Americans ARE stunned.

Stunned by supersized coronary-burgers and American Idol competitions and Surreal Life reruns...

unfortunately, the land of "independence" and "individualism" and "everyone being left to fend for themselves" and "only the strong will survive" and "screw you, I got mine" , has quite natually led to a herd mentality that has the individuals keeping their heads down and trying to belnd in while the wolves tear at the weaker sick and wounded animals at the fringes of the pack, hoping they can themselves can survive to chew their cuds a few more precious days.

pitiful really,

In a democracy, to some extent, the leaders represent the people. It was truly amazing that Bush was even allowed to run for president. I mean, it was pretty amazing he could be governor of anything, but Texas is a hotbed for violent mediocrity. After my own state of California elected the likes of sonambulist Ronald Reagan, who am I to judge. So, Bush kind of won once. They had to cheat, but the fact that this moron got any votes is amazing. Then, as Bush himself tried to say, "You fool me once, it's your fault; you fool me twice it's mine." Just the fact that his incompetent, brain damaged mouthpiece couldn't even get the old adage right, makes it all the more amazing he was elected twice. Who could possibly ever vote Republican? Who can take these people seriously? I guess all those morons who sit around watching football and American Idol.

I'm old enough to have begun experiencing "senior moments", but I recall that bush has not won a National election. The GOP-Supreme Court felt shrub's ego would suffer if he wasn't allowed to be president.
And didn't Kerry win the popular vote in Ohio??

In this dictatorship, voting has been shown to be ineffective.

I so, so agree with Beth Quinn! But - and there's always a but - do all your letters get printed? No. Does the media seem to care what we have to say? No. Who exactly is listening? Certainly our administration is not, neither is the congress. What to do?

PLEASE GET OUT THERE AND VOTE - AT THE VERY LEAST IT IS YOUR DUTY TO DO SO!

I am angry and outraged. And where is the outlet? Does writing letters to the editor of a newspaper really count for anything when that paper is owned by a corporation friendly to the administration? Does going out in the streets with picket signs accomplish anything when such gatherings are ignored by the mainstream media and the White House? Does pointing out all our problems appear to have any effect on a people more concerned about their credit ratings and mortgage payments than their country's slide into tyranny?
I'm in the chorus, believe me, but it feels like all I can do is keep on singing in hopes that someone will hear the tune and come up with a new verse for the song.

Well, I respect and share your outrage, but I am not stunned that ordinary Americans (an ignoble majority of them, about the same proportion as ignoble Brits probably, not the honorable minority) are carefully turning blind eyes. They voted in this criminal admininstration (or rather voted in large enough numbers for the declared result to be faintly plausible). What's more their responses in polls and focus groups have moulded the Democrat candidates' platforms. Are Clinton, Obama etc decrying the bloodcurdling threats being issued against Iran? No they are not: they are repeating them. Do they have the guts to take the lead against guns and the death penalty. Not blooming likely. Because they are still hearing cries for death and vengeance from too many "centrist" Americans, though exactly how such positions got to be labelled "moderate" is something that does stun me.

Canuckchuck is right , the American people are stunned. Stunned and confused by 9-11 and the continual terrorism talk, stunned and confused by wacko religious prattle of all kinds, stunned and confused by our fast changing society, stunned and confused by trying to make ends meet due to overspending or loss of jobs and income, stunned and confused by an administration that has wrecked our country in a few short years, and are incapable of making rational decisions of what course to take.

I am also stunned. I have written my "representative" in House numerous times. I've written Conyers and Pelosi. And guess what? Nothing happens. I get (at least from my Representative) some insipid pablum, but also telling me he isn't going to do anything substantial about it.

JaneM wrote:PLEASE GET OUT THERE AND VOTE - AT THE VERY LEAST IT IS YOUR DUTY TO DO SO

I have to ask. Vote for who? If you think the Democratic Party is going to save us, you have another thing coming. Hillary Warbucks won't deviate in substance from the policies of the Bush Administation. The corporate backers of the Democratic Party won't ever allow Dennis Kucinich to be the Party's candidate.

Vote for who? Ballot access laws in my state (which are some of the most restrictive in the nation) will not allow other party choices like a socialist party or the Greens on the ballot.

Please get this: America is *NOT* a
democracy. If you want significant political change, voting won't get it for you. We must be willing to get out into the streets en masse and force change.

"I am stunned by all that is left of America: Americans."
...
Many say that Americans care, but are frustrated by the overwhelming hubris or arrogance of the men in charge. I say: Americans don't know how to care. We are a little self-absorbed and glassy-eyed in the face of power or celebrity.

Others say it will all right itself with the 2008 election, just wait, only 400-some-odd days remain. I say: the wrong done in our name will endure, become institutionalized, and used by whichever presidential successor is put in office.

Friends on the right say the strangest things: we're empire, Bush is a great man, liberals are by nature traitorous. I say: When did we stop thinking clearly?

Friends on the left (still shocked by the audacity of the ruling members) say that nullification of the Bush years should be pledge #1, a woman or person of color will correct things, decency will return and prevail. I say: There is no left or right -- there is only each one of us, lost and confused at the mercurial imbalance so rife in the world, the nation, and ourselves.

The fault, if that's what it is, resides in the inability of the mind to see through dualistic, linear, hierarchic thinking -- and the unwillingness to see each thing and each person exactly as (he,she,it) is.

Lets take a break from the idiotic secrecy and camouflage of modern cultural and political life. Lets propose a moratorium on superficial judgment, hatred, and condemnation.

Maybe we could try being human. Not the falsely human -- plagued by notions of sin, unworthiness, and guilt. But the truly human -- buoyed by truth and love -- full of wit, wisdom, and compassion.

Let's stop singing for a while.

Keep silence.

Take a good, long, deep look at who and what we are.

Thank you Beth Quinn for finally pinning the tail on the donkey. I've felt this way for a while, having run out of others to put the blame on. In the final analysis, we are the common denominator.

"In a democracy, to some extent, the leaders represent the people."

Well, see, this is part of the problem. We, the rightful owners in a democracy, have allowed others to frame the situation completely backwards. The "leaders" don't represent us, our "representatives" represent us. WE, are the leaders! The reason that we don't have a democracy is because we swallowed the myth that THEY are the leaders. In this way, as the author of this piece shows, we have given up on ourselves.

"I so, so agree with Beth Quinn! But - and there's always a but - do all your letters get printed?"

Many do get printed and they absolutely do have an effect. I've written many letters to local papers and I'd guess that 95 percent have been printed. I've also had several people tell me that my letters have made a difference in their lives.

Folks, we either do or we don't, act or remain silent, walk or talk - it's that simple. Stop equivocating.

We live in such a country because most of us came to accept an ideology which believes fervently in "invisible hands of the marketplace" and other such fetishes around production, growth and technology. From such logic, it is only a short step to "work makes you free", the inscription over the gate at Auschwitz. Work and production only make us free when there is a concrete sense of where such production decisions are headed. Without careful planning, we get the kind of culture we have, i.e, one which wants to do "something" about global warming, but with strategies which are "fiscally sound". and if history teaches us anything, it's that life is anything but cost effective.

From a glib notion about how best to nurture the planet, it is only a short step to the idea that there are only a few really worthy of living here. And those worthy are people who habitually vote for sadists like Giuliani, or shameless corporate shills like Clinton. The former camp are the "right", the latter, the "progressive democrats". Each are rightly and progressively getting ready to dump the vast majority of people on this planet into a global abbatoir, the current rationalized mayhem in Iraq and New Orleans being the clearest evidence of that little reality.

It's here we make our stand. If we don't, we will be begging for the bombs. But as the lady said, it's better to die on our feet than live on our knees.

I am not stunned.

"We're number one, We're number one, nyah nyah, nyah nyah." Yeah right, "we were number one".

Most of my fellow Canadians seem to be walking the same path as so many stunned Americans.

Is it for the same reason that so many Germans were stunned in the 1930's and 1940's?

It the same stunned appearance that your average Brit displays.

Does it have anything to do with base triumphalism, which is peaking even as the societies of these countries sink into bleak totalitarianism?

As my parents and their generation defeated the Nazi menace in Germany the Bush family and it's minions spirited that same malevolent meme and transplanted it to USA soil where it has thrived and grown strong roots. It's ugly head now rises once again, a target for the blade of a hero.

The nation of stun guns and 9 passenger SUV's, on the road with one peron at the wheel, won't come to its own rescue until there is lack.

Lack of cheap goods, lack of cheap gas (maybe that will be the first shot heard), lack of moral indignation.

We lack the capacity to be empathetic any longer.

I give us about a year before there is any action. We are just too comfortable.

(Yawn!) been away a while... WHAT?!!!

You've still got these same evil bastards running your country?!

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ALL OF YOU?!!! WHY ARE THEY STILL BREATHING?!!!

SHARONA1948 -- (thanks for your comments, and) -- Yes there is some hope for us,

AS WE ARE THE CIRCULATION, AND _ W_E___A_R_E___T_H_E___P_E_O_P_L_E__

and when the media (and it's controllers) are faced with little or no profits, there is plenty of room for changes. Who exactly do they think pays for all of their bills, the bribes are HARDLY everything to them!

WO_RK ST_OP_AGES may occur, but media displeasure is already for their CLOSEUP (with the public). The FAA rents the electromagnetic spectrum to the moguls, for the benefit of the American peoples free exchange of information and service for the PUBLIC GOOD.

Are we getting it GOOD enough YET?

Please see my posts elsewhere to empower each of your participation, if you so choose to attempt to re-claim OUR AIRWAVES. Like here

Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi

"I give us about a year before there is any action. We are just too comfortable."

Sorry, jjpeter, but that's just a cop out, an excuse for YOU not to do something. Been there, done that - it don't work.

The lack of consumption does get their attention. Have you stopped buying everything except necessities. This is a corporate state and you MUST vote with your dollars. Wear old stuff and make old things last. When necessary buy used or repair broken things with used parts. Take your available cash out of the Banks, they are a big part of the problem. This is a simple way that everyone can protest where they live. Just spread the word and start the downhill snowball. Absolutely buy nothing for Christmas except for children and then keep it moderate. If you can't do that then you are just windbags.

WHITE ROSE; I've been saying the same thing for years and too many people still don't get it. I used to write, send e-mails and call Boxer and Feinstein's offices and others in Congress, but they don't represent us at all. It will take 'getting out in the streets, or better yet, staying home as a form of the 'NATIONWIDE GENERAL STRIKE' that is long overdue. Look how they were lining up at the mall last week on "Black Friday', like trained circus animals.

As for the Democrats, they are almost as corrupt as the republicans.

When this administration made a mockery of the Hurricane Katrina disaster, I guessed wrong when I anticipated black Americans rising up in anger as they did during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's, but when looking at the total picture, one can see how jaded we've become as a nation.

Anybody who still thinks we have a representative government needs to take a history class or two.

Vote for whom,Jane M?

Look, more people voted for American Idol than voted for President. That should tell you a lot of where Americans priorities lie. Now that they've got 200 channel satellite TV's with 24 hour football or 24 hour mindless movies or whatever, they're more reluctant to move their ever fattening butts off of their comfortable sofas and give a s*** about what's going on with their country.

In addition to their flat screen, 200 channel satellite TV's, Americans have iPod's, cell phones, BlackBerries and mammoth Hummer H2's to keep them comfortably numb. Ever hear the Pink Floyd song about that very thing? That was years ago and yet it was very prescient. I think that people stopped caring years ago and decided just to distract themselves with as many gadgets, gewgaws and other things as possible. Go to any store this time of year and watch people snapping up all that crap and you can easily see where people's heads are these days. Comfortably up their collective backsides.

Remember, after 9/11, Bush told us all to go to the mall and "shop till we drop". I think that people are just so weary of so much bad news that they're doing anything possible to distract themselves from it instead of taking to the streets and demanding some action. They've seen our frustrated efforts at trying to do things and seen that they were largely ineffective, so they've sunk into a state of comfortable numbness and disappeared behind their flat screen TV's in an effort to turn off their brains and become mind-numbed zombies who don't care and don't want to care. And nothing's going to pry their obese behinds off of the sofa to get them to experience a bit of discomfort and go march for the restoration of the country.

So it's up to the rest of us who still care to do something. Yes, we've written letters to the editors of our newspapers, yes, we've all called our legislators offices to express our opinions, yes, we've stuffed busses to attend marches in Washington and New York and other places, sacrificing sleep and decent meals along the way, yes, we've held local protests in our hometowns holding placards demanding TROOPS HOME NOW and other sentiments, and no, it hasn't accomplished SQUAT but emboldened this administration to hunker down even more in their bunker mentality and engage in even more outrageous mendacity and criminal behavior.

But imagine a million angry citizens descending on Washington demanding our country back. A million. Not 8 or 10 thousand, a million. Look what Martin Luther King, Jr. and others accomplished by the March on Washington in the steamy summer of 1963. That was an historic moment. Now we have the power of the Internet to rapidly mobilise and organise. Sure, it's going to take a lot of (expensive) gas to get us all to Washington, but if we manage to accomplish bringing a million angry citizens to ask for a redress of grievances from our government (a very polite way of saying, IMPEACH!!!), I don't see how they could possibly ignore us.

That would send a POWERFUL message to America and Americans that, "WE'RE MAD AS HELL AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!" Think of how many people have lost homes to foreclosure, jobs to China and India, children to inner city violence, loved ones from failed infrastructure, loved ones from lack of access to affordable health care, loved ones from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan....the list goes on and on, and from these, I'll bet it'd be easy to gather up a million angry people who want justice and are willing to do something about it.

Million Patriot March. Let's do it.

What stuns me is how readily Americans choose to accentuate the tradedy of their own dead while margalising or failing to even note deaths many more numerous than those suffered by Americans.

"Where is the outrage over this war-without-end? Over waterboarding? Over our dead and maimed soldiers?"

How about the outrage over not the rape and torture of individuals but the rape of entire nations. Every American who cries for their own dead, but not the Iraqi dead, is at core racist, self centred and ignorant. Even when American's lament, they lament only for their own misfortunes. This our side - their side division, as to what is to be lamented and what is to be dismissed or cast away as worthless is of course a facet of American history so deeply ingrained that it perhaps goes unnoticed, by those that are American.. that the hero is the small American cavalry, and that the murdered Indians in their thousands are mere props, designed to flesh out the otherwise dull story. Ultimately America's curse, is in thinking that America and Americans matter and all others do not. There is only us - all of us.

Please re-read the above article and ask yourselves.. how often is the "Me" word the focus of it, and how often the "You" word.

Well, people are outraged--but there is little representation of the people's voice. Look at the candidates elevated for our consumption--they are furthest away from what even the polls can't hide, but they are spun as the "most electible". Then look at the scorn and disdain encouraged for those who do speak out from Move-On to Cindy Sheehan. Look at how they frame Ralph Nader--who as an individual has represented the people's interests more than any other public figure--yet he is roundly condemned and attacked.
The over-riding message is to not be angry--be civil and sit down and shut up or you will be arrested, ostricized and tasered.

HOW ABOUT SOME REVOLVING TV ZAP-OUTS? THEY MIGHT GET THE ATTENTION OF THE CORPORATE GIANTS. ALONG WITH BOYCOTTING WHAT THEY'RE ADVERTISING.

good enough!

you, have kids. that is fine. I am all for children, in the end they are the ultimate victims of the crime.

having pondered the future I may have children someday if the future becomes ponderable. But as the past 30 years at least have revealed a kind of imponderablity, I will continue to pass and try to assist those who are here.

I lay no blame you see on an individual's predicament in this life, that is sacred turf. Only on those attitudes one may have toward one's predicament. Those will kill you or get you killed.

I'd modify Beth Quinn's comment to say "I'm stunned by the ineffective fury of all that's to the left of Washington's current leadership: Americans."

There's no shortage of outrage in my midwest neighborhood, only a shortage of persons in positions of political power in the nation's capital who are willing to call military aggression military aggression, torture torture, racism racism, greed greed, and empire empire.

As long as the elites believe they can baffle us common folk with bullshit, and mass market fascism by using euphemism and false choices, it's small wonder more and more good people choose to call themselves independents rather than Republican or Democratic.

Bill from Saginaw

Beth Quinn,

Thank you very much for your passionate article. I also am stunned not by the criminals in charge, but by the vast majority of people who willingly allow them to be criminals.

I have thought long and hard about this problem in this last chapter of my life and I have come to the following conclusion. Nothing will change under the current system for the simple reason that the system allows it. Below I describe a number of changes that I feel would help America evolve into a truly free country with good social principles:

1. The executive branch of our government must be completely eliminated. I honestly believe that in the entire history of our country the executive branch has done 99.9999999 percent damage over only .0000001 percent good. (I hope I counted my zeros correctly) Every person would vote for their congressman to represent them, and no one else. Yup, no need for the senate either.

2. A strict enforcement must be imposed on trade. No manufacturing or service may be permitted abroad unless it is proved beyond any doubt that it cannot be performed domestically, even if there are insufficient workers to accomplish the task. Any work that cannot be done for lack of workers must wait - no exceptions. This would include the manufacturing of automobiles (good-bye Toyota) and electronic goods like TVs and VCRs. This will cause certain goods to rise very much in price, perhaps as much as 1000 times, but that penalty should be accepted.

3. A limit must be made on maximum earnings and assets. No person should be allowed to earn more than 100 times the minimum wage and no person should be allowed to own more than a certain reasonable amount of assets. Something like 100 million dollars worth of assets sounds fine to me. All assets over and above that amount must be turned over to the treasury.

4. Income tax must be completely eliminated, except for non-citizens working in America who must pay a very stiff income tax. All treasury earnings come from non-citizen workers, corporate profits and excess earnings and assets of the rich.

5. Every person should be required by law to vote.

6. Political parties must be outlawed. Political parties are nothing more than formal institutions created for the purpose of colluding for personal profit at the expense of the general population. As stated above, people should vote only for their local congressman who represents them in Washington. All foreign policies must be decided by congress, which is the only ultimate authority of the country both domestically and abroad. No other concentration of authority or power is permitted. All foreign countries desiring to formulate policies with the United States must do so by applying to congress.

7. All political campaigns must be paid for with public funds. Severe penalties, preferably death, must be imposed on politicians for accepting private funding or using their own assets for political campaigns.

8. All people must perform 5 years in the military service.

9. No military person of any kind may be permitted to travel outside the United States. That's right. All international military activity would be illegal.

10. All health care and public education to be provided by branches of the military.

11. All police and public safety services to be provided by branches of the military.

12. All energy distribution (oil, gas, and electricity) must be nationalized and provided by branches of the military.

There. I've said my bit. Now I can die in peace leaving all you people to argue over it. Come on, isn't at least one of my ideas good? Remember, I'll be looking at you from the afterlife. I'll know if you fail in your task of once and for all making America the country it was always supposed to be, free and fare for all citizens.

I am not stunned. Americans are a cowed and frightened population. Not just frightened of the drumbed-up terrorist scare, but more importantly by the melting of their old world they see around them on every front.

I have seen this before in China and, mutatis mutandis, it amounts to the same thing here in the previously Good 'Ole USA.

I can only judge "American's", other than the ones who post on CD, by my three older children who live in the States. They never talk about politics unless it's to complain about the shallow hot-button issues like immigration which is a code-word for brown people coming across the border or welfare queens. They never discuss Iraq and know only what is on the MSM about Iran. No, they talk about wine, new cars, boats and TVs. They have never heard of Seymour Hearsh and, in general don't read. They were not raised in a home that encouraged conservative ideas or anti-intellectualism so I am stunned.

WhiteRose: "The corporate backers of the Democratic Party won't ever allow Dennis Kucinich to be the Party's candidate."

Maybe so, maybe not. BUT what I DO KNOW is that if this man is NOT supported by Progressives, NOT voted for in Caucuses and primaries, and NOT given financial suport to contiinue to fight the good fight ( http://www.december152007.com/ ) FOR "WE THE PEOPLE" then we have NO CHANCE to turn this fucked-up country around. NONE!

I say that because I read about all the "taking it to the streets" posts above and get a sick feeling in my gut because--reality check-- it just ain't gonna happen! The human species in the U.S. of A is too "dumbed down" and "fear based" to ever, EVER group together for a cause that might just be critical of the established, unspoken rule of obedience no matter what. (Remember the "My Country right or wrong"--"Love it or leave it" mentality? It is still hidden in more subtle words nowadays,)

Another two problems for getting people to grab the pichforks and torches and head for the streets to express the rage are: 1.) The police are programmed to fight with means available that we commoners don't dare use. 2.) People fear incarceration, loss of job, or any other "inconvenient" price they might have to pay that would ruffle their security nests.

I think that with Dennis Kucinich in this election, this is Amrica's ONLY chance to get it right WITHIN the system. After that, I'm afraid you can pretty much expect little to change because we ain't goin' to the streets in groups of 100 or less and even make a fart in the big bathtub.

I have never bought into the countdown of days left until January 20, 2009. Upon seeing my first bumper sticker that read "01.20.09", I thought "Oh-kay, I know what that means. So what do we do in the meantime?"

The "number of days left in the Bush presidency" seems to be a common sign-off at the end of many a liberal rant. In the context of this particular article, the sign-off of "421 days" has roots in reality, finally becoming what it is; a hell of a long tome to sit around and wait.

Beth Quinn, thank you for helping me to feel 421 days as less of a prison sentence to be merely endured, and more of a good stretch of time with which to get involved, and by that, I mean going beyond being just a simple 'net browser collecting information from favorited alt news websites.

Or, to belabor the point, but that's 14 calendar pages having 28 to 31 squares on each page. Each square represents a day that I can either choose to put an "X" in black marker through, or use it to find my own chorus.

But what do we do?

Actually, I have an idea and could use some help. Have you ever heard of freepers? Free Republic-ers. I believe that what they do is find out from that web site where there are polls that are being conducted (unscientifically) and they seed them, informing the right-wingers where they are so they can storm them with their fanatically fascist views.

My idea, that I need help with, is to start going to conservative and ultra-fundamentalist sites, and signing on and voicing an even further-right statement, like "obviously we need to nuke all them damn towell heads" etc. That way maybe we can start showing some of the more sensible ones what the obvious conclusions are to they path down which they traverse.

All you need to do is set up a fictional email account, from hotmail etc. Be careful that what you say ultimately can not come back to haunt you by the current nazy regime.

Anybody have any comments or good site suggestions email me at harryhannemann@yahoo.com

Otherwise if all you do is monitor this site and piss and moan you are doing nothing. Oh, a really good handle like "on_the_side_of_god" or "christian_soldiers_with_guns" or something absurd like that would be really good.

Harry out.

I encourage you all to join me and vote with your feet. There are real national communities, in Nordic Europe and in New Zealand, where your voice and vote mean something and where inconsiderate and unconsidered greed is actually considered shameful. Imagine that! These countries have shrinking populations, particularly in the younger cohorts, and welcome skilled immigrants.

If you stay here in America and continue to consume as all patriotic Americans must, you will increasingly become part of the problem ... the mortal enemy of the responsible people in the rest of the developed world, not to mention the truly downtrodden billions of the developing South. Our mainstream political debate is light years from solutions to even our simplest problems, and locked in in a suicidal dance with corporate corruption and Orwellian deception.

Get out while the gettin's good.

Hey, psst,

If you lend me a few of your "l's" maybe a "t" and and "s" O think I can wedge myself out of this box.

Thought just occurred to me, if you aren't in my box, is what you are doing from my perspective what they call "thinking out of the box."

I've looked around the corners here. Nothin' Maybe an explosive comment or two will create a ripple effect and we can bust open a lot of these boxes at once.

One thing's for sure, when we figure how to get out all hell's gonna break loose and KP will be at the front!

OREZ_ENO wrote:
"All political campaigns must be paid for with public funds. Severe penalties, preferably death, must be imposed on politicians for accepting private funding or using their own assets for political campaigns."
Are you advocating for the death penalty?
We are trying to get rid of it!
I agree with public funded campaigns and holding politicians accountable for their misdeeds, but capital punishment? That is not a progressive or humane solution.

--"He's our president, so he deserves our respect."--

I had previously heard this from the pulpit in my church, to my shock, but am not hearing this any longer.

I believe that following bad leaders, who see war as a convenient means to an end -- profit, are an abomination and disrespectful of God and His Kingdom of equality,justice and peace.

Celebrity: "Taking it to the streets" doesn't mean literal pitchforks, etc. It means proclaiming truth -- how many of us have died in Iraq; how much money the profiteers are making on this war (billions and billions); how many of our troops returning from combat duty are expected to commit suicide, if the rates continue as they have been (5,000 expected this coming year) etc., etc., etc. That is what "Taking it to the streets" means.

If you're looking for where the average American's outrage is, look to where you left your shocked feelings at Bush, Cheney, Congress, the Judiciary and the Media. They are perhaps sitting in the same place.

I am not stunned, just frustrated that it seems no one is listening to the truth of what is really happening to our country. It seems that no one really cares to speak out, to write (or get published) who is for peace and justice, truth and integrity. As a nation we have already lost the war, we are all to blame for what our so called leaders are doing in our names.

Contrary to what the article says, there is a lot of outrage. The problem is what to do with it. I write to my Congresspeople and get computer-generated replies. I sign and send petitions on any number of subjects. I talk to a lot of people who am as angry as I am.

The only thing that I do that I think helps is to support organizations that take a stand against this administration. One good one is the Natural Resources Defense Council:
http://www.nrdc.org/
They have successfully fought the administration is the courts on killing whales with sonar, defending the polar bears, and drilling in the arctic.

I also belong to our state Environmental Council. I send money to support organic farms.

I'm retired and don't have much money but I do my best to conserve and recycle.

We are outraged but who will listen?

sbabson 2:27 pm: It seems that no one really cares to speak out, to write (or get published) who is for peace and justice, truth and integrity.

Well, you did. Why demean ourselves because we do what we do without any expectation of prophet? Ok profit, then. Isn't that one of the points being made?

If you do what you do for the express purpose of sustaining a lifestyle which is out of balance, Gore ie, with the rest of humanity, then you are a greater contributer to the problem you profess you are in opposition to. Hence, you run a greater risk of hypocrisy and you are funding the opposition.

This I believe is one of our major dilemmas.

Where's the love? And I don't mean the kind that's all sentimental.

No one will listen. Now. What will you do?

Will you wait until the Houston, TX police department and others (or their corporate replacements) have remote drones in the air all the time? Drones equipped with millimeter wave crowd-dispersal weapons enforcing curfews and a martial law lockdown without a human officer ever showing their face?

No one is listening because the people are not making them listen.
No one is listening because corporate money trumps public rights.

Now. What will you do?

A pertinent quotation: "The first order of business for those planning acts of revolt usually involves the renunciation of personal concerns, including their own individual survival. Such total commitment to resistance action is not accomplished easily and is virtually never shared by large numbers of people." (from George Kren and Leon Rappoport, "Resistance to the Holocaust", quoted in "Hitler, Germans, and the Jewish Question" by Sarah Gordon).

It is a regrettable, but not shocking, aspect of human nature that the majority of people will not forcibly protest abuses of justice by their government.

patiently, nonviolently wait until the time presents itself, why what's your plan?

there come's a time generally. Then you can ask. there's a few things that need to happen or else it would be here already.

The economy is a weapon. We are currently its subjects. Unsubject yourself as many of us are trying to do and we will become a force to be reckoned with.

Or, the economy will do that for us. Losing everything isn't necessarily something to fear and dread. Nor to hold in contempt. Sometimes it's a fact of life.

Doom n Gloom wrote: "The lack of consumption does get their attention... Wear old stuff and make old things last..." [more great stuff elided; go read the original]

GREAT STUFF, Doom n Gloom! As the soldier testified about the massacre at Ben Tre, Viet Nam, "To save the economy, we had to destroy the economy." We have declared an anti-consumerist Christmas this year: all gifts will either be of self-prepared food (one commodity we cannot do without), or of self-made crafts or personal services. What a nicer gift than a simple, hand-made card saying, "Eight hours of my time on a project of your choice!"

drholmquist wrote: "I encourage you all to join me and vote with your feet... Get out while the gettin's good."

Been there, done that. It becomes a problem when you can't bring your extended family with you. While we longed for a much more progressive place, aging parents kept us close to Amerika, and we chose Canada, settling for a "somewhat" more progressive place.

Canada is no panacea. It is "less worse" than the US, and corporate control here is mighty, if not outright voracious. But with one-tenth the population, we feel our voices are ten times stronger here. But I do fear "Anschluss" -- the US may well suck Canada dry and discard the lifeless husk. So we do maintain our interest and voting in the US.

Over and over again, I read comments about the apathy of the American people. The progressive 'net is full of criticism for what we are not doing to change things and comments about our lack of outrage.

But I keep posting and asking, "What are the exact steps we should be taking?" And I get virtually no answers. I, and many of my friends, have written letters to the editor and our legistlators both on the state and federal level, called our legislators and signed petitions, marched in protests (I was in Washington 3 times, and in local rallies at least 5 times), talked to our friends and acquaintances, participated in boycotts, and sported t-shirts and bumperstickers with our views printed on them. We write articles, and we argue with our "conservative" and wingnut associates.

In addition, I have a lot of friends who have been very active in organizations dedicated to peace, environmental protections, and other good causes. For some, their lives became so tied to their activism, they had little time for their loved ones.

After all of this has failed, what else is to be done? It's so easy to say - or to write - that we "just don't care" or that we lack outrage, but it's much more difficult to find solutions.

Fear of the government is rampant among both my well-educated working class friends. I encounter few people who are not concerned that the government has shut down dissent or that the wealthy keep getting richer and it's harder for the poor to make ends meet. One or two acquaintances are actually convinced that the government uses satellite technology to peer into their homes on a regular basis.

My experience is that people are, in fact, quite upset by the turn of events in this country. They mostly find the government to be run by wealthy, elitist fools who have no concern for their welfare. They just don't know what to do about it.

The negative attitude toward the Bush Administration is so pervasive that it cuts across all kinds of boundaries. About a year ago, I was stopped by a state police officer near Mineral Wells, West Virginia because a new speed limit had been installed and I hadn't noticed the new signs. They were actively enforcing the limit. The officer came around the back of my car and saw the anti-Bush signs in my car window. One said, "If you can read this, you're not the president." Others were similar. Anyway, this state policeman laughed when he read them, and instead of a ticket, he gave me a warning and was extremely nice to me.

To this day, I'm convinced he did that because he sympathized with the political stickers and signs on my car.

In any case, I don't believe we are apathetic or that we Americans lack a sense of right and wrong, or that we are not aware of what the government is doing. I believe we, collectively and individually, feel helpless. This shredding of our civil liberties began even before the administration's fearmongering after 9/11, and it insinuated itself into our lives a little at a time until it seems there is no way to combat it.

There are still many Americans who believe that our right to bear arms will protect us in the event that the government imposes military rule. I've talked to friends who insist that if the military can't win a victory over Iraq, they surely can't win over the American people. It sometimes seems as if the upsurge in invoking the second ammendment, as if it's the only right that's really important, has a lot to do with people's feeling that it's the only one that will really do us any good. (I don't agree, but I understand it, too.)

So, come on everyone who is ready to pounce on Americans for their ignorance, lack of rebellion, or inability to stand up against the Bush regime - give us some answers! What do you expect us to do, and do you really think it will make a difference?

Don't be stunned . . . . The leaders are doing exactly what the majority want. We have our cars with gasoline and our shopping with imported goods. Some may be expensive but what the heck we have them anyway. We have ours and we want to keep it. To hell with the rest of the world let them get theres as best they can.
Go back to sleep all you winers and snivelers while we enjoy life at whatever expense to the rest of the world we want to impose. We are in charge and you better do what we say our we'll nuke you and your neighbors. Shut up and go back to sleep. After all "W" was elected a second time right? I got mine . . . .

How can any of this be surprising anymore? What's really surprising is that the people who are outraged have little, if any, means to do anything about what's going on.

And how can we expect change when the leaders, the presidential candidates for the next election, are from the same Congress and government that currently refuses to listen to the public?

Where are the people that can turn this country around? Without a something short of a revolution, the youth cannot participate much because there are no viable candidates that can save this country from itself. What are the options?

Vote for Ron Paul!
At least LOOK at him, see what he stands for.
He stands for us and with us, We The People.

That's what I want is more hopefulness and less accusations.

anyone who may have found themselves in some kind of hopelessness might know,

there will come an answer.

In the meanwhile, we who can will look for it I hope.

so, that's what you will do?

hope?