Meanwhile, NONE of you cowards, Gore dumbass Vidal included, have stepped up to my simplest of challenges and admitted that if it were Hillary instead of your little troll cult "hero" shutting out a Gold Star mom challenger you'd all be squealing like stuck pigs over how fascist she was.

Admit it. And explain how it's a-ok for Kucinich to play the elitist imperial candidate.

Anne Faith....lolololol!

Splitting a gut on your admitting that Kucinich is pretty damned STUPID for those remarks on running with Ron Paul. Now go the extra step and analyze. He made that joke because he knows how EFFIN STUPID his cult following is.

Nihilistic December 23rd, 2007 11:05 pm
Zee,

Your holier-than-thou, self-righteous indignant superiority-complex is pretty impressive....

--
Hey, one would have to go pretty far to beat Denny and his lunatic cult who repeatedly use phrases like "ONLY Kucinich is principled" etc etc.
----

Left of Left December 24th, 2007 12:35 am
Zee,

Lots of words

too bad you didn't say anything

---

No, actually, it's too bad you cultists are too damned stupid and stubborn to admit that Dennis is running around with his child trophy bride and shutting out debate with the Gold Star mom challenging him to debate and missing votes on environmental issues and pandering to religious nuts by voting FOR that crap about how IMPORTANT Christians are...not to mention his flipflop on abortion and his RACE-BAITING in the early years of his pandering.

FACTS too much for you losers???

I am tired of these paranoid, ignorant, low level comments so typical of where this country has arrived as above. There is no point waving the flag it represents a lot that is bad in the world. Like the Roman empire for all the good it has done, it has been matched by the evil. Like Rome it will founder the great days of thought, ethics and fairness are over.

Mr. Gore Vidal, has so rightly said what is wrong with this country, and its media conglomerates! Wolf Blitzer one of the glaring examples of its distorted ideas and a person who has no right to shape public opinion. He shows ignorance as a virtue for all the world to see, a distorted cultural example of what is considered by too many in America, a concern for rectitude and fairness.

Mr. Kucinich one of the examples of what America could be, a great example of what the congress should be, is denied exposure because he shows the media for their facile, empty ideas that have little substance. He points up how they dumbs down the electorate! Mr Kucinich allows some fresh air into the working barn of Washington and brings a truth and fairness that media sold out long ago. The working media conglomerates are nothing more than the television moguls reperesented by the puppet people who do their bidding on air as required. They have sold their souls long ago!

Welcome to American politics and their values as represented by the useless thinking of the American media. Between Russet's baseball questions and Blitzer's right wing boss rhetorical echoes, we begin to understand some of the reasons why the American public is considered empty by Europeans standards.

Thank you Gore Vidal. Short as it is, this commentary, with its candor and brilliance, gives encouragement to anyone who cares about America's future in this dark hour.

I'm laughing, only because when they came for Ralph Nader, y'all Dims stood silently by.... now they came for Kucinich and a few of ya' Dims are bitchin' (rightly so) and it all seems like so very little, so very late... with all due respect to Mr. Vidal. Who's next? And how many fewer steps afore they come for you?

Spot on, Ticonderoga.

What do we have here, re the comments following Mr. Vidal's excellent article?:

1. We've got one guy who keeps saying the same thing, over and over: Kucinich should be excluded from a Presidential debate because he hasn't been doing much on-the-ground campaigning in his home state. The Presidential election is a national thing, and not an Iowa thing, and all candidates and their viewpoints should be heard. On-the-ground campaigning was a necessity back in Abe Lincoln's day, but now with TV and radio and the internet, it's not.

2. We've got a lot of people attacking Kucinich on character issues, just as Clinton was attacked many years ago. All human beings are fallible. All of them. At least I've never met anyone who was perfect, personally. And if every American, especially the poor and middle class, were to take a blind poll of the candidates based on their ideas alone, Kucinich would win hands down.

3. We've got a lot of hullabaloo about Kucinich and Paul running together. Should they? Of course not, Ron Paul, although he has always voted against the war, just as Kucinich has, is the polar opposite of Kucinich, as far as ideas go (except for the war). Has Dennis's team gone on record as saying Dennis would be willing to run with Ron Paul? Yes. Is that stupid of Dennis and his people? Yes. But no one's perfect, and it will never happen. Once again, no one's perfect, and that little bit of foolishness on Dennis's part is vastly outweighed by the rest of his platform and by his voting record.

4. Is Kucinich, regardless as to how you spell his name, likely to win the Democratic nomination? No, he's not, but that's only because people are conditioned to believe he can't win (or because they don't know he exists).

Bottom line: If we want Kucinich to be elected President, it's up to us to get the word out. The mainstream media isn't going to do it for us. Why should they? It's not in their best interests. But it is in ours.

And wasn't Vidal who said that there's only one party in America today, a party with two wings, the conservative wing, known as Democrats, and the reactionary wing, known as Republicans? What does he care what happens in the debates? It's all a charade anyway.

celebrity get a clue, I don't vote Democratic or Republican, I leave that for idiots. So no Hillary for me, no worries.

I've always said that Kucinich is a sham designed to keep the left in the Democratic Party. Clinton and her bosses at Blackwater have the lock on the nomination. If she wins the presidency, and I hope she doesn't, it'll be as bad as a White House with Giuliani or Huckabee. Eight more years of illegal war profiteering, destruction of the middle class and more humiliation of the poor, the way only a Clinton can envision.

Any of the youtube generation here not fighting in Iraq should just STFU. The difference between you and the College Republicans? NONE. Paul Hackett and Rosemary Palmer are the real deal and see through Koward Kucinch the pandering pol preening with his child bride and her Princess Di fetish.

He's missing important votes, blowing off serious debate, whining about correct assessments of his race-baiting, pandering character and has no public support outside the insane cult who turns a blind eye to his NUMEROUS flaws and refuses to admit that if Hillary were acting like this they'd be screeching till spittle covered their computer screens. Or in Vidal's case, ranting till he soiled his Depends.

"If anyone is running for a position in either the Republican or Democratic parties in the U.S., then they are vying for a position in the same evil party. Period!

After the much publicized frauds of the last two illegitimate elections, the turnout for the next U.S. presidential election is going to be the lowest in history. And that means only one thing. Revolution is in play."

If there is anything more criminally stupid on earth than a Naderite/Kucinichuffer I've yet to see it. At least the Rove/Bush rethugs know they're evil. Are you such a moron that you fail to see the disenfranchised voters were Democrats? As for your stupid revolution...I've been on the street since Nov. 2000, which I suspect you were not. And the biggest turnout I've seen? OVER A MILLION women for NOW. Democrats, not Naderites, not antiwar tools conflating Israel with our own problems. This is reality...deal with it. Or not. The real revolution will happen without the ilk of the cult-minded.

Celebrity, I expected no less...no, I mean, no more from the likes of you and your blind cult fury ability to....reason. lol!

And Anne Faith....note the cult name, "faith"...Cleveland Scene is quoting FACTS...same as SLATE, MSNBC and the other sources I noted. Kucinich DID use loathesome race-baiting tactics...which included literature with racist terms, then lied that he didn't "remember" that. It's quite apparent, since A. it happened and was noted in local papers at the time it happened, and B. it's happened repeatedly since then. Flipflopping on abortion in order to pander to his newfound "base," lying to 9/11 nuts in order to pander to them, and pandering to the Ron Paul nuts as well, joking that he'd choose the antichoice white supremacist as a running mate ...which, even tho a joke, proves he knows and despises his following as a cult, just as he knows it's the same mentality as the Ron Paul following is.

And you should be ashamed of yourself...dissing a Gold Star mom, and from watching a VIDEO, no less. Why don't you read up on it instead? You're obviously a KID --- all you social network kids never read. Look at the infant generation 9/11 nuts. All video all the time. No reading. If Kucinich is too effin' busy running for president to represent his constituents, let him resign. Your argument...and I note you OMIT the admission I required, which was if Hillary was doing this you'd be in a frickin' SNIT about how imperial and undemocratic she was...is how Dennis is too flipping IMPERIAL and presidential to bother with
facing a serious contender who is supported by OTHERS WITH REAL EXPERIENCE in Iraq and who is acknowledged by several DC and Ohio news sources as more legitimate a candidate for congress than Denny is for president.

Finally, learn to READ. If nothing else, lay off the youtube and learn. to. read.
You write some kneejerk meme that is a LIE: " Yet he manages to make it to Congress to vote on pending legislation..." Did you brainfart my link to another thinking-better-than-Common-Dreams-and-old-man-Vidal blog which noted that Denny and his new age Princess-wannabe bride were out galavanting and so he missed supporting the Endangered Species Recovery act?

And it's not just Rosemary Palmer. Kucinich the Koward has repeatedly refused to debate any local challenger. How is it THEY are ALL too inconsequential yet he shrieks to high heavens when the other presidential candidates
correctly term him to inconsequential to include? Go on, Miss-He's-Too-Good-for-this-world. Give it a better shot, because you are so far off only other blind cultists who have been staring at the sun too long can follow such BS...logic.

You cultists are pathetic. Admit you'd screech about Hillary if she'd only done half of this. Admit your man has always pandered like every other politician, and misses important votes while out preening. And all of you dissing Iowa and the young people who are blogging and caucusing and thinking, reading, and writing instead of bleating memes and watching youtube are the ones who should GFY.

Shame on all of you and also Vidal, as big a coward as Kucinich, for not answering the completely fact-based charges of disdain, racism, and pandering.

In reference to the spelling of 'Kuchinich', this is done primarily out of respect for the proper Ukranian pronunciation (his ancestors were Ukranian) in which the second sylaable is pronounced 'Chee' instead of the Americanized 'See'. Both spellings are acceptable and of minor importance. I'm sure Dennis is neither offened or uncomfortable with people pronouncing his name either way.

WTF? His name is spelled "K-U-C-I-N-I-C-H". Why not spell it correctly? Would you like it if someone started spelling your name "Smythe" if it were "Smith"? Jeesh.

Also I would like to point out the obvious to everyone: If Dennis were NOT a threat, the Register would have found no reason to block him. Vote for the one that scares them so much they won't let him speak! Vote for voice of the people. Vote for Kucinich! That's K-U-C-I-N-I-C-H.

Just one question - at what point in history was the United States ever a real democracy?

If any of you think that the U.S.A. has a future, then you are either delusional or in denial. Study history. All evil empires come to an unfortunate end because they do not reflect the will of the majority, some stumbling to that end more swiftly than others. The U.S. has proven to be the most evil nation of all History and, in these times of rapid advance and decline, the fall of the U.S. is going to be swift. If anyone is running for a position in either the Republican or Democratic parties in the U.S., then they are vying for a position in the same evil party. Period!

After the much publicized frauds of the last two illegitimate elections, the turnout for the next U.S. presidential election is going to be the lowest in history. And that means only one thing. Revolution is in play.

Zee: G.F.Y.

Let me weigh in here with my take on Dennis Kucinich. I have followed his career and like his motivation for politics. He is a human being. There are bound to be honest detractors. It's the dishonest ones you have to be wary of. I have been a labor union organizer, a professional musician and actor, a free lance writer and academic lecturer, and a advocate for public citizenry. In all of this work I have come to make my political choices based on what I observe as the human behavior I encounter. I have been in poverty and homelessness as well as a member of the working poor and so called middle class. I have traveled far and wide throughout these United States in many stages of its cultural history over the last 40 years. I have come to respect Congressperson Kucinich as a principled and cogent advocate for the good of many. I don't, however, think of him as left wing. He as about as mainstream as you get, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe there are a handpicked by the media few who belive that he is a radical left wing liberal, etc. but they and their followers have been duped into thinking that universal coverage single payer health care administration for every citizen is a left wing radical idea. It is not. It is an idea that has been welcomed by a tremendous majority of the people of this and most other nations. Most other nations have some great measure of such a policy. We don't because we continue to invest in our national slavery to corporate generals who trick us into thinking that the trickle down works, that "daddy (sometimes referred to as Big Brother) knows best" and that it is their private corporate right to take taxpayer money and spend it on themselves while telling us that anyone who directs money towards the social well being of the people at large is a tax and spend liberal. These tired worn out slogans mean nothing. It is actually the job of all elected officials to collect and allocate tax moneys from their various constituent jurisdictions towards whatever (or whoever) they feel behooved to represent. Some spend it on defense contracts to private corporations who represent thier power by profit; others spend it on conserving the environment, developing educational projects, health care, urban infrastructure. It's all tax and spend. The Republicans tax and spend just as much as Democrats. So, all that having been said. I don't see why Dennis Kucinich should run an independent presidential campaign. Someday, when this nation actually builds an alternative party from the ground up (grass roots anybody?) and only runs someone for office when and where there is a base founded for such a run (so ease up a little Ralph, take note Greens) then perhaps a viable independent or actual third party candidate will emerge. Until then, we workers and wannabe workers (that be we who are unemployed) better get busy and organize. And after Bush, almost anybody might be better. So be careful. Vote your genuine working class interest while you can. If we fall short, it won't be Kucinich's or anybody else's fault. Thanks for your time.

One more point: I googled Rosemary Palmer and Kucinich and came across a video of Palmer on YouTube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2VAWDQHsBc, challenging Kucinich to a debate. Having seen the video, I can see why Dennis has better things to do than debate this woman, at least at this stage. He IS running for President, after all, and yes, that means it will take him out of Ohio. Yet he manages to make it to Congress to vote on pending legislation, unlike some of the other candidates for President.

It seems he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't: he's criticized for not spending enough time campaigning in Iowa, for example, and he's criticized for not spending enough time at home in Cleveland. I suppose next he'll be criticized for taking time to attend his youngest brother's funeral today. I'd say we could clone him, so that he could be everywhere for everyone, but his detractors would probably keel over and croak at the thought of it.

Despite the naysayers, he must be doing something right, as he's been reelected several times. Or are they all "brainwashed" like me?

Since "Zee" derisively quoted me as saying Dennis was "too good" to be president, I'd like to respond. I read the Cleveland Scene article Zee cited as well as all the other articles/blog pieces about Kucinich on the Cleveland Scene, and it's obvious that the Scene's editors and "reporters" hate him with a passion. Doesn't mean they're right.

I noted that some Clevelanders took exception to the hit piece, including one Edwards supporter who described the piece as "filled with factual errors, half-truths, and blatant cheap shots" and further stated, "Kucinich has never wavered in his support for policies that benefit working people. He has opposed all efforts to dismantle our industrial base for short-term profit."

Because Kucinich stood up to a wealthy man who happened to be African-American, does that make him a "race baiter"? Because he represented the people of his community, who are "ethnic whites," does that make him a "race-baiter"? Can we make any allowances for the fact that he was only 31 years old when he was mayor of Cleveland, and perhaps he's learned some things along the way in the past 30 years?

We all have to gather the facts, good and bad, and make our own judgment. All I know is that I agree with Dennis' platform, and he is the only one saying the things that need to be said. His willingness to speak truth to power is something that is badly needed in this campaign.

Well, we have certainly come a long way. What started out as a respectable questioning of the Iowa/National debate process has become a collaborative, as well as elaborative rant on the character of the candidate left out of that debate. Part of the problem in choosing a presiding officer to run/manage a federal democratic republic such as ours is the cult of personality so earnestly worshipped by the population and easily endorsed by the corporate sovereign powers who pretty much assure the continuation of the previous. Although personality and character are very important to the holder of any public office, one should notice that of the small percentage of citizens who actually vote, we are more than adequately represented by the fools who reflect us. Regardless of Kucinich's reasons or lack thereof for not debating Rosemary Palmer, he is a declared candidate for national office who has met the qualifications of the Federal Election Commission and should be involved in any nationally covered debates. Whether you like him or not. As for all the back and forth tirade based on the weaknesses of the candidates, enjoy yourselves. We seem to require less of a job description for our elected offices than we do for part time Wal-Mart employees. What a farce. Perhaps there are no real issues to be discussed and perhaps most feel that business as usual is inevitable no matter what. Perhaps. I do know that what you see is what blinds you and that, even when multi-tasking, that which you are busy doing keeps you, at that time, from doing anything else. We are indeed a busy nation, doing just about nothing about our national situation.

"Goodner Why don't you just get the fuck off the site and go to redstates.com where you obviously belong!!!"

My goodness. Looks like celebrity won't be staying honest by taking my experiment and pretending it were Hillary blowing off a Gold Star mom primary challenger wishing to debate so their constituents could make an informed decision. Look how s/he responds to Goodner, who is actually involved in the Iowa caucuses! My guess is all the Kult members respond like this when their idolized "hero" is challenged, no matter how valid the point. Goodner's point that Kucinich did not make any effort to campaign in Iowa was well-taken. As is mine, that Kucinich is a hypocrite of the first water to whine about debates and call the other presidential candidates "imperial" when in complete imperial fashion he habitually refuses to debate challengers. And anyone who can admit they'd be throwing a fit if Hillary did this to homestate challengers is free to torture logic in order to explain how it's "different" when the elite Kucinich blows off Rosemary Palmer's long-time request for debate.

"Who would benefit from Paul's desire to abolish all environmental, workplace and food regulations, and abolish the public sphere BUT the rich and powerful?"

Well, PJD, maybe Paul and Kucinich are closer than many suspect. After all, before he flipflopped to pander for the votes he'd need to make his fringe run for president, Kucinich voted as antichoice as Paul, and only recently Kucinich failed to support the endangered species recovery act:

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/category/election-2008/kucinich/12/14/2007

Kucinich Fails To Support The Endangered Species Recovery Act

Here's a swift kick in the pants to Dennis Kucinich....Kucinich is running for President on the basis of his supposedly progressive record in Congress.

This afternoon, I discovered one important piece of progressive congressional legislation that Dennis Kucinich has not supported: The Endangered Species Recovery Act of 2007. The Endangered Species Recovery Act would provide strong incentives to private landowners to protect and enhance habitat for endangered species on their property.

Republican congressmen and presidential candidates Duncan Hunter, Ron Paul and Tom Tancredo have not co-sponsored the legislation. That's expected, though. As Republicans, they support the right of Americans to trash the earth at whim.

Why hasn't Dennis Kucinich co-sponsored the legislation? Ninety-five other members of the House of Representatives have done so, and none of them are running for President. If they can co-sponsor the bill, why can't Dennis Kucinich? Is he just too busy promoting himself through his campaign for President to attend to the business of his job in Congress?

(Sources: Library of Congress, National Audubon Society)

PJD:"Every time I read someone post this, I realize how politically clueless so many USAns are."

You got it, Brother. Anyone who supports Paul and links him as same/same Kucinich has NOT done their homework and is going only on soundbites.

=====

LMAO! Does that mean Elizabeth Kucinich is clueless for saying her husband would "absolutely" consider Paul as a running mate and gushing how Ron Paul is a "great truth-teller" like her hubby? Yeah, there are quite a few who think "homework" is chiming in with the echo chamber.

Gore Vidal, you can join the game, too. Explain how you, Kucinich and the echo chamber here are not all hypocrites. Include the exercise of pretending it were Hillary blowing off a Gold Star mom serious primary contender before you start making excuses for whining Denny.

And now that you've read some real history on your candidate who is "too good" to breathe the air of every other politician (you DID read up on him, didn't you? The link is from the locals who know him best. Or are you too hard-core a Kult member to do the research on the real man?) here is why you're all hypocrites: despite his nonstop whining Kucinich always, but always, marginalizes every candidate that runs against him for his congressional seat. He refuses to debate a single one. Talk about imperial, huh? Talk about undemocratic and talk about dismissive of his constituents. His current primary challenger, Rosemary Palmer, is a Gold Star mom, a former supporter of Dennis until she saw through his posturing. Guess who endorses her? Paul Hackett, the Iraq war vet who made a temporary run for Senate in Ohio. These are antiwar patriots who have experienced the war front and center. As opposed to armchair antiwar zealots who have made a cult out of pretending a pandering politician is some kind of paragon of untouchable principle. This should give pause to anyone with any brain cells free from the nonstop shilling of cult echo chambers.

Before the kneejerk responses start, here's the test: if any one of you can admit that if it were HILLARY giving the cold shoulder to a Gold Star mom who was running against her in a primary race and can admit that if Hillary refused to debate such a challenger that you would be shrieking till spittle covered your computer screen about how imperial and undemocratic she was and can then explain how different it is that your oh-so-principled "too good" for America hero Kucinich to blow her off, then I will listen to how it's so different and a-ok for Dennis to blow off debate with his challengers all the while whining and crybabying about not getting into presidential debates he doesn't have a ghost of a chance of winning. Rosemary Palmer's chances of winning her primary challenge are much greater. So why is it ok for Kucinich to play the imperial untouchable with her? (Don't forget...you have to admit you'd clobber Hillary if it were her blowing off such a challenger.)

"Progressives have been telling him to resign the Democratic Party for a long time but no, he chooses to remain part of this utterly corrupt criminal enterprise. Now he must pay. Had he declared himself a Third Part candidate a year ago, he would've been able to expose Democrats for what they are..."

Listen to the echo chamber brain trusts. Pathetic. Know how many turd parties there are? A shitload. Most of them far from progressive and all of them even more marginal than Kucinich already is. I would call those in the echo chamber here hypocrites, except I think for the most part the Kucinich Kult is simply uninformed, albeit on purpose. Shutting everything else out except for repeating the same romantic crap over and over...how Dennis is "too good" for this world. Yeah...he should become a breatharian, like the crowd his wife hangs out with. Fraud-gurus also "too good" for this earth. Meanwhile, inform yourselves by reading how Dennis remade himself from a race-baiting pandering pol to this false image of the "only" progressive.

http://movies.clevescene.com/2007-12-05/news/the-king-of-spin/1

Zee,

Your holier-than-thou, self-righteous indignant superiority-complex is pretty impressive. No doubt you're quite pleased with yourself.

celebrity------Thanks for the interesting self-test. I had Dennis as my high score, followed by Gravel, Obama, Clinton, and Edwards. Hunter and Romney tied for last with me. For a simple test it's pretty good, but I think it gives too high a value to issues selected as "key". It would probably test more accurately for conservatives than for liberals, because conservatives tend to fully agree or disagree, without many shades of opinion, like liberals.

Zee,

Lots of words

too bad you didn't say anything

Gore Vidal represents common sense in these times. However, common sense does not prevail in these so called United States. Not now, perhaps not ever. The so called Founders were not folks we should so readily emulate, by the way. But the Constitution of the U.S. is a rather decent contribution, relatively speaking. Now what does this have to do with the debate debate? Well, we're all fishing, it seems, in the mainstream, looking for a radical catch and we ain't even using good bait. So dat be whud dah de-bait be about, eh? Seriously, Rep. Kucinich is, by my estimation, one of only three or four main stream candidates for the Democratic Party nomination, with John Edwards, Mike Gravel and perhaps Barrack Obama being the others. The rest seem to be a bit right of center to me. As far as who participates in the debates, perhaps it is time for public debate forums. So far, what has been presented to the public has been by the private sector. In this great(?) nation, why is there no such thing as public access, public television, public radio? Oh, there is? Well, then, excuse me. But how about using it, then. By the way, I admire DK very much. He would make a fine President. But why didn't he speak up when Gravel was left out of the equation despite meeting all the qualifications that the corporate entitties think are pertinent? As for the fishing expedition, is a united citizenry good enough bait? Or maybe we get the catch of the day based on our failures as citizens. H'mm. At any rate, anyone is "electable". After all, look who's in power.

tetti_tatti: RIGHT ON! You vote Hillary, Baby! Whoo-hoo!!!!

This is not the only Democratic debate that was manipulated by its so-called sponsors. ABC's moderator refused to call on Dennis K. for 28 minutes, almost half the debate, and gave all the media-appointed "front runners" more time to answer questions than the more qualified (in my opinion) candidates like Kucinich, Richardson, Biden and -- perhaps best candidate of all -- Dodd. The CNN guy made a college student trivialize her foreign-policy question until it became about jewelry.

Until the last couple of elections, the League of Women Voters ran fair, well-organized, informative debates. When the two major parties said the League would have to make certain changes that the League considered unwise, the League quit handling debates rather than make them.

Dear League, please come back.

"You are disgusting."

The test subjects on both sides of the political aisle reached totally biased conclusions by ignoring information that could not rationally be discounted, Westen and his colleagues say.

Then, with their minds made up, brain activity ceased in the areas that deal with negative emotions such as disgust. But activity spiked in the circuits involved in reward, a response similar to what addicts experience when they get a fix, Westen explained.

The study points to a total lack of reason in political decision-making.

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060124_political_decisions.html

If you represent real change and you've got the guts to never quit, then the corporatocracy will quit you. They're doing it to Kucininch and Gravel. It's amazing how effective the consent manufacturers have become. They've reduced the Presidential race to the quest by NFL teams to win the Super Bowl: the New England Patriots will probably win, the Indianapolis Colts have a legitimate shot, the Cowboys or Jaguars could pull a miracle upset, but no one going to talk about the chances of the Arizona Cardinals. We've become such a winner-take-all culture that every competition becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The elites can squeeze Kucininch out, and the people accept it as it being the natural order of things. Now, if he looked like Tom Cruise, he'd get MSM coverage, although he still wouldn't win. They'd simply want to know what kind of underwear he preferred. I'm still voting for him though. To hell with the media culture.

I'm delighted, it serves Kucinich right. Progressives have been telling him to resign the Democratic Party for a long time but no, he chooses to remain part of this utterly corrupt criminal enterprise. Now he must pay.

Had he declared himself a Third Part candidate a year ago, he would've been able to expose Democrats for what they are: Bush accomplices, war profiteers and deceivers.

I think it's true Dennis should run as an independent if he doesn't make the primary.

too bad russ feingold didn't run.

Maybe Kucinich has some reasons for not spending time in Iowa.

Do we have real information that he didn't go to that state or are we relying on what someone ranting on CD said?

I live Jersey and I would vote for Kucinich on the basis that I agreed with his ideas, voting record in congress, etc, without having had the guy over for dinner.

truthteller is right about Gannett, The Register is a McPaper.

The Democratic party ITSELF is marginalizing Kucinich -- making it crystal clear that the whole purpose of the Democratic party is to advance the next-best possible corporate candidate (as compared to the best possible, Obama.)

I think this is a really good debate to be having and thank you to everyone who is posting comments and throwing ideas around.

a couple of thoughts:

1) what's with the personal attacks? I knew the rightwing blogosphere was full of character assassins and personal attacks, but i was hoping the left was bigger than that. lets stick to the issues and have a real debate. namecalling doesn't get any of us anywhere.

2) i am a fan of dennis kucinich and admire his stance on the issues very much. however i still feel that its his own fault for being excluded from the debate. all he had to do was show up in iowa once in awhile and actually campaign like everyone else does, and he would have been in the debates. i really don't think its too much to ask of a candidate to actually campaign.

3) the independent polling and progressive democrat polling numbers suggest kucinich has a larger following than the msm is letting on. that's why i don't understand why kucinich stays a democrat. he should run as a green or as an independent, or start his own party or something. to me, kucinich's only real weakness is that he's beholden and loyal to the Democratic Party. as i posted earlier, if hillary won the primary, kucinich would tell all of his supporters to back her and the Dems.

4) i still think a Kucinich/Paul team running Green/Libertarian could work. Yes they have alot of different views and ideologies but that way neither one could go to far out there. And Congress would always be around to keep Paul from going off the deep-end with some of his proposals. But there truly is a growing sense of the need for an alternative to the two-party system, and i think the rabid support kucinich and especially paul are getting indicates just how powerful that sentiment is. if they went independent they could really tap into it and maybe create some new, worthwhile institutions that could help the country out.

5) don't let the recreate68 thing fool you too much. the anarchists planning for the dnc/rnc protests have my utmost respect and admiration. why vote for kucinich when you can save the world yourself? that's what direct action is about. don't pressure congress to end the war, blockade an arms shipment. don't lobby for homeless shelters, build your own community of hospitality. or better yet, engage in electoralism and direct action and get the best of both worlds.

6) we are restricted by the confines of the two-party system, and so someone is going to end up the next president, and that person will have alot of power over the lives of everyone in the world. how can the peace community mobilize to best effect that inevitable outcome? i personally would argue that we do want to advance an alternative to the obama/clinton/edwards narrative. but that means we still do have to take electability into consideration. that's why i really feel that kucinich, biden, and dodd supporters should all fold into bill richardson's camp, and we should put all our energy into getting richardson as far as he can go. richardson isn't perfect, but the truth is, he has alot of experience, and he also wants an immediate withdrawal of all the troops. his plan for global warming is most aggressive one out there too.

just some thoughts, i respect everyones opinions.

If AIPAC is involved, then no wonder the Des Moines Register supports Clinton--the Jewish Lobby's stooge.

Nader2000:

Your 4:57 am personal bile directed at COMarc is not only inappropriate and juvenile, but also it contains an erroneous underlying assumption.

You imply that the anti-war protestors in Chicago in 1968 caused Nixon's election. That is simply false.

You owe COMarc an apology, and I strongly recommend that you improve both the maturity and thoughtfulness of your comments.

David Goodner:
Your individual assertion is not the final word on "importance," "seriousness," or any other of those fine qualities that you've determined are the difference between exposure and suppression.

The audience for the Democratic primary debate (sic) is not merely you and your neighbors. It is the nation. Therefore, please cease assisting the right wing in its establishing the limits of what people may see and hear.

Simple fairness demands that the national candidates - all of them - appear in this "debate."

Using your line of reasoning, I could declare your flimsy logic "not serious" and ask that Commondreams prevent your comments. But I don't do that, do I? Think about it.

DENNIS THE MENACE gets axed!
The Little Man who stands tall on ideals and substance is too dangerous to listen to.
The Man who voted against the crap War is left out in Iowa, the home of the fixed vote.
He is the only real Candidate on the Democratic Side.
He is a bright light in a wilderness of darkness and a breath of fresh air in a polluted, broken, political process.
Talking heads fix the game.
Cor'Pirate' shills one and all.
Americo
Home of ignorant and insane.
Where Media Prostitutes run the SHOW!
And
Parrots mimic them.
SPEWING!
More Fascist
BU__! SH__!
Sorry Gore, they haven't learned how to screw out the light bulb yet!

Hey, COMarc

You want to recreate the 1968 Democratic Convention violence?

The blood in the streets, and the bloodier consequences?

So, do you happen to remember who won the 1968 election?

And what that meant for the people of Vietnam?

Cambodia, Laos, and Chile? And America?

Hey, COMarc

Your words are a wonder to behold.

You have no conscience, no decency, no honor, Sir.

You are a corrupt, cynical, hateful old failure.

You represent the evil that is always with us.

Nihilism, misanthropy, senseless rage and violence.

You are disgusting.

THE NIGHT BEFORE THE CONVENTION
by RECREATE 68 (www.recreate68.org)

'Twas the night before the Convention, when all through the land
a revolution was stirring, the people were making a stand;

The spy cameras were hung by the police with care,
In the hopes of snaring a protestor and claiming it's fair;

The homeless were nestled all snug in new beds,
to hide them away from democrat heads;

When out on the street there arose such a clatter,
The police sprang from the station to see what was the matter.

Away to the Pepsi Center they flew like a flash,
with batons swinging looking for heads to smash.

The smell of tear gas permeated the night
all knew that the oppressors were in for a fight,

When, what to America's wondering eyes should appear,
But Recreate 68, showing no fear,

More rapid than eagles the protestors they came,
And comrades whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, Troops Out Now! now, SDS! now, R-68!
On, Unconventional Action! on Ruckus! Don't be late!

To the top of the Capitol! Tear down the security wall!
the people's power in action, oh what a ball!"

And then, in a twinkling, the end of four long nights
The Convention was over, but not the community's plights.

Down the road people of all colors came from the community
we knew at that moment we created some unity,

with ideas from the festival of democracy swirling around in their head,
we knew that corporate controlled capitalism would soon be dead;

with the creation of a movement that included the poor,
we knew that there was a chance of ending this war.

With the National Lawyers Guild and the ACLU keeping us Free
Thank God it was pro-bono we couldn't afford their fee!

We pulled back the curtain and exposed the hypocrisy
neither the Democrats or Republicans supported democracy;

The words in this poem can all become true
with hard work and organizing from people like you!

We can "Do It In Denver" if we plan right,
"Happy Holidays to all, and to all a good-night."

Some of you posters got a little carried away blasting David Goodner as some of what he said made a little sense. I have been a supporter of DK also but am seriously doubting he has a snowballs chance in hell of getting the nomination. Dennis has the mind we need but he lacks the stature and charisma to take him to the top. If his wife were running, chances are she would have been included in the Iowa debate, as that is just how stupid our method of electing leaders is. I am not so sure that Richardson should be written off, as even though his views may not suit some as well as Dennis K`s do, he could be electable. If Huckleberry can get nominated, Richardson would look like a real winner beside him. As for Ron Paul, his ideas are out in left field along with the rest of the Repugs, except for his stance on war.

I've read most of what you have written Mr. Vidal, and to date I can't find a single flaw in your unique interpretations of history. You also know better than anyone how sometimes a straight shooting, honest and brave visionary can suddenly come out of left field and sweep the nation off its feet. Unfortunately corporate America is also aware of this and right now Kucinch is the greatest threat to the criminal status quo. A surprise victory for Kucinich would actually mean the return of democracy and empowerment to the people while dismantling all that is rotten with our corporate driven government. But despite a well co-ordinated and very well funded campaign to marginalize (e.g. "Kucinich has no chance of winning!") or ignore him (e.g. absent from debates, and other windows of the MSM) he's gaining steam. I wouldn't count him out till the finish line has been crossed.

In reference to the spelling of 'Kuchinich', this is done primarily out of respect for the proper Ukranian pronunciation (his ancestors were Ukranian) in which the second sylaable is pronounced 'Chee' instead of the Americanized 'See'. Both spellings are acceptable and of minor importance. I'm sure Dennis is neither offened or uncomfortable with people pronouncing his name either way.

Dennis Kucinich is like a breath of fresh air in a very stale room. I am disgusted with CNN and I hope people will let them know how they feel about the shabby treatment Congressman Kucinich has received.

We have no choice now but to protest.

I hope all who cherish Justice and Sharing will seek an effective method to make known their feelings.

Just saw the email from Independent Primary.com and Dennis won that, too.

Final Democratic Party Voting

Kucinich 61,477 76.7%
Edwards 7,614 9.5%
Obama 3,847 4.8%
Clinton 2,084 2.6%
Gravel 1,844 2.3%
Richardson 1,522 1.9%
Biden 1,323 1.7%
Dodd 442 0.5%
TOTAL 80,153 100%

Well, interesting article above! Thanks for posting. I happened to have been at the CNN debate in Las Vegas, and afterwards, Elizabeth Kucinich took me by the hand and brought me up on the stage with her to see Dennis (I won a little raffle off the webpage and got to sit next to Elizabeth at the debate...) I was shocked when Wolff Blitzer went up to Elizabeth and started gushing about Dennis! "Your husband is such a nice, nice man." Gag me.

I would like to know how Goodner guages how many times Kucinich has been to Iowa, and how he knows how many times he has been there compared to others. Media coverage, perhaps??? Well, guess what...

I thought Kucinich ran away with the entire Heartland debate (not really a debate, but whatever you call it...) He clearly convinced the activists there who see right through the racist framing of the immigration "issue" and the need for single-payer, not-for-profit health care. You could see all the African Americans really wanting to root for Obama, and getting all conflicted when he wouldn't get behind them on their issues. Hillary completely bombed. She has virtually no progressive grass-roots support at all. Honestly, the only person I know who supports Hillary is my Republican step-dad. Here in Phoenix, on an Air America call-in straw poll, Kucinich came in so much higher than all the rest. In Vegas, spoke to an Air America radio host and he said most of his listeners are supporting Dennis, too (won his straw poll by a landslide). These are not exactly the states you think of as being radical liberal states. Besides, there is nothing radically liberal about Dennis. In any other Democratic country, his positions are considered absolutely, ho-hum moderate.

For those of you who want to see the current results (Ongoing if you haven't done it yet)of candidates ranked based on ISSUES ONLY--not money or "appeal"--visit here and spread it around please: http://www.dehp.net/candidate/stats.php

The problem is that Ron Paul is a conservative of the 18th century or so, and would have been a good defender for the merchant class against royalty's meddling. Today's reality, though, presents a merchant-royalty hybrid. Ron Paul needs to update his script by a couple centuries.

I'd like to see a Kucinich vs. Ron Paul Debate on GooTube -- these are the only serious candidates as far as I'm concerned and it would be worthwhile for the American public to have access to the issues as seen and discussed by one TRUE liberal and one TRUE conservative.

Ron Paul is pro-life and is more worried about government meddling in industry than the clear and OBVIOUS corporate takeover of government.

No, there's no hope until a candidate admits the truth: that government and the corporation have become intertwined. They say you can't solve a problem until you admit it exists.

redjeff: Follow this link and you will find what you are looking for: http://www.dehp.net/candidate/

PJD:"Every time I read someone post this, I realize how politically clueless so many USAns are."

You got it, Brother. Anyone who supports Paul and links him as same/same Kucinich has NOT done their homework and is going only on soundbites.

And to think that all these people could be behind a TRUE Progressive like D.K. when numbers are so important at this stage.

this is a post off democrats.com:

Clinton Campaign Stumbles Big in New Jersey

http://www.bluejersey.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6372

Last night was the unofficial New Jersey Presidential Caucus, sponsored by Blue Jersey, NJ for Democracy, and a wide range of other progressive and Democratic organizations.

The campaigns rolled out their big guns trying to convince caucusers to support their preferred candidates. Notably, Senate President Dick Codey spoke for John Edwards, Assembly Majority Leader Bonnie Watson Coleman spoke for Hillary Clinton, and Congressman Steve Rothman spoke for Barack Obama.

After each of the campaigns had a chance to present the caucus officially began. And that's when the surprises started.

There were three rounds of caucusing with viability thresholds. Any candidate who didn't have support of at least 15% of the caucusers was considered unviable in the first round and was eliminated; the second round threshold was 20% of caucusers. In the third and final round, the top vote-getter of the remaining candidates was the winner (It turned out to be Edwards 43%, Obama 38%, Kucinich 19%).

I, along with most people in the room, was stunned to see Hillary Clinton's campaign, after a robust effort, narrowly failed to meet the 15% viability threshold and was eliminated in the first round.

The Clinton organizers aggressively courted supporters of other unviable candidates (Biden and Richardson, mostly) to try and reorganize and make it through the second round of caucusing to the final round. Once again, after intense outreach, the Clinton camp missed the 20% viability threshold.

New Jersey has been called Clinton country by all manner of pundits, noting that she's locked up much of the Democratic establishment's support as well as her leads in the polls here. So, a lot of people came into the night expecting a Clinton win.

Now, this was an unofficial caucus. Hillary Clinton supporters have tried to downplay the results of last night's caucus, calling it irrelevant and meaningless-- no way indicative of real grassroots sentiment in the Garden State. But such an analysis doesn't really hold water, considering how the Clinton camp approached the caucus.
The Clinton team sent paid staffers to organize at the caucus. They brought out Assembly Majority Leader Bonnie Watson Coleman, a strong Clinton supporter and a well-known voice amongst the party faithful, who delivered a powerful and rousing, red-meat speech-- a clearly impassioned attempt to persuade caucusers to support Hillary. In each round of caucusing, the Clinton campaign aggressively (and somewhat successfully) targeted and courted female and GLBT voters, while trying their damndest to peel off supporters from other candidates.

Clinton's loss at the caucus suggests: 1) that her support in New Jersey is more institutional than activist, 2) that her support in New Jersey is softer than some of the other candidates, 3) that her ground game in New Jersey is inferior to that of other candidates. The momentum is shifting, even in Clinton-friendly New Jersey, and it doesn't appear to be in her favor.

Bradley Beach Councilwoman Julie Schreck stood for Kucinich, who had a surprisingly strong showing. She touted him as the most anti-war candidate, and the only one willing to undertake real reforms.

We definitely need to bag the freakin electoral college.

I don't get why Iowa and New Hampshire get to be first, and establish the momentum for the eventual nominees. California is 10% of the population, but their impact on the primary season is negligible.

What we need to do is chuck this whole state-by-state nonsense and hold a national primary with instant runoff voting. Why do we make candidates waste their time with an endless stream of bus tours, door-to-door campaigning, glad-handing, and baby-kissing? What happens is that we pick candidates based on their personal charm (Bush, Clinton) rather than their knowledge, experience, or courage.

If you could do a double-blind test of the candidates, based only on their stated positions on the major issues, I bet Dennis Kucinich would win. Based on looks, charm, and money, however, he is where he is.

Americans need to grow up and get past high school; we are not electing the Prom King and Queen--we are electing the leader of our nation, who represents us to the world. If we are a democracy, we need to act like we know what we are doing.

The media are running and ruining the presidential campaign by spotlighting only those candidates who appeal to their monetary base. Speak up by tuning out to media networks who take you for stooges.

Gore Vidal is the man. But I'm so disgusted with the charade that I've yet to watch any of the debates. I don't believe we've got a functioning democracy, and debates are arranged as a format to transact only at superficial layers anyway.

The local Air America affiliate in Minneapolis has basically shut out the Greens. "Progressive" radio shuts out the Greens, and the debates shut out Kucinich. The media-righting of the landscape is in full-swing.

workreno----I know it is hard to come up against arrogance of this sort but just consider the source. I am 61 and have a son just a year older and know how "little" he knows, even though, he, my son, at least knows better than to dis-respect Gore Vidal, or show such complete ignorance of DK. I grew up in Iowa---spent 21 years there, and when I moved away I never looked back. Always said, Iowa is a good place to be from-----FAR from. Young Gores does nothing to change my mind. What a self-absorbed, superficial child!

"Kucinich and Paul in 2008!"

Every time I read someone post this, I realize how politically clueless so many USAns are.

Kucinich and Paul represent opposite poles of political-economic discourse!

And I guess Eugene Debs and Ayn Rand would have made good running mates too. (google them if you don't know who they were)

Who would benefit from Paul's desire to abolish all environmental, workplace and food regulations, and abolish the public sphere BUT the rich and powerful?

gavingourley

why are you bored with him, he don't look like he's on TV enough for you?

I never thought I'd see the day that some 26 year old shit would try with such vigor to belittle ANY statement by Gore Vidal.

Hey Goosner Gores only been watching this shit for about a hundred year longer than you.

So why don't you just shut the *#@% up?

juanito1948, if George Bush can run this country (even though he's running it into the ground) then I'd have to say that Dennis Kucinich can certainly run this country. I believe that George Bush is more of a puppet than president, and it's the people around him who are really running the country; especially Dick Cheney. But I would imagine that Kucinich has the intelligence to choose a cabinet and have advisors that would be capable and certainly more honest than those in the Bush administration. In fact, it would be VERY difficult to do a worse job than George Bush has done to this nation and its constitution.

The exclusion of Dennis from the debate broke my heart, and so did the death of his brother. I'm grieving, for him, for us, for this country. We are in a heap of trouble.

The thing that we feared, the thing that made us want to flee after the 2000 bloodless coup that placed Bush/Cheney in the Whitehouse -- has now happened. We are living in a plutocracy, and great men like Dennis cannot be allowed to be heard, for he is too dangerous to the wealthy interests.

I am demoralized. I will support Dennis all the way, because he is that rare man of courage, integrity, and wisdom who truly is "too good" to be President. But I believe it's too late, and we are fighting a battle we can't win. Am I wrong? Is there anything we can do?

Gore Vidal for Congress!!

The Corporate media is hopeless, the current system is hopeless.

It is up to We the People to fight for our country and take back OUR CONGRESS by RUNNING FOR CONGRESS!!

Just watch this video of Katherine Harris and you will know YOU ARE qualified to run!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_b5JW2CII#GU5U2spHI_4

www.peacecandidates.com

Gore Vidal: I agree with you, on points, but please, take the longer or more synoptic view. Of course, Kucinich's points are swept beneath the rug by the MSM. But I've got to ask you one question: with the world environmenal crisis bearing down upon the next administration, who or which candidate do you think has the bearing, the quality of character to command and lead during the acute crises, dislocations and adjustments which lay in our future???
I feel that you are the country's one remaining (living) giant. You've known and observed so many key personalities and who knows more of our history than you? However, if you should think that Dennis has the capacity to lead this country, you are hugely mistaken. I think you ought to have a long lunch with John Edwards at the earliest opportunity.

Hey goodner, who the hell would want to come to Iowa anyway. Down with these stupid caucuses, boo to richardson, and I'm afraid if I "checked your shit out, man", my brain would turn to mush. Your shit aint got nothin on Mr.Vidal. Your not even a pimple on his ass. Your state is more backwards than my state. Dennis is the right man for the job. I'm with you Mr. Kucinich in your time of sorrow. Thanks to everyone. Happy Winter Solstace.

Kucinich and Paul in 2008!

My dream ticket. Combine social and fiscal responsibility to save America from the wealthy elite.

Unfortunately this will not happen. It has already been deiced that Hillary will be prez and Oboma VP. America will continue its decline.

gavingourley: "I'm so bored with Kucinich...no one's interested". No, You're not interested (I assume you can afford health insurance? Good luck with it if you ever get really sick). Check out www.independentprimary.com Kucinich just won the poll of independents with 75% of the vote.

Gore Vidal, you are the man! Cowards like Wolf Blitzer and Carol Hunter can't hold a candle to you. And to the Judy Miller Media Establishment: Don't think your exclusion of Dennis Kucinich from the debates went unnoticed.

"It is so typical for CNN, a lousy network...". They boast of themselves as "...the most trusted name in news...", so you know absolutely how tight they are with their corporate government masters because the minimalist crap they broadcast ensures hardly any intelligent people watch CNN unless there is a disaster, in which case it is mostly for the pictures and video, or if, before leaving for work, they want to see some of the prettiest girls on television telling them the same slop that all of the other "news" channels are airing. And who is their competition in that "trusted" category? It must be the BBC whose own goofy banner of "...putting news first..." makes anyone wonder who comes up with such imbecilic slogans for supposed "news" channels, especially since the BBC must be putting their "news" in the same place as CNN is hoarding their "trust" because any casual viewers witness hardly a stipend of either.

Kucinich is the last chance for the US to get what the people want in a democratic, non-violent way.

I'm so bored with Kucinich. We've had plenty of opportunities over the years to hear his schtick and no one is interested. At this point he's just a vanity candidate. I wish he'd give it up.

Since I have worked as a journalist for many years, I sent more or less this letter in to the Register:

Dear Ms. Washburn,

I would like to take this opportunity to express my strong disapproval at the exclusion of presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich from the recent debate on CNN.

As far as I can tell, since he is a legitimately elected member of the House of Representatives, Kucinich had as much a right to participate in the debate as any of the other important candidates did.

The Register was among the entities responsible for facilitating the event. I am disappointed because it appears the paper approves of sidelining or ignoring candidates, whether due to the paper's own biases, or in response to pressure from its political or business relationships.

As a journalist, it has always been my conviction that our work should be governed by the principals of responsibility, objectivity and fairness. Excluding a legitimate presidential candidate from debate is in direct contradiction to these principals.

As the paper's editor and a person of responsibility, please ensure that your organization devotes time to thinking deeply about the ethics of journalism.

cc: Ms. Laura Hollingsworth, Publisher

Is it just me, or is this article formatted so that it is very difficult to read without using horizontal scroll to read it? Just noticing another challenge placed in front of DK.

Peace,
st john

you're not adding any substance or quality to the debate by nitpicking over spelling.

It's amazing that David Goodner can't even spell Kucinich's name but claims to know everything about him. Hint: It's not "Kuchinich." It's Kucinich. Is that really so hard? Who the hell is this "Kuchinich" you keep babbling about?

Richardson also pledges to cut the pentagon budget and withdraw all the troops immediately and he's got a better plan to stop climate change than danny k. he's also way more electable.

David Goodner: The fact that you don't know how to spell KUCINICH leads me to wonder if you really know enough about the man to say he's not "all that", not that I blame you, considering the corporate media doesn't allow many people to know much about him, like the way they excluded him from that debate...
But this is not about an individual running for president as much as it is about DEMOCRACY.. WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, DESERVE to hear from:

the one candidate who supports real, not-for profit health care,

the one candidate who led the opposition to the Iraq war and has voted against all funding bills, and will bring the troops home in 90 days with no permanent military bases, reparations for Iraqis, etc,

the one candidate who will withdraw from NAFTA and the WTO, and get this, he's actually a union member!

the one candidate who had the guts to defend our Constitution by bringing articles of Impeachment against Cheney for lying about Iraq and threatening Iran,

the one candidate who will cut the pentagon budget and invest in education and a new Green Jobs Program,

I could go on.

Voters need to know what their choices are in an election. If you don't want to vote for someone because they didn't spend enough time in Iowa and you interpret that as 'not being a serious candidate', that's your problem, but don't deprive the rest of the voters of knowing who's running and what they stand for. If the media treated Kucinich like the serious candidate that he is, he might just win.

And then I could have health care when I got sick.

I know Paul Street, he lives in Iowa City and is active in the local movement there. His blog and other writings over at Znet are must-reads.

For an excellnt analysis of the goings-on in Iowa, read this:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=90&ItemID=14533

mirft59 you have some good points. Kuchinich deserves kudos for his stance on the iraq war, impeachment, gay marriage, and universal health care. but if he's going to run for president, he needs to actually run for president. lets be honest with ourselves, if he was in the debate, he would have been ignored for practically the whole time, and wouldn't significantly influence the outcome of the race in any way. i think the peace community can do more than defend Kuchinich all the time. We need a better strategy.

Goodner Why don't you just get the fuck off the site and go to redstates.com where you obviously belong!!!

Goodner,

The debate was broadcast on CNN. It was a national debate. The debate did not belong to Iowa anymore than the White House belongs to Iowa. As a national debate, it should present the candidates that are of national interest.

One candidate that is of high interest is the guy that has the guts to introduce impeachment resolutions on the House floor, and to speak out honestly about what is wrong with the country and what needs to be done to fix it.

Kucinich is a very important figure in the election, Iowa or not. Your reasons to exclude him are weak by comparison.

Unless you just love the current Executive Branch, and want to have another just like it back to back.