I'm practically speechless. Not only is the guilt for 9/11 suddenly up for grabs, but top leaders of the Democratic Congress have endorsed torture and remained silent when they could have prevented it and when the 9/11 Commission was being misled.

We've stepped beyond politics here. These are criminal acts, but the criminals remain in power. No wonder they don't want to impeach Bush: they go down with him.

Let's just hope we HAVE an election in 2008 that isn't completely fake. It's looking like the Democrats have just as much reason to cancel it as the administration.

If we who are frustrated liberals just hang around wringing our hands long enough, perhaps we can find journalists who will manage to blame the Democrats for everything (everything) that has happened since November, 2000. Then we can dust ourselves off, recover our righteousness, and learn how to properly vote for corporations running under the guise of human candidates on the Republican ticket.

Can't be that upside down, you say? Yes, it can. Robert Scheer is demonstrating the technique above.
The only question is how many sheeple take the bait.

WOW: "Pelosi … abetted the waterboarding of our democracy"

Penetrating questions focus brilliant LIGHT into the DARKNESS of shurb's thuggery and secrecy:
"why should we believe what we've been told about what may turn out to be the most important transformative event in our nation's history?"

Especially when 'Pelosi testified before the commission on May 22, 2003, but uttered not a word of caution about the methods used. However, … on Nov. 16, 2005, Pelosi stated correctly that … she knew that "[t]he quality of intelligence that is collected by torture is … uncorroborated and it is worthless."'

So the USA has been gamed by an uncorroborated and … worthless basis for 911, Iraq, wiretapping, 820 yr end of Habeous corpus, and direct gov't propaganda of us citizens?

This could hardly look worse - unless the gov't also allowed or caused 911 to occur - oh darn they did that too.

Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »

Thank you Robert. Another article that should be on the front page of every single newspaper - major and minor - in the country. Sadly, I know it'll never make it to where I am.

DD,
1st …I appreciate the perspective demonstrated in your many post.

However, do you feel this article is unfair towards Polosie and other democrats?
Are they not to be held accountable for their actions or lack there of?
Are you suggesting that it is somehow the reporters fault? Are you suggesting that the media need to table stories critical of the dems?

There is no shortage of articles exposing the repubs for what they are.
And suddenly people who use information detrimental to the dems are sheepal?

Whats Up?

War=Peace,

I agree with you that Dems must be just as accountable for their actions as Repugs, and especially so for things done by Dems when they are in the majority of control (which IS NOT the case with our government as a whole, even though Dems barely have the Congress.)

Liberals losing another election right now to conservatives, though, is pretty serious stuff. And I would think liberal journalists--who CHOOSE what they write about---would want to choose something that helps their consituents---us, the sheeple.

Pelosi is an accessory to torture, and should be prosecuted along with the rest of the Bush Crime Syndicate

This is exactly why Pelosi says impeachment is off the table, and it's also exactly why Kucinich is the only one out there who dares to try to put it back on the table.

Of course we want to know who to blame, don't we? First it was the repubs because they tricked us and then the dems because they tricked us too, but we keep forgetting to blame ourselves.

We're all of us culpable. The ones who voted for Bush share blame because they put him into office in the first place. The ones who didn't vote for Bush share blame because they weren't out in the streets en masse, protesting this war from the beginning. And now we should all know better, we should all know that there's only a handful of our elected representatives that are worth voting for and yet Hillary Clinton is leading in the polls as the most popular democrat candidate. Heck, she's even been endorsed by the likes of Spielberg and Robert Kennedy, Jr, so they're to blame, as well.

It's our fault because what politicians want is to be elected and they wouldn't be saber-rattling and talking "tough" about war if that wasn't what they thought we wanted to hear.

If we all got smart the only politicians we'd listen to would be Kucinich, Gravel and Feingold. Almost all the rest would be out of office.

So maybe we should get smart.

My immediate question to Robert Scheer is: is there democracy in the US? Does the US believe in democracy? Is the US' form of "democracy" a real democracy?

Let me first give a few excerpts on the society of the US:

"We the people once owned our democracy. We elected "representatives" to run it for US. Have you noticed? Somewhere along the way we lost our democracy.
It was foreclosed by wealthy and power elites that corrupted our "representatives" who literally sold us out. Our homeland was foreclosed right in plain sight. Sure, we citizens still reside in the USA, but we no longer own our democracy. We pay rent through our taxes. But we no longer have any equity. Our democracy is owned by the rich, and their partner foreign elites and governments, which is why in a strict sense it no longer is a democracy, but rather a plutocracy.

"Modern day aristocrats – an apt terms considering the many political dynasties in our ruling class - maintain the charade that America is still a democracy by letting us vote. They also give us many freedoms to distract us from our dire political conditions. They're smart, so they limit our choices to the main parties that constitute the two-party duopoly. Even smarter, they convert consumer spending (that they spur) into economic inequality, making them, the rich, even richer and everyone else, all of us, poorer."

"It is a classic irony that a free republic celebrates wealth as it tolerates the erosion of its laws in the interest of capital profit. Democracy and corporate interests naturally conflict when the bottom line, and the health of the community demands a choice. Because they are in pursuit of capital gain to the exclusion of all else, moneyed interests won't hesitate to undermine the freedoms that allow them, and will eventually gather political power to themselves finally replacing a free society with fascism. In a capitalist society, this process is as natural as the rain."

How are the public institutions such as Justice system, police, education system....?

It is no wonder, because of the "colour blinded justice system", that across the US, African American youth are found to be 10 times more likely to receive life sentence without parole than European American youth for the similar crime. According to one report 60,000 African Americans come out of the prisons every year in America. (80% of the prisoners in American prisons are African Americans). In Pennsylvania, Hispanic youth are found to be ten times more likely to receive life sentence than their European American contemporaries. Jonathan Kazol, the author of the book "The Shame of the Nation: The Restoration of Apartheid Schooling in America", commenting on racism and the US education system, calls it "socially, economically enforced apartheid". He says that in America, the African Americans (and the minorities) are systematically pushed to a corner.
What is apparent is the public institutions (police, justice, and political) that are supposed to defend equally the rights of citizens, have become the institutions that suppress the voice and rights of the minorities. Doesn't the State response to Katrina expose that New Orleans and Mississippi are still treated as the Plantation Regions, which in turn indicate the status and condition of minorities. In the history of America a minority member has never become the president of the US (probably because it is "WHITE HOUSE"), a vice-president, a speaker of the House, and anchor of 6.30 p.m. international news!!!! This reflects that the democracy in the US is "by the European American community, for the European American community, of the European American community". Minorities are ALIENS!!!

What about the US' promotion of ITS FORM OF "DEMOCRACY" around the world?

The US "imperial grand strategy," presents the US as "a revisionist state seeking to parlay its momentary advantages into a world order in which it runs the show," a "unipolar world" in which "no state or coalition could ever challenge" it as "global leader, protector, and enforcer" of its form of "freedom" and "democracy." That is why the invasion of Iraq has been given the title "Operation Iraqi Freedom." In the name of "freedom" and "democracy" and fighting communism, the U.S. government has been supporting ruthless despots, and interfering in other sovereign nations through military and other means. No "legal issue" arises when the US responds to a challenge to its "power, position, and prestige" and to its efforts to promote its form of "freedom" and "democracy" around the world. Thus, it wants to create a "culture of fear" in the world, and silence any opposition to the imposition of its will, authority, and its form of "freedom" and "democracy" over other sovereign nations. In the name of "protecting democracy" it is involved in EXTRAORDINARY RENDITIONS, OUTSOURCING OF TORTURE, DENIAL OF HUMAN RIGHTS TO THE INDIVIDUALS LABELED AS "TERRORISTS". The intellectual rationalization for the "promotion of imperial freedom and democracy" is provided by political scientists and the state-controlled media. The most spectacular propaganda achievement was the lauding of George Bush's "vision" to bring "freedom" and "democracy" to the Middle East in the midst of a display of hatred and contempt for democracy. More terrifying is the claim of God's authorization to the U.S. crusade. Former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft declared that U.S. freedoms are "not the grant of any government or document, but...our endowment from God."

Arundhati Roy rightly comments:
"Here we are, confronted with an Empire that has conferred upon itself the right to go to war at will, and the right to deliver people from corrupting ideologies, from religious fundamentalists, dictators, sexism, and poverty by the age-old, tried-and-tested practice of extermination. Empire is on the move, and Democracy is its sly new war cry. Democracy, home-delivered to your doorstep by daisy-cutters. Death is a small price for people to pay for the privilege of sampling this new product: Instant-Mix Imperial Democracy."

The US" FORM OF IMPERIAL "DEMOCRACY" is clearly expressed by the French advocate of colonialism Jules Harmand:
"It is necessary, then, to accept as a principle and point of departure the fact that there is a hierarchy of races and civilizations, and that we belong to the superior race and civilization, still recognizing that, while superiority confers rights, it imposes strict obligations in return. The basic legitimation of conquest over native peoples is the conviction of our superiority, not merely our mechanical, economic, and military superiority, but our moral superiority. Our dignity rests on that quality, and it underlies our right to direct the rest of humanity. Material power is nothing but a means to that end."

Therefore, what is at stake is the very meaning of "freedom" and "democracy" in the rhetoric of the Imperial America. Every kind of violence is being committed in the name of "freedom" and "democracy". They have become little more than a hollow words, "a pretty shell, emptied of all content or meaning." They can be whatever you want them to be. "Freedom" and "democracy" are "the Free World's whore, willing to dress up, dress down, willing to satisfy a whole range of taste, available to be used and abused at will." Thus, "freedom" and "democracy" have become euphemism of the dominant powers. Because what has been regarded as "freedom" by the dominant powers is certainly experienced as non-freedom by other communities, and nations and their citizens.

and...

The Left should be getting their butts together and working to ABOLISH THE CIA instead of writing another "yeah, we know" article ! Besides, go fucking figure ! The CIA built, trained, armed Osama and his gang of terrorists and networks. Just look at the trouble making that's been going on in Afghanistan, India, Turkey, etc ... and then understand that IGNORANCE in the West (yes America and Europe included) is what led to this fucking mess ! The author might as well wait for pigs to fly because the Democratic leadership is just as complicit and corrupt as the GOP !

I read a comment on the Huffington Post by someone who described themselves as a long time Democratic insider in San Francisco who related that the rumor was that Pelosi got her first big rise in politics by performing fellatio on JFK!

Apparently the confessions were so clearly forced that the tapes had to be destroyed. I have known for years that these clumsy patsies were just that. There has been no investigation of 9/11 by any official body that makes any sense at all. Where are the travel records of the 19 guys with box cutters? Why were none of their names on the airline passenger manifests on 9/11/2001? We are supposed to believe that they materialized on board the aircraft like astronauts in an episode of Star Trek. "Beam them up Scotty!"

I know some planes hit those buildings and then an hour or so later the big skyscrapers were blown to smithereens. I can see that on the video tape. The 9/11 Commission members were all lawyers and politicians. Are you kidding me? Where were the structural engineers and scientists and forensic experts? How about just a couple of gum shoe detectives with subpoena power?

This is a fact: There have been no subpoenas issued, no indictments and zero trials regarding the biggest crime in American history. How about some obstruction of justice indictments against the people who ordered the evidence from the crime scene destroyed before an investigation was complete?

Why were no members of the Armed Forces disciplined after the complete failure in defending New York City and Washington, D.C. on 9/11/2001? Several colonels were relived of command recently over that incident where H-bombs were flown unknowingly over the Mississippi river basin. Why no discipline over the failings on 9/11?

The neocons have patterned there activities after the Nazis in so many ways, why should a Reichstag fire strategy be a surprise?

It is my understanding the Kalid Sheik Mohammad, or as FOX news calls him, "KSM," has also confessed to betting on baseball while he was coaching the Reds.

Harvard prof and civil rights advocate (i kid you not) Alan Dershwitz likes and advocates waterboarding.. Does that mean hes had it tried on himself? Would he be prepared to see it done on fellow jewish americans? Or it a pleasure reserved for muslims?
I suggest that people right to him and ask him if hes prepared to undergo a trial of waterboarding.

here is his email address: dersh@law.harvard.edu

and here is his harvard profile...
http://www.law.harvard.edu/facul...acdir.php? id=12

People might also like to write to Harvard and see what they think of one of their inmates (a law prof no less) advocating torture.

Note: Alan is a fan of civil liberties....

There has been no investigation of the biggest crime in American history because the guilty parties are inside the government.
I think Robert Scheer is right. These tapes might have been destroyed because of the truth that was told before torture extracted "confessions".
Remember that BinLaden denied being responsible for 9-11 right after the event, but then they "found" a confession tape in Afghanistan. How convenient. They bomb the place to smithereens, but find a tape in the haystack.
Kind of like finding an intact passport on the streets of Manhattan after the WTC towers exploded into dust. Everything pulverized, but not that passport! It survived the plane explosion and fire, and the building explosion. Righto.
www.911blogger.com/node/11982
9-11 may have been a totally inside job, but knowing these guys, it was probably partially an outsourced job.
Either way, there are people who know what happened, but they will never be questioned until we throw out the corporate funded politicians, outlaw corporate free speech and lobbyists, and get some truth seekers into Washington.
And outlaw the CIA.

This is so much a racketeering case under RICO laws; talk about a criminal enterprise!

The mob at its worse killed what a few thousand each year,

and profited maybe several million - contrast that with

millions dead, thousands tortured, and billions of illegal profits

Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »

Over and over public radio is playing the mouthings of the CIA agent who was himself waterboarded and didn't think it was torture but didn't last more than five seconds and now does think that America is better than that, but thinks the law justified waterboarding back then and
is sure the whole waterboarding thing will blow over.

No it won't. Once torture is out of the bottle it doesn't go back in. Give this kid a Fulbright to go to Argentina and Urugway and report back.

He also thinks good information was received once, and finds this an overwhelming argument.

This country has become a lesser place because of people like you, kid. Drowning and drowning interruptus make the victim think he's about to die and sometimes he does, right on the spot--IT'S TORTURE!!!

Like it or not, you have joined the American torture subculture, far more
reprehensible than the illegal immigrants.
Homework: See the Spencer Tracy, Marlene Dietrich movie "Judgment at Nuremburg." Read "Darkness at Noon" by Arthur Koestler. Pay a visit to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.

BRIAN CT -- Alan Dershwitz likes and advocates EVEN WORSE. He's on record for seeking legal warrants to stick hypodermic needles under a "terrorist's" finger and tonails, but don't worry, he explicitedly stated that they would be sterilized 1st. I just read his ~ 2002 article yesterday; google for it.

GMAFB (Give Me A F'ng Break !),

this 'smarty-pants' high brow is close to pure evil

Gives me a real bad feeling about HARVARD, too

Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »

This is another political red herring so as not to address real issues going on.

Robert Sheer asks if, when the CIA destroyed the two waterboard interrogation tapes, "was it also destroying the truth about 9/11?"

No, but the tapes' destruction does erase the best evidence of exactly what the torturees each actually said at a given point in time - truthful or not, bullshit or not. The destruction thereby leaves the historical record forever limited to the self-serving, revisionist mercies of the torturers, who will reconstruct their version of the conversation (and its critical context) solely from notes or from memory.

In other words, you don't necessarily lose the truth. But what you certainly lose is the ability to ever prove you've been lied to by the interrogators, if they've gone on record elsewhere describing what the interrogation allegedly did, or did not, reveal.

That's why no competent, honest law enforcement agency would ever, ever destroy an actual contemporaneous audiotape of an interview session with a suspect that led up to a confession. That tape will forever be the best evidence of what was actually said.

Feel free to summarize it into a narrative form.

Feel free to type it up into a Q/A transcript format.

But you always, always, save the original tape.

It's the honest police officer's best friend, and the guilty criminal's worst enemy.

Furthermore, trying to claim these tapes were destroyed in order to prevent the identities of our loyal CIA public servants from possibly falling into the hands of terrorist evil doers is the absolute penultimate in chutzpah.

Much like Tricky Dick with the Watergate tapes' miraculous 8 and a half minute erasure gap, the KSM and Zubadaya torture session tapes were destroyed not to cover up the truth. They were destroyed to cover up uncontrovertable evidence that big, big lies had been told elsewhere by the folks who were supposed to be the good guys.

Bill from Saginaw

I have been saying since years now that the Dems are complicit. I have also been saying Dems = Bush enablers.

Impeach Bush
Impeach Pelosi
Impeach the Congress

Goodbye USA
Hello USSA or USrael

At this point, nothing from Bu$h the inferior and the gang says is believable. If he says the date he is speaking check your calender.

Here's my question:

We already have a cover-up.

Now we have the Justice Department and the CIA Inspector General and the "Congress" doing an investigation of it's own obstruction of justice.

How stupid are we?

Why don`t we just get this all over and done with? Bring back the guillotine, the rack, the iron maiden, burning at the stake, and appoint Cheney and anyone he deems fair and balanced to mete out the correct punishment (not torture). FOX NEWS could televise the proceedings and then we could all enjoy the lovely country that COMPASSIONATE , CONSERVATIVE, CHRISTIANITY have brought us.

I'm a little stunned that one poster thinks it's Scheer's job to cover up for Pelosi--because otherwise he might help the "Conservatives" win elections.

It seems to me that Scheer's job is to dig out the truth (that's why he called his site TruthDig -- dontcha think?) rather than basting Nancy Pelosi in Teflon.

No one forced her to acquiesce to torture. I'm a little tired of people telling us we need to jettison all principles so we can continuously support the lesser of two evils.

It seems to me that's exactly how we got into this fetid swamp in the first place: the Democrats stand for nothing except they aren't as atrocious as the Repugs. (Kucinich exempted.)

Obviously Congress will not end our illegal occupation of Iraq. I think those of us who oppose the occupation should not have to pay taxes.

Waterboarding, torture...HAH!
There is nothing that the Capitalist Corporacracy, the Military-Media-Industrial-Complex, will not do in order to get the war, spending and control they need.
A great film to watch about this is the Alex Jones Infowars video "TerrorStorm". Watch it free online here -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7516705476148472744

or just Google "watch terrorstorm video".

This is why, over and over, when the Democratic fundraisers call I tell them that I will give (meager) dollars again when I start to hear Democratic candidates talking out about torture, Guantanamo Bay, spying on Americans, the whole gamut.

Their silence is deafening and leads to one main conclusion--they want to reserve the right to employ torture against people THEY don't like.

Thanks to Robert Sheer and all the people who stay on this issue. This is the last stand for our constitutional way of life (imperfect as it was) and if we don't win it--America becomes, perhaps already has become, something else.

John McCain has impeccable credentials to speak about water boarding. He was a tortured POW. He says it is torture. His statement is good enough for me. Some candidates (the famous soldier/warrior Mitt Romney comes to mind) say it is unwise for those seeking the presidency to make such pronouncements.

I will not vote for Mr. McCain for president, but that doesn't make him wrong on this score.

What this singular issue has to do with revisionist history (re 9/11, I'll leave to revisionist historians, the most numerous kind, it seems.

"Not only did the congressional Gang of Four fail to inform the public about the use of torture by our government, but it also kept the 9/11 Commission in the dark."

And then came the "Military Commissions Act of 2006" which not only limited habeas corpus, but as Mark Benjamin (salon.com) pointed out, "it narrows the definition of a violation of the Geneva Conventions, but also provides some legal indemnity for activities prior to the legislation's becoming law."

Essentially, not only did the 'Gang of Four' with the help of Congress cover George Bush's ass, they also covered their own.

And now of course, we are faced with Sen. Jane Hartman's (deliver-us-from-evil) HR 1955, "The Violent Radicalization Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007", which like the Patriot Act lacks specific definitions and would further enhance the power of government over its unsuspecting citizens.

As Mr. Wilkens (executive director of Equal Justice Alliance has stated: "An 'extremist belief system' (not defined in HR 1955) can be whatever anyone on the commission says it is. Back in the 60s, civil rights leaders and Vietnam War protesters were considered radicals. They weren't committing violence but they were considered radicals because of their belief system."

"The "Gang of Four" is an insider reference to the top members of the House and Senate intelligence committees and not to the thugs who ran Mao's China during the Cultural Revolution." Hmmmm.....?

It has ceased being about winning "elections." You can win an election with George W. Bush, a cadre of ruthless ideologues and a frightened and somnambulent public. Repeatedly. It's about how much is it worth to YOU to live in a representative democracy. It's not on the menu, folks. What are we gonna do about it?

Who is innocent here?

Cindy Sheehan?

Who else??

What? No revolution yet?

As in most other things they pick and choose between, I find it strangely questionable that their Oathes of office which calls for compliance to the US Constitution doesn't out rank other oathes and promises made. Well of course we didn't say anything we promised or swore an oath of Secrecy. What ever happened to your oath of office then or is that a secret now being kept to protect the country.....convoluted...well seems to be a 'big con' of some kind. And this is much bigger than a gang of four, even if this title may help to awaken some of us.

Impeach and Prosecute them all according to the Constitution....Now is the time Here is the place

Guilty by their own admissions actions / nonaction and complacentcy

Richard Paine December 13th, 2007 2:15 pm

"As in most other things they pick and choose between, I find it strangely questionable that their Oathes of office which calls for compliance to the US Constitution doesn't out rank other oathes and promises made."

There must be some secret "executive order" or "congressional statute" on the (hidden) books that they consider above Constitutional Law.

The only odor that secretly covers Constitutional Law,

escapes meaninglessly from their nether regions

The recent French revolts around Paris should be your example... Learn and prepare.

Bush should have been impeached various times by now, found guilty, and executed for treason.

If Congress won't do it, we must.

first of all from the post that I've read. My opinion will wil a lonely shout in the darkness of Liberalism. I'll make my point anyway.
1) this is a form of inducing fear try your luck at sear school.
2) If you want to be sheep great, then leave the sheepdogs alone.
3) impeachment requires the violation a a criminal code.
4) check your constuition start with the preamble
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." PLEASE NOTE the Words " THE United States" not the world, not Canada, not even Islamo-facist.
You cannot compromise with those who want your life style to disappear. rather than warming each other up with feel good agreement read the Al-Jerera or Al Qaeda website. The go back to your BMW (probably leased), and your Latte (probably on your visa account) By the way most American felt they had no business in WW II on Decenber 6th 1941. (check the history

That was not "a lonely shout in the darkness of Liberalism", but rather a "Declaration of Ignorance".
Like a loud BAAAAAH!