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US War Vets to Speak Publicly About War Crimes
SAN FRANCISCO -- U.S. war veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan have announced they're planning to descend on Washington, DC this March to testify about war crimes they committed or personally witnessed in Iraq.
"The war in Iraq is not covered to its potential because of how dangerous it is for reporters to cover it," said Liam Madden, a former Marine and member of the group Iraq Veterans Against the War. "That's left a lot of misconceptions in the minds of the American public about what the true nature of military occupation looks like."
Iraq Veterans Against the War argues that well-publicized incidents of American brutality like the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and the massacre of an entire family of Iraqis in the town of Haditha are not the isolated incidents perpetrated by "a few bad apples," as many politicians and military leaders have claimed. They are part of a pattern, the group says, of "an increasingly bloody occupation."
"This is our generation getting to tell history," Madden told OneWorld, "to ensure that the actual history gets told -- that it's not a sugar-coated, diluted version of what actually happened."
Iraq Veterans Against the War is calling the gathering a "Winter Soldier," named after a similar event organized by Vietnam veterans in 1971.
In 1971, over 100 members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War gathered in Detroit to share their stories with America. Atrocities like the My Lai massacre had ignited popular opposition to the war, but political and military leaders insisted that such crimes were isolated exceptions.
"Initially even the My Lai massacre was denied," notes Gerald Nicosia, whose book Home to War provides the most exhaustive history of the Vietnam veterans' movement.
"The U.S. military has traditionally denied these accusations based on the fact that 'this is a crazy soldier' or 'this is a malcontent' -- that you can't trust this person. And that is the reason that Vietnam Veterans Against the War did this unified presentation in Detriot in 1971.
"They brought together their bonafides and wore their medals and showed it was more than one or two or three malcontents. It was medal-winning, honored soldiers -- veterans in a group verifying what each other said to try to convince people that these charges cannot be denied. That people are doing these things as a matter of policy."
Nicosia says the 1971 "Winter Soldier" was roundly ignored by the mainstream media, but that it made an indelible imprint on those who were there.
Among those in attendance was 27-year-old Navy Lieutenant John Kerry, who had served on a Swift Boat in Vietnam. Three months after the hearings, Nicosia notes, Kerry took his case to Congress and spoke before a jammed Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Television cameras lined the walls, and veterans packed the seats.
"Many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia," Kerry told the Committee, describing the events of the "Winter Soldier" gathering.
"It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit -- the emotions in the room, and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do."
In one of the most famous antiwar speeches of the era, Kerry concluded: "Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be -- and these are his words -- 'the first President to lose a war'. We are asking Americans to think about that, because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"
Nicosia says Americans and veterans find themselves in a similar situation today.
"The majority of the American people are very dissatisfied with the Iraq war now and would be happy to get out of it. But Americans are bred deep into their psyches to think of America as a good country and, I think, much harder than just the hurdle of getting troops out of Iraq, is to get Americans to realize the terrible things we do in the name of the United States."
© 2007 One World.net
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Show All"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway
If this event is allowed to happen in Washiington DC in March, it will be the most important event for Peace since Viet Nam.
These are the troops who need our support.
Here's my question to Liam Madden and Iraq Veterans against the war:
What is so magic about MARCH?? Why on Earth would you wait until March 2008 to share this information with the world and the Congress?!
Hearings should be scheduled on this matter IMMEDIATELY! Especially with the U.S./Israel potentially preparing for a military conflagration in the Middle East!
Holidays or no holidays, NOW is the time to go to Washington, D.C. and testify. NOT in March. War crimes don't take or deserve holidays.
Why the hell wait till March to march?
March will be too late..Iran will have been invaded and it's likely we'll be under martial law. DO IT NOW!
Agreed. Don't wait until March.
These are the troops that I support! Thank you IVAW for speaking out, I know it's not easy.
March? How about TODAY! Oh,Christmas shopping maybe, then New Years, then the superbowl. Don't want to screw up anthing important.
This is it. This is important.
Nothing was more effective in ending the Vietnam war than the "Winter Soldier Investigation".
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Soldier_Investigation.
Also the words of Thomas Paine from 1776 when he talks about the winter soldiers and the sunshine patriots. The winter soldiers are couageous enough to face the full challenge and speak the truth.
And John Kerry's statement from 1971- http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html
Finally the song Camelle by Graham Nash (Wild Tales CD), about the Winter Soldier Investigation and the movie on DVD - http://www.wintersoldierfilm.com/
This is the beginning of dealing straight with the pain.
1) I echo Jim Glover's comments, and to the sisters and brothers who have had to serve in Iraq and other murderous US imperial ventures: Welcome Home.
2) To all who would chastize these courageous folks for not organizing the March event more quickly, you need to take a hard look at the logistics of organizing anything in DC, or any other national event anywhere.
Organizing is alot more than "announce it on the web and they will come." Here's just one small item: how do you get the folks there when they are all working like dogs to survive in an era of $3/gallon fuel and little effective public transportation?
Let's be real people, and not castigate the vets who have had to serve in hell and now are acting courageously (against the instincts of the vast majority of their fellow countrywomen and men)to describe exactly what that hell -- which we have created as a nation -- is like.
"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway
Yet it was a lie in the old days and it's a lie repeated to this day. As it always has been it's the old who ask the young to die for the 'honor' of the old.
The young soldiers who speak out will be villified by the rich, uhhh right wing, yet they have already been to hell.
I say do it now.
It should be plan to some that this government, the USA administration, Congress, and the legal sytem, a.k.a lawyers, don't listen to the people. The ruling elite and their representatives are going to stay in Iraq, spend money, and continue to commit war crimes for as lone as they like.
We have zero influence on those events, but we pay the bills.
We are suckers.
War and Peace is in the balance regarding who gets the next Presidency- most decisions will conclude in February not in March:
In the Primaries everybody who is a registered Democrat- VOTE in January or February
Vote for Obama not for Hillary and don't waste your vote on Dennis Kucinich- no matter how smart he is.-- he is too far away to win.
Hillary is not only endorsing anything Israel wants which is often the wrong stuff but she is loosing against Romney, Giuliani or McCain according to the latest Zogby poll done mid November. Obama is winning against all Republican choices because a lot of Republicans will vote for Obama but not for Hillary.
All the republicans have been talking about more bombing, more Guantanamo, more death penalty and detaining illegals not to mension that 3 of the candidates do not believe in evolution so how will they deal with global warming? Denie it ? The Supreme Court will be ruined when they make the next 3 appointments.
Ron Paul might run as Independent after being snubbed by the Republicans, then he will be a strong third party especially since he collected millions of dollars. ( I wonder who gave that money?) and the Republicans will win because Ron Paul will split the Democratic candidate whoever it is while nobldy can hardly split the republican vote.
I have nothing against either Dennis or Ron Paul but I want and electable candidate who can beat a Republican- that is Obama - first multiracial President, Harvard Law school who did not become a trial lawyer but successful comunity organizing in Chicago.
I agree with tj that organizing an event such as this takes considerable time, money, lots of planning to maximize its media exposure, and additional planning for legal representation for those who will be attacked for doing this or to counter the efforts of those who will try to silence the group. Something constructive that we could do to help them get the word out would be to send donations to their organization earmarked for the March event.
The important thing is that these young patriots are willing to state publicly what is actually taking place in our names. Of course the sooner the better but meanwhile we need to do all we can do to support these brave veterans. They need to know that the people are behind them and want the truth to be put on the table. If we listen to these guys maybe we can avoid a future situation where our soldiers die killing for the rich.
Hoa binh
"But Americans are bred deep into their psyches to think of America as a good country and, I think, much harder than just the hurdle of getting troops out of Iraq, is to get Americans to realize the terrible things we do in the name of the United States."
They are brave and honorable men to recognise this and say it aloud. True heroes. I admire and respect them.
I case y'all did not know, you need a PERMIT to march in DC (and other cities as well - this is called "freedom", folks). To apply for the permit, you need to provide size of march, purpose, and route. Depending on your application, the permit can be hard or easy.
Pro-life, 10,000 people, White House = easy.
Anti-war, 1,000 people, 3 blocks from Congress = hard.
I'm betting getting a permit for "Winter Soldier" will be damned hard.
WTF----thanks for that info and perspective---our impatience gets the best of us. I am grateful to these young folks for their courage and commitemnt to Truth and Justice. No doubt the will have a few obstacles to overcome, getting a permit---if denied, they should call a press conference and tell the American people directly why some Vets can't march, as well as the truth of the occupation.
Metamorph - That is exactly what will continue business as usual inD.C.. Obama has outright said he will support the military, and I would bet he will be similar to Bill Clinton who laid the tax treasury at the feet of the war-monger bullies know as 'The Pentagon' - including the Defense Board, as most Presidents have. Not all military brass are included in this indictment, of course, but the imperialist Pentagonians scream murder if congress so much as suggests to cut the increase in their takings of our treasury - NEVER an actual 'cut.' God forbid - with over 1,500 or so oversea bases (nobody even apparently knows exactly how many); $7 TRILLION in 'unaccounted for' spent monies from 1995-1999 (I have the IRS audit article), etc. No, only Kucinich dares to take on the GRUNCH of Giants (Gross Universal Cash Heist) that Buckminster Fuller (and Eisenhower) warned us about. I say vote Kuncinich - there IS no other meaningful vote (except for Nader). If progressives would just do it - we can change the direction of this country. By the way, Nader found that only 38% of his 'taken' votes were from Dems - that is a big lie that he 'stole' so many votes. Gore lost it, as did Kerry because they wimped out on us. the Dems are total wimps and worse with all the crap they have been up to. Anyone with a conscious should be ashamed to leave Kucinich hanging in the wind. He seems to be the only one with enough guts to do something.
Nevermind a big rally.
These veterans need to testify on these matters ASAP. Otherwise it dilutes the seriousness of the issue.
We are talking WAR CRIMES people.
I think it's a wonderful idea to plan another "march". (I hope this one is mid-week instead of a Saturday when D.C.'s a ghost town).
We dare not fiddle while Rome burns.
We must put the fire out. Now.
Exactly termite.
First we send money to IVAW (http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier), and second we figure out how we can get ourselves to DC to support the vets and organize others to do the same.
Man, by the looks of it, it's going to be one hell of a Springtime for Bush and America.
Meanwhile keep these wars in the faces of the Christmas shoppers. Sometimes our local peace stand is only 2 people, but it reminds everyone.
I will no longer vote for the lesser of 2 evils. It is Kucinich or no one.
Whenever these soldiers can testify, I am with them. A very brave thing to do.
Hi Commentarian,
Do you have the site to the article you mentioned re the $7 trillion in unaccounted for goverment money between 1995-99? A lot of us could put that info to good use. Thanks for whatever you can provide us.
I am known to condemn our troops on this blog. But THESE TROOPS ARE MY HEROES!
Wintersoldier II, I love it. If you have not seen Wintersoldier please take the time to learn about it... one of the most captivating people in that film was Scott Camil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Camil
Who is still very politically active and does talks about his experience in Vietnam and in Wintersoldier. Check out this YouTube clip... http://youtube.com/watch?v=CH9jAMuj2Js
You can purchase the film at http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/milliariumzero/Detail?no=1 or on Amazon.com
There is an excellent documentary produced about the life of Scott Camil as a DVD extra along with a ton of extras... I encourage everybody to buy it and support the Millerium Zero who makes a lot of sacrifices in getting films like this out to the public. It will also give you a perspective to the upcoming testimony... these type of events should be sponsored in every state!
Does it have to be Washington D.C.????
How about another good sized city willing to host the gathering, auditoriums, hotels, etc.?
Bless the Liam's of the world who not only have the balls to go fight a battle, but equally as brave to expose the lies associated with this war of occupation.
Four months is to long to wait,four weeks is to long. Next week is good it will still be 2007. Once the Madhatter starts bombing Iran and martial law goes into effect their will be no hearings of any kind. Let's try to get the hearings started this year.
do it now
The weekend closest to 3/19 (the date we started bombing Iraq so many years ago) has been the nexus for organizing annual 'anniversary' anti-war demos in DC since the get-go of this fiasco.
Please don't dis the IVAW for going with the flow of organizing that got started LAST march. Just join them there - or bring a friend to an anniversary demo being organized near your home.
There are big rallies in LA, SF, Seattle, as well as small but important ones near military bases (the demo in Fayetteville NC is always a good place to be).
This year, bring friends who've sympathized with your peace activism all along, but never been fed up enough to make the trip.
Bringing a church group...
Peach McD in Durham NC
ok I gave money to Dennis Kucinich and I remain grateful for his ideas- BUT I am now active with Obama because i need to work on someone who is a peace candidate who will WIN. Obama is logical and honest in that sense and comes across as trustworthy - pick the right one and avoid war war war.
I like it that Obama does not play the "terror card" with the public- we need to win hearts and minds. Obama will be popular in the world- I do not see Dennis winning - he only has 4% and Obama is beating Hillary in Iowa right now. He is also electable and Hillary is possibly not electable- let alone endorse the Iranian military forces designated as terrorists.
To Metamorph:
FYI, Sen. Obama sits on the Senate Homeland Security Committee (chaired by Lieberman!!), which is about to vote on SB 1959, "The Homegrown Terrorism Act".
I've spent several days on the phone with his staffer trying to see whether or not he will stop campaigning long enough to debate what should actually be called "The Stifling of Dissent in 2007 Act" and I can't get a straight answer.
At least Dennis Kucinich had the guts and courage of his convictions to be one of only 6 against 404 in the vote on the bill in the House.
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Obama never shows up to debate the bill and votes FOR it, as will Clinton, Biden and Dodd. Cowards all.
BTW, if you're interested, tomorrow night at 7:30pm EST there will be a debate in Iowa with all eight of the Democrats, including Gravel and Kucinich streaming online at HDnet, hosted by Dan Rather.
Good luck with "All options are on the table with Iran" Obama.
And speaking of Iran, here's a great interview I just read with Scott Ritter regarding his thoughts on the subject:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18809.htm
I don't know about anyone else but this just makes me want to cry. I don't know about anyone else but the evidence of war crimes has been plastered all over the internet in the last 5 years. Here is one example http://robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm . There have been plenty of video's on Youtube and NOT a damn thing has been done about any of it. But try not paying your excise tax and see what happens.
I am sorry to say but does anyone truly think these confessions will make a difference at the White House and Congress? Those that still support this war will call these soldiers traitors and liars as they have in the past. Democrats were elected in 2006 to bring the soldiers home and as we all are aware that hasn't happened. Nothing is going to be done about it until at least the next election and that is also questionable considering the candidates. Soldiers will have to continue to do their immoral duty and if they live their souls will be scared for life. This country is over there for the money and that is all that counts.
Life is valueless unless it serves to produce wealth for the wealthy. Those responsible for this death and destruction are seriously deranged. The more the deranged are pressured the more harm they will do. We have seen it this year with the surge.
It makes me want to vomit but releasing guilt is about all these soldiers will accomplish. Some may even get tazed in the process. This country has gone to hell.
_F_E_A_R_ is the great thief of _T_I_M_E_
We are ALL suffering, through NAOMI's idea of SHOCK, which is much
the same as those facing a diagnosis of CANCER, who are consumed by
DARK FEAR, and hug the pillows of their bed alone in a vain attempt to
kind solace and comfort - but the bed only provides a place for sleep.
We must look outside of our fetal positioning and
powerlessness, to be again empowered to unwind, unravel, and open our
spirits to dream and soar again.
It is through our passion to live for something (really almost
anything will do) creatively laudable, from which we can start to take
the little steps that eventually build into the journey and quest to
discovery of new living, within and without (per Beatles) us.
This is the recommendation from the SHOCK DOC, to live our lives even larger and dream imaginary possibilities, that may very well appear penultimately as miracles and our salvation
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world »
« There is enough to meet everybody's need, but there is not enough to meet everybody's greed »
You are correct abbybwood, they are all fascists and war mongers and those of us that feel discord by their actions will be considered terrorists.
May God forgive us...
For we are aware of what we do...
the Japanese principle of Lukatmi states that as long as others keep dieing in your place you will have a long and prosperous life. And it is true.
Obama? Good god, please no.
Mike Gravel spoke here in NH a few days ago. When asked who is the scariest Democrat candidate, he ranked Obama above Hillary. I was surprised at first, but his explanation makes very good sense:
People perceive Obama as some harbinger of hope and change, which is all just empty rhetoric. At least with Clinton you know what you're getting. Mediocre, pandering, centrism. But people think Obama will be some type of revolutionary savior. He would LET EVERYONE DOWN, and all the people that got excited about politics (particularly a young generation) will be that much more jaded.
Barack Obama: HYPE SINKS
GRAVEL... and Kucinich, and Paul (in some capacities) will tell it like it is. THAT matters more than most anything else.
If the Winter Soldiers are planning to testify in March, it must be that there is a congressional committee scheduled to hear them. They also need lead time of several months to gather significant numbers from around the nation. People need to raise funds for the travel expenses; schedule reservations or alternative volunteer housing early and possibly schedule time off from work.
White Corporate AmeriKKKa the real terrorists
With this Winter Soldier II, we will see still more American citizens who have done more for their country than W ever could or would.
I agree with the sentiments posted above: speaking out in March 2008 will be too late. The veterans should have spoken up earlier.
May God forgive us…
For we are aware of what we do…
I don't know about you but I didn't vote for Bush. I am not personally causing anyone any harm. The only other way a person can personally contribute to war crime is by supporting it financially with income taxes. I supposed if we didn't pay income taxes they would find another way of getting it from us.
Something should have been done about 9/11. It is next near to impossible for three buildings to go down the way they did. The third building didn't even get hit by a plane. It is absolutely nuts.
There were so many warning signs even before the invasion. Children dying by the thousands for sanctions against their country because of Saddam? Those innocent children needed to die as a result of the actions of their leader? 13 years of sanctions? Then Downing Street, misinformation from intelligence, Congress not reading the facts before they committed this country to war, UN, secret renditions, torture, people jailed with no charges, wiretapping without a warrant, using weapons of destruction against the Geneva Conventions. I have watched videos of soldiers just picking off people. Look at what was done in Falluja. Ambulances hit by soldiers, hospitals destroyed, schools. Then there is Black Water. Millions of dollars stolen. I mean the list goes on and on and on. There is absolutely no surprise that war crimes have been committed and I don't see what difference it will make when soldiers tell us what we already know. The president can do all this because he is the president of the United States?????????????? As far as I concerned this country has gone totally insane.
nspire, I see your point but what about those people in Iraq? How can they possibly do the same thing when most of them don't even have a home to go to? What is happening to my sister in Iraq is happening to us all. We are truly all one.
Did I miss something here? Do they plan a protest march in DC, or are they going to have a hearing with Congress, or a press conference? I didn't think it was a protest march where they'd require a permet.
To Urthsong:
If American Veterans from the War in Iraq cannot get a hearing in Congress until MARCH of 2008 in order to testify about COMMITTED WAR CRIMES then we have a serious f'ing problem!
If I were working with them and the Congress wouldn't hear us until March of 2008 (which is basically a "F You"), I'd have a press conference with them at the Press Club in WDC pronto.
There are plenty of people with deep pockets who would provide these veterans with funds for airfare, hotels, food and even to pay for the logistical matters. Come on. One well-placed phone call just about anywhere in Hollywood would get them the money!
Here's a suggestion just off the top of my head. All the actors are listed with the Screen Actors Guild in Beverly Hills, along with an agent contact, publicist, manager etc. Make a list of the usual suspects: Sean Penn etc. Call their agents and take it from there. Do you know how many actors Sean Penn can call in a day to raise $$??? Hello!
Here's another idea just off the top of my head. Contact Michael Moore. Not only would he write a check for the Veterans, he'd come film the whole thing!
And one more comment. Rather than "announce" a demonstration and another march, I feel due to the urgency of this that a press conference held NOW, certainly within the next ten days, would create the necessary buzz needed to get people motivated to join a demonstration!!!
Think about it.
Here's another contact for you: Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon. They are in NYC. How many actors do you suppose they know? Bill Maher!!! He would not only support this but he'd have the spokesman on his show!
If you guys need a good publicist, let me know.
Good Hemingway quote, Ezeflyer.
There's also this anonymous quote: "The day the old men who order young men into combat die first, will be the same day war is suddenly discovered to be unnecessary to solve our differences."
As far as the march in March: Good on these guys for being willing to speak the truth, but these are different times than when the Winter Soldier conference took place in 1971. While the print media of the day nearly ignored it, I recall Dick Cavett and others on TV welcoming the marchers for interviews, including John Kerry, and coverage by all three broadcast networks.
There was a large peace march in Washington last October and CNN casually dismissed it by claiming (with an accompanying 'close in' camera shot) that there were only between a thousand and two thousand demonstrators, no big deal. No interviews or other commentary. Meanwhile, aerial photographs of the event showed at least 200,000 at the march, but most people never knew it happened.
Sadly, the MSM will probably ignore or dismiss this event as well. Thank God Olbermann will cover it.
It is about time that the media stop sweaping these stories under the carpet. At times the truth can be mighty unpleasant, right?