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Bush's Nuclear 'Reprocessing' Plan Under Fire
NEW YORK - The Bush administration is pushing for plans to reuse spent nuclear fuel in power reactors across the United States, but key senators and nuclear analysts have raised economic and security concerns about reusing the weapons-grade fuel.
"We have serious concerns about the implications of current plans for commercial spent fuel reprocessing," a group of seven Democratic and one Republican senators told Byron Dorgan (D-ND), chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development Appropriations, in a letter last week.
The letter urged Dorgan and Ranking Member Pete Domenici (R-NM) to cut funding for spent fuel reprocessing in an energy appropriations bill that is expected to be considered along with many other spending plans next month.
The reprocessing is being promoted as part of the administration's Global Nuclear Energy Partnership (GNEP), a plan to form an international partnership to reprocess spent nuclear fuel in a way that renders the plutonium in it usable for nuclear energy but not for nuclear weapons.
The energy and water development appropriations bill currently before the Senate would provide $243 million for the initiative, whereas the House version would commit $120 million.
Those who signed the letter include Senators Russ Feingold (D-WI), Ron Wyden (D-OR), John Sununu (R-NH), Tom Harkin (D-IA), Bernard Sanders (D-VT), John Kerry (D-MA), Daniel Akaka (D-HI), and Edward Kennedy (D-MA).
The eight senators said reprocessing is "not a solution" to the problem of nuclear waste and held that it could weaken U.S. efforts to halt global nuclear proliferation. In addition, they argued that the Energy Department's plans could cost taxpayers at least $200 billion.
Arms control activists have welcomed the senators' call for funding cuts and said their letter reflects a growing skepticism in Congress about the administration's reprocessing initiative.
"There are a variety of concerns about the program ranging from cost, to nuclear proliferation risks, to past failures in this area," said Leonor Tomero, director for nuclear nonproliferation at the Washington, DC-based Center for Arms Control and nonproliferation.
In her view, the Energy Department's request for hundreds of millions of dollars is not reasonable because its initiative and the GNEP "will not provide a viable solution" to the nuclear waste problem.
The Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources recently held a hearing on GNEP where many of its members expressed their concerns and raised serious questions about the Energy Department's plans.
In addition to the senators' objections, the administration's current proposal has also been criticized by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a pro bono committee of experts that advises the federal government on scientific issues. In its annual report this year, the NAS described the Energy Department's plan as an "unwise" effort that lacked "economic justification."
Although the administration has failed to provide an official cost analysis of the entire program, critics say it is clear that reprocessing is drastically more expensive than the current practice of "once through" fuel cycle systems.
In 1996, for example, the NAS estimated reprocessing and transmutation could easily cost $100 billion to deal only with the current spent fuel, and said technical challenges likely will result in GNEP costing -- rather than saving -- money.
And the nuclear power industry has expressed no interest in cost sharing, almost ensuring that the entire burden would fall on taxpayers.
At the recent hearing NAS scientists said there was no need for GNEP and held that the administration's accelerated timetable and efforts to initiate commercial-scale facilities "will create significant technical and financial risks."
Noting that previous efforts to reprocess and reuse spent fuel had failed, the senators recalled in their letter how, in 1983, Congress canceled the Clinch River Breeder Reactor, initially estimated to cost $400 million, when GAO cost estimates reached $8.8 billion.
In 1972, the West Valley, New York reprocessing facility was shut down as well, after only reprocessing in its six years of operation the equivalent of four months of spent fuel produced by the current fleet of U.S . reactors, whose $5.3 billion cleanup effort is still ongoing.
"The GNEP has morphed into a large-scale construction project well beyond research and development, they said, even though the technologies that GNEP proposes are not available.
Since first unveiling GNEP in February 2006, the administration has changed its plans "at least four times," the senators stated in the letter, explaining that much of the essential technology "will not be viable for 40-50 years."
"The GNEP hinges on the development and deployment of dozens of fast-neutron reactors," the senators said, but added that not one has been commercialized anywhere, "despite 50 years of U.S. and international research."
According to the recently released Keystone Center report, which is the product of a federal, industry, academic, and nonprofit collaboration, "reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel does not eliminate the need for a geologic repository, because there is residual high level waste from the reprocessing stream that needs to be sequestered in a geologic repository."
The report concluded that reprocessing would only divert attention away from a viable long-term solution to nuclear waste, and the GNEP program may further complicate the waste disposal problem as it proposes to reprocess spent fuel from not only new domestic reactors, but also from foreign reactors.
The senators warned that the administration's proposed technologies would also result in material that could be easily processed to make a nuclear weapon.
In their letter, the senators noted that commercial reprocessing in Britain, France, Japan, and Russia has resulted in the accumulation of about 250 metric tons of separated plutonium that can be used to make nuclear weapons, exacerbating the risk of terrorists gaining access to this material.
"At a time when the United States is seeking to limit the spread of reprocessing technology and expertise to other countries," they said, "resuming reprocessing would reverse decades of U.S. leadership that contributed to countries such as Argentina, Brazil, South Korea, and Taiwan abandoning their reprocessing ambitions."
The Bush administration is trying to promote nuclear power as a clean energy source that would reduce dependence on fossil fuels, whose use is a major contributor to dangerous climate changes.
But many environmentalists and scientists, who see nuclear reactors as dangerous, say nuclear power undermines real solutions to climate change by diverting resources away from the massive development of renewable energy sources.
"Nuclear reactors are not safe because, in addition to natural disasters, they are also vulnerable to unintentional human error," says Norman Dean of Friends of the Earth (FoE), a network of hundreds of environmental groups around the world.
To Dean, there are many other ways to fight global warming, such as energy conservation and wind and solar power, which are cleaner and safer than nuclear power.
Similar views have also expressed by a number of leading European politicians on the use of nuclear energy for non-military purposes.
Last year in April, former environment ministers from European countries, including Russia, sent a letter to then-UN chief Kofi Annan urging him to reform the mandate of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and stop promoting the use of nuclear energy.
"Nuclear power is no longer necessary," they said in the letter. "We have now numerous renewable technologies available to guarantee the right to safe, clean, and cheap energy."
© 2007 One World.net
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94 Comments so far
Show AllPaul K
You are lacking in terminology/education.
"There is no such thing as rendering Plutonium in a form that is workable for nuclear energy but unworkable as a bioweapon."
There is no such thing as a Pu bioweapon. Bioweapons are formed from living/semi-living organisms such as bacteria or a virus. Anthrax, equine encephalitis, or the real bogeyman, smallpox are all bioweapons. Even botulin toxin (though it is produced through a biological process) while commonly considered a bio-weapon is in fact a form of chemical warfare because it can not reproduce once it has entered a host. Pu can be a toxic, a radiological weapon (dirty bomb), or a nuclear device, but not a bioweapon. Assuming you meant radiological weapon, you are wrong.
"Have a suicidal flunky take the fuel rods out of the reactor and lay them all on the ground together in a critical pile. Poof! All the plutonium is now vaporized into billions of tiny breathable dust particles. Same effect as dropping the bomb, but leaves the houses standing."
Cannot happen. Said flunky would be dead before he could finish pulling a single rod. Spent fuel is what is termed "self-protecting". The emitted radiation, in the abscence of protecting water or cask, is so fierce that anyone attempting to handle it would simply die in minutes. Third generation reactor designs quite simply, cannot melt down under any circumstances, let alone generate enough heat to vaporize Pu.
"By the way, DU is a biological weapon."
Absurdly wrong, as explained above. If you want to weigh in on issues of science, please get a background in the subject matter first.
DU isn't a biological weapon when used in ammunition, burned and ionized when fired? I do believe it is you who should do a little background work, take the time to read this link. DU not only is a radiation hazard when inhaled, it IS a biological weapon when it alters our DNA etc.
http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/background.htm
Of course one can argue terminology all day. The fact remains, atomic energy and or use of nuclear waste for weapons is insane.
THE PRODUCTION OF ELECTRICITY UTILIZING HEAT FROM NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY IS ONLY 5% EFFICIENT! IT IS A RIDULOUS, NON-RENEWABLE RESOURCE TO CONSIDER IN HELPING WITH OUR ENERGY NEEDS. RENEWABLE IS THE KEY WORD! RENEWABLE. SOLAR! WIND! TIDAL! CURRENT! GEYSERS! HYDROGEN (WHICH IS 95% EFFICIENT)!
NUCLEAR IS 5% EFFICIENT, AND, CONSIDERING THE RISKS AND DAMAGES TO OUR HEALTH AND ENVIRONMENT, OFF THE TABLE!
jfernst
Wow, typing in all caps sure impresses me with the validity of your rant. The exclamation points are particularly effective. You must be right if you use that much emphasis. I can't wait until we get a lid on "Old Faithful" and start putting it to work so that we can shut some of those dirty nukes down.
I have a hearing aid, you don't have to yell.
Your yelling is correct however, if you are attempting to get the message WAY OUT THERE!
Kem
Terminology might not be everything, but it is alot. It is difficult to have a rational conversation when I say apple and you say orange.
Engineers, clowns, cops, and child-molesters are all forms of people. If you are a cop (or even a clown) do you want me thinking it's equivalent to being a child-molester?
A biological weapon is not a weapon that attacks biota (life and living things). All lethal weapons (and non-lethal weapons, sometimes) by virtue of definition attack biota. You have displayed a level of intelligence in these boards that belies the ignorance of a statement like "DU is a biological weapon". If you are not going to take the effort to use the correct terminology, why would anyone bother to take you any more seriously then THE REALLY LOUD SHOUTING PERSON?
I DUNNO KENPOTTER, I AM REALLY A RATHER DULL, UNIFORMED AND IGNORANT PERSON, WHO BELIEVES THAT IF __DU __WILL CAUSE CANCER IN MY LUNG OR BRAIN, ALTER MY DNA AND CAUSE MANY OTHER SERIOUS DISEASES IF I SHOULD INHALE ANY, IT IS A WEAPON THAT INTERFERES WITH THE NORMAL BIOLOGY OF MY LIVING CELLS. I STUPIDELY THOUGHT THAT WAS A BIOLOGICAL WEAPON IN THOSE REGARDS. I KNOW "DU" RADIATES LITTLE TINY ATOM CHANGING ELECTRONS AND STUFF TOOOO. ___ SCARY STUFF THOSE ATOMS.
IF I USED THE WRONG WORD, I AM TRULY SORRY FOR BEING SO STUPID TO MIS-LEAD ANYONE. DON'T NOBOBY EVER READ ANYTHNIG I EVER WRITE HERE AGAIN. AND DON'T BOTHER TO READ THAT GOOD LINK I POSTED, BECAUSE IT MAY HARM YOUR BRAIN THOUGHTS AND SHIT LIKE THAT. THANK YOU KENPPOTTER FOR ENLIGHTENING ME AND PUTTNG ME N MY PROPER PLACE. IS IT OKAY WITH YOU IF I WRITE ABOUT PLAYBOY CENTERFOLDS?
Hows about if I say apple and you say orange?
Then are you wrong or do we just wish to argue over words usage that any can understand? Thank you for the astute lessons BTW. My IQ is pretty low.
Kem,
You can write Playboy centerfolds if you want - doesn't sound like a bad job to me. However, you still can't change the physical properties of DU. It is not and cannot be by definition very hazardous, radiologically. It is far more hazardous as a toxic, heavy metal (we've been over this ground, before). I don't care if you want to call bubblegum a biological weapon, it doesn't make it so. You are much more likely (many thousands of times) to die due to the effects of a biological agent, like the flu, than from DU. Driving your car is the most dangerous activity you will ever engage in. But, what the hell, worry about what you want. It is a harmless past-time.
Gee KENPOTTER, I learned something myself today:
from wikpedia: "Biological warfare (BW), also known as a germ warfare, biological weapons, and bioweapons, is the use of any pathogen (bacterium, virus or other disease-causing organism) as a weapon of war.
Note that using nonliving toxic products, even if produced by living organisms (e.g., toxins), is considered Chemical warfare under the provisions of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CCW).
A biological weapon may be intended to kill, incapacitate or seriously impede an adversary. It may also be defined as the material or defense against such employment."
How does this petty CCW definition change the biological facts of serious health impacts for those close to exploded DU - which BTW, is not supposed to be any kind of "weapon", as we're told that it's inert and sooo depleted too. That it kills by both its chemical and radiologic properties makes it 10-fold worse from my perspective.
If DU so benign, would you allow massive (ton) quantities in your city and/or around your kids and extended family (that you like)?
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
Wow Namaste,
I just learned something myself. If I stand on the science rather than completely agreeing with the most hysterical ranters on the board, my description of DU can magically change from "toxic heavy metal" to "benign".
Gosh, it's like magic. I think I will start to believe in that instead, since it doesn't appear to make much difference.
Sorry, the edit bunged up, and I wasn't able to make my post more benign.
I had interpreted that from your comment "DU. It is not and cannot be by definition very hazardous, radiologically."
So how benign is it to you, the same as stretching out on the natively occurring raw ore?
I do believe that KENDPOTTER has never bothered to read the entire, or perhaps any of the link I offered. Of course he may discover that he is, and has been, wrong and fears admitting such. He continually puts out the same old government spin on the DU issue.
If he/she will argue the points given by the scientists who were at that conference, instead of me, I may be more appreciative of his comments. I only offer the opinions of those far more qualifed to speak on the subject than I am.
BTW, I was once a coach driver and have over two milion miles of accident free driving, or even scratching a coach. So I don't fear dying while driving my car. I do fear the continual use of DU as a weapon and as such polluting the entire planet with radio-active waste matter. You are free to believe what you wish, it's still a free country.
Kem
Would you be kind enough to explain to me how I offended you? I read your links, referred to you as an "intelligent guy". Yet somehow, just because I prefer to suspend judgment until I see something that is the product of a well designed study, that has been peer-reviewed, and published in a scientific journal such as "Journal of the American Health Physics Society", I am scum.
You may be the greatest driver in the world, but that won't stop some idiot, drunk from killing you. The odds are far better than from DU doing you in. The worst weapons of WWI including the Maxim machine gun, rapid fire artillery (like the French 75), tanks, planes, and poison gas killed only a fragment of the number of people that perished due to the Spanish Influenza pandemic of 1918.
nspire
DU is less of a radiological risk than naturally occurring uranium. The most radiolical fractions (isotopes U-234 and U-235) are removed during the enrichment process. The remaining uranium is almost entirely U-238 which is a alpha and beta emitter. What little gamma is emitted (along with any beta or alpha not emitted directly from the surface) tends to be blocked by the outer layers. There is virtually no radiological hazard from external exposure. Inhalation is a different story. However, the chemical toxicity (uranium is a heavy metal and has chemical toxicity like arsenic) tends to overshadow the radiological effects. Renal (kidney) damage starts to occurr at 3 micrograms/gram of tissue. That is what is known. You are free to believe as you like, but you are taking it on the faith of someone's word (no different from an evangelical Christian preacher in my book) not peer-reviewed science.
If you want to run around "the sky is falling" style proclaiming the dangers of DU, fine. Just don't let it distract you while you are in the crosswalk, because that bus bearing down on you is a much more imminent danger.
CONTINUING THE QUESTION ON DEAP EARTH RADIOACTIVE WASTE DISPOSAL. See my post above.
Thanks PJD, KEM PATRICK and WTF for your responses to my question in an earlier post above. All three posts have valid issues and information that I would like to continue here as dispassionately as possible in a scientific manner to at least get our information correct before we enter into discussion and opinion on the ethics of nuclear energy etc.
There is absolutely no debate between FUSION nuclear energy (that we get from the Sun) and FISSION (atomic nucleus breaking apart) nuclear energy that we now get from the Uranium and Plutonium nuclear reactors today.
The former is clean as whistle and the latter is dirty and lethal. It is not that the energy itself is lethal; it is the radioactive waste generated from the RADIACTIVE MATERIALS that are used to harvest the nuclear fission energy. That cannot be dumped into a standard garbage dump. It needs to be stored away from life forms for thousands and sometimes millions of years.
IF it is possible to use the BUILT-IN ( by Nature) cleansing processes of Mother Earth to store or even clean the stuff its bowels of the Earth- -and I literally mean the BOWELS - - away from any useful-to-life resources that ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT be contaminated, such as water and small bio-organisms, THEN the "dirty" nuclear energy becomes clean as whistle also.
That is one reason why I raised the question of deep Earth storage in the first place. The second important reason is that fusion energy, even in the amount that is needed in a small sized city such as Eugene Oregon or Palo Alto, California, is not currently technically feasible and won't be for the next 25 years at the minimum, and 50 years realistically.
Why? Well the Russian, American, European and Japanese (perhaps now India and China too) scientists have been working on commercial fusion energy for the last 50 years and have got very little ahead of their last position about 15 to 20 years ago. In research facilities at Princeton, Russia, CERN in Europe and others, using the TOKAMAK reactor, originally designed in the Soviet Union in the 1970's, and its descendents, they have been able to achieve fusion in a minute little dot in the middle of a vacuum to last a few milliseconds or a little more. Nuclear fusion plasma temperatures, like the core of the Sun, reach around 100 million degrees Celsius. At these temperatures nothing made of matter remains in its original state; it becomes nuclear plasma. Obviously then that "dot" had to be held suspended by enormous magnetic fields in vacuum.
This makes nuclear fusion not a viable option to stave off peak-oil and climate change disaster.
Also there is no such thing as "cold fusion" from chemical reactions, earlier hoaxes not withstanding.
As for the other renewable sources such as solar, wind and ocean power, and so forth, there is no scientifically known configuration of these to be able to replace even 10 million barrels of oil a day in the next 5 years. The world consumes 85 million barrels of oil a day today. And that is at PEAK OIL now or past it (many experts say the peak occurred in 2005). Consumption is increasing because of the rapid industrialization of China and India, and in the next 5 years it will increase to 90-95 million barrels per day, which is 10 million over peak.
The price of oil does not move up LINEARLY! It moves up EXPONENTIALLY. This means that a 10 million-barrel a day shortfall will cause prices to rise to $150 or more per barrel from today's $90-95.
This is a recipe for endless wars by imperial powers such as the US. Further, in addition to the horrific loss in human life and suffering in the ME where the most oil resources are located, and the $trillions wasted in arms and fighting and health care, and the wars will take away the world's attention, will and resources away from addressing Global Climate Change which will require cooperative actions and $trillions in money immediately.
So the only viable option we now have to avoid further catastrophe is fission nuclear energy combined with the alternative sources, to minimize reliance on nuke energy as much as technically possible.
This having been said let us continue our discussion of the deep storage or other above ground storage as KEM suggests. WTF's point is extremely important that any storage area should be safely away from underground water (aquifer) resources. I would go even further - - it should be inside solid granite and igneous rock as found deep inside mountains, AWAY from ANY LIFE FORM or LIFE SUSTAINING SUBSTANCE. That is why the price tag is going to high.
PJD: Thanks for the starting information. What I am surprised (and possibly I am under- or misinformed on this one) by is fact that in the fierce debate that has been going on between environmentalists and the nuclear energy for at laest 25 years, a large part of it is based on the waste disposal issue (aside from rare but possible 3-mile Island and Chernobyl(which was simply Soviet slopiness) syndrome) and no sustained discussion on all the technically possible means of waste disposal.
Lo! What we have onstead, as has happened so much in the last 25 years since Reagan, there is confused babble of opinion and counter opinion where the SCIENTIFIC FEASIBILTYand FINANCIAL issues are mixed up into an incoherent soup. For example, it is possible and I do not have this info. handy, some expert scientists may have explored the deep Earth possibility, but some rightwing bean counter with little economic knowledge CEO or Reagan and Bush administration functionary may have killed the research because each such facility would cost $10 billion or more to construct.
Nobody has bothered to explain in a SYSTEMATIC WAY whether or not the deep earth and deep rock options are technically feasible. In fact it behooves the Nuclear Industry to produce a documentary with animation and other graphics to explain to the average person HOW waste disposal can be made 99% safe. And if there are flaws in such an industry documentary, it behooves the Government and the Environmental Movement to produce a counter documentary such as Michael Moore's "Sicko" or Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth". In fact Gore should have used the podium when he had it to include something about how to meet energy demand and Global Climate Change responsibility.
So your technical help is much appreciated, and if you have any technical websites I can get further info., it would be helpful. I hope that some of the CD readers have the necessary training in geology and engineering to advance this discussion further.
KEM PATRICK: Your principled stand against any form of nuclear radioactive material any where is well taken given your tremendous amount of information on DU and its metal-toxic hazard. My point though is that we can also solve the problem of DU, which comes largely from U235 reactors from the waste U238 that is left and notallowing weapons use for it. What is happening now is that the warmongers are using ME as the waste-disposal site with DU waepons.
There are billions of tons of radioactive materials freely occurring in deep Earth. As I said before, Mother Earth and Nature have taken that into consideration and made deep Earth a marvelous cleansing system inasmuch as forests are for green house gases. Why not utilize these natural waste disposal facilities of deep Earth (may be even 5-10 miles deep in granite or other hard rock from which no radiation can emerge on the surface) if they can be feasibly accessed?
Your surface storage idea is intriguing. Is it possible to build such fail-safe boxes on the surface that would not be destroyed by man-made or natural disasters only to spew out that killer waste? I dunno. KEM, you should provide some further info. here.
WTF: As I said above your worry about humans in their sloppiness and greed contaminating natural aquifers and small organic life -forms which sustain larger life forms is very valid. But I was thinking of deep in- the- mountain core or some such hard igneous rock places, of which there are thousands in North America alone, where no natural aquifers are located. In short, I mean scientifically proven safe storage rock areas.
We should continue this discussion as it focuses on many key issues such as energy replacement, Global Climate change, environment, types of nuclear energies and generators, in a very simple setting:
DEEP EARTH RADIACTIVE WASTE DISPOSAL
Peace
Unfortunantly AYMON, most atomic waste produced by using uranium for fuel in a nuclear power plant, is not natural at all, it is man made poison and there is no known method of destroying it. Deep Earth or deep space will not destroy it. Only time will render it safe. The time is billions of years for much of it.
How deep should we store it? If the Earth was the size of a large grapfruit, our rocky mantle would be as thin as an onion skin. We have already well proven, we cannot safely store atomic waste for even 60 years when we have it in our eyesight. To beleive we can store it safely for even hundreds or thousands of years is not believeable. Atomc waste destroys the containers we build to contain it, they must be renewed at intervals.
Whether we store it above or below ground makes little difference. It is still time bombs waiting to go off someday. It is an out of sight, out of mind idea to bury it. Finally, we have no idea of all of the deep aquifers on this planet, drilling for oil and reaching depths of five miles or more the drillers frequently strike fresh water.
Pete Domenici (R-NM) is a huge proponent of nuclear energy. Look how many plants are located in NM, and how many more are being planned under the guise of "alternative, renewable energy". What has Gov. Richardson done to prevent this potential disaster? Did he sell out too?
Domenici was involved in the firing of the federal district attorney there. Isn't he under investigation for that?
Also, I read that he's retiring after this term. Isn't there a way to table this motion until after the November elections?
This country is being run by greedy fascists! I can not wait until January 20, 2009.
KENDPOTTER, I missed where you wrote I was intelligent. If you did, you could get an argument from my mate and children. I did read where you state, "I overblow" the dangers of DU. Then you blithly explain, that DU is not dangerous and give examples of things that are far more dangerous. I'm aware that a loaded gun fired, or a runaway bus can kill anyone and do so instantly.
You seem to be aware that a inhaled tiny nanometer of DU can kill also, but yo brush that off with an other cnflicting comment. Inhaling DU is not an immediate death, it's a long slow death from radiation poisoning. Your comments are identical to the spin put out by our government and governmental agencies such as the WHO. Why would our government mis-inform on such a serious issue? Many reasons they do, the most obvious is they would be liable for killing millions of people and for using weapons forbidden by the Geneva Conventions.
I don't write comments that are MY opinion on the subject of DU, I refer to the scientists and doctors who have given us excellent scientific proof on the subject. On a recent prior thread, you stated you wished to hold judgement until you had better evidence. Then you don't hold judgement and state that DU is not a danger, unless inhaled. That's a fact, DU isn't particularilly dangerous unless inhaled and to date there are trillions times trillions of that invisible death, floating in the atmosphere our waters. or lying on our soils of the planet.
Don't argue my comments, argue those offered in that link I gave. Then argue them and we can debate the issue and any disagrements you may have with the people who wrote it.
Hey Billy glad you are back. Maybe you can explain these charges on my current electric bill.
Enviromental benefits surcharge
System benefit charge
The cost of the electricity we used is $38.41 with the other charges 'before taxes', it is $71.74
Hey, did you ever look up the mess France is in with their current nuclear waste problems? Whooo pee.
Nope Bill, there are several articles there and at least two artilces you missed. Go back to th earchives and reaad the comments from another in that Wasserman article. It wasn't me or Paul, I believe it was ???? 001
What about my mysterious electric bill charges, that our company can't really explain to any satisfaction?
Bill,
I can understand the Government taking care of the used fuel, bad economics are prevalent everywhere. What about the energy produced from the re manufactured fuel rods? Why isn't this a major factor in how we get rid of waste? Is the return just too small for quick returns since the government (tax payer) pays for the waste?
Billy, have you ever noticed that you are greatly outnumbered when posting on the nuclear issues?
We'd love to have one with your obvious intellect and education working on clean energy, and I bet you would feel better too.
Me too JSTEVENS, I kid him terrible. Hey take the time to read this link. It will fully explain why DU is so horrible. Try it, it won't take long and is a real learning experience. It fully explains why so many are unaware of the truth about DU dangers.
http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/background.htm
Kem,
"Unfortunantly AYMON, most atomic waste produced by using uranium for fuel in a nuclear power plant, is not natural at all, it is man made poison and there is no known method of destroying it. Deep Earth or deep space will not destroy it. Only time will render it safe. The time is billions of years for much of it."
That statement "no known method" is quite simply wrong. The long half-life transuranics can be transmuted in Fast reactors. You don't have to take my word for it. Look it up.
I would really like to know why it is that we can both read the same information and you can be so certain of your opinion and that mine is wrong. I have considerable education in the field, work with some of the top scientists in health physics, yet am obviously dumber than a ham. Is it because I don't agree with you? That is not rational.
Uh, KENPPTTER, don't you believe the same about me, that I believe of you? Seems to be rational to me for us to disagree. I don't dislike you, or Billy or anyone else for it.
Did you bother to read that offered link, if so do you disagree with the contents? If not, what is your argument? If you do disagree, where are your arguments on the subject? You didn't bother to read it did you?
So tell us, is ALL atomic waste used for fuel in FAST reactors? Is there NO radio-active waste from a FAST reactor plant? If all cannot be used for fuel what do we do with the waste not used?
I'd bet you will not reply to any of those questions, I hope you will however.
I know you are highly educated on the nuclear subject, __I am not. One does not need to be highly educated to have opinions, based upon what information on the subject is readily available to all. There is a difference of education and common sense. Nuclear power is dangerous and the man-made, unnatural, poisonous waste produced is deadly and must be stored for millions of years, or we should be honest and say, __ forever.
BTW I never refered to you as scum, I don't think that at all, and I was polite to you. Cynical? Yes. I wouldn't be if you would fairly debate, and answer questions I ask you. I reply to yours. Who is beng irrational here?
Kem,
I already told you that I read the related links. Do you not read what I post? I am even acquainted with some of the people. Some of them I have a great deal of respect for. Some of them have their doctorates in Poly Sci (or from a less than accredited school) and should just shut the hell up. Some of them have presented some "interesting" findings in their studies, which have not been able to be repeated by other scientists.
There is a big difference between us - You are entirely certain of your position whereas I am absolutely certain of very little. You are a believer, a zealot, a proselytizer, whereas, I am an agnostic.
I've witnessed scientists change what's known, contradict previous theory, and lay waste to "common sense". After all, at one time, we all knew the earth was flat. You are absolutely correct, anyone can have an opinion.
In reference to your question concerning nuclear waste, I don't think all of it can be burned or transmuted in a fast reactor. I do know that the potential exists to change a pretty large percentage of the existing waste into a stable, non-radioactive form, thus significantly reducing the quantity that must be permanently entombed ala Yucca Mountain.
Okay KENDPOTTER, if you read it, that is where I get my information. So once again, do you agree with the article or not? Why do you refuse to answer that question? If you agree with it, you cannot say I am wrong about the DU issue. If you do not agree, tell us where it is wrong so we can have an intelligent debate. Since you have no opinion on the issue, why do you insist I am wrong about my opinions about DU?
Thank you Billy. We use ~IDT~ for all of our long distance calls. The bill is very simple, and our long distance calls dropped from an average of $60 a month to $12. There are no hidden charges and we have a number to use when we are on the road.
We also have a solar water heater I designed and built, It cost me about $125 to build it five years ago. It's great and our electric bill dropped $16 a month. We also use it to keep our master bedroom nice and warm with a radiator. It stays hot until about 5am. It's the only heat we use at night. I'm going to have another larger one to heat the entire house.
Our daughter in New Jersey now pays $450 a month for gas to heat their house and they have the thermostat set at 65 degrees. I damn near froze there last month, we slept in thermal underwear. They now have put a tent in their formal dining room, turn the furnace off and sleep in sleeping bags. Well, talk about changing the subject..... Take Care, Kem.
KENDPOTTER, I thought I missed something, so I scrolled back and read all of your posts and don't see where you said you read this link. Hate to harp, but your last post is confusing to me.
If you did read it, why don't you state what is wrong with it if you disagree with it and with me about the dangers of DU? I truly am sorry to say this, but at times you've disagreed in a rather snippy manner. You had asked for some scientific data that was credible.
http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/background.htm
HI Ken, Billy, Kendpotter,
My current employer is a fusion scientist and we both are looking for "just science" in the matter.(As in justice) It is interesting to see and hear you all rant towards each other. You should see 'us' go off! I've written off weeks of salary (he is really my client,and I cant charge for talk out of work, its not fair , we go on for hours, we blew one whole day searching on the web and doing equations). Its hurt sometimes, I know it can.
That isn't my point. WE have to work together and we are JUST as bad as BUSH if we HAVE to sick with DIATRIBE.
We need each other to win this fight and I like talking to all of you. Yelling and fighting are not cool, Man! BUT, I have to give it to
jfernst November 27th, 2007 2:30 pm, Cheers! I wrote that down to leave around the house and work or at the bus stop. Yea! Proactive! No names! We all have to get the ones that you just know sing to themselves in the shower or the elevator "I'm a T.V. watcher...I'm a T.V.watcher." to finally think, if you can! Bricks are illegal.
Kem,
I give up. I don't know whether you are playing at being obtuse or actually are. Either way I refuse to waste anymore time.
You should give up KENDPOTTER, I hope for everyone's sake, you never post another word about DU on this site.
You constinually say I and others overblow the dangers of DU when used as a weapon. Then you say, you have no opinion on the issue. Yet is is very obvious that you do have a very strong opinion and tell readers there is no danger from DU.
Then you say you need a good scientific reference which would back up my assertions. I post one for you to read and ask you several times to explan why it is flawed. If it is not flawed, then you are wrong about your opinions about DU. You refuse to say anthing about that fine artice, pro or con, the minutes from a scientific DU conference.
You insist I am wrong about my comments about DU, but refuse to debate the contents of that article, which I base my opinions on. You offer no links to support your claims. Then you accuse me of being obtuse.
I accuse you of being unreasonable and I do believe from the posts here by both of us, that it is self evident you are. You either debate that article, which you say you did read, or give up. It is clear you realize you are wrong on thissue and refuse to admit that obvious fact. __ I'm obtuse? __ What are you?
For those who think nuclear power safe you might look here:
http://www.radiation.org/spotlight/071206_rachel.html
http://www.radiation.org/