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Tasers Don't Reduce Shootings, Despite Police and Politicians' Claims
Despite claims by politicians and some police officers that Tasers would save lives by preventing shootings, the devices that are being used by a growing number of police forces were never meant as an alternative to guns, experts say.
Statistics obtained by the Canadian Press bear out that idea, showing that in some of the cities that have recently adopted Tasers, the number of police shootings has remained fairly consistent and low, while Tasers are being used exponentially more often.
In Winnipeg, for example, police shootings of suspects are rare. There was one in 2003, and none in 2004. In 2006, the Winnipeg Police Service fired guns on suspects twice. They also started using Tasers in September of that year, firing them at individuals 37 times before the year was out.
"Tasers are not meant to replace firearms," Cst. Adam Cheadle, the service's use of force co-ordinator, said in a recent interview.
"The Taser is on the same playing field as a baton or [pepper] spray."
n Calgary, there was only one officer-involved shooting in 2003 - two years before Tasers were introduced - and none in 2007. So far this year, Calgary police have "deployed" (a term that includes any incident where the machine is unholstered and its laser is activated, even if it ends up not being fired) their Tasers 133 times.
In Montreal, police were involved in three shooting incidents in 2003, before they had Tasers. They also used their firearms three times last year, while firing Tasers 28 times.
Numbers in many other jurisdictions are hard to come by. The RCMP, whose members have fired Tasers more than 3,000 times since 2001, said it doesn't keep track of how often firearms are used across the country. Police spokespersons in Toronto, Vancouver and Halifax were unable to provide comparable statistics on Taser and gun usage. 'Another use-of-force tool'
The numbers that have been released counter the idea promoted by some politicians and police officials in the early 2000s, when the stun guns were being introduced, that officers would be able to use Tasers instead of their guns and that could save lives.
When the RCMP unveiled plans to equip its Alberta detachments with Tasers in 2002, Sgt. Steve Gleboff told reporters "what we're trying to do is eliminate the necessity to shoot somebody."
Two years later, when controversy erupted over Taser usage in Ontario, then Community Safety Minister Monte Kwinter said the devices were a better alternative to firearms.
Even the man currently probing the RCMP's use of Tasers, Paul Kennedy, head of the RCMP Public Complaints Commission, told a police oversight convention last year that being hit by a Taser was better than being hit by a bullet.
That expectation was wrong, according to the man who trains Calgary police officers to use Tasers.
"Use of force experts across Canada right now, we're kind of shaking our heads going, 'How did we give the impression to the lay public or the media that Tasers were ever supposed to be a replacement for lethal force?'" said Staff Sgt. Chris Butler.
"They were another use-of-force tool in the same regard as the baton, the O.C. spray. Just another tool."
Reduce injuries, compared to batons or spray
While Tasers may not reduce the number of police shootings, Butler said they have succeeded in reducing the number of injuries that can result from an officer having to use a baton or pepper spray on a suspect, or wrestle with him.
"In 99.7 per cent of Taser uses, there are no injuries. When you compare that to a baton use, the statistical likelihood of injuries from a Taser deployment are much less."
The growing use of Tasers was highlighted in an interim report by the RCMP complaints commissioner last week, which said Taser use "has expanded to include subduing resistant subjects who do not pose a threat of grievous bodily harm or death and on whom the use of lethal force would not be an option."
In response, the Mounties issued new guidelines limiting Taser use to situations where "a subject is displaying combative behaviours or is being actively resistant."
Eighteen people in Canada have died in recent years after being hit by a Taser, although the company that manufactures the weapons stresses they have never been directly blamed for a death.
© The Canadian Press, 2007
51 Comments so far
Show AllAccording to conservatives, all of these methods are ok. For instance, waterboarding is a-ok because it produces no physical affects or "permanent damage" or injury.
We have to get off that narrow and irrational train of thought that "if it doesn't cause permanent damage or injury, it can't be torture." It's irrational to believe that such actions are justified as long as those conditions are met.
And remember applying the iceberg principle, ie the Universal Law of Governments. If we know the Government is waterboarding people, especially with Government "information," then by the iceberg principle that means we only have about 10% of the information on what's really occuring- we only see the tip of the iceberg, the rest is about what our Government is really doing torture wise is hidden.
Also remember the reverse principle. When the Government declares something a "national security concern, or secret of national security- that 'saves lives or could cost lives'" 90% of the time they're lying, and they know they're doing something wrong.
But if they really don't think Tazers and Waterboarding are torture, perhaps they would like to experience it firsthand before making their deliberate prejudgments.
"...the company that manufactures the weapons stresses they have never been directly blamed for a death."
Of course pushing someone off a bridge can also never be directly blamed for the death. It is the landing or ingestion of water or heart attack that is to blame, so the practice of pushing people off bridges should not be condemned.
The question is whether our police forces bought a weapon system from a bunch of flaming idiots, or from lying immoral bastards.
Tasers may have their place in law enforcement if used correctly. Unfortunately, some individuals seem to get a sadistic pleasure in continuing to use them after their victim is already down, as we have seen in several cases. The problem is the same with guns, tasers, or sprays, and that is the excessive or improper use of them. Apparently, we will always have people with poor judgment or attitude, but every effort should be made to educate those indivuals carrying weapons in their proper use.
It's ok...soon there will be a microwave ray guns which will replace tasers. The pentagon is already working on it!
someone needs to invent a tazer-proof jacket.
"Canadians 10 times more likely to be Tasered to Death by Police then Americans"
http://www.chycho.com/?q=Canada_Taser
"With the use of Tasers, in the last few weeks, the police have killed the following nine people in the United States and Canada:
- Sammy Baker - Quitman, Georgia - Oct. 1, 2007
- Robert Dziekanski - Vancouver, Canada - Oct. 14, 2007
- Quilem Registre - Montreal, Canada - Oct. 17, 2007
- Jarrel Gray - Frederick, Maryland - Nov. 18, 2007
- Christian Allen - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 18, 2007
- Jesse Saenz - Albuquerque, New Mexico - Nov. 18, 2007
- Unidentifed Man - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 20. 2007
- Howard Hyde - Halifax, Nova Scotia - Nov. 22, 2007
- Robert Knipstrom - British Columbia, Canada - Nov. 24, 2007
As horrific as these statistics are, it gets worse for Canada if we do a direct comparison to the United States. "........
From what I've read of these machines they're nothing more than portable torture devices. Like other forms of torture they can result in killing the person against whom they're used. So far they're not used in North America to elicit a confession, but for how much longer will that be true.
The stats from winnipeg and cowburg are most telling. The cops aren't threatened in Canada by the citizens, but that hasn't prevented them (the police) from terrorizing themselves.
RAVEN
i tend to favour 'lying immoral bastards' scenario......
The tasers are just a symptom of the real problem and getting rid of them wouldn't solve what ails capitalist societies. The only solution that will move countries toward just societies will be to eliminate the criminal mafias which run all corporate governments. Then, instead of hiring immoral thugs as a police force for controlling and intimidating the populace, people of a moral stature can be recruited to enforce a new set of laws which are designed to regulate social life according to humanist values. If the leaders of a country are crooks, such as is currently the case in the U.S. and Canada, then they are going to rely on other crooks for their own protection. And if those worthless type of "officers" are killing people with tasers in situations that previously no one would have died from their earlier control methods, then those deaths are second degree murder. To speak of such crimes in any gentler terms is a deceit.
A bullet doesn't have a name on it. If an officer is forced to use a firearm and misses (or even hits with a pass through) where does the bullet go then? You and I are in danger at that point.
Pepper Spray is an effective deterrent but the officer is usually contaminated with the spray as well. The idea is to subdue the perpetrator not the officer.
The Taser seems to be the most effective means of subduing a suspect.
It is unfortunate that sometimes you are forced to use the Taser but in cases where you have a violent criminal or a non-compliant idiot like Jared Massey, you simply have no choice but to use it.
The reason this weapon gets such a bad rap is because of blatant misuse / unprofessionalism by some law enforcement such as the case of Andrew Meyer and Robert Dziekanski.
The vast majority of police do a lot of good for the community. It is very unfortunate that a few bad eggs give the whole department a black eye.
As to the weapon being used to torture someone - please. A fork can be used to torture someone. Tobasco sauce can be used to torture someone. Torture is wrong no matter what you use to torture. The Taser isn't the problem there.
mastershake -
All police and military personnel are require to be blasted stright in the face with pepper spray and be Tasered in order to even qualify to handle the weapon.
The slight pepper spray on police officers as an education is far different than the voluminous spraying of girls from a gallon container of pepper spray such as is exibited in news footage in Vancouver. Any similar phoney demonstration of abuse to healthy officers is in no way acceptable as a scientific representation of the endurance of all the people who are to be tasered. Such goofy propaganda might persuade the insensible grannies, but the rest of us know that the evil scum which currently comprise modern police forces must be eliminated.
TheLorax December 17th, 2007 2:47 pm
that's also a fallacious argument.
Because the police are trained to withstand it means it's not that bad? Justifies them doing it to people (who aren't trained)?
Rebuttal to TheLorax,
It's not true that cops are "blasted straight in the face" with pepper spray in training for its use.
In the Humboldt Pepper Spray Eight case, county deputies swabbed pepper spray with Q-tips directly into the eyes of seated, nonviolent forest activists in order to torture them into unlocking the chains that joined them together. Those who didn't unlock after the first swabbing were swabbed a second time. One woman of a pair who still refused to unlock had pepper spray blasted straight into her eyes from a can held just 3 in. away. When she still refused to give in, the pair were carried outside and their locking devices were cut off in a few minutes with an electric grinder. The latter method had been used dozens of times before, always successfully and without injury.
According to expert testimony at trial in 2005, the officers who used the pepper spray had a small amount swabbed on their faces below the eyes during training. They were not subjected to full face sprays.
A San Francisco federal jury in the Humboldt Eight case found that the cops had used excessive force by using pepper spray to coerce nonviolent people when they had other means to separate them.
One of the cops' defense witnesses was a guy from Taser, and he gave the fatuous testimony that no death had ever been proved to have happened because of Taser use. Over a hundred deaths have occurred in connection with Taser use, however, and only an idiot or a corporate shill would claim that Tasers never cause death.
Details of the Humboldt Eight case can be found at http://www.nopepperspray.org
If you are against the use of a Taser and pepper spray to subdue a perpetrator then offer your solution.
Do you suggest physical confrontation? The officer is carrying weapons that can be grabbed and used by a criminal during a struggle.
The baton is much more dangerous than any Taser.
All that's left is deadly force or just let the criminal walk away and have no law.
Please offer your alternative to firearms.
The bottom line is that if people would just obey the law none of this junk would be necessary.
I have qualified in the use of pepper spray. In order to qualify I had 2 passes right-left and left-right from 4' directly over my eyes. The pepper spray was 10% military grade. After being sprayed I was required to run an obstacle course, perform a takedown, handcuffing, and arrest of an actual person before I could even start wiping it off. Nobody was ever "swabbed below the eyes". It was painful and difficult to endure.
I have not qualified on the use of a Taser but I'm sure that it won't be pleasant.
oh please Lorax. You really think the police can do no wrong? They're perfect beings who always use the appropriate methods, and never abuse their power? It's not the methods they're using, it's the INNAPPROPRIATE USE of the method, and ABUSE of their power.
And that wouldn't be so much of a problem if there was an justice for the bad apples who do abuse their power, but there's not. There's no enforcement, no responsibility, and no accountability for the perpetrators who commit these wrongful acts. Half are aquited by the system, the other half never face a trial or review at all. Imagine having not only power but PHYSICAL power over people, but without restraint, rules, let alone having to take responsibility for your actions. No pun intended, it's a complete copout.
Nevertheless, this is coming from the same crowd who could watch Bush kick a puppy on national television, and they'd still be right there to defend it... "Uh well, uh, you see the dog had it coming." "If the dog would just obey, the master wouldn't have to resort to abusing their power."
Speaking of dogs, it's clear that people are still living in a paradigm of master/slave mentality, but the trick is they don't realize they're the slave. Gotta give props to the dog though, the dog at least has some sense and awareness that he's braindead.
As soon as people start using them AGAINST the police, then we will finally hear all the other sides of the taser arguement in the MSM.
Oh also, again, when you see counterprotests of "support the war..." for instance.
again nonviolence is the answer. Bring dog food with you, canned or dry, doesn't matter. You'll want the dog food so you can throw it at the counterprotesters (remember, if it doesn't cause permanent physical harm, injury, or organ failure, like waterboarding, it's protected by the constitution). And i'm quite serious too. Bring dog food with you; this is a new era of protest where you have to be creative if you want your voice heard. Throw the dog food at the counterprotestors, and hopefully it will dawn on them that they're a pack of wiley, mangy, graveling muts. And if they don't want to come to that realization, by all means, they can continue graveling to their masters begging to be thrown some scraps.
Like a Dog, some people think the world just happens, on it's own...
Please don't misunderstand me. I do think "cops can do no wrong". In fact, I feel that there is a lot of corruption in many law enforcement agencies that needs to be fixed. Internal affairs needs some work.
I've seen fascist police before and I do not, nor will I ever support, their actions.
In the Humboldt forestry case, the police acted in an unprofessional manner, used excessive force, and the matter went to trial. The victims won. Unfortunately the police weren't jailed for their crime.
I cannot agree with you that "all cops are bad". There has to be some law and order. In my community, most police are helpful and polite. Their presence has kept the comminity crime level in check. I'm not saying that corruption isn't there though.
You are right about accountability. It's a nationwide problem and exists all the way up to the highest levels of our government. I feel your pain there but don't say things like "all cops are fascists" or "everyone that works in the government is corrupt" because it's overgeneralizing.
To be fair, the police are not trained to withstand it. They are simply supposed to have an idea of how it feels. No one can withstand pepper spray in the eyes or being tazered. Well, given enough PCP one might be able to for a little while, but then you're a vegetable, so the cops won.
I went through Marine Corps boot camp in the 70's, in a tent full of tear gas we had to remove our gas mask, state our name, rank, and serial number then we had to put our mask and clear it before we could leave the tent. They wanted to make sure we knew how to put on that equipment when the order went out. The stuff used in combat is much worse. It was reassuring knowing that the mask really works.
I saw the video of that guy being tasered at the John Kerry speech. Completely un-called for. The problem is the police have the idea that it's not a deadly weapon and reach for it at the first sign of anything. If you don't fall to the ground spread eagle, you can expect to get tasered. It's how the police state terrorizes people. Maybe if the police had to endure being tasered for as long as many times as they used it, maybe they'd only use it when really necessary.
On second thought I say all republicans who want to run for office or give more than $50 to a republican campaign should get tasered for a while, then waterboarded for a half hour, or until they talk. (About what, I don't know. They could tell me their gay and that they promote anti-gay legislation because they hate themselves but they love the power and the money...)
alright fair enough Lorax, but I never said all cops are fascists, and I even said in my thread "A few bad apples" meaning it's really just a few of them giving all the police a bad name. I think we have an understanding...
And if you (anyone) want to waterboard the TERRORISTS, I think that's fine if you feel that way... you're entitled to your opinion. In some cases it might be warrented, but...
don't try to pretend like a method like waterboarding is not torture. It is torture. You may say it's necessary, and justified, but don't tuck your head in the sand and 1-pretend it's not happening or 2-claim it's not torture. If you're going to defend the practice to no end, at least be able to come to grips with the reality of it.
But again, that 30% who don't think it's torture is an alarming number. Is it arrogance? Hardheadedness? Perhaps they would like to be waterboarded before they're so hasty towards judgement.
Lorax
"the police can do no wrong" You really meant that? Wow. you obviously don't live in Portland Or.
The use of taser needs to be investigated the same as every use of a gun is. The idea that this is a safe non-leathal method of controling unruly people needs to be stopped dead in its tracks. I for one would love to have my own taser proof coat, then I would feel safe protesting again. I'm supposed to be living in a freespeech zone, from sea to shining sea. I should be able to say what I want, when I want, and where I want without fear of being tasered.
Taser is a bullshit weapon of the fascist state. Rifles are for the military or for hunting, pistols are for shooting people, the taser is for intimidation.
The Gestapo would have loved the taser.
Would I rather be shot or tasered? I doubt I would like either, but then I don't believe I'd ever do anything that would require either.
I meant to say "I DON'T think cops can do no wrong".
Holy smoke I'll get eaten alive on this thread for that comment haha.
If you read the whole post you'll understand my meaning.
I don't know how I got that wrong maybe I'm getting suckered into the system....
Only a moron would believe that waterboarding was not torture. Okay, someone who has lived without a radio or TV and has no access to a newspaper might think waterboarding something that Americans do when on summer vacation at the lake.
No, it's not okay to torture terrorists or anyone else. Besides the fact that we have no clue who the terrorists are, We've tortured many and put zero on trial and we now we have ZERO standing in the free world with respect to human rights. Funny how the destroyed videos were from the suspects who confirmed the 9/11 attacks. Did they destroy them because when they look back they decided they couldn't tell if they were speaking the truth or just said what they thought would get the torture to stop? Or did they realize that were the videos to end up on YouTube they would all be out of a job if not on trial.
Torture doesn't work, never has, never will. It didn't work for the Nazi's, it won't work for us. During WWII the Japanese and to some extant the Nazis used torture to intimidate, or simply to make someone feel a lot of pain because either they were sicko, or they were sicko. I suppose on some level there are some people I would like to torture, mostly because I believe they have caused a lot of pain for people around the world and I would so dearly love to be there when "what goes around finally gets around"
Today's white house is full of War Criminals and monsters who's crimes against humanity will one day catch up with them. If I believed in the afterlife, I suppose I would be satisfied with them roasting for etenity. But I don't I can only hope that I will be around to see them purp-walked to The Hague in chains.
But we won't torture them. Maybe an extremely painful execution for the guilty.
As I've mentioned on other sites, the danger is the growing use of Tasers as a "pain compliance" tool. Someone is being belligerent or non-cooperative, so the officer uses the Taser to force compliance. In fact, police departments have already stated such use of the Taser is legitimate.
Unfortunately, there seems to be a whole rash of new, "non-lethal" energy weaponry being developed (such as microwave weapons) that will soon be used as pain compliance tools for crowd control.
If pain compliance is a legitimate use for the Taser, what constitutes the threshold for belligerence or non-compliance? The road we travel down if we accept this use for the Taser is that cops will get less confrontation de-escalation training because who needs to be reasonable when you can put someone on the ground with 50,000 volts and suffer very little scrutiny or repercussions?
The short-term problem is that the Taser is in danger of being the fall-back tool of the untrained (insecure, power-hungry, megalomaniacal) officer in the field.
Someone said to me recently, "Hey, I remember when they used to just club you over the head, so this Taser thing is a good idea." But that's a false choice to me. Any new tool, which can be used wisely (but which rarely is), should not be considered substitution for proper training.
If we legitimize Tasers as a non-lethal, pain-compliance tool rather than as a potentially lethal weapon (which it clearly is) we're simply inviting it to be used on people who don't comply with an order to disperse from a lawful protest rally, or on people who get a little mouthy, or on poor deaf guys who have their doors kicked in by cops who got the wrong address in the first place.
And ultimately, it's not so much the Taser that I have a problem with. I'm confident it could be a legitimate tool for law enforcement if officers are properly trained. But I'm disturbed that its use has become so expansive and unregulated in such a short amount of time and that many police departments across the county have become apologists for obviously over-zealous use by their officers.
This, it seems, is how it all starts. The legitimization of pain-compliance tools in the civilian arena without oversight or explicitly clear rules of engagement will lead to the use of pain-compliance weapons on the civilian population in order to control/disrupt lawful dissent.
Because, in the end, the question becomes: Compliant to whom and for what reason?
nondescript December 17th, 2007 3:44 pm
People and the Police also have the backwards mentality, well IF the Cop is/was wrong (big IF), it will show up in court that they were wrong, and they will be punished and reprimanded. Unfortuntely, as we've seen time and time again, most of the time at least accountability and responsibility aren't exactly virtues of the government.
You've seen videos, and you've even heard the cops say the same thing. "If i'm wrong, prove it in a court." or "If i'm wrong, it will show up in a court." It's beyond a failure to listen, and it's definately a failure of resonable and rational thought. A cop is supposed to be trained to think on the spot, in tight situations. If they can't handle ordinary situations, without resorting to irrational techniques in the wrong circumstances, do you really think we can trust these individuals when shit hits the fan?
Lorax, I'm glad you didn't really feel that way, I figured you mis-typed.
There may be a time when it is justified to use pepper spray or the taser. If you're walking down the street and are attacked, I say use them both if you can.
At the WTO protests in Seattle I saw peaceful protestors get their heads pulled back and pepper sprayed into their eyes for several seconds. I doubt your training included that. And that was full strength spray. I don't think it's ever okay to attack people who are being peaceful in any manner. It should be as much a crime for a cop to do that as it would be for me to walk up to some stranger on the street and pepper them.
Yes, there were some self-styled "anarchists" in Seattle, I think the police got upset/frustrated about the people they can't catch and took it out on the people they could. Which is a crime and should be prosecuted as one.
Trust a cop? Not in seattle! I have never had a problem with highway patrol, they are cool. If you want to be a real cop join them!
You can't be a real cop by joining any of the current forces because they are all subject to direction by the evil conglomerates which make up modern governments.
jmacneil December 17th, 2007 2:10 pm .....The problem could not be more clearly stated. The corruption, immorality and BLATANT DISREGARD for the sacredness of human life and the Universal right to be safe MUST START with our leadership. This administration has set the poorest example in the history of this Republic; a sad testimony indeed.
Here's a thought: Since tasers obviously have plenty of stored energy. How about the manufacturers start including a mini-camera and microphone, along with their laser sites, so that we will have both a visual and audio recording of what the target/victim was doing and/or saying at the time the trigger was pulled. I'd bet dimes to doughnuts that we would see the number of incidents drop dramatically.
considerimg the local nazis running the police I'd say the problem is hiring from the shallow end of the gene pool
Most Tasers can be used like cattle prods, you don't have to fire the Taser to use it. The problem is in the training and more so in the supervision of officers not in the tool the officer uses. The Mag-light flashlight was used like a baton before it was banned in L.A.
There are probably bigger budgets for new tools and firearms than there are for better training and oversight...
salvia,your list is woefully abbreviated....there have been so many deaths in florida by taser,i have now lost count of them.tasers were only tested on male subjects before being approved for use(by jeb bush,i think)what about women ?women contain alot more electrically conductive water,naturally,in their bodies(as opposed to men)recently a pregnant woman was tasered,altho she didnt die...what effect could it have on the unborn fetus,floating in fluid ???(no tests that i know of,have ever been done.) police do seem to get sadistically carried away,continuing to deliver zaps,once the subject is down.many medical conditions are incompatible with tasering and lead to death.police cannot know the medical status of the rowdy and people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty,anyway.tasering is most definitely a form of torture......the bush-era has made torture in vogue.....
thanks nayoibi for the additional info ... i hope to find the list at some point ... very hard finding out what the actual numbers are
i can't believe they tested a taser on a pregnant woman ... my god :(
Salvia, I would prefer a 12 month comparison to a two month comparison (because those two months were the two deadliest months as far as Tasers go in Canada in 4 years). It may be a little less humiliating if you tell me how many people died of Tasers in the last four years. There were also two highly publicized RCMP deaths which may have made cops more trigger happy than usual - Christopher Worden on Oct 6 and Douglas Scott on Nov 5.
Note that there have been 20 Taser deaths in Canada in four years (which would be equal to 180 American deaths by your calculations).
I can provide details on the 20 Canadian Taser deaths or are you only interested in October and November?
Any ways, there are enough true Canadian scandals that you don't have to make up any.
Report calls for RCMP to split from federal government
Force still would be accountable to Public Safety Ministry
It's been a year of scandals
The task force's report comes during a scandal-plagued year for the Mounties that goes beyond the pension fund allegations.
The year featured the resignation of RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli after he admitted he had given incorrect testimony to a parliamentary committee looking into the Maher Arar affair.
The force has also faced heavy criticism over its fatal takedown of a Polish immigrant involving Taser use by four Mounties at Vancouver International Airport in October.
The RCMP has also been reeling from the recent deaths of two members killed in the line of duty in separate shootings in two northern communities.
The slayings led to heavy examination of the RCMP's policies on officer backup request procedures in short-staffed and remote detachments.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/12/14/mounties-report.html
Former adviser to Harper and Day lobbies for Taser
OTTAWA — A Tory election strategist and former adviser to both the prime minister and public safety minister became a lobbyist for Taser International soon after use of its stun guns came under intense scrutiny.
Consultant Ken Boessenkool registered the Arizona-based Taser maker as a client on Nov. 28, two weeks after the videotaped death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski unleashed international outrage.
"I'm not authorized to speak on behalf of my client to the media," Boessenkool said when reached Friday. "I'd refer you to the Taser media line."
No comment from Taser International was immediately available.
Boessenkool, of the public relations firm Hill & Knowlton, was a senior adviser in opposition to now Prime Minister Stephen Harper. He played key strategic roles in the 2004 and 2006 Conservative election campaigns, and was a policy adviser to Stockwell Day — now public safety minister — when Day was treasurer of Alberta.
Boessenkool lists Day's department and the RCMP as potential points of contact in his filing with the Registrar of Lobbyists.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071214/taser_lobby_071214/20071214?hub=Politics
Do you hate "Doris" enough yet?!
Raven quotes: "…the company that manufactures the weapons stresses they have never been directly blamed for a death."
That is because Taser pays the way for coroners to attend their seminars. Where was the last one held? Oh yes, who wouldn't want to spend time in Los Vegas during the middle of winter! BTW - thanks for the quote so I could use it to make a point. ;)
Police Taser allegedly used for party fun
Sat Dec 15 2007, WPG Free Press
By Ian Hitchen
BRANDON -- Police pulled out a Taser weapon at a house party and zapped people who wanted to feel the jolt, officials have been told.
The stun gun was reportedly brought by an on-duty officer to the party, where civilians were socializing with off-duty officers. Some partygoers asked to be Tasered, and allegedly they were.
The report of recreational Tasering has prompted a high-level performance management review that involves as many as four officers.
"Police are investigating an allegation that a Taser was used in an unauthorized manner," Brandon Police Service Sgt. Rick Semler said. "It's alleged that the Taser was used in an unauthorized demonstration at a social gathering."
Brandon police usually don't discuss internal matters publicly, but Semler said the force is making a public statement partly because Tasers are under scrutiny following the deaths of men who were shocked by police in other Canadian cities.
Shortly after those national incidents in October, including an airline passenger who died after he was Tasered in the Vancouver airport, Brandon police promised they would investigate any local allegations of Taser misuse.
"The police service is standing by this," Semler said. "We believe the public needs to know that such commitments are taken very seriously."
The incident reportedly happened in late October at a Brandon home where on-duty and off-duty police were present, Semler said.
A source said the Taser was used on at least one officer and at least one willing, curious civilian. There was no account of which part of their bodies was hit.
Semler wouldn't give further details of the Taser incident, such as how many people were shocked, or whether there were alcoholic beverages at the party.
Brandon Police Association president Kevin Loewen said he's aware of the police review but didn't have details.
Officers are divided in their opinions about the alleged incident. Some don't think it's a big deal. Others are concerned that it shows Taser guns are being used too lightly.
Members of the media, including Free Press police reporter Bruce Owen, were Tasered as part of an organized demonstration when Manitoba police forces introduced the stun guns in 2006.
Despite the differing opinions, Semler said Brandon police take the alleged party incident seriously.
"We have to be professional," he said. "We will investigate any allegation of unauthorized or misuse of a Taser, and that's what we're doing."
He wouldn't specify how long the review will take, but said any wrongdoing could result in discipline ranging from remedial training to suspension or dismissal.
Brandon Sun
"No one in Winnipeg has died from a Taser, which has been used 95 times this year, but they have been used for a short time here." - Free Press Editorial
MASTERSHAKE___ Liked your theory of the iceberg, that we only see or hear about a small part of what is really going on that should not be. Another idea that I have heard for many years is that if you see one rat, you have one hundred. I`m afraid we have quite a number of rats around that need watching.
It seems to me that the police use violence as first resort, rather than the last resort. Police probably shouldn't give orders that are not necessary in the first place. If it is necessary to give orders, then verbal persuasion should be the first resort. The police victims should be given a very good chance to comply before using violence. I think the USA and Canada have cultural problems that allows people to justify violence on the most flimsiest of pretexts.
Lorax,
Jarad Massey, refused to sign. Signing is a voluntary act, or it is not valid at all. Tasering Jarad Massey for non compliance with the wishes of the officer is definitely NOT a valid reason for the use of that sort of force.
Because the Taser is a potentially lethal weapon, having caused over 300 deaths, its use should be permitted only in circumstances where lethal force may lawfully be used, i.e., when the life of the law officer or another person is in clear and immediate danger. Its use as a punitive device constitutes torture, which is illegal no matter what Bush, Cheney, Dershowitz, Gonzales and Yoo might think. Its use to subdue unruly but not dangerous persons should be considered excessive force in the same way that use of firearms would be. Because the Taser is less lethal than firerms it may have a place in law enforcement, but clear national guidelines for its use are urgently needed.
I would like to make a few suggestions: lying to the gov. (Zachardelli) should be similar in concept to contempt of court. In recent years there have been many cases of lying to the house or senate, I don't remember hearing of the consequences. our news services not reporting? the rcmp spin doctor in uniform lying to the public on tv re the behavior of the person tasered to death at vanc. airport. I suggest that these crimes committed by those whose behavior is vital to the public trust in our representatives be punished by the same guidelines we use to punish those who speed in construction zones. double the punishment!
AlexLawyer says: Because the Taser is a potentially lethal weapon, having caused over 300 deaths, its use should be permitted only in circumstances where lethal force may lawfully be used, i.e., when the life of the law officer or another person is in clear and immediate danger. Its use as a punitive device constitutes torture
That is the point I was making - though the 20 Canadian deaths by Taser are still too many.
Whether it's over-use is mainly punitive or a lazy means of gaining compliance is debatable, though. I figure that it is probably a bit of both.
Police are convinced that it is safe because most of the time they use it nothing bad happens. Then again, most of the times a drunk drives home, nothing bad happens either.
Why is Taser acting like the tobacco companies of old and convincing everyone that their product is safe?
And why give high profile coroners paid vacations if their product is perfectly safe? If it is completely safe, they would not need this kind of beholdeness.
braithwa842-
You are incorrect about Jared Massey. He was confrontational with the officer from the moment he was pulled over. If you look at the ticket, it says that signing the ticket is voluntary but you may be subject to arrest for refusal to sign. Jared Massey refused to sign and remained confrontational, refusing every command the officer gave. When the officer told him to put his hands behind his back, he said "NO". When the officer drew his Taser, Jared Massey still refused to comply and said "What is wrong with you?" and tried to return to his vehicle.
At no time did Jared Massey comply with any instruction from the officer. He said "NO" to the officers commands 3 times. The time to argue your case is in front of the judge not on the side of a highway with cars blowing by you at 70 mph.
There are many cases where police abused their authority or acted in an unprofessional manner. In this case, Jared Massey needed to be tased to gain his compliance. In fact, through his actions he practically asked the officer to subdue him. Jared Massey is a complete moron.
"someone needs to invent a tazer-proof jacket."
No help...when wearing a jacket, the targets become legs (or worse, face/neck).
Tasers and the-like are just 'new tools' actually-preferable to batons/chemicals/fisticuffs ... but like 'all new things', police need to become aware of their PROPER use and situational-ethics (so that they don't serve as 'new toys').
Sad, but true, officers are our needful 'enforcement-actors' -- when our peers (or 'we') don't comply with our common-sense self-Rules and legal-system. Yes, due to human-nature there is ever-present need to restrict abuse of Authority (as for ALL in our Governance), but don't go-overboard and deny these-Actors what they need and can employ when they actually must 'act'. The opposite-extreme that would result would also 'not be to your liking'...
The biggest-danger to such as Tasers is the ease with which Officers can leave their necessary-role (as one who must exert 'control' occasionally, as Enforcement) and drift-into roles outside their appropriate-purview (easily and unconsciously lapsing into Punishment -- which is for a dispassionate and circumspect Justice-system, ideally -- not the 'on the scene' police).
Ghouliani's link to the taser explosion:
Bernard Kerik, former Giuliani's driver , is behind the sudden advancement of tasers. The phenominal rise of tasers is mainly due to the efforts of Rudy Giuliani. In 2001, Taser International developed its "Advanced Taser Electro-Muscular Disruption" system and became a publicly traded company ("Taser"). In 2000, Giuliani installed Kerik as the New York City police commissioner. In 2002, Kerik, a senior vice president at Giuliani Partners and CEO of Giuliani-Kerik LLC, became Taser's director.
With Kerik at the steering wheel, Taser's profits grew ten times in two years, to $68 million in 2004, up from just under $7 million in 2001. By the way, sales have been helped along by police officers who have received payments and/or stock options from Taser to serve as instructors and trainers.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_zak_maym_071129_giuliani_s_driver_br.htm
Please don't elect Giuliani! Seems like Taser also has someone who used to work for Harper and Day too.
They certainly know who to buy!
Well, this discussion has drifted a bit...
Tasers are still devices which are used to generate pain, thus they're torture machines; like the rack, the thumbscrew, whips, or branding irons. Using them to get people to comply with authority is wrong, tasering someone for refusing to sign a ticket is a fucking stupid thing to do. Was that something that the ticketee could have really been arrested for? The cop had the information he needed, what was the point of having the guy sign the damn ticket? The ticketee would either have to show up in court to argue his case, or pay the fine when his licence came up for renewal. No need to hurt him.
Speaking of going thru gas warfare training. A few people have mentioned that the experience should be required for those who use chemical weapons; they're right. One thing everyone should be aware of is that a former world leader - A. Hitler - was gassed in the first world war, when leading the most murderous warstate in recent history, he refused to use gas against the allies. If being tasered generated that level of aversion to using it amongst the police officers being trained, I might agree that it could be a useful weapon for them. It doesn't. Being gassed by CS is nasty, but let's face it, cs isn't mustard gas.
skippyagogo41-
Well if that's the case why even pull over? The cop already caught you speeding what's the point in stopping for him? In fact, let's just eliminate police altogether! That would be real swell. It's working great in Iraq.
There has to be some law and order. Continual non-compliance is a sure way to end up getting hurt. He was not tased for refusing to sign a ticket. He was tased for continual failure to comply with an officers instructions and resisting arrest. Only an idiot tells a cop NO and gets argumentative during a routine traffic stop.
There is a time to resist police to the point where you have to be tased and there's a time to comply. Getting stopped for a minor traffic infraction is the time to comply. Organized protesting is the time to prepare yourself for some pain. We need to know the difference.