What IF we could telepathically
Imprint this message into the very synapses of 300 million?
________W A I T __ W E __ C A N __ D O __ T H I S ________

Let's choose a time, say 6 pm EST on 25-Dec-2007, and send a real

Christmas present to all of the World as well.

It doesn't matter (much) if your belief, faith and hope

of this is diminished by rational thought

- just do it ANYWAY (for the heck of it), as it certainly

cannot make anything any worse - RIGHT?

Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …

« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »

There's no concrete scientific evidence linking human carbon emission to the change in climate temperature. Don't get me wrong...it is a very good thing not to waste and to conserve, but the very fascist-elite you complain about have duped you into believing their misinformation. The current mainstream global warming position is an unproven hypothesis. The popularity of this concept is politically driven. The power elite will use this as another excuse to tax us and limit our freedom to travel. If the change in climate temperature is critical to our survival, don't you find it odd that we are not working to discover the truth? As always science will be supressed and manipulated by the power elite. The majority of environmental scientists (those not on the Bilderberg Group, CFR, Trilateral, Fed Reserve payroll) will tell you that the current hypothesis is unsubstantiated. If we believe the propoganda and allow our Federal Reserve foreign banking masters to tax us into serfdom and allow the fascist-elite controlled media to repeatedly deceive us, America's future is grim. Do not allow the elite to brainwash us with repeated lies masquearding as journalism.

Do not vote for CFR, Bilderberg backed candidates such as Clinton or Guiliani. We need an honest man who understands what peace is, and what freedom is. Freedom certainly isn't the Patriot Act, perpetual war and the rapid erosion of our Constitutional rights. Support politicians like Ron Paul. Push to restore the gold standard and dissolve the Federal Reserve. Fight hard to repeal the Patriot Act and HR6166 and all the other Globalist, big-brother, anti-freedom legislation. Fight to preserve the Constitution.

I pray to God to restore America back to a nation of free people.

Did you accidently post on the wrong string here with those blogs Bunny?

This is an article written By Cindy Sheehanabout waging peace, not war.

Some of these posts are whacked, sorry. My point was sort of opposite these. That we need to take stock of all the stuff we buy/use, etc. That's all. No weird mysticism or any glamor, sorry.

Everytime we use electricity in most places in this country we contribute to serious environmental devastation of the land where a group of poor people live, as well as the poisoning of these people.

And they can't afford airline tickets out of there for trips to study with a guru in India folks.

Is that a fact?

This discussion has become totally pointless.

And it didn't have much of a premise to begin with.

If anyone wants examples I can give them.

As a journalist with a big daily paper in Jersey I learned about what comes out of our coal reactors. Not to mention the destruction and hazards caused by coal mining. And as an independent interested person I saw the poisonous and frightening consequences of mining uranium firsthand by spending time with people whose source of water is now radioactive. This is the U.S...

Poor people in one PA community I researched lived and farmed in the shadow of two reactors that were spewing mercury and other toxins. For years they had failed inspection and nothing at all was done. The asthma rate in that area is a serious problem.

The list goes on.

CINDY and ALL OF US -- _ P E A C E _ I S _ P O S S I B L E _

It is within us to create it, consider that:

_ L O V E _ is like _ T R U S T _
which both are likened to a two-way street, where those at each end have both the ability to give and receive.

The "optimum" or unconditional flow of LOVE from one to another (and reflected back, see Namaste), occurs when when all four of these elements are positive:

Person A has ability to give
Person A has ability to receive
Person B has ability to give
Person B has ability to receive

Lao Tsu said in the Tao Te Ching that "He who does not trust enough will not be trusted"

As DREAMER TOO clarifies (elsewhere), we have _ C H O I C E _ , and it's our intention (think possibilities) that sets the stage for what we can create in each moment.

When we resort to habitual patterns, formulated as crude tools to insulate us from possible negative feelings (fear, hurt, alone, shame), we can no longer be present in the moment nor respond with all of our power and spirit aligned and congruent to the truths we profess.

Vulnerability and openness are part of both LOVE and TRUST, as otherwise we block out (or attenuate) overtures inward toward us, as well as throttling back on the potential overtures that we project outward to others.

Of course the art of unconditionally giving, receiving, loving and trusting - do of themselves soften the armaments thrown up against them - so that some goodness leaks through, around, and under to the recipient (however indifferent or evil).

Beyond the rational existence that we appear to occupy, consider the possibility that LOVE and TRUST can be spiritually projected (non-causally) anywhere and to anybody (and for anytime too).

The depth and power of our unleashed spirit is fathomless,
while sustained and illuminated iridescently
in the LIGHT of the ONE.

_ P E A C E _ I S _ P O S S I B L E _

Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »

"The human beast remained a beast and civilisation made it worst it seems. I don't know why, do you ?"

Yes (and No, as-posited). Want the Cliff-note's answer, or more-succinct?
[Succinct:]
Humans are indeed 'beasts', but Risen (more-accurately, 'rising' -- as expressed via generation-spanning and accumulative consciousness/awareness/learning). Western (and Eastern/other) Civilizations to-date are 'proof of that' -- but far from any absolute-proof (only indicative, partially, of Human-potential). Could we be approaching, and soon, a Malthusian 'End-Times'? Yes, and we probably-are [isn't that what makes this Trip (our lives-today) half the Fun?]. Can we Humans prove collectively capable of passing this 'life-form Test', by balancing needful-Success (which governs/applies to all life-forms) with appropriate-Mythos (which shares-governance/applies-equally to any higher-order life-form)?
Another 'Yes'.
The more difficult question to answer is: "Will we?"

I agree with Cindy for the most part. Especially the part about the elite corporate culture and how this culture is killing the poor and undermining the middle class.

As far as the poor are concerned, there are countless remaining colonial wars going on, ones that have been going on for decades, and centuries. Any member of an indigenous society can probably tell us about war. In Africa, South America and in the U.S. big business and government have colluded to attempt to bring about the extermination of indigenous people in areas with resources that are valuable to companies. There is no enforcable law requiring fair business practices or that protects these people.

I spent some time visiting a Native American nation this summer, where many people simply hate our guts, hate all the white people, not because we are white per se, but because every day they see us buying into, living and perpetuating a colonial mentality. Our mainstream culture that we take for granted has consequences for them that we never see. It renders their culture and their individual lives worthless in comparison with the resource extraction we require for our water and power. That is what is happening in reality. The Indians are still being belligerized, poisoned and starved off their own lands.

There is currently an indigenous group in Brazil which is holding people hostage. I am not surprised when I hear that things like this are happening. It seems obvious that more of these things will occur as people are given no other alternative but violence.

So I supposed what I am trying to get at is if we want peace the middle class can't simply live like we are living now. I am not making some vague ethical statement about how we should all depreive ourselves.

I mean if we are serious about peace, we have to honestly examine ourselves in relation to the causes and consequences of poverty, and then make changes to our own behavior. We need to really take a hard look at what we need, why in many respects we feel we need to live the way we do. For the sake of peace we need to examine the attitude of entitlement to buy whatever we have money for. How we use things without knowing or caring how they get here or where the stuff is going to end up. Because this all has causes and consequences, for the poor most of all.

I would likie to comment regarding the paragraph talking about the ways that our governs are assisting in "making the rich richer and the poor poorer". Here is a couple of thoughts to think about: What middle class are you talking about, do you mean the "hard working poor and suffering class" that supports the poor and the rich? Imagine when the poor (who are getting welfare assistance) were randomly tested for drugs to collect their checks that we work hard to give them without any other expectations other than to remain "poor" within the program guidelines of qualifing to be poor. Imagine if they were asked to contribute a "co-pay" when they go to their doctor that we pay for. I have to pay a co-pay and I pay for my insurance (which I can not get a pat on the back for even as a tax break). Imagine if those same people who receive food monthly (that those tax payers- pay for)were MADE to shop buying sale items only to feed their ever growing families. We the hard working poor class, can not afford to reproduce children without thinking about, "how could we afford to feed another mouth". Wouldn't it be nice if the system had santions on receiving free money to survive. In a country that can figure out how to send our "boys" to war, it can't figure out mass transit, state daycare and education for the poor who need welfare to survive, so that they can rise above and support themselves, like the rest of the POOR HARDWORKING CLASS does. What a way to keep the poor poor and happy. No need to do anything to receive, giving back is NOT expected. Yet we ROB from the elderly and the disabled and give to the healthy lazy ever able to work poor class. It insures votes to those who do NOT mention welfare reform.

Everytime there is "some kind of crisis" our insurance premiums go up to cover the loss that the insurance companies WILL NOT bare. I thought that is what we pay ins. for. We all know that there are crisis yearly, don't they budget for it or is it easier to just squeeze the working poor class budget instead? Funny how the rich control/direct our stock prices for their benefit. Most of us, don't even have stocks because we can't afford them. So much attention paid to what the rich peoples loss' maybe for one day. What about the "hard working poor class" loss' week after week and year after year?

Thought for the day: What if everyone had to fill out the same short form tax return including the rich and the very poor (who does not have to even think about filing taxes) I wounder what the extra annual tax revenue would be for the IRS? About two weeks ago a billionaire went on TV and compared his taxes that he paid and the taxes his receptioist paid, on a percent basis- she paid double. Well, can you imagine what the other rich people said about him for doing this? Interesting.

Also, why do we need the language of spanish as an option? My ancestors HAD to learn english and be proud to be an AMERICAN and learn a trade or read a book! How much tax dollars have we spent on this bright idea and who's idea was it and why?

I am NOT against any race or ethic group. There is good and TRASH in every race, color, creed, social status, government level and so forth and so on. We are all made the same. Isn't it time we are all treated the same? Maybe the "poor hardworking class" would be able to spend more time with their children instead of having to work many jobs to even be able to put their families in safe AFFORDABLE homes and have the time to throw a ball in the back yard with their children!

Common sense creates "common" wealth and that will bring world peace of "mind", world love and respect and pride. That is what we have been forced to give up in our state of war on our own land. It is time to bring back our ancestors way of life, and take our country back and give it to those who deserve and want to be proud to be an American.

Thank you for this article.

Peace is a word accompanied by written rules on a piece of paper.
Like democracy, it's never been used yet.

The human race like to dream about a beautiful world built the way the piece of paper says but, apparently, it can't.

The human beast remained a beast and civilisation made it worst it seems. I don't know why, do you ?

Death is all-about Peace.
Life is all-about struggle&change.
All Life trends-towards Success -- while conscious-Life, individually or socially, trends-towards the duality of Success and Mythos....

'Peace' is rarely-achieved, even among Peace-minded people in a Peace-oriented discussion Forum while posting with a Peaceful-intent...[sigh]
'War' is most often the result of Peace-seeking Ideologues wanting primarily Peace-on-Their-Terms...[usually involving an endlessly-growing Piece of what any-others have...]

Peace without Justice is at best an illusion made possible by ignorance, at worst a delusion made possible by hypocrisy.

Okay Felix, there you came across as a nice man. Yes I took it as you wrote it, and felt as if you were talking down to me as if I were a child. You had asked for some opinions and I offered mine. I stand by them as that is how it is.

On another string today, I advoate we mist have a global get together of world leaders to solve the global warming problem. A truce of all the world's governments if you will. Without that, the global warming problem will not be solved in time to avert a world wide disaster. Not a world order of laws, a geuine meeting of the minds with no stupid politics and firm sensible action taken now, before it is too late. That is the only solution I see. But I do not see it will occur. That is how it is. I also believe we have gone wayoff of the subject here. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, that happens at times and we can be friends. __ I love people. ~Peace~

Peace is respecting the other guys rights enough to leave him alone unless he is hurting others.

Hello friend Kem Patrick,

My invitation for you to "join the human race" was meant in jest and not as the insult as which you have taken it. I apologize if I offended you, and recognize full well that you are a human being more thoughtful than most. I am sorry that I made you so angry that you felt that you had to address me as naive, lonely, in need of a friend, and finally a jerk. I don't think I gave you any reason for doing that and if I did I apologize. I certainly have no intent to call you any such names.

I do agree with you about the wonder and the importance of the U.S. Constitution, of which I have always been an ardent admirer and advocate. (In sixth grade elementary school, I received an award of $50 -- a fair amount of money then -- and a trip to Springfield, IL to meet Governor Henry Horner, for having won third place in an essay contest on the subject "What the Constitution of the United States Means to Me.")

Moreover, I have come to greatly admire the group of Founding Fathers who met in Philadelphia centuries ago, thrashed out this great and innovative document, and then managed to convince their countrymen and women to adopt it. These Founders recognized that the warring Colonies could not exist much longer under the weak Articles of Confederation, and that a strong central government was required. These men knew their history back to the ancient Greeks, they understood clearly the potential pitfalls of a strong central government, and they wrote into the Constitution adequate checks and balances to minimize the risk of the Nation descending into dictatorship.

I sincerely believe (and feel quite certain that you will disagree violently with this view) that if those Founders were here today they would be repeating their grand experiment on a world wide scale. They would provide the leadership that this Nation presently so woefully lacks.

But I am loath to argue with you any more as you seem to get quite emotionally involved -- that is not the purpose of the exercise!

With best regards. And let's call it quits while we are still friends.

Felix.

Seasons Greetings to all of you fellow planetarians. Just a reminder and something to ponder with this Christmas. The History Channel has a good documentary on the 'Christmas Truce of 1914', during "the war to end all wars".

goodwordswan; Thanks for the post. I get FREESPEECH TV and saw some of it. We certainly need to live in harmony with Nature. Everywhere I go, people are on the cell phones, doing all sorts of things. Even at the beach, in the mountains, the woods. So much for solitude. I guess it will go the way of the phone booth.

We have a rule of law here in America. It is the SUPREME law of the land, our Constitution. We have a ruler and a Congress who won't obey that law. How could any expect to have a world wide set of rules and laws and expect any to obey. We have the Geneva Conventions and it is totally ignored every single day and nothng is done about it. There are international laws and they are ignored daily also. ___ Wake up SIGSAG,

If we had a global set of laws and a country refused to obey them, what would you suggest we do, start a war? I have ideals and dreams too, but I won't insult someone who disagrees with my 'personal dreams'. I argue when they disagree with facts of life and never insult first unless it is in a humorous jest.

In my blog at Wildflower Stew http://goodwordswan.wildflowerstew.com about living in harmony with the natural world, I decided to celebrate the season by posting the very funny, very to-the-point video "The Story of Stuff" produced by Free Range Studio (of The Meatrix fame). Imagine - no possessions!

SIGSEP, I suspected you wrote your first three blogs, beggig for an argument and my suspicions have been confirmed. Well since I don't have anything better to do when I'm not working on my personel writing, I'll argue with you.

First, I get the impression you really would not like any to answer you, addressing you as SIGSEP, and you immediately let me know your actual name is Felix. Well Felix, if that is what you desire, use your name up top when you post and you won't be annoyed.

You say 'you disagree' that our planet is settled by many different races and tribes, SIGSEP, with different cultures of humanity, who speak different languages, have different religions and beliefs, have protected borders and don't allow others to just amble in. Most by far are war like and have armies they cannot reallly afford. Many have rulers who shit onthe average citizen ad steal their wealth to live like kings and don't want to get along with any unless there is a profit. Many also want to control the entire worlds natural resources. ( not counting America there on the 'protected' borders comment)

You disagree SIGSEP that we don't have people in power all over the world, in almost every nation, who are selfish, down right evil, greedy monsters, devils if you will? You don't believe the UN is generally a waste of time and energy by and large. I won't say the UN has not done some good over the years, the UN has certainly not been able to accomplish the intendded goals it was originally set up to accomplish, and that is because of the reasons I gave in the first place.

So if you disagree with me on that SIGSEP, you are just wishing to argue for no good reason, or you can't face reality, or you are either foolish or stupid, __ for what I wrote is correct and is as plain as day and an undisputable fact of life. So to argue that is silly and a waste of time, so regardless of what you may reply with, as far as I'm concerned you'll be writing to yourself.

Finally SEGSAP, why did you intentionally insult me, by saying I'm not a membr of the human race? Why paste that false picture of me for others to read here? I replied to you to be nice, with my honest opinins, figuring perhaps you were just a naive soul, that maybe never left their room and was lonely and wanted a friend. Of course I suspected you were an jerk and I was correct.

You did manage to detract from a fine article, written by Cindy Sheehan about peace. ~~ Bye SIGSAP. ~~piece~~

Kem Patrick,

I appreciate your reply even if I don't quite agree with its conclusions. In re:

"SIGSEP, [my actual name is Felix] I am certain your post was read by many. I believe the reason no one has replied, is because what you propose is perhaps a perfect solution in your mind, but it is not viable in a world of divided nations, with many different languages, beliefs and cultured habits, that have been implanted for more than 4,000 years.

A perfect example is the United Nations. It should be named the Un-united nations."

If what you say were a full description of the real situation, then then we would be in even greater trouble than I had thought. Because my suggesions constitute not "a perfect solution" to our problems but the only one available to us. Either we keep our current "war system" based on "might makes right" and court the ultimate disaster, or we develop a global rule of law that would have a chance make that system obsolete.

No Kem, I am not underestimating the difficulties involved or the time it might take. But as the great Norman Cousins has often said, human beings do have both the wisdom and the compassion to do what they must do if we are to survive.

The fact is that there is not a person in the world who knows how much time is still given to the us to save ourselves. We can argue only that the more difficult the task at hand, and the longer it might take to complete, the sooner we had better get started.

The last two sentences of a well-known speech of President Kennedy are highly appropriate in that context:

". . . we must think and act not only for the moment but for our time. I am reminded of the story of the great French Marshal Lyautey, who once asked his gardener to plant a tree. The gardener objected that the tree was slow-growing and would not reach maturity for a hundred years. The Marshal replied, 'In that case, there is no time to lose, plant it this afternoon.'

"Today a world of knowledge -- a world of cooperation and a just and lasting peace may be years away. But we have no time to lose. Let us plant our trees this afternoon."

Thus spoke President John F. Kennedy in his address at the University of California, Berkeley, March 23, 1962. See Public Papers of the Presidents: 1962, p. 266.

Come and join the human race Kem. All is not lost -- yet.

Felix.

Cindy for President - you go girl!

Where was Yoko Ono's campaign for peace when she married John Lennon and caused so much trouble for the Beatles that they disbanded?

When you talk the talk, you should walk the walk.

SIGSEP, I am certain your post was read by many. I believe the reason no one has replied, is because what you propose is perhaps a perfect solution in your mind, but it is not viable in a world of divided nations, with many different languages, beliefs and cultured habits, that have been implanted for more than 4,000 years.

A perfect example is the United Nations. It should be named the Un-united nations.

There truly are demons among us, by the ability to converse well and often have excellent education and contacts with the elite, by deception and theft, they often gain the role of being leaders in high places in both the busines and political world.

Greed, pride and jealousy, combined with the love of money are some of their deadly sins and many of our leaders and CEOs have those attributes in spades. F%%k-up and move up is an apt phrase in all areas of life.

So to have any chance in hell of your civil, just and honest opinions on that subject ever having a ice cubes chance in Hell, one would literally have to go to Hell and evict the current head hog.

Now do not feel abandoned or hurt, that no one responded. No one wished to crush your good thoughts with some sorry ass comments such as mine and say to you, ___ how it really is.

Here is a brief history of the war mongers and what we have to do to take control away from them:

http://www.sonic.net/~taryfast/destruction.html

I was unable to edit the previous post, which should have read as follows:

22 posts ago, I submitted a short discussion that began as follows:

"Thank you Cindy Sheehan for so beautifully addressing the most serious of all issues facing humankind. And thank you to all the contributors who have elaborated and extended Cindy's thoughts.

"I find it distressing, however, that no one has thought to include the single issue that, more than anything else, must be addressed if we are to establish world peace:"

I proceeded to write about the terrifying circumstance that we the citizens of this Planet currently have next to nothing in place that would enable us to resolve international disputes without resort to the threat of war and/or war itself. As noted by Albert Einstein, Bertrand Russell, and others, if we wish for humanity (ourselves) to survive longer term, the abolishment of war is absolutely imperative. To do it we must put in place globally an at least somewhat civilized society. A civilized society I would define to be a society that has learned to govern its affairs through effective, just, and democratic law that applies to each citizen. And that means the establishment of legislative, executive, and judicial institutions at the world level.

After discussing the urgency of this problem, I finished with a suggestion for some first steps that could be taken in the near future.

I expected that responses to my post would fall into two categories, substantial agreement and substantial disagreement. So far, I have been totally wrong: it would appear that no-one has even bothered to read my post. Is the prospect of real peace (other than talking about it) THAT unimportant to the peace community?

With great disappointment but with some remaining hope that some good soul might still answer,

Felix Rosenthal.

22 posts ago, I submitted a short discussion that began as follows:

(quote)
Thank you Cindy Sheehan for so beautifully addressing the most serious of all issues facing humankind. And thank you to all the contributors who have elaborated and extended Cindy's thoughts.

I find it distressing, however, that no one has thought to include the single issue that, more than anything else, must be addressed if we are to establish world peace:"
(end quote)

I proceeded to write about the terrifying circumstance that we the citizens of this Planet currently have next to nothing in place that would enable us to resolve international disputes without resort to the threat of war and/or war itself. As noted by Albert Einstein, Bertrand Russell, and others, if we wish for humanity (ourselves) to survive longer term, the abolishment of war is absolutely imperative. To do it we must put in place globally an at least somewhat civilized society. A civilized society I would define to be a society that has learned to govern its affairs through effective, just, and democratic law that applies to each citizen. And that means the establishment of legislative, executive, and judicial institutions at the world level.

After discussing the urgency of this problem, I finished with a suggestion for some first steps that could be taken in the near future.

I expected that responses to my post would fall into two categories, substantial agreement and substantial disagreement. So far, I have been totally wrong: it would appear that no-one has even bothered to read my post. Is the prospect of real peace (other than talking about it) THAT unimportant to the peace community?

With great disappointment but with some remaining hope that some good soul might still answer,

Felix Rosenthal.

I strongly agree with the post about staging a celebrity packed promo for Dennis Kucinich. He will NOT get air time or promotion from any of the corporate media outlets, so it is up to the 'people' who can influence the masses. Sean Penn recently posted a lengthy article in favor of Dennis Kucinich for President. He and others could do much to enhance the Kucinich campaign.

And as for the poster above here who disliked the reference to Dennis being a vegan, well, I'm certain he doesn't insist this the only way to bring about peace. He is very inclusive and his choice is on a personal level for his health, including his belief that meat, as it is produced and transported today harms the environment. There are better ways to produce meat and I'm sure he would explore and promote studies to find a solution that best fits the needs of the carnivores.

Sanger4 and Paul Bramscher; Yes indeed. You both stated the truth of the matter quite eloquently.

At one of the anti-war marches earlier this year, a sign said,

"KILL ONE PERSON, IT"S MURDER. KILL THOUSANDS AND IT'S FOREIGN POLICY!"

True anarchy is actually democratic when practiced. No "hail to the chief" nonsense.

Hi Cindy:

I was in church at 11:15. I don't know if any of us had read this article, but we were at peace for few moments.

I think you nailed it in paragraph 6. Along with Mr. Jefferson's ammendments to the Constitution.

I have always believed our constitution and freedoms would give us peace and help achieve peace world wide. "Pax Americana". Its difficult living though this era where the lucky ones have peace, but our government has abused its moral authority abroad with what is essentially colonialism, and at home with loss of rights and a threatened evangelical theocracy. Our working midddle class is seeing its good jobs leave the country and our money become worthless. Our inner city black youth killing each other almost for sport. Many of these problems are due to our own selfishness, individually and corporate.

The biggest barrier to international or regional peace has always been population growth and limited resources. We had a short golden age from 1945 to 1995 or so when things got better each year for most people around the world, but we are now on the biggest resource/environment/ population collision course in history.

My peace is in trying to live a more Christ-like life, loving my neighbor as myself, trying to forgive bin-Laden for what he did, hoping we will be forgiven for our terrible, terrible mistake in Iraq, and doing what I can to get our government to focus on peaceful solutions to problems at home and abroad.

Best wishes for everything you are tyring to get accomplished.

The resource/power excluders (certain managers, the elite, warmongers, authoritarians, etc.) are, in a sense, organized thieves against social backdrop. If they did what they did as lone individuals, they'd be quickly spotted and imprisoned. But they're are able to capitalize on our worst qualities (selfishness, greed, fear, apathy, xenophobias, etc.) and rise the pyramid.

There's a special term in the philosophy of mind called "intentionality". It's basically the notion that emotions, mental states, etc. are "about" something. Sort of like the relationship between subject and object, or verb and indrect object.

So the sociopathic leader needs strife, struggle, challenge, denial, fear, etc. or else he has no purpose -- and we'd have the perfect anarchic society (not lawlessness, but rather bottom-up emergent "rules" which suit real -- not manufactured -- needs, and not an iota more than that.

Peace is not at all possible when the "social IQ" is well below the triple-digits.

War comes from the exclusion of others from the bounty of the earth which is the birthright of all earth citizens. When we learn to share the resources of our earth equally then will we see the cessation of war. When we assure the delivery to all citizens their basic needs; clean safe water, shelter, health care, food & education the need for war will disappear.

If you want to see an excemplry of Love and Responsibility, I recomment the Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada starring Toomy Lee Jones - not exhibiting in uuplifting words but exhibiting responsibility and a uplifting love to a fellow human.

I never read it at one sitting, I read a few chapters and put it away for awhile.

I did find it much better and easier to digest, understnad and find sensible, than reading on one of ME ALSO TOOOOOS posts.

Oh Me Tu Also, I never have tried Viagara BTW, a friend of ours uses the powdered form and mixes it in his scotch and water. It's a genuine high ball he claims. The beans don't cause a big belly, a fat ass and love handles.__ Over doing cheeze will. The beans supply a fair ammount of natural gas and that's better than burning oil. I wear a rubber bladder and trap it. Of course your hot air would do the same, Just stretch a condom over your head. You could post with belief, you were one of the Common Dreams big pricks.

KEM PATRICK; I should have known better. Sorry about that. Cindy was correct to use the words war and peace in the same sentences. War and Peace are antonymous in her article and makes sense to me.

Did it sell? Literary scholars say it is one of the greatest novels ever written and is still being read around the world. I have a friend who once wrote a high school paper on it and read it twice since then. When I was still in my teens, I got about half-way through it. One of these days, I may start reading it again.

" I"m going t repeat MY definition of what I believe LOVE is, because I like it.
"Love is when we care more for someone else, than we do for ourselves".
Greater LOVE hath no man, than he lay down his life for another. One can love themself and do that, I've seen it happen in fact."

I've seen it, too (even the beneficiary of it, once). But I took Dumbo's point differently. Too many believe traditional-Wars are begun for the benefit of 'greedy leaders' who despise/belittle other's-sacrifices because they "love themselves, overmuch".
The truth is far-from that...most warmongers/monopolists/'realists' in-fact are actually motivated by their self-hate (leading to envy of others, and over-focus upon symbols of 'success' that they see 'simple'-others enjoying in abundance). They 'over-compensate' to chase their 'Success', and trample all in their way -- but what started them on that sorry-path was a 'lack of regard for themselves'. Self-love is a pre-requisite to love-of-others (which I think you well-know -- but you didn't make it plain, initially...)

Anyway, enjoy all opportunity for love-of-others (but cut-back on that Viagra, d00d! ...after all and as noted elsewhere, with you eating those-beans rather than Kentucky-cheese, you'll maybe live much-longer than you thought-possible...maybe the 'red-pill', instead?).
And, congratulations on wading-through W&P at-least three times [I barely-managed once -- Dostoevsky more my cup-o'-Russki tea].

eileen; You're a 'four leaf clover'. I just checked the website and will buy the books for our peace group's library.

Most impressive too me was the visual maps of Palestine and how the 'Lebensraum' of Jewish migration in the region has squeezed the Palestinians out to make room for Israeli 'settlements'.

Vanunu is a world-class hero and was interviewed by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! when he was released from prision for telling the truth. In fact, she had him on a second time when he was threatened by the dictators in Tel Aviv not to speak to the press.

Mordechai has extraordinary courage and is someone to be admired. Thank you Eileen and your group for wonderful, honest reporting!

Did it sell PEACEMAN, or did people say it was not sensible to use the two words together in the same phrase and therefore did not read it? If so, then was Cindy also wrong to do that?

I knew the title and in fact once wrote a paper on it in high school and have read it twice since. I was attempting to chastise the ones here in a sarcastic manner, who stated Cindy was incorrect to use the words war and peace in the same sentences.

KEM PATRICK; The great epic novel you are referring to is "WAR AND PEACE", written by Leo Tolstoy, about several Russian families during the Napoleonic Wars in the early 19th century.

Leaders must be led!

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...I believe that as soon as people want peace in the world they can have it. The only trouble is they are not aware they can get it."John Lennon

On 9/18/04 in London, Yoko Ono awarded Mordechai Vanunu that years "Give Me Some Truth" award.

Vanunu told the world the truth in 1986 that Israel had gone nuclear and was sentenced to 18 years in jail, most of it in solitary.

Although 'freed' in 2004, Vanunu is forbidden to leave Jerusalem and speak to foreigners.

On January 8, 2008, Vanunu's appeal fighting against 6 months in jail for speaking to foreign professional media in 2004 begins.

This American civilian journalist has been to Jerusalem five times since June 2005.

I video taped some of my 2005, 2006 conversations with Vanunu and have also been following his historic year and a half long FREEDOM of SPEECH TRIAL, that the USA MSM ignores.

My truth seeking interviews were taped in the spirit of Article 19, of the UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, which Israel agreed to uphold and in fact, was contingent upon their statehood.

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

Lennon endured the paranoia of Nixon and the FBI because he was nonviolent and truth full.

Vanunu continues to endure the paranoia in the ethnocracy of Israel.

"30 Minutes with Vanunu" taped in 2006 and Vanunu's 2005 message to USA Christians and Bush are freely streaming on WAWA:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/

Cindy,

Use your clout to contact Yoko to start a peace concert for Kucinich - the Peace President. We absolutely cannot sit around and let the opportunity of a lifetime slip through our fingers because Wolf Blitzer and Tim Russert break his balls. Kucinich is doing everything he possibly can to save the world. The least we can do is help him help us. Concerts have been organized for lesser things than saving the world. Clapton, Young, Dixie Chicks, Fogarty, Mellencamp, Petty, Nelson, McCartney, Nora Jones - come on, help me out here. I know there's more.

Peace is the single greatest threat to any war-time economy.

Peace is also the prime threat to any authoritarian. If we had peace, we wouldn't need leaders.

I wish someone would give me lessons on how to use this edit function properly.

I"m going t repeat MY definition of what I believe LOVE is, because I like it.

"Love is when we care more for someone else, than we do for ourselves".

Greater LOVE hath no man, than he lay down his life for another. One can love themself and do that, I've seen it happen in fact.

I do believe I have already posted that very comment DUMBO. Guess you missed it, or perhaps you have a reading comp problem. Or, are you giving ethics lessons to the old fart too. Thank you, if that is your intent.

Whatever, I guess I should be sorry that I posted that comment and gave such a silly answer to the question of, what is peace, because you are the second Dumbo who explained that I needed help and should love myself. If you are familiar with my rants here at CD, you might tend to believe, I don't really have a problenm with that. Besides, I got a little peace earlier this evening and we were both quite satisfied. I may be an antique dodo, but I've been told I'm still good in bed.

@ Kem:

Peace is also about loving YOURSELF. Many people think that they need to receive something from other people to feel "happy" and "loved". If they dont get that for free, they start to TAKE it from others. Because nobody told them, that first of all, each person is responsible for its own life.

Therefore "loving yourself" is as important as "loving the others."

I wonder why any would be critical of what Cindy wrote regardng the words peace and war in the same sentences and paragraphs?

I recall some guy from Russia, I believe it was a Russian, who penned a novel with a title using those same two words, peace and war. I forget the exact title of his book and the authors name. It seems as if the novel sold a few copies however. Maybe I'm wrong the book was not a recent release.

Anyway, I thought Cindy's article was both thought provoking and sent a good message. __ Maybe I missed something, I'm easily confused.

Peace is attained and kept by one rule of thumb: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Too simple of course. That is why we need leaders like Kucinich and Sheehan. And advocates of peace like Yoko Ono. I would have included John but he is dead - a result of someone not abiding by the golden rule.

There can be no peace without respect for all life. In America today the culture is one of death. Death for profit, death for convenience, death for entertainment, death seems the answer to all problems. A culture of death will never find peace. Respect for all life is the path to peace.

Peace isn't well defined in our culture, and we lack enough people interested in seeking deeper meaning. The Navajo "hozho". The social version of the Buddhist nirvana, nirvana in the aggregate.

Peace has been defined many times by mystics, philosophers and intellectuals over the eons. The sad reality that the base volk generally ignore them is why a few among them rise to become warmongers.

cindyforcongress.org

Can't believe it. 57 comments and no one posted this.

Beautiful thing, Yoko. Beautiful. Nice to see the Kucinich video in there, too.

Peace? Well, since only the poor fight in wars, I guess peace is a state where the poor are unpoor enough so that they think the very idea of war is too ridiculous to entertain. That is, without poverty there can be no war. So, no poverty, no war.

Who wants to fight when they've got a decent job, their family is well-fed and their future is bright? Give people work, food, shelter, health care and a good environment and Lockheed Martin and the ilk would be out of business.

ezeflyer: I like your new approach. The quotes are GREAT! But please cut the size down. It's hard to get through them all.

Love ya

Peace from a Republican perspective...

The lasting rest in the embrace of death.

Hang in there, Cindy!

'principles of integrity and truth, compassion, empathy, kindness, courage for justice, fairness, and the dignity and well-being of all.'

Cee, these are precisely the characteristics we cannot find among the lice that infest the head of our government. Time for the Raid!

Cindy - Sometime in June or July, 2004, four months after Casey's tragic death in Iraq, you and I had regular e-mail exchanges after I had written you in response to a letter you'd written about Casey which was circulating on the internet.

Somewhere in that time frame until you became a national [and now international] peace activist icon, I spoke occasionally of my vision of a PEOPLE'S PLANETARY ALLIANCE.

Just today before I read your essay, I read today's CD headline article above, "World Climate Change Protests Kick Off." Then I posted a message about initiating a PEOPLE'S PLANETARY ALLIANCE. It is time.

My complete response to the above headline article is in the Comment Section following "World Climate Change Protests" as #10, but I include an excerpt here. Hope you'll read the rest and pass it on.

>>Overall, perhaps a mere thousand individuals with wealth, power and the desire to control hold sway over 6.5[+or-] billion of us. That's pure-d NUTZ! considering what is being done to or not being done for too many of us and the planet earth itself which is our collective singular home in this lifetime. So let's NOT TAKE IT ANYMORE. Let's unite … WE THE PEOPLE … and begin to reclaim our home and our lives.

It is time for people everywhere to step up to the plate.

If you can vision wholistically and want to talk about a PEOPLE'S PLANETARY ALLIANCE of interconnected plans of action--many already in place and many that can be initiated--plans of action that people can participate in, individually and collectively, at any level of their current abilities: CeeMiraclesPPA@aol.com<<

**********

It IS time for all of us who want to help bring peace to this torn-up world and save this home planet of ours before it is too late to unite globally--organizations and individuals both--as global citizens of a PEOPLE'S PLANETARY ALLIANCE.

WHAT IS PEACE? Peace must start within each of us, and as so many of your actions, Cindy, be based on principles of integrity and truth, compassion, empathy, kindness, courage for justice, fairness, and the dignity and well-being of all.

Ultimately it is We the People who have to bring peace to this planet. So why not a PEOPLE'S PLANETARY ALLIANCE? It's time has come.

[Best in your California run, Cindy - c/m]

CeeMiraclesPPA@aol.com

FrederickJohnson December 8th, 2007 4:53 pm -- Arvy ... If you're too lazy and want to be a commie, then trot your ass over to China and learn some lessons. ...

Sorry. I'm too lazy to travel such a long distance just to learn about being a commie. Besides, the pseudo-democratic and pseudo-Christian examples closer home are much more instructive.

GOT METTA -- An excellent thoughtfully enhancing understanding definition of PEACE, thank you.

"Peace is not the absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, and justice."

ZYDECO -- You're exactly on my wavelength herein, thank you for expressing the transcendental ideas, where you say : "Peace is an absolute. It was present before us, is present during us, and will be present after we are long gone. … would better serve herself by focusing on Peace as a presence."

In my terms, I would call PEACE a state of BE'ingness (and presence is that state where ONE is where another IS - see Namaste), as is JOY, that individuals (and societies which are collections of people) don't really feel, it is something elusive that they just ARE. QUALITY is similarly elusive, though nonetheless generally recognizable, and hard to define in purely objective terms.

I've previously provided a three-fold linkage between the underlying BEING, which provides the foundation for taking action in the world by DOING, which then provides us results by HAVING (something). Please follow this link here.

The danger of propaganda is the purposeful dissociation between the 'apparent' desirable final result (HAVE), and the required actions (DO), that are intrinsically unavailable (the deception), unless one becomes congruent and aligned with the necessary core belief of BEING.

Does filling the SUV and McMasion [HAVING] with consumptive things bring JOY to a Family? Or does a family BEING together and going to a shelter and sharing experiences of giving to those less fortunate, loving them unconditionally (not blaming them for their poverty) bring this forth?

Does working hard, with many long extra hours to afford more luxuries [DOING], bring peace and joy to a family? Or does cutting back irrelevant excesses and spending more quality time BEING together create connection and bountifully rich experiences to savor latter in life (w/o regrets)?

We have a sacred and transcendental responsibility to this world and all of it's peoples, to re-establish a sustainable context that cradles and nourishes the necessary BEINGness to create PEACE.

While in some manner, BE'ingness can be described in words, the closest analogy we have is from the Bible, and the Sermon on the mount, where Jesus says: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." (Matthew 5:38-42, NIV)

A parallel version is offered in the Sermon on the Plain in the Gospel of Luke:"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you." (Luke 6:27-31. NIV)

I submit that these ideas go much further than mere pacifism and non-violence, but are about connecting to that holy place within us that BEING IS.

Two other examples may be useful for illustration, where the idea of a life boat is explored in this link and then how our language creates our own context in every thought and moment (which we do control):

1. Here, copy and paste please (www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/07/5689/?jal_edit_comments#comment-152810) along with
(www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/22/5389/?jal_edit_comments#comment-143426).

2. Here, copy and paste please (www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/07/5677/?jal_edit_comments#comment-152693) along with (www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/21/5376/?jal_edit_comments#comment-142102), and (www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/24/5410/?jal_edit_comments#comment-143117)

What we need is LOVE, per these link (http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/29/5499/?jal_edit_comments#comment-147765)

Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed »

I think I'll take a shower now, shave and swab on some deoderant, brush my teeth, power the sheets with a little Oscar D larente, offer my bride some good wine and cheeze and then snuggle up and have a peace.

When Jesus asked God to forgive his persecutors as he hung in excruciating agony on a cross, there was peace.

When Buddhist monks in Burma remained committed to non-violence, even as soldiers lined them up and smashed their skulls into brick walls, one by one, there was peace.

When a Tibetan monk who spent years in a Chinese prison was asked what his greatest fear had been, and he replied "the fear that I would lose compassion for my captors", there was peace.

"'Peace, Peace' when there is no peace"

War is over
If you want it

http://www.imaginepeace.com/news.html

jesus christ almighty good god in heaven.

Peace is conversation and discussion, without the m**f**ing angry and hurtful words, without the SHOUTING.

Peace is inside you if you try to find it. Peace is outside and it can find you.

Peace is beauty. Have you heard Bryn Terfel's version of "Goin' Home" by Dvorak? Now that's beauty and it makes me peaceful.

Well, that's the best I can do today. Peace to all of you and your loved ones.

Peace is the marriage of the people and the planet, with all attendant vows.

-- Anonymous

Peace comes from being able to contribute the best that we have, and all that we are, toward creating a world that supports everyone. But it is also securing the space for others to contribute the best that they have and all that they are.

-- Hafsat Abiola

The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us.

-- Black Elk (1863-1950)

There is no time left for anything but to make peacework a dimension of our every waking activity.

-- Elise Boulding

Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace.

-- Buddha (560-483 B.C.)

Democracy is an objective. Democratization is a process. Democratization serves the cause of peace because it offers the possibility of justice and of progressive change without force.

-- Boutros Boutros-Ghali

Peace, to have meaning for many who have only known suffering in both peace and war, must be translated into bread or rice, shelter, health and education, as well as freedom and human dignity.

-- Ralph Johnson Bunche (1904-1971)

Do you know what astonished me most in the world? The inability of force to create anything. In the long run the sword is always beaten by the spirit. Soldiers usually win battles and generals get the credit for them. You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war. If they want peace, nations should avoid the pin-pricks that precede cannon shots.

-- Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

-- Albert Camus (1913-1960)

We know how to organize warfare, but do we know how to act when confronted with peace?

-- Jacques-Yves Cousteau (1910-1997)

Human Beings, indeed all sentient beings, have the right to pursue happiness and live in peace and freedom.

-- The XIVth Dalai Lama

Peace, in the sense of the absence of war, is of little value to someone who is dying of hunger or cold. It will not remove the pain of torture inflicted on a prisoner of conscience. It does not comfort those who have lost their loved ones in floods caused by senseless deforestation in a neighboring country. Peace can only last where human rights are respected, where people are fed, and where individuals and nations are free.

-- The XIVth Dalai Lama

If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.

-- Moshe Dayan (1915-1981)

Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.

-- Albert Einstein (1979-1955)

I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

-- Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890-1969)

Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding.

-- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

The most disadvantageous peace is better than the most just war.

-- Desiderius Erasmus (1469-1536)

There was never a good war or a bad peace.

-- Ben Franklin (1706-1790)

It is possible to live in peace.

-- Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)

"Neither enemy faces, nor the mothers that love them, come to mind when one is thinking of nothing but endeavouring to survive. Philosophising about war is useless under fire."
Linda Berdoll

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"
Mahatma Gandhi

"Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
Mao Tse-Tung

"The way to win an atomic war is to make certain it never starts."
Omar Bradley

"Either war is obsolete or men are."
R. Buckminster Fuller

"It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it."
Robert E. Lee

"One day President Roosevelt told me that he was asking publicly for suggestions about what the war (WW II) should be called. I said at once 'The Unnecessary War'."
Sir Winston Churchill

"Wars teach us not to love our enemies, but to hate our allies."
W. L. George

ALASKANFRONT__There is absolutly no connection between being a vegan and desiring peace. That is probably the only thing I disagree with Dennis K on, however it is his business what he eats. I think that is even a dumber reason to vote for someone than whether they have the proper religion or not. Stop and think, if you want Dennis to get votes then do not alienate thousands of cattle, hog and sheep raisers as most of them would not think of voting for a vegan. You vegans should just eat what you want and leave meat eaters alone as thay will continue to use animals for food from now on. Another stupid thing to divide people over nothing.

you see all we were saying is give the discussion a chance for peacefulness, in the light of, and in keeping in the spirit of the article being discussed.

instead what we get is continuing violence.

apparently, insecurities rule the world still to this day.

KEM PATRICK --

Yes, I feel Cindy is completely wrong when she says that the question "what is peace" begs the question "what is war."

If you regard anything I wrote as "lesson" or "casting pearls," I humbly thank you and I'm quite certain you don't consider yourself swine (smile).

maxpayne,

Most losers in this forum hardly make any sense but you stand out. The truth is we need to stop bashing one another on social issues and get to the real issues which matter such as peace, economic stability, general security and privacy rights, etc ...

"And who, pray tell, will do that in today's society of two-wage-slave families, deteriorating schools, child rearing by commercial television and military recruitment with "whack-an-Arab" video games? Perhaps we can trust the religious fundamentalist institutions to set them on the right path — NOT!" - Arvy

Here's the answer. YOU. Instead of bashing other people and their religions, why don't you get your lazy butt off the chair and do something about it? If you're too lazy and want to be a commie, then trot your ass over to China and learn some lessons. Besides, if you even read what mp said, it has nothing to do with religion. You people on the Left should STOP ATTACKING RELIGION and STOP SHOVING ATHEISM DOWN OUR THROATS. The religious fundies are already athiests ! Truly religious people would NEVER believe in war as the solution to everything in the first place ! Not all Christians are bad people.

As for Dennis Kucinich, if he's for peace, then why is he still giving 125k to the DCCC which supports the war ?!?!? You fools should wake up and start voting Green or Independent. Besides, after Dennis badly loses, he'll kiss and make up, support the front runner likely to be a corporate/war hack, and run for his same old seat again. And by the way, why the fuck aren't the Kucinich supporters recommending that he try and challenge Voinovich in 2010 and grow up?

Thank you Cindy Sheehan for so beautifully addressing the most serious of all issues facing humankind. And thank you to all the contributors who have elaborated and extended Cindy's thoughts.

I find it distressing, however, that no one has thought to include the single issue that, more than anything else, must be addressed if we are to establish world peace:

In a world of billions of people and hundreds of so-called "sovereign" nation-states, there are bound to be numerous differences of opinion and conflicts of interest among nation-states and among groups of nation-states.

The question is, how are such differences to be resolved. The present method, if it can indeed be dignified by calling it a "method," is the use of force and the threat of force by those who see themselves as the mightiest. And of course the inevitable counter-threats by those who don't agree. That "war system" is the fundamental reason why we have wars. We have in place no method of conflict resolution other than the resort to war.

It is becoming ever more clear that the survival of humankind and perhaps the survival of life on the Planet is seriously threatened by continued wars. That means that we must find a way to replace the law of force with the force of law on a global scale. The wisest among us, like Albert Einstein and Bertrand Russell, have already told us that if we deem human survival important, then we must sooner or later develop the institutions required for the administration of democratic and enforceable world law. Humankind must develop a Federation of of all these nation-states who currently think of themselves as so terribly "sovereign" -- which in reality they cannot be and are not.

Clearly this is something that cannot happen "overnight." But equally clearly, it is high time that we got started thinking about it. Several things could be done in the near future to begin to march in the right direction. A first one would be to make the United Nations General Assembly into an organization that can actually work. The GA's current one-nation-one-vote method of voting guarantees that the GA is restricted to talking and can never accomplish anything positive. Just imagine a system in which the smallest least populous state has the same presumable voting power as China or the United States! We must find a system of weighted voting that will be acceptable to all concerned. Not only mere nationhood but also population and financial contributions to the UN must be counted when it comes to voting power in the General Assembly.

Peace is indeed more than the absence of war. Peace is equivalent to installing a degree of civilization at the supra-national level. And a civilized society by definition is a society that governs its affairs through democratic law enforceable on every citizen.

With every good wish to all of you.

Felix Rosenthal.

well I find myself as I find many of you would agreeing with Ghandhi fairly to the letter who writes,

"But when men recognize no limits in fighting, demolish temples, and kill people indiscriminately, that would mean eclipse of dharma. That would be wickedntess in the name of dharma, it woulld mean the spread of adharma and disorder. Do not, Sri Krishna says to comfort men, give way to to despair when such things happen. "It is good," he says, "that you feel helpless at such a time, for by making you feel so I humble your pride."

geoff: Thanks. In my many years on this planet, though, I have discovered that the majority of folks I run into don't share my view of humans. They have decided to go the "every man for himself" route instead. It's really very sad.

Guess we will have to tote it Rtdrury, __ in shame of course.

We'll see Mars settled before we see Bush or Cheney impeached,__ or possibly de-throned.

Rebel Farmer,

Right On!

But humility aside, please don't punctuate your remarks with qualifiers like "stupid as it may sound," when there are countless readers out here who might believe that "stupid" isn't what you are.

And the others be damned! Or at least experience several additional lifetimes.

Peace is the prevalence of the positive over the negative, of enlightenment over ignrance and awareness over ambivalence.

Personally, I like Spinoza's definition of peace:

"Peace is not the absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, and justice."

Thank you Cindy for reminding us what peace looked like through John Lennon's eyes. Back in the day, I wore out several copies of his Imagine albumn on my turntable. In those days I could imagine peace. Today it's a lot harder.

Stupid as it may sound, I believe that humans are esentially good. It is the culture that they grow up in that corrupts their true nature. If a culture elevates the value of wealth over human values, it corrupts humanity. Any religion or belief system that expouses a "special" class as having the only right answer for all of humanity, it corrupts human rights for all. Whenever one group is fed at the expense of the starvation of others, humanity is lost.

Am I my brother's keeper? Not really. But if my actions deprive my brother of his right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I also limit my own.

Beware the golden calf in all of its forms and incarnations.

Peace to all

In other words Cindy is wrong? Are you giving lessons ZYDECO, or casting your pearls before swine?

Ms. Sheehan begins her article with the premise that Peace and war are related. I disagree with this premise.

Peace is an absolute. It was present before us, is present during us, and will be present after we are long gone. That being the case, it cannot be described by an opposite (war) or an absence. Perhaps she would better serve herself by focusing on Peace as a presence. Is It a presence of endless unfettered joy? Is It ever-present untouched freedom. In It's presence is it possible for anything contrary to It to exist? Does it actually "pass understanding" and, if so or if not, why.

She invites these type of questions with her own definition of Peace as an "existential state." This suggest that she believes Peace is derived from experience. If this is so, then why not attempt to contemplate Peace from the perspective of Peace rather than from the view of a perceived opposite?

dolkar wrote:As Bob Marley said, "a hungry man is an angry man."

So true, yet other people here have posted thoughts that ring true also.

Aalanlak wrote: Americans don't know how to hear such things rationally. Kindness and common sense are invariably seen as weakness. This is our great American tragedy.

Also true, so what is there we can do other than think about John Lenon to move our Nation and the world in the right direction? maxpayne in a post above enumerated ways to move in that direction (thank you maxpayne, thank you Cindy). It's damn right depressing to see what is done in our names contrary to all the ideas expressed on this thread.

"...Americans don't know how to hear such things rationally. Kindness and common sense are invariably seen as weakness. This is our great American tragedy".

Yes, Alanlak - and not only the great American tragedy, but also the great German tragedy (pre-Stalingrad), and just before that, the great Spanish (pre-civil war) tragedy. To name but two examples.

In both of those instances, there came a breakdown and disintegration of everything people had been brought up to believe in - of the infallibility of their own institutions and "natural" leaders, and of illusions that "they" were somehow more beloved of God than other nations and peoples. And after that, a rebuilding from the rubble of what had gone before, of something wholly better.

Peace is Cindy Sheehan, and those who support her ideals. Therefore, there is always hope.

Yet hope is only a nice four letter word, that is often erased, without sensible, firm action, to insure hope springs eternal.

If John Lennon were still with us today - he'd be endorsing Dennis Kucinich - no doubt about it!

The word "peace" is a dirty word in the United States. Multiple generations of living in a defense-based economy has made it so. Fear has become basically a second skin for us, so anyone who talks of peace is seen as weak or an appeaser of some kind. If Dennis Kucinich came off as more aggressive and ready to use weapons, he would be more popular than he is now. Instead, he talks of peace and negotiating and actually listening to our enemies. Americans don't know how to hear such things rationally. Kindness and common sense are invariably seen as weakness. This is our great American tragedy.

nayoibi: "impeach" - thanks for keeping us on topic; for to impeach would be an act of peace for it would be creatively constructive.

No matter which direction you look, no matter the time of year there is peace and war: peace - where creation is cultured, war - where destruction is cultured. Certainly at times one predominates over the other, as for humans destruction rules the day: have we had enough yet? Has the field been burnt enough to yield to new growth? I think so.

And I think impeachment would be the grandest of creative processes - to impeach would take the building of human relationship beyond racist lines, thus culturing a vast diversity yet to be seen on earth. The process of impeachment would also yield the greatest form of participatory human governance yet to be seen on earth that would catapult the "vast diversity" to the glory of the greatest creative expression yet experienced in the universe!

Peace is creation, impeachment is creation, peace is impeachment.

whatfools,

are you taking a tally here?

Attempting to control external events will never keep us safe. Control is an illusion.
- Lao Tzu

But, that said, how many of us are still off to War-Mart to buy lead based crap for our children?