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Pelosi and Torture
That House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been a disappointing leader for House Democrats, few serious observers of the congressional condition will deny. But, now, she appears to be something more troubling: a serious hindrance to the fight against the use of crudest and most objectionable torture techniques.
Democrats and Republicans with a conscience have gotten a good deal of traction in recent months in their battle to identify the use by U.S. interrogators of waterboarding - a technique that simulates drowning in order to cause extreme mental distress to prisoners -- as what it is: torture. Arizona Senator John McCain, a GOP presidential contender, has been particularly powerful in his denunciations of this barbarous endeavor. And Senate Intelligence Committee chair Jay Rockefeller, D-West Virginia, and key members of the Senate Judiciary Committee have effectively pressed the issue on a number of fronts.
Now, however, comes the news that Pelosi knew as early as 2002 that the U.S. was using waterboarding and other torture techniques and, far from objecting, appears to have cheered the tactics on.
The Washington Post reports that Pelosi, who was then a senior member of the House Intelligence Committee, was were informed by CIA officials at a secret briefing in September 2002, that waterboarding and other forms of torture were being used on suspected al-Queda operatives. That's bad. Even worse is the revelation that Pelosi was apparently supportive of the initiative.
According to the news reports, Pelosi has no complaint about waterboarding during a closed-door session she attended with Florida Congressman Porter Goss, a Republican who would go on to head the Central Intelligence Agency, Kansas Republican Senator Pat Roberts and Florida Democratic Senator Bob Graham.
"The reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement," recalls Goss.
How encouraging? It is reported that two of the legislators demanded to know if waterboarding and other methods that were being employed "were tough enough" forms of torture to produced the desired levels of mental anguish to force information from suspects who, under the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. Constitution, cannot be subjected to cruel or unusual punishment.
Was Pelosi one of the "tough-enough" cheerleaders for waterboarding? That is not clear, as the speaker has refused to comment directly regarding her knowledge of torture techniques and encouragement of their use. Another member of the House who is closely allied wit Pelosi did tell the Post, however, that the California Democrat attended the session, recalled that waterboarding was discussed, and "did not object" at the time to that particular torture technique.
If this is the case, Pelosi has provided aid and comfort to the Bush administration's efforts to deviate not just from the standards set by international agreements regarding war crimes but from the provision of the Bill of Rights that establishes basic requirements with regard to the treatment of prisoners who in the custody of the United States.
Those deviations are precisely the sort of impeachable offenses that Pelosi has said are "off the table." Her association with the administration on the matter of torture necessarily calls into question the speaker's credibility on questions of how and when to hold the administration to account. It also begs a more mundane political question: At a point when Republicans like John McCain are earning points with their forthright stances against waterboarding, isn't the credibility and the potential effectiveness of the House Democratic Caucus as an honest player in the debate profoundly harmed by the involvement of its leader in behind-the-scenes meetings that by all accounts encouraged the use of that technique?
John Nichols is a co-founder of Free Press and the co-author with Robert W. McChesney of TRAGEDY & FARCE: How the American Media Sell Wars, Spin Elections, and Destroy Democracy — The New Press.
© 2007 The Nation



92 Comments so far
Show AllTheLorax--Are women ready to lead? Check out the comment from Cindy Sheehan above. Don't judge us all by the actions of the freaks you mentioned.
It now becomes clear why Pelosi is such a Bush mouthpiece; impeachment gearings would expose her complicity in crimes underwritten by the current administration.
Pelosi represents what has happened to the Democratic party. Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, Rahm Emmanuel, Hillary Clinton, the DLC, ad nauseum, show that when shove comes to push the Democruds are as enamored of imperial ass kicking as the reactionary right. They are all so desperate to chant "We're Number One" and wear the giant red, white and blue foam rubber hand with the gun barrel index finger pointing to heaven. Deep inside the pockets of corporations and the Israel lobby the Democratic party has ceased to exist. Good people like Kucinich and Gravel are distant echoes of what it used to mean to be a Democrat. Vote for Ron Paul and start the process of tearing down this oppressive federal government.
Further proof that satanism not only makes lousy music, but is a shitty state religion as well.
The only issue I have with this article is the use of the phrase 'simulates drowning'. If you fill someone's lungs with water, is that not actual drowning?
Calling it 'simulated' (read: fake) lessens the impact of the horror of the thing. I don't believe I'd be willing to call it 'fake drowning' if the victim is actually experiencing what I've read about waterboarding techniques. But it sure doesn't sound as mean as saying, 'we drowned him, and then rescued him so we could ask him more questions.'
As for Pelosi, I have always known she was an ambitious politician. We knew it in California, back in the day, and she hasn't changed. Like almost all politicians her ethics are political, which means they are basically corporate (which of course means they are basically non-existent).
Let's just add her to the list of war criminals and hope someday there's a trial where they are all imprisoned for life for the deaths that they have caused directly and indirectly
Please - waterboarding is not simulated drowning, it IS drowning. It deliberately introduces water into the victim's airways - nothing "simulated" about that.
This is a hugely important issue.
Pelosi panders to AIPAC....enough said!
Mordechai Shiblikov: "Kucinish and Gravel are distant echoes of what it used to mean to be a Democrat. Vote for Ron Paul and start the process of tearing down this oppressive federal government."
You lost me when you mention Kucinich and Gravel then turn to plead for Republican Ron Paul. Apparently you, like many of Paul's "worshippers" have not done your research and homework on him or just are
not as Progressive as you think.
http://wwww.december152007
If Pelosi doesn't resign as Speaker of the House I wonder whether she can be voted out by fellow Democrats?
She is keeping impeachment "off the table" in flagrant violation of her oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States! No small accomplishment in the service of Bush. It's obnoxious!
demon-crats, (anti)-republic-ans, wht's the difference? All any of them want is Power.
In my letters to Pelosi re: impeachment, I used to include pictures of Iraqi children maimed / killed and tell her that she had blood on her hands.
Now, I'm going to include pictures of people being tortured and tell her that at some point, the universal karma will put her on the recieving end.
Thankfully, the Universe / God / Life - choose the word that works for you - is a Just Universe.
Let's flood her office with letters and torture pictures! She shall reap what she has sown.
IMPEACH PELOSI!
"Was Pelosi one of the "tough-enough" cheerleaders for waterboarding? That is not clear.."
Nothing like shooting first and getting the facts later.
I can only repeat my love for this incredibly courageous woman.
If she had not been instrumental in winning back the House from those gangsters, I think we would now be expanding the war in Iran and Syria and further undermining our social programs.
Nancy took away the presidents rubber stamp House almost single handedly, going around the country and making the case for change.
My friends, I am a progressive liberal, I know a lot of progressive liberals, you people are not progressive liberals.
The Liberals I know are intelligent and logical, Spock might say you people are illogical and I might add dumb.
Or as the Beatles might say, I would love to see the plans for your revolution.
When do you guys think the Third Party will be able to take control of the government?
Will that be before the end of the Twenty First Century?
We need to make sure that everyone is aware of this and those voters who live in Cindy Sheehan's district absolutely must vote for her, and those who do not need to send money to her campaign.
Spock would say Pelosi is illogical.
Yes Impeach Pelosi first!
Well that is my Dream but we can all support Cindy who is runnin for Pelosi's seat.
That is for real!
We've known all along that the Republicans could not have dismantled a free democratic govermnent unless the Democrats were helping them all along. Only now are all of the ways they helped the criminals starting to trickle out.
How depressing to realize that both major parties are gung-ho on this stupid "war on Terror" and building an Israeli-American empire in the middle east no matter what it takes. Will the American people ever take their country back? It appears not as the two leading candidates (both from Arkansas)are both followers of Bush and will continue building the empire abroad while dismantling civil liberties at home.
Pelosi has said over and over that impeachment is off the table. She has shown that her own personal decision overrides the rule of law and the truth. This is not the kind of leadership we need from Democrats. She is just another Washington "Decider" like Bush.
SEQUOIABISON's mindless support and love of Pelosi is just a form of celebrity love. I would rather love the truth and what is right instead of some politician. When the politican follows the law and works to bring the truth to light, then maybe I can respecct her or him. But this hero worship or love of political leaders, that is corrupt.
Pelosi lost a lot of respect the way she treated Code Pink members who camped out in front of her home in Pacific Heights. She told them that they were not her constituents. She waived them off. This is not a great leader. She is just another women from wealth and privilege who is out of touch with plight of the common people.
It is amazing to me that our country has a need for discussion about torture. Existing law and treaty agreements are crystal clear as to the use of ANY method to coerce gathering of intellegence from prisonors. I do agree that everyone in the chain of command that permitted this disgrace be brought to justice.
Veteran '66-68
celebrity, and others, what do you think of this article about Ron Paul in counterpunch today? www.counterpunch.com/volatile12102007.html
Well, we know a Cindy Sheehan who is running for Pelosi's seat. This could be a good time for progressives to get behind her and try to knock Pelosi out. Then, we would have to get a new speaker, and it is difficult to know what the beltway Democrats might come up with next. Still it would send a powerful message.
We cannot just support any Democrat. Progressives have to rally behind unseating Democrats who are helping the other side.
Pelosi should be removed and prosecuted.
It is very simple guys….. The great thinker and philosopher, Lewis Black, once said ,,, "the Democrats are the party of no ideas and the Republicans are the party of bad ideas."
Who supports Pelosi and torture?
American Senator Feinstein was speaking to a CNN tv personality the other day on this issue. She said that America shouldn't go in for "heavy" torture.
So, I guess, "light" torture is ok. Don't set the bar too high there, Dianne. Who decides what is light and what is heavy? Let me guess, is his first name George?
Don't bother changing all the references to torture in American legal documents. There is probably already a secret "signing statement" or "executive order" that does just that. Anyway, you have already passed a law that exempts the CIA and allows them to break the law and torture people. As if it matters to people around the world whether it is this or that arm of the US government that is kidnapping, torturing and murdering. (I guess what US presidents meant when they signed all those arms control, refugee, anti-torture treaties was:
US leaders: "we keep our word, unless we don't, …but that is ok because the CIA or department x or bureau y is doing it, plus…I was crossing my fingers behind my back while signing, aha got you!)
Just to be on the safe side though, hold some hearings, grant some immunity and while you are at it, declare the whole wide world a terrorist entity (it will save you the effort of having to do it piecemeal).
But don't be surprised, Senator Feinstien, Nancy Pelosi et al, if the rest of the world starts to question the word of the US. And in case you haven't noticed, the natives are less and less willing to put up with your Democrat/Republican good cop/bad cop routine. If the US ceases to be a reliable actor on the world stage, other nations will feel compelled to either acquire nuclear weapons or create alliances with other nuclear-armed states. I don't think this is a good thing, not even for the millionaire/billionaire politicians Americans allow to rule them. (Is it true you have a 99% re-election rate for members of congress? Sweet.)
"...you people are illogical and I might add dumb."
I'm just an insect, not a person at all, and I feel left out. Please insult me as well.
"My friends, I am a progressive liberal,..."
Yeah, progressives go around insulting their friends in order to win arguments.
For a laugh, please go here:
http://www.dccc.org/100hours/
and read about all the wonderful things that the Dems have ALREADY accomplished for us.
I love the check marks.
We will start by cleaning up Congress
no new deficit spending.
We will make our economy fairer
We will make health care more affordable for all Americans
We will energize America by achieving energy independence
No wonder they're so tired that they've rolled over and played dead.
"Yeah, progressives go around insulting their friends in order to win arguments."
First of all I am not trying to win an argument, just defending the honor of a great lady.
I never have illusions of winning points with irrational people, and you people are among the densest I have ever come across.
Give the Republicans a pass.
You people sound like it was the dems that initiated the war and the dems that were responsible for Abu Graib and Gitmo.
Perhaps you guys were away from class when Bush and the Republican Congress authorized the bombing of Iraq with shock and awe and Cheney was out there justifying it.
Now you want to lay this mess and the Bush approved torture at the dems door. Pleeeze.
What a pathetic rewriting of history.
SEQUOIABISON, I would call you a fantasist. A "progressive liberal" who believes in the current corrupt political system. If I'm not mistaken, the dems are about to cave and continue to fund the killing of innocents... under the guise of funding Afghanistan. Pelosi talked a good game and then realized she's controlled by the same forces the other side... "Oh yeah, who funded my campaign and how will I ever get re-elected?"
A stance on torture, like one on invading a country on lies, cannot be short-sighted... any politician with a shred of moral fiber knows this. I'm sure Pelosi will blame it on the political climate of 2002... and "progressive liberals" like you will give her a pass and then go vote for Hillary... and then explain to us how much progress has been made... wake up please... many here are grounded in the brutal life and death reality that currently surrounds us.
No matter that this was a strategic Republican leak... if it shows someones true colors I await more leaks. I hope you're wearing your "I heart Pelosi" pin when more funding goes to this war... you and your progressive friends can sit around patting each other on the back... reassuring yourselves about being courageous.
Right now, Gov Kane is talking about this on Talk of the Nation on NPR
A former CIA operative called in and said that this technique saves american lives.
That they successfully obtained information from some supposed AlQaeeda operatives that saved American Lives.
Really.
How many people are out there hatching new plans that you have no idea about, despite wire tapping American Citizens?
What other procedures outlined in the Geneva Convention would you use to extract information from a person, and how many lives would it save.
And if we still get badly attacked, is the procedure still justified?
When our people get captured in "enemy" or "Occupied" lands, what are we to expect from their captors? And then from their families?
Old Questions, all, I am sure
Zero
How many Dems voted for the AUMF (Public Law 107-243) that was used to invade Iraq? None, was it?
"Give the Republicans a pass." ???
"Perhaps you guys were away from class..."
I don't go to class. I'm an insect. I was out swarming.
"Now you want to lay this mess..."
Actually, based on what I've read here over and over, we want to end this mess and Ms. Pelousy (cheap shot) is not doing enough (anything?), IMHIO (in my humble insect opinion).
Anyway, despite these differences, peace to you and yours.
Proverbs 30:27 tells us that 'the locusts have no king' - my fav Bible line.
locust
Yeah, that list of Democratic "accomplishments" is really impressive, isn't it? Not a single one has anything to do with repairing GW Bush's destruction of American rights and benefits, restoring America's Constitutional government, bringing GW Bush to justice for his criminal activities, or ending the war in Iraq.
Pelosi thinks governing is a tea party with crooked pinkies and dainty napkins, making nice with criminals, when right now we need an all-out battle to settle this Constitutional crisis.
Perhaps Pelosi is like the great "progressive" democrat Bill Clinton. I will never forget when he left the primary campaign trail to go back to Arkansas to preside over the execution of a brain damaged african american man. That is the kind of "progressive" the so called democratic "progessives" today so love.
Pelosi is a wolf in sheep's clothing. She is the single richest member of Congress and her husband is a major contributor to AIPAC. Just call her Repug Lite.
Are women ready to lead?
Let's look at the fine exaples of women that are 'in power':
Hillary Clinton
Laura Bush
Sandra O'Connor
Condoleeza Rice
It appears that you have to be a shifty, sleezy, pernicious woman in order to achieve power.
It's the same for men so I guess that shows there's no difference between the sexes after all.
I should have put Laura at the top. Hillary, Sandra, and Condi haven't killed anyone yet.
Random running of stops signs that coincidently kill one's boyfriend... yeah, sounds like she was being cosmically groomed for her dark lord.
And Senate Intelligence Committee chair Jay Rockefeller, D-West Virginia, and key members of the Senate Judiciary Committee have effectively pressed the issue on a number of fronts.
Not according to Glenn Greenwald who says:
Jay Rockefeller was one of the key Democrats briefed on the torture methods who never objected. But it's far worse than that. In September, 2006, Rockefeller was one of 12 Senate Democrats to vote in favor of the Military Commissions Act, one of the principal purposes of which was to explicitly authorize the CIA's "enhanced interrogation program" to proceed (even though it continues to be illegal under the Geneva Conventions). Thus, not only did Rockefeller remain silent when continuously briefed on illegal torture methods by the CIA, he then voted to legalize those methods by voting in favor of one of the most Draconian laws in modern American history. That law also retroactively immunized government officials from any liability for past lawbreaking.
This is not just about Pelosi. It's about the total Democratic leadership of both houses abandoning any pretense of leading "the opposition" and, instead, demonstrating how to become a "good German" of the 21st century.
This essay fails to establish any facts re: Pelosi whatsoever. Relying on quotes by Porter friggin Goss, a major cheneybush cultist, and some anonymous "aide?" Since when is that enough to start fryin' Madame Speaker, especially when compared to, you know, the f**king maniacs who actually ORDERED the torture and COMMITTED the torture and LIED about the torture and LOBBIED for more torture and have now DESTROYED EVIDENCE of the torture.
Porter Goss should be talking to a Prison Guard about his cellmate problems, not to some reporter about one of the most powerful women in America.
Pelosi is just Cheney in drag.
US Congressional Candidate Cindy Sheehan Calls on Pelosi to Explain
Silence on Torture Briefing.
US Congressional Candidate Cindy Sheehan today called upon Nancy
Pelosi to respond to a story printed in the December 9 Washington Post
which claims that the Speaker of the House was present in a 2002
meeting where four members of Congress were given a virtual tour of
the CIA's overseas detention sites and torture program.
According to the CIA, no objections were raised by any member of
Congress present in the meeting, even though waterboarding, the
interrogation technique profiled in the meeting, is illegal under
international and US military law.
Pelosi has declined to comment on the story.
"My son was killed in part because of a battle that resulted from the
torture happening at Abu Ghraib," said Sheehan. "If Nancy Pelosi had
done the right thing in 2002 and taken a stance against the use of
inhumane torture practices Casey might still be alive, so would
thousands more and think of those who could have been saved from this
horrific abuse."
"How she can claim that she supports the troops when her actions and
silence put them directly into harms way?"
Sheehan, who this year declared her candidacy to run for Pelosi's
seat, reaffirmed her intentions to unseat the House Speaker.
"This is the smoking gun that makes it obvious why Nancy Pelosi 'took
impeachment off the table.' It is more urgent now than ever that she
is removed from office & I am even more determined to win her seat in
2008."
Waterboarding, a simulated drowning technique used as a torture method
since the Spanish Inquisition, is outlawed under Article 3, Section 1
(a) of the Geneva Convention which prohibits, "Violence to life and
person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment
and torture." All countries signatory to the UN Convention Against
Torture are subject to the prohibition on torture. In 2006, the US
Department of Defense released a revised Army Field Manual entitled
Human Intelligence Collector Operations prohibiting the use of
waterboarding by U.S. military personnel.
"Nancy Pelosi and other members of Congress should be using their
Constitutional authority to end all use of torture." said Sheehan,
"Acquiring information through use of torture on prisoners of war is
as inhumane as it is unreliable."
According to Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution,
"The Congress shall have power to....declare war... and make rules
concerning captures on land and water;"
-END-
frank1569 and SEQUOIABISON raised valid points about not rushing to judgment.
Now Cindy Sheehan has asked Ms. Pelosi to explain her actions.
Ms. Pelosi? Hello...hello...hello
"Porter Goss should be talking to a Prison Guard about his cellmate problems"
I think most of us could get behind that (insert your favorite prison joke here).
Seriously (I think I can manage for a few seconds) -
Thank you again for your courage, Cindy. You are an inspiration to us.
GO CINDY !
Any chance we can get California to stop voting......Pelosi Speaker of Torture, Feinstein only job making sure her husband gets thoses billion dollar contracts......I know the ethics committee said she did nothing wrong.
And we can't forget Gov. Swartzwhatever. A stupid german weightlifter.
If I lived there I put a bag over my head forever.....or maybe that earthquake to end all earthquakes will drop the damn state into the ocean......but make sure Congress is out of session.
But on second thought Pelosi will be touring secret prisons and Feinstein will be hob nobbing with the military industrial complex. As for the gov. who cares.
if she has no comment, if it walks like a duck....well, you know the rest. jesus christ, are there no good politicians in america?
Reply:
no! don't stop voting...
vote for me!
Had enough yet?
Please stop voting Democrat. You just keep getting more and more of this same @#$@. Please stop voting Democrat.
Cindy:
If you don't win, that means San Franciscans Support Torture, I posted this yesterday but it seems appropriate today as well.
To each and every person over the age of 18 who lives in San Francisco - Do you support torture? Do you think it is okay to torture other humans? If you vote for Pelosi in the next election, or, you don't vote for Cindy Sheehan then you support torture. If you stay at home and don't vote for Cindy Sheehan then you support torture. It's that simple.
San Francisco do you support torture?
Any excuse as to why Pelosi, would be better than Sheehan, is an excuse for torture.
Ramsay
Pelosi went around the country campaigning to take back Congress so she could get in on some of the corporate loot, which immediately started spilling over into the Democratic side of the aisle. And was it money well spent!
The first thing she did was take impeachment off the table, which signaled to Bush, as if he didn't know, that nothing will change. Just let us know what you want, we'll murmur politely and then we'll give it to you. Business will be conducted with different sound effects and the same old familiar results.
She has been in the lead for the DLC agenda, starting the compromise to the right of center and moving quickly to the right, every time. Fawning photo ops with Bush. Swanning around the halls of power with the other insiders. Putting those pesky progressives in their place.
Not enough votes to beat the Republicans? Bullshit, Nancy, you and the DLC never even intended to come to the game.
Enough of these people. What needs to happen is an organized progressive campaign to support serious opposition to every member of what was formerly known as the Democratic Party that is still supporting Bush.