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Democratic Complicity in Bush's Torture Regimen
The Washington Post reports today that the Bush administration, beginning in 2002, repeatedly briefed leading Congressional Democrats on the Senate and House Intelligence Committees -- including, at various times, Jay Rockefeller, Nancy Pelosi, and Jane Harman -- regarding the CIA's "enhanced interrogation methods," including details about waterboarding and other torture measures. With one exception (Harman, who vaguely claims to have sent a letter to the CIA), these lawmakers not only failed to object to these policies, but affirmatively supported them.
This information was almost certainly leaked to the Post by intelligence officials who are highly irritated -- understandably so -- from watching the manipulative spectacle whereby these Democrats now prance around as outraged victims of policies to which they deliberately acquiesced, when they weren't fully supporting them. Numerous liberal bloggers are already drawing the only conclusions that can be drawn, and expressing their outrage and horror at the Democratic Party leadership. Those sentiments are indisputably appropriate, and I just want to add a few more points to them.
Jay Rockefeller was one of the key Democrats briefed on the torture methods who never objected. But it's far worse than that. In September, 2006, Rockefeller was one of 12 Senate Democrats to vote in favor of the Military Commissions Act, one of the principal purposes of which was to explicitly authorize the CIA's "enhanced interrogation program" to proceed (even though it continues to be illegal under the Geneva Conventions). Thus, not only did Rockefeller remain silent when continuously briefed on illegal torture methods by the CIA, he then voted to legalize those methods by voting in favor of one of the most Draconian laws in modern American history. That law also retroactively immunized government officials from any liability for past lawbreaking.
Rockefeller is not just any Democrat. He is the individual whom the Democratic Senate caucus thereafter elected -- and still chooses -- to lead them on all matters relating to intelligence. Just consider how compromised he is and they are when it comes to investigating abuses by the intelligence community over the last six years. Rockefeller was complicit in all of those abuses, and the Democrats voted for him -- and still support him -- as their Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. How can Rockefeller possibly preside over meaningful investigations into conduct and policies -- including the destruction of the videotapes and the conduct which those videotapes would reveal -- of which he approved? And how can Senate Democrats pretend to be outraged at such policies when the leader they chose supports them?
This is exactly why I was so ambivalent, at best, about the Democrats' melodramatic protest that Michael Mukasey's refusal to condemn waterboarding as torture somehow placed him beyond the realm of the mainstream. Torture didn't become an American policy despite the best efforts of a righteous Democratic leadership to stop that. Torture became an American policy precisely because a meek and often outright supportive Democratic leadership continuously allowed it. As I wrote at the time the Democrats were pretending to consider impeding Mukasey's confirmation:
This notion that Mukasey's unwillingness to declare waterboarding categorically illegal crosses some sort of bright Beltway line seems equally unconvincing, even somewhat manipulative. It has long been known that the Bush administration directed the CIA (at least) to waterboard detainees who were convicted of nothing. There was very little real protest about any of that from any genuine Beltway power circles, including Senate Democrats. In fact, even knowing that, the Military Commissions Act was enacted merely a year ago, deliberately leaving an unclear legal landscape (at best) as to whether waterboarding was outlawed. And Democrats did not even engage in the debate, and did not even try to mount any serious opposition to it. Quite the contrary, most of them were mute when the debate was being held, preferring to hide behind the McCain/Warner/Graham trio, and were even prepared to vote in favor of the Act until some last minute tinkering made without their participation offended them enough (on procedural grounds) to cause them to cast meaningless votes against it, long after its passage was guaranteed. . . .
But now, [Mukasey's radical beliefs] and he are well within mainstream Beltway ideology, thanks to some combination of acquiescence and active support from the core of both political parties. And there is something deeply artificial and manipulative about a Congress that has decided to permit all of these things to take root to pretend suddenly that they are so offended by them, that what Mukasey believes crosses their bright lines so clearly that he cannot be confirmed.
I'm not making this point in service of some broader aim. I'm not pointing any of this out in order to try to persuade anyone that there are no meaningful differences between the parties or that it's irrelevant who wins in 2008 (here, for instance, are the partisan vote breakdowns on the Military Commissions Act and bill to legalize warrantless eavesdropping). But it is simply undeniable that the Democratic leadership has continuously enabled and, more often, supported the defining Bush policies. I wish none of this were true. I wish we had a genuine, vibrant opposition party. It would be indescribably beneficial if the rare, isolated and usually marginalized voices within the Democratic Party (and the even rarer and more marginalized voices in the GOP) were predominant. But they just aren't. That's just a fact that can't be ignored. The Democratic Party in Congress is largely controlled and led by those who have enabled and affirmatively supported the worst aspects of the Bush foreign policy and the most severe abuses of our country's political values.
And efforts to apologize for what these Congressional Democrats have done by claiming that they "were virtually helpless to respond," or suggesting that knowingly inconsequential expressions of private protest are somehow noble, are counter-productive. Why excuse or apologize for the profound failure of those who seek leadership positions on the Intelligence Committee -- who, after all, are being briefed precisely because they are expected to act when they learn of illegal behavior -- when they abdicate their responsibilities? That only encourages such malfeasance to continue.
Powerful Committee members have all sorts of options for stopping such lawbreaking. They chose not to avail those options, either out of fear, indifference and -- apparently in many cases -- because they supported the lawbreaking. The solution is to work to replace those who have done that with those who won't. Torture methods aren't any less reprehensible when endorsed by Democrats.
Beyond the complicit Jay Rockefeller, consider whom Nancy Pelosi installed as his House counterpart on the Intelligence Committee -- Silvestre Reyes. As Harper's Ken Silverstein reports today, Reyes has numerous, overlapping close personal ties with the CIA official at the center of the scandal over the destroyed interrogation videotapes, Jose Rodriguez. Silverstein also references a report that a key contractor with extensive business before the House Intelligence Committee not only contributes extensively to Reyes' campaign, but now employs both his son and daughter.
How can Reyes be expected to exercise meaningful oversight over the intelligence community when he is so intricately linked to its leading members? Reyes just issued a statement urging that the "destroyed video" investigation not dump everything on a "scapegoat" (meaning Rodriguez) -- a fair enough point, but one he's in no position to make given that Rodriguez is such a close confidant of his and any such statement would be understood as his wanting to protect his "very close friend."
Just look at how compromised Congressional Democratic leaders are when it comes to those charged with exercising "oversight" over our intelligence communities. And one finds this with almost the entire list of Bush abuses.
Whether it's the war in Iraq or illegal surveillance or the abolition of habeas corpus and now the systematic use of torture, it's the Bush administration that conceived of the policies, implemented them and presided over their corrupt application. But it's Congressional Democrats at the leadership level who were the key allies and enablers, never getting their hands dirty with implementation -- and thus feigning theatrical, impotent outrage once each abuse was publicly exposed -- but nonetheless working feverishly the entire time to enable all of it every step of the way. Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book "How Would a Patriot Act?," a critique of the Bush administration's use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, "A Tragic Legacy", examines the Bush legacy.
© Salon.com
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54 Comments so far
Show AllNever engage in dialogue with brainwashed Democrats like nader2000 or metamorph unless you have time to waste. These are the type of idiots who put Pelosi and Reid in power and they're ready to do the same with Hillary or Obama. These morons are beyond dialogue.
Democrats in congress have supported and voted for each and every one of Bush's criminal enterprises for the past 7 years, but nader2000's and metamorph's stupidity is such that they'll continue to vote for the 'lesser of two evils.' Democrats are not lesser, they're greater.
With humans such as these, I feel morally superior as an insect.
. . . and Congressional Dems really expect us to vote for them . . . the not-so-lesser of two evils . . . in 2008.
They'd best listen to the vast majority who demand they take immediate steps to impeach the Great Deciding Duo . . . and hold them ACCOUNTABLE for crimes against American citizens and humanity in general.
Meanwhile, no to Hillary and Obama . . . YES! YES! YES! for Kucinich . . . Edwards, and maybe Dodd. No to self-indulgent telemedia wags . . . we will not accept your telling us whom we are to select for President while denying the others a voice.
The above are the opions shared by everybody I know and have met over the last two years . . . including a good many republicans.
How many times must one be reminded that the national parties in Washington, DC are simply two sides of the same coin.
Wise up! Rise up! The 2008 election should be when Americans finally take back their country with a NEW political direction free of special interests and corporate control.
One coin, two sides. In other news; dog bites man.
Support Cindy Sheehan in her attempt to oust the despicable, war-profiteering Nancy "let them eat cake" Pelosi from her San Francisco Congressional seat.
Ralph Nader said it- that Gore was like Bush!
We are oversimplifying, the two parties are not the same and Cindy Sheehan is not expereinced enough to be a Congressional Majority leader. Nancy Pelosi is the first woman leader of the Congress.
Nobody is perfect. We are dealing with tradeoffs in politics- if you want to be purer than pure, you will not get anybody like that elected. There are too many people reading these blogs who think that they are perfect or aspire to that. Nice idea but not so.
I think we all understand now why Nancy Pelosi took impeachment "off the table". The leading Democrats are up to their necks in collusion for every impeachable offense the Bush administration has committed, by either voting for them or keeping silent when they KNEW the illegal acts Bush, Cheney, et al had committed.
Nader was right.
Locusts dont need any shame. They do what they have to do. I suppose politicians do too but...
"I'm not making this point in service of some broader aim. I'm not pointing any of this out in order to try to persuade anyone that there are no meaningful differences between the parties or that it's irrelevant who wins in 2008 (here, for instance, are the partisan vote breakdowns on the Military Commissions Act and bill to legalize warrantless eavesdropping). But it is simply undeniable that the Democratic leadership has continuously enabled and, more often, supported the defining Bush policies. I wish none of this were true. I wish we had a genuine, vibrant opposition party. It would be indescribably beneficial if the rare, isolated and usually marginalized voices within the Democratic Party (and the even rarer and more marginalized voices in the GOP) were predominant. But they just aren't. That's just a fact that can't be ignored. The Democratic Party in Congress is largely controlled and led by those who have enabled and affirmatively supported the worst aspects of the Bush foreign policy and the most severe abuses of our country's political values."
There is only one way to change this. It is to challenge conservative Democrats in the primaries, and work to support progressive candidates and politicians within the Democratic Party.
But I can't help but suspect this isn't what Glenn Greenwald wants us to do. He denies it, but his rhetoric sounds like he wants another round of Nader or some pipedream of a third party. That will never succeed; in fact, those who call for such a solution aid and abet the conservative forces within the Democratic Party, and thereby help the Right keep control in this country.
Nader himself and his supporters are every bit as responsible for the torture as any of these Democrats are, because this kind of thing was a completely predictable consequence of letting George W. Bush win the White House.
It didn't happen when Clinton was president, and it wouldn't have happened if Gore had been president. We all know this, and no amount of screeching rhetoric is going to change that.
Nader2000..NO ONE let bush "WIN" the White House, except, Harris, Jebb Bush and Scalia.
metamorph: " . . if you want to be purer than pure, you will not get anybody like that elected."
We are not asking for human perfection; what we are asking for are elected representatives who will be honest with their constituents, uphold the constitution, and respect, obey, and enforce the laws of this country and our treaty obligations with other nations. Is that 'purer than pure?"
I understand your point about trade-off politics, but there absolutely has to be some base of morality that is not negotiable. I am not a radical. I am a father, teacher and veteran who simply expects a modicum of legality and intelligence from our representatives. With rare exceptions, we have no such government in office today. Those who are within the system and who do voice their discontent are marginalized by the MSM; those on the outside of the system who do the same are politically isolated, or as in Col. Anne Wright's case, illegally jailed, denied her right to visit foreign countries, and put on restrictive probation for having the courage and the intelligence to voice her grievances against this government. If you think that is simply "trade-off" politics, then go read Naomi Wolf's "The End of America," as well as Sheldon Whitehouse's floor speech condemning Bush's executive grab of power.
We won't have to worry about political parties if we continue to accept such "trade-offs," they are superfluous in a fascist state.
Nader 2000: you are wrong in at least one respect - illegal renditions actually began during Bill Clinton's presidency.
willybill "NO ONE let bush "WIN" the White House, except, Harris, Jebb Bush and Scalia."
Actually, I would say that Sandra Day O'Connor holds a lot of responsibility. She was the swing vote - and she KNEW she held that position. She held it for years.
I wonder what she could have been thinking when she voted. I wonder how she is now justifying that vote to herself. She seemed like a woman of integrity - not like Hillary or Nancy.
We all bear the weight of the world suffering this country has caused over the last four centuries. How does Sandra bear her part of the weight, knowing what she knows now?
This isn't the first time our so-called "representatives" were "briefed" on an illegal Cheneybush program without flinching:
"...we briefed the Congress for more than four years and it's critical that it continues, Miles." So said traitor Dan Bartlett in Jan, 06 re: Loonitary Decider deciding to ignore FISA.
But, hey, let's all act shocked that our elected officials would ever ignore administration lawbreaking for the first time again - it's more fun.
Can you imagine this pack of mediocre morons writing the Constitution and Bill of Rights for this United States? Face it, we have a different type of people supposedly representing us now than when our government was being set up. Maybe it is because these no-accounts have never seen anything but prosperity and easy living, so they have no clue what average hard working people need or want. It has been said that adversity builds character, and it seems there is mighty little of that shown in those spoiled patsies in all three branches of government. Well, with their grand leadership, we all may be facing much adversity shortly, so in enough time, like a couple generations, things could improve.
"Cindy Sheehan is not experienced enough to be a Congressional Majority leader."
Answer 1: Nancy Pelousy is experienced and look where that got us.
Answer 2: Who said Ms. Sheehan would be Maj. leader? Isn't that usually done on a seniority basis?
"There are too many people reading these blogs who think that they are perfect or aspire to that."
Golly, you looked right into my insect soul, didn't you? Can you tell what I ate for breakfast?
"That will never succeed" - Nader2000
Never say never - Romeovoid
"Nader himself and his supporters are every bit as responsible for the torture as any of these Democrats are, because this kind of thing was a completely predictable consequence of letting George W. Bush win the White House."
Sorry, dude, not everyone can see the future like you can. Do you win the lottery often?
Sorry, the last of the ballot was omitted....
Please copy, paste and send to ignotzle@windstream.net
locust - The difference between winning the lottery and recognizing who George W. Bush was and what he would do in office is that in the case of the lottery you don't have tons of clues from what the man said and did in other offices, who his top advisers and co-conspirators were and what they said and wrote and did in past positions. I knew who Bush was. So did anybody else who gave a damn. So did Ralph Nader, and so did his top co-conspirators, or they damn well should have, and that's why I hold them responsible.
Nader2000 -
Thank you for the reasoned response to my post. It's more than I deserve, but then I'm an insect so what do I know? I swarm, it's what I do.
If anyone wants a real chuckle, go here:
http://www.dccc.org/100hours/
and check out what the Dems claim that they have accomplished.
They even use check marks.
We will start by cleaning up Congress
no new deficit spending
We will make our economy fairer
We will make health care more affordable for all Americans
We will energize America by achieving energy independence
After accomplishing all that, it's no wonder that they've rolled over and played dead since.
well the dems are as much in AIPAC's pocket as are the republicans. and it turns out that aipac thinks that an easy torture policy is good for israel. so of course there will be dems on board for torture.
remember it was schumer and feinstein (was it feinstein) who let mukasey get through the committee, mukasey who couldn't commit himeself to say waterboarding is torture.
it's a disgrace what aipac is demanding of congress and what congress is willing to do for their money
If they're in
Vote 'em out
Return Congress
To the people.
Boycott XXon/mobil globally
to bankruptcy.
Let's see how many of us there are.
Write a letter to a Congress person.
How many people are on this entire site? 10-12?
Isn't there another Rockefeller who is responsible for even torment and sufffering for those who are detained behind bars - the Rockefeller responsible for the laws we have in this country that have imprisoned far too many Americans for a medical condition called 'drug addiction'?
Wouldn't like that genetic line of karma for all their money, power, and fame.
And if Congress, especially the Democrats haven't done anything yet, they are not going to as they lack the courage and integrity needed to bring about change. Just about all who are involved in goverment service have been morally and ethically corrupted at one level or another by this administration. Most importantly those who "thought" they were making a difference and keeping 'us' safe.
Well, no wonder that Jay Rockefeller dosen't want a special prosecuter! Bush's foxes in the CIA and Senate hen houses would sweep this Dem's compliance under the rug.
Who are these players? They represent the plutocracy that rules the US. We have the raptor capitalist on the right (aka Republicans); the old rich (Rockefeller, Bush, Richard Scaife, etc.) and the nouveau riche (Richard Perle, Erik Prince , Cheney, et al). We have the less rapacious but also somewhat bent centrists (aka Democrats); the old rich (Rockefeller, Kennedy, Kerry via Heinz, etc) and the "plus ou moins nouveau riche" (Pelosi, Feinstein via Blum, Harman, etc).
They are like the British aristocracy of the 18th and 19th centuries. One could find lots of political penchants among them, but one thing they had in common to be defended with equal tenacity was their noblesse and the power and wealth that went with it. You want regular folks, stop voting for the likes of Clinton and Giuliani who strive obsessively to insert themselves into this class. Vote for the Cindy Sheehans and Dennis Kucinichs of our society.
Republicans? Democrats? This is Sophie's Choice. What is a voter to do when even the lesser of two evils is evil? Seccede?
The Democrats may be being blackmailed for the TWA 800 coverup under Clinton. That plane was shot down by a missile and so was either a homegrown or AQ terrorist attack. It was an election year, and if it was a terrorist attack this would have played into Republican hands, but it could well have been AQ since they had access to the stinger missiles used in Afghanistan.
Either way, Clinton had good reason to want this blamed on a non-terrorist event to make sure the Olympics were not affected and ensure he would be re-elected. Just a theory. They could also be controlled by fear that the Anthrax attacks induced after 9/11, only Democrats were targetted. Anyone trusting the one world government Rockefellers on intelligence matters is nuts. If he is a Democrat I am God.
A vote for anyone other than Paul or Kucinich is a vote for the status quo. If these traitors want to lead the country to it's destruction, let them do it as Republicans, and not as neo-con puppets dressed up as Democrats.
Pershaps the definition of "enemy combatant"
includes messing with shrub's thugery, so any member of Congress is but 1 or 2 votes away from gitmo?
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »
It is time to remove any so-called "Democrat" from office that has been a supporter of chimpy and the dicks policies. Howard Dean must act to remove them from office for us or resign himself. I call on any Democrat that has supportted any repukagain policy
to resign immediately. Hang Jane Harman! Get her out now.
The executive branch and now through their complicity both houses of congress along with our CIA run media are war criminals. Will someone arrest these creeps? Lawlessness runs rampant in DC.
The democrats story of being fooled was blown when the WMD's were not found. Impeachment should have happened at that time and withdrawal of our troops.
What does it say about religion when most of these people sponsoring this genocide claim to be Christians.
If Cindy replaced Pelosi she would be one of the most junior members of congress, not the leader. This would most likely be a first in politics in the US. Leaders do not lose in primary elections to an inexperienced challenger. Incumbents all over would poo their shorts in concern for their positions.
Politicians scared of the electorate are much better behaved - even bad ones. That is why we need some Cindys to win in every election.
Time has long past when the Democrats could be concidered enablers to the Executive crime family,they are and have been complicit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Al Gore in the 2000 election he willingly conceded even though he was clearly the winner,perhaps he knew that if he would have won he would have been offed by the Neocon gangsters so as to have their boy JOE LIEBERMAN running the country,or did you forget mr Nader 2000 that Joe is even a greater war monger than GW he was then and he still is now, put that in your pipe and smoke it mr Nader 2000,perhaps if you had voted for Nader we wouldn't have had GW !!!!!!
For what purpose does informing the "gang of 8" about torture serve when its so secret? Do those 8 members just sit there and scratch their genitals, and zip their mouths? Oversight?
If the corporatariat could be materialized in human form, it would have a red sock puppet on its right hand, and a blue sock puppet on its left. That in a nutshell encapsulates the principal difference between the Democrat and Republican parties.
One thing that's becoming increasingly clear is that the African National Congress was absolutely right in its belief that the Beast can never be brought to heel. It must be killed (in a purely figurative sense, of course). There can be no accommodation with tyrants, other than to negotiate the terms of their surrender. "Working within the system" was a non-starter from the standpoint of the ANC, and it should be for principled foes of this country's system of de facto economic apartheid as well.
Working within the confines of the oligarchy's rigged, compromised and hopelessly corrupted political system cannot possibly produce any outcome besides the perpetuation of the status quo. This whole quadrennial exercise in selecting a new Maximum Leader is nothing more than a contemptible dog-and-pony show for the benefit of the gullible masses. A tale told by a witless and idiot media, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
It seems to me that the following words of Frederick Douglass are just as prescient and relevant today as they were 150 years ago:
"Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle! Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either rods or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Clearly the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa ultimately found its voice and its focus, and was able to make such insistent and effective demands that the white power structure ultimately chose to bow to the inevitable. I can't help wondering if the problem we face in the US has mainly to do with a more formidable adversary, or a more timid, defused and unfocused opposition. Or perhaps a little of both.
The one thought I find somewhat comforting is that the grotesque excesses of the ruling clique will ultimately prove its undoing - at this point, perhaps the biggest challenge for self-styled progressive community is to organize itself in such a way as to be in a position to have a meaningful say in what comes next.
Red Harvest, the clarity of your thinking is both refreshing and comforting.
The "elections" of 2000 and 2004 demonstrate the futility of voting. The option left to us to affect change is a broadbased economic boycott. The present state of the economy is fragile and tenuous enough that even limited solidarity and participation would be enough to reach the tipping point.
Rice and beans aren't so bad if they're prepared well...
I agree there was Democratic complicity and that is/was terrible. Worse, there was complicity in the press. The press called what was happening "abuse," refusing to use the word torture. This inaccurate use of the word abuse led to a majority of Americans believing that there was no torture and created a vicious cycle.
It is incredible, but unsurprising, that the reflexive cultist mentality resurfaces with its mantra:
"There is only one way to change this. It is to challenge conservative Democrats in the primaries, and work to support progressive candidates and politicians within the Democratic Party."
The repetition of the same tactic that has been failing ever since Watergate is no answer, just as anyone who feels pain after closing their hand in a car door knows that more of the same means more of the same.
Ideas are the important things, not subservience to the Democratic Party. Anyone who'se mind is moved by evidence and reason can understand this.
Rockefeller and Pelosi have more allegiance to money & power, and therefore the necessity of maintaining good standing with the dominant paradigm, than with anything else. People with that kind of money belong in a club all their own. Their outer political garments is like a so-called convenience marriage. A convenience party.
In another thread people were commenting that after a certain point of very high personal wealth, the attraction/addition/need must become sociopathic (even psychotic) in nature, and these people need treatment. If it were sugar they were consuming, they'd be dead from diabetes.
Nader2000
If the Democrats wanted to win so badly that they had to stoop to try to smear another candidate for simply exercising his right in what is supposed to be a democracy,
then why didn't Gore, et al, and the party get a legal team and actually take seriously all the allegations of misconduct and possibly fraud in the 2000 election? It's not as if there was no evidence available to them.
The entire democratic leadership must be replaced. They are now all working for Mrs. Clinton to insure nothing changes. These people do not deserve to be trusted.
How many more times must we be reminded that these Democrats are not the answer to our problems. Don't support or give money to any of them until they start representing our views. Don't support or donate money to any of our colleges, churches or institutions of higher learning until they offer position statements regarding "preemptive" war or occupation of countries that never harmed us. Monetary support is important for any of these organizations and when it dries up they might listen.
Those Damn Republicrats.
To each and every person over the age of 18 who lives in San Francisco - Do you support torture? Do you think it is okay to torture other humans? If you vote for Pelosi in the next election, or, you don't vote for Cindy Sheehan then you support torture. If you stay at home and don't vote against Pelosi, or, for Cindy Sheehan then you support torture. It's that simple.
San Francisco do you support torture?
Ramsay
There you have it, folks. The two-party duopoly that are really united as one. So much for opposiion in Congress.
The majority of people could care less what is happening to our nation. The rest of us keep blogging to reinforce our points of view. Too each other, of course. Most simply aren't interested.
Spengler may have been right about his analysis on culture and civilizations after all.
IMPEACH PELOSI!
Kudos to: ODOCO, RICHSMITH 2, PAUL BRAMSCHER & KERNEL.
Although I found Nader's behavior in the 2000 election frustrating and his comments in regard to the total equivalence of Gore and Bush foolish, Nader2000 arguments denouncing Nader veer off into sophistry and delusion.
An article showing the duplicity of the Democratic Party in supporting and enabling Bush on torture, war, and the destruction of civil liberties elicits an attack on Nader????!!!!
Nader2000 writes:
"But I can't help but suspect this isn't what Glenn Greenwald wants us to do. He denies it, but his rhetoric sounds like he wants another round of Nader or some pipedream of a third party. That will never succeed; in fact, those who call for such a solution aid and abet the conservative forces within the Democratic Party, and thereby help the Right keep control in this country.
"Nader himself and his supporters are every bit as responsible for the torture as any of these Democrats are, because this kind of thing was a completely predictable consequence of letting George W. Bush win the White House."
"So did Ralph Nader, and so did his top co-conspirators, or they damn well should have, and that's why I hold them responsible."
Ralph Nader has had a long and remarkably distinguished career as a consumer advocate and champion of democratic rights (that's with a small "d"). He has every right to try to offer voters an alternative to the reprehensible leaders who command both parties.
Odoco is absolutely correct—renditions began under Clinton as did the draconian anti-terror bills.
To suggest that Nader—and his "co-conspirators"-- are now just as responsible for torture as Bush and his enablers in the Democratic Party (see Pelosi and Feinstein for starts) suggests a serious, serious breech with standards of logic, causation, ethics, and perhaps even the space-time continuum.
His/her very user name—Nader2000—suggests some kind of seriously neurotic obsession with Mr. Nader. I suggest-- Nader2000—that you let go of your obsessive hatred of Nader, rip off the blinders, and start taking a serious look at the horrific policies and ethics of your beloved Democratic heroes: why not start with key Democrats such as Feinstein, Rockefeller, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Hoyer, Rahm Emanuel, and Clinton—all of whom have aided in various ways the most grotesque of the Bush/Cheney policies on war, torture, and the evisceration of the Bill of Rights.
But wait, I know, it's all Ralph Nader's fault!
Why are there so many posts to this article and only two to the article on the subprime blowout? It is through Wall Street that the ruling class scum calls the shots, including in foreign and military policy.
Cindy is against torture. She has also not beholden to corporate donations / bribes like Pelosi is. She's a General Dynamics: http://opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.asp?ID=D000000165&Type=A&State=CA&Sort=A&Cycle=2008
and Lockheed Martin: http://opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.asp?ID=D000000104&Type=A&State=CA&Sort=A&Cycle=2008
girl.
San Francisco is not putting up a viable Republican contender. The winner will either be Pelosi or Sheehan. References to spoiler votes or lesser of two evils are not relevant.
Vote your conscience in San Francisco.