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What Is Probably in the Missing Tapes
To judge from firsthand documents obtained by the ACLU through a FOIA lawsuit, we can guess what is probably on the missing CIA interrogation tapes -- as well as understand why those implicated are spinning so hard to pretend the tapes do not document a series of evident crimes. According to the little-noticed but extraordinarily important book Administration of Torture: A Documentary Record from Washington to Abu Ghraib and Beyond (Jameel Jaffer and Amrit Singh, Columbia University Press, New York 2007), which presents dozens of original formerly secret documents - FBI emails and memos, letters and interrogator "wish lists," raw proof of the systemic illegal torture of detainees in various US-held prisons -- the typical "harsh interrogation" of a suspect in US custody reads like an account of abuses in archives at Yad Vashem.
More is still being hidden as of this writing -- as those in Congress now considering whether a special prosecutor is needed in this case should be urgently aware: "Through the FOIA lawsuit," write the authors, "we learned of the existence of multiple records relating to prisoner abuse that still have not been released by the administration; credible media reports identify others. As this book goes to print, the Bush administration is still withholding, among many other records, a September 2001 presidential directive authorizing the CIA to set up secret detention centers overseas; an August 2002 Justice Department memorandum advising the CIA about the lawfulness of waterboarding [Italics mine; nota bene, Mr. Mukasey] and other aggressive interrogation methods; documents describing interrogation methods used by special operations forces in Iraq and Afghanistan; investigative files concerning the deaths of prisoners in U.S. custody; and numerous photographs depicting the abuse of prisoners at detention facilities other than Abu Ghraib.'
What we are likely to see if the tapes documenting the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah and Abd Al-Rahim Al-Nashiri are ever recovered is that the "confessions" of the prisoners upon which the White House has built its entire case for subverting the Constitution and suspending civil liberties in this country was obtained through methods such as electrocution, beating to the point of organ failure, hanging prisoners from the wrists from a ceiling, suffocation, and threats against family members ("I am going to find your mother and I am going to fuck her" is one direct quote from a US interrogator). On the missing tapes, we would likely see responses from the prisoners that would be obvious to us as confessions to anything at all in order to end the violence. In other words, if we could witness the drama of manufacturing by torture the many violently coerced "confessions" upon which the whole house of cards of this White House and its hyped "war on terror" rests, it would likely cause us to reopen every investigation, including the most serious ones (remember, even the 9/11 committee did not receive copies of the tapes); shut down the corrupt, Stalinesque Military Commissions System; turn over prisoners, the guilty and the innocent, into a working, accountable justice system operating in accordance with American values; and direct our legal scrutiny to the torturers themselves -- right up to the office of the Vice President and the President if that is where the investigations would lead.
By the way: "The prohibition against torture [in the law] is considered to be a jus cogens norm, meaning that no derogation is permitted from it under any circumstances."
This is what the FOIA documents report, belying White House soundbites that "we don't torture" and explaining the intent pursuit on the part of the CIA and the White House of the current apparent obstruction of justice:
Late 2002 -- the FBI objects to the illegality of abuses being put into place by the Defense Department in its "special interrogation plan" to use isolation, sleep deprivation and menacing with dogs against prisoners.
Dec 2, 2002 -- Defense Secretary Rumsfeld personally issues a directive authorizing the use of stress positions, hooding, removal of clothing, and the terrorizing of inmates at Guantanamo with dogs.
Dec 3, 2002 -- at Baghram, interrogators kill an Afghan prisoner "by shackling him by his wrists to the wire ceiling above his cell and repeatedly beating his legs. A postmortem report finds abrasions and contusions on the prisoner's face, head, neck, arms and legs and determines that the death was a "homicide" caused by "blunt force injuries."
April 16, 2003 -- Rumsfeld approves yet another directive for abusive interrogation.
This directive for Afghanistan restores to the interrogators' arsenal many forms of torture that had been resisted by the FBI. [Notably, the FBI had resisted complying with the direct commission of torture since as early as 2002 because, as its Behavioral Analysis Unit complained to the Defense Department at that time in an internal email, "not only are these tactics at odds with legally permissible interviewing techniques [italics mine: in other words, all concerned know these are apparent war crimes]...but they are being employed by personnel in GTMO who have little, if any, experience eliciting information for judicial purposes." In other words, as any trained interrogator knows, the abuses are both doubtless illegal and certainly ineffective for getting real intelligence. [Jaffer and Singh, Timeline of Key Events, pp. 45-65,op. cit.]
Oct 22 2003 -- Final autopsy report relating to death of "52 y/o Iraqi Male, Civilian Detainee" held by U.S. forces in Nasiriyah, Iraq. Prisoner was found to have "died as a result of asphyxia...due to strangulation."
November 14, 2003 -- a sworn statement of a soldier stationed at Camp Red, Baghdad, states that "I saw what I think were war crimes" and that "the chain of command....allowed them to happen."
May 13, 2004 -- a sworn statement of the 302nd Military Intelligence Battalion recounts an incident in which "interrogators abused 17-year-old son of prisoner in order to 'break' the prisoner."
May 18, 2004 -- a Privacy Act statement of an Abu Ghraib sergeant notes that prisoners had been forced to stand "naked with a bag over their head, standing on MRE boxes and their hand[s] spread out...holding a bottle in each hand."
May 24, 2004 -- Sworn statement of interrogator who arrived at Abu Ghraib in October 2003, discussing use of military dogs against juvenile prisoners.
June 16, 2004 -- Marine Corps document describing abuse cases between September 2001 and June 2004, including "substantiated" incidents in which marines electrocuted a prisoner and set another's hands on fire.
Undated: Sworn statement of screener who arrived at Abu Ghraib in September 2003, indicating that prisoners at Asamiya Palace in Baghdad had been beaten, burned and subjected to electric shocks.
Subsequent internal documents record prisoners being stripped, made to walk into walls blindfolded, punched, kicked, dragged about the room, observed to have bruises and burn marks on their backs, and having their jaws deliberately broken. Still other reports document further incidents classified by the military itself as probable murders committed by US interrogators.
The book also reveals an extraordinary original transcript of a Dept. of the Army Inspector General interview with Lieutenant General Randall Marc Schmidt. Lt. Gen. Schmidt had interfaced with MG Geoffrey Miller on the one hand -- the most brutal overseer of such abuses, the one who was sent to "Gitmo-ize" other prisons -- and the honorable JAG military lawyers on the other hand, over the abuses under investigation at that time. [Lt. Gen. Schmidt advised MG Miller of his rights under Article 31 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice at that time -- in other words, those involved know something serious is at stake, p. a-16].
The transcript of this internal document reveals Lt. Gen. Schmidt's own words that it was his understanding that the directives to commit these acts, many of which are apparently war crimes, came right from the top.
The interview was not primarily intended to be a public document:
"An Inspector General" notes the document, "is an impartial fact-finder for the Directing Authority Testimony taken by an IG and reports based on that testimony may be used for official purposes. Access is normally restricted to persons who clearly need the information to perform their official duties. [italics mine]. In some cases, disclosure to other persons may be required by law or regulation or may be directed by proper authority." As in the case, clearly, here -- though the immense implications of this privately taken testimony have not reverberated fully yet in a public forum: "I thought the Secretary of Defense in good faith was approving techniques," testified Lt. Gen. Schmidt. "In good faith after talking to him twice. I know that -- and these weren't interrogations or interviews of him. This was our hour and forty-five minutes and then another hour and fifteen kind of thing were [sic] we sat in there and had these discussions with him." [Testimony of Lt. Gen. Randall M Schmidt, Taken 24 August 2005 at Davis Mountain Air Force Base, Arizona, Dept. of the Army Inspector General, Investigations Division, pp. a-30 to a-53, Jaffer and Singh, op. cit].
So what should Congress know as it decides what is to be done?
We torture, illegally, by directive; the directives come from the top; those who torture know it is probably criminal; when we torture prisoners, the guilty and the innocent, they will tell us anything they think we want to hear -- including implicate themselves falsely, as many reports from Human Rights Watch and other rights organizations testify to -- to make the torture stop; and the White House routinely uses that faked or coerced unverifiable "intelligence" to buttress its wholesale assault on our liberties.
As the CIA tries to spin its apparent crimes and claim that its waterboarding and other forms of criminal torture "saved lives" -- while conveniently offering no evidence to back that up, and while the administration withholds evidence to the contrary from the lawyers of the detainees -- we should bear in mind that the decades of research on torture summarized in the magisterial survey "The Question of Torture" show beyond the shadow of a doubt that prisoners being tortured will indeed "say anything." When American prisoners were tortured by the North Vietnamese, their confessions were phrased in Communist cliches.
We should note too -- as the White House tries to muddy the waters by pretending that there has ever been a "debate" about such acts as these -- that the US in the past prosecuted waterboarding itself: when the Japanese had waterboarded US prisoners they were convicted with sentences of fifteen years of hard labor.
We should also bear in mind that the Bush White House has deliberately crafted its memos and laws -- such as the Bybee/Gonzales "torture memo" and the Military Commissions Act of 2006 -- with a keen eye to seeking indemnification of its own guilt regarding having committed evident crimes, because those involved know quite well that acts committed could be criminal acts. (An historical note worth mentioning, when we consider how hyperalert the Bush White House has been to the issue of seeking retroactively to protect itself and its subordinates from prosecution for war and other crimes, is that the Nuremberg Trials eventually swept up influential Nazi industrialists such as Fritz Thyssen of IG Farben -- who relied on Auschwitz slave labor -- and with whom Prescott Bush had collaborated in amassing the Bush family millions; some of the sentences given to those industrialists found guilty in the postwar trials were severe.) For a moment postwar, the legal spotlight was also about to search out and hold accountable the several prominent US investors who had partnered with Nazi industrialists (see the exhaustively documented study of US/Nazi corporate collaboration, IBM and the Holocaust.)
Prosecution for war crimes and other criminal acts, which the administration so clearly recognizes that it may well have committed -- which its legislation so clearly shows it realized it may well commit in advance of the commission -- is the only consequence the Bush team seems to be really afraid of as it attempts its multiple subversions of the rule of law. This is why the nation's grassroots call for a truly independent investigation into possible criminality is so very urgent and so necessary to restore the rule of law in our nation.
Mr. Mukasey could look up his own department's files and understand that waterboarding is a war crime; not only that, the US Military prosecuted waterboarding as a war crime itself in 1902 -- it had been used against prisoners in the Phillipines -- and those Americans who had committed it received convictions from the military. It is hopeless to rely on the Justice Department.
An independent special prosecutor must be appointed. The people who are found guilty, in America, must face justice.
Let the investigations begin.




89 Comments so far
Show AllWhat is probably on the missing tapes is classified.
That's why you can't see them. It's also why you can't find them. It's secret. From you. From them. Even from the President. He can't be shown. He can only be told summaries in the DIB. Ask Dana Perino. She'll tell you.
War is hell; the rest is just lies and damned lies!
If you don't believe me, get an Iraq War vet drunk and listen in amazement. Abu G is small potatoes.
This week is Children's Week in Iraq! Hooray for Bush! Hooray for Cheney! Makes you feel all warm and cozy inside for the holidays, don't it?
Nevermind that every serious study of war suggests that women and children are almost always the hardest hit in wars.
What is missing on these tapes is the 'missing link' between humans and animals. Always said that the true horror of the Holocaust was that it was committed by people against other people, and that any country was capable of committing those atrocities. Never thought that the usa would be the nation that confirmed my opinion of those events. Yah, I know you're not burning the bodies, you're not transporting prisoners to the necropoli in order to be systematically 'eliminated'... Not yet anyway.
Isn't it astounding that is takes a writer - not a top tier journalist from the NYT etc - to ask the relevant question? Journalism is often misunderstood as 'reporting' but it's really about asking the right questions.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/20031214-3.html
Bush, December 14, 2003: "Yesterday, December the 13th, at around 8:30 p.m. Baghdad time, United States military forces captured Saddam Hussein alive...For the vast majority of Iraqi citizens who wish to live as free men and women, this event brings further assurance that the torture chambers and the secret police are gone forever."
I guess forever doesn't last as long as it used to.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060906-3.html
Bush, September 6, 2006: "I want to be absolutely clear with our people, and the world: The United States does not torture. It's against our laws, and it's against our values. I have not authorized it -- and I will not authorize it."
Richard Nixon, November 17, 1973: "...I am not a crook."
Thank you Naomi Wolf for a fine piece of reporting.
No doubt the fight for retroactive immunity is an ispo facto proof of guilt, but Congress is as guilty as the administration by refusing to investigate. The apple is rotten to the core.
I have come to the conclusion that the country is lost. After reading this piece, a passage from Rousseau's Social Contract came to mind: "As soon as men cease to consider public service as the principal duty of citizens, and rather choose to serve with their purse than with their persons, we may pronounce the State to be on the very verge of ruin. Are the citizens called upon to march out to war? They pay soldiers for the purpose and stay at home. Are they summoned to council? They nominate deputies, and stay at home. And thus, in consequence of their idleness and money, they have soldiers to enslave their country and representatives to sell it."
Pelosi and several other Democratic leaders have known for a long time about these illegal activities and have chosen to say nothing. They have abdicated their duties of executive oversight. Congress will not save us. Congress is a large part of the problem, and unless it is replaced with citizens who truly want to serve the interests of the people, then we should have every expectation that it will continue to serve the corporate interests that have stolen our democracy.
REVOLT.....ing!
B/C are sending the kids more death and disease for 'Children's Week'.
All the shareholders of the companies that make war stuff and all the "representatives" of the People that don't stand up and call for immediately cleaning out the corruption in the Congress and the Whitehouse are equally responsible and guilty of the same crimes.
Bush is in the tapes, ___ laughing.
I'm afraid we might also learn a little more about 9/11 than Bush and the CIA want us to. And if you think I'm a conspiracy theorist, then why did Bush fight the formation of the 9/11 commission for over 400 days? And when it was finally formed why did the try to stack with his own people including Henry Kissenger whose client list includes the Bin Laden family? And why did the commission omit that Mohammed Atta was wired 100k by the head of the ISI and, worse, the commission's final word on who funded the 9/11 attacks was essentially--'we don't know' (yes we do, the mainstream news reported it, in pieces) and 'it's of no importance' (great investigation. Good luck getting a job as sherrif of shitsville.).
Trust is a brittle thing.
What American citizen can ever trust any part of our government again? Or either 'party'...
The hypocrisy is beyond reason and moral explanation. I have a scenario. Suppose some terrorists kidnapped the twins and threatened to torture them with waterboarding unless bush confessed that he was complicit in authorizing torture against ALL ethical and humane considerations Worldwide. Do you think HE would confess?
"If you don't believe me, get an Iraq War vet drunk and listen in amazement. Abu G is small potatoes." You don't need to get them drunk - war so brutalises that they will post photographic and video records of their atrocities to the internet in order to boast of their macho deeds. It really is time we stopped idolising the warrior and his cult of death.
If I had two daughters I could name them both "Naomi".
Good posts too.
Naomi: Thanks AGAIN for putting some of the pieces together for us. It's so hard to connect the dots when info comes out in bits and pieces over such a long period of time.
Who is in charge of the FBI these days? Is the FBI still refusing to participate in torture? Who has oversite of the FBI?
A special prosecuter to investigate torture would be a good thing. But that process is extremely slow. Just look at the Scooter Libby mess. The only real avenue for true disclosure and stopping of the abuse is impeachment. And it has to start with Dick Cheney. And if government officials can be impeached after they have left government, then it would be a good idea to impeach Rumsfeld and Gonzales too.
Let the trials begin! Let the light of truth shine! I want my country back. Restore the Constitution and the Rule of Law. And squash the damn corpratists under the heel of the peoples' humanitarian rights!
I'd like to echo the above comment about 9/11. The 9/11 Commission Report based much of their narrative on transcripts from the interrogations whose tapes were destroyed. In the coming years the American people may or may not realize that the term conspiracy theory is just a pejorative excuse not to examine the overwhelming evidence that 9/11 was a self inflicted attack. It's an excuse not to think objectively. So be better than that; go online, buy David Ray Griffin's Debunking 9/11 Debunking, and then join the ongoing fight to take this county back.
I'm a totally sober Vietnam Vet OLDBADGERTOO, and two tours in SE Asia. I heard 'stories' about torture, never saw such, or knew any others who ever did. I did see a lot of help and compassion by our troops for South Vietnamese citizens.
I am well aware of many horrible things that happened in Vietnam, including the insane use of Agent Orange, testing DU ammo and Leutenant Calle, etc. We also had no business being in Vietnam in the first place. Torture may have occured, if so, there is a big difference between then and now.
If torture of any other human was conducted by our military or the CIA agents, it was not openly approved by our president, or our Attorney General that I am aware of. It is now, along with many other serious crimes.
During the Vietnam War, we had press coverage everyplace, there were young reporters sitting in fox holes on the front lines, and sat wide eyed next to us in bunkers during rocket attacks.
If torture was practiced, none of them ever reported it that I am aware of, and they didn't approve of that war at all. If things were not right, they reported it and that included the reporters for the Army and Air Force Times. There are always rumors of course, people love to talk, ___ especially if they aren't sober.
Who gives a flying fuck anymore? It's long past time to ABOLISH the CIA instead of worry about the GOD DAMN MOTHERFUCKING tapes like a bunch of LOSERS !
I had a close friend who came out of Viet Nam badly shaken. He was a special forces soldier in the Army assigned to intelligence gathering. One day when they took three peasant farmers up, as they often had, in a helicopter and began throwing them out one by one so the remaining men would answer questions, Willy realized when he looked into the peasant farmer's eyes that he really didn't know anything about anything they were talking about and that he had been throwing innocent people out of helicopters to their deaths and the lies of the U.S. Government all came crashing down around him at once, and Willy snapped.
We met him about two weeks later after he was got off a flight at the Kalamazoo airport with his Army duffle bag, the clothes on his back, and a 45 caliber service revolver. He had that wild, shifting look in his eyes that was all too familiar in those days. A loud slam of the door was enough to get him to jump up and wave his '45 around the living room. We had an anti war 24 hour vigil going in front of the Federal Court House in Kalamazoo, and Willy had wandered up and my friends brought him home and we gave him a place to live. So much for the lies about people showing disrespect for returning soldiers. We were the only ones who cared and helped people like Willy after he was no longer useful to the U.S. Government and they turned their backs on them and dropped them off to live on the street.
He eventually recovered and ended up marrying a very nice girl and setting up a successful woodworking business.
But torture and mass murder, without question, was committed by U.S. forces in Viet Nam.
PS ... the Dems just want any headline possible to avoid people noticing they are approving lots more money for more death, destruction, torture, etc to continue in Iraq with their blessings.
"missing" is the wrong word. That implies we'll find them again. "Destroyed" would be the more accurate word.
In fact, in general this headline underplays the whole thing. What it should say is something like "What is in the illegally destroyed evidence?"
I generally like the author and the article. But why do people on the left constantly pull their punches? Why don't we make it very clear even from just the headline that key evidence that could lead to charges has been illegally destroyed and probably can't be recovered?
How are you going to abolish the CIA? By posting rants on CD?
The only way it can happen in the US is through politics. We'd need a majority in Congress and a President who believe in this. Can we do that, sure? Anything is possible. But the Democrats certainly won't do this. The CIA was started by a Dem President and no Dem Congress has ever even hinted at this. Usually a Dem Conngress won't even think of touching its budgets.
So, ok ... we can scream 'let's abolish the CIA.' But unless you are doing that just to make yourself feel better, how are you going to do it?
I'd suggest finding your local Green Party and helping them all you can. That's where you'd find candidates that would actually do this.
A question no body seems interested in: why is the CIA videotaping hundred of hours of themselves torturing others? Is this SOP? Are there videotapes of other CIA torture crimes? Colombia maybe? Illegal Gulf Massacre I? What are the videotapes used for? Technique refinement? Training?
And are we supposed to believe the CIA still uses videotape? Seriously?
Kem Patrick ... have you never heard of the Phoenix Program? Or maybe it was "operation phoenix".
Something like 40,000 people were MURDERED in that program. With the full approval of the CIA, the Congress, the US Gov and including the Presidents.
Murder is certainly torture. Or maybe its a step even beyond torture. And its completely beyond belief that we'd kill that many people, but we wouldn't rough them up or torture them for information first.
What was the series that the Toledo paper did a few years ago about torture and killings in Vietnam?
And Sen Kerry's (not John, the one from Neb) own statements that essentially say he committed war crimes in Vietnam.
Then of course there's Mai Lai. And the general statements one hears that almost every unit had its own Mai Lai. That's just the one that made it to a IG out of the chain of command and got some attention. Remember that Colin Powell was on the division staff of that unit and was working to cover up the incident before someone reported it to an IG outside his control.
So, we are supposed to believe that there's all this murder going on, but our troops were far to responsible to rough up someone?
Or, maybe we are just talking the usual cya semantics here. The type of crap that says the CIA doesn't torture. No, they just stood their in the room while the Vietnamese whom they had trained to torture did the actual torture. Therefore, the CIA doesn't torture.
Note carefully what you don't see the Dems in Congress doing.
If you know evidence is being destroyed, the first thing to do is to act to protect any remaining evidence. What you don't see the Dems doing is passing immediate writs demanding that any remaining evidence be turned over to the Congress immediately to safeguard it for future investigations.
Nope, the Dems are just playing their usual political theater of trying to score some cheap headlines without doing anything really serious.
COMARC, I suppose you are saying that what I posted about my visual and verbal experiences in Vietnam was not correct. Thank you for sharing your assumptins and opinions with me.
I did mention that many horrible things occurred In Vietnam and did mention Lt. Calley, the scorge of the Mai Lai massacure. It is TORTURE this article was written about and my comments addressed that issue and the fact that rumors about Vietnam abound. True or not, our Presidents did not openly approve of torture, to my knowledge, durng that war.
If you know of any other time in our recent American history, that compares with the present administrations concerning TORTURE, please let me know. We are refering to water boarding and our last and current Attorney Generals and our President, have publically approved of it. That was my point. What happened in Vietnam has little to do with what is occuring today. It is similar to one saying, (we did it before, so what's new?)
HEAVYRUNNER, 'perhaps' that man's story was true, I have heard that same story numerous times, told in barracks bull sessions by others. I am certain people were abused and tortured, raped and murdered in Vietnam. I NEVER heard our Presidents, our Attorney Generals, or any members of Congress Okay it. Not until Bush took office. That is and was my point.
If torture of another human does take place, anyplace, by any American, it must be brought to court. If not, we do not deserve to survive as a nation. If not, we Americans are ALL guilty in the eyes of all of the people in this world, and lose any credibility we have as a world leader.
It is ironic, a NFL quarterback has been found guilty of torturing pit bulls and he has been sentenced to two years in prison, and we are not bringng our leaders to trial for the same crime against human beings.
I did not ask to be born a citizen of this vile, contemptable nation-state - a true enemy of all humanity.
You are one of us PJD, if we live in a shit house, __ we smell like shit.
There must be war crimes trials at some point in the future. Let's not forget these abuses.
John Dean wrote that Cheney has started destroying documents.
In der bunker tings are going bad.
-theme music-
The following is a dramatization.
Agent: "Mr. President, there's been an attack on the United States. Nobody knows anything about it, except that somehow we know it's safe for our commander to continue sitting in a public area."
Agent: "Mr. President, there's been another attack. Both were from airplanes. It's time for you to get into an airplane and fly somewhere without air escort. Somehow we know that's safe."
Everybody has their favorite 9/11 anomaly.
Yo COMarc,
At least I woke up your brain by actually being brave enough to call for an ABOLITION OF THE CIA unlike LOSERS who still keep hoping that gubmint will take care of their ASSES even as they're being SOLD OUT. Give me one fucking reason the CIA deserves to be kept.
Whatever happened to the secret Eastern European prisons? Outta sight, outta mind?
Too bad most of the Dems are onboard with this. It'll take a concerted effort of lawyers, human rights groups, international peace activists and observers, scientists, scholars, and ordinary citizens to apply legal pressure on our own government, to get them back into the same realm of laws that we must abide by.
I've oft-wondered about the essential hypocrisy we teach our children: telling them not to solve disputes by hitting one another. And then we've got the president of US condoning pre-emptive wars and torture.
Since the tortured are presumably still alive, why doesnt congress subpeana them to testify as to what happened? What about "witness protection programs"?
Then we can waterboard chimpy and the dick to find out who outed Valerie Plame.
News Flash: Murkasey responded to both the Senate and the Congress. He will NOT give them any information about the torture tapes. Further, there WILL NOT be an independent prosecutor.
So what now my friends?
re: torture in Vietnam. The Phoenix Program did torture and then murder what is estimated at 40,000 people. I know a man who knows Stockdale and he was told that they outsourced a lot of the torture. They hired Vietnamese police to do it.
Sound familar? The death squads in Iraq that started in 2004? Men dressed like police coming and kidnapping men who are later found killed execution style? And we are told that wandered into a civil war that no one noticed before. That Shiites and Sunnis have hated and killed each other for years. Ignore the Iraqis who deny this and claim that they have both Shiites and Sunnis in their tribes.
Rather like the AIDS virus that supposedly came from Africa, but no one noticed until it appeared in San Francisco, New York and Haiti. Now, of course, it's killing 1/2 the population in Africa. But after it appeared in New York, San Francisco and Haiti, it next appeared in Africa and Brazil. Strange pattern for a virus to follow.
Do I think that a part of the US government is capable of blowing up its own buildings and blaming it on "terrorist"? Absolutely. It's called the strategy of tension, and the CIA invented it in Europe post WW11.
NAILED IT!!
THANKS PETERHOLMES
peterholmes December 14th, 2007 3:12 pm
I'd like to echo the above comment about 9/11. The 9/11 Commission Report based much of their narrative on transcripts from the interrogations whose tapes were destroyed. In the coming years the American people may or may not realize that the term conspiracy theory is just a pejorative excuse not to examine the overwhelming evidence that 9/11 was a self inflicted attack. It's an excuse not to think objectively. So be better than that; go online, buy David Ray Griffin's Debunking 9/11 Debunking, and then join the ongoing fight to take this county back.
NAOMI WOLF IS MY HERO...HEROINE!!!
WHAT A FREAKIN' STREET SMART SEXY BALLSY BROAD!
IT'S HIGH TIME FOR THE WOMEN TO RULE THE WORLD!
KEEP SPEAKING OUT & EXPOSING YOUR BRAINS NAOMI...
Hi REBEL. So what now? We will see nothing of any significance happen. Now if you keep up your on the target drumbeat of impeaching the criminals and enough march to your perfect beat, we may see some action.
Notice the trailer: "Naomi Wolf is an author whose books include The Beauty Myth"
I mean, her latest book is "The End of America" Even the blogs are being controlled, sigh.
And this:
"An independent special prosecutor must be appointed. The people who are found guilty, in America, must face justice.
Let the investigations begin."
Thats the only way you get Huff Post to print anything. You have to pretend we actually have a Democracy. Investigation? Justice? Give me a break.
I am not attacking Naomi, she is a hero. If she was free to write something
that could get printed by a MSM like blog she might conclude her article with something like this (just better written).
"But do not expect any investigation or justice my critters, because this is The End of America (hint: its my latest book). The additional evidence for those who still need it show that we are no longer a true democracy which respects inalienable rights, but instead are a hybrid of Stalin and Mussolini's form of government, but with more money and weapons, allowing us to expand our Empire on the road to a One World Global Government governed by the elite. "
I might try to post this comment on HuffPost but I know it won't get past the moderators.
A Rockefeller (Jay) being on the Intelligence Committee says it all about our Democratic Congress (remember when the Rockefellers were Republicans). David Rockefeller is the Global Czar that may be responsible for the War on Terror and Iraq. Perhaps if the Rothchilds regain power this GWOT will be replaced by a War on Pollution, but we still won't get back our Democracy.
There is another player here that has gained influence that may be more responsible for the real nasty stuff and being so obvious about it. The Rockefellers have been around for over 100 years and took power in 1930 after the depression, and the last 7 years is a bit of a deviation from their preferred MO of maintaining our nice guy image while we were doing nasty things. But you can figure who that is for yourself.
Greenerthanthou; Very good points. Look how quickly the Patriot Act was alledgedly written after 9/11. And the rapid fall of the twin towers, and no real coverage of the Pentagon plane crash, and on and on. But that's for the conspiracy theorists, right? The death squads you mentioned in Iraq came shortly after Negroponte was sent over, so I heard. Hmmm...he played a role in the death squads in Central America during the Reagan Administration.
The Aids virus theory had some serious investigators trying to establish the origin of it, and some think it may have originated in the labs at Fort Detrick, Maryland. I don't know?
And for your last paragraph, they saw how sucessful the 'Reichstag Fire' turned out to be for criminals in high places. That's old hash. How about white men dressing up like Indians and commiting crimes then plaming the natives? It goes on and on.
Rebel Farmer; If that's true about Murkasey, and I'm not doubting you, then the plan worked. Remember the phoney conformation hearings with the three key members of the Senate: Specter, Feinstein, and Shumer supposedly confronting him about water boarding as torture, and he wouln't commit himself? That wet their whistles and the trio of hypocrites gave him thumbs up.
So what are we to do now, you ask? Perhaps the most difficult question to answer so far.
With a year left in office, and Democratic compliance and subserviance to Bush, and in spite of the 'investigations' Waxman and a few others are conducting, impeacment will still be in our imaginations after Bush is out of office. The "we didn't have the votes" crowd will still be echoing that familiar tune. Prices for everything will increase, services will be reduced, they'll be more fees for this that and the other thing, and our fellow citizens will be content with the status quo as long as they can purchase gasoline and have a tv set to watch "the games", 'Faux News', and other entertainment.
I truly appreciate your concern, REB, as well as other bloggers and all activists in all the various approaches to our national dilema. Still a small minority of folks. Unless the majority of the people want to change the system it won't happen.
When somebody figures out the way, let me know, because I'm just as frustrated as the rest of you.
COMatc wonders:
If you know evidence is being destroyed, the first thing to do is to act to protect any remaining evidence. What you don't see the Dems doing is passing immediate writs demanding that any remaining evidence be turned over to the Congress immediately to safeguard it for future investigations.
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My own take on this is that (like the FBI for instance)the CIA and the rest of the security state establishment probably has hours and hours of tapes of our illustrious leaders caught in flagrante delicto (Latin legal term meaning "caught in the very act") of all manner of sexual, drug, and perhaps even criminal escapades.
Then they offer them tihs deal--play ball with us and this embarassing evidence need never see the light of day and we'll pay you handsomely for your services rendered. Get feisty or (God forbid!) ethical and we will destroy you and all your loved ones. Ask the Kennedy and King families about how this system works.
The US seems to have refined and perfected a system of candidate recruitment for high office that assures that either the morally loose, criminally bent, chemically compromised, or just plain nutsy types are the ones who keep getting reelected year in and year out. It makes approval of funding requests and lax oversight so very much easier burdens for our handlers to bear.
Poet; You are on to something! I just remembered something after reading your post. Earlier this year, on a radio station, it might have been KPFA 94.1 FM out of Berkely, Ca. that our illustrious government has really been spying on so many people of importance , especially in bars, nightclubs, sex parties, drug stuff, and things of this nature. And if they do try to change the system for the better...
May be another conspiracy "theory" again. Certainly plausible.
It's so appallingly simple. If you want to do something patently illegal, just have a lawyer draw up a statement that says it is now called something else.
Why be a rapist when you can be a sexual assertiveness practitioner?
Some have mentioned the Aids virus and it may have been developed here. Hmmmm.
I read on the CNN news yesterday, about gettng our flu shots this year. One reason it gave for the importance of getting one is, the nasty and very deadly form of bird flu can now be passed from human to human.
Then it stated, of course this is only possible in the lab, where the virus it safely maintained in medical cultures. Whooops, why develop it so it can be passed from human to human? The article stated IF it gets loose, the pandemic wilL make the flu epidemic of 1918 seem like a mild outbreak. What happensd to those 'safe' Africanized bees? __Bzzzzzzzzzz. __ Cluck-cluck.
That article was not written by a government agency, it was a reporter who garnered some interesting info.
I think that the American public needs a good water boarding. Their greed and stupidity has created the whole atmosphere of totalitarian behavior in America. As long as they can over consume energy, food, and the environment, they prefer to remain ignorant of the world they inhabit. There will be nothing that happens to anybody for the torture or the cover up. I hate to see the false hope that is out there these days. These pundits make money hand over fist as they tease us with hope. That is mental cruelty.
maxpayne -
The last time a president, JFK, started talking about reeling in the CIA, he was killed.
and KEM PATRICK -
I think he was in the tapes, not laughing, but getting stimulated. I think he has a torture fetish.
The issue is not whether these and many other incidents happened and may still be happening. This is obvious and has been for years. The only issue now is when the depraved degenerates in the administration will be brought to justice, tried, and, if found guilty, meted out the sentences appropriate to their crime.
"Stalinesque"
Good Girl, Naomi!
Trashism not Fascism; hate not greed.