This message is for people worldwide: unless you must make a trip by plane,
I suggest you refrain from using this type of transportation; use e-mail to stay in touch with family and friends, use it on business as well, it's safer.If you do not have a computer use regular mail or the telephone.
It will accomplish several things:
1. you won't get tasered at the airport.
2. you will avoid being frisked in a lewd fashion by sadists.
3. the airlines will go bankrupt, hit the pocket of the globalizers.
4. only the politicians will fly and I don't care if all of them get tasered.

cromerovich, sometimes people don't have much more to add. Yes, heart-attacks deaths are not immediate - just ask the family of the Late media mogul Izzy Asper. Most of the time he made it to the special Heart Section he had built at the St Boniface hospital in time. The last time he didn't.

Yes, the manufacturer is going to say that it is not their products fault and are going to threaten to sue anyone who disses their product (which means no one will unless they are 100% sure). You and Arvy made some good points.

cromerovich says: So if I have this correct, if you have Excited Delirium and you are tasered you may die and your death will be blamed on Excited Delirium, but if you have Excited Delirium and aren't tasered you probably won't die.

That is my take on it as well. Any way, I think that Tazer's manufacturer came up with the term "Excited Delirium" since the Canadian sources says that it is not an actual medical term.

a 72 year old lady, you seem to think this won't happen to you.

Actually, I came here because there is the expected follow up to this story: Poland is definitely getting involved with this.

Canada's ambassador to meet with Polish officials about Taser death
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/11/19/ambassador-meeting.html

Envoy expresses 'sympathy' over Polish man's death
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071119/envoys_taser_071119/20071119?hub=Canada

Other issues coming up are the hijab in sports and the whole Omar Khadr trial.

Canada: come for the backbacon, stay for the 50,000 volts

Globalization, The Empire is large....nowhere to run...nowhere to hide...George Orwell, the prophet.

Thinkingmom is right. The IRON HEEL of our government is stomping its way around the world. There is no place to hide, unless you are Osama.
Hoa binh

Imagine that … idiots in Canada too...

The use of a taser as a substitute for a firearm is not looking so good these days. Would the RCMP have used firearms if they had no taser; I think not. These seem to be four goons who substituted real work for the easy and "safe way" out. Now an eighty-year-old woman outlives her son and a man is dead for not much other than being an immigrant who could not understand what is was that was asked of him. Of course that's easy for me to say so far away from the event but if it looks like a duck … well, you know…

Though the taser genie seems to be out of the bottle one can only hope there is still time to cork it before it is too late.

The problem has nothing to do with empire. Many police don't know what Tasers are for. It's obviously not just a US problem. I expect anybody who lets police have Tasers will run into this until police figure out that tasered people writhe in pain and scream. They don't shut up and keep still like they try to make them do.

The real story, however, is how big a story this is in Canada - from coast to coast.

It would have been ignored, outside of the local papers and TV if it had happened in the US. There certainly would not have been the widespread clamor to do something about it.

No one will be held accountable, here in the UK the police shot a Brazilian plumber 7 times through the head, after the inquest it was decided it was all an unfortunate accident.

The problem has much to do with Empire. I see two aspects of this in the current example. People cannot act "human" in an airport...or they risk death...witness the woman in Phoenix recently...the high tech, high security, high anonymity of airports leads to frustration, frustrated people act frustrated...they yell, they puff up their bodies, they are looking for compassion and sympathy (and a solution to their problem)...but the empire deals with them using a police force. A police force full of "soldiers" who believe in orders and order...not messy human unpredictability. A police force who have at their disposal high tech weapons and surveillence equipment, who's mission it is to impose the "order" of the masters. What a horrible tragedy...We always hear that Canada is like the US, only 20 years ago...looks like they caught up... At who's bidding? Airport security??? it's all for show...and people are dying because of it...Why has it become subdue and arrest first? why not engage a little??? Guilty till proven innocent...sounds like empire to me. MUST BEHAVE...

Good ol benign modern technology in action.

Yes-it is amazing that Canada has idiots too. What is the world coming to? Next I will find out that Canada is, I dont know, annually slaughtering half a million baby seals with spiked clubs to save face for destroying the east coast fisheries. But lol--that could never happen. Canada is a peaceful non violent country.

This behavior is all due to 9/11 and the terrorism facade. http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=1941&CID=143085

Fascism at its peak.

Back in the 70's you had to be 6 feet tall and a man to join the RCMP. When the boots and hat were added, the police officer presented at about 6 foot 3 inches tall and looked down at most people. This gave the officer his first line of authority and defense. These officers were well trained, confident, and muscular. Most individuals, who were approached by them, automatically were somewhat subdued.

Then the RCMP became politically correct and the physical stature and gender requirement was terminated. In the feeble attempt to replace this front line defense, we now have tasers. You cannot replace real police officers with boys and girls dressed in pretty costumes.

You've never met a drill instructor have you S17TR5? The ones I met were all shorter than I am and had no trouble intimidating the hell out of me. Your size does not make you a better man. Bigger weapons are not the way to enforce order. Proper training in martial arts (judo in this case) would have given the cops all they needed to subdue this guy and all would have lived. Calling in someone from the airlines who could speak Russian would have been a good idea, at least then someone could have figured out he was Polish and rather than torture the guy to death the cops could have spoken to him. The bastards didn't wait to open fire, IMHO it was an act of murder by the police.

Calling it disgraceful conduct by the RCMP is like describing gang rape as a 'mild social deviation.'

What a shame

I saw the video of this incident. The police officer drew a taser before words were even exchanged. Police have levels of force that are used.
The first is simply the officers presence. It failed to have any effect on Mr. Dziekanski.
The next level is verbal commands which the officers failed to attempt as evidenced in the video. A security agent told the police that the man did not speak English. Attempts should still have been made to direct the suspect to comply.
The next is physical control which again the officers failed to even try.
The next is the use of "non-lethal" weapons (Nightstick, Tear Gas or Taser)
The last level is deadly force.
These officers failed to follow proper guidelines for control of a suspect and the use of deadly force. They clearly escalated the situation. This death was preventable. Mr. Dziekanski made no effort to physically confront the officers in any way.

Any "working cop" who cannot take someone into custody without electrocuting him or her, needs to have his head examined.
Cops have been taking people into custody for decades, without the capability of electrocution. They still can; it's called a little good, old-fashioned, police-work.
New toys for the girls and the boys! And believe me, the girls and the boys will use their new toys. These fools did. And it cost an innocent man his life.
The video is undeniable. It is, what it is.
Tasers need to be taken away, period. They have been consistently misused by law-enforcement time and again. Just look around on the net.
When any group "out there," is that irresponsible with the tools they carry; those tools need to be taken away. No judgement no; no sale.

"He urged the public to withhold their judgment of what they see on the video until the police can explain their conduct while testifying under oath at a coroner's inquest."

So the police kept the video for a month before it was requested to be returned and the best they can come up with is wait until the inquest. How long until that becomes public record, not that it matters. All the parties have had a chance to view and review their actions and develop plausible explanations for what people will see, and make sure their stories match.

For shame. The folks who say that without Tasers, the cops would have had to risk assault with a stapler are right on. Those 4 jack-booted goons took the easy way out...for themselves.

This abuse of power is really sick and out of control. Before tasers, they would have just had to find a translator!

Just as gun manufacturers are prosecuted for shooting deaths, the makers of tasers should be on trial. How many deaths so far from these "nonlethal" tools? It's in the hundreds. How many avoidable deaths? The number's the same. What's wrong with this picture?

On the broader horizon, as the Bush/Cheney ooze spreads, there will be more and more resistance; Tasers are just once more nasty word in their lexicon of fear and terror.

The cops are enjoying the hell out of torturing people with tasers. And here in the good old USA, the public seems to support them!

"He urged the public to withhold their judgment of what they see on the video until the police can explain their conduct while testifying under oath at a coroner's inquest."

A picture is worth a thousand words.

I don't think the RCMP will be able to "explain" anything.

I do not understand. It is not just about the taser gun. It is about the fact that instead of approaching him "hey buddy what we can do for you" thingy they fucking shot him. That is the problem. Real gun or taser gun does not matter. The problem is that the very first thing that comes to their mind is to shoot.

Porcupine--tasers are just one more of the many developed weapons to keep the "rabble" at bay. There are so many "crowd control" devises being developed now with our tax dollars that are and will continue to be used against us. It's like asking a group of people who are going to be shot in the head, to dig their own mass grave first. WAKE UP CITIZENS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!

thinkingmom---empire or fascism?----doesn't matter what we call it--it's about total and brutal control of the many by the few. Names don't matter. By their deeds you will know them.

Shoot and ask questions later......and if he dies, well dead man don't talk. This is the four more years republican's voted for! Isn't it great!

Here is a story: The 87 year-old father-in-law of my close friend was detained at JFK two year ago. He was flying in from Japan to attend the promotion ceremony of his daughter-in-law, a US Air Force officer, who was being promoted to full Colonel. He was to be the guest of honor. This distinguished, elderly Japanese citizen was a well known professor of agronomy and plant physiology having trained generations of scientists throughout Asia. His long flight fatigue and slow English led the ever vigilant Customs officials to shout at him and take him off for three hours of interrogation -- all while his son, a university professor in New York, was frantically trying to find out what had happened to him. When our guardians finally released the thoroughly shaken-up father to his son, the old professor was barely able to speak. The next day he suffered a heart attack at the promotion ceremony at Dover Air Base and had to be hospitalized for over a month. Moral of the story - there is none - fascism cast a broad net and has no concern over the suffering of its victims. They always have an excuse - its called 'protecting the public'. There was no follow-up: My Colonel friend was discouraged from lodging a complaint..."We have to protect the system." Change the nationalities and era: An elderly Jewish professor in the early days of fascist Germany...the family with official positions, discouraged from complaining.

2cents,

Thanks for the post from CBC, glad to see there's resistance. As with so many things happening just south of your border, tazering people to death is definitely yet another import I'm sure y'all don't want, and with good reason. In my view, cops shouldn't be armed with anything but conflict resolution and self-defense skills, and should be banned from using force unless the threat of bodily harm is real, and they never should use lethal force.

On the other hand, I also think that the prison industrial complex as a whole needs to be abolished - it's caused way too much pain and suffering, and is anything but a solution. Some of you may say "What would we do with violent offenders," to which I would point out a few things:

Most people who break the law aren't violent offenders;

Many people have been murdered by the police without even being charged with anything to begin with, or were not even breaking the law when they were murdered;

What we need is community-based, compassionate, restorative justice work, not prisons.

Kropotkin said it best years ago, prisons serve no purpose save to be be universities where people can learn to be better criminals - to which I would add, they also serve to intimidate, coerce and force people into compliance and submission with an authoritarian state/corporate force (aka fascism). As long as there are prisons, there never will be democracy.

Unlike the completely barbaric USA (the United States of Atrocities), Canada is a somewhat civilized nation. I can only hope that Canada sets a good example for the USA by banning taser guns.

The RCMP have really been reduced to a gang of thugs. Four of them were unable to control this situation that involved one man without using the taser as their first choice of action - something is wrong with this picture. A terrible crime being committed by ones who should be preventing crime. So-called "terrorism" has brought us police state practices and its not a surprise given the lack of leadership is Canada and the US.

As a Canadian I am ashamed. As a human being I am ashamed. The R.C.M.P. is out of control and they answer to no one.

I don't know if the non-canadian readers herd the one about the young guy in Northern British Columbia who was shot by a R.C.M.P. officer in the back of the head. The investigation came to the conclusion that during a struggle between the two the cop shot the young guy in the head while they were wrestling on the floor. All quite possible I suppose until you read the part where they would have you believe the young guy was on top with the cop facig down and some how he was able to get his gun out, reach behind and shoot the kid in the head.

like I believe that........as much as I believe what comes out of politicians mouths before election!

Hmm, looks like 'ole Canada is moving right along in their quest to be like "our heroes" here. Dirty shame to take what was a nice country, Fair country, open to it's neighbor's poitical refugees during the Vietnam fiasco.
Now, thanks to their government's leaders being bought by our corporations, being taught how to drop to their knees to feed, they have the "honor" of being right down there next to the "Evil Empire" itself; The United States of Amnesia.

when big boys have a toy, they just have to use it. get rid of tazers, and give them a net gun.

Oh, Canada,
Not enough room for the refuge seekers?

How the mighty is falling:
Tased to death the Polish immigrant,
seeking refuge with his elderly mother.
Refused asylum to US soldiers
seeking refuge from Bush's dirty war.

Oh, Canada!!

Makes mental note to self: "Be sure to cross Canada off the list of places to flee in case of martial law..."

Let's see, four burly cops, one unarmed middle-aged man not making any threats or threatening gestures. Yeah, better shoot him with whatever we have before we talk to him.
'To serve and protect.'

what the US has in mind for Canada is Anschluss...
and sadly, there are Canadians who are keen on it, wanting to be "just like Big Brother to the South"

just look at Harper and his mob... Americanising Canada as fast as they can/dare, thuggifying and militarising the coppers, eroding the social safety net, buying off business-owners with tax rebates. Thatcherism, like termites, spreading throughout the English-speaking nations.

there is resistance in Canada though... more power to them.

You can see the video here:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/276565

and here:

http://www.thestar.com/fpLarge/video/277156

Yes DeAnander, our current government does suck, but the number of people who would admit that they want to be more like "big brother" to the south is quite small.

We do have a few dumbass right-wingers, but most of them are somewhere around Hillary or Obama on the political scale (yes, that's right wing in Canada).

Now back to topic, what really bothers me is how we (I think it was the same in the US) were sold on law enforcement getting tazers. We were all told it was going to save lives because they are less lethal than guns. Nobody said anything about them being used as a restraining method.

WTF: We're f'n furious about this, it's the talk of every office. If you want to see what typical Canadians think, check the posted comments on the website of our national broadcaster:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/bc/2007/11/whats_your_reaction_to_this_vi.html

DeAnander: "Anschluss" - Austria, 1938

They'll soon have us begging to be allowed to join the Fourth Reich. I'd say we're about 80% there already. Amazing what propaganda and the modern media can accomplish.

Do you mean to say that there's resistance? That there are some who have decided to straighten their backs from centuries of colonial stoop? Really? More power to them indeed!

It sickens me to no end to watch my country in its final free fall towards the totalitarian, fascist black hole that is our neighbour south of the 'longest undefended border'.

For shame.

You would think with all of the "security" at the airports someone may have noticed the man was in the area for 10 hours.
Passangers are made to feel like they are criminals-I am surprised more people do not fly.
In the usa we are lucky to get a bathroom at any place of business.
This is more spend money and then be on your merry way. People do not care about each other because there is no profit in it.

Always Taser or shoot to kill___and if that doesn`t work, then waterboard them. That is our new world.

One good thing: Canadians are truly shocked and outraged by this incident. It's a huge story and it's not going away. It's all over the news and everybody seems to be disgusted by it. The brave guy who took the video also took a stand and released it. So maybe something will change because of this. From what I've read, this makes about 18 deaths by taser here in Canada, about 200 in the states, so far. They started out as a "last resort" alternative to guns but they've turned into the favourite punishment by incompetent cops everywhere.

The problem is not with the police forces having tasers, it is that the type of people who are hired for the police forces are a low quality human with low moral standards. That is because they are the type which will obey orders unquestionably. If anyone thinks that the capitalist police forces are there to serve and protect, then you're really gullible and you might as well continue voting in those phony elections.

Sick. Demented. Stupid. The Taser did nothing positive for anyone except the Taser manufacturer: the man continues to struggle violently even after being electrocuted. Only now he's in extreme pain and his body is surging with adrenalin. Does that help the officers? I doubt it.
The RCMP will spin and twist the perception of this incident all they can, but the truth is plain and simple: this was thuggery. For not having taken the time to find a Polish translator (in Vancouver for god's sake, man!) or even approaching the man with a bottle of water and a damned cookie to sit and listen (even if they didn't understand a word) the entire security administration at YVR should be fired in a public ceremony. They have lost their humanity.

DeAnander November 16th, 2007 7:50 pm said,

"what the US has in mind for Canada is Anschluss…"

Yeah, I've been warning my Canadian friends about that for the last few years. I think right now the Anschluss is on hold while they do their secret North American Co-Prosperity Sphere. You know the one where they turn North America into one country so the American Corporations can rape Canada's natural resources using cheap Mexican Labour, all carefully guarded by Blackwater, er, Homeland Security. They even plan a new currency standard, the Yanko, or something like that.

This weapon is a toy or tool for sadists. The police who Tasered the kid who asked Kerry a question, this and other examples show that the police just loose control of themselves and seem to enjoy what they are doing. The country would be safer and less violent if no one had these weapons. The police should be like the Britsish Bobbies-unarmed. And they should have to take pschological tests repeatedly. A mentally imbalanced person or a person who enjoys violence on any level should not be in law enforcement on any level.

Is that like the British Bobbies who shot an innocent Brazilian in the head seven times and then asked him what his business was? All of the police forces of all of the corporate governments are nothing more than the famous SS of nazi Germany fame. If you don't understand what kind of world you are living in then you might just as well sit back in your soft easy-chair and watch the world change for the better once we get rid of that scum. But when the change does come we don't want to hear any complaints from you about how we execute the billionaries and the other scum which abetted them in their multitudinous crimes.

This is absolutely shocking!

If you liked the taser, just wait till you get the puke ray:-

http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=138&a=4196

After the Maher Arar investigation, the report said the RCMP was "terribly broken", and it did lead to that horrible little man, Zaferelli(?) being booted, but yeah, these copsuckers have become like a cult. If some brave politician does stand up against them, it won't be long before there will be an "RCMP Press Release" saying the guy or gal is being investigated for something or other. And it works; shuts them up, fast.

"To Serve and Protect" . . . themselves. And they hate us, the civilians. Whenever one of them is "killed in the line of duty," thousands of them gather, including amerikan cops, and it's reminiscent of the Hells Angels or the Mob. Gang mentality rules.

By the time enough people wake up and realize, yeah, there is a sadistic streak, from the top on down, mean enough to blow up the Twin Towers for their agenda's sake, it will be too late.

Why didn't they get someone to interpret the language????? I used to work in a hospital. That's always what we did. Try to determine what language they spoke and go from there! It was no big deal to have German traveling in the west sightseeing!