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Bush's Nuclear 'Reprocessing' Plan Under Fire
NEW YORK - The Bush administration is pushing for plans to reuse spent nuclear fuel in power reactors across the United States, but key senators and nuclear analysts have raised economic and security concerns about reusing the weapons-grade fuel.
"We have serious concerns about the implications of current plans for commercial spent fuel reprocessing," a group of seven Democratic and one Republican senators told Byron Dorgan (D-ND), chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development Appropriations, in a letter last week.
The letter urged Dorgan and Ranking Member Pete Domenici (R-NM) to cut funding for spent fuel reprocessing in an energy appropriations bill that is expected to be considered along with many other spending plans next month.
The reprocessing is being promoted as part of the administration's Global Nuclear Energy Partnership (GNEP), a plan to form an international partnership to reprocess spent nuclear fuel in a way that renders the plutonium in it usable for nuclear energy but not for nuclear weapons.
The energy and water development appropriations bill currently before the Senate would provide $243 million for the initiative, whereas the House version would commit $120 million.
Those who signed the letter include Senators Russ Feingold (D-WI), Ron Wyden (D-OR), John Sununu (R-NH), Tom Harkin (D-IA), Bernard Sanders (D-VT), John Kerry (D-MA), Daniel Akaka (D-HI), and Edward Kennedy (D-MA).
The eight senators said reprocessing is "not a solution" to the problem of nuclear waste and held that it could weaken U.S. efforts to halt global nuclear proliferation. In addition, they argued that the Energy Department's plans could cost taxpayers at least $200 billion.
Arms control activists have welcomed the senators' call for funding cuts and said their letter reflects a growing skepticism in Congress about the administration's reprocessing initiative.
"There are a variety of concerns about the program ranging from cost, to nuclear proliferation risks, to past failures in this area," said Leonor Tomero, director for nuclear nonproliferation at the Washington, DC-based Center for Arms Control and nonproliferation.
In her view, the Energy Department's request for hundreds of millions of dollars is not reasonable because its initiative and the GNEP "will not provide a viable solution" to the nuclear waste problem.
The Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources recently held a hearing on GNEP where many of its members expressed their concerns and raised serious questions about the Energy Department's plans.
In addition to the senators' objections, the administration's current proposal has also been criticized by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a pro bono committee of experts that advises the federal government on scientific issues. In its annual report this year, the NAS described the Energy Department's plan as an "unwise" effort that lacked "economic justification."
Although the administration has failed to provide an official cost analysis of the entire program, critics say it is clear that reprocessing is drastically more expensive than the current practice of "once through" fuel cycle systems.
In 1996, for example, the NAS estimated reprocessing and transmutation could easily cost $100 billion to deal only with the current spent fuel, and said technical challenges likely will result in GNEP costing -- rather than saving -- money.
And the nuclear power industry has expressed no interest in cost sharing, almost ensuring that the entire burden would fall on taxpayers.
At the recent hearing NAS scientists said there was no need for GNEP and held that the administration's accelerated timetable and efforts to initiate commercial-scale facilities "will create significant technical and financial risks."
Noting that previous efforts to reprocess and reuse spent fuel had failed, the senators recalled in their letter how, in 1983, Congress canceled the Clinch River Breeder Reactor, initially estimated to cost $400 million, when GAO cost estimates reached $8.8 billion.
In 1972, the West Valley, New York reprocessing facility was shut down as well, after only reprocessing in its six years of operation the equivalent of four months of spent fuel produced by the current fleet of U.S . reactors, whose $5.3 billion cleanup effort is still ongoing.
"The GNEP has morphed into a large-scale construction project well beyond research and development, they said, even though the technologies that GNEP proposes are not available.
Since first unveiling GNEP in February 2006, the administration has changed its plans "at least four times," the senators stated in the letter, explaining that much of the essential technology "will not be viable for 40-50 years."
"The GNEP hinges on the development and deployment of dozens of fast-neutron reactors," the senators said, but added that not one has been commercialized anywhere, "despite 50 years of U.S. and international research."
According to the recently released Keystone Center report, which is the product of a federal, industry, academic, and nonprofit collaboration, "reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel does not eliminate the need for a geologic repository, because there is residual high level waste from the reprocessing stream that needs to be sequestered in a geologic repository."
The report concluded that reprocessing would only divert attention away from a viable long-term solution to nuclear waste, and the GNEP program may further complicate the waste disposal problem as it proposes to reprocess spent fuel from not only new domestic reactors, but also from foreign reactors.
The senators warned that the administration's proposed technologies would also result in material that could be easily processed to make a nuclear weapon.
In their letter, the senators noted that commercial reprocessing in Britain, France, Japan, and Russia has resulted in the accumulation of about 250 metric tons of separated plutonium that can be used to make nuclear weapons, exacerbating the risk of terrorists gaining access to this material.
"At a time when the United States is seeking to limit the spread of reprocessing technology and expertise to other countries," they said, "resuming reprocessing would reverse decades of U.S. leadership that contributed to countries such as Argentina, Brazil, South Korea, and Taiwan abandoning their reprocessing ambitions."
The Bush administration is trying to promote nuclear power as a clean energy source that would reduce dependence on fossil fuels, whose use is a major contributor to dangerous climate changes.
But many environmentalists and scientists, who see nuclear reactors as dangerous, say nuclear power undermines real solutions to climate change by diverting resources away from the massive development of renewable energy sources.
"Nuclear reactors are not safe because, in addition to natural disasters, they are also vulnerable to unintentional human error," says Norman Dean of Friends of the Earth (FoE), a network of hundreds of environmental groups around the world.
To Dean, there are many other ways to fight global warming, such as energy conservation and wind and solar power, which are cleaner and safer than nuclear power.
Similar views have also expressed by a number of leading European politicians on the use of nuclear energy for non-military purposes.
Last year in April, former environment ministers from European countries, including Russia, sent a letter to then-UN chief Kofi Annan urging him to reform the mandate of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and stop promoting the use of nuclear energy.
"Nuclear power is no longer necessary," they said in the letter. "We have now numerous renewable technologies available to guarantee the right to safe, clean, and cheap energy."
© 2007 One World.net

94 Comments so far
Show AllNo hypocrisy here. U.S. and allies can do whatever it damn well pleases about nukes but look out Iran, et. al.!!!
The solution: NO NUKES--NO WHERE!!!
Vote Kucinich in the primary and caucuses and end the mdness!!!
Yeah, Here's your re-processing, catch this 30mm DU shell!
GNEP - Gone Newcular Erroneous Presidency
i can hardly wait until this moronic maniac, and his henchmen are out of the white house. what a sorry lot.
I agree with celebrity. Think for yourself, ignore the corporate media brainwash and vote for Kucinich in the primary.
"The report concluded that reprocessing would only divert attention away from a viable long-term solution to nuclear waste . . ."
Which, is, of course the true rationale in the Bush administration. They must have some friends and partners who are invested in seeing a big surge in nuclear power. They know it is going no where without a "waste" disposal solution, so they are bringing this disaster up so they can muddy the waters in the debate.
I put "waste" in quotes because the deadly radioactive long lived isotopes are the actual products of nuclear reactors. The heat that is used to boil water to spin turbines is actually the byproduct, or waste, of the production of plutonium and other radioactive substances.
we develop material civilization by trying things. and ludd was mistaken.
A long-term solution to nuclear waste...
maybe DU for the School Lunch Pogram or paint for toys.
BTW, DU doesn't have much to do with this. Well, maybe just a little.
DU is a byproduct of the 'enrichment' process. When Uranium comes out of the ground, its typically about 0.6% U-235 and 99.4% U-238. Its the U-235 you need for a chain reaction, so to use in a typical light-water reactor it needs to be 'enriched' up to about 3%-5% U-235.
One way of doing this is to spin it in a centrifuge then try to suck off the gas at the 'light' end of the container. That will typically have a bit more U-235 and a bit less U-238.
So, its the 'enriched' part with more U-235 in it that is needed for reactor fuel. 'Depleted Uranium' is the byproduct of that process that has more U-238 than normal and less 'U-235'.
A fast neutron breeder reactor would use up a small portion of this as you'd put some U-238 in there and some of it will get hit by neutrons and become Pu-239 (that's Plutonium), which can be used in reactors or bombs like U-235.
But that would probably only use a fraction of the DU that's around after 50 years of enrichment, so there'd still be plenty around for the "DU for School Lunch program" :)
-- note to those who read the corporate BS about Iran. Iran is struggling to get their 'enrichment' up to the 3% range needed for a light-water power reactor. To build a bomb, you need something closer to 100% U-235. The IAEA says they have absolutely no evidence that Iran has ever gone beyond the 3% -5% level needed for a power reactor.
Of course, for nations or groups who want a bomb, all this Plutonium that comes out of these reprocessing streams can be used for a bomb without that tricky step of 'enrichment'.
Reprocessing nuclear waste to use in present reactors would be a colossal waste of money and time. Has anyone in these commitees checked progress on the fast reactor at Argonne National Labs? The article mentioned cancelation of a breeder 24 years ago and that no one has yet commercialized one.
The guys at Argonne are close with what sounds like something between lab scale and a pilot plant. If the technology works out, the fast reactors could consume all that waste and then run on a fraction of the DU laying around for years. The waste fuel within a reactor plant would be recycled on-site for the life time of the reactor. The final reactor waste would have no actinides and would be safe within 200 years.
This is essentially free energy, other than construction, operation and maintenance of the plants. The coolant would be liquid sodium, and any failure shuts down the reactor, the rods are metallic and can't get as hot as the ceramic rods now in use...
It seems almost too good to be true.
We need to replace large scale fossil fuel generation ASAP. The only large scale plug and play non-fossil facilities are nuclear. There is a new generation of safe nuclear on the horizon. We need to put our money in a crash program to commercialize what Argonne has piloted (and the French have not quite mastered).
A plan to recycle waste for a second or third pass through conventional reactors is investing in buggy whips.
Yes, Ludd was misguided. It wasn't the looms, it was the capitalists running the looms.
Cheney's clandestine 2001 energy policy maximizes corporate welfare for and deregulation of fossil fuels and nuclear.
Just to show they were serious about deregulation, the Bush administration assured that Pakistani A.H. Khan, the rogue global nuke dealer was set free to continue nuclear proliferation.
Reprocessing, loan guarantees and guaranteed profits from operations are a few of many examples of Bush administartion initiated US taxpayer subsidies for nuclear power. No amount of US taxpayer money is too much when it comes to corporate welfare for the nuclear industry.
bbr-001,
I worked for the TVA back when Pres. Carter shelved their commercial-scale LMFBR - along with 2/3 of their originally planned LWR power plants. One safety misgiving I always had was, wouldn't that radionucleide containing liquid sodium coolant be a considerable fire, and therefore containment hazard in the case of a leak?
PJD - You mention: "wouldn't that radionucleide containing liquid sodium moderator/coolant be a considerable fire, and therefore containment hazard in the case of a leak?".
I'm sorry didn't you get the memo about never having any leaks? We NUKES_R_US promise to not use the very lowest bidder ($?), outlaw any water within a mile of the power plant (wont work, explosions_R_US is our other name), create triply redundant heat exchanger system that never ever would have to be maintained, or flushed out (not possible in the real world),..., and besides the FACT that no insurance company trusts ANY of the power plant designs EVER (enough to sign on the line) == and gov't has to guarantee the costs if a disaster were to occur == please do TRUST us as we're barely going to make more than a few billion dollars here (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
N O T !
Even the very smallest trace of Sodium blows up when any water vapor of liquid gets near, ever blown up a toilet? OK, it's not as bad as potassium, but my God, it reacts exothermically (producing lots of heat) AND it generates HYDROGEN GAS as well, which is why is almost always explodes around air - unless you suck out all of the air, and all of the water (rain etc) - but that makes for rather difficult maintenance, right?
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
Well, since there are so many highly educated on the subject, who inform Bush the plan is not cost effective and there are many other serious problems, we can be assured he will attempt to push it through.
Anything that is destructive or wasteful is his baby, that's his nature. We have a confirmed nut case in the White House. Well, maybe not, __ maybe there's a profit in there for the family. __ BTW, where does HellsABustin fit into this plan of our current idiot, __ anyone know?
PJD,
You wouldn't want to be anywhere near a cracked sodium carrying pipe? C'mon, it's just a little reactive. :)
BBR-001, It is my understanding that the French have a full blown major mess on their hands with their nuclear program, and have asked the Russians to help bail them out of it and the Russians want no part of it.
I do wish we would put five hundred billion into start up development of clean energy, Geo-Thermal is perhaps the most cost effective method, and that source of potential 'clean' energy, is right here under our feets. Combine that with Solar/Wind and Tidal energy, and we could close down every coal fired and nuclear plant in the country and pay less for our electricity than we ever have. Nuclear power has always been a loser, except for a few neo-cons and stupid, corrupt politicians.
COMarc wrongs:
> "– note to those who read the corporate BS about Iran. Iran is struggling to get their 'enrichment' up to the 3% range needed for a light-water power reactor. To build a bomb, you need something closer to 100% U-235. The IAEA says they have absolutely no evidence that Iran has ever gone beyond the 3% -5% level needed for a power reactor."
Actually, you can make a bomb using as little as 80% enriched uranium. And actually, most of the separative work is done in getting from natural uranium to low enriched uranium (reactor fuel). And actually, a power reactor's worth of LEU is dozens of tons or about a thousand times the mass of HEU needed to make a bomb.
Therefore, once Iran has the ability to produce LEU for power reactors, and once they have accumulated a reasonable stockpile of LEU, they can very quickly (in as little as three weeks given the planned size of the Natanz fuel enrichment plant) run some of the material through the centrifuges again to make HEU.
I'm not citing numbers here because they depend somewhat on assumptions and you can look into this yourself. But you are dead wrong to imply that enriching to bomb grade HEU is much more difficult than enriching to fuel grade LEU.
The point is, and this is absolutely clear, that having the ability to make LEU in the quantities needed to fuel a power reactor would mean Iran would have the ability to make enough HEU for a bomb within weeks of a decision to do so.
And then, if you really think Iran isn't after the bomb, please explain the Arak heavy water production plant and planned heavy water moderated natural uranium fueled (plutonium production) reactor.
Weapons-grade?
That's WAY different from "reprocessed/spent fuel"...
What's really intended here? Just a sneaky-way to upgrade the several-thousands of US nuke-weapons (as part of the so-called 'safety-program'), then dumping/using the plutonium from those through/by 'spiking' several civilian-reactors [while spending-Large, to install higher-yet kill-levels in all our weaponry -- as an end-run around the already-shirked Non-Proliferation Agreement]?
bbr-01
There used to be a Breeder here in Eastern Washington at the Hanford site. I was called FFTF or Fast Flux Test Facility. Because it used plutonium (the word seems to poison any rational debate before it ever gets started) it was shut down at the anti-proliferationists demand.
The only problem I have with GNEP is the fact that Bush is in favor of it. The guy has the reverse Midas touch - Everything turns to shit. There must be something wrong with it.
Obama is close to winning the nomination and Dennis has good ideas but is far behind. Obama has political heavyweights behind him: the formost advisor to JFK Sorensen and Bresinski the advisor to Carter. Obama is the younger generation like JFK he will ignite the student generation and it is time to let the next generation into the presidency. Obmama is a man for people to get along together. We will be the melting pot again and the country that overcame slavery with civil rights.
PJD,
I know you're a fan of nuclear. And even if we set aside TCO issues (millenia of costs on security/storage/real estate/monitoring/etc.), potential scale of catastrophic failure, connection to nuclear proliferation, the ethical issues of offloading all of that waste onto future generations, etc.
Even if we were to set aside all of this, you must agree that its most essential flaw remains: the top-down (and therefore removed/non-democratic/political) nature of its management.
Look at other things "they" have brought us: Vietnam, the Iraq War, total dependency on oil, a ponzi economic system gamed by bankers, supporting foreign dictators and druglords, etc. Decisions made in such a non-local, high stakes, autocratic, and totally removed environment cannot possibly yield sensible results.
You're disappointed with sodium in the coolant? I've worked for the civil service for over 20 years myself. You're lucky they didn't use nitroglycerin instead.
Perfesser Boosh the nuck-a-ler toy painter from HELL!
Who told this imbecile he could play with da Nukes?
Impeachment? Go here NOW and watch and listen from New Hampshire:
http://www.kucinichtv.com/
Oprah is going on the campaign trail with Obama now. There's millions more votes in his fund. He may be our next president if he doesn't commit a major blunder during the next few months.
HI there Billy, I don't know what Wasserman paper you are referring to. You know how old people forget to wipe themselves and shit like that. Anyway, if I gave you a link for a Wasserman, it wasn't MY silly paper. And I wouldn't expect you to agree with much of anything I offered anyway. You ever get over that glowing in the dark problem? Try drinking a quart of prune juice twice a day, that cures a lot of ills, like a bad cough for example. ____ You wouldn't dare cough.
Oh, almost forgot, just Google French nuclear industry program and scroll around and you'll find it. You were using wind power for a week? We all know you are full of hot air, but I never dreampt you'd have a weeks worth. __ Golly, that's neat.
The only thing that needs reprocessing is the Cheney/Bush duo and all their henchmen!
This does not need reprocessing - - the above is enough!
Hey Billy, I went back to the archives and found the Wasserman article. The article was okay, just asking us to not support Bush in funding more nuclear plants. There were a lot of good comments too, Paul MaGill Smith and others. You posted your usual 'support nuclear stuff'. It wasn't a silly article at all and neither is this one. Take Care, Kem
Hey, sailing is great fun and very relaxing. How is your daughter doing in college? Hope you were all able to go. Sorry I mis-understood, I figured you may have used your ample supply of hot air for a balloon ride, without having to use propane for fuel.
I recall that now. Poorly written? By whose standards? It it's Okay to be wrong, we all make mistakes Billy, don't let it get you down, and do try the prune juice remedy, I understand it works.
$200 billion would give us clean energy and begin to reverse global warming, but would not profit the oligarchy as a publicly funded, centralized, liablility exempted, dangerous and forever deadly nucular Bush boondogle.
Maybe I'm missing something, I thought that the life of whatever they use to make power off of a nuclear reactor would have a life span of like five hundred years if it was reprocessed instead of the waste products we have now with a life of ten thousand years. I thought the Carter thing was based on purely non-proliferation, which left us with waste we cannot get rid of for millenia. You see where I'm going with this. If we could reprocess the snot out of it so it would be used up, we would not have so much crap for our kids to worry about.
I'm really more pissed we don't have a generator we drive around every day to save energy instead of wasting in on just the radio. Automakers you listening? 15amps is all I'm asking. Plug it into your house and be done with it, the reverse way, run your house off your car. Mobile homes do it.
The other issue with Sodium, is that that after it blows up, or along the way - that the chemical end result is sodium hydroxide -- yes that's exactly the same as LYE, and it can take the flesh right off ones bones.
Other than that, I like really do like the idea . . .
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
I wanted to addend my last post.
We all know whatever bushie wants to do with the spent fuel will be evil, I just wanted to make my point clear. I'm not for bush reprocessing anything but rock into gravel.
Why did the world turn out this way? Where did all the happy little trees and the happy little clouds that the happy painter painted go? I WANT THEM BACK!
Buy a rocket ship from NASA and see if you can find them. I fear you or we, won't get them back here now. ___ Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. __ Well, maybe a bit longer than tomorrow.
Mark Abram wrote having the ability to make LEU in the quantities needed to fuel a power reactor would mean Iran would have the ability to make enough HEU for a bomb within weeks of a decision to do so.
Well, that's the EASY part of the recipe. That could be done nearly 70 years ago (when America was still playing with toy rockets). Now all ya gotta do is build triggers that will present an acceptable yield, miniaturize the package so that something smaller than a locomotive or container ship can deliver, and appropriate safeguards so that if it falls into the wrong hands, it cannot be armed (or disarmed, as the case may be).
Yes, stolen components may help to kickstart the program, but guarantees an arsenal of 1, 2 maybe 3 devices, tops. This sized program should not keep anyone awake. It is only when a country has an arsenal of 0.1 Beaches that we need to sit up and pay attention.
Too many people think it is possible to McGyver a nuke. It's not that easy and requires enormous, dedicated and generational national resources.
There is no such thing as rendering Plutonium in a form that is workable for nuclear energy but unworkable as a bioweapon.
Have a suicidal flunky take the fuel rods out of the reactor and lay them all on the ground together in a critical pile. Poof! All the plutonium is now vaporized into billions of tiny breathable dust particles. Same effect as dropping the bomb, but leaves the houses standing.
By the way, DU is a biological weapon.
Oh, if anyone has been paying attention to the news. Plutonium has recently been found in Santa Fe's drinking water supply (2006 Santa Fe Water Quality Report). LANL are involved in mitigation. It is big news here, but it is nowhere to be seen in the national MSM.
Here's a riddle for you.
Q: How do you know when Bush is about to say something stupid?
A: When his mouth opens.
There is only one reason Bush wants to go ahead with this; money for his friends. Everything this administration has done since it was appointed was for the enrichment of himself and the rest of the neocon mafia. Think about it.
QUESTION ON DEEP EARTH NUCLEAR WASTE STORAGE
KEM PATRICK: Hi there. Sorry my post responding to your greetings in an earlier post didn't post. My posts at CD somehow get delayed by several hours before they get posted at the original time I posted. But by that time several other posts would have gone by and I really do not have the oppportunity to engage in back and forth i real time like you and others here do.
I took a break from posting at CD, but I am back to add my two bits here and there.
Here is a question to you and many others here who have far more engineering and scientific knowledge about Uranium and its mining, processing and so forth. I do know the basics of enriching U235 and the by product U238 which contains the DU.
My question is:
Is it possible to dig a hole deep enough into the some area of solid hard rock into the Earth's crust to then carve out a cavern (bunker) horizontally - - a man made cave - -large enough to store 5-10 thousand tons of nuclear waste?
The cave should be deep enough as dictated by science and engineering so that neither radiation nor any of the stuff it self, especially DU cannot escape? For sealing one may have to use cages and doors made of lead reinforced by steel and concrete.
Of course we would need many such facilities but first the issue is whether it is even technically feasible.
I have always had this intuition that this should be possible in principle given some of the deep mines and the underground cities for the rich and powerful and continuance of government that have been built into the Rockies to be resistant to thermonuclear blasts of 20-100 megatons.
Also we know (and I very recently read an article on this, I believe, in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists) that the Iranians with German technical help have built underground military and other nuclear/biochemical weapons storage and operations bunkers in the Zagros mountains that are deep enough (1-3000 feet deep I think)that are reinforced to withstand at least one direct thermonuclear blast.
But the bunker (cavern plus cage) I am thinking about may need a hole that is really deep - - 5000 to 10K feet below the surface
I do not have the engineering and military background that you and other folks here have to say categorically that the deeper entrance hole and the large horizantal bunker I am thinking about is technically feasible.
It may be that the thing is feasible but its costs may be several billion dollars (say 10-20 billion). This is too large for any one nuclear power utility to bear. That we can also discuss later. To me the financing does not appear to be an unsolvable problem. If building the safe storage is feasible and the stuff can remain sealed for several hundred thousand years then one can go to (dirty)nuclear power in a big way and reduce dependence on oil. That would eliminate the oil pretext for wars and greenhouse gases pollution.
This is a serious question since I am trying to to see how the economics can be worked out so that the cost gets distributed or even bundled into financial instruments to companies and other primary investors. Or if we want to have Government control, then the Government can form something like Fannie Mae that is used to finance housing.
Any ideas on the technical
Hi folks; I'm not a nuclear expert, just a half baked chemist with a 30+ year old BA. Maybe the Argonne people are doing a bit of a sales job to keep the funding, but it sounds like a truly promising technology. It would actually end uranium mining for years because the reactors would need just some start-up DU and go from there. Google ANL IFR program or ANL AFR...
Regarding sodium, I believe the Peachbottom reactor in PA uses liqid sodium and has been in operation for years (if it hasn't been shut down for old age).
Regarding France, nuclear produces 75% of their electricity with hydro most of the rest. They have the most carbon neutral power generation in the world. They reprocess as proposed by the plan described above, and they planned to use fast reactors to someday consume the waste from the LWRs, and eventually replace them. For whatever reasons, the fast reactors aren't working out and they are having major NIMBY problems with disposal (storage forever) in a relatively small country.
Regarding fast reactors and plutonium. The plutonium should never be enriched to a high enough level in the Argonne model reactor to be tempting to a terrorist.This may be a substantially different technology than concerned President Carter.
Regarding geothermal, maybe Kem Patrick is right. President Obama and Congress should appoint a multidisciplinary council to investigate all the options for getting the US off fossil fuels as quickly as possible, and implement a plan by he end of 2009.
How about this, folks? Let's do our experimenting with fusion technology on the moon. I know there are hurdles to overcome, but it makes more sense to irradiate a dead rock than a living Earth.
After 65+ years of experiments, hundreds of billions of dollars invested, no viable means to utilize the fusion technology a number of posters here are going on & on about, and certainly no way to 'take out the trash' nuclear technology creates, isn't it about time we took the sane route of quickly ramping up renewable producion (while we rapidly ramp down use of fossil fuels). Then we completely phase out nuclear for good. End of discussion...except for twisting congressional arms to adequately fund renewables, the hard part for sure.
PS Just kidding about the moon thing. Makes about as much sense as shooting nuclear waste into space, but others on these threads have suggested that, too...forget about it!
How does the Bush administration know for sure that Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons with its reprocessing and enrichment schemes? Because that is exactly what the United States of Israel plans to do. The only justification ever really achieved for the so called "too cheap to meter" generation of electricity by nuclear energy, was the provision of material for nuclear weapons. Nuclear energy has been an economic and greenhouse gas waste by all other criteria. Therefore it follows that any country dabbling in nuclear energy must be really developing nuclear weapons material. So we can be sure of the guilt of Iran, Israel, France, Pakistan, India, China, and so on. If the capitalist USI cannot make it pay, and they are supposed to be able to exploit all natural and human resources, then no one can. Each and every one of the worlds non-profitable nuclear reactors is a generating factory for nuclear weapons material, not for any economic purpose, thanks to the generosity tax payers and the propaganda of governments.
The only safe place for any type of nuclear reactor is a safe distance from major population centers, say 93 million miles, in the sun. We receive over a thousand times the solar energy that we need for all our needs, and have plenty of geothermal and wind resources as well. Hydro-pumped storage works great for providing peak load and for night time use also. Reprocessing just means making Plutonium, and we are just needlessly extending the radiation/weapons danger. Plutonium does not exist in nature, why make it? Making it just increases our risk factor.
PDA is conducting this straw poll to determine which of the currently declared Democratic Candidates our membership is supporting for President.
Polling is open until 3pm Eastern time on December 4.)
https://www.pdamerica.org/polls/poll-pres-2008-1.php
I have no technical expertise whatsoever, but let me cite the obvious.
This is a program that is extremely technical in nature and so risky--in terms of potential payback--that the free market refuses to underwrite it.
It is being advanced by an individual who does not believe in evolution, who invaded a country because God told him to, who was totally misinformed about the existence of WMD in Iraq, who has never successfully operated a business, who called for privatizing the social security system, and who was unable to launch a successful humanitarian/rescue/reconstruction mission following the destruction of a major city.
To me, that's more than enough information on which to base a decision.
aymon,
"Is it possible to dig a hole deep enough into the some area of solid hard rock into the Earth's crust to then carve out a cavern (bunker) horizontally - - a man made cave -large enough to store 5-10 thousand tons of nuclear waste?"
Yes, such a thing is done every day in mines all over the world. The Homestake mine in South Dakota and lots of South Afrrican mines are more than 9000 feet deep and have removed much grater volumes of rock from this depth.
There are limestone and salt mines 3000 feet below the surface in Ohio and Michigan that have left stable caverns big enough to comfortably hold the population of Cleveland.
10,000 tons isn't very much volume of rock (or nuclear waste) - it represents a football field area about 2.5 feet deep. A longwall coal mining unit cuts at least 10,000 tons of coal (ultimately creating 37,000 tons of CO2) and moves it up to 2000 vertical feet to the surface every single day.
And my understanding is that we wouldn't need many such facilities - all the high level nuclear waste generated so far could be stored on a football field about 20 feet deep. That's the volume of coal a medium sized coal mine digs out of the ground every few days.
And, I dearly hope the anti-nuclear Luddites aren't now turning on fusion energy - some forms of which which use or produce no radioactive material at all. Fusion is the ultimate answer.
imagine the clean power generated if...
windmills lined the median strip of every interstate highway
all the area covered by suburbia were covered with solar panels instead
coastal cities floated a few dozen simple mechanical tidal generators
unfortunately the corporate coal & oil lobby will never, ever allow it
what a shame
PJD wrote Yes, such a thing is done every day in mines all over the world. The Homestake mine in South Dakota and lots of South Afrrican mines are more than 9000 feet deep and have removed much grater volumes of rock from this depth.
All these deep mines that you spoke of have one thing in common: An extremely active aquifer. Deep mines are wet and require the pumping of 100s thousands of gallons/year to keep them dry. Where does the pumped water go? To cooling ponds on the surface.
Really deep holes are a terrible place for waste. One leak at depth and the water supply for hundreds of miles is trashed.
Folks, fission or fusion are not the answer. They increase the annual heat budget of the Earth, something we all know contributes to the other little problem called global warming.
There is no answer except a radical reduction in human population. As the population increases, demand for energy increases. And seeing that we will never have energy that is 100% efficient, we will continue to kill our planet and climate. Its a no-win situation.
The one easy-peasy issue that all humans can rally behind is the deadly certainty inherent in producing nuclear product. Even in a no-brain world this is a no-brainer. Until a process has been developed that can turn nuclear waste into a form that is 100% inert, nuclear power, fuel, weapons have no place on this planet. The fact that all of us shroud ourselves in this sickening denial of a physical fact even a small child can grasp reveals just how far we are committed to digging our own mass grave. Physical laws aren't negotiable and nature has no tolerance for idiots.
Of all the world's problems, and by that I mean those created by human stupidity, this one is at the top of the list and the easiest and hardest to fix. Easy? Stop producing lethal radioactive product in any form. Hard? To convince idiots that "no way to neutralize the waste" means just that!
WTF, that is exactly correct and is already a major, forever lasting problem in several areas. Our water is far more precious than gold or gems, we must have water, gold and gems are a luxury.
It seems as if some believe, if poison is buried in deep holes, it is out of sight and 'safely' out of mind. I would much prefer the radioactive crap we have so foolishly manufactured, was stored in the most stable land areas possible, in above ground vaults which can be more easily monitored for the millions of years requird.
I seriously question PJD's comments, of the rather small amount of nuclear waste which requires storing. I also am not an expert on the subject, but I understand we will be hauling tractor trailer loads of the crap to the storage area in Nevada for years to come, several loads a day criss crossing the land. That is if that earthquake prone area is ever opened for use. Storing nuclear waste is tatamount to holding a tiger by the tail.
Someday, another serious spill or accident WILL occur. Someday, we WILL have a disaster at a nuclear power plant and then we will know and realize, just how foolish we were to ever allow nuclear power in the first place.
We must begin now to use clean energy methods, or we will leave our grandkids a planet that is a poisonous wasteland.
Sorry Aymon, I don't like the idea of hiding nuclear waste in deep holes, like brooming dirt under the rug, it may look good but it's still there, radiating away and threatening our aquifers. I am not sorry you are back and hope you stay, you are a swell person and offer great opinions. You didn't offer an opinion on this, you asked a very good question.