You've misunderstood "America".

What we are witnessing is the stark reality. This IS America.

With 9/11 and the internet, we can just see much more clearly now what (America) is and, we know by the history books, we've always been this way. Without an enemy such as the former USSR, they now do what they want -- unchecked.

We are, at this point, truly captives and at the mercy of the rich, the powerful and the police state.

I suggest that, if you honestly can't tolerate it, then get out while you can. I know I am.

@principessaflamenco

Good thing you caught me before I died. There's no internet service in heaven.

You're right. No death penalty. It barbaric. Sorry for accidentally including it. However, I still suggest severe penalties for any politician using private or private funds to finance a campaign.

Thanks for the correction.

stinger_28

no, continue to seek, you?

oh, and I've been doing quite a bit of not belonging for the past years quite comfortable with having little, while those who belonged have claimed the moral high ground and laid claim to moral superiority and authority. Now, tables turning, feeling heat, laying blame. Still yall are comfy cozy I presume. I continue lean.

Daniel Quinn explained it best in the brilliant and wonderful "Ishmael" (paraphrasing): people don't strongly oppose the system beccause they know if they do, they won't be fed; it's easy to get people to go along if they know the alternative is starving to death.

We do not express our true outrage because we are afraid. Not of terrorists, of communists, of criminals, of China or Russia. We are afraid our own government and our own society will literally either kill us or let us die if we refuse to play the game and opposed it too strongly and effectively. And we are right. So we do what we have to do to eat and feed our children. In prison, maybe; ashamed, certainly; but fed nonetheless.

Sad folks, but look deep inside and tell me you are in fact doing everything you possibly can to change things and that the reasons you aren't is not this primal fear. I ain't proud of it, but at least I am honest.

furthermoe, stinger_28,

as many of my friends here may have guessed, I have spent the majority of my time on the planet with the hand to mouth crowd, and that's where the most of my fellow friends come from too.

secondly, I have been working much with the american poor, who in my view are now getting only crumbs when before they were at least getting table scraps.

I could, it's seemed to me from time to time, rip into the CommonDreams crowd for a blatant fault in their deductive reasoning which is many appear to be decidedly members of the "have" crowd.

But, not asking the obvious, "what have you been doing out there?" really, I have experienced that the better half of the "have not" crowd who might better express a resentfulness than I do, look out for people who share a common cause, which is their humanity.

Appearances asided. Because you can not see me nor know who I am. It's frequently best to reserve your judgment lest you speak that which you can not know. As I might do with the likes of you.

and yes, bruce allen, even your avatar is honest. More honest than mine!

It's not easy trying to save yourself and trying to save as many others as you can. I would call that heroic in a human and humble fashion. Kind of like offering the food on your table, or the pennies in your pocket to the poor, when you are poor as well.

Ms Quinn's piece has generated an amazing amount of comment, voicing lots of frustration and very little in the way of proposed action. I wholeheartedly agree with Doom n' Gloom about the need to boycott, boycott, boycott (check out buylesscrap.com) as the ONLY way to get the attention of the oligarchy and the political class.

And the only thing worth demanding from them is a consitutional convention, with an eye toward abolishing our current system and establishing a parliamentary democracy based on multiple parties and proportional representation. Americans have been fed a load of bullshit about ours being the best (indeed, only) form of "democratic" government in the world. It is neither democratic nor the best. If it were, we wouldn't all be online tearing hair and gnashing teeth.

I recommend you all read Charlie Savage's book "Takeover," about the Bush-Cheney drive to vastly increase the power of the presidency at the expense of the congress, judiciary and the civil service and uniformed military. This drive has been successful and is now irreversible. Congress has been complicit in its own demise, and that of the courts, and we are now at the mercy of the continued good will of the people we elect as president. The only people of good will I see available for 2008 are Dennis Kucinich (who hasn't a chance) and Al Gore (who understands the meaning of the term "masochism" and has the good sense not to run).

This Bush-Cheney power play prompted a number of prominent conservatives to mount a campaign called the American Freedom Agenda, with a 10-point program to take back Americans' freedoms. The group includes a few current and former heavy-hitters and establishment types. Check out their website, americanfreedomagenda.org ... they haven't even posted anything since July. If these guys can't get the ball rolling, we're in deep doo-doo. And that's just the politics of the situation. Allow me a mention of the ethical-moral issues.

I read all the posts here fairly closely, and saw a number of references to the tragedy of "our" casualties in Iraq. But I don't think anyone - including Ms Quinn - mentioned the million-plus dead and four-million-plus displaced Iraqis. Shame, shame, fucking shame on all of us. And we wonder why they hate us.

I'll work for that constitutional convention for the next year, but I give it no chance, and that's why, as I said in my earlier post, I'm outahere.

I'm outside the wall, so it's not my place to decide anything for the people of the USA. I just hope to avoid a wider war for the greed of the corporatists and their government enablers.

I only mean to raise the question in this discussion; What if no one is listening? Not your police, nor your mayors, nor your senate, nor your congress, not your courts, nor your bankers, lawyers, social workers, va reps, CEOs, military commanders, intelligence agencies nor your president nor his central staff.

What if (as has become increasingly clear) no one is listening to what the people of the USA want for their country, their communities and their families.

What will you do? If you'll sit quietly and do as you're told while they close the cage, that's a choice too. Some (most) will make that choice.

Expecting that stern words and protests will change anything at this point seems rather naive. Your nation. Your choice.

I would stay here if you want to be in the battle, because this is the central front in the war on terror. The extent of who is responsible for that and who are on the receiving end is unraveling every day.

leaving might be interpreted as cowardice.

keep laying blame man! you seem good at it.

geoff29. i too keep things as simple as possible. i carry no debt, use what few luxury items i have for as long as i can maintain them and i travel locally with my kids so that they come to appreciate the simple beauty of a hometown and country well explored. the 60s 'dream' was always a naive front for pointless acquisition and excess, largely manifested in a king's misery of shiny things that bring no happiness.

i hope many more find contentment in simplicity and that out of this at least will come people who take much less for granted.

Winston Churchill once said, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.". Nazi Germany. Hitler took away the German people's freedoms and he told them that it was to protect them from Germany's enemies, the Jews, Communists and the WWI allies. They bought it. Let's not forget the price that they paid for blindly following Hitler.

blame? you mention blame. i haven't.
blame implies guilt about the past.
got some? why?
all i have suggested is that those who are reading and haven't already, think about what they will DO, if everything they SAY is falling on deaf ears.

you have clearly made your choices, but you are not the only one who reads this thread. maybe you need to turn down the ego and get over trying to deafen people with the 'you can't blame me, i'm different' routine.

421 days left. That assumes that the shrub will voluntarily give up power, not necessarily a safe assumption.

sebouhian

Ralph Nader? You've got to be kidding.

I believe I'd turned down the ego, or expressed my dislike of it. there are millions more like me and like you.

I also said that you'd made your point to my satisfaction - with which I'd hoped you were satisfied, although not in so many words.

In the further exchange, and the time lag, we are missing each other's meaning.

And I have no guilt currently. Give me a few days and I will dredge something up to feel bad about.

If you talk to Americans, most of the get exactly what you are saying.

What's missing is any understanding that they can change things.

They know voting doesn't make a difference. They got long before I did that there's no real choice in an election. Constantly declining numbers of voter participation show this.

They know that protesting doesn't change things. The 30 million or so around the world who protested against the start of the Iraq war, and who were then roundly ignored not only by Bush but also by the Democrats who voted in favor of the war.

So, I don't feel its the lack of outrage. Instead, its citizens who do feel outrage or at least unease about all of this, but who don't know how to effectively express that outrage in order to create change.

Democracry and social action have slowly been killed off in this country. With no real experience with either, citizens simply don't know what to do anymore. When you see citizens who learn how to create change, they typically then become very active in their communities in demanding all sorts of change.

The flip side of that is that corporate government and corporate media will attempt to quash or hide any citizen efforts to create change precisely because they don't want citizens to learn that they can effectively be involved in their society.

"421 days left. That assumes that the shrub will voluntarily give up power, not necessarily a safe assumption.:"

That asssumes the problem is Bush himself and not systemic. It ignores the Clinton record for launching illegal wars. Or the long-standing support for torture by the CIA and US military. It ignores the Clinton economic policies and trade deals that started this flow of our jobs and our industries out of the country.

In 421 days, Bush will be out of office. In about 600 days I'll see lots of befuddled Democrats out protesting the next administration with me because they had the mistaken impression that replacing Bush would change things.

GEOFF29-----Hey dear, followed the thread but got depressed about the box stuff you were picking up on----so then I just read yours for the duration.

Clearly, this full mooon has worked some mischief providing a climate for communication glitches. It is hard, when one person feels the time for venting has passed and the time for positve action has arrived. And others have just discovered their outrage.

Perhaps the venting is just a necessary prerequisite to moving forward. Like the stages of grieving----It isn't over until it's over.

Nothing discourages me more than seeing people on this site hurl insults----it makes me understand how pervasive the polarization in our shared consciuosmess has become. We are angry at the rightwing bullies, but we unconsciously find ourselves imitating them in our interactions with people. It's like a virulent virus we've all been exposed to.

I watched the documentary The US vs. John Lennon last night and was awakened again to how effectively his and Yoko's creativity was utilized as they stood for peacemaking. "All we are saying, is give peace a chance." John and Yoko never stopped trying to BE peaceful, and were tireless in exploring new ways to move the mass consciouness in that direction.
See the film and feel really good about being a human being. And the tears and the laughter it will evoke can only be good for dissolving what ails us and keeps us in the blaming and shaming that throws up barriers to making common cause.

It all comes down to the integrity of the vote. If the vote is fair, the people get the government they deserve.

Unfortunately, we haven't seen that here since 1998, and certainly not since HAVA. It's gotten so bad that Jimmy Carter refuses to monitor the vote in the US because the electoral system does not meet even the minimum standard needed to assure a fair election.

Since many posters are asking about what positive action can be taken, here is my suggestion: agitate for electoral reform at the state level. Insist on voting machinery that is auditable and that produces an indelible, human-readable, voter-verified ballot that can be efficiently tabulated. (I have no problem with DRE's producing a count to be used as a double-check, but the official count must be based on a tabulation of ballots that have been checked for accuracy by the voters themselves.) Agitate for redundant vote counting -- two or preferably three vote counts by separate organizations.

Your voice counts much more at the state level than it does at the federal level, both in an election and when you contact representitives in your state legislatures. State officials can be held accountable much more easily by the electorate by simple virtue of the states being a smaller pond. In addition, even federal elections are run by the individual states. Focus your energy where it can have some impact.

Many posters here mention the supposed apathy of the American public. I don't think apathy is the whole story. I think cynicism and hopelessness are major unmentioned parts of it. When Bush "won" in 2004, I think many people came away from that election with the uneasy feeling that we no longer have a voice in our government. A comparison of exit polls with the official vote tallies indicates that the odds of that election being fair were literally millions to one against. When one realizes that one's vote does not count, and that one's representatives can therefore turn a deaf ear to the wishes of their constituents, one realizes that the only remaining recourse is outright rebellion. Who wants that?

As goes the vote, so goes the country. Make sure those votes serve their intended purpose.

SallyUUKent made the point "if we manage ... bringing a million angry citizens to ask for a redress of grievances from our government (a very polite way of saying, IMPEACH!!!), I don't see how they could possibly ignore us."

Then the question is, how would they respond? With Kent State II?

The problem with all this outrage about a depraved, degenerate piece of human filth in the White House and his equally despicable cabal is that nobody is willing to look the inevitable right in the face and act on it.

I have read all the responses to this point (11/26, 5:40pm), and am encouraged that maybe I am hearing the voice of the people in them. But the greatest problem, voiced by many, is what do we do? One response touches in a practical manner on the role of the consumer. I agree that the "leaders" have misled us, and that a change in names will not undo the damage already done to the people that is robbing them of pragmatic, peaceful, humane methods of protest against tyranny, rational methods guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and the universal rights proclaimed by the Declaration of Independence.

It may seem boringly mundane to oppose the government and their corporate investors by boycott, but if we go back to the voice of Ralph Nader who really showed us the way of political protest through economic means, we will organize national boycotts against selected megabusinesses that "invest" in the influence of the Congress for their own good profit at the top regardless of the hourly workers who make that possible and regardless of the destructive effect on the environment.

What else can we do short of a shooting revolution--which most of us would not want, would not support?

Ron Paul? No way. He's too interested in the contents of my uterus, which is none of his damned business.

People - America started as an experiment. We are a young country. We are still an experiment. What is MY solution? My initial solution is that Bush and Cheney must be physically kicked out of MY White House, down the stairs (I gladly loan my foot to do some of the kicking), and into the dirty street where a street sweeper will come and collect them like the garbage they are. The second step is for ALL of us to get involved in doing a better job for America. It doesn't matter WHAT your job is so long as it's legal (drug dealers and users are as deadly and damaging to the USA as is Bush) - but give it 110%. Lots of damned lazy people out there working and collecting an income. Push education for everyone - no child in America should hear they can't go to college for lack of family funds. No more welfare for young females irresponsibly popping out babies. No breaks for high school drop outs - they must join some sort of service until they are 21 DURING WHICH TIME THEY MUST STUDY TO FINISH THEIR HIGH SCHOOL DEGREES. And let's talk about this run away consumerism. Today's young people are in for a huge crash-n-burn when they learn that the meaning of life isn't the latest mobile phone or iPod or whatever the most recent crap on the market is. Too many of these kids are shallow and even downright stupid - have you shopped in a store lately where they're staffing the cash registers or offering their vapid form of "service"?

It's been a long day and I'm tired. I'm also very tired of the apathy in America. I write letters to the editor - have for 40 yrs now - and yes I receive the hate phone calls and responses, but I don't care. I love this country. I've traveled to other parts of the world and ... I LOVE this country!

Let these awful people be an example to us: GW Bush, Dick Cheney, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Barbara Bush, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich - god there are so many but as I said I'm tired. You know who I mean.

Let them be an example of what we will NEVER, EVER put up with again. Let's put them into the history books in clear, concise statements about what they really truly were and are, and cite the damage they did to America, and to the rest of the world.

You want to leave this country because in your short lifetime you gave up? Go ahead - I'll wave g'bye to you from my front porch. Just promise you will never return.

We have work to do.

Peace.

I've been outraged since my draft board tried to turn me into cannon fodder during the Viet Nam Fiasco. But most Americans just don't want to know how bad this government really is. A new standard of Insanity has been established, and Americans just want to watch Dance With The Stars. What America needs is a good Depression. I'm helping by NOT owning stock in corporate criminal activity, by NOT working for Exxon, Boing, Halliburton..., by NOT supporting the troops...They made the choice to become baby killers...they can change their minds. I watch the falling stock market and dwindling DOLLAR and cheer their freefall. A good Depression will get our NEW government rolling on social programs and not leave any spare change for cluster bombs, depleted uranium, phosphorus bombs, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, jet fighters, aircraft carriers, or cutsy little military-looking jackets for our president. Sanity may reign when CEOs and Senators have to stand in breadlines.

OldBadger: they are still hearing cries for death and vengeance from too many "centrist" Americans

We are all too familiar with the "centrist" American. That's the one who sins on Saturday night and asks God's forgiveness at Sunday services. The lefists do something similar: Plunder people/planet through Wall St. and then "give some back" through philanthropy. There are mountains of centrists in America. Even the chimp is a centrist - murders a million Iraqis and then rewards his cronies for their loyalty - that's his "giving back".

In the late 60's early 70's with racial killings, Bobby Kennedy assination, Nixon, Kent State, meddling in South and Central America, and of course Vietnam, we thought is was all going down; that America would not survive.
Back then my "National Anthem" was Monster by Steppenwolf http://www.steppenwolf.com/lyr/mnnster.html

As valid today as it was then.

Know when to hold 'em -- Know when to fold 'em -- Know when to walk away -- Know when to RUN.

Many of us decided that the passion of so many Americans was reserved for SHOPPING and REAL ESTATE that those of us who cared about the kind of government we lived under could never hope for any improvement in the Standard American Psyche. So -- we RAN to Canada or Australia or wherever -- and at almost every dinner or gathering find OTHERS who have fled the mess that America has become. And if I do say so myself, these are usually the Best and the Brightest!

Dr. W in Toronto

Actually, I can see why few are Americans are aware. Just take a good look at what Adolph Hitler planned and accomplished in a short period of time. The German public, except for a very low percentage, was unaware of what Hitler had accompished. Those that spoke out, were quietly arrested and disappeared.

Now, Bush/Cheney are following Hitler's blueprint, whiile avoiding the tactical errors Hitler made. They control our 'free' press and that is the first major element of takng over the country. We all are aware of his next steps, which he has easily managed to initiate and the American public, by far is unaware of it, and so don't be stunned.

The people who blog here are a tiny minority, it's just like Germany in the 1930s. Few are aware, and many don't wish to believe it. When bush declares his National Emergency, the game will be over. You know, like Germany, many will fear the government, our King Bush, and will keep quiet, but many will not only still support him, they will love him and will inform on any who protest in any manner.

There are major differences between Hitler and Bush. Hitler was intelligent, and Bush actually believes, he is doing the work of God. Cheney doesn't care what Bush believes, as long as Geroge contiues to take his orders. Of course George will, but I see today that Cheney is having another heart problem. ____ I don't see how that could be possible though.

"Sad folks, but look deep inside and tell me you are in fact doing everything you possibly can to change things and that the reasons you aren't is not this primal fear. I ain't proud of it, but at least I am honest."

bruce allen,

I don't think Daniel Quinn ever intended for us to be paralyzed by that primal fear. He was correct in his assessment (IMO) about food and how our system (culture) works against us. His message was for us to change our thinking and then help others change theirs.

It seems futile at times thinking of the seemingly insurmountable obstacles to change, yet, change (like shit) happens. Knowing that things will not always be as they are, helps me to realize that I can make some tiny difference. Nothing, neither good nor bad, happens without someone or something starting it. As DQ knows, we have to be the change agents.

LeeAnnG November 26th, 2007 3:06 pm, wrote ".. what exactly do you expect us to do ...?"

In the current game, we (the world) are Check Mate. We slept through the crucial final moves and now all moves are blocked.

Our last opportunity to act passed when we stood by while a few old men crowned the emperor. Even then, the writing of what was to come was on the wall, plain to see for all who cared to look and apply the lessons of history.

What's left to do?
1. To the most extreme level possible, refuse to consume. Take the initiative and shut them down before they shut you down.
2. Adapt and learn to live with what you have and what you can produce yourself.
3. Identify, seek out and cooperate with like minded folks in your immediate neighborhood/community.
4. Dress warm for it's going to be a very long, very cold, very dark winter for this civilization.

Most Americans are passive about the Bush administration and the Iraq occupation because, for the most part, their lives have not really been affected much. They can still drive their cars, watch TV, drink beer, etc. Life doesn't appear to have changed much. True, there has been deterioration in the quality of life of the poor and middle-class but it has been gradual. It's the old story about the frog and the gradually heating water. Most people will not sit up and take notice until the things they are used to having become unavailable or noticeably, dramatically change.

The only time I have seen regular Americans get agitated about a public issue was during the gas crisis of the 1970's. Gas prices went up. THAT was something they noticed because it affected their ability to drive their cars. As soon as that was over they went back to the TV, beer, shopping malls, etc.

As to what to do, I believe the only things that will work will be massive disruption and force. If we had millions of angry people in the streets, shutting down stores, stopping transportation, disrupting the economy, that might force a change. Some people have suggested a general strike. That may well work IF at least 10 million people participate. But most people will not become involved until their lives are physically affected; say by a massive depression or a major increase in gas prices.

Daniel Ellsberg

Amy Goodman

Daniel Berrigan

It takes courage to stand up and do something.

Well, it takes courage to stand up if you're powerless. Brass balls.

If you're in an elected position to effect change, no courage is required. Just honesty.

I'm with Ragdoll. Remove our national narcotic: TV. You can't sit around watching hours of the garbage and nonsense that's blasted over the airwaves at our collective psyche, and then give one single hoot about anything that's actually happening around you.

Shame on US for CHOOSING to spend so much of our precious time glued to our seats in front of our idiot boxes, one for every room in our McMansions and one in each of our SUVs. We've become a nation of idiots too stunned to respond appropriately to this outrageous presidential team.

For the one who hopes we have a depression, I will say this. Any who hope that, better not be here when it hits. This is not 1929 and there will be total anarchy this time. Few will survive, think about it. During the depression of 29, there were millions of small farmers and ample food, few starved or even went hungry for any length of time. This time, those farmers are history and there won't be ample farmer's markets to feed the populatin we have now. People will fight for food. The next depression will result in the death of this nation.

And for those who plan on leaving. Be careful of where you may go. In 1940 a young couple we knew fled to a beautiful South sea island and obtained jobs at a new resort, because they feared America would be drawn into WW2. They were very intellignet people. They were killed by the Japanese durng an air raid, on December 12th, 1941.

Impeachment? Go here NOW and watch and listen from New Hampshire:
http://www.kucinichtv.com/

What do you expect from dumbed-down people? The Bush Family Evil Empire has raised tuition for higher education to ensure that there are future slaves and also fodder for the military-industrial-complex, and to ensure that only the wealthy war criminals/profiteers stay in power to rule us indefinitely.

It is very difficult for a normal, sane, compassionate person to recognize a psychopath. I happen to have recently been victimized by one, and have taken some time and some effort to understand that state of being. I submit that this country (in the persons of corporations and many of their minions) are psychopathic in nature— totally amoral, totally without conscience, the very essence of "evil". I will not say that we have elected a cadre of these psychopaths to govern us, because I do not think they were elected, but in true psychopathic form, simply stole what they wanted and continue to impose that vision on all of us and the world. They must be stopped, or our children have no future.

I am not a learned man, just an old farmer who has watched the country and a society (very imperfect though they were) left in the dust of greed and lust for power.

Psychopathy is ugly.

rtdrury

Leftists? Wall Street? Have you lost your fucking mind?

As one who has written angry "letters to the editor" both on a local and national basis, I am convinced that the media today is in bed with the neo-con corporatizers, and the only hope for the U.S. lies wholly with the general public - - indeed, if they will ever get angry enough to mount a ttal sit-down strike - - or, Heaven forbid, a REVOLUTION!

What the people who oppose this dictatorship - and that is exactly what we're now experiencing (fascism) need is a national logo - a national brand that will identify us with one another. This will help the fearful feel that they really do have moral support - and that there are sufficient numbers to challenge the oligarchy. When I suggested such tactics to liberals, they had a fit - what, YOU WANT US TO CONFORM?!! They all wanted to 'do their own thing' - to no avail, of course. They wanted to preach to the choir, expecting others would join their bandwagon - what arrogance! Americans are largely conservative moderates and will follow whatever banner offers strength and solidarity - from either side. Wise up, folks. Use tactics that are proven to work - then even the press will pay attention.

Well, you see how far their tactics got us - despite the success of the minority opposition. The average person will follow a nutcase - a true believer - who sticks to message and exudes confidence and security. Democrats offer little or nothing along these lines, other than a 'protest' vote - which doesn't matter anymore anyway.

Do you really want to know what to do? Choose a uniform - colors, just as used by sports teams, military and paramilitary groups (gangs), etc - so we can identify ourselves. Want your protest march to attract real attention? Then dress conservatively (in colors, of course) and march in straight rows and in cadence. Make sure all signs are low-key and professionally printed. If you want to attract support, you must project organization, conformity, solidarity, and security - that's what people really crave.

I'm not saying that this is an instant cure - but it is an important part of the program that has been ignored - or even rejected. Well, do you want to win, or do you want to 'be right'? Drown your damned ego, or suffer the consequences - there are millions of years of evolution against you if you resist conformity and organization! Go ahead and keep trying what doesn't work. Besides, you'll attract youth - they love uniforms and conformity (doesn't everyone) and they are our future. If you don't give them a uniform and a 'tribe' - Uncle Sam will!

I live simply - now. Spend the minimum and shop at garage sales rather than retail. I didn't come from that class - I do this out of moral necessity, not financial constraints. Keeping shopping to a minimum is a great tactic - but you have to promote it in a better way - as it was done in WWII. Open an account in another country if you can - otherwise, buy euros (or even Canadian dollars) to save - my conservative friends collect Krugerands because they're gold. And for Pete's sake, shut off the damned TV, especially on weekends - organize community events and shun anyone who prefers professional sports as an alternative - make corporate conformity unpopular and unAmerican. Get out an play sports instead of watching them on TV - get a life. Meet at least one new neighbor every week, and discuss the situtaion in our country with them - then invite them to a community event. And if you're a liberal, don't advertise it - this isn't about politics, but about survival. We're losing our country, and this may be our last chance to save it. Bury your ego, no matter how much it hurts - or that will be all you have left. Politics is divisive - avoid it.

Please do not rail against the people who wisely leave this country - they are patriots too. Members of my own family often fled dictators - and joined the Allied Forces to fight the last batch of fascists. Others joined the Resistance - at great risk to their families, and even communities. There is no easy way - but there are several ways to fight, and each must do what they can.
KEM PATRICK: Ever hear of Santayana? You used his quote and attributed it to Churchill... George Santayana was an immigrant from Spain - that last fascist state that the US kept in power for decades after WWII ended...

Stop blaming Americans - most are just brainwashed, ignorant, stupid or scared. Most seek escapism out of fear and frustration - helplessness - this is a normal human response to a frightening situation. How about asking people living in free countries - who have no fear of repression by their government (or neighbors) why they aren't doing anything to push their own governments into helping us, instead of the corporate oligarchs and US government. Why did they fold after the first multi-million protest against the invasion of Iraq? They're safe and comfortable - we need more emigrants to stir them to action - before it's too late for them as well. Just look at what happened in France! Many nations did the same thing with Hitler - appeased him instead of standing in solidarity against his heinous reign of terror, hoping they would escape his greedy grasp - most didn't, and should know better now. We need to ask Europeans and Scandinavians, as well as Canadians and Australians, to speak out - to goad their governments into 'doing the right thing' by condemning the US and corporate world government. We all lose under fascism - it doesn't work, and the damage done is painful to repair - and the dead are dead forever.

I tried to warn the liberal protesters in my area many years ago - they rejected my suggestions. See how well they've done? Instead of building support for peace, freedom, security, and prosperity - we now have a jaded and beaten bunch of losers crying in their beer - they gave up, or crawled into self-centered feel-good do-nothing social programs that do nothing more than try to plug holes in the dike. It isn't working. Ask conservatives what it takes to prevail - they know how to organize and win. And most of them hate the fascists and dictators just as much as you do.

One thing that people keep saying here (and elsewhere) needs to be corrected:

It has not "always been this way" with Americans.

We have not always been a dog-eat-dog society, with people so shamelessly greedy, consumerist, anti-intellectual, and sadistic. Does anyone else here remember what it was like during the 60s and 70s, before Reagan began the process of creating the kind of Americans the writer of this article is lamenting?

During the 70s, someone like Kucinich could certainly have been elected, everyday American conversation wasn't devoid of sociopolitical discussion, there weren't right-wing attack hawks in every neighborhood keeping people stupid and afraid, people were not as into unabashed conspicuous consumption as they are now, and there was even real, honest talk and action to do with reducing energy use and, unimaginable as it seems today, living without energy.

I know I'm not the only one who remembers these things. Note that nowhere here do I mention perfection, only a better national environment than we have today. And don't give me any shit about those times being better because the economy (whatever that is) was better. It has more to do with human will than with money. The fact that it's been different and better in the past means that it can be made different and better in the future. It will be more difficult to improve things in this violent, Reaganized land than it was pre-1980, but it is possible.

That said, I remain as pessimistic about Americans now as many of you here. I wish I'd done what journalist John Ross did during the 80s: left the country because he saw the societal changes Reagan was initiating as being irreversible. I fear he was probably right.

armybrat, the uniform idea is creepy, the rest of your comment seems right on, but uniforms?

ARMYBRAT, I used someones quote, where, when?

I am outraged -- and I have taken to the streets, plastered my car with bumper stickers, signs in my yard, marched in DC and my southwestern city, became a Precinct committee person and walk my district for better candidates, give as much money as I can every month to causes that promote real social change, write letters, blog, sign petitions, talk to everyone I know, stay informed, and attend as many events as I can.

But it doesn't matter because the system is broken. You realize pretty quickly that all you do is pretty futile. Maybe some choir-preaching satisfaction, but not much else. Like Naomi Wolf says in her book (I just started it, so maybe she says something else about this later on), but the democratic mechanisms that make these types of actions effective are gone. The pendulum won't swing back because it CAN'T swing back and our government won't respond to our demands because it isn't aligned with our purpose.

So, am I supposed to give up my job, my kids' future, my health insurance, my home, and everything I have worked so hard to achieve to fight these crooks? Because that is exactly what will happen if I do what I so long to do -- hit the streets and STAY there until we make them change. I find myself wishing I didn't have a beautiful family, a home, a great job that I love so I could devote my whole life to working for social justice. How f**ked up is that?

We live in the land without any safety net whatsoever. Who will hold our lives together while we fight for our non-existent democracy? As you begin to try to seriously confront these injustices, you find that there is no one is charge -- there is no edge to this corrupt system, and no way out. At least for now, anyway. Meanwhile, my kids want dance lessons, Christmas presents, and just to have some "fun" family time (and standing on street corners holding up signs is not their idea of fun).

I will continue to do what I can do, but don't say that there is no outrage. There is -- and it's the worst kind -- the kind that comes from not being able to do anything about it.

ELECT DENNIS KUCINICH - he is our only real hope.

But mainly stunned by the MSM. Will the Internet reveal the truth? Will our children even search for it? After all, they've had better nutrition and so they're smarter and more computer literate than we are.

If God exists and plans things, maybe this is all part of a plan to let us learn from our mistakes. To let us overpopulate the earth so more people can invent more things for more money until we (accidentally?) invent something(s) that will solve all our problems if we don't kill ourselves first. Maybe this is another faith-based initiative but without the rapture.

After a long night of petitioning in the streets for Kucinich (most usually being ignored by people glued to their cellphones and i-pods, but not infrequently being engaged in conversation by very thoughtful, engaged folks) I walk away with two opposed opinions of Americans and democracy:

1. Americans deserve the democracy they get, which is a shitty one to match their insular, individualistic attitudes

2. It is the responsibility of those of us who think about politics, who have a grasp of the issues, to make the effort to communicate with the others, to try to get them to write and make phone calls and at least think for 5 minutes about what is going on...in short, it is the responsibility of most of us on this website to do a lot more work than the other kinds of people who couldn't be bothered, to try to make them care at least a little, tiny bit. It is a burden that comes with critical thinking and social conscience.

I must say, the people who signed and who talked, thanked me profusely for what I was doing. It was very gratifying. To hell with the i-pod freaks...I'll fight for them too without expecting anything in return.

I have lost faith in the voting system. My husband and I joined the independent party and just got an absentee ballot asking if we want to vote Democratic or Independent--the only choices in California if you are an independent.. I have worked the elections the last five years with people that couldn't count to ten and this year I elected not to work.

rebelnow,

The creepy part is that the fascists, themselves, have learned to drop the uniform, stiff-arm salute and symbol. They learned that the movement was less recognizable, less likely to generate a personified backlash, etc. if it remained -- outwardly -- in the backdrop. Rather, it would seek to embed itself into the fabric of the economy.

They wear a subtler uniform, but the tailoring is unmistakable.