Lakota Sioux Secede From US, Declare Independence
Political activist Russell Means, a founder of the American Indian Movement, says he and other members of Lakota tribes have renounced treaties and are withdrawing from the United States.
“We are now a free country and independent of the United States of America,” Means said in a telephone interview. “This is all completely legal.”
Means said a Lakota delegation on Monday delivered a statement of “unilateral withdrawal” from the United States to the U.S. State Department in Washington.
The State Department did not respond. “That’ll take some time,” Means said.
Meanwhile, the delegation has delivered copies of the letter to the embassies of Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile and South Africa. “We’re asking for recognition,” Means said, adding that Ireland and East Timor are “very interested” in the declaration.
Other countries will get copies of the same declaration, which Means said also would be delivered to the United Nations and to state and county governments covered by treaties, including treaties signed in 1851 and 1868. “We’re willing to negotiate with any American political entity,” Means said.
The United States could face international pressure if it doesn’t agree to negotiate, Means said. “The United State of America is an outlaw nation, we now know. We’ve understood that as a people for 155 years.”
Means also said his group would file liens on property in parts of South Dakota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming that were illegally homesteaded.
The Web site for the declaration, “Lakota Freedom,” briefly crashed Thursday as wire services picked up the story and the server was overwhelmed, Means said.
Delegation member Phyllis Young said in an online statement: “We are not trying to embarrass the United States. We are here to continue the struggle for our children and grandchildren.” Young was an organizer of Women of All Red Nations.
Other members of the delegation include Rapid City-area activist Duane Martin Sr. and Gary Rowland, a leader of the Chief Big Foot Riders.
Means said anyone could live in the Lakota Nation, tax free, as long as they renounced their U.S. citizenship. The nation would issue drivers licenses and passports, but each community would be independent. “It will be the epitome of individual liberty, with community control,” Means said.
To make his case, Means cited several articles of the U.S. Constitution, the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties and a recent nonbinding U.N. resolution on the rights of indigenous people.
He thinks there will be international pressure. “If the U.S. violates the law, the whole world will know it,” Means said.
Means’ group is based in Porcupine on Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.
It is not an agency or branch of the Oglala Sioux Tribe. Means ran unsuccessfully for president of the tribe in 2006.
Lakota tribes have long claimed that the U.S. government stole land guaranteed by treaties — especially in western South Dakota. “The Missouri River is ours, and so are the Black Hills,” Means said.
A U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1980 awarded the tribes $122 million as compensation, but the court did not award land. The Lakota have refused the settlement. (As interest accrues, the unclaimed award is approaching $1 billion.)
In the late 1980s, then-Sen. Bill Bradley of New Jersey introduced legislation to return federal land to the tribes, and California millionaire Phil Stevens also tried to win support for a proposal to return the Black Hills to the Lakota.
Contact Bill Harlan at 394-8424 or bill.harlan@rapidcityjournal.com
© 2007 The Rapid City Journal
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope and expect recognition of their independent statehood from Bolivia and Venezuela. I’m glad Russell Means is no longer working with the CIA as he did against Nicaragua.
This is a great move, however, the Sioux tribes that secede should watch their backs. Prevention of Violent Radicalism and Homegrown Terrorism” bill (H.R. 1955)would label these people as radical extremists. The US would be fighting the Indian Wars all over again, and I would hate to see anything happen to the native peoples.
Best of luck…didn’t seem to work that well for Sitting Bull but who knows, maybe this time.
Good luck with that, it didn’t work out for us here in Georgia when we tried to succeed back in 1861.
But, shouldn’t the Kiowa be included in the settlement, since they owned the land before being driven out by the Lakota in 1775?
Finally, some good news. I really hope this doesn’t have a bloody outcome. But it is still a sign that there’s hope for the opressed.
Good luck with that, it didn’t work out for us here in Georgia when we tried to succeed back in 1861.
But, shouldn’t the Akara and the Kiowa be included in the settlement, since they owned the land before being driven out by the Lakota Sioux moving in from Minnesota in 1775?
GO INDIGI.
THE LIGHT AND LOVE of the indigineous people will turn this planet rightside up.
when we all realize we are indigenous - AH! we all rightly belong here. not by tyranny but by love and sharing and STAYING HUMAN.
thank you LAKOTA for giving so much to this planet. please lead us all to our own indigenous roots. please show us how to remove the shackles of colonialism, racism, classism and MONOTHEISM backed BY DEATH.
thank you thank you.
HO.
The Spirit of the Seminole Lives and they are prospering in Florida.
Here is a song I sing about it by Will Mclean…. I’m a little juiced but I remebered all the words!
http://www.retroactive.com/music/osceola.mp3
1
In a dungeon deep in St Augustine chief Osceola wept
For his people and his golden land his body had not slept.
then wildcat said “Oh Chief, I beg you go with me
to stand against our mortal foe
and Osceola raised his proud head high
Said do this before I die
2
Wildcat brother to the grassy waters take the Seminole
There no white man can invade to leave you lying dead and cold
I will not live among such evil men
who mock the sign of truce and flag of white
and honer not their given sacred word
My name will be the light. (Chief Osceola wept)
3
The light that burns in every warriors soul in dark and hidden reaches
They can never drive us from our land or suck our blood like leaches
My spirit walks with those of you who die and
those of you who always will remain
Upon this blood stained blessed flowered land
to fight and fight again (Chief Osceola wept)…
to fight and fight again.
End or repeat first verse.
I thought they should have done it back in 2000 when the DEA bombed their hemp farms out. Better late than never though as like all other tribes, they’ve been mistreated by the US government anyway.
Outstanding!!!!!!!! If all of you want to read a really good book that foreshadows this, read Jeff Benedict’s “Without Reservation.”
Obviously we need another General Custer to settle this once and for all.
I think we have a few of them.
I would feel sorry for the people who are going to find themselves with new landlords, except…
Well, 1) they were never supposed to be there in the first place.
2) I have seen photos of the signs forbidding dogs and Indians from entering bars and stores. (Hey, they were only taken down in the 1970s).
I do have friends who live there, but they can move or simply work with the new government.
After the smoke clears and the bodies are rotted away after we have our next depression, the Indians may have their country back. They’ll likely survive the coming mayhem.
Of course it will not be quite as clean as it was in 1492.
Now Free Peltier!!!!
In the book, Phoenix Rising, by Mary Summerain, her mentor, No Eyes, a blind Lakota indian, predicts the return to native American ways.
It’s a good book; you might want to check it out.
It’s the same American scam. We invade the land we want, then appear honest and decent and enter (through force) into a written agreement with the invaded people, which no one clearly understands and which will have several subsequent forced revisions, then we continue the invasion and accquisition of land’s wealth through continued occupation. The wealthy, greedy elite get the invaded people’s land - mineral, timber, water and agricultural benefits, then renig on origianal agreement and physically silence indiginous opposition. Indians are corralled into detention camps called reservations - poor food, slow supplies, no citizenship - they become non-entities invaders hopes will die.
Try Iraq today and subprime loans - fraud, corruption, greed, indentured servitude, and, as the saying goes, “who benefits?”
And, what the average American doesn’t realize is that he/she is next on the list with falling wages, inflation, loss of jobs, loss of pensions, continued mal distribution of wealth coupled with an open-arms offer to get one’s ass shot off in the Middle East or have one’s head screwed up for life from disease, depleated uranium, or roadside bombs as the VA continues with insufficient and in adequate veterans treatment.
Go back to the Veterans March on Washington in the early 1930s. Republican administration after Republican administration failed WWI vets, who were also suffering the elite’s induced Depression. Check out Maj Genl Smedley Darlington Butler’s encounter with Wall Street.
Or, become a Black Shirted mercenary, make big bucks and responsible only to der Furher.
Americans better watch out! The Lakota are on the right track.
Seems like a good strategy, just hope they stopped up enough of the loopholes so that it doesn’t backfire.
If it works, the strategy will be exported.
My new home…I’m on my way!
Peace and good luck brothers and sisters.
They have a billion dollars in the bank that our government gave them? __ Wanna bet? That money belongs to China now.
Can’t they claim Arizona? ______Oh never mind, that was Mexican property.
This brings tears to my eyes. In a good way. I wonder if they can now shelter American soldiers who refuse to fight the illegal war in Iraq?
At first I thought this was from the Onion. After checking the byline I said “Hooray”. This is great. I hope it doesn’t lead to bloodshed. But fear, in my opinion, is NEVER a reason to not do something. I hope this is just one more straw on the shrub camels back. I hope that bastard has so much to worry about he’s created his own hell. And I wish the very best for the Lakota people. I cetainly recognise their independance.
Little by little people are standing up straight. Little pieces of the truth come out drip, drip, drip. Now if we can keep the democrats from screwing things up… Now I’m depressed again.
Good for them! Now why don’t the rest of the states follow suit! I have been thinking this for years. When the states start seceding then Washington will take notice. They get their power from all these states that claim to be part of a united country. But take away their strength through the combined united of the states and they are isolated. The rest of the world will know that we of the other states of this union of states do not support the unethical genocidal policies of Washington. What are they gonna do? Declare war on all of US? The states that give them their (Washington’s) belief that they are more than just a bunch of thugs. Of course, the south tried this and we know what happened to them. But now its not just the south that wants to secede. Its the north and the south. Could they fight the north and the south? Oh well, its just an idea, which I’m sure people will consider idiotic.
“Means said anyone could live in the Lakota Nation, tax free, as long as they renounced their U.S. citizenship. The nation would issue drivers licenses and passports, but each community would be independent. “It will be the epitome of individual liberty, with community control,” Means said.”
That is what excites me the most. We’ll see how this works. I hope for the best. Native peoples need to lead the way back toward a way of life that is sustainable and just.
We need to look back at the Articles of Confederation and reconsider a lot of those ideas.
Hooray!!! My taxes have been cut by half! Come on folks…this is such a joke. Simple, land was acquired by the strongest, that is how it was. Take a look a the world…it was all divided up…and re-divided up in the same fashion. Come on…when are we going to work on real life problems instead of getting mired down in such mockery as this. I say, give em their independence. No more subsidies. And if they want to take back land that they “claim” was theirs…let em try. I’m sure we have a few farmers in the area that would gladly take care of the up rise!
As for the money that was awarded them…well, we have been giving them free money for centuries…why would the latest be any different.
Interesting and hopeful. Will the Lakota be the vanguard for the rest of the native peoples?
And what will the rest of us do when this outlaw government goes after them? Remember what happened the last time AIM tried to fight back? What will we do to support them? Better to start thinking in these terms before things get much crazier.
Being the change we want to see is no empty slogan. Indeed, it’s the only way toward a sane world.
Is it possible people who are not native Americans to join the Lakota Sioux nation? If so, I’m interested.
If history is any lesson.
The US will now find evidence that Russell Means has, is, is about to or wants to aquire WMD’s. Is planning to align itself with N.Korea & Iran. Time another wounded knee…er we mean negotiations. Best of luck Mr. Means. I do so hope it works. And if it does, I’d be glad to join you.
Lakota brothers and sisters: You rock!
(It’s about fucking time….)
Awwww. How cute.
It’s an interesting try, but it doesn’t have the legal backing of the Oglala Sioux Tribe.
Even then it would be a courageous but tough choice. If the legally accepted Oglala Sioux Tribe declared its treaties void, the U.S. could always impose heavy tariffs to all trade with the tribal nation, require prohibitively expensive passports, cut off all foreign aid except as negotiated, and so on. The U.S. government has never been above starving a sovereign tribe, or a dependent tribe either.
As a native South Dakotan, I’m troubled by the giddy responses above. Do you really believe the federal government won’t do whatever’s necessary to eradicate this movement? It may come to Mr. Means and his comrades being branded terrorists, which equals anything goes, as we’re all aware. This will have a tragic outcome, make no mistake.
But there’s another tragedy here as well. From this progressive’s perspective, tribalism is a more negative than positive force. Aren’t we trying to come together rather than divide apart? Easy words in a place as apartheided as S. Dakota, I know. Means says he’s not doing this to embarass the US - though that’s exactly what’s happened. Whether it’s his intention or not, perhaps this will at least able to shame the US into some kind action in its poorest counties. I just hope it’s not the wrong kind of action …which is what we can probably expect.
Don’t be a fool. The Irish and the people of East Timor are not going to recognize Lakotaland in the face of the US. Hugo Chavez alone will have the honor.
“Means said anyone could live in the Lakota Nation, tax free, as long as they renounced their U.S. citizenship.”
What if you’re not a US citizen to begin with? Well whatever the case.. if it works I’m moving to Lakotaland.
I salute and honor the Lakota Nation.
And the clock…
Tick tock…
I will recognize the Lakota Nation.
While we are at it, I will readily recognize Texas as well.
So all these morons who are robbing our country can go back to the Income tax free state and take their war mongering ways with them. Blackwater, Chevron, Oxy, the Star wars initiative….
I would hope that when Taiwan formally secedes from China, they will recieve the same support from the people posting here.
But I doubt they will…
Greaseman: “I would hope that when Taiwan formally secedes from China, they will recieve the same support from the people posting here.
But I doubt they will…”
Yeah, that excited but fleeting kind of support that’s not nearly as sincere as it is uninformed. Love that.
now that’s what i’m talking about !! this is the PEACEFUL way to fight back against the evilpowers that be…come on people get it together and follow our native brothers fine example…….. in my mind i have already left the stench of bush,behind and the european influences and names they bestowed and now(i’m back) THIS IS; timucuan territory, the village known as seloy) MY HEART’s REALITY !!
An excellent source of background information on this is the 6 hour series now out on DVD entitled “500 Nations.” This is much deeper and more research on the topic than what is covered in Zinns “A People’s History of the United States.”
george w. bush,
Zinn’s “People’s History” was not meant to entirely cover indigenous peoples’ history. Had he done that, you would never be able to finish his book because it would be thicker than the Webster’s Dictionary. If you have ever authored or co-authored a textbook, you would understand that.
Good for them. We never should have killed them all and stolen their land in the first place. Lets give them everything back and let them run the country. They could surely do a better job. Better give the Mexicans back California, Texas, and all the other states we stole from them too while we’re at it. What fools we are.
Gordon Sturrock
http://www.VeteransAgainstTorture.com
GOOD THINKING . . .FROM MOST.
The essential fact is the USA’s lawlessness, shown tgo the world by the criminal in the whithouse who respresents the American people has espoused a level of disregard for law that should have him be impeached, at the very least. The world now understands that the USA has e evolved from the evolution of imperialism from the UK where it was honed to perfection than transported to the new world, the USA, and exacerbated through the Robber Baron economic trading stripping the native people of the homes. The usa than widened the idea into global colonialism and now the Wall Street form of global marauding called globalization.
This brings attention to the point that when a nation becomes rogue and lawless it has to be expunged from the rest of the global community. The behavior of the USA and Canada its little puppy, at Bali was the lowest level of human exclusion from a cooperative effort required to advance concern for the future generations of this globe and the health and well being of the Earth’s inhabitants. But as always Money was the only thought that America and Canada brought to the table.
I hope this movement of the Lakota Nations is successful. I hope that the USA does not create another Wounded Knee, using its CIA, and Marshals office to move the entire Lakota nation to CUBA. I have worked with the indigenous cultures in the Northwest Territories, The Cree Nation and I have worked with those nations of Labrador, the Naskapi and the Montegne’ tribes, people whose life and culture were drained from them until they were shells of their former selves. The USA through economic means uses the same methods to homogenize global cultures and strip them as well with their ideal of democracy.
These become the remains of peoples, left like the model they have become McDonalds’s meat and fries. Their soul, life, and aspirations stripped and they become empty shells. The suicide rate among the indigenous peoples I knew were astronomical as compared to other nations and people. This is what the USA has bred along with a technological disregard for the environment the antithesis of what the indigenous people believed. This model has led to the final count down of ten years before we move into irrevocable global warming and the end of humanity.
This is the legacy of the USA for the world a model of lawlessness and the legacy of George Bush for all people. He has given the world a display of global terrorism, for all to see what terrorism is really like. A model exhibited from one of the world’s most extreme of all terrorists, the presently sitting American president!
IKE
Thank the Great Spirit - a REAL American at last! Will visiting European occupiers be required to order from the menu in Souix?
“This is what the USA has bred along with a technological disregard for the environment the antithesis of what the indigenous people believed.”
Good point, Ike, but there’s really more to it than just the USA. It’s much larger than one country - it’s a whole culture. And, it’s really more than just a European culture - it’s a culture of believing that we can live outside the bounds of nature’s confines.
Take heart - there are still a (very) few who do not live as we do. Perhaps they will flourish once again.
Unfortunately, modern/young natives have been assimilated. Hopefully, their elders told them the stories of the past.
Full recognition. This is justice in action. Fabulous move. Commendations and praise all around.
What a hopeful example.
Long live Lakota nation.
This is brilliant. May they succeed. That is my wish on this Solstice Eve. “Anyone could become a citizen if they renounce the U.S” - I’m ready! I saw a poster recently, of four Native Americans each holding a rifle. “Homeland Security since 1492″. Our country’s foundation is based on genocide, torture, murder, theft, slavery, on and on. I just read today that black slaves built a large, magnificent building in Washington, D.C. And now the truth is coming out, a memorial is built to these poor souls forced to work for the Controllers of the Money. We’re such a “christian” nation. The hypocrisy is rotting the foundation, it will all be coming down soon. Learn to grow your own food.
There are many Indian tribes recognized by the United States who have relationships with the US federal govt based on treaties of the past. As usual the US is often eager to get around these treaties and discard past history.
As a proud citizen of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma I support my brothers and sisters of the Lakota.
I would like to point out that the many Indian nations work together politically in their struggles with the United States government. I offer this link regarding the current issues of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma:
http://www.cherokee.org/PressRoom/2471/story.aspx
This story involves efforts to terminate the Cherokee Nation and the Assembly of First Nations resolution to donounce the termination bill..
You will also find further links at:
www.stoptribaltermination.org
Below is a copy of the letter that folks are asked to send to their members of Congress on behalf of the Cherokee Nation:
Members of the US Congress are usually careful not to let politics interfere with the judicial process. Unfortunately, some are doing just that with H.R. 2824 and other Congressional actions like amendments to reauthorization and appropriations bills, which target the Cherokee Nation because of a citizenship issue that is currently being litigated in U.S. and tribal courts. I urge you to oppose H.R. 2824 and similar amendments to reauthorization and appropriation bills, and let the courts decide.
In March 2007, Cherokee Nation citizens passed by 77% a constitutional amendment requiring citizenship in the tribe to include those who have an Indian ancestor on the federal base roll of the Cherokee people. For decades, the tribe has worked hard to heal the damage done by more than a century of federal policy aimed at assimilating Native people. In the process, the majority of Cherokee people voted to return to what they were before settlers arrived – a community of Indians. The March amendment reversed a year-old policy that had opened Cherokee citizenship to those who lack documentation of Indian ancestry, including descendants of former slaves (known as Freedmen descendants) and others. In response to this democratically adopted constitutional amendment, U.S. Rep. Diane Watson introduced H.R. 2824 to punish the Cherokee Nation for requiring its citizens to be Indian — the same requirement enforced by more than 550 Indian tribes in the United States.
This bill and related appropriations amendments would eliminate 6,500 jobs and all federal funding for critical health, housing, education, child care, and other social services for thousands of elderly, young and needy Americans who are also Cherokee Nation citizens. Furthermore, this bill severs U.S. relations with the Cherokee Nation and threatens fundamental principles of Indian tribal identity and self-governance. If this bill becomes law, the impact of these cuts will create a social and human services crisis that will force local and state agencies to fill the gap.
This legislation leaves the false impression that the Nation expelled all African-Americans from the tribe. This is simply untrue. In fact, the Cherokee Nation is one of the most diverse and inclusive tribes in the United States. There are thousands of African-American Cherokee citizens who were and will continue to be completely unaffected by the constitutional amendment, including more than 1,500 Freedmen descendants who also have Indian ancestors on the federal base roll of our people.
This legislation ignores the fact that litigation on this issue is ongoing in federal and tribal courts. It also ignores the fact that the approximately 2,800 Freedmen descendants who were dis-enrolled by the March vote have been reinstated as citizens with health, housing, education and other vital services while the litigation continues. Ironically, terminating federal funding would hurt these same 2,800 Freedmen descendants by terminating the Nation they seek citizenship into. Finally, it ignores the fact that the Nation has offered to fund genealogical studies to help all Freedmen descendants become citizens by learning whether they have an Indian ancestor listed on the base roll.
This legislation is retribution for a disputed treaty interpretation that belongs in the courtroom and not Congress. Instead of rushing to judgment, Congress should let the courts decide.
I urge you to oppose H.R. 2824 and any related Congressional actions that jeopardize the well-being of the Cherokee Nation.
This is not the American Indian way. We are a patient people and a long suffering people. We know that mutual progress cannot be achieved in this manner. If I were anti-Indian I could not think of a better way to derail Indian progress than this errant activist action. It will scare people who believe that they may lose their land or homes and create a backlash that will result in further illegal takings from American Indian Peoples.
There are good reasoned voices among our Elders and our Teachers. These voices are respectful and wise voices. They understand the real meaning of “oneness” and do not seek disrespectful ways. We understand that progress means progress for all peoples. Unfortunately these more reasoned voices are blocked from all American media. Therefore the only media coverage we get is the sensational, like Russell Means. The Oglala rejected Means. His is an independent effort that lacks wisdom and colors all Indians as irresponsible and radical. We are not such Peoples.
If you really want to be a helper to American Indian Peoples work to open up the media to our voices. Let it be known that our voices are required in these times of unease and hardship. Make it known that programs on culture is fine but programs on political issues are as important.
Our land was not taken like so many people assume. It was treatied, and America has broken all of it’s treaties. There are over 350 Treaties with American Indian Nations and not one has been kept. So lets speak of the Treaties and lets speak of Indian Trust, www.indiantrust.com Let’s speak of the Great Genocide, the purposeful direct and indirect killing of over one hundred million American Indians. Let’s speak of Indian Law in America being based upon the Doctrine of Christian Discovery and Dominion.
This calls into serious question the separation of Church and State in America.
http://www.fulcrumbooks.com/productdetails.cfm?sku=642-2
Let us speak of these things too to the American People via the media. This is what is needed.
I might note here that among the worst media offenders is National Public Radio. Why?
Well said Doom & Gloom.
Our Indian issues do not get covered in the mainstream media and one must dig very deeply to find the truth.
Thank you my Brothers and Sisters in The Nation! I will be watching to see what AmeriKKKa does about this and if the passports are recognized by the Facsist government of the US, I’ll be signing up. FREE Leonard Peltier!!
I support my brothers and sisters in this effort from the bottom of my heart. However, I lack confidence in the US Government’s willingness to accept this action. They have not been honest or true in the past and they are in fact a rogue nation. The odds are that they will use force to block this action. Whether this is an embarrassment or not in the international community will be disregarded, especially in the current shameless administration. I would like to be wrong on this, but I don’t think I am.
Wild Winter
Mr. Means’s declaration of Native American rights has been a long time coming.
The paragraphs below are excerpted from:
http://www.mediamonitors.net/gillespie6.html
Roy H. May, Jr., writing in Joshua and the Promised Land, notes: “During the Middle Ages, European Christians launched military campaigns to take the Holy Land from the Muslims. Early on the Crusaders took Jericho. Following the example of Joshua 6, they marched around the city led by clergy carrying sacred banners and pictures of Christian saints. When the walls did not fall down as expected, they attacked and overran the city. Then they massacred the inhabitants. Jews were locked in their synagogue and burned alive. Even some of the Crusaders were horrified by the slaughter.”
As May points out, the great American experiment in democracy was founded upon Biblically authorized land theft and slaughter: “The Puritans who disembarked in Massachusetts in 1620 believed they were establishing the New Israel. Indeed, the whole colonial enterprise was believed to have been guided by God. . . . Promised Land imagery figured prominently in shaping English colonial thought. The Pilgrims identified themselves with the ancient Hebrews. They viewed the New World as the New Canaan. They were God’s chosen people headed for the Promised Land. . . . This self-image of being God’s Chosen People called to establish the New Israel became an integral theme in America’s self-interpretation.” But to write, as May does, that “most land was taken violently,” is to diminish the savagery of the European conquest of America.
In New England Frontier: Puritans and Indians 1620-1675 by Alden T. Vaughan, we learn that the Puritans did not merely kill their native enemies but savagely mutilated them, too. They frequently set fire to native villages, shooting down those who were fortunate enough not to be burned alive. When they allied with a tribe, the Puritans demanded the body parts of their enemies as proof of the tribe’s sincerity. After battle they often sold captured natives into slavery, and they were not averse to looking on as their native allies roasted and ate the dead. The Puritans viewed themselves as God’s enforcers of law and order, prayed for guidance before setting out to hunt down their native enemies, and justified their own savagery by proclaiming their enemies to be “Satan’s horde” who had “sinned against God and man.”
May notes that, “Land rights of native Americans were never taken seriously. Rather, they were seen as obstacles to the colonists’ need for land. The Puritans did not respect the farms of Native Americans. They sought ‘legal’ ways to get their land. If a Native American broke one of the rigid Puritan religious laws, the fine was paid by giving up land. In this manner, some Puritans were able to amass large landholdings through the Massachusetts courts. John Winthrop, for example, obtained some 1,260 acres along the Concord River. . . . When the 1600s ended, most Native Americans in New England had been killed or driven away.”
One hundred and sixty years later and half a continent to the West, the lot of Native Americans had not improved. In 1864, at Sand Creek in the Colorado Territory, a Methodist lay preacher and U.S. Cavalry officer, Col. John M. Chivington planned and led a liquored-up troop of irregular cavalry in an unprovoked surprise attack against a peaceful and unsuspecting native village. Over 200 Arapahos and Cherokees, mostly women and children, were slaughtered and mutilated.
“The women and children were screaming and wailing, the men running to their lodges for their arms and shouting advice and directions to one another . . . Many of the people had preceded us up the creek, and the dry bed of the stream was now a terrible sight: men, women, and children lying thickly scattered on the sand . . . We . . . came to a place where the banks were very high and steep . . . and the older men and the women had dug holes or pits under the banks, in which the people were now hiding . . . Most of us . . . had been wounded before we could reach this shelter; and there we lay all that bitter cold day from early in the morning until almost dark, with the soldiers all around us, keeping up a heavy fire most of the time . . . That night will never be forgotten as long as any of us who went through it are alive . . . Many who had lost wives, husbands and children, or friends, went back down the creek and crept over the battleground among the naked and mutilated bodies of the dead. Few were found alive, for the soldiers had done their work thoroughly . . .” said George Bent, a Southern Cheyenne.
“. . . I did not see a body of a man, woman, child but was scalped; and in many instances their bodies were mutilated in the most horrible manner, men, women, and children–privates cut out, etc. I heard one man say that he had cut a woman’s private parts out and had them for exhibition on a stick; I heard another man say that he had cut the fingers off an Indian to get the rings on the hand . . . I also heard of numerous instances in which men had cut out the private parts of females, and stretched them over the saddle bows, and wore them over their hats, while riding in the ranks,” reported First Lieutenant James Connor, United States Army.
The Sand Creek Massacre outraged Easterners, but it seemed to please many in the Colorado Territory. Chivington took a leading role in a Denver celebration where he delighted audiences with war stories and displayed 100 native scalps. Later denounced after a congressional investigation, Chivington was forced to resign. When asked at a military inquiry why children had been killed, one of the soldiers quoted Chivington as saying, “Nits make lice.” Chivington had come to Colorado to avoid more hazardous duty in the Civil War battles then raging in the South. He was known as a militant abolitionist, but his views on race seem to have been inconsistent and confused at best, not unlike some Americans’ views today.
Colonization schemes and ideologies based on Promised Land/Chosen People theology tend to corrupt and demoralize Judeo-Christian colonists almost as effectively as they damage, displace, and destroy communities and unhinge those unfortunate enough to have their lands, homes, and families targeted by Judeo-Christian colonizers. In 1996, the United Methodist Church officially apologized to Native Americans for the crimes of Col. John M. Chivington and the Sand Creek massacre. In the weeks after the September 11th attacks, President George W. Bush, yet another Texan and a Methodist, made a public comment that harkened back to an earlier era in American history: “When I was a kid I remember that they used to put out there in the Old West a wanted poster. It said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive.’” History is not always kind to those who resort to wholesale slaughter in the name of security interests when somewhat narrower personal and partisan political interests, commercial interests, and national aggrandizement are the actual motivating factors. Promised Land/Chosen People theology/ideology and the demoralizing ultra-nationalistic criminality it so often engenders pose an unacceptable threat to human civilization in an era of weapons of mass destruction. But perhaps such concerns have escaped both the president and Bill Moyers.
Campaigns of land theft and mass murder based upon Judeo-Christian theology were also carried out enthusiastically by European Christians in Central and South America and in Africa. Among the Afrikaners, May notes that the Promised Land/Chosen People theology ultimately, “found its political expression and program in the National Party. This program was based on racial separateness and the belief that Afrikaners were set apart for a special mission in God’s designs for political organization. Apartheid and Promised Land went hand in hand.”
White man came across the sea
He brought us pain and misery
He killed our tribes, he killed our creed
He took our game for his own need
We fought him hard we fought him well
Out on the plains we gave him hell
But many came too much for cree
Oh will we ever be set free?
Riding through dustclouds and barren wastes
Galloping hard on the plains
Chasing the redskins back to their holes
Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom a stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack
Run to the hills run for your lives
Run to the hills run for your lives
Soldier blue on the barren wastes
Hunting and killing their game
Raping the women and wasting the men
The only good indians are tame
Selling them whisky and taking their gold
Enslaving the young and destroying the old
thanks cmichaelg49 for that great post. i’ve been saying the same thing for a while…xianity is not a religion of peace, it has a bad history
What is surprising is that Means & Co. took this long to come up with this strategy. It is brilliant in its’ simplicity and directness. Unlike the nut bag white separatists militia types who issued their own government documents in the 90’s, they are sympathetic (unless you’re an Ayn Rand fan).
Blackhawk, Cochise, Chief Joseph, men such as that could have re-written our Costitution. They gave so much wisdom and fairness and recieved nothing but sorrow or death from the white man.
The briefest speech ever given by a man in a treaty conference of leaders of Indian Nations and Washington diplomats, after we had killed off most of the buffalo, so the English cattle barons could increase their fortunes here, was attributed to an Indian Chief, who stood and speakig English said only this,__ “Goddamn a potato.”
Long Live The Lakota!
Just a short observation of the base justification used to steal Land and murder Natives/Original Citizens of the Americas by the millions:
“The theft of land and a wholesale genocidal campaign against the Native Americans was a product of the the declared concept of Manifest Destiny by John L. O’Sullivan in 1839, defended by the misinterpretation of scripture. Manifest Destiny ln reality germinated at the first British colony established at Jamestown, VA in 1607. Lets not also forget the imperial desires of “Cabeza de Vaca” for the Queen of Spain in the early 1500’s during his forays into Southwest Indian Country, resulting in much bloodshed.”
“Manifest Destiny today has morphed into the legal concept of Eminent Domain in modern litigious America, achieving theft and cultural genocide by other means. Manifest Destiny was the base justification to absolve the quilt and shame of early Anglo’s and Conquistadors of Spain for the genocide, cultural destruction and land theft of Native Americans.”
http://www.cafepress.com/junkyardgraphix/2818439
Wow….what incredible news! Sounds like the native New Orlean people should secede as well….I would support their efforts to recolonize and kick the US out as well.
peace
All the best of luck to the Lakota peoples and all American and Canadian First Nations. May they succeed in their battles against systemic injustice.
Wish they’d absorb this part of Michigan…sounds like Fun!
Sure will enjoy seeing the Briefs and legal-claims once finalized.
I’ve long wondered how a group of ‘Johnny-come-lately’ immigrants can enter an already-occupied land, slay/drive-off/absorb or otherwise make an indigenous-people ‘extinct’, and then file ‘valid claims’ to the lands so ‘won’. This will be the first-time in modern-Era that such an invading-people have to ‘justify their claim’ (the AmerInds, such as the Lakota, didn’t enter the Americas until the 8,000 BC-or-so Alaskan land-bridge, and then totally wiped-out the existing-peoples — who had first-crossed such much-earlier, around 30-35,000 BC).
The Lakota have a Supreme Court ruling in thier favor. That land is illegally occupied, the only question is what to do about it. With a life expectancy of 44 years it’s time for Lakota people to stop eating shity government food and do something for thier people. For all people because what deminishes one man, deminishes all men.
There is nothing keeping the Kiowa from stating thier position here.
I fully support the Lakota’s decision to choose independence.
Greaseman: “I would hope that when Taiwan formally secedes from China, they will recieve the same support from the people posting here.
Sorry, Greaseman, if the DPP ever actually rolls those dice, China will squash Taiwan like a cockroach, and certainly offer no quarter to the KMT, either. China’s been prepared and preparing to invade for over fifty years. And support? It won’t matter: the US would unquestionably back down on its promise to defend Taiwan. I fear the same about the giddiness shown in comments here regarding the Lakota: the American people couldn’t even get it together to prevent (or stop) a horrible war in the Middle East, and I doubt they’d be prepared to do what it would take to keep Blackwater-ish thugs from squashing the Lakota. Sure, the Lakota could gather together ouside the jurisdiction of US courts, but it would likely be behind the wire and concrete of a FEMA prison, operated Gitmo-style.
Perhaps the best outcome would indeed be embarrassment for the US.
I just wish the rest of us could secede from The United States of Texas Dictators.
Congratulations to the Lakota people. The imperialist, racist, war-profiteering leaders of the United States never considered you, the original inhabitants of America, as Americans anyway. Good luck, and I’ll be rooting for you
I think the good people of the United States of America have a decision to make.
Hooray for the Lakota! I officially recognize your independence and your rights as a sovereign state. I hope that your transition to independence will be a peaceful affair.
Also, since so many posters seem to overwhelmingly approve of the Lakota’s move towards sovereignty, I hope you also support the Hawai’ians movement towards independence. I, for one, fully support the Queendom of Hawai’i and their sovereign statehood.
Lakota Shomota, get real a holes you aint going nowhere and aint getting nothing, you really think that wasted time and energy is going to get you autonomy from the US. Don’t waste your time, breath, or don’t waste ours eaither
I hear the Caucasians in South Dakota are pretty racist towards the Lakotas. Notice how the newspaper made Mr. Means’ face red. I’ve seen very few “red” Native-Americans. They were ones that got a sun burn.
Hey Salvation- you must be a product of the chimps “no child left behind”. I see similar speech patterns to the chimp in your mindless rant.
I think a declaration from the rest of the world to declare independence from the USA and the criminals that run it would be a better proposition. Just think a world without the USA now isn’t that a dream worth cherishing.
In light of the fact that the US government itself is no longer constitutional, it is therefore illegal and illegitimate and all entities, individuals, tribes, states are fully justified in seceding. Not only has the federal government become illegitimate, it has also become monstrous and dangerous to domestic and world peace. It has created permitted the existence of a dog-eat-dog society pitting class against class with the rich clearly the big beneficiaries. This has been the rule and not the exception. Periods of reform have always been reversed just as the New Deal and Great Society reforms are now being reversed by the right wing fascists who always hold the real power here. The United States is an evil entity which ought to be broken up into seven or eight smaller countries with no nuclear weapons and social democratic parliamentary systems. That is the ONLY hope if a remote one.
I have no idea what will come of this. Even passing acquaintance with the history of how the federal government has treated Indian nations (AND people) should make us a bit wary, and cautious. It’s not as if the U.S. has ever been honorable, fair, or minimally decent.
I hope that this brings good things for the Lakota people, who may have the WORST infant mortality stats, and the worse mortality stats for men, and who sure as hell could use some justice, and some respect. But I’m not optimistic.
I suggest targeted campaign contributions. Corporations can do any damn thing they want IF they pay the right tribute.
Unless SALVATION is a bitter member of the Lakota, sounds like Klan to me.
mcpete, maybe it’s the Chimp himself since his punctuation, spelling, and command of the English language is so poor. Even he gets on the “Internets” occasionally.
aww, I’ve been wanting to secede for years! I just didn’t have a place to secede to, or people to secede with! Is this my chance? Is this your chance? We should all travel out and show our solidarity and unity, right? Exodus.Put our money and our lives where our mouth is.
As an historian of early Northeastern/Transatlantic America, this news is very meaningful to me—First it confirms what I’ve known first hand in many Native people I have worked with, that there is nothing “separated” from other things in their experience of the universe, especially one’s spirituality and way of daily life. So I am in a way “not surprised” at this “radical” secession-move, for it cuts to the root with a clean stroke (we are not represented by this government) and re-connects so many things that were deliberately broken by colonial powers for their own convenience. Imagine a world where what you say and promise actually means something. Also, it is a bucket of cold fresh water in the face of all other “messages” in the mainstream culture. From the very first, the Europeans perceived how very well Native peoples were living in their world on their terms, and openly discussed how to “change” or “reform” the “natures” of Native people so that they would want all of Europe’s claptrap consumer goods. (Some Europeans saw this too and objected: Thomas Morton of Merrymount for example, whose first American poetry in English owed at least half of its inspiration to direct friendships etc. with Native Americans). Now at last they are standing up again to say—we really don’t need much from you “liberators” and, seeing the path you are on, have decided to part company. That is what I’ve observed time and again, that the secret of freedom is to have the nerve to WALK OUT on power structures that no longer serve; and maybe in that we can see again some of the tap-roots of our own Constitution (”when government becomes abusive it is our right, our duty to throw off such government” Jefferson wrote)….So to all this I say: Ah-HO! Will be following this closely….
“This is not the American Indian way. We are a patient people and a long suffering people. We know that mutual progress cannot be achieved in this manner.”
Tell that to the Abenakis of Maine who expelled the first Plymouth Company settlement. Had other tribes done likewise, the long collective “trail of tears” that natives have long suffered may not have happened.
Now, it is time for native peoples of the world to take control of their destiny. It may be humanity’s last hope.
“aww, I’ve been wanting to secede for years!”
Yeah, I’ve been aiming for the wrong thing. All this time I’ve been trying to succeed!
Greaseman, Stilba, and thewonderingyou,
Taiwan is a separate and unique country. How can you secede when you are already COMPLETELY self-governing?
Taiwan has clearly stated that it has no governance or control over China.
China has no governance or control over Taiwan. Taiwan’s situation is is not at all the same as that of China’s ‘autonomous zones’ of Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Macao.
China may be keeping Taiwan out of the UN and WHO, but China does not tax or police the people of Taiwan or issue Taiwan money, passports, visas, or drivers licenses. Taiwan has it’s own army, a free and rowdy media, and is completely self-governing. Unlike the USA, the people of Taiwan freely elect their own presidents in truly transparent elections.
As for the Lakota seceding from the USA? More power to them! The biggest problem I see is the unclear definition of land–of course reservations are starting points. Considering how much money the US government owes the Native Americans, the US might actually save money by letting the Lakota secede. Will we have to use passports and visas to enter or leave Lakotaland?
Luck and love to y’all Lakota.
And Russell Means, hero.
It’s vitally important for everyone to understand that this isn’t just the Lakota Nation’s battle. This concerns everyone. Please google “bilderberg group” They are the “international elitists” who are pulling all the strings here. In 1954 they declared domestic war on the American Public.
They are poisoning, robbing and attacking us all on a daily basis.
Please read this>>>http://www.akasha.de/~aton/swfqw.html
It is called “Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars” It is the bilderberg group’s aka international elite’s, declaration of war against all of us. There you will find the true answers to everything that is going on. Here they condemn themselves in their own words. People MUST read this, and realize that it’s for real! We’re all in this together!
“The history of liberty, is the history of resistance” -Woodrow Wilson
Praise and Honor to the Lakota for making a stand!
In the age of political correctness- they will have the support of the whole nation. If only Custard was a gay leaning feminine coward the entire USA is now, they would never had to wait. I can’t wait to see their policy toward muslims and global warming.
GO LAKOTA!!! Establish diplomatic ties with San Francisco, too. KICK ASS AND TAKE NAMES- WE’RE FER YA!!!!
May Great Spirit bless and free all of us who choose to who honor the gift of life.
Group,
go to the rapidcityjournal at rapidcityjournal.com and read the blog on this story and you will find your racism alive and well in S.D.
It’s to late on a friday night for me to read all the above responces (or even spell words correctly) but ,since the first first time I heard Russell Means on one of David Barsamian’s programs ,I knew this was a man I could relate with.
I’m with you Russell !
ANYTHING I CAN DO ,I’m Tryin.
Namaste
I am Oglala Lakota and know Russ somewhat (he is distant blood relative). I have participated in many meetings with him and always found him to be sincere in his attempt to free his people peacefully. In the Summer of 99 at his ranch in Porcupine (Address is S.D. sadly) this abrogation of treaties was discussed, the expected outcome was renegotiation of the usual and accustomed places of the Oglala Lakota, the Tetuwan Oyate and the Oceti Sakowin (the confederacy). It was felt that this area should be an a minimum from the Canadian Shield to the teton mountains in Wy. to the woods of Minnesota and down to the republican forks (river) of Kansas. 8 years have passed and I now see that this is coming to light. I am happy and excited about this, the problem is is that the assimilated minds of some Lakota will kill this in it’s tracks. The people (Oglala Lakota )who love there oppressors and it’s agenda more than there family itself. This is sad but true. Case in point to be a U.S. military vet is to be honored above all else locally. To support drugs, rapist and killers will not bring the wrath of the people down on you as it will if you spoke of the Veterans of the U.S. Military in what they perceive as negative. We want democratic socialism as a government and economy and know very well what capitalism has done to our families yet we speak as though we are extreme right wing republican christian zealots. We actually have a law on the books that prevents U.S. flag desecration, yet when pressed we will invoke the 1st amendment of the U.S. constitution and claim to have gone to wars to protect it (by the way it was a vets group that lobbied for the law). We are truly schizophrenic as a people. Russ Means is a beacon of hope.
Maybe “Custer” Bush can send a whole army division to South Dakota, put on his flight suit for a photo op and declare “Mission Accomplished”
This is good news… a new age is dawning
and I’m excited to be alive to be a witness
to a new time for justice and peace to
prevail.
I also agree with the above poster who talked about how destructive the “chosen
people syndrome” is.
Best wishes to the Lakota and the Palestinians.
Good luck. I hope there’s not a casino hidden in their plans.
Cankpe Opi, yes I read those racist blog postings as well. Unfortunately the majority of the population in this whole region is very reactionary and obnoxious. Most of them did vote for Bush twice after all…
Cankpe Opi, I too read the racist blog postings, which only further confirm my suspicion that SALVATION is a Klansman.
Foolish!. If anyone can live in their land, will they (the Indians) welcome our Black Brothers? And will there be jobs, land to buy, homes to buy? Or will the Indians steal back their land from the white settlers? Surely there must be a more rational way to deal with their loss. What disturbs me the most about some Native Americans who I know have suffered in the past and present is their unwillingness to recognize the suffering of so many whites and blacks who have never owned ANY Land and who are still struggling to pay their debts, their mortages for houses they will probably never really own. All the land should be equally divided for each person or family. Common sense and compassion is the only way.
Now, that is reparations without an apology. Free land red man, free the land! Wabun Inini would be proud.
“bligh December 21st, 2007 12:13 pm
Good luck with that, it didn’t work out for us here in Georgia when we tried to succeed back in 1861″
What a vulgar, inappropriate comparison
Comparing a brave and noble people to Confederate rat filth
Well left,
Ya know, I’m starting to understand the South’s hatred of the big Yankee Government from the north that shoves everything down your throat all the time…..
Good for these tribes! This dilemma will completely tax all five of GWB’s remaining brain cells: and you know he will send the Blackwater goons after these tribes anyway. No Taxes? Only Skull and Bones members and the selected elite pay no taxes!
Independence? The “freedom’s on the march” feds are no doubt getting in their FEMA swat vans to “liberate” the good indians from these “domestic terrorists.”
Lets hope this spreads to all the other tribes!
Go Indian Nation!
Hey pacplyer ,
I’ve got a little Lakota blood and I’m so proud right now
But it is totally unfair to compare the indigenous people trying to reclaim their stolen land/rights/heritage
to
A bunch of uneducated bigots fighting to keep an economic system alive that involved enslaving an entire race of people
I get what you’re saying but I would argue that it isn’t the North doing the shoving. George Bush is from a scumpit called Texas, and most of our leaders of late have been southerners, and I would argue that it is these southerners lockstep marching off to eternal redness who are pushing their inappropriate vulgar hate version of religion and great-divide economic policies down the throats of the rest of us.
And I mean that sincerely,
If the Indian tribes all across the land do the same thing: succeed, maybe California will consider it since our laws allowing marijuana and smog controls are being OVER RIDDEN by a Outlaw Federal Nazi Regime in Washington D.C. (Both sides of Bushs’ family traded with Hitler during WWII.)
Wouldn’t that be cool to wake up in an America where indian people have lead us into full revolt!
YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
(some of the timid responses above by native americans are tragic. They need to being willing to sacrifice their lives if necessary to keep freedom from slipping from everybody’s fingers.)
pac
“The tree of Liberty must be refreshed every so often with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” - Thomas Jefferson
Schidt!
I spell like bush. I meant SECEDE
“#
Jaded Prole December 21st, 2007 12:01 pm
I hope and expect recognition of their independent statehood from Bolivia and Venezuela. I’m glad Russell Means is no longer working with the CIA as he did against Nicaragua.”
Interesting to learn that he worked with the CIA at all, all the more so with respect to Nicaragua given the hell the U.S. helped to rein in on the innocent and defenceless people there.
It’d be also interesting to get links to resources providing enough detail, information on that work of his with the CIA. But I also understand that it’s surely too late to say this now. Given the many posts made here, I expect that Jaded Prole isn’t watching this series of posts anymore. Maybe someone else seeing this post of mine knows of such resource links and will provide some though. ?
“A U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1980 awarded the tribes $122 million as compensation, but the court did not award land. The Lakota have refused the settlement. (As interest accrues, the unclaimed award is approaching $1 billion.)”
EXCELLENT CALL that was on the part of the Lakotas. $122MN was nothing for what was stolen from them.
“In the late 1980s, then-Sen. Bill Bradley of New Jersey introduced legislation to return federal land to the tribes, and California millionaire Phil Stevens also tried to win support for a proposal to return the Black Hills to the Lakota.”
NOW THAT IS NICE, GOOD, GREAT to read. However, while their proposals were right, being that far from Lakota lands makes it very easy to state such support. I wonder what people of the five states in question, of Lakota territory, say or have said.
I don’t blame them one bit.
Some history that I am shocked that some don’t understand. One blogger said good luck, “but it did not work for Georgia in 1861″. Sorry to say that GA did not have a Constitutional leg to stand on, but in this case the Lakota have treaties that spell out the land that the Lakota are entitled too that grant them all rights within. It is because of such treaties that the Navajo and other tribes have their own courts/police force/jurisdictions/and the rights to issue their own passports. See “Winds of Change, A Matter of Promises” and the Onondaga reservation in New York. Good Luck and strength to all Native Americans. This is a wonderful holiday message and I pray that all Natives get finally see justice delivered even if it is over 5 centuries too late!!!!
Hey GaarScott
It is this same ignorant racism that allowed such things as Sand Creek, The Washita, or Wounded Knee. Not to mention the ghettos in Poland, the trains delivering human goods to death camps in Eastern Europe etc. I challenge you to read some history and grow some compassion for others, that is if you can read through a sheet?
shokulan: I live in Taiwan, and I certainly don’t need a primer on Taiwan’s unique national status. Stilba seems like a smart enough cookie, but Greaseman is most certainly a troll of some ilk. Your brief summary is tastefully concise, and I thank you for distilling it to such precision.
Nevertheless, while I believe as you do that the differences between the Lakota and the Taiwanese are worth mentioning, the similarities can also be useful models for discussion. Means claims that “This is all completely legal” regarding the secession. “Legal,” as we all should know by now, has as many interpretations as it does hues to the American administration–as well as to the world. Treaties, regulations, laws, oaths…these are all constructs of abstract-thought-capable minds, and as such are as malleable as the mushy bags under the eyes of whomever has read this far into the long list of comments to this startling article.
Yet, these few things are quite clear to me: Taiwan is recognised as a de facto independent nation by some, and in some respects, and as merely a “unique” incarnation of China (BIG CAPITAL “C”) by some in other respects. The Lakota “suffer” the same problem–in cultural, geographic, demographic, political, linguistic, and political ways. Struggling for recognition of their asserted independence (whatever that means in today’s world) will be even harder than it is for Taiwan. And the risks are similar, too: a simple pronouncement by Chen could trigger an invasion, or at the very least such social disruption as to be equivalent to a revolution. Politics and elections are not as shiny and clean as you might want to believe here. Corruption is rampant, and the ghost of General Chiang presides over many facets of social and political life here. By the same token, the recent trend of the American body politic leaves little room for democratic activity (the EPA backpaddles out of CAA recognition of California’s right to set air quality standards, national polls fail to influence Congress to abide its constituents’ will, and “The Government” is increasingly seen as an entity separate from “The People.”) What the people want, and to what they are “legally” entitled (be they an ethnic group, a popular majority, a subsumed tribe of indigenous people, or an island off the southeastern coast of the Asian continent) is still subject to the pervasive paradigm of politics: might makes right.
China’s got the marker on most of the rest of the worlds’ capitalist gambling debt, not to mention 900 missiles aimed at my home. America’s got FEMA prisons, Blackwater, Homeland Security’s draconian edicts, and–unfortunately–a powerless public of pathetic peons. This is my big concern. Taiwan’s demonstrated ability to survive as a de facto independent country remains under the internal dark shadow of General Chiang and the external shadow of China’s might, while Mr. Means’ Lakota–despite their arguably “legal” right to secede–remain under the equally dark shadow of the American Empire.
I wish I could believe that the outcome of this secession declaration would be a détente as fruitful as Taiwan’s rise to global acceptance as a de facto independent country, but the passions and the policing embodied in American political and social life scare me too much. I fear bloodshed, which is why my biggest hope is some sort of shaming of the Administration into at least addressing the root concerns that have triggered the Lakota declaration. This is activism in its purest form: being willing to sacrifice everything. To my northern Arcadian and Quebecois neighbors: does this give you any ideas here?
Man, I gotta stop posting after having a few drinks. I get entirely too verbose, don’t you think?
Quote: “Stilba December 21st, 2007 2:35 pm
Greaseman: “I would hope that when Taiwan formally secedes from China, they will recieve the same support from the people posting here.
But I doubt they will…”
Yeah, that excited but fleeting kind of support that’s not nearly as sincere as it is uninformed. Love that.”
END QUOTE.
I understand that perspective, however maybe what it says also applies in a reverse sort of way; if what I have read from usually good analysts is true.
Taiwan’s independence = US encroachment on China
Or very, very much anyway; if not solely or entirely.
Whether or not it entirely equates to US encroachment, i.e, that of the Western ruling elites, I do not know; however I’m sure we can find plenty of strong proof that it very, very much does have this foreign element to it. It’s common enough theme of the West’s ruling elites operating around the world. It is their “trademark”. USAID and the US State Dept have been involed, sticking the US ruling elites’ noses into China-Taiwan affairs, and this immediately tells us that hell is involved.
Anyway, Americans need to first focus on repairing their wrongs before again bigotedly pointing their fingers at others. Until that’s done, Americans have little to no moral grounds for criticising others; and wherein the US repairing its wrongs is to be considered, this involves not only nationally, and within territories forced to become US territories, but quite worldwide too.
When we consider ALL that is pertinent in this respect about the US, then the China-Taiwan matter is very dwarfed, and a big part of the problem there again is capitalism (and Western predation, etc.).
It’s also very non-respectable for or of the Tibetans to try to utilise the hellbent criminal USA against the govt of China; definitely and totally non-inspirational, to say the least. It’s perhaps unintended, but it stinks of hypocrisy, for in doing as they are, with the US vs China, the Tibetans illustrate not seriously caring about the peoples around the world who the US has long and less long committed extreme crimes against, and while speaking of entire peoples and countries, not a relatively small population like the Tibetans are.
If that’s all the Tibetans can muster for noble spirit, then I can and will feel bad about them not getting their way, if they’re entirely right anyway; but that’s the most they’d get from me for sympathy and a little empathy. I would never want to resort to asking EVIL to help me resolve situations affecting me and while I perceive them as problems; NO, it’s not the right way, not the honourable way. There’s nothing at all that is honourable in such approaches to problem resolution(s).
I admit to not know enough of the details of the China-Tibet situation to be able tospeak as an authority, expert on the topic, but it is very obvious that it’s sick of the Tibetans to seek US aid against China, and while the same applies with respect to Taiwan working with hellbent USAID, US State Dept, and any other parts of the US govt. They both make it clear that they don’t care how evil and rogue state (worldwide) the US is, as long as they get their own individual problems “fixed” the way they wish or think to wish.
China’s govt has its wrongs, all or nearly all govts also do, and the US and West constitute the worst rogue-state bunch in the world. All injustices, especially those of serious nature, need to be corrected, but there are worse and lesser cases too.
If China’s economy continues to boom while the US economy continues its course down the sewers, then keep a WATCH on the “movements” of Taiwan. I wonder if it’d make some alterations in terms of its so-far partnering with the US, and really its ruling elites.
And, lastly, will the Taiwanese and Tibetans side with the US govt or the Lakotans in this present march of the latter? I wonder.
Mentioned the secession also my Weblog (in German): http://begleitschreiben.twoday.net/stories/4555539/
Sorry about that — memory doesn’t always serve-accurately:
“There was a temporary positive effect for the natives due to Pontiac’s war. King George III made the Royal Proclamation of 1763 that set aside the lands between the Appalachians and Mississippi River to be reserved for native tribes. That act enraged the land-hungry colonists, and led directly to the Revolutionary War. The colonists regularly ignored the proclamation. Daniel Boone was illegally penetrating into today’s Kentucky by 1769. He had big dreams to build his empire there, but he was not nearly as successful in his empire-building dreams as Washington was.”
http://www.ahealedplanet.net/america.htm#proclamation
A Proclamation, such as this from England’s-throne, was the equivalent of a Presidential/Executive-Order and/or Treaty…it would have been subsequently ‘honored’ and serve as our Law — forbidding, always, any Western-expansion (or ‘Manifest Destiny’) into the American-west. Our ‘Founders’ (chief among them, Washington, our second-President) agreed that a nascent ‘USA’ would have to ’secede’ from Britain in order to continue their ‘foreign-policy’ of deliberately/intentionally breaking all Treaties with Natives for their personal/National-gains [GW himself made himself wealthiest of Founders by inebriating tribal-leaders into ’signatures on Deeds’ for now-surveyed lands/Tracts NOT really ‘theirs-to-sell’, then militarily stealing those-lands he had ’so-defined’, then inveigled].
http://tinyurl.com/2cx7×8
Interesting, re: Russell Means and the CIA/Sandinistas…
www.russellmeans.com/current.htm
bostonphoenix.com/alt1/archive/books/reviews/12-95/RUSSELL_MEANS.html
Happy Winter Solstice.
doomn’gloom,for one thing,there is no such thing as an ‘american indian’.the correct title is ‘native american’….indian is a misnomer and they were an indigenous native peoples,long before they were ‘americans’….may the wind always be at the back of russell means and harlan geronimo……they are ‘true’ men..
Quote: “godlessrant December 21st, 2007 4:54 pm
thanks cmichaelg49 for that great post. i’ve been saying the same thing for a while…xianity is not a religion of peace, it has a bad history”
RIGHT WRT cmichaelg49’s post being excellent alright, while I’ll add that also are the posts by Doom n Gloom and trang.
However, wrong wrt Christianity not being a religion of peace, for … you likely already know why. I expect most people know why, anyway. It’s just that people have been proving to generally apply the bad or poor habit of lacking specificity.
If we adopt that as “the way”, then we could say the same with respect to the Iroquois who violently warred on the peaceful FNP, First Nations Peoples’ tribes of the province of Quebec, and all with the Iroquois siding with the British invaders and conquerors, to boot. It’d be a major overgeneralisation, we can all critically agree.
The Euro-Judeo-Christians are but a minority, even small minority of Christians in this world, but because of them, all of Christianity is treated with the overgeneralised labels.
They, the wicked ones, were NOT driven by any true Christian faith whatsoever; they were all as Jesus said, and which is ‘FALSE’ and disowned by him and Father in Heaven. He would tell them the same thing he said to hypocritical and hegemonic pharisees, that they’re “not sons (and daughters, we can add) of God, but of the father of lies, rape, murder”, to which we can integrally add plenty other crimes and injustices, we can critically and easily agree; surely.
That [is] the true Christianity.
All who take the Bible, especially the O.T. part, literally are NOT true Christians; they might be a little, but while also being false as far as the rest goes. It’s not always their fault; we know that many were too poor to achieve higher or sufficiently high levels of education; churches ordained and continue to ordain wholly UNFIT (and worse) priests and ministers; the minimally RCC provided Scripture only in Latin throughout hellishly LONG history, well into the 20th century; and …. Not all were so poor as persons that they were also intellectually and morally poor and therefore fooled, but many were unable to think critically enough for themselves and erred by following the instructions of hellish, demented, malicious, egotistical, narcissistic, power-mongering, pointy-headed-boss elitist, … ministers.
I don’t know about the denominations that formed through schisms, away from the RCC, but the latter definitely provided Biblical readings (spoken or aloud) and texts only in Latin for a very, horrifically LONG time, including through much of my own mother’s life, the first half of it; up to around the 1950s, I think it was. A lot of the lay members didn’t know Latin, at all, so they did not know what was read to them, and could not read the texts!
Peter Waldo, who started the Poor People(s) of Lyons lay ministry and community shortly enough before Francis of Assisi formed the Franciscan Order worked very much to get the RCC to provide a translated version of Scripture so that the poor of Lyons would be able to understand what the texts said; and the church finally came around to providing this to him. Very, very shortly, if not immediately thereafter, the church said ‘NO MORE’, and banned providing any further texts translated for the common people to be able to understand the texts. The church also included the launching of a persecutory hunt against Waldo, who had to flee.
He reflected true Christianity, while the church reflected … what? Antichrist is certainly one valid evaluation; and to be that is to be anti-Christian, NOT Christian, Judeo or otherwise.
WE ALL KNOW THESE THINGS; just that people regularly like to superficially address or speak of, or flame about Christianity as if there’s only one reality involved in the sphere of his particular topic. Jesus made it very clear, and much more intelligent, having specically stated and warned that Christianity would definitely be corrupted by [false] prophets, which necessarily or inherently includes false priests, ministers, as well as lay members, ALL who profess to be Christian while being FALSE; for prophets can be of any of these groupings. He firmly warned to BEWARE of these “religious” [charlatans], to never follow them.
It’s right there in Scripture; or, well, it used to be there anyway. I haven’t read it for … a while, so maybe this is another part of Scripture that’s been stricken out.
In any case, Jesus also made it clear that he did not agree with everything in the O.T.; but most people prefer to disregard that he did this, or simply aren’t sharp enough to realise that he did. It’s right there in Scripture; or, well, it used to be anyway. And one example likely still is there, and it’s extremely simple. It’s wherein he condemned living according to the O.T. law or norm of “an eye for an eye”, that is, revenge.
If he condemned one part of Judeo scripture, then we can rest assured that we can justly examine all that’s known of his teachings and ways in order to discern other parts of Judeo scripture he would also condemn. Doing that, we find one strong set of examples that he’d condemn are very much like what cmichaelg49’s post is about. It’s something Jesus would likely condemn much more strongly than “eye for an eye”, for that’s about revenge, so based on first having been aggressed or wronged. What cmichaelg49’s post is about, and is atrociously retained in instead of stricken from O.T. scripture, I believe in Deuteronomy and other texts, is not at all about revenge; it’s about hellbent and extremely criminal aggression, war(s) of aggression. Given the integrity found in Jesus’s teachings and way, he would surely condemn those crimes all the more strongly; while still condemning “eye for an eye”, of course.
Doom n Gloom’s post is much like what Jesus would strongly praise. He might say, “heh, dummy apostles and disciples, you who claim to be my followers, look at what DnG says and tell me, do you see the presence of God in that person?”. If any responded ‘no’, then he’d provide corrective teaching and firmly so; while praising those who’d instead say, ‘Yes, Jesus, Brother, we see what you are talking about’.
He might also say, “heh, apostles and disciples, those of you who claim to be my followers, read at www.hiddenfromhistory.org and tell me what you think of the residential crimes committed against the little children of the FNP of Canada by three of the main “churches” claiming to be established in or upon my name; do you think that I and the Father who sent me approve of such acts?”. If any replied ‘yes’, then he’d say, “you are not sons (and daughters) of God the Father, but of the father of lies, rape, murder, torture, …; get away from me, you charlatans!” The others, he’d praise.
Hence, given people have the sloppy habit of nearly constantly speaking and writing in wholly overgeneralised terms, a little specificity is therefore called for.
I won’t stand by and not take a stand in defence of the true faith, for to not do that is to not stand by the true leader, teacher, guide, counsel; and to abandon him is cowardly. And it does not matter whether he is whom Scripture says he is, which is Messiah, for which there are three known definitions, or not. After all, if he’s not that, then he’s still a person to be honourably remembered.
There is a LOT of similarity between him and the wise, kind, generous, … among all peoples of this world, and we should expect this. After all, he lived as a human and taught humans for human life, and Scripture illustrates that he recognised in some pagans qualities of his liking, while having occasionally needed to reprimand apostles and disciples, some of them anyway. We all know what he said about the Good Samaritan, and in comparison to two religious … idiots, f.e.
Look at the wisdom of the good-spirited peoples of his world and we can’t but see the resemblances between them all, and Jesus. It’s the way it should be for any religion or religious faith, and hopefully for atheists. There needs to be humane humanity in us; not evil, wickedenss, …
And evil and wickedness are all over the place, so opposition is needed.
There’s evil all over the place, and if Jesus is indeed whom Scripture says he is, and Satan is real, as Scripture describes him or it as being, like with the example of or in when Jesus went to the desert for forty days, then Satan, Evil has the agenda of trying to destroy the establishment, though too late for that, now, and development of true Christian faith. The first attempt was in trying to tempt Jesus, during that stretch of his in the desert; only the first attempt. It failed, but Satan doesn’t tire and … like the pope in I believe 1964 said, he believed to have sensed that Satan had infiltrated the church, due to having smelled the sulfuric odours of Satan’s smoke; something like that, anyway.
Quite accurate judgement it was, imo; only I think that that pope came to learn what had happened long before, while seeming new to him in 1964. He had been selected as pope very shortly before, if I recall correctly, and if that is true, then maybe he had not previously set foot in the Vatican; a “prime” location to find Satan up to his wickedness, though also not the sole church location.
If Satan is real, then he or it would surely want to infiltrate the churches established upon the name of Jesus; most of course. He or it [is] destroyer, and perverted as hell; he wants to destroy all that is good, all that God loves, and all who love God. Satan is a jealous shit; very.
Look through what’s available at and via www.hiddenfromhistory.org and if you don’t see EVIL infiltration of the three main “Christian” churches of Canada in this information or history, then you are more blind than a bat.
That website is “Hidden From History: The Canadian Holocaust. The untold story of the Genocide of Aboriginal Peoples” (in Ca).
And much of the information is from a former priest or minister who witnessed some if not much, enough, of these crimes, incredible crimes, and committed in the 20th century, until … very recently, enough; as well as possibly pre-20th century. I haven’t read a LOT there, but enough to know that the history is [horrific]. It’s about unbelievable torture, and unexplained, on the part of the churches, that is, disappearances of aboriginal children, whose families know the churches, the Canadian govt, and the RCMP are all guilty, and are demanding JUSTICE until it is obtained.
A couple of other resource sites are the following.
www.MohawkNationNews.com
“Canadians for Aboriginal Rights” discussion forum,
http://cfar.proboards104.com
Just quickly reread this post and noticed two or three places where it’s supposed to be ‘this’ but wrote ‘his’, so if ‘this’ looks like what should be meant, then use it.
Quote: “mcpete December 21st, 2007 8:43 pm
Hey Salvation- you must be a product of the chimps “no child left behind”. I see similar speech patterns to the chimp in your mindless rant.”
HEH, MCPETE, WHAT’S WITH BEING INSULTING, OFFENCIVE TOWARDS THE INNOCENT CHIMPS?
The rest, you’re right about; but you have unacceptable and really groundless disrespect for chimpanzees. Get off their backs; they’re also tired of imperialist, colonialist, … shits, or hell.
seraphicmom,
“doomn’gloom,for one thing,there is no such thing as an ‘american indian’.the correct title is ‘native american’….indian is a misnomer and they were an indigenous native peoples,long before they were ‘americans’….may the wind always be at the back of russell means and harlan geronimo……they are ‘true’ men..”
Today I prefer the term American Indian. The term Native American is no longer specific enough since anyone born in America can properly refer to themselves as Native American.
Also, Russell Means also prefers the name American Indian. We Indigenous Peoples use both to describe ourselves and accept both as proper.
When we think of the year 2012 and the prophecies of destruction and the beginning of a new plane of exist