Shocked in Death, Shocked in Life: More Than a Taser Story
The world saw a video last week of Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers using a Taser against a Polish man in the Vancouver International Airport in October. The man, Robert Dziekanski, died soon after the attack. In recent days, more details have come out about him. It turns out that the 40-year-old didn't just die after being shocked -- his life was marked by shock as well.
Dziekanski was a young adult in 1989, when Poland began a grand experiment called "shock therapy" for the nation. The promise was that if the communist country accepted a series of brutal economic measures, the reward would be a "normal European country" like France or Germany. The pain would be short, the reward great.
So Poland's government eliminated price controls overnight, slashed subsidies, privatized industries. But for young workers such as Dziekanski, "normal" never arrived. Today, roughly 40% of young Polish workers are unemployed. Dziekanski was among them. He had worked as a typesetter and a miner, but for the last few years, he had been unemployed and had had run-ins with the law.
Like so many Poles of his generation, Dziekanski went looking for work in one of those "normal" countries that Poland was supposed to become but never did. Two million Poles have joined this mass exodus during the last three years alone. Dziekanski's cohorts have gone to work as bartenders in London, doormen in Dublin, plumbers in France. Last month, he chose to follow his mother to British Columbia, Canada, which is in a pre-Olympics construction boom.
"After seven years of waiting, [Dziekanski] arrived to his utopia, Vancouver," said the Polish consul general, Maciej Krych. "Ten hours later, he was dead."
Much of the outrage sparked by the video, which was made by another passenger at the airport, has focused on the controversial use of Tasers, already implicated in 17 deaths in Canada and many more in the United States.
But what happened in Vancouver was about more than a weapon. It was also about an increasingly brutal side of the global economy -- about the reality that many victims of various forms of economic "shock therapy" face at our borders.
Rapid economic transformations like Poland's have created enormous wealth -- in new investment opportunities; currency trading; in leaner, meaner companies able to comb the globe for the cheapest location to manufacture. But from Mexico to China to Poland, they also have created tens of millions of discarded people, the people who lose their jobs when factories close or lose their land when export zones open.
Understandably, many of these people often choose to move: from countryside to city, from country to country. As Dziekanski appeared to be doing, they go in search of that elusive "normal."
But there isn't enough normal to go around, or so we are told. And so, as migrants move, they are often met with other shocks. A treacherous razor fence protecting Spain's North Africa enclaves, or a Taser gun on the U.S.-Mexican border. Canada, which used to be known around the world for its openness to refugees, is militarizing its borders, with lines between immigrant and terrorist blurring fast.
Dziekanski's inhuman treatment at the hands of the Canadian police must be seen in this context. The police were called when Dziekanski, lost and disoriented, began shouting in Polish, at one point throwing a chair. Faced with a foreigner like Dziekanski, who spoke no English, why talk when you can shock? It strikes me that the same brutal, short-cut logic guided Poland's economic transition to capitalism: Why take the gradual route, which required debate and consent, when "shock therapy" promised an instant, if painful, cure?
I realize that I am talking about very different kinds of shocks here, but they do interconnect in a cycle I call "the shock doctrine." First comes the shock of a national crisis, making countries desperate for any cure and willing to sacrifice democracy in the process. In Poland in 1989, that first shock was the sudden end of communism and the economic meltdown. Then comes the economic shock therapy, the undemocratic process pushed through in the window of crisis that jolts an economy into growth but blasts so many people out of the picture.
Then, in far too many cases, there is the third shock, the one that disciplines and deals with the discarded people: the desperate, the migrants, those driven mad by the system.
Each shock has the potential to kill, some more suddenly than others.
Naomi Klein is the author of many books, including her most recent, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, which will be published in September. Visit Naomi's website at www.naomiklein.org, or to learn more about her new book, visit www.shockdoctrine.com .
© 2007 The Los Angeles Times
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131 Comments so far
Show AllVAUDREE,
_NORAD_STOOD_DOWN_
Perhaps you are not aware that besides the 'standing down of NORAD' for the three pseudo-exercises, that Darth Cheney specifically removed the decades long standing provisions for FAA calling for the automatic scrambling of jets whenever an unknown blip was detected. Somehow I am dumfounded at the timing of this errant policy change, with no "improvements" to security deployed in parallel and overlapping (as any sane commander would do). Explain that.
Are you someone who is interested in the truth, and verifiable facts?
The facts are extremely legible for those willing to look, for over 50 years, protecting the air space of this country has been the domain of the Air Force, and automatic triggering of any errant radar signature was immediately reacted to -- even more so in recent times with massively improved radar installations (able to track bolts orbiting the earth - yes each one). Yes, 'standards sure have changed' as you say, when we "let" things like this happen (before or after any date).
_EXERCISES_ELIMINATED_NORMAL_DELAYS_
I will do as you ask and "Concede that, after the second plane hit the WTO, the US military should have been in full force", except that doesn't address how we got to that point. I mentioned the 3starGen's testimony to Congress (which you have no response to), where he asserted that BECAUSE of the exercises, the defenses were comparably more ready (than if we'd had no exercises) - as there was with no set-up time for 'manning of the screens'. Explain what was happening for the hour before the 1st impact, since they were already fully staffed?
_EVIL_COMPLICITY_
You say "Son says: the bush administration may be evil, but it isn't bright enough to keep something like that under wraps", and I'll quote from another CD who says similarly "I just can't believe that a man who is so manifestly incompetent could've pulled off 911."
Please consider that the shrub is acting much dumber than his otherwise obvious incompetence. As I've gone into in more detail here, he has PURPOSELY made the American people think of him as an idiot, and that gov't is incapable of protecting the public.
_SHOOT_DOWN_INNOCENTS_
You misdirect me with your argument of "shooting down a plane full of innocent people", as there weren't even planes close enough to act, so there never was a real risk. Why is that? We put our best fighter pilots (scrambled) into the sky, which has occurred from what I recall thousands of times, to visually connect with plane's pilot - whose radio may have died. In all of those situations, we have NEVER done as the Soviets did over Korea -- and shot down a commercial planes.
_ORDERS_&_ACCOUNTABILITY_
You ask, "Yes, but whose orders? And what orders?" -- and I say Cheney and Bush, if not who was disciplined?
Thank you for stating the obvious, "Cheney wanted to attack Iraq with all of his being" -- and I agree, as this duplicity directly accelerated that process a thousand fold. You state that "it was Cheney, rather than Bush...running things" -- and while I agree that Cheney is powerfully inclined, if he did break the chain of command - he should have been already shot as traitor (we know that didn't happened, so Bush was in on it 100%).
You seemed to have skipped the issue of accountability, as we know that Bush & Co have had many spates with their generals, but none were punished for 911 - gimme a break and explain why? Are we no longer interested in learning from our mistakes that cause thousands of civilians to loose their lives?
You mentioned that "questioning of Condi reveals, that the CIA and the FBI wanted Cheney (or Rumpfelt) to take some things more seriously", but deflect the obvious incompetence of Condi with her own deflection any any serious issues.
_OSAMA_SAUD_
This is a red herring when you state "Cheney ... start trouble with the Saudis", and not true as well, they're big commercial buddies of entire Bushco (for ~ 30 yrs).
You say "Osama over to the ICC, but not directly to the Americans? The Americans refused that reasonable request. What do you make of that?". Osama was not the objective other than a ploy in get into IRAQ, and admin avoided many other opportunities to catch him, so I say that this just proves duplicity.
_Yoo_LAW_
Congress makes laws not justice dept legal experts, they only interpret what they think the admin can get away with.
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
nspire imitating idiotic general says: The facts, Sir, are clear that nothing even close to letting 4 airplanes loose in out skys has ever occurred before.
How often were domestic planes full of innocent passengers used for this purpose? And why were such planes used in this case? The US had faced a few peaceful years where they did not really have an external enemy to whip people into a frenzie with. Prior to 9-11 most people would have found the US government shooting down a plane full of innocent people repugnant, but afterwards … well, American standards seem to have changed.
Think of how the whole thing could have fallen apart so easily since it all depended on fake documents and simultaneous attacks. Concede that, after the second plane hit the WTO, the US military should have been in full force
Son says: the bush administration may be evil, but it isn't bright enough to keep something like that under wraps / the closest to that that i could possibly see is that they may have allowed it to happen / but my money is on incompetence / to be fair, the soviets never actually sent missiles over
nspire says: OOOPPPPS, sorry we completely failed to do our jobs, and then no one was fired for incompetence? Well, I aint no military man, but the ONLY way that could ever happen is IF THEY WERE FOLLOWING DIRECT ORDERS.
Yes, but whose orders? And what orders? Remember that Cheney wanted to attack Iraq with all of his being and was trying to find a good excuse to do so. Cheney just wasn't interested in dirt elsewhere and, I think that we can both agree that it was Cheney, rather than Bush, who was really running things.
There is some indication, as the questioning of Condi reveals, that the CIA and the FBI wanted Cheney (or Rumpfelt) to take some things more seriously. It would be out of character for Cheney to engage (or refuse to engage) in any action unless he saw personal gain. Cheney probably did engage in intentional ignorance. However, Cheney probably did so because he saw it as being against his interest (or those of Haliburton – same thing) to start trouble with the Saudis. Osama being in Afghanistan at the time was probably a godsend. Remember that Afghanistan was willing to hand Osama over to the ICC, but not directly to the Americans? The Americans refused that reasonable request. What do you make of that?
There is some evidence of preplanning concerning torture even way back – what do you know concerning the Armed Services Members Protection Act of 2001?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/warcrimes/icc2.html
U.S. threatens to pull out of UN peacekeeping (June 2002)
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2002/06/21/un_icc020621.html
Here, Cheney protected himself legally. The laws that Yoo helped draft protected Cheney from any legal sanction if they got dirt on him. One would first need to strike down Yoo's laws and then Cheney could, as a last resort claim that he followed the law of the land at the time.
NSPIRE,
I think that we can both agree that the Repug wish list that was the Patriot Act way before 9-11 happened and that they used the shock of 9-11 to ram it through. Unlike the Congresspersons of the United States, the MPs of Canada actually read the document and debated it.
Ever wonder what our representatives were talking about in the aftermath of 9-11?
Monday, September 17, 2001 (scroll down to bottom)
Mr. Svend Robinson (Burnaby—Douglas, NDP): Our grief and anger must not in any way lead us to a diminution of the most fundamental and most important civil liberties and human rights. Those who flee from terror themselves tragically must not be victimized now by the call from some, including those in the official opposition, to implement draconian new measures on immigration or refugee policy. As Tom Berger has said "our freedoms are fragile indeed".
It is precisely at times such as this, when we respond in anguish and deep grief, when we must be most careful. We have heard the parallel of Pearl Harbor. Let us never forget what followed Pearl Harbour: the internment of Canadians and Americans of Japanese origin and the use of the ultimate outrage, the atomic bomb.
In 1970, in response to terrorist groups, the War Measures Act was used, which represented a powerful threat to civil liberties with over 300 Quebecers arrested and imprisoned.
We must be particularly vigilant at this time not to allow in any way our most basic and fundamental rights and freedoms to be trampled on in the name of the fight for security or against terrorism.
However, the most important issue I want to address in the few minutes that remain to me is the question of Canada's response, the government's response, to a possible request by the United States or NATO for military action. We have heard what I think are deeply troubling words from the solicitor general and the foreign affairs minister today during question period. I was pleased with the tone that the Prime Minister set in his comments today, but disturbed by the suggestions of some of his colleagues that we are indeed prepared to walk every step of the way with the United States. I believe that is what the solicitor general said. I do not believe that Canadians are prepared to give our government that kind of carte blanche. ...
Mr. Svend Robinson: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his intervention. Perhaps the best response to his comments is to quote from the statement made by Project Ploughshares, which said:
"Crimes against humanity cannot be redressed through actions which themselves circumvent the law and due process; nor is it possible for states or communities to individually build fortified islands of safety based on their own power or unilateral actions."
I think we have to be particularly vigilant in the coming days to speak to our friends and allies in the United States with respect to their response. I was troubled and alarmed when George Bush suggested that "We will rid the world of evil doers" as part of this mission of response, because when we look at those who have been defined as the evil doers historically by the United States, whether it was in Chile, where the tragic irony is that September 11 is also the anniversary date of the overthrow of the democratically elected Allende government there, whether it is the devastation and the genocidal impact of sanctions on the people of Iraq, whether it is the targeting of Cuba as a terrorist state by the United States, I think all of us have to be particularly vigilant to ensure that what guides us in our response is the quest for justice and not the quest for retribution and revenge.
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/housechamberbusiness/chambersittings.aspx?Key=2001&View=H&Language=E&Mode=1&Par...
nspire says: I'm (almost) certain you would agree, the bald-faced lie to the American people that the gov't had never heard of any such idea of flying planes into buildings - was just propaganda to attempt to recover from their seriously flawed "intelligence failure" 'barf all over their shirts' mess, right?
I think that there had been hijackings and bombs in airplaines prior to 9-11. Don't think I heard much of the use of aircraft as a weapon since WWII and those where single passenger Japanese planes which only had enough fuel to travel one way. You have to admit that 9-11 was well researched, well planned, but employed the most minimalist weapontry. The hijackers did not sneak a bomb onto the plane or carry guns - all they carried were box cutters (as my son made a point of pointing out when he got an inappropriate stocking stuffer that year).
Why box cutters? Because it was the most lethal weapon that, even if the airline security people caught you with, they would probably just let it slip. There were probably a few test runs first to see what would and would not be allowed onto a plane. Yes, when told that there were suspicious people taking piloting lessons and wanting to learn how to fly (rather than land), it should have been looked into. Yes, when given a document that Bin Laden looked like he was planning an attack in the US, it should have been looked into more carefully (why it wasn't you say is because the US administration was in on it and I say because Cheney considers protecting Americans a very low priority - especially if it involves people who have been good to Haliburton). Yes, like CSIS and the RCMP with Air India, the CIA and FBI should have been more willing to share information.
*My son had a spoof website called Alt130 Enterprises and people kept sending him freebies because they mistook it for a real company. I thought it would help with the unwrapping.
VAUDRE: Good responses, but they (re-thuglicans & democraps) wore off my usual skeptical button decades ago.
It's kind of a moot point though, and we agree that we disagree herein.
Hopefully it (our similar, but different viewpoint) empowers us both, to take appropriate actions, like continuing to read CD, and inspire others to ACT (which I see as a given). Best of wishes with your approach, as I know my Dad would have almost dis-owned me to hear what comes out of my mouth now days . . . and he was a pacifist prior to WWII (and his switch over to building the nukes for Japan).
BTW, as I'm (almost) certain you would agree, the bald-faced lie to the American people that the gov't had never heard of any such idea of flying planes into buildings - was just propaganda to attempt to recover from their seriously flawed "intelligence failure" 'barf all over their shirts' mess, right?
Have you heard the one about the 3(death)star General, who asserted under oath (to that Georgian Rep, who they then systematically ousted) that our gov't's state-of-the-art (best in the solar system) intercept effectiveness was actually significantly made more effective, dangerous, responsive, and with keen perceptual clarity in the face of any threat === while running three different war games at the same time as while 911 was occuring ???? How [unbelievably ignorant]^google power are WE ????
The facts, Sir, are clear that nothing even close to letting 4 airplanes loose in out skys has ever occurred before. Have you forgotten the multi-trillion dollar -- intensely accurate and thoroughly deadly -- defense system that protected us from the USSR "menace" for decades?
I guess it was those all of those made-in-China fusses, ALL blowing at the same time in massively redundant systems over dozens of states, AND no body could find the light switch, and the shrub wasn't available to guide the military as he was in elementary school learning how to read and write? Ever read about CENCOM, and the Pentagon's joint chief of staff, I guess all of those folks were on vacation during those exercises, and left the unqualified most least likely able teen agers in charge of our entire countries defense?
OOOPPPPS, sorry we completely failed to do our jobs, and then no one was fired for incompetence? Well, I aint no military man, but the ONLY way that could ever happen is IF THEY WERE FOLLOWING DIRECT ORDERS.
"Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
NSPIRE
Condi's memo proves that they knew there was a threat but did nothing specifically to prevent it from happening. However, the Clinton administration filled the Bush administration in on the major threats to US security from around the world - and the Saudi Threat was one of them.
NOTHING in the memo indicates that they knew there was an attack planned for September of that year - nor was there anything in the memo (or the rest of the testimony that I know of) which indicates that the Bush administration was in on the planning. All the memo states is that there was a threat of an attack that they ignored.
WHY did they ignore it? It could be because they wanted it to happen (which would have gained more credibility if they had been in office longer). It could be because Cheney was fixated on going to war with Iraq (for business interests) and had no interest in giving the file a close read. It could be Bush's loyalty to old friends cropping up - no matter what Osama was up to, the rest of the family had always been pretty decent to Bush to the point of funding his businesses.
nspire says: This is to me, about illegitimately creating a new context for massive social change, that at other times (w/o shocks) wouldn't be allowed or condoned by even the most apathetic of populations.
Naomi Klein speaks both of creating contexts and of making use of contexts which occur.
Cheney's immediate reaction in the hours after 9/11 was to say that Saddam Hussain was the mastermind of the attacks and, when that failed, to claim that the secular Hussain and the overtly religious Osama Bin Laden were best friends (so Hussain was a finacial supporter of Bin Laden's work). That strategy counted on getting the types of Oppression which existed under Hussain mixed up in people's mind with the types of Oppression which existed in Afghanistan. The mixing up was made easier by the human tendency to presume that if a person is engaged in one type of oppression (jailing those who disagree with you) that they are engaged in other types of oppression as well (making women wear Burkas).
Cheney's immediate reaction indicates that he was still fixated on Iraq. Cheney was not thinking "what do we need to do to protect Americans" but "how do I fulfill my agenda" - the point is that Cheney did not see looking into Bin Laden's activities as furthering his own goals so ignored the warning signs.
nspire says: Loss of Habeas Corpus (an 800 some year old foundation of Democracy), illegal wiretapping, illegal warmongering, illegal profiteering, . . . are all about stealing Americans blind of most of what was left of a participatory democracy.
Yes, these things were part of Cheney's agenda and had been for years before King George's mini-me took office. Cheney was looking for an excuse to implement this stuff, but did not expect it to come as soon as it did or in the form that it did. I think that we are both in agreement with the concept that the Patriot Act was ready to go before 9-11 because it represented a wish list. And we can all guess that the UK and Canada would not have signed onto it unless Bush tied security to trade - especially since Bush has been pulling the same bushit argument since then for other things.
The Unauthorised Biography of Dick Cheney
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/dickcheney/vice.html
You want to know how long America has been trying to talk Canada into some version of Star Wars! They came very close to pushing that through, and, probably while we were fighting that got other things through.
Continue this later, possibly when we meet again. Just decided to switch from newspaper to phlegm bowl.
Remember my argument with Jacob Freeze that he was referring to the guy in Chilliwack? Well we finally know the name of the guy who was pepper sprayed, hit with a baton and tasered in Chilliwack - Robert Knipstrom. You do know why we now know his name!
In Canada, we don't usually release the names of the dying.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071124/custody_death_071124/20071124/
Robert Dziekanski was the guy who died at the BC airport after arriving from Poland. Ironic, considering my arguments with Jacob Freeze that both men share the same first name.
Nice shooting
SIOUXROSE: In a previous life, I was a king of interferometry.
Your comments are intuitively a 14 Billion lightyear long bullseye, as Very Long Baseline Interferometry, is ALL of the QUASARS bouncing their LIGHT across the Earth, and amplifying the weakest ripple's whisper.
Namaste
NSPIRE: We are on the same cosmic page. I love the fact that some are bringing a spiritual dimension into this forum. CD definitely attracts a wide variety of informed and illumined thinkers. Who's to say or know exactly how the "pebbles" our discussions send flying may create better ripple effects?
The solution is simple. There needs to be a clear cut policy on exactly when and how tasers are to be used.
SIOUXROSE,
Yes I also believe that the conscious and often use of a blessing, especially when meeting someone for the first time, could well tip the scales.
If only people sneezed more often
We ARE who we think and chose to perceive ourselves to be, recreating ourselves in every thought and action of BEING. I'm sure you've heard the joke about the 'the guy who stopped to think' and 'forgot to start up again'? Well let me say, that would be no normal dude, more likely a Sat Baba.
Life happens at let us say (guess) 5% of what really is going on, on this plane of existence, while the other 95% is the intentional packaging, our interpretation, and attachments to past and future (possible) events. If we were to have even a small fraction of people practicing "Namaste", I believe that we'd recreate similar feelings to those you had along that Himalayan slope.
I like the conceptualization that much of our minds are semi-automatic, but just as is true for fire, our minds make much far better slaves than masters. When we feed the 'pig' as it were, of thinking thinking ..., with God filled images and thoughts we co-create that reality, we are blessed with the MIND AS SLAVE (to good thought and intention).
But, the flip side ( MIND AS MASTER ) is life as a 'reality show', where the disparate 'pig mentality' IS starving for input, and will clamp down on whatever is filtering in and/or floating by, which in this messy massive media culture is conditioning propaganda, ridiculous illogic, T & A, Brittanies latest thing, and/or road rage . . .
The framework fits well into your suggestion of intensifying each of our visualizations of the positive and good in all people, as well as in ourselves. As you indubitably already know, the greatest love is to love oneself (as w/o that, there really is little if no compassion or external world of worth).
Another quick story that you may enjoy. When I was learning in a group setting, this woman was so immersed in her self-imposed limitations, and was chanting that "it is so hard, it is so hard, ...". One of the trainers arrived on the scene and attempted to connect with her, by almost yelling to her "there is only one thing in life that has to be hard to be good, and this is not it."
Namaste
P.S. (I'm adding the mudra - hands together motion - from now on, based on your post)
So many beautiful posts---deepening our understanding and I believe our compassion. ANNEMARIE---I tried to respond to your frustration a couple of times, many posts above, and the function kept "eating" it. After two attempts on two separate occasions, I decided the Universe was trying to tell me something. Clearly, SIOUXROSE, NSPIRE, and several other beautiful submitters went WAY beyond my intended message.
I thank you all for the exquisite way this thread has been woven/expanded. And NSPIRE---loved your expansion of Namaste. I do believe if this were to become our cultural greeting, spoken with heart(full) understanding, a mighty transformation would take place, and PEACE, TRUTH, COMPASSION would break out everywhere.
AYMON-----Where are you? What do you think? Is it too "wannbe" an aspiration? Would it feel like desecration to other cultures?, not unlike our own Native Americans who sometimes resented our wannabe white folks playing at "Indian", or our "noble savage" stereotypes.
NSPIRE: When I was driving in these enchanting Florida Keys yesterday I had this thought about "Namaste," before you posted the explanation. Trekking in Nepal a few years ago, I loved meeting strangers and doing that "namaste" bow to them, as they reciprocated. I wondered if life in the US would change if we truly BLESSED everyone we met... made it a point, an exercise, to PRACTICE blessing others, strangers, all through our day. Could that help shift critical mass from this continent of abject fear to one where LOVE has a chance to begin doing what love does best: heal this wounded planet?
THE WONDERING YOU: I can't tell if you're mocking me, so I'll humor you. Nature, MOTHER nature that is, abhors a straight line, with the exception of the male erection. Better analysis, bro?
VAUDREE,
Consider that there are far more dangers then you state, regarding just the Saud: "There are a lot of holes but most of them can be explain with Cheney (or any of the companies he is associated with) having no vested interests in starting trouble with Saudi Arabia."
The subject matter of this thread is (in part) about how the gov't has used (& will) horrendous shocks as tools to obtain specific monetary and power based gains, forwarding their NWO and global interests.
Yes, the Saudi Arabian connection is an inviting issue, but not the most likely reason (if we assume the despicable worse case origination, not reaction to). This is to me, about illegitimately creating a new context for massive social change, that at other times (w/o shocks) wouldn't be allowed or condoned by even the most apathetic of populations.
Loss of Habeas Corpus (an 800 some year old foundation of Democracy), illegal wiretapping, illegal warmongering, illegal profiteering, . . . are all about stealing Americans blind of most of what was left of a participatory democracy.
When you state that "The fifth estate found NO credible evidence in the public domain to prove the U.S. government had any specific advance knowledge of exactly what would happen on September 11, 2001."
I respond that Condi Rice has publicly (almost) acknowledged (wouldn't read aloud the title of disclosed intelligence briefing) by holding that piece of paper, that directly debunked the witless 'we had no idea of such things (planes into buildings)' -- when that was almost EXACTLY the title of the memo she was holding onto during the hearing, from months before.
Namaste
The Fifth Estate does not deny that the Bush administration had prior information of the threat - only that they had prior information concerning the exact date of the planned attack.
The Fifth Estate does get things wrong, but not very often.
corvo, did you hear that Harper and Bush just lost a powerful friend in Australia? Kevin Rudd replaced the John Howard as Prime Minister . Kevin Rudd is for Kyoto and against the war in Iraq. And the icing on the cake - John Howard may lose his seat!
With Howard gone and Bush leaving office soon, Harper is going to find himself the odd man out.
Odd that you would refer to Harper as a mini-me since we referred to Bush as "King George's Mini-Me." Sadly 22 Minutes doesn't keep their stuff on line that long.
thewonderingyou, feel free to share any mention of chocolate! One exception - even I draw the line at chocolate flavoured chili - sadly I'm a minority.
RE Air Farce: It is a record of events leading up to the war in Iraq.
Thanks for wishing me well. At $13.58 for a bottle of 30 best to stay healthy!
nspire says: I doubt you would have used this argument, if you'd seen "Fahrenheit 911″, which explains how the 'house d Saud' had more than a dozen members flown out of the USA that day. What is significant about this is that the FAA had already shut down all of our airspace and grounded all commercial and private flights in USA.
You want to know how many times the CBC has aired F-911 or Bowling! They haven't aired Sicko yet, though.
I am using this argument precisely for that reason. If it was preplanned, wouldn't the Bin Ladens have been whisked away BEFORE it happened rather than RIGHT AFTER it happened. Also, Bush was not looking for dirt on Saudi Arabians because he had no interest in starting a war with Saudi Arabia (he - er - Cheney still doesn't!). Thus, he ignored the warnings prior to 9-11 and continued to down play Saudi Arabia's role in the event afterwards. And he was somewhat successful!
How many of your friends who get their information from FOX NEWS know that the 9-11 terrorists were mainly from Saudi Arabia and that none of them came from Canada or Iraq?
And remember that in the hours that followed 9-11 that Bush was trying very hard to link the attack to Saddam Hussain while the CBC was showing a documentary which contained school boy pictures of Osama Bin Laden. This was the only time that Osama making his presence known hurt Bush because it forced him to make a detour to Afghanistan - a war which is resulting in many Canadian deaths.
We know that, except for getting the Bin Ladens out of the country before they could be questioned and before anyone realised that they were there, that NORAD closed the American airspace to traffic. Where do you think many of the flights from overseas heading to the US landed!
Wikipedia says: Gander International Airport, which was the first North American airport on the trans-Atlantic route, took in 39 wide-body aircraft, mostly heading for U.S. destinations. The total number of passengers and crew accommodated at Gander was about 6,600. The total population of Gander is fewer than 10,000 people
Another major port, besides Gander NL was Halifax Nova Scotia, but Halifax has a fondness for helping American which goes back to the help they received from Boston following the Halifax explosion of 1917.
nspire says: The gov't shills had/have no reason at all to disclose any facts of the actual crashes, and building collapses (3 for 2 airplanes ?), and private investigations since 911, have uncovered (and spent) more.
Sure they did. Presidents always did better when external threats took the focus off of the American economy and domestic affairs. Remember Regan and his Cold War! If the Russians were so dangerous, why was Canada engaged in an 8 game hockey series with them - and why were Canadian hockey fans so eager to go to Russia to cheer on our team! Regan did not win the Cold war - Paul Henderson did during final moments of game 8.
Seriously, Russia was bluffing for the most part with how powerful they were militarily wise. Back to point, American Presidents do best when they have dangerous external enemies they need to protect their citizens from. The more frightening they can make these external enemies seem, the easier it is for them to convince the American people to fall into line with Political Correctness. Thus, it was in their best interest to play it up as much as possible.
While Air Farce is the most right wing of the Canadian comedies, they also tend to keep their videos on line the longest. The first time that they joked about Bush wanting to start a war in Iraq was Friday, February 23, 2001 - which was a bit before 9-11. They were interested in very little else at the time:
http://www.airfarce.com/video/010223.html
nspire says: We're branded as "conspiracy nuts" (all the grieving relatives and concerned citizens for resolving real causes),
There are a lot of holes but most of them can be explain with Cheney (or any of the companies he is associated with) having no vested interests in starting trouble with Saudi Arabia. Concede a point that it is difficult to distinguish between a cover up after the fact (what I figured happened) and pre planning (what you figure happens). If in doubt, one picks the former - especially if one figures one's book controvercial enough.
That said, Bush could have causes further damage to the buildings before pictures were taken to make the attack look worse than it was. Did anyone die from the bombing of the Pentagon? I forget.
The two incidents that tend to be talked of North of the 49th parallel are the two planes that flew into the WTC and the plane that crashed into the field. Note the wording:
Fifth Estate says: The fifth estate found NO credible evidence in the public domain to prove the U.S. government had any specific advance knowledge of exactly what would happen on September 11, 2001. / And many conspiracy theories seem like a waste of time. They depend on questionable characters like Mike Vreeland or involve wild allegations like those of Thierry Meyssan. / But many of these theories are based, at least in part, on legitimate questions that have remained unanswered since September 11th.
And we keep looking up to Bushite-Mini-Me-run Canada . . . why again?
Sorry, everyone, but if I had an email address, I'd send this message in a more private form, so this is another "I had to scroll down to the end to post a comment immediately" situation.
Siouxrose,
"Nature abhors a straight line"
Oh my gosh, before I thought we were mildly kindred spirits albeit taking different roads less traveled, but that quote sent me skyward. Hundertwasser, Kent, Brown, and the ecology teacher in college who inspired me to choose a major and become a teacher...is the universe trying to tell me to be a biogeographer? Are you casting spells, Siouxrose? I smell conspiracy. Or maybe that's just almonds? I made chocolate mole tonight, so my nose really can't be sure.
Thank you for again enlightening me as to your position. :D
HI VAUDRE,
Be healthy and receive our blessings to regain your vitality.
You mention that: "If it had been an inside job, the Bush administration would not have been stupid enough to have Bush's father attending a meeting with Bin Laden's brother the morning it happened. They would have also insured that Bin Laden family members were out of the country before it happened."
I doubt you would have used this argument, if you'd seen "Fahrenheit 911", which explains how the 'house d Saud' had more than a dozen members flown out of the USA that day. What is significant about this is that the FAA had already shut down all of our airspace and grounded all commercial and private flights in USA.
As a Physicist and Engineer, the "investigation" was a white wash and so full of holes that several planes loaded with real people could fly through "it", with room to spare.
Consider that the single TWA crash off Massachusetts spent ~ $ 400 million, for 270 deaths === while the net investigation for 4 airplanes killing ~3000 people was reluctantly increased from initial 8 million to something under 20. The gov't shills had/have no reason at all to disclose any facts of the actual crashes, and building collapses (3 for 2 airplanes ?), and private investigations since 911, have uncovered (and spent) more.
We're branded as "conspiracy nuts" (all the grieving relatives and concerned citizens for resolving real causes), and preemptively dismissed as having no merit for ALL the open issues (holes that I mentioned) when stacked up against the LITE version official investigative reports. If you're surprised to learn that the govt has been LIE'ing about almost everything else, remember that this is the "hole-y grail" of all lies, and the linch pin to throttle our once democracy further into corpocrapism and despotism.
Remember, this is the same govt spending some $ 2000 million every day on warmongering in the Mideast, so potentially spending 2 hours worth of that ($ 183 million), does seem justified to me (as compared to ~12 min worth actually spent). One doesn't even get what one pays for anymore.
I believe that each of our living rooms across the country, now contain those unmentionable two giraffes and hipo (see post of 23rd at 12:36 pm), and we've mostly agreed not to feverishly talk about it anymore. It's a big mistake not to close this gapping hole-y wound, drain the septic (infectious) fluids, cleanse the associated areas, and commence with the 6-yr delayed healing process (in open air).
We'll need much more amoxicilian than you're likely taking to instantiate the healing of this wounded country.
Namaste
You know that there is a Polish documentary crew in Canada right now planning to do a documentary on Robert Dziekanski's death. They say that they harbour no ill will against Canada :rolleyes . What are the chances that the doc will be shown on the CBC.
AnnaMarie: Avi had three shows on CBC - "Counterspin" (which he quit to do the film with his wife), a few test episodes of "Big Picture" and "On the Map." I am a fan of Avi. The best of the BP docs is "The Human Behaviour Experiments" with "The Root 0f All Evil?" being the funniest. Son kicking me off so will find answer tomorrow. Note that what you consider "radical" I consider logical, common sense and, eventually (if we get enough decent human beings in places of power), common place.
pacplyer says: Taser = torture. If it's used as a method of torture at gitmo on the nads
There are very few things done to the nads that a male would not consider to be torture. In many cases (ie Arar's), the torturer doing the whipping pretended to accidentally hit those areas rather than target them.
andrewr says: Canada STILL prides itself on being better the native Americans than the USA was and yet it STILL breaks agreements with them, evdn today (The Kelowna Accord worth $5 billion).
You know how easy it is for Canada to feel good about themselves by comparing themselves to the States. We can't do that at the Commonwealth Summit in Uganda where, with Australia not showing up (and the US not in it) we are the sole assholes in the castle.
Martin negotiated the Kenowna Accord and Harper scrapped it - Phil Fontaine was not to pleased about that I tell you! Nor was Phil Fontaine too pleased when Harper would not support the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (as jmacneil mentions), though he was pleased that it passed any way. Harper did earn some brownie points for settling the Residential School abuse claims - but not much.
If you look closely at Harper's latest throne speech (put "throne" in a CTV search and you will find both video and transcript) Harper is proposing private (rather than tribe) ownership of Native lands - which basically means that each resident would have property until they fall behind on their land taxes because there are no jobs up there. The police are no better - there is no excuse for what happened to Neil Stonechild.
From AFN: "Assembly of First Nations National Chief Phil Fontaine seeks support and assurances from the Federal Government on proposed changes to Bill C-21"
http://www.afn.ca/article.asp?id=3941
Siouxrose says: If politics comes up, I mention the 911 inside job aspect and they turn pale.
Personally, I think that there was more direct culpability with Katrina because everyone knew it was inevitable if the levee wasn't fixed and the wealthier areas of New Orleans remained dry.
Bush gained office on January 20, 2001 - eight months before 9-11. Clinton did tell Bush to pay attention to the file, but they were all more interested in digging up dirt about Saddam Hussain than about taking Clinton's advice. I think that part of it was a mindset that wars are something that happens elsewhere rather than on American soil. It was more direlegation (sp?) of duty rather than something pre-planned. Though Bush was able to use his own incompetence to his advantage after the fact.
If it had been an inside job, the Bush administration would not have been stupid enough to have Bush's father attending a meeting with Bin Laden's brother the morning it happened. They would have also insured that Bin Laden family members were out of the country before it happened. For Bush to pull off the transformation from zero to hero, these were embarrassing details that required quite a bit of damage control.
Anyone have a list of the songs that were banned on radio right after 9-11? You can tell that the list was done on the fly! There are songs they omitted. Ok, this point is weak, but no one has addressed why Papa Bush would be attending the same meeting the morning of 9-11.
The other thing is that Naomi Klein researched her points and presumably figures that everything in there she can back up. Even if she could dismiss what happened at the Carlyle group meeting and thought it was an inside job, she can't back it up, so she will leave it out. That way the book doesn't come back to bite her after.
BTW - You know why Canadians don't say "911" - it is because there was a different "911" controversy - known as the 911 Murders - which occurred on February 16, 2000 (only the Rick Boguski link works). The doors are not too strong on slum housing - if someone really wants to get in there is not much you can do to stop them:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/aboriginals/winnipeg911.html
nspire, Temple Grandin figured out a more humane way to kill cows. While some of those things may ease the suffering of those in pallative care, let no one think of a more humane form of genocide or ethnic cleansing! And speaking of "humane" - the US considers lethal injection a more "humane" form of corporal punishment than other formers of corporal punishment. But does that make corporal punishment humane?
Ok that is the fever and amoxicilian talking.
Honestly the climate in Jersey is so frightened stiff conformist, not one person in a thousand will even display an anti-war bumper sticker on their car as they drive to their job for fear of the same treatment as this poor Polish guy. People are being turned into frightened zombies by the police. It's darn contagious too.
I'm a participant in what the RCMP boss is referring to as "a rush to judgement" on the Vancouver Airport disgrace.
I've already written to Ottawa.
Yes, I'll go with what I saw, underscored by what I've been yammering about on Common Dreams from the start... CHUMPIFICATION.
It has always been with us, this strutting and flexing by chumpy uniformed bullies and their insistence that we'd all be lost to Darkness without their paranoid heroics, but it's many times worse in recent years.
You can get a good sense of chumpification by observing parking-ticket "enforcers" in any city these days.
These clowns would love Tasers and handcuffs.
I saw one in our local donut shop with handcuffs through his epaulettes.
(what's goin' on...a high-risk takedown over by the boston creams.... you moron?)
Overkill?
No, no. Everything has changed since 9-11, that's the stock answer.
If these Vancouver bozos weren't in police uniform they'd be locked up without bail pending charges of criminal assault causing death.
But no, they've been "re-assigned".
Wouldn't it be a good thing as you drive into Vancouver to see AM radio signs offering information on where these thugs are working?
"For your own safety, please avoid the area....."
Oops. Was Vaudree who provided that link to Lewis at the CBC. Thanks Vaudree.
Thanks nspire for the other link.
SiouxRose, thank you and especially for suggesting what might be Klein's reason for not going further, a legit fear of entering into the abyss. It's true, it can cause a mind paradigm shift; even a disturbing split. This is a possibility that I hadn't considered. Naturally, I have no way of knowing if this is her real reason or if there is some other motivation. That being said, it/your suggestion makes good food for thought and I'll keep it in mind. Much appreciated.
I also feel that it is up to each of us to decide whether or not we venture into deeper waters. You can lead someone to water, you cannot make them think. [sic] In fact this sentiment/approach can apply to most things in life.
Nspire, thanks for Mooing. I'm mooing too. Can you hear me? ;) Thanks also for linking to that CBC clip with Avi Lewis (Klein's husband). I've long regarded Lewis as a superb host and a stellar moderator, and this clip only reinforces my impression of him. I'd highly recommend this particular video to all readers here. It's funny too, early on in that CBC 'town-hall' discussion, there was one guy whom Lewis referred to as "the peace maker", Jewish man, can't recall his name right now, sorry. Point is, he made a brilliant, salient point and it was something about which I was thinking before I began to view the clip. Paraphrasing him (badly I'm afraid): we ALL need to get to the root of this Palestinian/Israeli problem. We need to get to the root of our individual (and therefore also our collective) identities. We ALL need to start re-cognizing, i-dentifying our-selves for what we are first and foremost: human beings (or human animals if you prefer). Realize that at our essence, we are ALL the same, and that we are all in this leaky boat together.
This is a truly radical way of thinking. Radical means to get to the root. Look it up if you doubt me.
Some will dismiss what I'm saying as vapour or vacuous, or as a fanciful, airy-fairy way of thinking. It isn't. It is a truth, a fact of life that we for ludicrously obstinate reasons (ego-based) overlook time and aeon again, at our peril. I'm not exaggerating.
Sages have been telling us the same for ages. And there are as many messages (and methods) as there are messengers.
Solutions are right in front of us. The answers are simple. And they are clear. Implementing the solutions will certainly take some time because we've taken a lot of time to complicate matters. And it seems to take longer to build or rebuild than it takes to destroy. Bombs and bullets are horribly efficient, aren't they. And efficiency is horribly overrated. However I've found that the penalties for mocking the truth or ignoring reality are that truth will, in turn, mock you and reality will in turn ignore you. I know that sounds preposterous. Oh well...
There is not a single human living or dead who was/is first a Jew, Muslim, Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, or Male, Female, or American, Asian, African, etc. and THEN a human being. We are all human beings first and foremost, and all equal in this respect. The rest of our i-dentity is only mere layers upon this foundation. Heck, Aristotle put it succinctly, he described it thusly: as "accidents of birth". Yet there are still many, too many, far and wide who embrace a tragic and false i-dentity. Mooooo!
C'est la vie. No matter how little or how far we've come or gone, we've still got much, much further to go. I swear that until we become radical, get to the root, particulary the root of our i-dentity we aren't going to progress an iota. Moo!
Thanks to those who read this and find it worthwhile. Apologies to those who find it a yawn.
Namaste. Namaste means peace, right?
HYBRIDOMA2001,
You've reminded me of the subtle tricks used in "Chicago of blood', to aid the finessing and passage of animals (dutiful domesticated USans) indubitably to their doom, but with luckless abandon.
You state that: "It's symbolic, in a way, of what the American Dream has become."
More so than you may already know.
Are any of you readers familiar with Temple Grandin's "Thinking in Pictures"? If not, please be wonderfully surprised and rewarding by going here
Beyond the exceptionally transforming and inspirational story of an autistic genius surviving and thriving, and the gifts of her disability (which in part I share) - which need be read by all - you will find a bizarre and unexpected story of the stockyards (what?).
Yes, the stockyards of a now more humanely guided ramp design, that Temple visualized as how to eliminate the foreknowledge of pending death. Immensely successful (and profitable to the owners), her signature design has been incorporated into almost half of all stockyards.
My reason for bringing this forward to discuss is the insidiously clever design is so simple, as to just add a curving wall, so that the herd cannot see the deaths of those ahead of them, which would otherwise create hormone'ically tainted product (adrenaline surging, yucking with the meat's goodness). OK, this is a stretch from a vegetarian's perspective, but diminished customer value and loss of profit is not.
MOOOOOO'ing loudly, some of us in the herd can see the agents-of-death right there before us clearly, but then the media circus installs the curved wall (effects) to deflect our cries and sight from others, so that "progress" (death, war) can continue unimpeded.
Didn't Chicago have another famous cow story of evidently significant note: the great Chicago Fire (1871) was (previously) blamed on a cow thought to have kicked over a lantern in Mrs. O'Leary's barn. Perhaps that wonderfully brilliant and committed cow, was but attempting the burn those stockyards to the ground?
Shouldn't we first tear down our own curved walls, raise the torch high, and allow others to see for themselves what LIES before USans?
Namaste
cromerovich says: Harper is a cunning opportunist and would definitely pursue the Jewish voting base at the expense of Muslims or Lebanese or of remaining neutral. Although 3 out of 4 Lebanese are Muslim I suspect there are a higher percentage of Christian Lebanese in Canada. I think on balance there is reason to suspect Harper's ideological bias playing a strong role here, plus his total lack of empathy.
I was trying to skate around that a bit. CTV said that Harper was repeating verbatum what Bush and Condi said before him. There were Jews who were protesting what Israel did to the Palestinians. The other story besides the death of Kruedener was the controversies concerning getting Canadian Palestinians out of the country before the conflict started. The whole thing was a mess:
Seems that there was a road that people had to cross to get to the ports to get out of the country. Seems that one could get shot and killed crossing this road. Those who braved the road and made it to the ports had a situation where there was no food or bathrooms and if they went out of line, they would not get on the ship out of there - and a few nasty things like that.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/middleeast-crisis/canada-reacts.html
There is a reason why media mogul Izzy Aspers sons are Conservative - despite the fact that their father was a life long Liberal - even talking about running again for the party the night he died. Izzy Asper is behind the Human Rights Museum in Canada - which is to tell our history "warts and all" but I think that war crimes against Lebanon and Palestine will be designated to the broom closet. When Lord Conrad Black sold off his Canadian holdings (at the time he renounced his Canadian citizenship), he sold them to the Aspers. Izzy seemed to think that any country named after himself could do no wrong.
Then there is Avi Lewis. I have seen Avi tell guests that they could come up with better arguments before or even come up for a few for them if he figures they are in trouble. However, I have never ever ever seen him get angry at a guest before (town hall):
http://www.cbc.ca/bigpicture/house.html
Avi is Naomi Klein's husband.
Got to go son has appointment. Rest later.
SIOUXROSE (and ANNEMARIE),
Excellent point when you mention, "perhaps Naomi takes us to its edge, but herself must pause".
IMAMYSELF,
So true to caution us "it's not their job to make us look into the abyss, but ours", as that is empowerment for USans (against THEYans? - ha).
I see her approach as an inoculation of a very nasty (abysmal) virus, that through repetition, may ultimately allow as you say "paradigm-shifting (and thus requires a strong host)", which you also add "to retain a semblance of her own sanity". Perhaps our own sanity?
The irony of SHOCK DOC (MD ?) is that her book is of itself but another example of a continuous assault on our fragmenting connections to others, so perhaps her kindness is in minimizing the truth until we can best digest the small pieces (now mountain size, all together).
Does anyone else see how unbelievably "lucky" we have been provided the "branding" (~ No Logo) of Sept 11 == as 911, == our call and plea for assistance during emergencies (and txt msgs), so that every time we associate one, we are psychically linked to the other? This is too crafty and insidious to be mere coincidence, it is the essential incontrovertible signature of PSYOPS. For example, consider how we might think of it, if it had occurred on April's Fool day?
I see in this thread - the heads shaking in disbelief of NAOMI's seemingly disconnect - but she could hardly be more obvious given the entire context of all she says - perhaps it was just the knowing nod to the power structure of the publishers and news media - that 'if I do this, we can all agree not to talk about the twin giraffes, in the room (and a hippopotamus,, with a #7 on it)'?
When you mention that "WE are there", I agree (now at the "the mercy of said government"), but would also plea, empower, inspire, and hope that we can culturally stabilize, re-connect, and thereby move forward by literally shaking off the SHOCK.
Maybe someone lurking, could even create their screen name as SHOCK_Dr, and dispense the cure for our ills?
Namaste
Sheesh! No wonder the Republican Neo-cons have gotten the better of us. They seem to have learned that a united front toward a common goal is an effective tactic. 'Democrats', liberals, progressives et.al. have been most effective at clawing themselves to ribbons before even getting on the 'field of battle'. It seems to me that the people of this country who have some kind of reputation in the area of critical thought could do better, but the goal is going to have to start being put ahead of individual ego. Not ALL of us can have the best idea, how about we get behind a GOOD one and accept that as progress.
Veteran 66-68
see amy goodman's interview with bill here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/21/1520253
also check out the interview on that same day's show regarding an expose on the Catholic church's using Chinese sweatshop labor to produce the crucifixes sold at church stores.
Throwing a chair...for chrissakes now that's preterrorist behavior.. Canadian pigs are humane and even refined and taser "our poor and wretched" to death. If that were JFK airport rest assured amerikan bulls would would have shot the unfortunate man "multiple" times and get commended for doing their duty.
We are all expendable; only capital has rights!
Oops!!! Big mistake on location. I have been reading the Iron Heel and thinking about US cities got me thinking of Chicago and O'Hare International.
Somebody shock me to snap me out of it and realize the disease is spreading to good old Canada.
"Sometimes people cannot look directly into the abyss… perhaps Naomi takes us to its edge, but herself must pause there to retain a semblance of her own sanity."
Agreed, Siouxrose, but sometimes it's not their job to make us look into the abyss, but ours.
If we keep killing our messengers, we'll have no one left to take us anywhere.
PJD, this goes way back in this thread, but I also know that there are many Russian Jews who moved into the Squirrel Hill neighborhood and, as you mentioned Polish Hill is another neighborhood where I have many close friends from my childhood. In fact, Pittsburgh, PA is the only city I have lived in where it is so clear where groups of immigrants have come to live. Of course, San Francisco has the Castro district, but I don't know of any other city where an overwhelming number of immigrants from one country have moved to. I know I'm wrong, but in my experience, this is what I know to be true about one city.
And the name "Polish Hill" isn't used in any derogatory manner; it's simply called Polish Hill because of so many Polish people live there. Again with San Francisco, there's Russian Hill. But you won't find many Russians there today.
Aside from that, it's amazing to me that an International Airport they couldn't make the effort to find some person who spoke this man's language. It's not like he was speaking Inuit or some other obscure language.
What has happened is that we've become a people afraid of our own shadows, thanks to Rove et al. As the nurse pointed out in her post, there are non lethal ways to handle such situations and the police – especially airport security – should be trained in this, that is, if they aren't already.
We've not only become a fearful society, but that fear has lead to a lack of common sense. What purpose did it serve to not allow the mother of this man in to speak with him? Sure there are rules, but these rules are for normal situations. In the extreme situation this man found himself, a little common sense would have gone a long way by bending the rules in this exceptional case.
So, speaking in general, we have become a fearful, less free, domesticated herd which moves in what ever direction the herders tell us to move. For the livestock that gets out of line, there's always the electronic cattle prod to get the strays back in with the herd.
Chicago has always been a center of the livestock industry, where domesticated animals were sent to be clubbed by the knockers and then bled to death before cutting up the remains to be packaged and sent off to where ever. It's symbolic, in a way, of what the American Dream has become.
ANNEMARIE: I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis. As to why Klein shuns the obvious, there may still be this morsel of incredulity with respect to what one's government is capable of doing to its own. Katrina was overt racism aided and abetted by nature's unsettled winds (climate change), and compromised priorities (funding for Army Corps Engineers and the levees). I met a lawyer from Berkeley out in Malaysia in 2004 and told him I believed 911 was an inside job. He thought I was an absolute crackpot. I live in North Florida and when I meet men, they are all Republican born-again Christian types... If politics comes up, I mention the 911 inside job aspect and they turn pale. Many of these guys have spent time in one military branch or another, and their loyalty to the nation as an entity carries with it an almost mythical belief in its leadership. Others have elaborated in this forum, the extent to which processing by movies, TV shows, the National anthem, all inculcate a population into thinking its prized, can do no wrong, holds special status given the relative position(s) of other nations. Sometimes people cannot look directly into the abyss... perhaps Naomi takes us to its edge, but herself must pause there to retain a semblance of her own sanity. It's quite paradigm-shifting (and thus requires a strong host) for an individual to recognize what its government is capable of... and worse still, where that puts the individual who to an extent stands at the mercy of said government. WE are there.
This just goes to prove the point that if you ask three progressives a question, you'll get five responses.
Whoo boy...
On Septmeber 13 the UN adopted the Declaration of Indigenous Rights and the only four countries which voted against it were Canada, the U.S., Australia and New Zealand. All four of those countries are ruled exclusively by racist white governments which obtained their control by the expedient of mass murdering a large percentage of the indigenous peoples. The methodology for taking control of territory and resources has changed little since those times and any time you hear of a government initiating privatization then you know for sure the grand larceny has commenced in earnest.
The corporate governments, which are nothing more than organized criminal gangs, are too stupid to comprehend that their days are rapidly coming to an end and so they keep flooding the media with their imbecilic propaganda, like Klein's "shock doctrine" nonsense, in an effort to muddy the thought processes of the general population so that they will never have a clear understanding of the reality. It's why you see their scumbag stooges now posting voluminous material on the internet, not just in forums but also on a profusion of websites, because the more trash they can publish the more they can slow down participation and try to dilute the real contributions.
"Canada used to be a "gentle" society with an extensive safety net - things change"
It's such a myth. Ask the First Nations people whose heritage has been destroyed by the colonisation of north America and the establishment of Canada. Canada STILL prides itself on being better the native Americans than the USA was and yet it STILL breaks agreements with them, evdn today (The Kelowna Accord worth $5 billion). The history of Canada is the history of brutality towards First Nations.
We should be grateful for technology like the taser. In 1939, facism had to go to Poland; now it can attack Polish people whereever they go!
vaudree: I lived and worked in Beirut for almost 4 years. That was a long time ago but I occasionally check up on things and I follow any war that starts there more closely. Although reasonably well traveled I was still a teenager when I moved there. It had a profound effect on me and I consider the time there as the most educational and mind opening in my life -an excellent education for putting everything else in perspective and unfortunately rounding out the cynicism rather nicely.
I made a personal point of gathering all the information I could on the Kruedener incident as I could feel something was wrong. For example, the New York Times reported, totally incorrectly, that it was a stray artillery shell that hit the UN post yet it was fortified to withstand those. It was hushed up rather too quickly.
Harper is a cunning opportunist and would definitely pursue the Jewish voting base at the expense of Muslims or Lebanese or of remaining neutral. Although 3 out of 4 Lebanese are Muslim I suspect there are a higher percentage of Christian Lebanese in Canada. I think on balance there is reason to suspect Harper's ideological bias playing a strong role here, plus his total lack of empathy.
Taser = torture. If it's used as a method of torture at gitmo on the nads, then pushing near lethal, high voltage/low amperes electrons through human cells for compliance in an airport is wrong. Period. In fact it's unconstitutional in the U.S. It constitutes cruel and unusual punishment and I'm ashamed of my fellow Americans who condone this kind of torture.
If a five foot tall 130 lb airport security guard is afraid to do her job and restrain a big distraught passenger humanely with handcuffs until he cools off or gets a translator, then the government is remiss in hiring such a small person to subdue the largest members of society.
This is common sense, but, we live on with senseless forms of government because, why?
That's how it is now done in the United Police States of UnAmerica. What a shameful example to the world are we! It's discusting enough to make one want to side with the Anarchists who claim that it can't be fixed; that we must abolish this type of goverment because of this long train of inhumane abuses.
But the sheeple of the Fatherland will do whatever the SS tells them to; with zero resistance.
The only amendment we have left is the first amendment; and even it is under severe attack.
Never be silent.
Never give up free speech.
Mr. Freeze, please seek anger management therapy
We have had it .......... what do you think we can do anymore?
kelmer wrote: "You know, I dont really see a connection between police tasers and shock doctrine."
In a civilised system designed for humans, not global corporations, we perhaps could treat all humans with equal respect and when they are in difficulty we would try to understand and solve these difficulties with compassion.
However, to maintain a system that treats humanity as the flotsam and jetsam tossed on the tides of corporate greed, and creates massive hardships for innumerable people just like ourselves, treating those sufferings as merely further business opportunities; to maintain that system it requires people to see other people as something not deserving of understanding or compassion. It requires police with tazers, batons and teargas; it requires Schools of the Americas to train thugs in torture. It requires bombers and satellites to guide the bombs. It requires compliant dictators, election fraud, and regime changes. But most of all, it requires millions of Joes and Janes doing their jobs, earning their bread, paying their taxes, minding their own business, accepting what they are told, and NOT giving a damn as long as they think the tyranny does not touch them.
No it does not touch them. Because as they accept the inhumanity, they ARE the tyranny.
So you don't see the connection when an agent of authority, in a situation under their control, kills the very person who needs their help most, unintentionally or otherwise, because they saw that person as a threat? They were just doing their job in our complex and developed CIVILISED system, I guess.
vaudree November 21st, 2007 6:00 pm
annemarie j, you are looking at it as an isolated incident rather than a brick in a bigger picture of events. It is not just about punishing these cops but about preventing future results. And, for Naomi, it is not just about the safety tasers or police brutality but the brutality of Corporatism.
What were the names of those people who broke machines during the industrial revolution because they felt the machines were destroying their livelihoods during the Industrial Revolution in England? I assure you that there became stronger laws to protect machines than humans during that time period.
It is the same pattern happening here - or starting to happen.
----------------------------------------------------
No, I was not looking at that incident in isolation. That's not something I typically do btw. I wholeheartedly believe in prevention, and in this case specifically as preventing future incidents of police brutality. Which is why I said that those cops should be charged with manslaughter or murder. Surely that sort of precedent could put all police/law enforcement officers on notice, and go a long way towards prevention? That's how I see it. However, I'm not holding my breath given how much police brutality is routine and how even when police are caught red-handed abusing citizens they are rarely-to-never held accountable for their actions/crimes. Above the law is what it's called.
I also get Klein's take on the brutality of corporatism. Nevertheless, the fact remains that I'm skeptical of Klein, specifically her complete motivations, in other words, her integrity. That is why I also provided this link above
http://www.bestcyrano.org/THOMASPAINE/?p=429#comment-7815
It's a review in which the writer loudly wonders why Klein skims over 9/11 in stark contrast to how she treats other shocking, catalyzing events. Here's an excerpt:
---
I have been bewildered by a singular stochastic perspective of Naomi Klein in her brilliant, exhaustive, superbly-documented book The Shock Doctrine. In it Klein builds an intricate and convincing case for the use of various techniques of trauma applied to societies and individuals during the twentieth century and continuing into the current moment for the purpose of perpetrating what has become one of her hallmark phrases, "disaster capitalism" Yet two pages in the book left me aghast. The first is Pages 11-12 which refer to September 11, 2001 and state:
The Bush team seized the moment of collective vertigo with chilling speed-not, as some have claimed, because the administration deviously plotted the crisis but because the key figures of the administration, veterans of earlier disaster capitalism experiments in Latin America and Eastern Europe, were part of a movement that prays for crisis the way drought-struck farmers pray for rain, and the way Christian-Zionist end-timers pray for the Rapture.
After hearing endless interviews of Klein and reading numerous articles about the book when it first hit the stores in September, and being very familiar with the disaster capitalism thesis, the above quote from the book's first pages were astonishing in their inconsistency with nearly every other page of the book.
---
For the record, I'm not advocating dismissing Klein or her work entirely. That's not my point or position as I'm not in the habit of tossing the baby with the bath water. What I'm expressing is this: that by virture of her connections, familial and otherwise, that by virtue of her popularity and success, that by virtue of her position and career, that Klein is a de facto part of the "elite", the mainstream. She's a professional journalist and author and is getting fat on her work. Yes? No problem there. However, by virtue of the fact that Klein regards 9/11 as 'they didn't do it, rather they allowed it to happen and then exploited it' makes me doubt her integrity, her trustworthiness.
These words of Klein's are jaw-dropping unbelievable to me: "The Bush team seized the moment of collective vertigo with chilling speed-not, as some have claimed, because the administration deviously plotted the crisis but because the key figures of the administration, veterans of earlier disaster capitalism experiments in Latin America and Eastern Europe, were part of a movement that prays for crisis the way drought-struck farmers pray for rain, and the way Christian-Zionist end-timers pray for the Rapture."
And then this from the review:
---
With respect to 9/11, Klein's incisive grasp of disaster capitalism's brilliantly devised, superbly-engineered machinations alongside her stochastic insistence that the administration did not deviously plot the catastrophe defies all logic. By Page 400, the reader has digested an encyclopedia of conspiracies carried out by a series of U.S. administrations of both political parties, but on Page 426 is nevertheless asked to believe that 9/11 "just happened".
On that page comes the most breathtaking statement of all-that quote to which I promised to return. Arguing that the U.S. government did not have a hand in the attacks, Klein states:
The truth is at once less sinister and more dangerous. An economic system that requires constant growth, while bucking almost all serious attempts at environmental regulation, generates a steady stream of disasters all on its own, whether military, ecological or financial.
I could not agree with Klein more in terms of economies based on growth generating a steady stream of disasters, but 9/11 is a bit more than a few molecules in a "steady stream." It was and is the defining moment in the history of disaster capitalism.
The truth of 9/11, says Klein is "less sinister, and more dangerous"? What could be more dangerous than the U.S. government orchestrating the attacks in order to achieve all of the motivations that Klein has so incisively and painstakingly explained? After 425 pages of unrelenting recitations of bona fide conspiracy, I am asked to swallow the stochastic non-analysis of a steady stream in which 9/11 just happened to rear its ugly head?
---
So now I'd like to ask can any other fans/readers of The Shock Doctrine explain how Klein dropped the ball regarding 9/11? Surely it can't be an *oversight*?!?
Honestly, I cannot give the time of day to well connected, well established, otherwise intelligent and otherwise truth-telling writers, journalists, authors, et al... who only tiptoe towards the full truth of what really happened on that fateful day, or who won't dare risk reputation, career or even discomfort to publicly acknowledge that 9/11 was another in a long series of false flag events.
So to me, Klein seems to be just another useful "steam vent", diversion, or distraction, even while she offers some truths to the rest of us, the hoi polloi. As a result, I simply cannot regard her as a radical truth teller/seeker.
Almost forgot, I stand by my earlier "depressing and moronic" comment heheheh about how Naomi Klein's just pimping her book. ;)
Finally, I believe those people whom vaudree was asking about were/are called Luddites. And the elite have always regarded the rest of us as mere cattle, serfs, slaves, or cannon fodder whether or not we embrace or reject technology, etc... This is not a new phenomenon.
I guess it is Thanksgiving here in the USA, and this sad little piece lingers at the top of CD's list, what with all good folks celebrating the generocity of native Americans (I by the way live by and work on a Res and notice that even they, for some reason best known to themselves celebrate this tragic event, much the same way the British almost celebrate the 4th of July).
I had a chance to look at some of the posts which occured since yesterday, when I last wrote on this wothy forum. I was both congratulated for rising bravely in defence of Poland and derided for inaccuracy and cofusion in my statements.
In response to both, let me say this (& I am not a collector of statistics, this is just vaguely recollected stuff): A (certain, large enough) percentage of British people belive that Mt. Everest is locaceted in Britain. An even larger percentage belive that it is located somewhwere in Europe (BBC a few days ago).
The kind of information people have about Poland is mired in prejudice, falsely created images, lazy research by authoritative writers, and biased propargandists. Poland is not a tragic, stricken land. I am not Polish myself, but I have travelled there, speak the language (somewhat), and have some appreeciatin of its history and culture. |I also have a habit of rooting for unappreciated cultures and issues. Lets not spread more misinformation. The Czechoslovak Brothers and Borat should belong to our distant past.
(BTW there is not 40% unemployment among Polish youth, Dziekanowski was middle aged, and emigration has a minimal effect on a coutry's unemployment rate)
Vaudree, I will attempt an answer for you.
Robert Dziekanski's flight was international and thus the agreed meeting place, the luggage carousel, was unfortunately inside the restricted Custom's area.
I think what makes Dziekanski's death so poignant to the majority of Canadians is that had the meeting place been outside of customs the world would never have heard of Robert Dziekanski or his mother. They would have met and been on their way to a new life. Canadians view Canada as a calm, peaceful, hospitable country that has historically always welcomed immigrants; police are (or were) viewed as protectors, not thugs to be feared. Thus the long sequence of scandal, corruption and abuse from and within the RCMP has now come to a head with Robert Dziekanski as the icon of that frustration and anger.
You ask "What other groups of people are looked at as expendable besides sex trade workers? The immigrant who can't speak English? The homeless person? Protesters?"
I think as Canada slides to the Right Wing that something I call Binary Impairment Syndrome comes into play. Extremes of Right filter everything through a good-evil, black-white lens. The more Right it gets the less nuance is allowed and thus you have the silly binary affectations like "Canada's New Government" and moronic expressions like "if you are not for us, you are against us".
It is also common with the Right Wing to blame the victim, so if the RCMP is obviously good then Dziekanski must obviously be bad and got just what he deserved. A classic example of blame the victim can be seen from Harper's immediate response to Major Hess-von Kruedener, a Canadian UN observer in a shell resistant fortified bunker standing alone on a hilltop that was hit by an accurate to 1 meter laser guided bunker buster from an Israeli warplane. The "accident" was blamed on an old Israel military map even though the 4 storey building emblazoned with UN markings had stood there alone for decades.
"What was he doing there?" was Harper's immediate response to the news. His job, you empathy lacking Right Wing moron.
So to answer your question Vaudree, as Canada slides Right who becomes expendable? Well, clearly, eventually anyone who is not one of us, the Right. Unfortunately, although not all Right-Wingers are ignorant, most ignorant people in Canada vote Right and that represents a large voting pool. Unless Canada can rid itself of this latest government it is only going to get worse. Sorry.
stinger, that is the way things get done in Canada. People ask, during conversations of Maher Arar, how many in the US this has happened to and we don't know it. The only reason we know what happened is because Maher Arar allowed himself to be used as a poster boy for this.
The only way we will ever deal with this Taser issue (as far as Police and RCMP go) and stop Taser from selling its product to civilians in Canada is for Robert Dziekanski's name to get worked into articles of people with millions of interested readers. The only way we will ever get to the bottom of this is if, with every new Taser death (like the one today in Nova Scotia), Robert Dziekanski's name gets mentioned.
On a related topic, the Crown is giving its closing statement in the Robert Pickton case today. It is no accident that Pickton chose as his victims the most marginalized people of our society. Many police officers were reluctant to search for missing sex-trade workers because these people are considered to be expendible. Lets be glad that Tasers were not for public consumption in Canada at the time when Pickton was doing his dirty work. If they were, missionary would have been as dangerous as doggie style!
Crown=District Attorney
How easy is it for the average American to walk into a store and purchase a Taser?
Pauline VanKoll knew a few of Pickton's victims. She used to be a sex trade worker before becoming a reporter.
http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2007/02/022507_1.html
What other groups of people are looked at as expendable besides sex trade workers? The immigrant who can't speak english? The homeless person? Protesters?
The moles will be decorating their posts with emoticons and red ink next. Tip for moles: it's not the amount of words used that make an impression, but the idea which the words elucidate.
thanks for the illuminating discussion on the book. I have a clearer idea of it all the time.
as I refuse to purchase much of anything at the moment I may read it when it's free if it stays current.
A brilliant friend of mine who relates to the book wrote this in 2005, so I hope he doesn't mind my quoting it:
"The sole danger then for those who are the most comfortable today, is the possibility that a majority of individuals might become less than enamored with this status quo arrangement and seek to take the action (positive) necessary to change it. Since in-action (negative) on the part of a majority is now synonymous with the existence of status quo social order, the cost of its efficient implementation within society achieves certain economic value. A cost "those who possess the economic clout" can well afford and are happy to pay in a desperate attempt for self-preservation."
Blaine Whittle
Copyright 9/7/05
Naomi, please lay off the self promotion, which is what this comes across as and it cheapens the terrific book you've written. Yes I've read it and I'm rereading it. I'm finding through making notes and comparisons with world events in the last 60 years in particular it definitely fills in many missing or deliberately concealed events. Events that have steered the course of our recent history worldwide and provides a context for current and future events that is at the very least, unsettling.
In the matter of what was done to Robert Dziekanski, this is a travesty that needs direct attention in and of itself and making Mr. Dziekanski disappear into the institution of this 'shock doctrine' is every bit as criminal as all of the others that have 'disappeared'.
THIS MAN's life and THIS MAN's hopes and THIS MAN's family and the loss of everything THIS MAN was to the world should not be allowed to disappear into 'a series of events' or 'the system' or a 'doctrine'. Robert Dziekanski should be on posters the size of office towers the world over as a rallying point against the new global economic order that elevates only the top 0.1% while systematically crushing the lives of everyone else.
Governments the world over need to be reminded whom they serve, by any means necessary.
ryski
you have to admit that one of the main reasons your unemployment has come down is people fleeing your country for jobs
Hmmm...who would have thought that a simple op-ed article on the socio-economic tragedies of today's Poland could spawn so much vitriol and divergent discussion. We might sort these issues, then proceed.
Naomi, though you are many years my junior I look to your work as a beacon in journalistic and political darkness. Thank you. Perhaps you might do an article on what seems to be an increase in police 'brutality' in Canada. Here in the great white north we are lightyears behind the US in our ability to turn a blind eye to justice, but under this current right-of-center Harper administration we are doing our best to descend the slippery slope. Frightening.
To quote an insightful American, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." Martin Luther King
You should read Ms. Klein's book. She's taking a thesis she talks about in great length in a 300-400 page book and shortening it down to a short article.
Sorry if you don't get it or in extreme denial, but torture and economic shocks go hand in hand. That's the point at which Ms. Klein opens here book .... the CIA torture experiments at McGill Univ. She traces those techniques around the world and everytime they show up hand-in-hand with economic shock.
The economic shocks like the one she describes in Poland do not happen with the democratic consent of the people. She starts her book in Argentina and Chile, where democratic governments were overturned by military coups. It took the killing of democracy to begin these economic policies. And the electric shocks are always a part of this. The majority of the people, who are being screwed by the economic policies that only make a few rich, have to be kept in line. Thus, we always, and I repeat ALWAYS, see police officers wielding their favorite electric shock toys to make sure that the people don't object to the fact that they are being screwed and ripped off to make other people rich.
Ms. Klein is dead on point. In this case, this poor man thought he was going towards freedom, only to discover to his horror that places like Canada and the US empower the same sort of police sadists. And it happens for the same reasons here, only the wielding of the power to protect the thieving rich is a bit more subtle here.
Jacob Freeze, could there not have been more than one taser incident in BC - considering that BC RCMP are the top users of tasers in the country?
B.C. Mounties top users of Taser among RCMP members in Canada: report
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/20/bc-tasers.html
CTV British Columbia: St. John Alexander on how Tasers are viewed south of the border 2:11 (title of video on your right)
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071121/taser_kennedy_071121/20071121?hub=Canada
MP=Congress Persons - all Ministers are MPs
Jacob Freeze says: And I'll keep responding just as long as other commenters keep making excuses for Klein's wretched exploitation of the death of that sad and confused person.
Concede that Robert Dziekanski is used as a prototype, but must stress that there are many Robert Dziekanskis and that Naomi Klein's goal is to wake up people to the pattern to insure that there are fewer of them in the future.
Note that you don't get every single Naomi Klein article - that they come out first in Canada and only if the contents are deemed relevant to an American audience do you get to read them. Of course Naomi Klein is going to comment on topical things - she has to put out an article every week - and especially on topics that she feels prudent to keep in the news. You don't have an article by Linda McQuaig this week because she is writing about the Mulroney-Schreiber affair - which might implicate both the Conservatives and Liberals - but probably not that many high profile Americans.
Also note, as you look at the interactive map, that Libby Davies mentions two people in her riding that were tasered. I am not from BC so I don't know if she is talking about the two taser deaths in BC or just two incidents in a year where there were two deaths.
Riding=Voting District (please adopt the term since it makes typing easier).
Robert Dziekanski's death, whether by kneeling, taser, quitting smoking cold turkey or all of the above, has captured peoples imagination in Canada moreso than any of the other taser deaths because Canada was embarrassed internationally over the incident. Robert Dziekanski's mother wants to get at the bottom over what has happened to her son, which means that it serves her interest to have it kept into the spot light for as long as possible - which means making Robert the poster boy. It is if this story fades from the spot-light that you are most apt to get a cover-up and that being the end of it. That is how things work in Canada. If you don't believe me, you haven't spent over 20 years hearing about the bombing of Air India.
Jacob Freeze says: Several commenters expressed surprise that I would criticize Ms. Klein even though I admire her book, and this is the most ridiculous aspect of this whole simple-minded thread of discussion.
I am just surprised at what you are criticizing (maybe it is just cultural differences but that is how things are done here). It is like criticizing the Leaders of the Opposition parties for asking questions during Question Period! And I do figure that you are getting Robert Dziekanski mixed up with the guy from Chilliwack. CTV says of the guy from Chilliwack: "CTV British Columbia has learned from sources that the man's organs are failing and that he has been put on kidney dialysis." At least this is not the United States where his family would have been forced to pick up the tab for his stay in Hospital! And there is no evidence that this guy spoke any language other than English - though I can't say for sure.
Re: siamdave link
You are missing the point, siamdave - Canada doesn't have to be the greatest country in the world - we just have to be better than the United States to feel good about ourselves! :slightly evil All the shock I have been reading about what is going on in Canada from Americans has the same underlying message - "I thought Canada was better than that but they are just as wretched as we are" - to which I have only one response - I did not vote for Harper - I voted NDP - therefore, I can still hold my head high.
Honest John says: That the poor disoriented man was tasered and killed is horrible and I have read so much about it.
Which of the many taser deaths in the US have you read the most about? Check the above link - Taser is selling their products to Americans for domestic use - Americans are holding Taser parties. If there are no witnesses, whose to say that those good ol' boys in Texas actually had a taser party involving a rubby or a Mexican or whether the poor soul just had a heart attack and died alone? You get a bunch of Texas boys still living at home because the jobs pay so little - they got lots and lots of frustration to vent - and they are just looking for an innocent bistander to vent it on.
Honest John says: A sadist would WANT to use the equipment…..are taser operators vetted for this abnormality???
I think that one is before one gets one's badge, but this "abnormality" can develop over time with job stress.
In the US they are thinking of selling Tasers to average folk who do not need to be screened for this abnormality before purchasing one. And during a domestic dispute, when tempers are flaring, one tends to underestimate the harm one is causing the other person any way.
Do you know that increases in farm fortclosures and increases in unemployment are both positively correlated with domestic violence? The Shock Doctrine version of the ancient Boss kicks worker, worker kicks wife, wife kicks son, son kicks dog.
macneil,
"Such a childish assessment is indicative of a diversionist strategy employed by the corporate governments to hide the true nature of the change behind a propagandistic story that will seem plausible to those people who do not know enough about the situation in order for them to make a valued appraisal."
Huh? What does this mean? We've got some serious issues here with cogent thinking...
Freeze,
Have you considered that Americans have been fed a steady diet of fear for quite some time now, particularly in the last 6 years? When it's done effectively it's a powerful method of social control. Those who are in the grip of fear are, of course, going to turn to those figures who they think will protect them. Like the police. Or the federal government.
Now, this doesn't mean I'm advocating disrespecting all police officers. But I think it's the duty of progressives to puncture and discredit this obvious form of social control. Fearful people are willing to sacrifice their liberties, and this overly empowers those they cede their power to, like the police or federal government. And as we all know, power corrupts. How many stories about police brutality do we here about, year after year?
A clear thinking, non-fearful citizenry will provide the necessary checks and balances to keep those who are charged to protect and serve them from becoming oppressive. This is an agenda I think most Americans would agree with. But we have to reframe the debate.
And that's what I think Naomi has done BRILLIANTLY in her new book.
Well, the back bacon & Molsons would have killed him eventually anyways...the cops just sped up the process.
"Mr. Dziekanski was not killed by a "shock." He was killed with a club, as anyone who bothers to watch the video at http://youtube.com/watch?v=qHKk5qQRzL4 can plainly see, about seven minutes into the 8 minute video."
That's interesting, because I also heard that one of the officers had his knee on the man's neck, which may have strangled him or cut off blood flow to his brain. Or, he may have died of a heart attack.
Point is, no one knows what exactly killed the man other than too much force.
Be that as it may, Naomi Klein has a perfectly valid point and I applaud her for doing the background research. How many "news" stories uncovered any background into Mr. Dziekanski's life?
Without stories such as this one, we will never begin to connect the dots.
"This is not a judgement—just a heads up. We really need to stop looking outside ourselves for the solutions, and we sure as hell need to look deeply within to see our own contribuition to the problems at hand."
You rock too, starofthesea!
Happy Harvest Day, everyone.
Bitching about the police is just another brilliant way for the Left to lose elections.
If you check the polls, you may notice that 4 times more Americans trust the police than trust Congress. More Americans trust the police than trust religion.
So instead of concentrating on the few psycho officers who actually kill people like Mr. Dziekanski, we get ridiculous blanket condemnations of the police in general. What a brilliant way to alienate the majority of voters in every election!
And it's especially brilliant to attack police in Canada, of all places, and especially for tasers, which kill about 4 people per year in Canada, according to Amnesty International. A grand total of 15 people from 2003 to 2007! As a cause of death it's right up there with lightening strikes and insect bites!
So let's alienate the vast majority of voters who trust the police by bitching about a few freakish psycho episodes, and allow the Right to use this ridiculous anti-police rhetoric to discredit social programs that would save tens of thousands of lives every year!
After all, most people agree with the progressive social agenda, and we have to be really creative to lose elections when almost all the issues favor the Left!
Ms. Klein's hypothesis is ridiculous, as a previous poster has noted.
1) "First comes the shock of a national crisis, making countries desperate for any cure and willing to sacrifice democracy in the process. In Poland in 1989, that first shock was the sudden end of communism and the economic meltdown..."
2) "Then comes the economic shock therapy, the undemocratic process pushed through in the window of crisis that jolts an economy into growth but blasts so many people out of the picture."
3) "...there is the third shock, the one that disciplines and deals with the discarded people..."
Such a childish assessment is indicative of a diversionist strategy employed by the corporate governments to hide the true nature of the change behind a propagandistic story that will seem plausible to those people who do not know enough about the situation in order for them to make a valued appraisal. There was only one thing that happened in the former socialist countries and that is that they were sabotaged by the U.S. and the "West" during their "cold war" and the privatizing was nothing more than the sharing of the spoils. When Ms. Klein presents the whole wretched transition as some sort of natural evolution of societies she is either displaying an incredible stupidity or she is working an imperialistic agenda.
The tasers used by the corporate government's police forces are supposed to have exactly the effect that they are having, which is to spread terror and fear among the general population. The corporate governments will always be trying to keep the general populations in a state of stress, because that is how they control them, and they usually have several projects operating at once. It can be pepper spray, which was their best fear inducer before the tasers, or it can be the war on harmless drugs like marijuana, or it can be terrifying the parent population with "child pornography" and all of it's linkages. If the government was truly interested in creating a relatively safe society then that could be easily done within a few short years by initiating the proper programs, but their solution is always to put more police on the street, because that increases their standing army, and to never deal realistically with the solveable problems.
It is obvious that Jacob Freeze is just trying to "pick a fight" or he is simply cranky with Naomi Klein for some reason.
Naomi obviously sees some connection between what she has written and an incident that occurred in a Canadian airport.
I have read her book as most likely have many of the readers of Common Dreams.
Is she plugging her book? Maybe. But why shouldn't she? Good on her! I definitely plug her book every chance I get. If more people read it maybe more people would be aware of what is really happening around the world right under their noses.
Other than that, I am not going to respond to your pathetic attempt at "trolling" this comment board.
Tasers in North America have become a weapon of social control.
Tasers are normally less lethal than guns and are loved by police forces because they can disable a victim from a distance without any risk to themselves. Intended to largely replace guns, a tool of last resort, they have now migrated to a tool of first resort. This is because Tasers are so easy to use and in most cases leave no lasting effect but they can cause lasting back problems due to muscle spasms and they are associated with death in individuals who are suffering heart problems or what is called, non-medically, "excited delirium". Death is then blamed on this condition, even though it is not recognized by the American Medical Association because to prove otherwise is currently impossible. Proof is lacking but correlation between Tasers and hundreds of dead is however available in spades.
Tasers are not non-lethal, they are just less lethal and they are now used routinely as punishment both in jails and on the street. Tasers have really become the equivalent of the electronic whip, a whip that can be fatal.
.com
I'm pleasantly surprised that they even published Klein's essay in the LA Times, a paper which has loaded up with neo-cons and right-wing pundits of late.
One reader takes issue with Naomi Klein's depiction of economic conditions in Poland. The commentator says:
"What undermines this article's credibility by 100% is the claim that these kind of situations (Poles seeking refuge from the horror of life in Poland) arise from 40% unemployment in Poland. Unemployment in Poland is just over 10% at the latest count."
First, the commentator, who seems offended by her comments on Poland's economy, fails to notice that when Klein cites 40% unemployment she writes:
"Today, roughly 40% of young Polish workers are unemployed."
So Klein is addressing a specific segment of the Polish labor force.
It should also be remembered that when large numbers of people give up looking for work, they are no longer counted as "unemployed."
This is a technique used in the U.S. to keep unemployment numbers artificially low as well. Also, they typically ignore underemployed people who cannot find full employment.
http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_detail.cfm?IndicatorID=88&Country=PL
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=353&objectid=10463646
Medical experts on Canadian radio (CBC) have said it's probable that the cop kneeling on his neck killed the poor guy. However, most people seem to agree that the tasering didn't help, doesn't help and should probably be stopped, cops being a little too trigger happy with it. (sound familiar?) Freeze, I think you're alienating those who might agree with you by frothing too hard at the mouth and getting all pissed about something that doesn't matter that much. Naomi's doing what she can to make a difference. Maybe you should just try self-publishing...
Mr. Freeze,
I watched the video and it does look like he is being clubbed at the 7ish minute mark, but if you look closely the officer is actually collapsing his baton(its a telescoping one). It even mentions this directly to the right of the video on the "About this Video" section. I had to watch it a couple times to be sure.
Since no one here has mentioned it yet: Shouldn't we outlaw Tasers simply on the basis that hundreds of thousands of people have undetected heart arrhythmias that could kick in and kill them if they're electrically shocked? There MUST be a better way.
Why are we surprised about the tasering incident? Most security officers watched our "shock and awe" attack which killed unknown numbers of innocents. Then we were treated to the cruel handling of people, guilty or not, at Abu Graib and Gitmo, where many escaped prosecution for their crimes. Now we are witnessing thousands of people that formerly were in favor of abiding by international rules on treatment of prisoners trying to convince themselves that torture is right and necessary because a few deluded "leaders" say so. Life is great now if you are rich and powerful, not so good if you are poor or homeless or caught acting "suspicious".
The fact of the matter is the RCMP are hiring just about anybody that applys these days.If you have the requisite education you could find yourself in and out of the academy in 6 months.And then you are often forced to patrol alone.We have had several officers from the RCMP killed in the past few years.When i was growing up it was rare to ever hear of a police involved shooting let alone the death of an officer.The call probaly went out to the officers that the man was throwing things around in the airport.And acting irrational.His neighbours in Poland report that he gave away the last few packs of cigarettes before leaving.Planning on started his new life in Canada a non-smoker he was trying to quit cold turkey.Ive quit drinking that way and it wasnt pleasant.Ive been told the withdrawl from tobacco is far worse.Not an excuse for his actions but perhaps an explanation for them.Also im not sure if the ages of the officers involved have been released or not or their time with the force but officer inexperience must also be looked at.And when the tasers were introduced they were to be ONLY in instances when an officer would be forced to shoot otherwise.Now it looks like its being used as an easy way for some people to get out of a situation whereas they may face a physical confrontation.We as a society must let it be known NOW that we dont want to see these things used on those who may wish to protest in more vocal fashion.We already have undercover provincial police in Quebec dressing up as violent rock throwing demonstraters as to intice their breathern into attacking the peaceful protesters.We need to express our views en masse now.Or the scenes we saw from the streets of Burma will be making an apperance near you soon.
STAROFTHESEA
Great idea to focus on what is connecting us, instead of separating us - maybe even attempting to *_dream_* together on *_common_* things?
Mr. Freeze thank you for pointing it out . Yes, my countryman was clubbed to death. At first I thought it was a recharge procedure. I have not read the book so I have no other comments. Mr. Risky thank you as well for standing the polish ground.
But tomorrow is a Thanksgiving day, and I ask myself how am I going to say "God bless you". I tell you, I am not going to say it because I feel that its meaning was stolen. To tell you the truth, lately I avoid saying "How are you" because I feel that its meaning was stolen as well. I think that this is what people mean when they say that America has lost its high moral ground and brutality has moved instead.
That the poor disoriented man was tasered and killed is horrible and I have read so much about it. Yet nobody has mentioned that the taser metes out excruciating pain. 7% of the population have sadistic tendencies. Any person authorised to use one had better be NORMAL. A sadist would WANT to use the equipment.....are taser operators vetted for this abnormality???
- what Naomi does have right is that this is very related to capitalism and the 'new world order'. A very interesting book online about what this is all about is They're Building a Box - and You're In It - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html .
After reading several posts on this thread, I began to notice a pattern as some people jumped all over each other in what, for the most part, turned out to be simple misunderstanding,for which they later apologized.
I was struck by the similarities to the story of the RMC's reflexive shoot first ask questions later approach Assumptions were made and actions taken without talking first (seek translator)to try to understand his strange (threatening?) behavior.
Mirrors, folks---talk about creating our own reality. All we have to do is start discussing misunderstanding and its resulting violence, and it immediately manifests on the thread.
This is not a judgement---just a heads up. We really need to stop looking outside ourselves for the solutions, and we sure as hell need to look deeply within to see our own contribuition to the problems at hand.
This thread was incredibly instructive on so many levels, if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.
It's one thing for Ms. Klein's byline to mention that she wrote a book called The Shock Doctrine, and something else again for her to distort the whole story just to bring her book into the headline.
Mr. Dziekanski was not killed by a "shock." He was killed with a club, as anyone who bothers to watch the video at http://youtube.com/watch?v=qHKk5qQRzL4 can plainly see, about seven minutes into the 8 minute video.
I didn't call it "pimping" because the story includes a link to her book. I call it "pimping" because she was willing to distort the truth to promote her book into a headline.
Several commenters expressed surprise that I would criticize Ms. Klein even though I admire her book, and this is the most ridiculous aspect of this whole simple-minded thread of discussion. Am I supposed to give the jerk Naomi Klein a free pass to insult the memory a very unfortunate person by twisting the facts of his death into whatever shape will propel her book into yet another headline?
No way!
And I'll keep responding just as long as other commenters keep making excuses for Klein's wretched exploitation of the death of that sad and confused person.
"Pimping" doesn't have any meaning? What are words worth? Why not give Ms. Klein at least the respect that is due to anyone who has the intelligence and education to be able to develop a rational and thorough thesis, even if you don't want to agree with it?
Drift, found another Naomi Klein interview on CTV's Canada AM:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070903/Naomi_Klein_070903/20070904/
During a Minority Government, the Party in Power still has more seats than any other party. HOWEVER, the combined Opposition parties have more seats than do the Government. If the three Opposition parties decide to cooperate, they can actually pass legislation that the Party in Power does not want passed.
Foreign Affairs committee to study Canadian investment in Sudan
OTTAWA – Despite opposition from Conservatives, the Foreign Affairs committee adopted the NDP motion to undertake a study of Canadian funds invested in Sudan and explore legislative initiatives to regulate such investments in light of the worsening crisis in the Darfur region of Sudan.
http://www.ndp.ca/page/5913
That is the big difference between your system and our system.
There are more and more displaced people everyday. Desperate people have nothing to lose so it really doesn't matter. Only unsafe if you cannot afford a gated community.
"Why would anyone think she's just pimping her book when she makes a connection based on nothing but word-play between her macro-economic thesis and a tasering incident in Vancouver?"
Mr. Freeze,
And you're not pimping yourself by picking a fight while displaying your own link to your business/avocation?
C'mon, Man, we're here as friends.
As for Naomi Klein's point, it's valid. Her point is that there is a reason this poor man was in Canada in the first place. His life was turned upside down by privatization and his subsequent immigration and death were a result. Happens many times over in the U.S.
Rock on, Naomi!
Yeah, I'm Canadian so don't ask me to spell Dennis Kucinich correctly. If Kucinich was Canadian, he would probably be voting for the NDP. The Manitoba Hansard has a better write up about David Orlikow than the Ottawa Hansard:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/legislature/hansard/4th-36th/vol_071b/h071b_9.html
If you ever see the made for TV movie "The Sleep Room" produced by Anne Wheeler, there is also a clip of David Orlikow in Parliament in it.
Drift, maybe you should meet Naomi's husband - Avi Lewis (if you like him, you won't feel so much like cutting his grass :evil ). Note that the person who interviewed Naomi Klein (George Stroumboulopoulos) used to work with Avi Lewis at Much Music before they both got shows on the CBC and has also interviewed Naomi's father-in-law - Stephen Lewis. Avi Lewis in action:
http://www.cbc.ca/onthemap/fullpage.php?id=119
Tony, of course she's pimping her book - all authors do - it is whether she is pimping it for the money or pimping it because she feels that it has something important to say - which is the point. That whole criticism is not worth losing sleep over.
Take care all of you! And note that anyone who has ever been tasered, I think, wants to be part of this inquiry.
Dear Vaudree, Thanks for the video clip above, Ms. Klein is quite able to defend her thesis publicly and for that all progressives should be happy. Others, could you give us a break with depressing, moronic crap like, "pimping her book"?
vaudree,
Thanks for the link, I just watched it. I LOVE this woman. If we weren't both already married.... But I'm dreaming now.
Sorry, didn't catch that stuff about Ewen C. I guess you're Canadian? I admit my share of American ignorance about how your system works and who the players are. It's all I have time for keeping up with the f-ing neocons down here. Do you have an article about this you can link for me?
Freeze,
Look, I'm going to rest on this now, but I just don't see how Naomi is a jerk. I also find it peculiar that you think she is, yet agree with most of what she writes.
Anyway, here's my obligatory plug: Don't like Disaster Capitalism? ...so called Free Trade? ...want out of NAFTA, the WTO, and Iraq? Want real universal health care? Want Cheney impeached?
Go to http://www.dennis4president.com
Give generously.
NAOMI - thank you.
I now see so many multilayered shocks impinging on all of us, and especially see what goes for an individual's torture (or the denial of "it") is prototypical of cultural (and multi-national) shock doctrine.
For ~ 20 years, many of the local police (& sheriffs) have been re-training as "shock troops", in how they confront, intimidate, and maintain an upper hand for any encounter with the public, as if we are all assumed to be armed terrorists, or drug dealers - or in my case years ago - a "cult member" (as my buddy and I were both long haired and bearded).
The time for interactions with dignity, decency, understanding, tolerance, appreciation of differences, ... has (too me) blizzarly vanished. OK, I grant that many public servants (out in the public) do have reasonable fears (for their lives), when there is so much violence everywhere.
Tasers aside, we all deserve to be treated humanely, even if some red flag gets raised. It's like assuming all those "slow/dumb" drivers out there are really one's own mother, grey hair and always trying to do their best.
There's a bit of math that goes along with this, we now seem to force (shock, as we're not equal, by a long shot) the recipients to carry >90% of the communications burden, whereas civil societies (of equals) have each side generously putting forth 60-70% -- so that there's lots of overlap and understanding (to stand under) kind of like a shock absorber -- to ensure human connection is made, and communication can progress.
Stun me, I'm an idealist, but could we at least get back to a 51/51 deal?
Namaste
drift, saw that film already a few times.
One of Ewen Cameron's victims was the wife of a local MLA before he was a local MP. This is one of the reasons I keep bringing up the family that Naomi Klein married into in relation to this book - David Lewis and Ed Broadbent were leaders of the NDP when David Orlikow was an NDP MP (before that he was an NDP MLA which is the Provincial version of an MP). It is because of the NDP that we know as much as we do about Ewen Cameron and the role of the CIA.
MP=Congressperson
Did you see Naomi Klein on The Hour yet?
http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1667
Jacob Freeze, I know that. I am just saying click on the other video. I watched them both.
annemarie j, you are looking at it as an isolated incident rather than a brick in a bigger picture of events. It is not just about punishing these cops but about preventing future results. And, for Naomi, it is not just about the safety tasers or police brutality but the brutality of Corporatism.
What were the names of those people who broke machines during the industrial revolution because they felt the machines were destroying their livelihoods during the Industrial Revolution in England? I assure you that there became stronger laws to protect machines than humans during that time period.
It is the same pattern happening here - or starting to happen.
Poland is a great country with proud people who have suffered for centuries from the curse of having no real natural borders to help protect her from predators. The Germans, Russians and then the Soviets have carved up the country many times. The fall of communism and, more importantly, the end of Soviet occupation is not something the average Polish citizen looks at with sadness as Ms Klein seems inclined to- ah it's tough for some to get over the romance of the glorious worker's paradise. That is as long as they didn't have to live there!
Regrettably our Idiot in Chief has decimated the image of our country abroad-still the Polish people have the highest favorable view of the US of any country in Europe (61%- Pew Research). They do not as a whole seem to agree with Ms Klein about her Shock Catastrophe.
While I have traveled there twice I don't know it as well as the other poor Shocked country that she mentions: China. I work and travel there often and can tell you in no uncertain terms that if Shock Therapy is what she calls what has happened there in the last decade- Baby they will tell you just keep shocking them.
I admit that I have read only parts of her book, and I only Minored in Economics but I have to say that while it does make some good points on bad and sometimes catastrophic policies, the economic/geostrategic part seems beyond strained. It is true that the US and other OECD countries along with the IMF and WB have mauled struggling nations by trying to implement theoretical models before the necessary foundation is laid. Like Democracy itself, regulated free markets will only work in conjunction with the rule of law and protections constitutionally guaranteed.
A good friend of mine did major in Economics and went on to get her PHD at Stanford University in International Economics. She teaches at an Elite East Coast University and has always been liberal with a capital L. I asked her what she thought of the book as an economic study and she gave me a one work answer- GIBBERISH.
The video linked in my comment is titled "Vancouver Airport Taser Killing of Dziekanski by Police." Here it is again: http://youtube.com/watch?v=qHKk5qQRzL4
It's a response to the Chilliwack incident, which also didn't have everybody looking for someone who spoke Russian. It isn't a very useful language in Chilliwack.
As for Naomi Klein...
Why would anyone think she's just pimping her book when she makes a connection based on nothing but word-play between her macro-economic thesis and a tasering incident in Vancouver? If you can see any other connection besides a burning desire to put some variant of "shock" in a headline in the LA Times, please explain it to me.
I happen to agree with Ms. Klein's book, as well as I can understand it, but I also think she's a real jerk!
Klein is pimping her new book and that's why she's seizing upon this particular incident to correlate it to her 'shock doctrine'. It and she are beyond sleazy. Have to agree with JacobFreeze about this point.
For those enamoured of Klein's latest book, take a peek at this review of it. Ask yourself, as this reviewer does, why Klein treats 9/11 so differently from all the other 'instigating' events which she discusses. Curious isn't it.
http://www.bestcyrano.org/THOMASPAINE/?p=429#comment-7815
====================
The cops who tasered and jumped that man, causing his death, should all be charged with manslaughter or murder, and part of their rehabilitation should be that they themselves get tasered.
It's no exaggeration that some pigs become cops. That's why some (many?) cops are pigs. Some others are decent human beings who become decent police officers. Who, in their right mind, could argue with those facts?
Tasering is a disturbingly perfect symbol of ever diminishing "normal" society's (now amounting to ca 10 % of global population) clean and soft killings. Noiseless and invisible to "normalcy".
(Those 30.000 dying of malnutrition every day - why don't they stop doing that? I'm sure that gang is doing it over and over again every day mostly to annoy us normal people. They have no taste, dying on our screens like that, now that Christmas is coming on and everything and all we real people wish for is something nice and pretty...)
Adapting to the capitalism's growth-blinded ruthlessnesses paving over people and our natural needs for stability rather than growth, is like a jew in a Hitler-gasschamber crying out: "I give in - I'll be good now and cooperate, I promise!"
If my above link doesn't take you directly to the video on youtube, type in "shock doctrine" in the search area, and it'll be the first one that pops up.
Jacob Freeze, right under the youtube video you linked us to is the caption:
This is a video response to Man Tasered, Sprayed & Beaten by Chilliwack RCMP
Click on it. You keep referring to the Chilliwack incident.
Ah, how we progressives so enjoy eating our own...