The Dims are "cowed" on almost every issue because the repugs know how to frame the debate.

Yes, just make a template for anything the Dems do that starts with "Democrats cowed (fill in specific issue here)"
Instead of a donkey, maybe the symbol of the Democratic party should be a cow?

sheep will be the new mascot
for the DemoKrack-Heads
why?
because the mask themselves as progressives
when most behave like neo-liberals

Well, since others have already stated the obvious, I'll just step back and wait for the inevitable "Better Democratic cow than Republican bull".

But, in the immortal words put into Clara Peller's mouth: where's the beef?

Maybe this sounds too cynical, but it seems to me that all the democrats do is engage in sloganeering and then pretend to be beaten down. This way they seem to be supporting a cause, but in reality they are no different from the republicans, their underlying agendas are the same. AG Mukasey's confirmation hearing was a good example. The democrats made "passionate" speeches but that was it. If they really wanted to stop his confirmation because they found his stance on torture repugnant, they could have filibustered. Of course, their answer usually is, that they would be at a political disadvantage if they were to really take a stand based on principles, thus once again showing that they either have no spine or more likely they don't really fundamentally care about these issues to a point of actually taking a firm stand on them.

I don't understand how the 'LEFT' has become so docile in its analysis. The idea that Democrats are 'cowed' doesn't fit with their thorough and complete complicity in war crimes, their joint membership in CFR, Bilderberg, etc. I don't remember a more depraved time in the last 30 years, but most puzzling to me is the way old-time leftists have lost their teeth and traded them for dentures.

And in 2008 we on the left will be told, yet again, to support the Dems because "...they really have our interests at heart, they have a tough job, they just haven't had the votes, they ARE really better than the Repubs, etc."
In other words, the same old crap.

We can also expect the pleas to become more and more strident as the Dem apologists, enablers, and hangers-on fight to convince THEMSELVES that they haven't been sold a bill of goods going all the way back to Carter and LBJ.

We, however, are convinced by our eyes, our ears and our experience that the Dems have been basically worthless for the last 40 years.

So to all of you about to write furiously about the left's naivete, lack of realistic assessment, etc...GET REAL!
The Dems are just going to screw you again. We know it and deep down inside, in places you don't want to think about, you know it too.

As for Third Parties, right now we have about 1 1/4 parties.
There's the Republocrats which make up 1 party and the Kucinich branch of the Dems, about 1/4 of a party.

What we need is a Second party...and a Third and a Fourth and maybe a Fifth and Sixth.

This isn't a case of "cowed." It's a case of "this makes no friggin' sense whatsoever."

Expecting people without legal status to self-identify in order to get legal status to drive a vehicle is just plain stupid on its face.

Why should they do such a thing, so that they can be held accountable should they have an accident? To avoid getting a ticket if thye're stopped? You're kidding, right?

No, I know: they actually want to be deported and so are going to step right up and say, "Me, me, me!!"

Uh, yeah -- right.

This whole immigration issue is full of absurdities. The Republicans are divided between employers who want to keep immigration illegal but to keep it coming so they can have lots of easily exploitable workers without right, and those nativists who really want to keep them out. The unions are probably torn between wanting strict enforcement and dealing with the reality that hundreds of thousands are already here, depressing American wages. Labor's dream scenario is to pull out of NAFTA to stop jobs going south--even though they're going to China instead--and keep Mexicans from coming north. In my view we might as well let everyone in to destroy the human trafficking industry, but make sure immigrants are properly documented so we know who's going in and out at the border. Who knows, we might catch a real, live terrorist sneaking in through the South. Oh, and none of George W.'s "guestworker" program, of the kind that has Europe so screwed up with its immigrants. If they want to stay, let them have green cards and prepare them for citizenship. We should view Mexico as our impoverished hinterland as a counter to China's impoverished hinterland.

The speaking only English part doesn't seem unfair to me. I mean if they want to live here; immigration issues aside and aas a general principle, isn't it on them to assimilate into our culture?

Now it's immigrants: Is there anyone the republican party doesn't hate? They aren't a political party. They're a focus group for hatred! Lets see;

They hate Iraq
They hate Iraqis
They hate the French
They hate the Palestinians
They hate War Crimes Tribunals
They hate the United Nations
They hate Amnesty International
They hate the Middle East
They hate the Muslim faith
They hate Muslims
They hate the Koran
They hate Planned Parenthood
They hate doctors who provide abortions They hate birth control
They hate women who have abortions
They hate democrats
They hate liberals
They hate Bill Clinton
They hate John Kerry
They hate Ted Kennedy
They hate veterans
They hate the New York Times
They hate the Supreme Court
They hate New Orleans
They hate immigrants
They hate environmentalists
They hate Al Gore
They hate Cindy Sheehan
They hate Nancy Pelosi
They hate George Soros
They hate universal healthcare
They hate Michael Moore
They hate political activists
They hate anti-war supporters
They hate the "rule of law."
They hate government
They hate animal activists

Good lord! Have I missed anybody? Is there anyone they don't hate?

While I agree that the Democrats are usually "cowed" by the scare tactics of the GOP, on this issue of issuing driver licenses to illegal immigrants I see it as a victory for the people. Like the Dubai ports issue – this was something the majority of people did not want. Yes, there must be immigration reform to allow more people to enter legally but uncontrolled illegal immigration leads to many problems in our country. "Look at all those illegal Salvadoran gardeners and Mexican bus boys and Jamaican nannies and Haitian sugar cane cutters" all earning barely livable wages-and being exploited and keeping down the wages of American workers. This is what illegal immigration does.

massud:

"The speaking only English part doesn't seem unfair to me. I mean if they want to live here; immigration issues aside and aas a general principle, isn't it on them to assimilate into our culture?'

I believe in the principle of fairness. It is fair for us to require of foriegn visitors anything that we are willing to have required of us when it is we who are the visitors. Are we willing, for example, for Americans working in Baghdad to give up the expectation of an English speaking environment, or to live outside the Green Zone and assimilate into the culture of their host country?

Stiv Whitman,

The problem has gone beyond left vs. right. The problem is up vs. down.

This article is the old-style smoke blowing. Being "afraid" and altering a course of action presupposes that they HAD an alternate course of action. It makes that assumption without any critical analysis.

I sure as hell don't buy it any more.

Massud: I've had ancestors from Germany who lived here 20-40 years before speaking English. I've gone through church records of one of their churches -- they had a German language service up until the 1960's.

I've got a couple ancestors who apparently never learned English (there's typically a column on the census forms, indicating ability to speak English). Some of my great-great-grandparents grave stones are written in German, Danish or Czech.

The normal pattern of immigration is that the new immigrants may or may not learn much of the new langage. They're adults (and it's harder to learn new languages as you grow older). The first US born generation is bi-lingual, able to speak with its parents -- as well as its peers. The second US born generation may speak English only, and might not even be able to communicate very well with its immigrant grandparents.

That's just the way it typically works. If I had to move to India tomorrow because the US finally offshored the last IT job, it would most likely be a long while until I picked up fluent Hindi.

Personally, I have nothing against any other nationality, sexual preference, religious belief, idealogy et al. Although, I will right here and now confess to an intense hatred of gwb. Could it be he represents the true EVIL in all of us against which we rebel? I haven't the answer, but I know I am not alone. My point about illegal immigration is that it's a LAW and LIKE ANY OTHER LAW, it must be adhered to and enforced. What gives anyone the right to pick and choose what law is to be followed or enforced? If it's a law on the books, heed it and enforce it, otherwise CHANGE THE LAW...amend it or get rid of it, outside of the influence of other nations or special interests.

It's not easy to patrol thousands of miles of border, and who would want the US to look like former East Berlin anyway? We'd begin wondering whether the border was to keep people out, or to keep us in.

But it should be possible for the IRS, etc. to properly document business payrolls, taxes, etc. Illegals wouldn't be coming here in such numbers of there weren't so many jobs waiting for them.

We're still debating about the Democrats? I thought that debate was over. How many traitorous examples do the American people need? Really? Let's get deeper on this immigration issue and recognize what drives this mindless nonesense. RACISM.

One of the un-intended consequences of our racism is that it is killing our economy. Corporate America doesn't care - they're making their profits off our hate. But for the average America, who gets so upset by illegal immigration, their racism is killing the economy, and the future of this country.

Two examples:
The reason India's economy is taking off is directly attributable to our racism. Corporations were able to hire cheap high-tech workers from overseas under th H-1b visa program. We didn't want the brownies to become Americans, they got the message, and instead opened high-tech companies in India. India is booming from the offshoring of our technology, and as everyone knows, that is the future of our economy.

In the old days we would have made them citizens and they would have returned the favor by creating economic growth in our country.

Low tech latins. 15 million people picking your lettuce, washing your dishes, mowing your lawn. They use our health services, educational services, and don't pay taxes. How stupid is that. The corporations make their profits - but America get's screwed out of a tremendous amount of tax revenue.

Make them citizens. They will then pay taxes to pay for the services they use, and one side benefit to racist white America, they will be paying into social security - insuring your retirement.

Look, the corporations don't care about the future of this country as long as they make their profits, the democrats are owned by the corporations, and legalizing immigrants will cost them money. The current situation works just fine - don't expect any change.

And as long as middle America, remains as racist as they are, they will be too filled with hate, to realize that they are screwing themselves.

Adios America,
Ramsay

greatbear215,
They are self-haters, that's why they spit hatred towards everything and everybody. So yeah, you miss that deep down they hate themselves too.

The Doormat Democrats don't even have dentures. They're toothless.

I won't vote for any of the gummy Dems except for Dennis Kucinich. I'll write his name in.
:)

This is not an issue of racism. The topic is not immigration but illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration from Mexico is part of the the same dynamic that allows American corporations to cross borders and evade human rights, labor and environmental standards to suppress costs and improve profit margins.

Suppression of labor costs is accomplished by off-shoring/out-sourcing to foreign countries where there is cheaper labor.

Similarly, suppression of labor costs is achieved by creating a labor force of illegal sub-citizens exploitable by illegal employers.

Any type of program that makes these illegals "legal" also undermines their worth.... they are only marketable if they can work for employers outside legal parameters. The minute they are officially "on the books" and visible, they are no longer valuable.

Certainly, the illegal immigrants shouldn't be punished or treated badly.

More creative means are available like really cracking-down on the illegal employers..... how about taking Mexico to the International Court and fining them for supporting and encouraging illegal immigration? How about sanctions on that Kleptocracy to the South called Mexico? How about pressure on the Kleptocratic Mexican government to implement reforms that achieve a sustainable economy without making its population the number one export?

Legal immigration should not cater to only one Kleptocratic neighbor..... if there is trully a need for this grand work-force to be serviced by legal immigration, then immigrants should be coming from places other than Mexico as well.

The Democratic Party should not go along with this rightist, corporatist state of affairs.... illegal immigration is all about labor exploitation.... not racism.

I'm surprised no one in this thread has mentioned America's history with immigration:

We've always hated it. After stealing the land from the native inhabitants, the first generation of Americans didn't like the next wave of immigrants from Germany and Ireland. Who in turn didn't like or trust the immigrants from Italy, who for their part didn't want those eastern Europeans, and so on.

It's funny, really, in a sad way.

Dear GreatBear215:

Great list of things the Republican Party hates; very comprehensive. But don't forget:

They hate gay people.
They hate pagans.
They hate freethinkers.
They hate intellectuals.
They hate secular humanists.
They hate writers & artists.
They hate free speech.
They hate children.
They hate the truth.

Ramsay---you nailed it---racism with a dash of finger pointing followed by a heavy dollop of scapegoating. The American people get dupped so often it is scary. NAFTA exacerbated the influx of illegal immigrants---nothing like watching your family starve to motivate a move north....

This is more of Rove's Machiavellian plans. Couple the fear (myth) of voter fraud, with people's willingness to fear/loathe our southern neighbors, and you have the perfect combination for passing ID bills all over he country designed to suppress voter turnout even further.

The elite cannot risk anything remotely resembling a heavy populist voter turn out. The idea that illegals would risk coming out of the shadows to vote, when their real fear is deportation, is ridiculous on the face of it, but it's amazing how this is being utilized by the powerful elite.

These folks are relentless in their pursuit of power at any cost, and the people may not understand how badly they have been used until it is too late. Hate indeed!!!

ghostdansing---- making illegals legal would remove a class of exploitable labor currently in place---sure it's about outsourcing and about wage suppression and union busting and every oother corporate criminal tactic on the books.
Legal workers could organize and demand better wages. Illegals risk retribution. If you care about workers, care about ALL workers---you can't pick and choose. Exploitation does not distinguish by color or nationality---it just goes on exploiting. We need laws that punish corporations for exploitation, not workers for desperation.
Frosty bunny ---You nailed another telling phenomenon.

Anita Linker's Great list of things the Republican Party hates.. left out the most important thing:

THEY HATE THEMSELVES!

Really! Deep down, they do...

The Dems always kowtow to the fascist discursive manipulations of the Repugs because such discourse appeals to fear and hatred, two of the most powerful motivators. Once the right identifies another object of fear and hatred (see above lists courtesy Great Bear 215 and Anita Linker), the hysteria escalates and the real villains, global corporate powers and their compliant political puppets, are even further hidden from public scrutiny. Those who try to speak out against the hate and fear are then viewed as weaklings and dupes. Hence the Dems' capitulation. The irony is that it is the Dems who then appear even more like weaklings and dupes.

"Illegal immigrants" are a convenient scapegoat for all our problems. In reality, their economic exploitation is part of the larger network of global injustice and increasing inequities between the rich and powerful and those at the bottom. It's far easier to hate and fear those even less powerful than to face the reality that we too are caught up in the same vicious system.

America is a country that loves to wallow in fear. Fear of Mexicans, fear of Muslims, immigrants, etc. Katie bar the door. The US is not the Land of the Free. It's the Land of the Fear. And the quisling Democrats are helping to pimp this fear. What's next Tancredo like ads?

jp---thanks for saying so much more eloquently what I was trying to say earlier. It's what I meant when I said finger pointing----"Hey, don't look at what we are doing to screw all of you---look at those "illegal aliens." I despise the term and all that it connotes.

Why is it so easy to stir up hatred and intolerance and fear in people, when those of us trying to raise the consciousness run into blank stares and turned backs? Will that ever end?

JP: You raised points I intended to... it's all about divide and conquer. If the "little people" didn't have their angst directed at a scapegoat, they might look to ACTUAL cause for their low income misery and other missing elements of that social contract that makes a nation decent and worth living in! This strategy was proven effective by the Nazis. Create a target group, make them the ones responsible for all problems, and you never have to change the system that also makes sure someone is paying dues at the bottom.

GREAT BEAR: Here's the real irony, that the vast majority on the "love to hate" list are fundamentalist Christians (Bush's base), and there they are singing hosannas to a whole list of things to direct negative energy at, but they believe Jesus is their savior; Jesus, who taught LOVE YOUR ENEMIES.

The absurdities are getting so thick, our atmosphere may just turn into silly putty!

"Make them citizens. They will then pay taxes to pay for the services they use, and one side benefit to racist white America, they will be paying into social security - insuring your retirement."

That's a good point, though I think we must also address our whole third world debt scheme (and it is a scheme).

I have to wonder how many people really want to uproot themselves and their children from their home countries to start over in a completely alien culture. They only do that when things suck where they are and they perceive that there is somewhere better to go.

The question is: Why do things suck so much where they are?

If we want to get a handle on the whole immigration issue, we need to understand the whole game of foreign destabilization and crushing debt foisted on the third world by first world saboteurs. Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" is a good start.

to the poster above who said that this is about "breaking the law" I have to disagree.

It is human nature to migrate. There are many reasons, but human history is the story of migration.
Scarce resources, fear of rulers, climate change, maybe even just a fresh start.

As recently as a hundred years ago you could travel anywhere sans passport (think I read this somewhere, no links for backup)

This is just another proof to me that USA is anything but a christian nation, christian values would welcome a stranger with hospitality.

USA took the southwest from Mexico, I believe Mexico claimed California, Arizona, New Mexico & texas. People have long memories, especially when it comes to injustices.

I thought the driver's liscence thing was so that employers could hire cheap drivers and they need a drivers license to be covered by insurance, so its all about what corporations want in the long run.

I live in Pittsburgh Pa, I applied for a job recently as a parttime janitor at a local coffee shop--I couldn't believe the application they gave me, they wanted 3 references, past job history (last 4 jobs) criminal history & urinalysis--alll that for a 3 night a week cleaning job that paid less than minimum wage.
But my point is I've encountered very few people that don't speak english, there are few jobs here & I don't think there are any illegal immigrants here either.

"It is human nature to migrate. There are many reasons, but human history is the story of migration."

For sure, that's true.

However, we also shouldn't overlook the fact that third world nations are constantly being destabilized politically and socially and then turned into debtor nations by first world nations. This is nothing new, been going on for centuries.

We should also remember that things are not as they used to be. There are, what, over 6 billion people on the planet now. Competition for dwindling resources (food, water, energy, etc.) is increasing and putting even more pressure on first world nations. Historically, there were plenty of resources for an increase in local populations. No more.

Maybe the birds are finally coming home to roost in our front yards.

We are a nation of laws or we aren't. Bush, Inc breaks the law with impunity. Globe straddling corporations regard the laws of sovereign nations as impediments to "free trade".

When the laws are not enforced fairly everyone suffers.

For years the immigration laws have not been enforced. Immigration policy has been neglected. People from the south have been coming in with impunity. American citizenship, upon which American national sovereignty is built, is being disrespected by those who do not deal responsibly with immigration policy, and those who need work because opportunity is slim in their own countries. Canadian immigrants are few and far between.

There should be a generous immigration policy towards peoples of the south, as there should be towards the people of Iraq. All have suffered grievously at the hands of the imperial beast.

Juan Gonzalez, like his side kick, Amy Goodman, never mentions the issue of lawful citizenship. They frame the issue in terms of anti-immigrant feeling, racism, bigotry, xenophobia, injustice. Meanwhile, many thousands who have entered the country without observing rites of citizenship, demand their right to be here.

It is wrong of Juan Gonzalez to frame the issue in this way, it is wrong of Amy Goodman to ignore the most basic fact that law is the foundation of human rights. We need good laws, not civil rights demagoguery. We need compassionate law. We need to restore the rule of law in our government, our corporations, our nation state. We do not live in a North American Union, but even if we did, citizenship would still have its legal definition and its requirements.

We do not live in a global village with a global government. That is not even a good idea except from the perspective of stateless corporations that make a nice profit from playing off one state against another.

to GreatBear215
hahahahahahahahahaha!

Just got home from my 12 hour two job day...enjoyed your list of republican..annoyances..I have a few of my own..but I'll leave that to another day. just suport Dennis Kucinich and lets hope that maybe we can convince him that enough is enough...the democraps are history!

The first principle of the immigration issue is to remember they are people too, and much like us.
The second principle to remember is that compassion works better than confrontation, when we are not under attack.
The third principle to remember is that rules do matter; but if they don't work, they need to be changed.
On this third point, we need to really look at the hardship placed on rural Mexicans by NAFTA agricultural trade barriers.
We also need drastic reform of the ICE bureaucracy, which is in no way capable of handling a job which has grown much quicker than their budget. But it's not just budgetary, it's procedures and institutional assumptions as well. They need to get together with other nations, esp. Mexico, to establish standards for migratory labor and changes of nationality.
This is a bureaucratic problem; we don't need war talk.

Had enough yet?

Don't vote Democrat. They are not on our side.

Republicans are the worst.
Democrats are second worst.
Greens are off the radar.

So what's the choice when it comes to voting in 2008?

A green vote is wasted.
A Republican vote is unthinkable.

Politics sometimes has to be about choosing the second worst.

In a nation without good leaders, there are never any solutions. Things just get worse and then there is ultimately a reaction usually out of proportion to the problem. Good leaders would have addressed the immigration problem with intellegence, sensitivity and realism. Instead our so called leaders seem paralyzed by the fear of the right wing agenda. When will they stand up and say that nothing the right wing republican agenda has stood for has ever been truly right for human life. Instead of a solution with clarity, simplicity that provides some resolution for all involved....we get nothing. Why do we pay them??

'Good-Leaders' emerge in nations with good-Followers/Citizens...

Most/many illegals already do pay-into Taxes/SocSec (they just can't benefit from doing-so).

And, "They hate Christ" [while loving so-called Christian-Fundies]...

Is it Racism, or Nationalism, that foments the backlash-discussed (and is there really much that distinguishes between the-two)?
What 'the People' want, and what their Elite-get, are often two different-things. The anti-Immigration crowd want to selfishly keep others-out, but the 'Establishment' wants them exploitable (locally) in yet-greater numbers. [Soon, a 'happy coincidence-of-Interests' will emerge and settle all-this -- Mexico and C.America will emerge as the primary Recruiting-areas for all future US/PNAC 'military-needs' -- and with promises toward Citizenship they will become the new cannon-fodder for all foreign-exploits]

This isn't about racism. In my area illegal immigrants are taking jobs from legal citizens left and right. They are able to work dirt cheap because they have no overhead. They don't pay taxes, don't carry insurance, don't have licenses... They ARE hurting the country. Painters, contractors, roofers... they're all struggling to find work.

I consider myself to be an open minded person but I am totally against giving illegals anything (jobs, government benefits, drivers licences, etc.) and the reason is because they are here ILLEGALLY. I am all for legal immigration, a country has to control the number of people who come into its country every year otherwise there would be total chaos. Imagine the US opens its borders to anyone that wants to walk, drive, fly, swim in to the country; pretty soon you have a population explosion and no infrastructure to support it.

Plus, there is a lot of corporate propaganda leaking in to the "liberal" media that wants people to believe that giving illegals citizenship is a good thing when what they really care about is diluting the work force to lower wages.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have everyone's name and address in the database if terrorists and criminals are among their numbers? I thought Spitzer was being pragmatic in his initial decision to issue the licenses. I don't even understand why the demagogues and xenophobes opposed this, unless they can no longer reason.

r06ue1,

So if the law was changed so that it wasn't illegal, you'd be in favor of it? I'm unsure what you're driving at.

The US has always relied on a slave labor class. Our corporations offshore to sweatshop/communist China, or developing countries, and ordinary consumers have no problems buying these products. As the dollar falls relative to the Yen, and Boomers are too cheap to pay a decent salary to the X/Y Generation for tradeswork, they'll pay illegal Hispanics a fraction of the salary. I'm told that several sectors of southern states' economies in particular would collapse if it weren't for the supply of cheap illegal labor (agriculture, meat-packing, restuarants, construction, etc.).

This isn't a problem with "illegals" so much as with a latent slave society -- slavery embedded into its fabric. It's obviously widely tolerated by large numbers of unscrupulous employers and politicians who look the other way. If you want someone to blame, blame the employers.

r06ue1,

So if the law was changed so that it wasn't illegal, you'd be in favor of it? I'm unsure what you're driving at.

The US has always relied on a slave labor class. Our corporations offshore to sweatshop/communist China, or developing countries, and ordinary consumers have no problems buying these products. As the dollar falls relative to the Yen, and Boomers are too cheap to pay a decent salary to the X/Y Generation for tradeswork, they'll pay illegal Hispanics a fraction of the salary. I'm told that several sectors of southern states' economies in particular would collapse if it weren't for the supply of cheap illegal labor (agriculture, meat-packing, restuarants, construction, etc.).

This isn't a problem with "illegals" so much as with a latent slave society -- slavery embedded into its fabric. It's obviously widely tolerated by large numbers of unscrupulous employers and politicians who look the other way. If you want someone to blame, blame the employers.

Supply-side economics, supply-side blame.

Now let's be clear about this. The Republicans are a foul group--committing war crimes, dissolving the Constitutional protections against an intrusive and abusive government. They could not, however, get away with it without the collusion of the Democrats, who are the enablers of Republican crimes. Now, in most jurisdictions, the person who drives the get-away car is equally culpable with those who entered the bank with the guns. The Democrats hold culpability equal with the Republicans. Pelosi, Hillary, Harry Reid, Hoyer, the whole lot of them are equally guilty of crimes as are the Republicans. So, they say, let's take away all dignity from the poor. Let's keep the huddled masses where they are. More for the rich, nothing for the rest. And death for those who dare to oppose their quests for power, be it death from bombs dropped from Air Force planes or death from lack of access to health care. At long last, have they no shame?

Caving and shifting to the right is what the Democratic Party does, much as the baker makes break or the ballerina dances.

For a long time the government and business had a cozy thing going by not enforcing immigration laws. The so called "illegals" were not the only illegals. Some of the illegals are american government agents, businesses and individuals who violated our laws. People came here, got jobs, raised families-they are now part of america. Yes, we need to enforce the laws going forward but for those already here- they need to be brought into the legal system of employment with the rights and benefits. That way they will not be undercutting others and they will have employment rights and other rights so they cannot be abused by "AMERICAN" employers. Any other solution such a deportation won't work and will only lead to a human rights crisis that will have no end to its cruelty and to a real hit on the american economy. A great nation could handle this in a righteous way and perserve our system of laws going forward. Instead we will raid homes in the middle of the night, build ridiculous walls and do other things that do not make us a great nation.

Most decadent empires of bygone eras, the waning American Empire being one of them, wholeheartedly embrace any sort of powerlessness possible among its poorest. Whether slaves in ancient Greece, in colonial America, or "illegal immigrants" today -- there's an interesting common thread. Not only are they kept perpetually poor and landless, but -- more importantly: they can't vote.

It's a pipedream for any aspiring tyrant. The people most likely to take issue with you -- they may even be doing important work, contributing to society, etc. -- are totally disenfranchised from the political process.

Hey greatbear you missed: They hate the Constitution.
You have to admire the Repugs. They changed the subject from Iraq to Immigration in a nick of time. The sad thing is how everybody seems to buy the propaganda. How interesting that the Immigration problem has been around for decades, but just before the next election, it turned into a major crisis.

The issue is illegal immigration from a particular kleptocracy to the south. There are obviously too many people profiting from a slave labor force to fix it.