It is really not all that difficult to play a fool for a fool.

"Most Pakistanis see the [Taliban] as America's enemy, not their own. The Taliban is perceived as the only group standing up against the unwelcome American presence in the region."

How right they are! Therein lies the problem for Musharraf, just as it does for U.S. 'allies' almost everywhere in the world.

Regimes supported by the U.S., and at least nominally supportive of U.S. interests in turn, are incresingly unpopular with their own people. And unfortunately, as seen from the U.S. perspective, not all of the world's citizenry is as docile and compliant as its own. Nor have all the 'allied' regimes fully mastered the techniques for keeping them blind and obedient to the sponsors of the systems (fake democracy, etc.) put in place for suppression purposes.

It truly is a dilemma. Even the 'cowardly' French show occasional tendencies to take their displeasure to the streets. Thank heavens for American apathy.

Bush doesn't understand that Musharraf and his country don't have the imperial desire that drives our president and country. Musharraf only has to win domestically. He couldn't care less about Bush's war on terror. He doesn't want to be dictator of the world. He just wants to be president and in charge of the military in his country. He will enable Bush only as long as it serves his political interests. But by now Bush is getting used to being shit on by his coalition of the willing.
Hoa binh

When it comes to south asia and the middle east, both Republicans and Democrats can be counted on to continue the same wrong-headed policies, claiming they are in our national interest.

Goes to show you that all that macho bluster shrivels when there is the shadow of nuclear capacity in the mix.
Can you blame the countries of the world on the US hit list for wanting to defend themselves through the threat of mutually assured destruction?
It is the only approach that cows the US--and tough boy acts like Hillary Clinton looking to triangulate on pumped up war nationalism--exposed as Right-wing hype and bluster, are looking like fools as well.

Pakistan has nukes. It can do whatever he pleases.

old news: US totally perplexed on how to handle the continuing Pakistan/India violent divorce. They now fight over Afghanistan.

US relied on Indian aligned Northern Alliance to combat Pakistan allied Pashtun /Taliban in Afghanistan.

Musharraf needs the taliban/pushtons in his fight against the Indian aligned Afganistan

Well, talk about stating the obvious. As Ken Patrick notes, it's not hard to play a fool for a fool. We will stick to Musharraf to the bitter end because we are shipping supplies to our troops in Afghanistan through Pakistan. Bush having to pretend he likes Musharraf is just another case of the US trying to maintain its agenda in spite of the rest of the planet. If we were to pull out of Afghanistan (now why are we there, someone remind me????) the whole Musharraf issue would be dealt with in a completely diffrent way.

ncycat -- "now why are we there, someone remind me????"

Something to do with women's outer garments, I believe. Or perhaps it was GWB's passion for ensuring that little boys and girls can attend the same classrooms -- no child left behind and all that.

I also vaguely recall something about some guy named Osama living there, but that seems to have faded almost entirely.

Smells like Cheney.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0809-24.htm

What was it that our puerile president said?
"I can't get fooled again" as I recall.

Damn right! Nobody is going to trick George into preserving and protecting the Constitution of the United States or it's treasury.

*LOL* Poor Georgie unarmed again in a game for fools

And then it comes to light that the NYT has been hiding the US support for Pak nukes for years at Georgies request.

The headline is redundant.

Does anyone else hear music coming from the fiddle?

And it's not only Musharraf. Repeatedly, Putin has made a fool of bush. Chavez makes a fool of bush every opportunity he has, and succeeds. And don't forget Cheney, he has been making a fool of bush since January 2001.

Bush' only gripe with this situation is that he wished he could fire the Supreme Court judges (at least the 5 "liberals"), that he could institute martial law, in other words, that he could be an unchecked dictator.

Gee Marjorie, you say "American citizens whose tax dollars are being used to prop up this ruthless and corrupt regime should demand an accounting of how their money is being spent." I say, just exactly how do we demand this accounting? Say please? I'd like to know how we've gone through 2 trillion dollars trying to secure 6 city blocks of Bhagdad, unsuccessfully I might add.

And then you go on to say, "If Congress stands by and does nothing to cut off the funds to Musharraf while he maintains martial law in Pakistan, it will confirm our worst fears that Democrats and Republicans alike are making a sham of our democracy."

I for one, do not need any further confirmation of this. In fact I'd think that as the President of the Lawyers Guild you'd have come to that conclusion when you learned that Habeus Corpus, the Geneva Convention, the Constitution and the rule of law in general were all things of the past. Is it that torture and spying aren't vivid enough clues to the sham-fullness of this oligarchy? This is way beyond how they steal our treasury...
peace, err, how about peas? whirlled peas.

marctileston, how to hold the US government to account? The approach favored by the children is to stop sending the taxes to Washington.

As the pyramid of power held by elites continues to consolidate against centuries of protest, revolution, public education programs, media exposure, and peaceful reform experienced by large population pools across the globe, it will resort to selling weapons and surveillance technologies. In spite of these diabolical strategies, the tiny percentage that wields so much power and now owns politicians and directs policy worldwide cannot ultimately hold back the tide of human passion, purpose and possibility. The pursuit of happiness and its attendant freedoms are inscribed into every human soul. DARK powers have sought to turn back the tide on evolution and the whole scenario reminds me of a 21st century depiction of Moses leading the slaves out of Egypt. The corporations ARE the new pharaohs... but the masses will break down the walls, burst the chains, and eventually witness a NEW day. Earth mother's hot flashes (a/k/a global warming), fiscal uncertainty, certain wars will be the painful side of this Transition. It is inevitable. I wish it would be smooth... but the writing is everywhere on the wall, and any 3rd rate astrologer sees why and how the current authoritarian trends (and those technologies that abet the surveilled society) will gain tread. HUGE conflicts between justice and oppression, the rights of the individual against the provisions of the (fear) state will reel like angry seas, causing waves that reverberate in a great many lands. Seems like S. America already went through its dictator phase and is rediscovering a new kind of liberty that understands how a society benefits when all its members have a chance to eat, breathe and secure shelter/education/medical. OURs is becoming the gated, walled off community paradigm, with police/guards/Blackwater standing watch to keep out the multitudes.

i agree with marctileston. how does one account for a couple trillion dollars?
I visualize a funnel taking wealth out of middle class american families and
making the superrich a bit more wealthy. Like they need more money. Like a
drug addict needs another hit. And with an addict's logic, the consequences
are inconsequential. And this is why we have corporate non-liability. Their only
responsibility is to return a profit for their investors. Don't you all think maybe we
need to rethink corporate law????

But why, when only poor people will be affected by the decisions of the rich and elite.
For instance, poor people will be hit hardest by the coming global warming. They just
can't afford the price of staying cool and will just have to die. Cost of doing business on
the planet.

But global politics never pays much attention to the world's poor. The big boys are
too busy hypnotizing the poor, thru marketing strategy, to vote against their own personal,
in the now interests.

How brilliant. The brains behind the Bush are brilliant while being totally devoid of wisdom. Their
naieveté is evident in how they let smaller minds, like mucharaf's, manipulate them.
And this is why the usa is probably in a state of rapid decline, like all empires before it.
Too many of it's citizens think they're privileged and immune from what happens in the
rest of the world. Our denial is probably due to the fact that we have never lived under
fascist or totalitarian rule. Maybe the country needs this experience for it to grow up.

It's not always simple. The real reason for the crackdown is to defend the country against "Islamic extremists," AND to maintain Musharraf in power. The latter is easy as we've seen in the capital. The former I hope is do-able, but I'm not hopeful after reading Time's latest article: Pakistan's Taliban at the Gates.

Musharraf may be a sonuvabitch, but he is ours. Ditching him and getting Bhutto may be wishful thinking.. you may end up with Sharia Law + Nukes. Bush's fault? Yeah. But THEN what?

marctiles--"I'd like to know how we've gone through 2 trillion dollars trying to secure 6 city blocks of Bhagdad"

Ha !! One day ... some brave reporter will probably stand up and ask this question ... till then we will have to put up with the media whores and shut up i guess !!

locke--"Musharraf may be a sonuvabitch, but he is ours."
Sorry ... this reagan era thinking is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place !!

Siouxrose----How to energize an alternative "story" at this late date seems nearly impossible. But I have to say, I do not like the story, so many have created. If your take is true, and it sure seems to be the case looking around, I wonder if it is still possible to energize a different story this time around. Surely there are more people awake on the planet today---hell there are MORE people period.

Is it truly inevitable that the "few" who would extinguish the Light, will manage to wreck so much mayhem in the march forward? Is it possible that we are instead, witnessing the last foul breaths of the Beast? In all the myths, does not the giant, the monster or the dragon get slain? There are always tests, of course, before that can happen, and perhaps that is what you are describing. But maybe this time, instead of a single pure-of-heart hero, there will be legions of the human family joining together, acknowledging ONE-ness, in order to "slay the Beast". We are the ones we have been waiting for. I ask this simple question to all, "How would you have it?"

I beg to differ with those that portray GW as a fool. During the first election (political coup) he all but moved into the Whitehouse before the election was certified. He won by the narrowest of margins but runs the Government as he had won the election by 99% of the electorate. If he doesnt like legislation he has to sign he just writes a little note saying he wont abide by the law and doesnt-no one challenges him. Bush is able to declare the V.P. is protected by Executive privilege and by golly Dick's papers and emails become protected by Executive privilege.
I don't know what your definitions are of "a fool" but one who is able to get what he wants and at every turn out-foxes his adversaries is not a fool.
If if he wants to attack Iran-He will.

You guys have got to start learning about international "Real Politiks". Nobody is making fool out of nobody. They are all simply using one another.

Bush had arm-twisted and bullied Musharraf into joining the "Coalition of the Willing", albeit with a carrot thrown in for the bargain.

If Messrs. Hoodbhoy and Adien Levy is right about Musharraf's agenda of destabilizing Afghanistan for the benefits of Pakistan or for personal interests, it only goes to show that he is seeing the tide turning against the Americans in that part of the world and feels confident enough to show some independence of action.

This also give proofs to the speculation that the entrance of Pakistanis celebrities at this juncture, Messrs. Benazir Bhutto and Imran Khan (Stage Left) onto the stage is nothing more than Bush playing his second card against a "naughty" Musharraf in the continuing game of international blackmailing of so called "allies" of the US.

Watch out for Bush's next arm-twisting "Reality Show". It could be the Japanese for the next round.

Aim I right that for some of us here the real crime of the Bush Administration is that he FAILED to deliver to his voters what he promised, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE HAD PROMISED?

* skipping along with starofthesea and the legions *

"I don't know what your definitions are of "a fool" but one who is able to get what he wants and at every turn out-foxes his adversaries is not a fool."

I completely agree with this assessment. The real fools are the 50% who voted him in and the other 49.99999999% who just gawked, shook their heads and continued watering their backyards.

rtdrury said; "how to hold the US government to account? The approach favored by the children is to stop sending the taxes to Washington.

I fully agree rt, I've been screaming this for years, so much that I've begun to lose my voice, but I'll add, yet again, that we need to also withhold our funds from the corporations that are behind the wholesale auctioning of our rights, laws, and freedoms.

We must refuse to do business with corporations who already have too much wealth to bother with observing laws or honoring life or giving a shit. I suppose for some it can be a difficult task of identifying those entities. So as a rule of thumb, I recommend we don't do business with any company with a logo. Buy less, buy local, use less, live simpler, starve the beast. It has been suggested on this site recently, that we will all be forced to do this sooner or later, so why not do it voluntarily...voluntary simplicity, for the sake of, well everything.

ezeflyer November 20th, 2007 1:07 pm -- "Pakistan has nukes. It can do whatever he pleases."

Maybe. Maybe not.

FWIW, a recent report by the Times of India quotes the intelligence journal Stratfor as follows:

"The United States delivered a very clear ultimatum to Musharraf in the wake of 9/11: Unless Pakistan allowed US forces to take control of Pakistani nuclear facilities, the United States would be left with no choice but to destroy those facilities, possibly with India's help."

"This was a fait accompli that Musharraf, for credibility reasons, had every reason to cover up and pretend never happened, and Washington was fully willing to keep things quiet."

Maybe Bu$h the inferior looked into Mushy the dictator's soul. It has work so well with Putin.

bush knew what he was. It's our policy to get in bed with any dictator that will do our bidding, or is the enemy of our enemy. There's a long list of friendly dictators we support.
But regardless of all that...bush was a fool, is a fool, and will always be a fool. Don't take much to fool him.

Whatever the Super-Powers do is always a part of their global agenda.
Being an Islamic country, American policies with regard to Pakistan have to fit into the American Middle East policy.
However being a South Asian country, Pakistan has also to be looked at in the Regional context where the American policy is to build up the Indian Power base to balance Chinese influence in this region.
In both the above two scenarios, a further wrinkle is Pakistan being a Nuclear Power is also in possession of very sophisticated Delivery Systems.
From the above Press Report when it is put in the context of all the noise coming out of Washington, a clear impression is created that for the first time American policy makers are not able to forecast as to which way Pakistan Army would lead the Country.
On the one hand New York Times is reporting that United States starting from 9/11is helping Pakistan Armed Forces to protect their Nuclear Assets. While on the other hand we see an increasing noise coming out from U.S Government Sources that they are seriously apprehensive of Pakistani Nuclear capability falling into the hands of Fundamentalists.
If I am responsible for protecting an Asset, how in all honesty I could be afraid of losing it. Unless of course I become a party to such loss.
When Pakistan lost its Eastern half, we lost a Platform from where Indian Eastern Board could have been threatened by Pakistan or its allies (China).
Similarly the biggest threat of Pakistani Nuclear capability is against Indian interests and India feels threatened by China in the North and Pakistan in the West.
In order to provide India a secure Western Flank, Pakistan should be made to lose its Nuclear capability. If that happens then India could be prepared to face off China with the fullest possible Defensive and Offensive focus.
One more confusing factor which I am not able to understand, is the noise American Policy Makers are making in favor of introducing Democracy solely for the purpose of countering the growing Fundamentalist influence in Pakistan.
Conventional wisdom tells us that you fight an idea with an idea and a force with force.
What we conveniently label as Fundamentalists, are in reality following a political agenda and have nothing to do with Religion as such. They do not use Preachers to convert others to their way of thinking, they instead use force.
On the other hand, Democracy is a concept, an attitude, and a way of life.
How could a Democratic concept go and fight Al-Qaeda and Taliban in the Baluchistan Mountains and in remote Swat valleys. In the event votes are cast in elections, whom do we think the tribesmen of the Pakistan's Western Border areas would vote for. Obviously they would cast their votes in favor of Taliban and Al-Qaeda nominees. This would legitimize what we are now considering as an incursion.
Duly elected Governments in very large parts of Baluchistan and in the Pakistan's Northern areas would then democratically ask Pakistan armed forces to please leave.
We do not have to have too much imagination to visualize the political break up of Pakistan.
We should always keep in mind how strong Indian influence is on the Afghan side of our International Border.
What United States Policy Makers are now doing is a long term strategy in the making and I seriously believe that they should not rock the Pakistani Political boat. Whatever the Americans decide to do should be done very gently and at-least over a period of one year. Right now the Americans should be content if:

• President Musharraf takes off his Uniform and is sworn in as a Civilian President.
• General Kiyani takes charge of Commander In Chief of Pakistan Armed Forces and takes time to organize the existing setup as per his wishes.
• General Elections in Pakistan are held as being planned and they remain as fair as possible.
• The Emergency is removed a week or ten days before the Election.

At this point in time we may get a realistic idea as to what Pakistani people really believe, which would eventually be of great help in clearing the mind of every Policy Maker.

What a silly column. Where does democracy enter into a dictatorship obtained by a coup? And, as far as that goes, anyone who talks of the corporate capitalist sytem as being a democracy is not intelligent or educated enough to comment on world affairs and they should invest some of their dollars in buying a dictionary and/or studying history (real history) to learn what a real democracy is so that the next time they feel obliged to comment on the subject they can at least express themselves coherently.

STAR OF THE SEA: I do believe a new paradigm will emerge. Tragically, it's my view that the choices made by leaders at the symbolic cusp/doorway into the new milliennium turned progress backwards. There are movements all over the world for change. There are good people working for social justice everywhere. They understand the ONENESS concept for which you give eloquent voice in this forum. That doesn't change the fact that a momentum has been created with respect to the rise of authoritarian regimes, the evisceration of the US dollar/economy, and the inevitable collapse of nature.

I believe the next 7-10 years will be fraught with enormous challenges for those that serve the light, for those that believe in social justice, for those who have transcended the barriers of race/creed/gender as well as religion/nationality and truly do visualize a world where diversity is celebrated and there is enough to go around. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that the ideals we cherish will have meaningful representation until 2020. The one exception being South America which seems to have matured through its dictator phase and now is truly moving into a more fair, egalitarian basis for evolving its societies. I speak Spanish and have considered moving there. I was also told that should nuclear weapons be utlized, the wind currents don't tend to move into the Southern hemisphere, i.e. less radiation exposure there.

msrtali--"Regional context where the American policy is to build up the Indian Power base to balance Chinese influence in this region."

While this may be true of some policy makers in the administration its not entirely true of the current state of affairs. The U.S./India love affair is more recent and based on economic need on either side, like China before that.
India and China have fought maybe one war in the last 5000 years. They are not conventional enemies. Indian foreign policy has been for the most part independant as can be seen by the repercussions of the failed nuclear deal in the Indian parliament (this may change as the Left parties are more amenable now). India and China, contrary to American folicy policy thinkers, are not really that severly influenced by U.S. needs. They hold a lot more leverage against us ($$$$).

---"One more confusing factor which I am not able to understand, is the noise American Policy Makers are making in favor of introducing Democracy solely for the purpose of countering the growing Fundamentalist influence in Pakistan."

Its just noise and its targeted to the Media. They are NOT interested in Democracy in the region but they should be. Its the only way out for the Pakistani people to have a semblance of a 'state' left, however flawed that concept is. Americans prefer to deal with dicktators like Mush. This recent noise is because Mush and Benazir are not getting along and U.S. plans of a combined power sharing deal has fallen through. They will recover and still make this faux deal workable.

The only thing that talks is money. Here is one way to make changes: wartaxboycott.org
Stop giving this corrupt system your money and put it where you believe it will benefit the most.

Mr. Macneil on November 21st, 2007 is wondering as to "where does Democracy enter into a dictatorship".
For that matter where does Democracy enter into any society?
I believe, to understand this, we should be clear in our mind as to what Modern-Day-Democracy is.
As I found, Democracy these days is understood more or less on the following lines:

Democracy: (de-mok-rah-see) noun, (Greek demos,"the people"; kratein, "to rule") a political system: in which the people of a country rule through any form of government they choose to establish. Source: Microsoft Encarta Online Encyclopedia 2001.

President Lincoln defined "democracy" as "government of, by and for the people",

At this point I would like to refer to U.S Presidential Election 2000.

George W. Bush Al Gore

Popular Vote 50,460,110 51,003,926

Percentage 47.9% 48.4%

I also remember the media reporting as follows:
December 14-21, 2000 Harris poll had asked "If everyone who tried to vote in Florida had their votes counted for the candidate who they thought they were voting for -- with no misleading ballots and infallible voting machines -- who do you think would have won the election, George W. Bush or Al Gore?". The results were 49% for Gore and 40% for Bush.
Inspite of the above popular vote and public opinion, George W Bush became the President.
America is a Democracy is'nt it.
Now it depends on we the people to make up our mind.