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Kucinich for 'Realists'
The conventional "realist" line on Dennis Kucinich's presidential campaign goes something like: Great on the issues; terrible in the polls; can't win; need to find another candidate. This logic may be okay - unless you're actually seriously concerned with things like ending the war in Iraq or achieving universal health insurance.
In November, you vote for the presidential candidate you have to vote for. And if one of the Democrats currently leading the field in fundraising does ultimately secure the nomination, no doubt most Iraq war opponents and universal health insurance advocates will quite readily back him or her over whatever the Republicans throw up. After all, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, and Barack Obama are all against the war - more or less, and they all want to do something about health care. But the primaries are when you can vote for what you believe in - that is, if you're fortunate enough to find a candidate who agrees with you. And by that measure, you might say that serious antiwar and pro-health care voters who don't back Dennis Kucinich are, well, throwing their votes away.
After all, it's not just that the front runners won't commit to actually removing all our troops from Iraq by the end of their first term but they all go out of their way to clarify their fundamental agreement with the saber rattling policies that got us there in the first place. Edwards, for instance, insists that "To ensure that Iran never gets nuclear weapons, we need to keep all options on the table," a statement widely understood to include possible American use of nuclear weapons. For her part, Clinton pushes continued use of American troops to pursue Al Qaeda in Iraq, ignoring the fact that it was the introduction of American troops that brought Al Qaeda to Iraq in the first place, and votes to declare part of Iran's armed forces a terrorist organization. (Presumably allowing for the continued jettisoning of the Geneva Accords currently rejected in our ongoing wars.) And Obama not only outflanks his rivals, but Bush himself, in threatening military action in yet another country, warning that "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and (Pakistan's) President Musharraf won't act, we will."
Over the past five years, millions of Americans have opposed the Iraq War in word or deed and yet it would be quite a stretch to argue that any of the "top three" Democratic candidates represent them on the war. Chances are then, that if you have ever been to a demonstration or even written a letter against the war, Kucinich's positions of complete American withdrawal in ninety days, maintenance of Iraq's rights to its own oil, no permanent American military bases, and an international transition force are a lot closer to your views than those of Clinton, Edwards or Obama.
The situation regarding health care really isn't terribly different. Clinton, Edwards and Obama all have plans that if enacted might make some significant improvement upon our current situation of forty million uninsured, but none tackles the elephant at the center of the problem - the wasteful private health insurance industry that diverts billions of dollars from actual health care spending. Instead their plans will themselves require new bureaucracies to determine individual eligibility for government assistance and to look for potential insurer discrimination. And two of them would require monitoring individual compliance with a new legal mandate to purchase health insurance. Kucinich's Medicare For All plan, on the other hand, is widely recognized as a legitimate solution that would dramatically decrease the diversion of health care funds from actual health care spending.
There are two main "realist" responses to the fact that the top fundraisers offer such tepid approaches to the country's major problems. One is to tease meaningful distinctions out of their pretty similar positions and go with the one who seems ever so slightly better. The other is simply to pick the one most likely to win and hope for the best. Unfortunately, this approach produced rather dismal results last time around when some opted for Howard Dean as the "electable" antiwar candidate and others went for John Kerry as the most likely nominee. Despite all the wishful thinking about Dean (as they used to say, Kucinich actually was the candidate many people thought, or wanted to think Dean was), he was gone by the California primary, his candidacy entirely premised upon "electability" and the money that brought. Meanwhile Kerry, feeling little electoral pressure from the antiwar movement, never veered from his pro-war stance, leaving antiwar voters with little more than the hope that he didn't really support the war, but had only voted for it out of the delusion that it was politically expedient. Such were the accomplishments of "realism" in 2004.
So does voting for Kucinich in the 2008 primaries require believing that he can somehow rise to the top of the polls? Not necessarily, but it does require recognizing that you have to actually vote for your positions for them to have any electoral impact. Although we can't yet say who will get the Democratic presidential nomination, there is one thing already certain: if you don't vote for what you believe in in the primaries, you certainly won't get to vote for it in November.
And of course, if everyone who believed that no more American soldiers should die for a lie decided to actually vote that way, the polls would start to look a whole lot different.

43 Comments so far
Show AllIs there going to be an intelligent choice by dems or will it be money and perception brought on with money?Sadly you can see the train wreck coming. Tony
If Kucinich is, by some miracle, the Democratic candidate for President in 08...he gets my vote. He is the ONLY Democrat who will get my vote though. The rest of the pack are just a bunch of corporatist pawns...worthless as the American dollar...worthless as a wallet for a poor man... worthless as tits on a boar. Dennis has been talking sense ever since I can remember. It's him or I vote Green.
Thanks Tom for an engaging article. It's about time progressives stop their petty, self-righteous whining and get realistic about taking the reins of power.
I think the Presidency is a lost cause for Progressives at this point. Better to focus on finding candidates to run against conservative Democrat legislators in primaries and building local infrastructure to support that goal. Progressives will need a stronger base in the House and Senate before the Presidency comes within reach.
"Kucinich does not stand for addressing the fundamental rotteness of American capitalism". Dennis is not a panacea for America, but he is a political, shining light.
Kucinich is the best we can get -- given legitimate elections. You get what you're willing to settle for.
If Kucinich did actually win (and I agree it's a long shot) it would be a fundamental shift in the way Americans view government. Having said that, the incumbents in Congress may be inspired to act on behalf of their conscience rather than their lobbyists for their own political survival.
This is a Max Weber sort of approach in that the 'charismatic leader' could implement sweeping reforms because of their sudden popularity bypassing even traditional bureaucratic obstacles.
No doubt the War Party and the two MIC's (military and medical industrial complexes) would use their entire arsenal to prevent this. But victory by the right is by no means assured. When a populace reaches such a point of critical mass, only at that time can real and fundamental changes occur.
Rich M: Excellent post! Right on target.
One thing I would add, though, is that this article is not envisioning that Kucinich would win the nomination. What I read, and what I believe, is that a vote for Kucinich in the primaries sends a very strong message to the Dimms as to what the American people want to see in the platform for the '08 election. The corporatocracy is going to select the nominee. All we can do is affect the debate.
I'm going to vote for Kucinich in the primary. If the Dimms don't make strong stands on all the important issues in the campaign, I'll probably find a third party candidate that I can actually vote FOR that will represent the PEOPLE, not the monied interest.
I agree with RichM. But the pathetic thing is that we will never even get there (Kucinich being elected), because Americans won't even vote for someone who isn't corporate sponsored, i.e., "electable". Not even in the primary.
After the corporate candidate is announced, antiwar Americans will convince themselves, as they did in 2004 with "reporting for duty" Kerry, that the Democratic candidate has a secret plan to end the war, and that forcing all people to pay insurance companies is a solution to the health care problem. The vote total for the Greens will show how many people don't fall for the delusion. Don't expect it to be very high.
I wouldn't be surprised if President Hilary Clinton brings back the draft (it was Carter who resumed registration after Nixon abolished it) in order to provide more cannon fodder for wars in Iran and Pakistan, and maybe Saudi Arabia.
Interesting comments Rebel Farmer.
...a vote for Kucinich in the primaries sends a very strong message to the Dimms as to what the American people want...
Do you really think that's true? If it was then Nader's impact on Gore's campaign would have affected the way the form policy, but I haven't noticed a difference.
Consider the role of Pat Robertson or the NRA in affecting the Republican nomination. The "moderate" Republicans are afraid of them and either change their policies to appeal to them or at least parse their comments very carefully to avoid alienating them.
DLC Dems don't do this for Progressives, in part because they know we'll pick vainglorious losers like Kucinich in the primary then vote for the Kerrys and the Clintons anyway. If Progressives could deliver a reliable block of 5-10% of primary voters to one of the top tier Presidential candiates, the whole dynamic would shift.
But that requires organization, discipline and strategy. Unless Progressives figure out how to do that and stop chasing Max Weber's charismatic leaders they'll never have any impact on American politics.
"vainglorious losers like Kucinich"
I aver Kucinich is far more the man than you'll ever be.
Yes RichM, the system is the root of the problems, and as I've stated ad nauseum, BAU has no future. But you cannot seriously argue that Kucinich is the worst choice; otherwise, you're doing no more than selling the MSM mantra--"electability." A bit of history: Very few members of Congress supported FDR's ideas, which prompted him to become the first president to extensively use the Executive Order as a tool to circumvent Congress and inaugurated the era of the Imperial President, which BushCo has carried to its zenith.
Plus the coming recession will change many tunes, and greatly increases Kucinich's chances versus the corporatists since his campaign anticipates it and thus has already announced policy proposals to start changing the system, which is the only way we'll ever emerge from Kuntsler's Long Emergency.
I will vote for the candidate of my choice in November, 2008. I will vote for Dennis Kucinich. If the Democratic Party doesn't go along with me, I will be happy if they lose by one vote. I've heard "my way or the highway" to often. If the Democrats think they have my vote no matter what, think again.
Rich, you little veritable ray of sunshine you. I will vote for Kucinich, was incredibly angry with Nader for AOA, but this time I am voting for the best candidate. I believe this and could care less about must be's, should/ could be's not voting and such.
Kucinich, that's all.
Please bear with me while I make a mess of this...
Progressives will never win unless they unite behind somebody. ANYBODY. I happen to believe that Kucinich is The Candidate who is the best choice, but I am old enough to have respect for Gravel for what he says and what has done for our country. People talk about electability, but we should be talking about making a statement.
Many ideas that are in place today, including the 40 hr. work week, paid vactions, health insurance for workers, work place saftey, child labor laws, overtime pay, the right for women to vote,and the right to form a union were all the result of radical political parties that never won a presidency. But they made a difference for people and became important institutions, and they forced political parties to accept them or suffer defeat.
Unfortunately, many of those institutions are under seige today.
We progressives have to say to hell with the polls and vote with our hearts. Don't vote with your brain and worry about trying to block the greatest Democratic villain that you believe in. Besides, we've been living with the greatest evil for the last 7 years...
We will lose this election.
But we have to make a clear statement to the press, to the public, and the powers that be and tell them we are tired of voting for the lesser of 2, 3, 4, 5 evils. We DO need to lay groundwork of electing candidates to represent progressive values in Congress, but we need to loudly declare we find most of the Democratic selection intolerable.
Voting for lesser ideas will not gain us anything.
johnedwards.com
O roe: "but this time I am voting for the best candidate. I believe this and could care less about must be's, should/ could be's not voting and such. Kucinich, that's all."
Well said from someone who isn't trying to intellectualize us to death, looking for reasons NOT to support Kucinich (THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR WE THE PEOPLE!), or spouting bullshit that apparently appeared in their crystal ball!
Damn, people! You could dig deep enough to find something on Mother Theresa so as to tarnish HER! Geezus K-rhist! What are you waiting for? God ain't gonna be running for Prez this go 'round!
If we end up with holding our noses or not even going to the polls next November because Hillary gets the nomination, then YOU who would rather dig for tiny flaws (In YOUR mind anyway) or continue forecasting a Kucinich candidacy or Presidency as faulty, have no reason to bitch and whine for the next four to eight years. PERIOD!!!
RichM said:
"Sure, Kucinich & Gravel are the only halfway-decent Democrats. But even they stand for a kind of magical thinking — a desperate attempt to believe that our basic political/economic system is OK, but that our problem is just that we've got the wrong guy at the top...Kucinich is trying to get antiwar voters to believe that the hideous monster America has become, can be made good again, by working "within the system" and voting for a liberal Democrat."
The diff between Kucinich and Gravel is that Gravel wants to change the system while Kucinich wants to work within it. Gravel would use the referendum (The National Initiative) to let the people decide, not politicians or their oligarch masters.
John F. Butterfield said:
"I will vote for the candidate of my choice in November, 2008. I will vote for Dennis Kucinich. If the Democratic Party doesn't go along with me, I will be happy if they lose by one vote. I've heard "my way or the highway" to often. If the Democrats think they have my vote no matter what, think again."
If the likely Dem candidates and Bush are on the same page, why should they care if they lose to Repugs as long as they
get their graft and their cushy jobs? Might's well vote for the candidate of our choice.
gavingurley said:
"DLC Dems don't do this for Progressives, in part because they know we'll pick vainglorious losers like Kucinich in the primary then vote for the Kerrys and the Clintons anyway. If Progressives could deliver a reliable block of 5-10% of primary voters to one of the top tier Presidential candiates, the whole dynamic would shift. But that requires organization, discipline and strategy. Unless Progressives figure out how to do that and stop chasing Max Weber's charismatic leaders they'll never have any impact on American politics."
If progressives all got together and decided to vote for the same candidate, it would probably be Kucinich. My choice would be Gravel because he has a workable plan to fix our entire corrupt system. The duopoly is scared of him because they realize that Gravel's plan would take away their money-power and so have kept him out of the "debates". But most progressives here support Kucinich, so I would go along with that if we could ever get together on one candidate. Then as if they cared, we would have to make it perfectly clear to the DLC that we will ALL vote for that candidate, not theirs.
Lonelooney says "We progressives have to say to hell with the polls and vote with our hearts." and then he follows with
"We will lose this election." What total bullshit logic. Voting "our hearts" will never be the wrong
decision. I am voting my heart in 2008 and believe that if a majority of Americans do the same thing,
we will retake our country and secure our democracy. Not because dk can do it all, but because it sends a
message that we Americans are willing to do things differently. It sends a message that a majority of "us"
think that Americans are not all that special or that we're God's chosen ones, or any bullcrap like that. We are no better than
any other human beings on the planet. It also sends a message that corporate American citizens no longer
rule just because they have a majority of the wealth. They are in the minority because "we the people" greatly outnumSber them.
So if you're not registered to vote yet, get your ass in gear unless you think living in a police state might be
cool. Vote Dennis Kucinich in the primaries and then become an active, political citizen of the planet .
Its Dennis or I'll vote for Greeen
Rich M does have a point: the problem is the system, not individuals. However, voting for Kucinich in the primaries is going to cost you what, half an hour of your time? The problem comes after that, when the MSM gets everyone persuaded that we all love Hillary and must vote for her...or the Republican version of her.
Also want to agree with whoever pointed out FDR, at least had the PTB known what he stood for, was surely equally "unelectable," yet he was elected four times. Once people saw the difference he made, there was no way They could get rid of him. Of course, that was before TV...Unfortunately, I think it does take the stark misery of a Depression, or the poverty of the average Venezuelan, to get people to see through the propaganda.
RichM, you said of Kucinich and Gravel, "they stand for a kind of magical thinking — a desperate attempt to believe that our basic political/economic system is OK, but that our problem is just that we've got the wrong guy at the top."
This is not true of either one.
Kucinich advocates fundamental health care reform with the elimination of insurance companies. He wants to change the two-party system to a multi-party democracy via proportional representation in the legislatures. (Like Ireland, Germany or Sweden). He seeks a new cabinet-level Department for Peace. He wants to abide by international law (a 180 degree change from nearly 200 years of US foreign policy dating to 1819.) He wants to eliminate private money from electoral politics, substituting public financing. He proposes to re-tool our entire society for sustainability. I could go on.
RichM or anyone else, if you want to know what Kucinich stands for, read the issues section on his website here:
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/
It is virtual duplication of or elaboration on the true progressive policies of Ralph Nader and the Green Party.
gavingurley----your plan makes no sense to me---progressives are supposed to join together to offer the DLC our block of votes to one of THEIR candidates??????----Gee sounds like a plan to me. WHere do I sign up???, (sarcasm)
And what exactly are we going to get out of this that we actually care about? Frankly I have no intention of making nice with the DLC--the Rethug trojan horse who infected/diluted what little people-power was left in the Democratic party.
What are you talking about man????? Are you just so darned eager to "get some respect?", you just want a damned place at the table no matter what poison is being served? And you consider yourself a progressive? Guess I'll just have to find a different way to characterize myself if that's what "progressives" are all about these days.
Clinton's people (DLC all the way) said they don't need us "lefties" to win, which is why she doesn't feel the need to offer anything to the "base". So correct me if I'm wrong, but we should be trying to negotiate from this powerful position? NAH! I don't think so.
Let the DLC have their corporate merger with the Dems. Progressives should unite alright and tell the Dems "We're outta here. Get along without 5-10% of your base." Why do we stay with a party that stomps on our dreams and aspirations and laughs in our faces and tells us in so many words, " Well, you've got no place else to go,now do you?"
So to sumarise Vote for Dennis in your states primary, then write him in in the general election.
Now I KNOW I'm in a horrible nightmare! I just read where ROBERT KENNEDY JR. has endorsed Clinton! Somebody wake me.
in michigan we have a very limited choice due to dlc kowtowing to iowa and new hampshire. but we CAN choose dennis kucinich. wouldn't it knock hillary's socks off if dennis won michigan?
As principled as Kucinich seems, it's obvious to me he's just another brick in the wall. He's not pushing actual political solutions as Direct Democracy ( Vote yes for National Referendum at http://ni4d.org ). It seems he wouldn't even want Americans to consider eliminating career politicians for direct control of federal law. He's got great rhetoric about how he would do things. However his command would only be expanded by the ideas he forwards. I'm fairly certain Kucinich is just another dominant finance serving player, but with a leftist air to him. That he isn't speaking out on what is obvious, that dominant finance sets the US national agenda AND the presidential agenda, and so short much consideration at all of the thoughts of the sitting president, speaks to his business as usual aspiration. If he didn't do what the dominant financial told him to do, he would be dead, not running for president.
I made up my mind some time ago. I'm a lifelong registered Democrat. Assuming there will be an election next year - and I have my doubts! - I will vote for Dennis Kucinich or I will not vote. Dennis is the ONLY candidate who represents me. If he is NOT on the ballot then I will NOT vote.
I am sick and tired and fed up with voting for the lesser of two evils. As far as I can see, there is virtually NO difference between the rest of the candidates and the frontrunners of King George's party, aka GOP.
There is even a more principled reason to vote for Kucinich in the primaries: he has collected very little funds for campaigning.
But what an ELECTION is about, is not about funds: it's about your vote. To make sure they listen in Washington you must scream harder than the money.
Secondly, even when Edwards, Obama and Clinton are 'somehow' for stopping the war or for improvements in health care, they do it hesitantly, more as a reaction to the people and they are not at all convincing. Kucinich is a LEADER in this, since he took a stance on the issues long before they became popular.
If Kucinich somehow wins the primaries, I am sure that the funding for the Republican candidate starts to increase, even though they are not doing too well now in the 'money primaries', but as the U.S. electorate, you should stand your ground. What you vote for, that is what counts in the end, not what the corporations 'gamble' for.
Earthian; Very good post. There comes a time in one's life when you have to disregard the odds and do the right thing. I left the Democratic Party in disgust after the 2004 election. In the Green Party, our stated positions are progressive and right to the point, especially what I call, (and I speak for myself) governmental legalization of murder, or war. For as long as Common Dreams has opened a comments section, about 90% or more of you endorse Kucinich. The other selections of the 10% are Paul, Gravel, or Nader.
On my paper ballot, I will write in Dennis Kucinich in the primary election, and come next year, if he is not the Democratic candidate, I'll write his name in anyway. Let me say this: Nader or Gravel would be terrific as well as Dennis and I'd be tickled pink for either of the three to be sitting in the White House.
You want to change the system? The task will be monumental, like it was for FDR, but when the 'common people' have somebody on their side in a key position, wonderful progressive ideas will emenate from 'qualified' progressive people that 'our president' will have placed in administrative positions. FDR's New Deal was unique and it worked for the most part. He appointed qualified folks in key positions. The three gentleman mentioned would do the same and before you know it, an American Renaissance would unfold, and after eight horrible years of Republican and Democratic shysters dismantling almost everything worthy of our country, there will be a restitution of all that has been taken from us by these corrupt officials.
On the other hand, maybe I'm pipe-dreaming, and the only thing that will cause the American people to really be united and to change our destructive course of murder, torture, fear-mongering, and imperial ambitions, is for dozens of our cities and towns to look like Hiroshima, Nagesaki, Berlin, Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, and the unmentioned ones. Don't think it can't happen here? The Samurai and the Superman thought they were invincible too, but were humbled in the end.
Who will Preident Kucinich appoint as Secretary of The Department of Peace teaching UN diplomats non-violent conflict resolution?
Thank you John Lennon for writing "IMAGINE"
I will vote for Dennis in the primaries. The rest of the candidates leave me so disgusted I really don't know what I'll do in November. I do know this:
I may never vote again in this useless and broken system.
I voted for Dennis K. in the 2004 primary. Couldn't bring myself to vote for Kerry, so I voted for Nader. Voted for Nader in 2000 as well, as I couldn't bring myself to vote for Gore. Presently I will vote for Dennis K. in the up coming primary but I will not continue to support the Democratic Party's choice if it isn't who I think will serve my interests and be good for the country.
If Kucinich doesn't win the primary, I wish he'd leave the Dem. Party and continue on his own.
Thanks Tom~Any friends of yours that might help keep Kucinich in the media with an ounce of respect and legitimacy?More Kucinich coverage is needed. I certainly am voting for Kucinich in the Primaries, and if everyone did that really believes Kucinich is voicing their ideals, we might be greatly surprised by the results. Then Hillary would have to show her true colors, and do a Leiberman and invent The Democrats for Hillary Party. This is not only a chance for Real Change, voting for Dennis Kucinich in the Primaries, but a chance to take down the damn Neo-Dems along with the Pugs in one election. Buh Bye Rahm. Buh Bye Pelosi~and to think she could have been our first woman President! VOTE FOR DENNIS IN THE PRIMARIES..LET'S SEE WHAT WE'VE GOT.
RichM,
Very eloquently and clearly stated. The system has ingeniously designed all the mechanisms to ensure its perpetuation( an immune system for the corporate-state, if you will). Putting all our hopes on a saviour figure merely creates a cult of personality. We need to figure out a way to dismantle the system while simultaneously building a new one( Michael Albert's parecon theory offers a promising direction) After saying all of that, I will still vote for Kucinich, but I'm notpinning all of my hopes on that.
The Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela happened through the elections within the existing corrupt system. With the legitimacy of his presidency, the people were then able to transform their government through a new constitution, that was created at the community level and voted on by popular referendum. Kucinich is now hosting online townhall meetings about restoring our constitution - a good first step, and one that I hope will lead to people thinking about other kinds of rights and freedoms it should include (like rights for the environment that cannot be usurped by corporate interests).
I believe Dennis is definitely not "another brick in the wall" as someone here suggested. I recently had the good fortune to spend a little time with Dennis and Elizabeth and they are, if I can say this, "one of us". They "get it" on every level and would use their position in office to mobilize and give power to the people. Which is why mainstream media has their marching orders to marginalize him at all costs. There is that clip (forget which one of the big mouths shows) where the talkin head media types basically admitted the only reason he isn't in the lead is because of them. You can see it on his website http://www.dennis4president.com
The NYTimes is busy demonizing Chavez because he is reacting to the US of Oil's concerted effort to destroy him.
Hello, Common Dreamers. This is my first post here after years of lurking.
No, Kucinich is NOT the answer to the ravages of global corporate governance. No, Kucinich, in the unworldly possibility he would actually get elected, will have virtually no support from his own party. He will not be the great enemy of American capitalism.
But, yes, I'll be voting for him in the primaries. Does that matter at all? No, it doesn't.
Envision a spectrum of voting strategies that, at one end, chooses the traditional and destructive lesser of the evils and, at the other end, votes only if a candidate shares (or at least substantially shares) what I call the "ultimate vision." Kucinich does not share my ultimate vision. Sadly, he's very likely to support the eventual Democratic Party nominee. If Kucinich wants to truly lead the progressive cause, absconding with our votes in an ultimate sell-out to the Party's controlling corporate-wing is not the kind of leadership we need.
Having said that, however, can anyone deny that having Kucinich as President, instead of, say, Hillary, would not provide at least a degree of confidence that when the next corporate war is summoned he would stand with us? Using America's military to acquire ground and resources is the primary modus operandi of the corporate state. Kucinich may never have the support he needs or even the inclination to dismantle the capitalist infrastructure but standing solidly in the peace camp, and there's no denying he does, would be one giant leap for mankind.
The sad truth I see is that global corporate governance is not going to be challenged by pulling on little voting levers in little voting booths in little towns all across America. Should you vote? Sure, why not? As long as you can endorse some or most ideas of a candidate, go for it. Just don't see it as a meaningful path for change.
And what is the answer to bringing about the changes we need? I've been lurking here for years looking for the seeds of an idea. Ain't seen nothin' yet. How depressing is that?
ezeflyer; Correct! I was listening to 'The Morning Show on KPFA 94.1 FM radio yesterday, and a gentleman was on who gave a great talk on Chavez, whom he spoke to personally. Hugo is a kind man with a sense of humor and is not at all malicious as the NYT and others portray him. If you have audio streaming on your computer, please listen to the broadcast, ezeflyer. The best to you!
Anti-Chavez bias at the liberal NY Times? Don't be absurd. That's just not possible. Unless you consider this bias ...
If you haven't seen what should be the Numero Uno story in the MSM but never will be, check this out: http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkframe.php?linkid=46577
And how does the NY Times, the bastion of left-wing American journalism cover the story? Well, here you go right from today's paper: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/world/americas/30venez.html
Now, if you dig past all the anti-Chavez propaganda, you arrive at this strange admission from the Times:
"American involvement in Venezuelan politics remains a particularly delicate issue here, after the Bush administration tacitly supported a coup in 2002 that briefly ousted Mr. Chávez."
Tacitly, they say. Well, I looked up the meaning of "tacitly" by double-clicking on it right in the Times article. The Times has its own internal dictionary. Here's what they say "tacitly" means:
"Not spoken: indicated tacit approval by smiling and winking."
What the Times is telling us is that they KNOW that the extent of US involvement in the 2002 coup to overthrow Chavez was limited to smiling and winking. Stated another way, the Times is asserting that the US had no direct involvement. It's their definition; not mine.
One has to wonder just exactly how they KNEW the extent of US participation in the coup.
And then we come to the Times' comments about the leaked CIA memo (see first link in this post). Did the Times fairly evaluate the credibility of the leaked document by hearing from both sides. Noooooooooooooo ... of course not. Here is their "objective" assessment of the document's credibility:
"We reject and are disappointed in the Venezuelan government's allegations that the United States is involved in any type of conspiracy to affect the outcome of the constitutional referendum," Benjamin Ziff, a spokesman for the United States Embassy here, said in a statement.
A C.I.A. spokesman called the document "a fake," while analysts, including investigators who had previously uncovered financing of Venezuelan opposition groups by the United States government, expressed doubts about the authenticity of the memo.
"I find the document quite suspect," said Jeremy Bigwood, an independent researcher in Washington. "There's not an original version in English, and the timing of its release is strange."
Kind of one sided, wouldn't you say? I mean, all they've done is cast doubt but they've provided ZERO information to support a conclusion. ZERO!
The final scene in the movie "Three Days of the Condor" suggested that the NY Times might be nothing but a propaganda outlet for the CIA. It just might be true ...
Higgins: Hey, Turner! How do you know they'll print it? You can take a walk. But how far if they don't print it?
Joe Turner: They'll print it.
Higgins: How do you know?
WELSH TERRIER 2 -- Welcomes to the commons, may you find connection and stir things up and make us all think more keenly.
Namaste … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Mahatma Gandhi … … … … … … … … … …
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I love Dennis...and could even accept Ron Paul...as both of these men uphold the Constitution and are for peace...which are the only major issues right now, as we are on the brink of cataclysmic economic disaster...i.e. Great Depression x2
By themselves, they will get shunned as Dennis has in the past and is now.
Together?
I actually feel very sorry for whomever gets elected next, as they will have a huge mess to clean up.
Put the two together...a Republican and Democrat ticket/independent with Dennis and Ron Paul as pres/vice...was done in the 1800's, and may be the only way to save what is left of our 'free' country.
Welsh Terrier 2; Good stuff. "Three Days of the Condor" was an excellent movie and undoubtedly an even better book. (I didn't read it) I only saw it in the late 70's when it was made, but I remember all the double and triple agents in it. DIS-INFORMATION is paramount to persuade people to do your bidding.
In the spring of 1995, there was an excellent article in either "Harper's Weekly" or "The Atlantic Monthly", by Paul Fussell (I think?) about Nazi Germany. The article basically said that the government had a 100% stranglehold on the press as well as film and radio and bombared the people with mis-information about everything, especially German war casualties. That was taboo. After so long, most of the folks went along with the program, and the 'freethinkers' kept to themselves or stayed in contact with a small select group that could be trusted against Gestapo infiltration, but the Nazis even penetrated some of these groups.
Shame on the "New York Times" for beating the war drums as a reason to invade Iraq. They have kept the reporting on the death, destruction, misery, and suffering, plus the looting of that country by the United States from the record. We are just as bad as the people we fought against in WW2.
I forgot one important thing. Listening to the Thom Hartmann show on "Air America" this morning, Thom took another quick straw poll as he did last month. The call-in votes went like this- 36 for Edwards
32 for Kucinich
7 for Clinton
7 for Obama
and some of the others receive a few votes including a write-in for Al Gore and some Reverand (?)
So much for the MSM/Murdock/NYT misinformation campaign propelling Clinton and Obama in the lead.
In the straw pol last month, it was Edwards first, then Kucinich second, with Clinton and Obama getting only one vote, if I remember correctly.
It is hard to find places to hear Dennis. However, I did wade through all the self-congratulatory stuff (a lot of it probably necessary considering the venue) on this web site ...
http://www.movementvisionlab.org/blog/hpf-video-footage
Dennis is about 1/3 the way through. Edwards, Dodd, Clinton (by audio link) and Obama were also given similar slots. My computer froze at least five or six times, but only when Dennis was speaking ... strange eh?