And out of the ashes the Pheonix arose. "Tail gunner" Joe Mccarthy will arrive and the senatorial hearings will begin.

"Siouxrose, are you a poster on Common Dreams, do you know a person who goes by the name of Ken"?

If I were a Democrat in Harman's district, I'd sure be glad I voted for her and not the Republican. Republicans are baaaaaaaad!

"An aura of authority will automatically accompany this congressionally authorized mandate to expose native terrorism."

Here come the Salem witch trials of the 21st century!

We had better enjoy using CD while we can to get an idea what real thinkers feel about our country, instead of just listening to the robots and their MSM. It seems there is no end to their constant drumbeat of fear and the moronic tactics they are prepared to use against our citizens freedoms. Too bad our congress just lays down and gets walked on every time someone says terrorism. After is too late to stop, most of them will begin to see, with their foggy minds, what they have done.

Wow, the Alien and Sedition Act of 2007 finally is here. The last piece of the Bill of Rights just went through the paper shredder!

Any criticism of this brilliant group of diplomats and legislators automatically places you on the watch list, lose your job, your house, your assets. Maybe this is how we'll pay for the 100 year war for corporate control of global resources.

404-6. Party doesn't matter. Mainstream media give it no critical coverage---they function as a palace press when they're not pimping for big corporations. Kucinich will speak about it. No other "liberal" presidential candidates will make a fuss about it.

Does the public care? Not much. Will there be protest? Sure, a few letters here and there. Not enough to make a substantive difference.

This is the country that committed genocide against millions of natives it displaced, imposed slavery on most of its blacks until 1865, imposed Jim Crow on its southern blacks until 1965, has committed more than 50 internationally illegal assaults on other countries in the last 110 years, leaves nearly 50 million of its residents without health care, and jails a higher proportion of its population than any other country on earth, democratic or not.

Mrs. Harman is in the US mainstream. Unfortunately the US mainstream is far right.

Another example showing that democrats and republicans are cut from the same cloth. Seems like we are headed towards fascism faster rate than even the Germans. On the positive side (if there is such a thing when the constitution is being shredded), perhaps now Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity et al. can be "brought to justice" for their hate mongering.

Homeland Security - Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment

The hearing was chaired by Democratic Rep. Jane Harman, and ranking Republican, Rep. Dave Reichert.

Toward the end of the hearing, Weitzman rolls out a PowerPoint presentation that presents a few nine/11 truth sites sandwiched in between websites that offer training in terrorist tactics, and a website that glorified the attack of nine/11. Among the websites presented under the heading "Internet: Incubator of nine/11 Conpiracies and Disinfomation", are Architects & Engineers for nine/11 Truuthh, and other sites, such as Killltown's, who brought this Hearing to our attention.

Please ask the Simon Wiesthenthal Center (Mark Weitzman in particular) to stop conflating terrorist violence with nine/11 truuthh, and even though he has not extended the courtesy to us, be polite;

* Exact Hearing title: "Using the Web as a Weapon: the Internet as a Tool for Violennt Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorizm"

HR 1955--look it up!

As indicated by the 404-6 vote, true American patriots support this new commission whole-heartedly. Messrs. Shaffer and Robinson, if you have a problem with the commission, you must be violent radicals so you should report to the nearest detention center immediately. Bring your toothbrush but not your copy of the quaint and outmoded Bill of Rights.

I would like to know who the six congresspersons were who voted against this atrocity of a bill...and you say it will sail easily through the Senate? I surely hope Kucinich voted against it. Is there no one left in this country who actually thinks anymore? Reading this puts me near to tears.

"The bill defines "violent radicalization" as promoting an "extremist belief system"

Oh, so they are outlawing the Republican Party? GOOD.

I hope President Hillary makes full use of the provisions of this bill to wipe these Corporate Extremists from the country.

just kidding.

Sad to say...but fascism is here in the US of A....the beacon of citizen suppression...

Another nail in the coffin of our colletive founding fathers dream of a country free from the malfeasence of a corrupt crown, who would use any excuse, to deny the people their inalienable rights.

These cowerering children, afraid "the people" will use the Internet to pull up the rocks they are hiding under, and discover the nature of the game, will do all they can to shut it down.

Pretty soon, all we'll get is CNN.com, Fox.com and Disney.com.

Be entertained pleb's, we are protecting you, trust us. Go back to work, shut up about the price of gas, we are saving you from the evil doers - be grateful.

I looked it up, and yes, Dennis Kucinich was one of the six congressmen--3 Dems, 3 Reps--who voted against this latest craziness. Thank you, Dennis.
Who is driving this stuff...and by the way, this is the first I've heard of this bill, and I usually try to keep up. Oh, there I go again, depending on the MSM to keep me informed. Shoulda known better.

Gimme an A! Gimme an I! Gimme a P! Gimme an A! Gimme a C!!

Nothing can scare the Dumbersluts like the threat of being labelled anti-semitic if they don't energetically back some surreptitious zionazi project. The cat is out of the bag, and the more that they scream "thinly-veiled anti-semitism!" the more obvious it is just what groups in the US continue to promote repressive legislation.

My first reaction was 'why are we only hearing about this after it's already passed the house?'. Silly me.

And I'm not surprised at the overwhelming bipartisan support--the reason the Dems aren't squawking and fighting about this slide towards facism and have rubber stamped all the assaults on our rights and Constitution is obvious, they want to wield the power as much as the rethuglicans. Does anyone here think Hillary isn't slobbering about getting her hands on 'executive privilege' and signing statements as much as Ghouliani?

Well, taken at face value this appears to be another show of justification for the existence of Congress. They must and will continue to rely on fear and their imaginary ability to protect us all from everything to give some meaning to their positions of authority, other than, of course, to extort all the cash they can for themselves and their constituents before the next election. We do still have elections don't we? But in addition to coming to our rescue, this bill seems to be a nice first step in heavily censoring the internet.

This is one fo the findings listed in the bill.

`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.

Along the same lines of reasoning, or lack therof, as the old fable that listening to rock music makes our children do drugs and be promiscuous, the wrong-wing conservatives now want us to believe that the difference between a conscientious supporter of human rights and a fanatical, violent terrorist is what he reads on the internet. When in reality, the thing the neo-cons fear most and will stop at nothing to prevent is a citizenry who thinks for itself. Expect the free flow of information on the worldwide web to come to a free flow of disinformation, much like the MSM already has become.

It is growing awfully late to reverse what this misadministration has created. Vote Kucinich. Or just smile and nod while the last of your human rights are destroyed...

The thought Police are already here, just hard to spot. These bills will just make them more blatant. You might find these links of interest on the subject.
http://www.populistamerica.com/violent_radicalizers_and_homegrown_terrorists
http://www.populistamerica.com/return_the_constitution_to_the_halls_of_government

As I've said before, when the lawmakers are the lawbreakers there is not much representative democracy left. Look in your history books to see where we are going. Apparently, we never learn.

As the name suggests this articel appeared this morning while I was eating breakfast...I almost puked!

Tonight, I write my Representative and Senators trembling with fear that it may interpreted as an extremist position!

Aren't we lucky that OJ, Paris, Mushy, Sarkosy were in the news last week? I'm sure my Representaive was!

The cave is looking better and better every day...so I'm going back in - C'ya!

This bill is doubleplusgood!

Kucinich was one of three Democrats who voted no.

Bravo Dennis!

Here is the roll call of HR 1955:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993

Nos in red (6). Non-votes in Green (22).

Maybe we all should call our own State Governors, have them meet us at the Capitol buildings in our States, call a press conference, and start praying to God to save us. We could even do a two-fer, by asking him/her to also make it rain in Georgia.

SHAFFER AND ROBINSON ARE KNOWN SUBVERSIVES

Our Neighbor Hood Watch Group, Blackwater Local #999 - Armageddon Division, has had Shaffer and Robinson under surveillance for some time.

The first indication something was up was their unusually large vocabularies and the ability to speak and write in complete sentences coupled with much time spent on the internet.

So far, we've located over 200 internet posts by each of them that included "terrorist - related propaganda" containing such phrases as "burning the flag is a form of free speech, illegal immigrants aren't terrorists and tourists with cameras in NYC are posting photos of buildings on the internet."

Since 20 million other people were also doing the same thing, we decided to DIG DEEPER, using our new Micro-Zoom Stationary-Blimp-Cameras from Blackwater.

We now know that Shaffer and Robinson cannot account for TEN PERCENT of the gasoline they purchased for the last two years. Based on a combination of gas fill-up counts, MPG estimates and point-to-point measures of mileage distance, WE BELIEVE THEY ARE USING THE EXTRA GAS TO BUILD A GIANT, HOME-MADE, DAISY-CUTTER AIR FUSION BOMB IN THEIR GARAGE.

Most important of all, we can prove this is a direct result of what Shaffer and Robinson have READ ON THE INTERNET.

Based on the web sites they visit, our pattern-recognition software uses personality profiles from the Meyers Briggs test to process those URL hits that puts them right up there with Timothy McVeigh and Louis Farrakhan ... so let the commission investigations begin with these two - Robinson and Shaffer - AS A SIGNAL TO THE REST OF THEM.

Finally, thank God Ms Harman has brought the rest of Congress to its senses to CHALLENGE NET NEUTRALITY for what it really is - A FREE PASS AND CONDUIT FOR TERRORISTS EVERYWHERE.

And we thought the FCC lifting of ownership and net neutral restrictions was a problem - well hey, who cares about the flies when you're up to your butt in alligators?

As for our bounty-hunter fees Ms. Harman, they're quite reasonable. We can do one combined data-dump for Shaffer and Robinson together at $1,000,000 or if separate, only $750,000 each. Of course this is above the usual Blackwater permanent government funding for the next century.

That way you can shut down right away all those web sites ACCESSIBLE TO AND READ by Shaffer and Robinson so the remaining UNPATRIOTIC citizens won't be contaminated and transformed into terrorists as well - nothing like HIGH-TECH BOOK BURNING to stop terrorism, right Ms. Harman?

We haven't been this excited since the frenzied aftermath of 9-11 when we dressed in disguise as utility meter readers to spy and take close-up pics of all the suspicious brown people in town.

Thanks Ms. Harman! What patriotism! What a boost in morale! You're welcome to attend our town meetings on Intelligent Design anytime! And the first content we want banned from the internet is "White Man Unburdened" by Norman Mailer.

This is another premptive strike against an already marginalized population. Realizing that there is a rising level of discontent produced by a wholesale shredding of the quality of life for millions of Americans, a paranoid set of rules needs to be set in place to ensure that that status quo is preserved. Pick any failed, horror filled nation state from the pages of history, see the cycle from crushing debtor status to full frontal facism, and learn from it. We can confidently determine points where it's going to get much worse, before it gets any better.

Why was it we were supposed to vote for the Democrats anyway? Because they would supposedly be better than the Republicans? Pardon me while I go puke.

Lobo Gris

this is why, the only "rogue government" that i'm aware of is the one in my own country.

But, there are some of us, who stand for something besides money.

Peace,
Ken Hausle

Governmental enforcement of laws having criminal penalties ultimately rests on the threatened use of force by government agents (police, federal marshals, etc.). Since the purpose of such laws clearly includes the "furtherance of social objectives", this Bill's definition of "homegrown terrorism" (quoted below) is broad enough to include most activities of our government in its definition of "homegrown terrorism" (how ironic that is!). The use of such generic wording in a bill of such importance is a invitation for abuse.

Quoted from the Bill:
"HOMEGROWN TERRORISM.—The term 'homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

The common denominator of most of America's woes - economic, moral, military, constitutional, political and psychological - is still fear. It is out of vogue to resurrect the bogeyman of Osama bin Laden as the ghostly agent of our destruction, but I keep remembering his placid smile and the dark knowledge that guided the strike that effortlessly took down the WTC and imploded our culture, like the tip of a matador's sword piercing the vital spot deep inside a raging bull. Today, billions of dollars later, countless airport strip searches later, hundreds of tortured detainees later, hundreds of thousands of dead noncombatants later, our constitution is in shreds, our population is polarized, our borders are wired shut, our economy is on the verge of recession, our politicians are speaking gibberish and we are passing laws that allow us to terrorize ourselves. From wherever he sits contemplating the success of his handiwork, Osama certainly must see no need for further attacks against the Great Satan. The towers are only in mid-collapse.

Lets just admit it upfront. Per the above definition almost all of us here are "Homegrown Terrorists", and even if we are not, it would not be too hard to argue that we are....

Crazy on top of crazy.

I'm glad i'm about to get out of this all. Or at least i am going to try.

Peace,
Ken Hausle

because per the above defintion...to "coerce" the "government" or the "civilian population" is "terrorism". Wow.

The American people were always the true targets in their Orwellian war.

because per the above defintion…to "coerce" the "government" or the "civilian population" is "terrorism".

telemarketers - you're on notice.

The frog is in the pot, and the water is at about 160 degrees F.

How come I get the feeling that "Homegrown Terrorism" is a euphemism for opposition to fascism?

Bingo Kivals!

Hasn't the current administration already violated this proposed law umpteen times already? If someone were to utter the whole Declaration, they would be deemed a terrorist.

Does this apply to all special interest groups and lobbyists? Can they now be tagged as terrorists?

If it can be proven that Fox News attempts to coerce the public, does it become a terrorist organization?

At work recently I was asked to remove from my cube wall the quote by Hermann Goering: "Of course the people can always be made to do the leader's bidding; all you have to do is tell them they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists as being unpratriotic." Why was I asked to remove it? Because somebody (an unknown to me) told my boss they thought the quote was a good one, but since it was originally uttered by a Nazi it made him feel like a Nazi too. Which of course was the purpose. I was told that we check our first ammendment rights at the corporate door, something I'm sure that the 7 of 9 members of the supreme court appointed by right-wing presidents would agree with. Does that mean that all rights are checked at the door? I'm sure the corporation maintains its constitutional rights (even thought they have always been questionable).

Two weeks ago a friend of mine was asked to leave a party because someone got in her face about the "Impeach Bush" sign in her front yard. I told her she should be proud, that if she complained about their "Vote for Bush" bumper sticker she would be told it was a free country after all.

If this legislation had been tried to be pushed through while Clinton was in office the right would have been outraged. I can't believe they are so short-sighted. But it does after all push towards fascism, which is what they want anyway. They think they are all the chosen and it will never come back to bite them. But history shows that the un-bitten are the exception, not the rule, when fascism runs its inevitable course once it is set to.

"Ms. Harman denies that her bill is a threat to the First Amendment. It clearly states that no measure to prevent homegrown terrorism should violate "constitutional rights, civil rights or civil liberties.""

It doesn't matter what the document states; what does matter is how the courts interpret "violations" of our constitutional and civil rights/liberties in relation to the entire text of the document along with its "Patriot Act" predecessor.

It will be interesting to see what the sponsors of "The World Justice Project" (http://www.abanet.org/wjp/home.html) have to say about this legislation. I would also like to hear an opinion from the ACLU.

Hey, folks. I think we are unnecessarily working ourselves up into a lather over nothing. We all know that our wise and intelligent president (Ivy League educated, no less) will veto such a blatantly unconstitutional bill when it clears the Senate. Barring that, I am sure our learned and impartial Supreme Court will declare this law unconstitutional.

At any rate, King Ralph Nader the Potentate is set to take office in 2009, thereby setting all that is wrong right and restoring order and balance to the universe. All praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Anyone who hasn't done so should read Molly Ivins's last book "Bill of Wrongs." She saw where things were headed and put it into words. I miss her so much!

Would anyone be surprised if we don't have an election in 2008 because martial law has been declared and the election suspended? It seems like anything can happen.

Somehow this seems like an extention of the Christian concept that what we believe is more important than how we behave or the works we do. I have Christian friends and family who admit that they believe anyone who does not buy into the 2,000 year old myth that Jesus died for our sins will really and truly wind up in eternal agony of some kind JUST FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE no matter how good they are in practice.

It's the original thought police filtering down, once again, into politics.

Having people tell me what to think, or what is permissible to think, pisses me off. Both the Right and the Left do it, to varying degrees.

As long as I am not calling for someone else to be hurt or killed, leave me the hell alone.

Tijuana
People don't want to censor Faux "news" - they just think it actually should be news. You know, with facts and informaton.

If someone wanted to put on a show like Faux "news" as a rightwing answer to, for example, The Daily Show, it would be quite alright.

I think people pretty much just object to fabrications being tauted as truth, obvious extreme rightwingnut bias as "fair and balanced," and anything left of Atilla the Hun being denounced as unpatriotic.

Anyone heard from Daniel David lately?----I'm alittle bit worried about his long silence. Would love to hear his rationale for this vote--especially the fact that one of the main sponsors has a D after her name.

What I would like to know folks, is who actually wrote this dispicable piece of legislation? I mean who typed the actual wording? Who is REALLY behind this?

Are the Dems, like Pelosi and Hillary, just so eager to convince the population that they aren't soft on terror? Or are they part of the in-crowd who still somehow think they will be spared when the Iron Heel comes crashing down on what little is left of our freedoms?

It's hard to believe that we could have managed to elect 404 fascist-enthusiasts. or is it just fascist-enablers. Is it possible they all operate under death threats? Guess we'll know if there is mass defections of Congresspeople who won't stand for re-election in 2008. DK, I love you!

What the hell was wrong with the old term, "domestic terrorism"?

Lawmakers need a new way to pitch the hype? At times like this, I realize how
effective it is for the US military and LAPD to both have PR offices specially deployed
in Hollywood.

Next time you see a movie blockbuster using high-tech military and paramilitary
equipment gunning for all of us good Americans, remember access to the really
nice toys require cooperation with the US military and the police.
"Homegrown terrorism" is sure to be a blockbuster of a deal!

Get out of here? They actually have on-call paramilitary police who will show up to
play a cop in the movies?!

To bad, Arnie is busy playing politics, he could have been a great cop.

oh, wait! what the hell am I saying?!

a

What, ya think comrade Harman thought of all those pretty words herself?

"While Ms. Harman denies that her proposal creates "thought police," it defines "homegrown terrorism" as "planned" or "threatened" use of force to coerce the government or the people in the promotion of "political or social objectives."

She's sooooo late to the party:

"The FBI defines terrorism as the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

"The American Heritage Dictionary: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

U.S. Code of Federal Regulations: "...the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

USA PATRIOT Act: "activities that (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the U.S. or of any state, that (B) appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping, and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S."

US Department of Defense: "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

We were talking about... what, again? Jane someone?

Ms. Harman must be a member of her own local bridge club who banned the four champion American players in Shanghai for simply saying they didn't vote for the depraved degenerate in the White House. No trump, anyone?

They'll need to be careful how they define terrorism and extremism.

Is it now extreme to advocate for the First and Fourth Amendments?
Is it now mainstream to subvert them?
Or does it matter primarily who you are, rather than what is being done?

Maybe this is just an example of the government using heavy-handed/fear techniques to govern. For instance, let's take a hundred people. If you can scare 75% of them into remaining orderly, you might be able to make an example of out 1-2 of them and bring another 20-24% in line. That leaves only 1% or so to worry about.

Anyone know the exact bill this article references? It seems to refer only to "violent" radicalization. So while they may jail modern-day Founding Fathers who did indeed have that revolutionary spirit, they won't be jailing a modern-day MLK or Ghandi -- at first glance, anyway.

In any case, it's not the proclamations anyone has to worry about: it's the negative effect they may have on our Bill of Rights. Far worse than a nation that forcibly violates things like free speech and freedom from warrantless search is one in which the people -- themselves -- willingly self-censor their discontent. A nation of sheeple.

The very fact that we can even talk about this is because we are talking about it.