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NYT's Gail Collins and the '2nd Tier' Presidential Candidates
Gail Collins, the columnist for the New York Times, has a problem. While regularly writing in a satirical or sometimes trivial way about the foibles of the two major Parties' front-running presidential candidates, she can scarcely hide her disdain for the small starters, the underdogs.
In a recent column about what she saw as the repetitiveness and small-mindedness of Hillary Clinton (and her spokesman), Barack Obama and John Edwards, she took this unexplained swipe at former Senator Mike Gravel's presence in a debate sponsored by National Public Radio:
"What the heck is Mike Gravel doing back on stage? Didn't we get rid of him 10 or 20 debates ago?"
This dismissal may be seen by some readers as a laugh or as an impulsive throwaway line. Not so with Ms. Collins. She has little tolerance for filling media debate chairs with candidates; pundits like her believe candidates who are not front runners do not have a chance to overcome their super-low polls.
Nor does she lose any sleep over NBC (a subsidiary of General Electric) keeping the anti-nuclear Mr. Gravel out of its hosted debate in Philadelphia last month because he had not yet raised a million dollars.
Ms. Collins' treatment of the "second tier" candidates in the Democratic Party, such as Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich, is remarkable for at least three reasons.
First, although she is a more sand-papered progressive than in her more radical, younger days as a small starter reporting for the Connecticut State News Bureau, I'll bet she agrees with much of the two-time Senator Gravel's record in Congress and his present positions on the war in Iraq, Presidential accountability, corporate power and crime and the mistreatment of workers, consumers and uninsured patients.
Second, for several years ending a few months ago, she presided over the New York Times editorial page, producing some of the finest editorials in the paper's history. Many well considered subjects were included such as: standing up for whistle-blowers, dissenters, the rights of small business and workers and especially, the civil liberties and rights of minority voters afflicted with myriad electoral abuses and obstructions.
Thirdly, she has written a book about the history of women's rights in America-titled America's Women (William Morrow, 2003), which must have touched in a sensitive way those lonely self-starters, known as suffragettes, along with those very small parties and even smaller candidates pressing for the female voting franchise. She knows there are many ways to win short of winning an election.
In recent weeks, her paper's editorial page has delivered brilliant excoriations of the similarities in the converging the Republican and Democratic Parties, taking the latter severely to task on important national issues.
I doubt very much that Gail Collins disagrees with these editorials. In fact, privately she is known to be even more critical of the political status quo in this country. One might surmise that she should therefore welcome more voices and choices to come before the citizenry during election times, including more third party and independent candidates as well.
After all, aren't we all glad that ballot access was so easy in the nineteenth century, compared to today, that small parties like the anti-slavery, women's rights, labor and farmer-populist parties got onto the ballots and pioneered hugely important agendas, ignored by the Democratic, Whig and Republican Parties? These small starters never came close to winning the Presidency, except for the populist parties, winning many Congressional elections.
Put Gail Collins back into the 19th century and she would be whooping it up for those valiant few voters and little candidates who voted and ran against the grain of the business-indentured, often bigoted major Parties. Here in the twenty-first century, Gail Collins writes the predicates of progressive values and then sprawls to the dead-end conclusions-stay with the least-worst major Party candidates.
Just as small seeds need a chance to sprout to regenerate nature and sustain humankind, just as the tiniest of businesses need to have a chance to innovate in the business world, so too, small candidates need to have the chance. For they can often enrich the political dialogue, move the big boys to overdue recognitions, even if they do not have a chance to win on election day in a rigged, monetized, winner-take all system, bereft of both instant run-off voting and proportional representation procedures.
Columnists such as Gail Collins and her humane colleague, Bob Herbert, abhor going into these fields of political fertility. Instead, their rendition of political and corporate abuses flows into the repetitive, narrow ruts of political servility-not just the two party duopoly ruts but its major candidate groovers.
So progressive columnists, such as there are, wring their hands over why the Democratic Party, its incumbents and its major candidates do not heed their findings, their pleas, their hopes for the American people. They keep on wringing their hands until they encase their minds in a cul-de-sac that categorically disallows even a contemplation that political alternatives in person and party should be given visibility.
Open your mind a little, Gail Collins, and you might learn something about the need for frameworks that enable the sovereignty of the people to be expressed in a variety of practical ways, including national initiatives. You may laugh at Mike Gravel having difficulty explaining his studious proposal for a national initiative during sound-bite debates. Instead, try writing a column on why some noted constitutional law professors believe there is a sound constitutional basis for such a proposal.
This would be a good way to spark a serious debate about the myth of government of the people, by the people and for the people. Such an excursus would help deepen a very shallow Presidential campaign and be more becoming to you than wanting to rid Mike Gravel from the so-called debates. And you and the members of your profession, who regularly confess boredom with the major candidates, might actually find some excitement in your daily work.
Ralph Nader is a consumer advocate, lawyer, and author. His most recent book is The Seventeen Traditions.
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106 Comments so far
Show AllIt never ends, does it?
starofthesea has made a very good comparison between the Nader haters and the Gail Collins-type "journalists".
As for the other Dem candidates boycotting the debate until everyone is included---HAH!!! This is exactly what Clinton and Edwards were plotting when they were caught on that open mike earlier in the campaign. They welcome the exclusion of Gravel and Kucinich.
If your media trivializes lesser voices, boycott them. If your party trivializes lesser voices, boycott them. They don't have any power unless we give it to them. The first thing we need to do to empower ourselves is to vote for our principles in the primaries.
Who cares about what kind of new puppet we get for our votes.
Follow The Money!!! that is where our rights went... down the money hole.
same old faces, rockerfellers, mellons, rothshilds, you know BANKING ELITES.
These are the enemy of the people, these are the ones who call the shots in a fascist state, Hitler was a fall guy for industrialists (grampa Bush) George is a fall guy, he always was. A disposable shill for the corporatized military, oil, banks, media and organized crime. Yes not unlike the former USSR, our government is mainly a mafia, a waspy, soft bellied mafia. Strike them NOW.
Well, let's see how peaceful and democratic the Naderhaters are today.
Ms. Collins needs this wake-up call, as do her colleagues. The really fertile thought and ferment for real change lies in the programs and platforms of the so-called "second tier" candidates of both parties. They are in that situation because the corporate masters realize the threat posed to them by these candidates, and do all they can to shut off any flow of funds to these people to deny them (and us) a real voice in the debate on the future of this nation that so critically needs to happen.
From IRON HEEL by Jack London: "You have forgotten the editors. They draw their salaries for the policy they maintain. Their policy is to print nothing that is a vital menace to the established. The press of the United States? It is a parasitic growth that battens on the capitalist class. Its function is to serve the established by moulding public opinion, and right well it serves it."
Hoa binh
just when you thought it was safe to read the times! damn.
maybe Chomsky has a point when he states that working for a corporation changes you at the molecular level.
Don't worry Ralph. Unless the oligarchy figures out how to fully control the internet, most print media are on their way out, soon to be followed by TV and the rest of the MSM. We can read you, Chomsky, Zinn, watch you on YouTube and we can get our news from many sources online for free so why subscribe?
Just as the peace activists like Code Pink scratch their heads in confusion over the Democratic leadership in Congress voting down the line w/ Bush and his cronies it doesn't surprise me that so many "liberal" journalists, authors, writers are confused as well. Neither progressives, liberals nor Democratic voters want to take off their rose-colored glasses! The truth is ugly...we are being lied to. Once you get over the initial shock (as I did in 2001 after the coronation of GWB) you can begin to change your community, the country and inevitably the world.
We are all in it together!
peace,
Mindy
Bye the way..... check out "An Unreasonable Man" on PBS stations this month!!! Open your mind and see why Nader is so demonized now.
Hey Gail Collins, what do the five fingers say to the face?
SLAP!!!
Well done, Mr. Nader.
Though Mike Gravel has not been in the Oct. 30th or Nov. 15th debates, nor will he be in today's Des Moines Register debates, he is still holding his fellow Democrats accountable, and speaking as much truth to power as ever.
After his alternate debate Nov. 15th in Las Vegas, Senator Gravel was invited to the Jefferson Jackson dinner, alongside the 7 other candidates. Below is his "open letter" of sorts to the party:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nGVcjvuw6mo
looking in from the outside, it is incredible the extent to which the USA has allowed the corporate media to define the terms of the elections.
The corporate media only wans the public to see and hear the corporate candidates.
What bothers me most about the exclusion of Mike Gravel and DENNIS KUCINICH from today's Des Moines register debate (I spit upon their lousy paper this morning - literally) aside from the act itself is the fact that any of the front runners would allow it.
Here is a party that presumably stands for the working man and labor and instead of standing together in solidarity and refusing to take part in a debate that does not include all the candidates, they move right ahead as if there is no issue here.
This is precisely the attitude that has reduced labor union members to mere cannon fodder for the corporate elite management that is only too happy to use them, abuse them, lie to them and then throw them to the dogs whenever it suits their profit purposes.
The fact that members of our society no longer stand up for union members and even other union members do not voluntarily stand with their comrades in the event of a strike is what has precipitated the demise of the middle class and the ever increasing wealth gap in this country.
While the writers union remains on strike, how come all the other unions that represent studio, transportation, actors and all other facets of the entertainment industry are not out on strike as well.
If any Democratic candidate was serious about supporting labor, they would surely stand down from today's debate in protest. Sadly, the answer is the Democrats have long since given up on actively supporting labor. It's time labor witholds their support for Democrats and moves on to help establish and support a third (or second) political party in this country.
Because of WTO and the rest of the trade pacts Labor has been trivialized to the point that it's leaders are afraid to go on record for a third party candidate. My guess is that they want to back "the winner" and that is the "front runner" so that they are not seen as a spoiler and pay the price-more trivialization and less of a voice in the political arena.
I also agree generally with most of Mike Gravel's positions, but am not too unhappy to see him excluded, because he is more of an embarrassment than an effective spokesman for progressive ideas. With his Howard Beale-like rants, he has become a national joke. He hasn't held office in many years, and has little or no support anywhere.
The last point is the objective justification for excluding him, unlike Kucinich who has much stronger support than Dodd or Biden, and who is also a credible spokesman for the Left (though he shouldn't have fallen through Russert's UFO trap door).
I wrote to the DMR and in the strongest terms expressed my disgust at their exclusion of Kucinich. That's not much, but the rest of you should do so, too.
And yes, Ralph Nader still has blood on his hands. More than he can ever wash off.
If Nader "has blood on his hands," Nader2000 has ignorance on his brain that he can never be rid of. It was obvious some Nader hater would weigh in with that tired tune. Nader said some time back that if Hillary gets the nomination he'll run again as independent. This will give the Nader2000's another decade or so of Nader bashing. An inability to think beyond the end of their own hysteria will fuel their absurd commentary as it runs around in circles chasing its tail, shouting "it's all Nader's fault!"
As a former reporter at a big daily paper, I think Collins is probably pandering to some implied yet completely explicit editorial decree.
At big papers today, as far as my experience goes, a progressive working as a reporter lives secretly fearing ridicule or being ostracized for their opinions.
Where I worked, there was an unspoken gag rule against expressing views that were independent minded, or suspicious of the point of view established by big media or the official line, or critical of the police. You didn't exactly know what would happen to you if you came out with it bluntly, however something would, because everyone fell into line. It was like something out of The Captive Mind, almost.
I quit that paper eventually in part because of the useless articles we (including me) were continually publishing about the Iraq war and "insurgents". Did I have a say in this? Not at all. My stories, when I tried dealing in reality-- were merely butchered into generic feel good, or scare em good pieces abouts American heroics and/or terrorists, by one of the editors.
As far as the Times is concerned, there is also Krugman, whose editorials I previously could stomach relatively well. But lately he has been tooting his horn about the major Democratic candidates' insurance based healthcare plans. He has hardly ever mentioned the Kucinich/Conyers bill or Kucinich at all for that matter. Has he?
I see an interesting parallel between Nadar blamers and the Gail Collins of the world---they get stuck in a groove of their faulty thinking and are missing the forest for the trees. Nader has never once in his public life been anything but a passionate, articulate voice of the people, by the people and for the people. He walks the walk, and talks the talk. All the same, self-proclaimed progressives resent his "intrusion" into the political arena, even as they complain that no one in the two party duopoly represents their values. If you accept their premise, Kucinich shouldn't be running because he takes votes away from the annointed candidiates. How do you expect change to take place if no one stands up to represent real change? Does any Dem apologist actually believe that Kucinich or Nader will be asked to the White House for their advice, if Clinton or Obama or Edwards are elected? And do you actually think that any of those three would openly embrace your views or your values??? Wake up! And start supporting and defending those who DO! You are no better than the worst of the Rethugs pointing fingers and blaming anyone, EVERYONE but themselves for the sorry state of things!
She doesn't want to find excitement in her work. She's somebody now, and celebrity crowds out principle in people like her. She wants to take it easy, not work too hard. Three candidates are easier to cover than eight.
Any third candidate who is progressive will take votes away from corporate Democracts, and rightfully so.
auspiciousbunny, starofthesea and Ephraim, excellent observations!
I think Ralph Nader should be honored as Man of the Century for his tireless work for our interests. He has stood up for us when others have cowered or yielded to craven interests. Most of the heroes in history were vilified in their time and I want him to know I honor him above anyone else living today. He has always seen what is wrong and what is needed to make it right and has the inner strength to persist in the face of personal attacks and attempts to blame him for the mess this country has become - which he predicted long before anyone else was paying attention. He has not singlehandedly created our problems, but he has always seen them coming. It is only those who will not accept personal responsibility for their part who keep trying to blame him.
I'm with Nader2000. Screw Ralph! Or, to paraphrase Gail Collins, the subject of this article (entitled "Let's Pie Ralph Nader Some More..." oops! I mean, "NYT's Gail Collins and the '2nd Tier' Presidential Candidates"):
"What the heck is (Ralph Nader) doing back on stage? Didn't we get rid of him (6 years) ago?"
I'm assuming that the "blood on his hands" statement applies to the theory that Nader's run in 2000 enabled the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn the vote recount in Florida, thus propelling Bush into the White House, hence the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
I totally agree. Just as smoothly as a game of Mousetrap, Nader enabled a Bush presidency, and forever erased the memory of Slick Willie and his sidekick Madeline's embargo on Iraq. Bush, you dumbass! Don't go to war against Iraq, just put sanctions on them! Sure, that'll cost... let's see, was it 500,000 Iraqi lives, mostly children? Yeah. But it's sanctions, dammit! Unlike war, there'll be NO BLOOD on your hands. And "we think the price is worth it."
So damn you forever, Ralph Nader! Your big ol' ego has ruptured the hull of a once-infallible U.S. democracy, and affected the decision-making of former Supreme Court justice Sandra Day O'Connor (all she wanted to do was retire, you big thug). Why don't you move to a country that actually WANTS a government that is representative "of the people, by the people, and for the people?"
BeForKids, I wholeheartedly agree. Nader is one of the clearest examples of someone who actually has worked hard to address the real causes of problems. He has demonstrated what I consider an extremely reasonable, sane approach to problem solving. He doesn't create some fantasy world of words. He has over the years tirelessly addressed problems using the appropriate means in a democracy to do so. We should be very glad he exists at all in this country today.
But nevermind the Nader bashers. They get tiresome. They generally can't control their own emotions long enough to think about anything too deeply.
Barn Burner you're at least partially right. But the point of this that goes beyond WTO and the corruption of the unions themselves by management apologists and timid negotiators is that unions have been marginalized by the lack of solidarity among this country's citizens.
Most people don't understand that the benefits they have and are losing today were won by the blood, sweat and tears of workers generations ago. When I was young crossing a picket line in my town would'nt even have been thought of regardless of how much I may have wanted that bottle of milk.
Now no one seems to realize that to acheive success for workers, maintain the middle class and allow opportunities for the poor, we must all recognize the ties that bind our own individual success with the success of others. This is what is broken in our society and what will be necessary to heal if we are to withstand the collapse of the empire and build stonger communities.
Union members themselves have fallen prey to the divide and conquer tactics being used against them in labor negotiations. Management negotiators constantly move to drive wedges between retirees, current workers and new hires into three camps. Republicans and Democrats alike drive wedges between the classes and at the low end of the scale the lower wage class is always being played against undocumented immigrant populations in an attempt to push apart those with essentially common goals and common conditions to make sure that a common purpose does not coalesce into a movement that threatens the status quo, the ruling elite, or the corporate agenda.
Unless we all learn a little courage like that shown by those supporting the labor movements years ago, and stop acting only in our own self-interest, the economic gap in this country will continue to grow until outright revolution becomes the only solution.
Courage by a Democrat? What am I thinking?
How did I start on this again?
Oh yeah Kucinich/Nader 2008 - Independent ticket - Screw the DEMS
Love those Nader haters -I'm Polish, but even the Polack who broke his leg falling off the ball washer wasn't that d**b!
(Intellectually challenged)
The powers that be will pick their man and tell him he will win if Jeb Bush is his running mate. Too far fetched? Don't be too sure.
I don't think there's any point in responding to people like Daniel David or Nader2000, they're just shills for corporate whores. And the union activists didn't just give up blood sweat and tears for us, in many cases they gave up their lives. Because of them we have weekends and minimum wages. We've lost the benefits and in many cases the overtime they died for (temporary workers, anyone). And the Democrats just get out of the way and let it happen.
And those lying Democrats keep on making empty promises to the stupid voters while they keep their promises to the corporations that have bought them. What amazes me is how often these voters keep coming back to be tricked again. Anne Wilson Schaef wrote "When Society Becomes an Addict" which explains why the public has allowed itself to become triangulated by the Republicans and Democrats into voting for the "lesser of two evils", keeping us on the path of corporate hegemony. It's the same codependent behavior that keeps an enabler buying alcohol for their drunken spouse. In a personal relationship one can get out. What do we do on a national level? I know some have left this country and they're glad they did. There's a lot of people trapped due to lack of resources, and convinced that they are powerless to create change. Those who have stolen our money and natural resources (and everyone else's) aren't going to give it up. Blackwater, anyone?
The NYT has something in common with all the other vaunted US institutions whatever their category, private or public: it's broken. It doesn't work. And it deals with nothing but useless fluff.
When you read a news item, it's too late. What's happened has happened. And so much happens every minute that no one can keep up with it, let alone DO anything about it.
Start with yourself. Improve your ability to think critically, to look deep within. Create peace within yourself and enhance your knowledge of life and how to live it in health and happiness, doing good for yourself and the world.
Service, devotion, right action, love. Do the best you can in your life, don't mind the blather. Potent forces for positive change, the likes of which have never existed before, are on duty at all times. And a better world is coming, though there'll be plenty of kicking and screaming as the whole thing gets dragged along into what's better.
Nature always has the upper hand.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but couldn't Gore have run on a stronger environmental platform which would have kept Nader from "stealing" as many votes as he did?
I do not want Dennis Kucinich to be president, we need people like him as legislators. (I still haven't heard him say any combination military, industrial, and complex, which makes me wonder how much of a leader he really is).
Gravel looks like a buffoon because his positions require more explaining than he was given to explain them during debates and he was not asked questions of substance. He shook things up regardless. More people really should be mad.
You might remember that the worst suffering under the Iraq sanctions were in the immediate post-war period before the evil Clintonites got the oil-for-food program going. But yeah, Clinton failed to go much beyond that in terms of undoing the policy Papa Bush had left in place. Clinton was pretty much about sucking. Baby Bush is a whole lot worse.
500,000 vs. 1,000,000? Well, you see, that's a choice you have to make, Mr. and Ms. America. You don't get to opt out. And it doesn't wash off.
Clinton killed about 1,000,000 Iraqis during his 8 year term.
Bush has killed about 1,000,000 Iraqis in his term.
The only difference is the choice of weapons. Starvation and the denial of medical care versus bombs and bullets.
Just the fact that there is STILL such hatred toward Nader after 7 years tells you all you need to know about the nasty, despicable, hateful nature of the Democrats.
That, and they continually want to blame others for their own failures. For instance, remember that 41 Democratic Senators could have banded together to run a filibuster that could have stopped ANYTHING Bush has done in the last 8 years. If you don't like John Ashcroft or Gonzales as AG, well remember the Dems could have stopped them from taking that office if they'd wanted. If you don't like the war in Iraq, the Dems could have blocked its authorization or denied it funding at any time.
So the constant hateful whining bleat that its all Nader's fault is just the Dems trying to deflect attention away from their own constant support and approval of Republican polices.
And its that constant Dem support and approval of Republican policies that was the reason for the Nader campaign in the first place.
The only way things could have been really different today is if that pro-war, corporate tool Al Gore hadn't stolen all those votes away from Nader. For years now, the only real vote for change has been to vote Green. Its those silly Dems who keep stealing votes away from that force for change that are the reason we are here today.
Doubt me, go read today's article's on how the Dems have once again given Bush everything he wants in this year's budget bill. If you keep voting Dem, you'll keep being screwed by the Dems.
I think we should just shorten our message with this political t-shirt
Corporate Media - Chosen
Candidate in 2008!
anyone who votes in this putrid fish bowl - environment is only serving to legitimate the sytematic corruption. Do you really think the Electoral College (GE-NBC , CBS , Clinton News Network, etl al ) will give amention to a left candidate who gets a tiny amount of votes. PEOPLE WITH THIS DELUSION ARE ONLY LEGITIMATING A SYTEM THAT COULD MAKE A SEWER SYSTEM BLUSH ,,,I mean if they were capable of fealing any emotions.....
If you aren't going to vote at all, please explain exactly how you are going to change things.
geoff29 December 13th, 2007 12:25 pm
"Just when you thought it was safe to read the times! damn.
Maybe Chomsky has a point when he states that working for a corporation changes you at the molecular level."
Do you have any doubt?
LAST WEEK RALPH WROTE ABOUT CORPORATE UMBILICAL CORDS AND TODAY GAIL COLLINS! WOW!
HOW EDIFYING. PROFOUND. GERMAINE TO THE LIFE & DEATH ISSUES PARALYZING OUR WORLD.....? WAIT! NO! THESE ARTICLES WERE ABOUT AS RELEVANT AS RALPH HIMSELF! GAIL WHO? THANK GOD HE DIDN'T WRITE ABOUT THE IRAQ WAR, A WAR WE WOULD NOT BE IN IF IT WERE NOT FOR HIS ******* EGO.
THERE IS NOT BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. HE LIVES IN LUXURY. THERE IS A RIVER OF BLOOD RUNNING THROUGH THE STREETS OF IRAQ THAT HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOUGH. PERIOD. REAL HUMAN MISERY AND DEATH RALPHY. REAL. GET IT? GET IT? GAIL WHO? GET IT? GET IT?
NADERHATER? YES.
AND ABOVE I SAW CHOMSKY'S NAME IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS RALPHIES. LET'S NOT DO THAT TO THE BEAUTIFUL AND ILLUMINATING NOAM.
AND FOR THE SHRILL DEFENDERS OF RALPHY: ME THINKETH THOU DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH......(VERY FIRST POST, VERY FIRST) PROBALY PUT THERE BY THE EGO HIMSELF.
COMarc
> Clinton killed about 1,000,000 Iraqis during his 8 year term.
> Bush has killed about 1,000,000 Iraqis in his term.
You, sir, have no respect for the truth.
Iraq suffered heavily under the sanctions which were imposed originally by the UN during GHW Bush's presidency. The policy of not allowing the sanctions to be lifted was started during GHW Bush's presidency. The worst years of Iraqi suffering were the first postwar years, 1991-1992, with infrastructure and war damage unrepaired and the country under quarantine. Under the oil-for-food program, set up in 1995 under Clinton's presidency, the worst of this suffering was relieved and malnutrition was no longer widespread in Iraq.
I personally blamed Clinton for keeping the sanctions on and not doing more, and I organized protests of Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright over this issue, but the policy under Clinton cannot be held responsible for 1 million deaths in Iraq.
To compare the malign neglect of Clinton's Iraq policy with brutal imperial terrorism of the Iraq invasion under George W. Bush is a completely dishonest attempt at handwashing for the consequences of Ralph Nader's intentional and decisive contribution to Al Gore's defeat and GW Bush's accession to power in the White House.
I apologize for upsetting you, mikepeters. I should've spelled "Naderhaters" with a 'z' at the end.
Wow, you read these comments and it becomes apparent that Nader-bashers are truly buffoons. I mean, cut the ranting and face the fact that Gore dug his own grave, and the Democrats continue to dig themselves grave after grave by cow-towing to corporate interests and voting in line with Republicans.
They lost my vote and millions of others with their watered-down compromises and corporate butt-licking.
It's really telling that the Democrats refuse to admit their own mistakes, and instead find someone else to blame. I don't want people like that running my country, and will again throw my vote in with whoever is a real person who runs on a platform about caring about real people.
Oh my god, Nader-haters and Clinton apologists. Bleah. Corporate brainwashing worked.
COMarc - If you keep voting Dem, you'll keep being screwed by the Dems.
This is precisely why I will be voting a straight Republican ticket in 2008.
It's obvious the Clinton wing is not going to lose control of the Democratic Party until it is defeated a number of times, and is forced out by the electorate. Unfortunately, the only mechanism we have to defeat the Clintonites at this point is the GOP.
Of course we will undoubtedly suffer some losses by electing Republicans - Roe v. Wade, Medicare, separation of church and state, who knows - but we've been losing those things anyway with the Democrats in power. We're probably not going to make things too much worse by electing Republicans, and even if we do, it will only provide more incentive for voters to elect progressives.
A friend of mine posted this in Americablog and with permission I reprint it... It says alot....
"Have you heard about the 1.9 MILLION disenfranchised black voters ?
Have you heard about the black box voting problem?
The Supremes stopping vote counting to hand it to Bush?
The robo-calling with fraudulent messages before the election?
All those things would have still happened if Ralph Nader had never been born.
The GOP stole the 2000 election because
THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.
They also stole the 2004 election and would have stolen the 2006 election, but the Mark Foley scandal at the last minute threw off their calculations... no time to reset the black boxes.
Ralph is not to blame for the Republicans stealing the election. And any votes the Dems lost, they lost fair and square by not acting like vertebrates.
Linda | 10.16.07
.
Logic, reason and evidence overwhelmingly point to the need to overthrow the government and abolish capitalism. Voting is a waste of time and in the USA is an anti democratic sham.
People please be honest with yourselves and get guns and prepare to fight against the forces of power and deceit in this country. This country is not based on non-violence. In fact the opposite is the case. Bush is right, if you don't fight against the evil doers, people like Bush, then you will lose, you will get killed.
WOW. NADER LOVERS ARE REAL ABSOLUTISTS. THINGS ARE NOT RELATIVE IN THEIR CONVENIENT LITTLE WORLDS! ALL GOOD ALL BAD MOMMY!
AL GORE AND GW BUSH ARE THE SAME THING HUH? AND ONE OF YOU GENIUSES CALLED ME A BUFFOON? GOSH, HOW WILL I SLEEP TONITE?
AL GORE HAS DONE MORE FOR MANKIND (AND HE IS NOT DONE) THAN RALPH'S EGO HAS EVER EVER DONE-DUM DUM WAS BLOWING HIS HORN VIS A VIS EMISSION STANDARDS IN THE SEVENTIES! THAT WAS HIS BIG CRUSADE, HELLO? NADER'S CAUSE DE CELEBRE' WAS EMMISIONS & DETROIT! WELL GEE, SHUCKS! LOOK AT ALLLLL THE PROGRESS THAT'S BEEN MADE THERE! THAT IS RALPH IN ACTION! OH WAIT. THAT WAS A TOTAL ABSOLUTE, THAT IS ABSOLUTE FAILURE-SO LET'S MOVE ONTO SOMETHING ELSE TO KEEP OUR NAME IN PRINT AND FORGET ABOUT DETROIT EMISSIONS-(MAYBE LET SOMEONE MORE CAPABLE TAKE ON THE RESULTS OF THAT FAILURE-GLOBAL WARMING-THIRTY YEARS LATER-THAT IS AL GORE YOU "BUFFOONS"
YES I MIKE PETERS AM SICKENED BY THIS OLD WINDBAG, HIS EGO AND HIS IDIOT ACOLYTES. ALL OF WHICH WOULD BE TRITE BUT FOR 2000. WHEN NADERZ EGO AND THE MORONS WHO VOTED FOR HIM (BUSH) PUT GW ON THE THRONE AND SET IN MOTION THE INVASION OF IRAQ. POSSIBLY THE GREATEST FOREIGN POLICY DEBACLE IN AMERICAN HISTORY AND INCALCULABLE AS AN INSTRUMENT OF HUMAN SUFFERING AND DEATH. BUT YOU ARE PROUD! YOU NADERLOVERZ SHOULD BE. OF YOUR BREATHTAKING IGNORANCE.
BRING IT ON. BRING IT ON.
You are right again, Ralph.
mikepeters; Could be you the exhaust fumes got to you in the seventies. Blame the Republicrats, not Ralph Nader for what GWB has done. I suggest you do some research, my friend.
And by the way, when the coward-in-chief said "bring it on", our men and women in uniform should have said, "SIR,NO SIR". Go buy the film, mike, and while you're at it, do research on 'The Christmas Truce of 1914' and see what is possible if cannon fodder unite and think for themselves.
Happy Holidays
what was the senator's name? the one who ran for president and was told by gail collins that she was a vanity candidate? oh, yes. caroline braun. a vanity candidate because she only made sense. and here we have more vanity candidates' names: mike gravel, dennis kucinich. oh, you say kucinich is the only candidate who makes sense? i agree. that is why i understand her column to be a vanity column.
OUR PERSPECTIVES ASIDE, IT WAS NICE OF YOU, PEACEMAN, TO SIGN OFF WITH THE WORDS HAPPY HOLIDAYS, THE BEST OF HOLIDAYS TO ALL WHO HAVE POSTED ABOVE, ALL.
MOST SINCERELY, MDP.
If you look at the way people voted in 2000, it is not so easy to blame Nader. In Florida, CNN's exit polling showed Nader taking the same amount of votes from both Republicans and Democrats: 1 percent. Nader also took 4 percent of the independent vote.
At the same time, 13 percent of registered Democrats voted for Bush!
Gore couldn't hold his own base (he couldn't even win in his home state of Tennessee) and because of this, he lost. Blame Gore, not Nader.
The Democrats also don't say one word about the fact that 13 percent of their own party members voted for Bush.
I don't know if I'll ever understand USA politics. It seems completely wrong to blame Nader for exercising his political right to run for president. I suppose the Nader people could equally say all the people who voted for Gore are at fault: if they had voted for Nader then Bush would not have been elected!
See the DVD "An Unreasonable Man"... Ralph Nader is a national treasure!
Correction: See the DVD, "An Unreasonable Man"... Ralph Nader is a national treasure, as is Noam Chomsky and Chalmers Johnson.
To mike peters, nader 2000 and all the other demopublicans,
Denial is such a powerful thing. It actually creates an artificial reality in the minds of the people who are stuck in it. With all the evidence around since the 2000 election, not the least important of which is that Al Gore ACTUALLY WON THE ELECTION BY OVER 500, 000 VOTES, See Washington Post, NY Times in June or JUly of 2001 when all the newspapers investigated the election etc. and counted cards etc. But....I guess when you are as spineless, corrupt, mindless and rotten to the core as most of the Demopublicans are, what else can you say but, "That Nader forced Pelosi, and Reid and the other stiffs to go along with every evil and corrupt policy of the Bush Gang". It's all Nader's fault. What an Ego!!!!!!
You guys are so pathetic...
Ralph Nader is one of the greatest americans who ever lived, bar none. He has done more for the human race than any man alive, and I guess that what upsets these ASSHOLES SO MUCH!!!
asoka---your good statistical analysis of the voting would be useful if the Nader blamers were rational, but unfortunately, it would appear they are stuck in a rant that will not let them think or move on. It is sadly facinating how much hate an intelligent man like Ralph Nader can provoke in certain people. I honestly do not get it! ! Ralph is indeed a national treasure!