.
Both are scoundrels to be sure, but Bush doesn't enjoy sufficient popular support to do anything of the sort.
The only thing worse than fear-mongering with talk about camps is anyone who dangles it out there in the hopes that a little fear will spur people into action. Fear is an irrational emotion. If people cannot be spurred on by noble pursuits, progress, science, humanistic principles, etc. then they are best left alone.
"Now that habeas corpus has been suspended every American citizen has the constitutional right and duty to take part in the rebellion." (whatfools / nspire)
Hmmm ..
.. we can't have a rebellion without a government; and in America, we can't have a government without a president; we have no president, or are at least unable to produce, for consideration, anything that resembles a president; being unable to produce the body that suspended the Constitutional requirement to produce a body, there is no suspender to have suspended; although it is clear that suspension has occurred and logic demands that therefore a suspender must exist, no evidence of this suspender can be found; I think the best we can do now is to start over by electing a president.
I don't know why this fear issue came up by a few. Bloggers here wrote what they have learned on the subject and what they believe about the issue, in repsponse to an article about what Hoover attempted and Truman ignored. The crux of the matter is, Bush is now attempting the same thing Hoover suggested. Why accuse us or any of fear? Why assume?
BTW PASTOR, you stated, "When the thick hobnailed boots of tyrants do land on our backs, AND THEY WILL."
So evidently you believe we do have a rather serious problem here, perhaps with Blackwater type troops, and if we are hauled off, as you say we may be someday, to inform any bystanders that it is not us who are at fault.
I agree with that, but I don't believe it will do a whole lot of good, it didn't work with Germany's SS and Gestapo troops. Bush is followng Hitler's blueprint to the letter, avoiding the mistakes Hitler made. He already has control of the media and has the Gestapo troops,__ what's next on the script?
I'm not shaking in fear, or hiding under my bed either, just writing opinions and joining the conversation.
Don't know what you're scared of Paul, nothin about any of this frightens me. I am concerned with what Bush and his gang have done and are doing and with his executive orders. I am concerned about Blackwater and how they perform and why do we need to fund them.
Do you deny we have lost some of our most important Constitutional rights and Bush has openly stated the Constitution was just a G-damn piece of paper, and then he proved he was right about something, by ignoring that piece of paper?
Mandela was jailed for 27 years and that didn't stop him. History's great humanitarians, non-violent resistors, etc. went to jail if they had to, and tried to escape if the opportunity arose.
If all these prisons exist -- just waiting to be populated with law-abiding people who neglect their own First Amendment -- then there's only a couple options. One is to move to some place like New Zealand. Yesterday. The other is to resist. Still another is to get paralyzed by fear and see what comes out of that.
Fear only leads one astray. One is led by courage or by nothing.
There's no better patriotism than to use the rights we have.
I appreciate all the angst that I am hearing in this discussion, as I am feeling it, too. However I would encourage us on the left to remain rational and calm, because it is the only real advantage that we have over the right and their hoopla.
What this article helps us to be aware of is the common misperception that the U.S. is a country without faults, that it has been a lone sanctuary for human rights, and is incapable of transgressing the ideals of democracy and freedom. This incident in our history and many like it clearly indicates the ability for the tyrants to rise to positions of power and the danger of relaxing our vigilance against them today.
We need to take action against policies that demean the patriotic freedoms we value in the United States, but the actions need to be pointed, clear and well supported.
When the thick hobnailed boots of the tyrants do land on our backs, and they will, we must make it clear to agressors and bystanders that it is they and not us at fault.
Hey TRB. You tell me and everyone else here, that google is not a source and then give us two Googled web sites that are less than worthless talking and opinions.
I googled fema prisons, then scrolled down to the articel titled, "Fema Consentration Camps Locations and Executive Orders. Found it to be very interesting. I can't swear it's accurate, or on the other hand, that is is not factual. I did see two of the ones listed in Arizona and they are ready for occupancy. I also read the Presidential executive orders, do you also deny those are not accurate?
I don't know where you are coming from, but how I read your posts, you attempt to give the impression that you're the only one worth listening to here. Tell you what, why don't you check out those 800 sites listed, and then come back and tell us they don't exist, or the new high fences around 40 acre lots with inward facing barbed and razor wire and newly constructed open bay barracks are a new amusement park, or maybe cat houses.
Oooh! Shudder. Maybe we should all quit talking, quit posting, hide under our blankets, quit organizing. I do believe in spooks, I do believe in spooks, oh I do I do I do...
The only way out of this, to prevent reverting back to a time in our history in which the anti-American (i.e. anti Bill of Rights) folks were in charge is to exercise our rights to the fullest extent, and encourage our neighbor to do so as well.
It's bullshit that they couldn't have jailed everyone they wanted to. The Japanese interment camps were empty by then. This is demoralizing fear-mongering. They didn't do it because they didn't want to trigger a new civil war. Fear is a delicate thing for people like that to manage.
I don't believe anyone did make that the focus of Hoover. ___ He was pretty ugly however,___ inside and out.
Well if that's what is needed TRB, start investigating if your so concerned. I have personally seen two of the prepared Fema prisons inside and out. if there are 798 others, I couldn't say, I did write that the the website was questionable.
Sorry I replied to your first question. If you already knew so much about the subject, why did you ask? Did you wish to tell someone else they were stupid kool-aid drinkers or show your superior intellect and knowledge?
coco, that is long. Will try to get son to reconnect the printer cord.
Twister22 - holy shit! And there is that date again - 1987! This is a strong indication that Hoover's ideas were passed on and they served some purpose. The list of name part got me.
And the pattern - presumably just for the Mexicans - for starters. Wonder why there is no law against some of the things Lou Dobbs says. Maybe fanning the flames of racism serves as a smoke screen for other things.
Twister22 says:" These camps are to be operated by FEMA should martial law need to be implemented
"Martial Law" strikes me as a presumably emergency measure. How serious of a threat is needed for its implementation? Seems that there is a need to convince the population, initially, that they are, in fact, under threat.
Gail, heard about the MRI thing before. CBC's Marketplace had a special on it called "The Science of Shopping" which was originally broadcast on December 2002. And note that advertisers make use of the same marketing science to sell Coke as they do Guilliani. Isn't it odd that marketing companies can use these MRI's for research while some in the US don't have any access to Health Care at all!
tumbleweed says: At one time, J Edgar was one of the most powerful men in this country. Presidents didn't seem to think they could do without him or he blackmailed some of them into keeping him the head of the FBI.
Or he had powerful friends - and it may be multiple choice!
tumbleweed says: He was alive in the era when people saw a Communist behind every bush. Any behavior that was different from the norm was termed as Communist. As I remember it was a 'witch hunt' in the later 40's and early 50's. I was a teenager in the 50's. Many a persons good name was ruined by these 'fear mongers'.
Those with their "good name ruined" fell into two camps - the powerless who were easily sacrificed and created an atmosphere of shock and fear (in that people thought that they were being infiltrated by the enemy). And then there were those who were trying to speak out against what the American administration was doing and got the Valarie Plame treatment. BTW - do you know that the US government tried to discredit Ralph Nader by trying to spread the rumour that he was gay?
"We the people of the United States / In order to form a more perfect union / Stop pretending that you've never been bad /You're never wrong and you've never been dirty / You're such a saint, that ain't the way we see you / You want to rule us with an iron hand / You change the lyrics and become Big Brother / This ain't Russia, you ain't my Dad or Mother" - Alice Cooper
During her interview on The Hour, Naomi Klein was talking about 9-11 and her latest book and said that Guilliani was not her daddy. She was insinuating that the US was trying to turn Americans into scared children and portray the Administration as the protective parents of the nation.
TonyVodvarka says: and in all that time, no one (no one) dared take pubic notice of what in those days might have been taken as a fairly contoversial relationship.
So you are saying that this is an example of Hoover's powerfulness (and the fear others had of him) that no one would say anything officially about this?
I understand Hoover was a flaming homosexual. Can you imagine waking up and seeing that face in bed next to you?
Truly, a man born 'before his time'...
Hoover was probably infatuated with Stalin. Really a cautionary tale to anybody who thinks that America and Americans are a breed apart and cannot possibly be ruthless monsters. Look how far Bush took them...
Kissinger in drag.
(Or vice versa, depending on your preferences.)
I always thought Hoover looked pretty in pink.
This disgusting monster trained his subhuman knuckle walking Aryan FBI THUGS with Gestapo and Waffen SS officers he brought to DC after WWII so that when he got turned loose against the Civil Rights Movement (to kill maim and torture) and later any movement for ecomnomic or social justice under COINTELPRO (to kill maim and torture) - he trained his "boys" so the drooling thugs would know how to shove the broom handle up a boy's ass while hitting him with a cattle broad. "Teach him his place." Animals. Nothing but animals, "with Jahweh on their side.
Little wonder the South Africans used our "Reservations", e.g. death camps for Native People, to develop their bantu states. The Israeli's used the same model for the Palestinians. I'm sure Hoover showed the SA Black Shirts around like a proud daddy.
Under his tutelage, the FBI systematically hounded the leaders of every movement for economic and social justice into silence or suicide, falsely imprisoned them with cooked evidence, planted evidence, or simply by withholding exculpatory evidence, and finally, if all else failed - they just break in at 3am in the morning and hose down the room with automatic weapons and plant the necessary weapons for Huntley Brinkley in the nightly "News". All to keep the races, the genders, and the classes in their place (slave).
All the monsters won here. The US is an unrepentant genocidal aryan slave empire. Slavering animals like Hoover, McCarthy, Nixon, Mitchell, Meese, and on and on and on - til here we are. Toast.
Now they got the gulags and its all "Legal" just like it was all legal in the Reich. Hoover won. McCarthy won. Hitler won.
Seig Heil. Arbeit Macht Frei.
Pieces of 8.
It's not over till it's clover.
The F.B.I would "apprehend all individuals potentially dangerous" to national security
-ah, the ceuntry old hypocracy of dealing with things that happens, prevent things from happening altogether, and a balanced and workable solution in between.
The former gives the chance to let something irriversible/unrepairable happen, the latter have the chance to let control freaks rule with their limited vision of what's "right", and the third....I need to go back and read more.....
Hoover's clone is currently directing Bush administration policy from behind the curtain.
C'MON, TOTO!!!
This is about to happen here, folks, and here are the enabling components of this plan: (a) HR1955/S1959 (The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Act of 2007), (b) KBR's direct and indirect influence/control over this piece of legislation, (c) the already completed construction by Halliburton of over 800 detention camps throughout the U.S., capable of housing 20,000 prisoners each, to be operated by FEMA to detain U.S. citizens deemed to be "enemy combatants" or "news informers," (d) the growth of the "global stabilization professionals" industry (inc. Blackwater) within our borders, and (e) the undoing of our Constitutional rights by the Bush/Cheney administration.
Tell you the absolute truth, I don't give a crap about Hoover's plans. No doubt, he had many secrets and was quite obsessed with his vendetta. Thank the Universe his plans never became concrete. On the other hand, this administration, as equally obsessed and with an evil agenda being orchestrated by their MASTERS with the complicity of a cowardly, cow-towing Congress, should have us scared out of our wits and resisting with what power we have left. Be afraid...be very afraid! This administration is at the root of all the supposed terrorism.
It is pretty well established that Hoover was able to stay in office so long because he used the FBI to collect data on members in congress in order to control them. Cheney also has his own private secret service. Maybe that is why many members in congress are so compliant with this administration. Maybe that is why impeachment is off the table.
As a woman, I don't have that worry KEM PATRICK:
binnnn says: The F.B.I would "apprehend all individuals potentially dangerous" to national security
What do you think happen in Quebec in 1970 when Trudeau brought in the War Measures Act in response to the October Crisis. I think that it was Jean Cretien who suggest that Trudeau make this move. Luckily, it only happened for a very short time.
One needs a crisis to "justify" these things. The Cold War was a manufactured crisis.
So Hover wanted to be Truman's Cheney.
It is important that this came out. It shows just what the powers-that-be are capable of. They're after us all regardless of how we're labeled.
Actually, part of me would like to see them try it. Considering how much of the population is against this admininstration. Maybe that would stir everyone up and make the people realize that we're all in this together.
Those scumbags may have built the camps for U.S. citizens who have a conscience, but it is likely that they are the ones to be reeducated if they aren't killed outright or hung. Their biggest mistake was in allowing anyone that could make their mark buy a gun. Now there is a decided surplus of weaponry in the U.S. and no shortage of the abused and disenfranchised to wield it.
I think J. Edger spent too much time alone but what's a Writ of Habeas Corpus or the Rule of Law in this government?
the economic system is unravelling, and thus the ruling class pursues similar measures in anticipation of massive unrest. the events in new orleans are an instance.
A recent PBS or Booknotes program described the loyalty interviews made by authorities administering the Japanese internment camps during WW II. These interviews were conducted in order to release internees who had applied to be released to work in defense industry factories, where there were labor shortages. The designers of these interviews were tiny-minded; just as Hoover's FBI had these cockymanie ideas about "loyalty". Just imagine what is going on in our terrorist gulags today, to measure "loyalty" or "hostility", via torture or "smart interviews" such as Hoover's program. Tiny-minded Bush has no problem: "Whoever is not for us, is against us." Saves a lot of time and trouble, and doesn't worry about the niceties of habeas corpus. I often wonder whose idea it was to name the Washington, DC headquarters of the FBI after Hoover? I think that if we can erase Benedict Arnold's patriotism during our war of Independence, we have better reasons to erase Hoover's name off the FBI building.
vaudree
-One needs a crisis to "justify" these things. The Cold War was a manufactured crisis.
---------IMO, its about mind sets. It might sound cruel to some, but maybe it could inspire us to see problems that arose as unavoidable, accept it as plainly as we will get thristy everyday. No one can make perfect decisions on everything every time, and there are plenty who make HUGE mistakes and later realized it. But this is not to say these kind of things happening is okay. Its about what to do in response to these crap happening. How the heck do we look deep enough to find the root of these problems, how do we remember this mistake so when a similar one appears on the horizon, whether it be from another person or about to be committed by our selves, that we can be aware of it and react to it?
In some retrospect I actually thank Bush for making his mistakes, which I have learend alot from. Fuck you ignorance, I don't care how long it takes but I will chase you down and try to eliminate you until I die. Even if you keep on prevailing over me from day to day
Problem is, it doesn't surprise us.
LindaS,
What is the source for your camp claim? Last I heard, KBR was awarded a contract to be ready to build detention camps for undocumented immigrants when they were told to build them. Are you saying they've been told to build them already? And did you know that KBR is no longer part of Halliburton?
Sources, please.
"The Constitution says habeas corpus shall not be suspended unless when in cases of rebellion..."
That pretty much says it all. No matter how corrupt, criminal or terrorist the government becomes, we have no right to rebel against them. Wasn't this nation formed from rebellion in the first place? The comments about our current political despots mirroring the tactics of Hoover are right on the money. More and more I believe they do 'have something' on the Dems be it coercion, bribes, extortion or threats. I'm sure Pelosi and Reid understand very well what happened to Paul Wellstone or that the only people to receive anthrax letters were Dems opposed to the Patriot Act. The powers that be have made it quite clear they no compunction about destroying anyone who seriously interferes with their plans for a one world government. Just look at what CFR President Richard Haass has to say (and who its members are):
http://www.cfr.org/publication/9903/sovereignty_and_globalisation.html
Or listen to what the late Aaron Russo learned from Nick Rockefeller:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm
Google Fema prisons TBR. You can also read the presidential direcitves there that Bush has signed into law.
One problem, there are few others to confirm how accurate the articles are. However, if you wish to take the time to visit some of the over 800 prepared prison sites listed, you may discover that indeed they do exist. Some have huge crematoriums, able to 'process' up to 10,000 inmates a day.
"The Constitution says habeas corpus shall not be suspended unless when in cases of rebellion…"
The Bushites always get everything bass ackward. Now that habeas corpus has been suspended every American citizen has the constitutional right and duty to take part in the rebellion.
I think you got me 'bass ackward', whatfools, if you think I'm a Bushite. Did you read past the first couple lines? And I believe habeas corpus has been un-suspended for the time being anyway. But don't hold your breath on that one.
If it has been suspended, why are prisoners held in prisons, still not being charged with a crime.
Fascists (of whatever nationality) are always ready to suspend freedom of the people for their own agenda; that's who they are.
Why does it take so long to find out things like this?
Because there is only one Keith Olberman.
Just a historic point... Ever notice how all the power people who cloak themselves in the "true patriot" garb and jabber really have subversive intent -- if not outright resentment of American ideals -- particularly what used to be civil liberties? It's true -- partriotism is the last resort of societal scoundrels. Hoover was a sicko and would certainly be an everyday player in Bush World. The current White House would be a place he could truly call "home."