I don't understand how the rightwingnuts can twist this to mean that the CIA is antiBush. They show that Iran does not have an atomic weapons program, and somehow this is antiBush. Just because Bush wants to invade Iran, the whole intelligence community should lie through their teeth!? If the wingnuts can come up with a reasonable proof that somehow the evaluation was falsified, then they might have an argument, but they aren't even trying to do that. They therefore accept that there is no weapons program and are furious with the intelligence community for announcing it.

By the way, for those idiots who are equating a program to concentrate uranium for energy production with a weapons program, there is a BIG difference. The former requires uranium purified to 4%, the latter to more than 95%. The former requires a reactor, the latter requires some sort of bomb that explodes when you want it to along with a method of getting it where you want it. It is the difference between manufacturing gunpowder and a bullet. It is not even close to being the same thing and requires completely different technologies.

oops... I HOPE you're right! (hop on)

PURVIS: I hop you're right!

Good points: MORDECHAI & MEDUSA

Should have been impeached a long time ago, along with Cheney.

Does anyone else think that 16 intelligence agencies is stupid? My recollection is that there were two, one for domestic intelligence called the FBI and one for international intelligence called the CIA, plus a secret one called the NSA. How did we get from three to sixteen without someone figuring out that more than two is not only stupid, but redundant as well? This is a democracy, or is supposed to be a democracy. There is no need for a secret intelligence agency. We need to abolish the Nazi Homeland Security department.

If you do not impeach him, they wasted their fucking time.

Consider: $240 billion of AAA mortgages might be considered a gift to Saudi Arabia.

Wouldn't we like to know why such a gift was given by this right-wing religious president who should be trying to work for the benefit of the U.S.?

A very large voice said
"Drop the Iran Plan...
use these sixteen excuses."
The next plan should be a beaut.

If W. can shape the intelligence to match his faith-based beliefs, as with Iraq, then he will believe the intelligence — no matter how incredible it is.

If he can't shape it to match his beliefs, as with Iran, then he will disregard the intelligence — no matter how credible it is.

I was referring to your entire first post Beeferkids.

Yes, they wrote 'COULD HAVE' by 2010 or 15. So that is surmising isn't it?

Reading between the lines, one could also 'surmise', and say they might not have any ___ ever.

The entire crap is just that, crap. The important issues are, Bush declaring that he was unaware of the contents of the NIE report until last week and he's threating to bomb Iran. Why would any SANE leader do somethng, that could easily destroy their own country?

Didn't the NIE state that Iran could have nukes by 2010-15? That still gives the neocons and hegemonists the argument they need. You know, take out the would-be-Hitler sooner rather than later. The CIA is pissed off for taking the blame on Iraq, and are covering their own asses for the impending debacle in Iran. But they aren't going to provide information to contraindicate a military adventure in Iran by Bush/Clinton/Liebermann/Rohmney et. al. .

We must negotiate with Iran
sign this petition:http://www.PetitionOnline.com/2021456/

Maybe the intelligence community is tired of being stabbed in the back by the Bush Administration.

Hopefully this is a good sign that the 911 inebriation is wearing off.

When will the Praetors stop turning a blind eye to the main problem?

Hey, KEM

Greetings to a fellow dyslexic. Take into account the late hour and varying levels of distraction, as well as the editing function you mentioned. (Can I assume that it has also fouled you up?)

I once thanked someone (elsewhere) for sending me to a particular 'sight' - despite knowing full well the difference between sight, site, and cite. (Of course, that particular site really was a sight.)

Sometimes, for some of us, the old neurons just seem to misfire occasionally, so to speak... (Yet still some people wonder why I so rarely drink.)

Hi Kem, I like your post. Are you referring to the link I posted? It actually chilled me.

Tennant buried a like report for Bush and Cheney in 2001, regarding WMDs. That report was Saddam had absolutly no WMDs, nor any uranium from Africa. Two weeks later the NIE report that was read to Congress, stated just the opposite. It was a lie programmed by Bush and Cheney. Congress then gave Bush the authority to deal with Iraq and the rest is history.

Now we have an almost identical sitation. This NIE report had been squashed by Bush and Cheney for 18 months and when Bush said he was unaware of the report until last week, it was an outrageous, obvious lie. Now, someone has let the pussy out of the sack.__ WHY ?__ We can only guess, but I like the astute guess BeForKids offered here.

For the crrent NIE report not saying anything about Iran, perhaps or maybe re-starting their program sometime in the future, that makes a lot of sense. How could they presume so with any credibility? That's like telling us when Jesus will return. Who would know, except the higher ups in Iran and how would they know, if they maybe don't even plan to do it. If they did know, they aren't going to broadcast it to the CIA either. That should be a moot issue.

It's becoming too complicated for my little brain to sort out things at this time. However, one fact has proved to be indisputable: the Republicans, the Democrats, the Administration, the FBI, the CIA, and the rest of the assorted US intelligence agencies including all the so-called think tanks (read stink tanks) are all in it together working to promote the US imperialist agendas.

I, therefore, cannot figure out why they decided to publicize the intelligence report at this time. But I know that honor among the thieves does not allow dissention. The intelligence Czar, whoever he is, and he is certainly a trusted agent, would not have allowed this apparently damaging report to surface. So, what's the scheme?

The NIE report already is being played down. The CIA says that the report said nothing about future possibilities of Iran "restarting its nuclear program to develop weapons." The MSM has been working overtime to play down the report and will continue to do so. I think Kem Patrick is right that within one week this will be a fleeting memory.

Pervis Ames:

I like the comparison of Bush to Caligula. Indeed they are very much alike.

Hi there PURVIS AMES. I didn't have any trouble reading and understanding the post MIK wrote. I also would not wish to suggest that MIK was not correct, unless I had some better information to offer. I don't believe poor spelling is a such big deal and sometimes the edit function doesn't always work very well.

Personally I have a big problem with my eyes and often misspell words when using this screen and a sometimes sticky keyboard. I'm also a bit dyslexic, so why not be a little more friendly here. I thought MIK's post was very interesting.

Every night 75 million American children and a billion more children around the world go to bed counting on us to keep them safe, to protect the world they live in and will wake up in tomorrow; they count on us because they don't know how to do these things yet themselves; they need time to learn and grow and they need our help in making that time for them; they know we aren't perfect, they know we'll make many mistakes as they do every day, they know sometimes we will face an adversary to powerful or smart for us to overcome or out think, they know there are forces in the universe over which we have no control; they only ask us to do our best and love us for every moment we do.

Mik
First, learn how to spell. Secondly, why would anyone want to buy up a bunch of worthless mortgage bundles?

Is Saddam still hanging around?

The NIE vs. The LIE.

I'm ignorant on this and therefore will ask questions.

Since the respected Wall Street Journal printed this article, what is the likelyhood the other major press and media in our country will follow their lead?

Do any here think that this entire story will be dead by next Monday?

Come clean, Kim Jong-il.
Come clean, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Come clean, Saddam Hussein.

Saddam?
Saddam?
Come clean, Saddam.

How can you get the Congress to impeach when they are complicit in the illegal acts?

Excellent thoughts so far. You have missed a clear probability and it is that the Iranians really were not involved in trying to build a nuke up til 2003. The Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov said that the U.S. information was false. A New York Times article from "unnamed intell and high gov't officials" stated that we based our knowledge about the Iranians attempts to build nukes on notes of meetings, conversations and the contents of a lap top computer. This is a chapter out of the play book of Dick Cheney. He had Scooter Libby (remember him) pass bogus stories about those bad Iraqis to Judith Miller of the NYT to scare hell out of Americans and then quoted the NYT as proof of the danger from the Iraqis. A Russian General put it well;"When we lie,we know we are lying; when you Americans lie, you actually believe it". Get out the strait jackets and start the impeachments! There is a behind the scenes struggle within the military to prevent war. Admiral Fallon called General Petreus an "Ass kissing chickenshit" to his face because of Petreus's willingness to spout the White House message. He has also made a point of issueing military press releases that shoot holes in the constant Bush claim that the Iranians are making the Explosively Formed Penetrators (EFP's) that are used agaisnt our troops. Check out "EFP factory" and you will find a number of CENTCOM releases that counter the lies being put out by the Petraus group. Don't get cynical, get pissed and keep demanding that Congress impeach the top 20.

Finally... after logic and reason fled in the October 2002 descent into the run up to Iraq, they have sworn to retreat no more. There is at last a glimmer of hope that, bad as things are, they may not worsen.

Whatever you do do not read Legacy of Ashes by Timothy Weiner. It is terrible. It pretends to be muckraking when actually it may as well be written by the CIA itself. It actually trusts Richard Helms and doesnt check it against other sources.. John Prados' book The Secret Wars of the CIA is much much better. It is an adult book.

Since we now get our straight news from Comedians and our laughs from politicians, shouldn't we be voting for the Comedian for President? I know who I'm writing in !

"If they so botched up Iraq, Thompson drawled, how on earth could we believe what they have to say about Iran?"

Well Fred, stop and think about it......George T. who received the Bush-badge of "lapdog excellence" is no longer running the CIA. Secondly, there are numerous Military Generals who refuse to follow the idiotic agenda being perpetrated by political neocons that "Iran is an immanent threat" to the United States and the rest of the world.

And last but not least, the United States is financially bankrupt and Communist China, which has been lending us money to continue the war in Iraq, is showing signs of economic decline. Do you think they're going to continue to support our "wars of empire building"?

Rebel Farmer, what an interesting theory. Why are you focusing on Fallon as the one who leaked the report? It makes sense, as you explained, but do you base your hypothesis on anything else? There's a huge back story here, and I'd feel better knowing more about it.

In any case, you know your democracy has fallen by the wayside when the only institution that effectvely pushes back against a warmongering executive is the military. Bizarre.

As much as I don't trust the Pentagon, I certainly trust them more than bush. And, in the military may rest our only hope to handcuff these satanic bastards and bring them to justice. I just listened to Perino at the news conference today. She was totally befuddled trying to cover up bush's lies and total incompetence. Look for a new press secretary in the near future. She's already worn out.

Its good to see the neocon PNAC steamroller is finally running low on steam. The pros in the military, intelligence, NASA... are defying the minders and patronage hacks.

They have better educations and track records than Bush and Cheney, and must wonder how this pair could ever get into the White House without standing in line with the Cub Scouts for a ticket. While its their duty to follow orders, they realize the reckless orders are coming from a radical fringe group that has abused its (stolen) power for illogical and dangerous purposes. They also have seen the unending bloodshed, and how many lives, patriotic careers and great reputations the chickenhawks have frivolously desroyed.

Time to change bandwagons Hillary. Gonna need your track shoes to catch this one, and hope the voters forget you were kissing their neocon wannabe behinds on the last one.

It's helpful and comforting to remember that there are some principled and honest government employees who work in the "intelligence" field. They're not all stupid enough to blindly support the Bush regime.

Open letter to Congress

The Bush Administration's recent refusal to accept the NIE report of findings on Iran is seriously disturbing. Given the administration's past history on Iraq, this recent stand by Mister's Bush and Chaney, offers conclusive evidence of delusional paranoia, and demonstrates a psychotic inability to engage in truth and reality. Such actions show incompetence at best, and/or pathology at worst. Either way, they define a dire situation of immense importance that must be addressed immediately. A vote of "no confidence", for a situation of this magnitude, could only appear patronizing or condescending. Mister's Bush and Chaney must be invited to step down from office or face impeachment, forthwith.
It would be understandable for Congress to be taken aback by this message, but I would site the relevance of taking action when events such as the above stand as glaring warning signals.

The Washington Pot wrote that those who opposed the Iraq adventure will utilize this latest press release from the Ministry of Information as a self serving, ironic cudgel against our infidel executive branch. The Pot, in typical top-40 irresponsible journalism, fails to acknowledge class warfare. In this case, as others have said,
it's the SS and the Gestapo in a tug of war.

It would seen that we're witnessing the first revolt of the intelligence community against the plan by Cheney to bomb Iran.

Now that they've stepped forward and told the truth to the American people, perhaps others within the dying administration will choose, like Daniel Ellsberg during the Vietnam tragedy, to step forward with their stories.

Of course, I don't know whether it will matter since we seem to have such a GUTLESS leader in Congress keeping IMPEACHMENT off the table. If any president ever deserved this, it is the present occupier of the White House.

My congressman, Henry Waxman, busies himself with all the wonderful hearings and then does NOTHING to hold these criminals accountable.
###

The military, having realized some time ago that George Wanker Bush has played them for some of the biggest fools in recorded history, has no doubt had a hand in bringing this NIE to light. The Army and Marines have been decimated by the occupation of Iraq. If for no other reason than mere self-preservation they are now pissing on Bush's head and getting away with it.

It's great that someone dropped the dime on the Idiot in Chief and the Asst. Idiot in Chief. I'm all for that.
But lets keep out eyes on the CIA.

To read the very best book written on the CIA try Norman Mailer's Harlot's Ghost. It a great read and a excellent lowdown on the powers to be.

Just more proof that the Bush Presidency never was and never will have anything to do with Intelligence. On any level......Then, again......hmmmm......If the neocon thugs are forced to abandon their grand plan to Bunkerbust Iran, that will leave them free to take care of some unfinished chores in Venezuela...and maybe Bolivia. Hay Hugo, Evo...
better find a good place to hide. The Empire is on the march again.

I've never looked at Powerline before. Odd how the three authors all went to the same college and how one has a little penis next to his name, another an elephant's trunk (a bit phallic?) and the third a little bear or something that looks like it's out of an old horror movie I can't place or recall the name of. Weird.

Let's remember history. An insane, depraved, degenerate Roman emperor called Caligula (remind you of anybody?) carried on like the homicidal maniac he was until the Praetorian guard had to intervene and assassinate the lunatic. The American military (Admiral Fallon) and the intelligence community have now publically announced that they're not going to take any more of Baby Caligula's nonsense. He's standing in some very deep shit.

Intelligence is a sorely misused word.

There is almost nothing intelligent about the US government. Actually there is nothing, but better to be a little forgiving, because we the people get the government we deserve.

And the "intelligence" agencies are in the business of manufacturing lies, by and large, just to generate fodder for contention and keep everyone away from what matters. Why else would "they" make all this "intelligence" public?

The whole thing is a smokescreen and hardly worth a dozen words of discussion, which is why I stop here.

You folks are SO funny! But what else can we do in times like these?

Couple of observation: The CIA didn't write this NIE. I think there were like 16 agencies or something like that involved. I also don't believe the CIA allowed this NIE to be made public over Cheney's objections. They don't have the "juice" as we already know from the manipulation on Iraq NIE's and intel. Nope, I think that General Fallon made this possible. And from that perspective, it becomes clear what this is all about. Fallon has said that a war with Iran is NOT going to happen on his watch. Why, you might ask would he say that? My guess is that he KNOWS that we would lose and that the US military would face a blood bath.

This isn't politics as usual folks. There is an internal fight going on between the administration and the military. And since Congress isn't doing it's job, the military is picking up the slack. And the military is non-partisan. Fallon doesn't give a sh*t about who wins the election. He cares about the military and winning wars. I'm not sure where he stands on the peace thing or wars for oil.

Just some random thoughts......

Peace

maryannsalo December 6th, 2007 3:34 pm -- Why does the US need 16 intelligence agencies?

Well, once upon a time, there was a distinction between foreign and domestic intelligence operations. Then, of course, there's signals intellingence (NSA) with its special requirements for ComCo liasons and, of course, each branch of the military absolutely must have its own 'in-house' intelligence capability. Inevitably, therefore, the need arises for some kind of 'co-ordinating' agency. That was once the responsidbility of the Director of the CIA, but the head of the Homeland Security Department needed someting to justify that new agency. And last, but certainly not least, the regal presidency and his puppetmaster VP have to have groups to oversee and cherrry-pick the stuff they actually want for their own agendas.

I've probably missed a few, but it's increasingly difficult to keep track of it all.

Why does the US need 16 intelligence agencies?

No wonder they all tie their shoelaces together at critical moments.

Now that they seem to have an attack of sanity, let's make the most of it.

Iran? Who said anything about them folks?

No, no, no.

"President George W. Bush has urged North Korea to fulfill its pledge to reveal all nuclear programs, in his first direct communication with the reclusive leader of a country he once branded part of an "axis of evil."

Ain' no damn NIEEE on that guy now, ya see, and he plum already got da knowledge, see, on how to build them nuk-u-lar devices. I never said Iran was nuk-i-fying or what not never no how. Nerth Kor-E-ah. Bad folk.

The neocon war against accurate CIA information goes back at least to the 1975-76 Team B affair. Team A consisted of the CIA officials who created the National Intelligence estimates. Team B consisted of outside experts who "proved" that the NIE was underplaying the Soviet threat. I hate relying on Wikipedia for this stuff, but its article--accuracy and neutrality disputed--at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_B says Team B was chaired by Daniel Pipes and advised by, among others, our old friend Paul Wolfowitz! President Ford created it at the urging of Secretary of Defense...Donald Rumsfeld. Team B's "report" went to the media and became gospel. It left out the part where the Soviet Union would collapse in another 15 years.

This is a cirdcumstance where the enemy of my enemy is not my friend but, rather, a different face of the enemy. The CIA is just as perversely evil as the neocon Bush adminstration. That the CIA wants things on their terms rather than those of Bushco does not make the CIA any less dangerous--ask the Kennedy and King families.

I guess Bush can get even by outing the entire CIA.

An old adage applies to what passes for the US intelligence community: first time, shame on you, second time, shame on me. It appears as if the "intelligence community" taken the aforementioned to heart and is determined that the blame land squarely in the lap of Dubya & Co.

Remember, Bush Sr. was director of the CIA around the time Reagan was negotiating arms for hostages, the Carter govt. botched a rescue attempt and didn't bother with a second one. It was a botched botch job.

If the CIA is so clean now, can they tell us why we support Columbia with so much money and aid -- and at the same time are the world's greatest consumer of cocaine (according to the CIA world factbook itself)?

If there's any shred of truth to the CIA not giving Bush & Co. a free ride any longer it's because the Bilderbergers (or whoever) have made up their minds and want the Democrats to do their work in '08 instead.

This is not a reality-based reality....Trouble is, people with their heads in the sand get their asses kicked....

the CIA is sworn to defend the USa agianst all enemies, foreign and domestic...I'd be worried if the WEREN'T going after Emperor Bush

1drees posted this link on another website and it clearly spelled out just how much trouble we are in. I would really like to hear comments on this link. It makes everything else sound like empty noise.

http://artofmentalwarfare.com

The solutions it outlined are nothing new, but maybe what this country needs is another Republican administration to really fuck up things fast to get the publics' attention in a hurry. Can we trust the Democrats to protect our free internet access? Can we trust the Democrats to do anything in the public interest? They haven't come through yet.

Gee, USans, how does it feel to experience nefarious plots against and undermining of your country's government by those sneaky undercover operatives of the nasty old CIA?

I don't actually believe that for one moment, but the irony is too delicious to resist. As a former KGB man, Vladimir Putin must be laughing his head off -- as well he should be.

For a very different take on the subject read Iran Intelligence Report: More Psychological Warfare?

This is a fight among the ruling class, just like Watergate was. Cheney and his boys want to nuke Iran, and saner heads are trying to prevent it. That's why we're suddenly seeing two versions of reality, instead of just the junta in power's version that we've been seeing for 6 years.
I remember hearing some old African proverb: When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.
The people of Iraq are being trampled. We can only hope that Iran isn't next. And that we aren't on the list somewhere.

"Wouldn't a CIA war on Bush be a good thing?"

I'm all for a good old fashioned mutiny. They got the guns AND the numbers to create some serious internal blowback.

Thanks to the intelligence agencies for being intelligent enough not to allow Bush to start WWIII.

Wouldn't a CIA war on Bush be a good thing?

If I worked in the US clandestine intelligence service I would do whatever it took to discredit the Republican Party in retaliation for their outing Valerie Plame.

Although the American electorate is unwilling to or incapable of connecting the dots, you can bet that intelligence personnel (friend and foe)worldwide are A+ students when it comes to connecting dots...that is their job.
If one US clandestine agent is outed it doesn't take long for enemy agents to figure out the identity of many other US agents.
The outed agents' partisan preference makes no difference. Some of the US agents linked to Plame will be Democrats and others Republicans. The fact that no Republican from the legislative branch made any motions to prosecute this case should have many Republican agents questioning their partisan preference.
Not to mention the damage done to efforts to recuit new agents. Who wants a clandestine job when you have to worry about the White House betraying you.

Remember way back in 2000, when one of the neocons(was it Rove?) announced that they would create their own reality, redefine reality, and while we're all busy trying to analyze and understand it, they'd already be creating a new one, and we'd have to catch up to that one all over again. That's what they're doing. Same old story. Facts, evidence, history, track records...all irrelevant.

You see, Bush was right about Iraq and WMD

he was also right about Iraq and AQ

He was right about Musharraf and democracy

He was right about Putin and democracy

He was right about not confronting Saudi and the hijackers

Everybody else is wrong.....

nothing is different..nothing has changed..it has always been the fault of the c.i.a,since hoover and his boy-wonder george bush sr.like batman and robin they single-handedly pushed america down the yellow brick road of all that is fascist and completely unamerican...employing a continuous parade of nabobian good ole boys in the club,to carry out their always dirty deeds.the f.b.i. has always been the tamer more legitimate branch of u.s. espionage..and the c.i.a. the wildly self-serving greedy branch of spying,hell-bent on making every outcome serve their own voracious,lusty,twisted and evil appetites,with no thought or care of what is truly right,for the greater good of our citizens or our nation.

The people who made sure the unclassified NIE got out have done this country a tremendous service. I don't subscribe to the partisan nonsense that the right is throwing around. These people are genuinly concerned about the course of this country and did the right thing to force this government back from another disastrous course.

If Article I Sections 2 and 3;
And Article II Section 4;
weren't placed in the US Constitution specifically for out-of-control presidential regimes like this one, then, for crying out loud, what good is the constitution?

Maybe, just maybe, the people in those 16 agencies care enough to not roll over and lie for a corrupt administration. Maybe, maybe just maybe, some of them believe that we shouldn't go to war for no reason. That would be lovely

Bush was dead wrong about Iraq. Now he would like us to trust his gut feeling about Iran, while 16 US intelligence agencies disagree with him.

Gee, who should we believe?